On this episode of The Masterful Coach, Molly Claire shares a discussion she recently had with Leah Davidson on Leah’s podcast, Building Resilience. Today, they will explore how thoughtwork can sometimes lead to self-blame and over-functioning within relationships, the dangers of dismissing genuine issues under the guise of mindset shifting, and the importance of processing emotions rather than suppressing them. Leah will also share insights on the relationship between our thoughts, our nervous system, and our overall emotional health.

So, whether you're a life coach looking to refine your practice or simply curious about the thought patterns that shape our lives, this episode will provide valuable perspectives and practical advice. Tune in as we unravel the complexities of thoughtwork and learn how to apply it wisely and compassionately in both our lives and our coaching practices.

For the full show notes, go to: https://www.mollyclaire.com/blog/navigating-the-double-edged-sword-using-mindset-work-wisely-with-molly-and-leah-davidson

Key Points

05:35 Nervous system affects thoughts, feelings, actions. Avoid weaponizing thought work for safety.

07:43 Using tools improperly can be harmful.

10:55 Shift mindset to avoid blame and criticism.

14:32 Gaslighting, critical thinking, and negative relationship behaviors.

18:00 Shifting responsibility by using thoughtwork.

21:21 Take ownership of actions, don't dismiss others.

22:55 Use mindset work for yourself, not against.

27:49 Questioning ingrained thinking patterns can lead to breakthroughs.

34:35 Examining when you’re using thoughtwork to dismiss and minimize feelings.

36:41 Teaching coaching fundamentals: nervous system, thought work, emotions.

41:06 Stress resilience is important, but reduction matters.

Connect and Resources

Create A Killer Program

This interactive, workshop-style, 6 week Masterclass is what the coaches in this episode did. It teaches you:

• How the right program can fuel your marketing and sales efforts
• 3 key ingredients to effective coaching programs
• How to build a program that will set you apart as an expert

Connect with Molly Claire

Apply for Master Coach Training 2024

Masterful Coach Foundations + The 10K Accelerator Method: Designed for mission-centered Life Coaches who are ready to build a profitable and purposeful business? mollyclaire.com/foundations.

Have a question or thoughts about the podcast? Don’t hesitate to contact Molly at:

• Instagram | Molly Claire Coaching IG
• molly@mollyclaire.com
• Facebook

Molly’s book: The Happy Mom Mindset: mollyclaire.com/book

Please help Molly reach even more like-minded individuals! Simply post a review of the podcast on your favorite platform (or two). It is so appreciated.

Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Amazon Music | RSS

Welcome to the Masterful Coach podcast with Molly Claire. If

you're a coach who's ready to impact more lives, make more money,

and create a life you love, you're in exactly the right

place. Get the support you deserve as a female

entrepreneur, master your coaching skills, grow your

ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal

life. Are you in? Let's get started with your

host, bestselling author and master life and business

coach, Molly Claire.

Hey, Coach, I've got such an important episode for you today.

This is a conversation I had with Leah Davidson on her

podcast. She is a nervous system expert. Her podcast

is Building Resilience. And of course, she teaches

in my Master Coach Training about the nervous system.

In this conversation, Leah wanted to interview me

about how to use mindset work

wisely, and talk about the fact that it can be a double

edged sword. This is such an important episode for you to listen

to so that you can be safe, ethical, and effective when

it comes to using any kind of cognitive approach with your

clients. So I know you're going to love it. Before we

dive in, I want to make sure that you know that right now you can

go to mollyclaire.com and apply

for Master Coach Training and set up a one to one call with

me. I am enrolling now for the fall group.

I have some amazing women in there already. The benefit

to enrolling now is you will get to be a part of some

phenomenal continued education calls this summer.

It is, it's very light. We have two calls a month. It's a way for

you to connect and kind of stay tuned in and connected with your business

and moving your skills forward. And then we go full force.

Dive in in the fall with master coach training. This

program is an absolute must for you if you want to be

safe, effective, and ethical. If you want to design a clear offer

and have a great program for your client that works. And if you

really want to understand how mindset work, emotion work

and understanding of the nervous system and effective action

strategies work together. This training

is, I can say with 100% confidence,

the very best thing I have ever offered in the last

ten years in my business. It's a magical space, and I would love to have

you go to Mollyclaire.com, check it out, and I hope to talk

with you on a one to one call soon. All right, coaches, get

ready. We've got some good stuff here as I'm chatting with Leah

Davidson. Welcome, Molly, to the Building Resilience

podcast. I am so happy to have you here, and if

you could just take just a couple of minutes to introduce

yourself in your own words to the audience. That would be

great. Sure. I'm so excited to be here.

So I am- my name is Molly Claire. I have

three kids. I'm a single mom to three kids, two grown kids, and I

just adore all of them. I am founder of

The Masterful Coach Collective and that is my

business. And the main thing that I do is help coaches to be

able to be more effective in implementing change with their clients.

So I offer a holistic Master Coach Training

where of course Leah contributes as well, teaching

part about the nervous system. And so I offer

coaches this holistic Master Coach Training so they're fully equipped to really

serve their clients well. And then I also have

another program to help coaches actually create their

coaching program. So those are kind of highlights of me business wise, but

I love what I do. I love serving coaches. I'm a huge believer

in the power of phenomenal, high

quality, safe coaching and helping people to

change their lives. So awesome. Well, I'm excited to have you

here for multiple reasons. And I will say that even though

you work primarily with coaches, if you're listening and you're

not a coach, that's okay, because what we're going to be talking about today is

really relevant across the board. But definitely Molly has

had a huge role in my development as a

coach, as I was in multiple of your programs and

masterminds. And I just learned so much from you. And yes, I

do- I'm so excited and honored that I get to teach

in your coaching certification about the nervous system. So

that's been fun too. But I wanted to talk today

about a topic that I actually heard you talking about in another group

that I was in. We're talking about the idea of

thoughtwork, or mindset work, however you want to call it. I refer to it

both. And I know that people who listen to the podcast have heard me over

the years, introduced them to something called The Model, which is

really a variation of cognitive behavioral therapy and there's lots

of different ways to look at it, but it is the idea

that your thoughts create your feelings, your feelings create

your push, your actions and then your

actions as well, where everything comes together with your results.

And I believe that. I am a huge

advocate of mindset work and thought work.

And for me, the nervous system just fits beautifully in.

I teach that the nervous system comes before the thought that when

you have that circumstance, you're confronted. It's an automatic thing that

your nervous system is assigning safety or danger, it

gets into a state, and the state is what flavors your thought, your

feelings, your actions, and so forth. So that's sort of where I come from.

But what I was really interested when you were teaching is

this idea that while thought work is so beneficial for many of

us, many of us also use it against

ourselves, and it can also be used

against other people in our lives and saying,

like, we're deliberately going out there to harm people, I think that

sometimes it is innocently done. Also

have to say that sometimes thought work and mindset work

can come from more of a manipulative standpoint. I don't know if

that's too strong of a word, but that has been my experience as

well. So I was like, we need to talk about this. We need to

talk about the- how not to weaponize it, how

to make sure that you're using thoughtwork

in a safe way and not having it

used against you. So that's really what I wanted to bring to the table to

have a conversation about today. Yes. I mean, and, and

so, you know, I know those of you listening, for many of you, this idea

of thought work or mindset work may be new or foreign concept. But

as we talk about this, I'm planning to make it relevant for all of

you. Right. No matter your level of understanding, because it is really powerful.

The idea of understanding the thought patterns we have, the way we

view the world, our frameworks, the way we think about our life, creates

our experience of life. And it's a super powerful tool

and one that I've taught up close and personal, you know, which we can get

into and speak to. And I think, you know, what, what

you're bringing up, Leah, is so relevant because

as I have worked to teach other

coaches the thoughtwork model and how to use it with their

clients, I've seen where it's incredibly

powerful in a positive way and ways that it is

incredibly detrimental sometimes. Right.

And it's kind of like, sometimes what I've seen is, is sort of

this evolution, if we want to call it that. Like, you know, it's

something that, that starts out as something very helpful and

powerful, and then all of a sudden, we start using

something that was for us against ourselves in this new

way. And so I think what I just, you know, what I want to really

highlight and bring out here as we're talking about thought work, mindset

work, you know, changing beliefs, all of these things,

it is a tool, just like a jackhammer is

a tool that is super powerful and can

be really useful and can accomplish incredible things.

And if you're using a jackhammer on, you know, like,

I wish I had a really great analogy for it, but I'm not a

construction worker. I don't have something on the tip of my tongue. But when you

think about a jackhammer, a jackhammer could do a lot of damage under

circumstances where it should not be used. Right. And I think it's the same

thing. Thought work, mindset work, you know, this cognitive approach,

super powerful, and just, you got to use it in the right

ways. Right, right. Yeah, no, I love that analogy. I was

just, you know, I wish I had the different tools, too, but I was thinking

of, like, you know, a jackhammer, instead of, like, having

something where you need, like, a delicate little pick, instead you're coming along

with this. Jack and just, like, destroy everything.

That's right. Yeah. What you were trying to fix. That's right. So all

tools have their place. All tools. And that's. That's where I

think, you know, I do love. I've seen the power of being able

to evaluate and become aware of my own thoughts

and be able to ask myself if these thoughts are serving me, if

there's different ways to use my different ways to think of things.

So I have a different perspective to serve me better, to help make shifts.

Those have been really, really helpful, but I know that it can work

against you. So let's talk about some of the different ways that

you have seen thoughtwork has been either used against

yourself or even used against other people. So

I think that, you know, there, there are so many things

we could talk about. So I'll try to highlight just a few. And,

of course, you know, if there are other areas you want me to go into,

I will, but let's just talk about relationships. Okay. So, one

of the things, when I first became a coach and I learned the cognitive

approach and I was doing it, I also started training other coaches in that

methodology. Right. So I was doing contract work initially for the life coach. Well, I

was, like, in the trenches of teaching it. And so let's take

this idea that our thoughts create our feelings, and our feelings

drive our actions. Okay? So if this is all we're looking

at, and let's imagine that I'm

thinking, you know, about my

partner, "He's so lazy." Okay. And every time I think

he's so lazy, I feel frustrated, and then I, you

know, behave in a negative way toward him. Okay. So

it seems like it would probably be nice to know if you're walking

around all the time thinking he's so lazy and what you're creating within

that for yourself and in the relationship. And so you can see that

it might be beneficial to make space to understand that and

make a shift potentially in how you're showing up in that partnership

and how you're viewing them. Right. But then

where we get into this, like, danger zone with it is if we

see that we're having this thought, "he's so lazy" and

that we're, that is creating a feeling. And then we're- it's driving

this action that is not helpful. Where we now start criticizing

ourselves for the ways we're thinking

and feeling, being frustrated with ourselves and really

just blaming ourselves for the entire situation. So it's

like we go from blaming this other person for how we feel to now

I'm blaming myself, which is also not helpful, useful

at all, and detrimental.

Because now, you know, not only is there erosion in the

partnership relationship, but now I'm further eroding my

relationship with myself. Right. There's a lot more to it

with relationship. And I actually think we could even stay, you know,

potentially on that and talk about the different ways. But that's just one way to

highlight how it can move over to not so helpful.

Yeah. Where you turn around and start blaming yourself and start feeling

bad. And I've seen that with myself and with clients,

too, where we talk about your quote, unquote, using the model

against yourself, like you're using what you've learned

and turning it around and taking all this

blame and responsibility. I should be, I'm creating my own mess.

I'm creating this because of my thoughts. Right, right,

right. So it's like, it goes from taking, like,

a useful way is taking ownership of what's happening by

awareness. Right. Which, like, it's what you speak to also understanding your

nervous system. Right. And what's going on. There's so much more to it at a

surface level. And here's what I'll say. I do think it's actually

useful to see those surface level thoughts that you may be having. Like, he's so

lazy and say, okay, like, even at a surface level, what

are some ways that I could view this or approach this in a way that

might be more supportive of me and of them. Right. And so I

do think there's that. And there's so much more behind the scenes. Right. Like, where

in the relationship are there emotional needs that aren't being met?

Where is there disconnection? Where is there hurt that needs to heal? Where is what's

going on with his nervous system and your nervous system and all of that. So.

So it's very complex, but even at a surface level, yes. I

think it's helpful to notice even some of those little thoughts that are, that are

creating something not so helpful. And I think when we

can look at that more from a standpoint of curiosity

and compassion and looking towards solutions, it can be helpful.

And when we instead stay in this place of believing, "Well, someone has to be

to blame for this. So if I can't blame him, his laziness, well,

then I'll blame me, because I should be thinking differently, I should be feeling differently.

I shouldn't be doing this..." Which really just puts us in a new negative spin

cycle of creating something not so positive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I love that. And it really speaks

to the extremes that we go. Sort of the black and white that has to

be one person, the other. And I always say to people, whenever you

find yourself doing the black and white thinking, you're

caught in something with your nervous system. You're in a state

of arousal whenever it's so black and white, because

it's. Not just desperate to calm it down. Right. Like, okay, well,

like blaming, like, having an answer about this somewhere, something

to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So not helpful. Yeah. And,

you know, the other thing that I'll take it to, because

I know one thing that we've talked about is

gaslighting, which is, like, you know, a pretty big

word and an appropriate word to use in many situations, and it's

becoming more popular to hear about it and understand it, but I think it's

worth talking about. And so it's kind of like, so let's imagine,

let's take, you know, the same general scenario

where you're talking about a relationship,

and, and let's say that maybe one person

has some concerns about the other partner's

behaviors in the relationship, the way they're treating you.

And let's say you become aware of some

thoughts you have about the relationship that you

might categorize as, like, I'm using air quotes, negative.

Right.And so, so I think that

sometimes, let's imagine that

we notice some ways of thinking about our partner that we see

maybe we're being a little more critical of them than we

would like to be. Okay. And then

what you can do with that for you personally, is kind

of go to a place of trying to flip the

thoughts, switch the thoughts to create something

more positive and almost make excuses for

what you're seeing in that partner, because sometimes it's

just easier to do that and just try to move to the

positive and avoid the pain or the

fear of actually addressing something

going on. Right. So then it's like, if we fall into

this idea of, because I've heard this many times, and I know you

have, too, it's like, well, if I just change

me, then the whole relationship will change. And here's what I'll

say. I agree that changing one

person shifts the dynamic. And I don't at all

buy into this idea that a relationship only takes

one person, because it doesn't. A relationship is

two people. And so I know I'm getting off on a little bit of a

side note there, but it's very relevant because I think

that when in a relationship someone is over-functioning

in the relationship right where they are. And again, like, I'm sure you're going

to bring the nervous system over functioning. Yeah, that's exactly.

Nervous over functioning. "I'm trying to fix this relationship. If I just change my

thoughts, if I just change everything about me, it'll fix me, it'll fix this

relationship." And the problem is we then start using thoughtwork

as a way to minimize and dismiss

things going on in the relationship that aren't okay with us,

and we end up, in a sense, kind of gaslighting

ourselves to say, whatever's going on here isn't really

happening. I'm overreacting. I need to change my view of this.

So hopefully that's helpful and clear as to what I

mean by that, because I see aware of thoughtwork, not

aware of thoughtwork. Coaches, not coaches. I see people, especially

in relationships, that are not necessarily

healthy, not balanced, where you have one person over-functioning,

where they use this methodology

as a way of just kind of making excuses

for someone else in the relationship and end up staying caught in something

that isn't positive for them. Or making, you

know, on the flip side, using it a way to make the other person take

responsibility for maybe something you've done. And I'll give, like, just a funny

example, like, when I was first learning about, you know, thought

work and, and using it more in my life, there was always, like, a joke

in our house, like, well, "that's just a thought. That's just a thought." And

just joking, like, with my kids, but

I can see how it can get there. So, say one of my kids would

come in late from curfew or

something that they had, and I would say something. They'd be like, well, mom, that's

just a thought. It was in a joking way, but

it could also be in a not joking way of somebody like,

I'm doing something and I may call you on it

and the other person will be like, well, that's just your thought.

Like, you know, if you choose to think that, it's also kind

of how I feel when, and this is a little side note, when

people are apologizing or they just say things

to you like, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry

that that's your interpretation. I'm sorry. To me, that's very,

very dismissive. It sort of ends up being like,

you're in charge, and I get, I preach that, too.

You are in charge of all your emotions and all your thoughts,

but that does not give somebody license to

go around and misuse that and to

use it in the way that is going to serve them

and make me feel. And that's the whole point of gaslighting,

like, make me feel like I'm crazy. Did

that not just happen? Did we not just agree upon this? Is that just

not clearly there? And all of a sudden I'm like, well, that's just

your thought. That's right. "Never had that conversation. I'm sorry that was

your understanding". And I think that that can get played a lot

when people have various levels of understanding how

thoughts. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Because

so think about this idea that if I'm wanting

to improve a relationship or life, I keep hitting on

this one, this one aspect, just because I think sometimes then it can be easier

to see the different, like, nuances of it, right. But hopefully

my awareness of my

own thoughts also creates awareness of my feelings and an

opportunity for me to actually self reflect.

Right. And in relationship

and in self reflection, there has to be space

for the other person's wants, desires,

perspectives, thoughts and feelings as also validation.

Not that one person's perspective is absolute

or right, but, but perspectives are just that, and they're

valid. There's validity in them, and they all need to be

considered. And so it's kind of like if I'm using

thoughtwork in a healthy way, then I'm

actually going to invite awareness and reflection. And if I

am too afraid to reflect, if I am too afraid of my

feelings, then I'm going to use it in a way to

abdicate responsibility, potentially for my harmful actions

because my actions become someone else's circumstance. That's right.

Right. And so if I have behaviors that are, you know,

unkind, even abusive, detrimental, whatever it

is, that's a circumstance that I'm creating. And I probably ought to be

aware of what I'm creating. And so it's very reckless for

me to say, "Oh, well, my thoughts and feelings and actions and, you know, what

I create is my thing. And if you have thoughts or feelings about it, well,

you better go take care of that. That's not on me." And so

it's a fine line, right? Because it is true that each of us can

take ownership of our experience, and it is really

a, I'm going to call it like a very

immature use of the model

to dismiss others, to abdicate responsibility

for ourselves rather than being open to being vulnerable and

making space for sifting through things. And I just have to say, like,

one more thing about this. I have seen this

in coaching communities, I have seen this in

businesses where where it's almost like,

well, I'll give you a specific example where I was working

within an organization and someone is making a complaint about

something where they have valid concerns, valid

complaints, and then it comes back to a criticism

of the way they're thinking about it. Yes.

Right. Like, why are you

choosing to be such a victim in

this situation? It's like, wait just a minute. Right?

Yeah. And so I think the thing is, is thought work and

mindset work is something we're supposed to use

for ourselves, right? Something we're not, we're not supposed to use

it against ourselves, right? We're supposed to use it for ourselves.

And we need to let go of believing that it's our job to tell other

people what to do with their thoughts or feelings or dismiss them.So

I just think it's something to be aware of because I think it can be

very confusing when there's someone that we perceive as in an

authority position, which oftentimes, like in business, when we're looking

to mentors and teachers, we see them in that position. And if they're

trying to help us to be more effective in the way we think and we're

frustrated or upset about something and they're putting it back on us,

needing to change the way we're thinking, it can be like, "Oh, really?

Maybe I am all wrong about this." Right? Right.

Yeah. And what I also love about the nervous system

and integrating that into thoughtwork, I don't really think

that it's wise to try to separate them. Is that when you

understand the nervous system, when somebody makes a comment to you, like, why are you

choosing to think that? It's sort of like, well, I'm

not choosing based on random

things. Our choices are driven

because of the flavor of the state of our nervous system.

So our nervous system is neurocepting and picking up things of

danger. And maybe I am going to, quote unquote, choose to

think a certain way, but it's not based on, like, a

pre thought decision that this is going to be. I'm a victim

and this is based on, this is what's coming up for me

physiologically, the state that I can find. So it

is a lot more, a lot more layered than just why are you

choosing to think that? So whenever I hear people say, you choose your

thoughts, my answer is always kinda,

yeah, yeah. Okay, so,

so for the coaches that are listening, here's, like, a pro tip on this, because,

you know, I think there are so many questions that we hear a lot

that it's like, people think, "Oh, this is a great question." People are like,

that's a terrible question. And what I'll say is, it's just a

question that when nuanced and used in the right way, can be

super helpful. Right. Because if, if, for an example, you're a

coach and you've seen it to be powerful, to say, "why are you choosing to

think that?", which I have found it to be useful at times. Right.

Then you may use it, and it can often be interpreted

as, you shouldn't be choosing to

think that way. You're wrong in choosing to think that.

And so what I think is interesting is we can take

a question like that and we can actually

use it with so much curiosity. Right. So,

for example, like, okay, your brain is going

to this way of thinking. Why is

it, why are you choosing,

why is your brain choosing to think that?

And what I think is interesting, it can open up so many things and

realize, well, when I do that, it protects

me. It seems to eliminate fear. Well, I'm

choosing that because of this imprint right on my nervous

system. So I think that, I think that just

for any of you as coaches, it's like the little nugget for coaches

questions. Like, do you know that's just a thought?

Why are you choosing to think that way? These kind of questions

that can seem really powerful

and really terrible sometimes think about how you

can use them in a much more curious way.

Yes. Because they're super helpful questions. Yeah. Unless they're done

poorly. Exactly. Yeah. I think that goes to if

you're doing your own sort of coaching, your own asking

yourself questions like, why am I choosing to think this way? What I

know this is just also having it with curiosity,

like, why am. I choosing to think, yeah,

yeah. What about this is going and I

always turn to what's going on with my nervous system. Okay. I am

hyper activated right now. Oh. That's why

I'm choosing to think this work. Every way I'm going to choose to think

when I'm in this hyper aroused state is going to be nuanced in

this way. So having. I love that with the curiosity.

And sometimes also, we know that just the question can

be, like, a reminder that it is a choice. Right. And so sometimes it

is just like, why are you choosing to think that? And you're like, oh, my

gosh, I didn't even realize that I was. And then it almost, it's funny

how sometimes it can just flip something and then you just don't ever think that

way again. Right. Yeah. So it can be useful in that way and in other

ways. It's that curiosity. So, yeah, so many,

I've had it where a coach asked me, why are you choosing to think that

way? And what happened to me is it did sort of break me out of

the pattern. And I was like, you know, you're right. I actually don't think I'm

choosing this. I think this is just, like, a memorized way. I've just always

thought this was a way that I was supposed to think,

and I started to think about it because this is what I was

taught, or this is what I picked up. But when I sort of stopped and

looked at it, I'm like, I don't actually think that way. It's just sort

of pre programmed in my mind to think that way.

And I've never stopped to question it until the coach said to me, why are

you choosing to think that way? Yeah, yeah. It's such a good example.

Yeah. Well, and Leah. Okay, so this is what that made me think of, because

I definitely, like, you know, when I work with my clients, with their skills

and being just, like, more effective, even just in the thoughtwork space,

it is important to notice that we can't, we have these, like, go-to thought

patterns. Right. That are just programmed in. And

this is slightly different, but I want to relate this back

to this idea of using thoughtwork in a

detrimental way, and I'll tell you that, so for me

personally, I'm going to share a book that, I mean,

this book, it's probably the top of my list for

books that have impacted me. It's called Running On

Empty. And I told you to get it, didn't I? You told

me. And I have to say it was one of the

books that made me have, like,

aha. Moments left, right, and center and really have

an explanation of. Of my nervous system,

my past, my thoughts. Yes. Go on. Talk about.

My advanced certified coaches. We study that book. My master

coaches are going to be studying that book. And by the way, if the author,

Jonas Webb, happens to be listening to this, I've been trying to

get her on my podcast, and so I'm like, maybe I'll just put the feelers

out if you're listening. If anyone knows her, I want to interview her.

Yeah, but, so, this book, as you know, Leah, this book is about

overcoming childhood emotional neglect, which a lot of us

don't recognize is there because it's so invisible

and just. And especially with my situation. Like, I see where I'm like, oh, my

gosh, I would have never said that I had this, but. And then I'm like,

oh, my gosh, I do. Yes. And so, but here's what I'll say

about this. So, one of the things that I learned in this book is

that if a child has emotions coming up, they

have emotional needs. It's almost like you can visualize

these emotions coming up and coming out, like, looking for

who's here to receive these feelings or help me with these.

Right. So let's imagine, like, I'm there as a child.

Feelings are coming up. I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling scared, and then I'm kind

of, like, searching for someone to lean on to help me with these.

And if there's nobody there, then what I do is

I turn these feelings back on myself

and start trying to shut them

down, trying to dismiss them, minimize

them, stomp them out. And so, of

course, when I found the model

that says my thoughts create my feelings,

then this became a new way of changing and

shutting down my thoughts and feelings to cope with things.

So, yes, I used it in healthy ways, but it's almost like I was

wired so early to turn things on myself,

to minimize myself, minimize my thoughts, minimize my feelings,

gaslight myself and say, like, this isn't really happening,

you know? And so, so I think that's important to notice,

as well, the way we will use

the model and thought work is probably very much related

to what our experience has been and what's natural and pattern for

us. Exactly. Yeah. And these patterns

are not at a conscious level. What

I loved about the book is I had the same

experience where my experience was not one where I would have

recognized it wasn't, like, this blatant, "Oh, yeah, I knew this happened". But as

I was reading it and learning it, I'm like, I didn't

realize this makes sense. These are the patterns

that I have sort of running underneath

everything. And then it was

a sense of compassion for myself as opposed to

the feeling of, like, "Oh, I have to fix my

thoughts." I have to change it. It was the sense of tremendous compassion

for brilliant little Leah, as I call her, who just

adapted in ways. Oh, my gosh. And

had these patterns that are, you know,

served me well for periods of time because it was my

survival, but then have just become ways that I no longer

question. And like I said, when I started questioning some

things, I just realized, like, no, it's not a choice. I'm just

doing it because this is how I, I learned this.

Yes, this is my programming, and now I'm aware of

it. Now I can start questioning, do I still want to have

this programming and where is it coming from? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It really is a great book. I mean, and going

back to, you know, you saying, like, you wouldn't have ever said that

you had it. Like, you know, I had a mom who

loved and adored all of us, and she really

sacrificed, honestly, her wellbeing and health just to make sure we had food

on the table. And so how guilty did

I feel? Even like, asserting

that I experienced emotional neglect. Right.

But when. When someone's not home, when someone's out working to pay the

bills, there's nobody there. So it's kind of like,

of course it happens. So anyway, I just bring that up because I

think we can make space for seeing how things in our life

impacted us without, I'm, like, trying to think of how to articulate

this. It's nothing against, you know, my mom or

my parents or anything. It just is part of the reality of my

experience. And when I can look at it and I can understand

how I really need to

shift my relationship with my own feelings in order to

be healthier. It's like, it's just the greatest gift. So,

yeah, awesome. Any other ways that we are

using this thoughtwork mindset, work model against

ourselves? Oh, my. How much time do we have? Maybe we'll

do. I know. There's so much. We have part 234567,

right? We're not a whole series, but yeah, I will say

that if you are using thoughtwork as a new way to

blame yourself, if you are using it to

dismiss or minimize your own feelings,

which I think we do a lot. And, you know, in talking

about how other people do that sometimes,

like, totally unintended as well.

Right. It's kind of like, because I think we're kind of, a lot of

us are uncomfortable with feelings or someone else having feelings. And

so I think sometimes when people use things like, you know, mindset or

ways of thinking or thinking positive that feel very dismissive

to people, it's because they're really trying to shut down their feelings that they're having.

Right, right. So, anyway. But, yes, anytime that we

are trying to manipulate our ways of

thinking to just get out of a way of feeling, it's not

really that helpful. Right. I think over time, it actually

creates a pattern of us closing off our emotions,

which is not healthy for us or helpful will actually keep us

very stuck in our life. That's right. And, I mean, it

sends the message, you know, always pulling it to the nervous system. It sends the

message that these emotions are dangerous and that we can't have

them. So we keep suppressing them, which we see can lead

to not just stuckness emotionally, but stuckness

even physically. It can lead to so many manifestations

of chronic pain. And chronic illnesses are things that we've touched on in the

podcast that these suppressed and repressed

emotions, if we are, they're going

somewhere. That's right. They need to come out at some

point. And it doesn't serve

us to try to manipulate or change our thoughts,

to bypass being able to have the experience of the

emotions we're better off to, to learn

how to sit with the discomfort of the emotions that

come along with many of our thoughts and many of our

experiences. Yeah, I mean, just yesterday, I

was teaching about kind of these four fundamental

pieces of effective coaching. Right. Where we've got to understand the nervous system.

Of course, we've got to have advanced, like, nuanced,

effective thought work. We've got to have emotion

processing and modalities to do it, and effective

actions. And when we were talking about the emotion piece, it's

like, the thing is that

if we have this idea, you know, thoughts create

our feelings, feelings drive actions, and actions create results. Well,

then, what do I need to think in order to fix the feeling? I think

it's about fixing the feeling. The feelings are not a problem. No,

the feeling isn't a problem, problem at all. And

so, if you've fallen into this, please just stop believing

your feelings are a problem to be fixed, that your feelings

are in the way. Your feelings are the way your

feelings matter, your feelings need to be attended

to. And when we can make space to

actually care about ourselves, that we're having a feeling and we

can journal about it, attend to it, verbally, process it,

cry. Right, that crying. With activating the

parasympathetic nervous system, we're. Tying this

all about the nervous system. Yeah. Right. Like, when we

can do that. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's what

moves us. Right? You move the emotion, and it moves you, and

you can then sometimes, like, doing that with the

emotion, it clears the cognition. Right. It

brings clarity with just so many things.

And so that's another way if you're using mindset work or thought

work, to believe it is the solution to fixing your

feelings, that's a little bit of a red flag, because

your feelings matter, too, right? Not just the thoughts.

Like, make a little bit of space for them. And actually, you know, more

modern neuroscience is really pulling at the idea that it's

bi-directional, that our feelings influence our thoughts. Our

thoughts influence our feelings. It's not as linear

as, you know, sometimes we think it is. Yes.

So your feelings are giving you lots of

information. I say your feelings are like the dashboard, the light on

your car. It's letting you know, engine needs servicing, you need

gas. Like, you need to be listening to those. And if you shut

that down, then you are missing valuable

information that really impacts your life.

Yes. And you know what? I will just say this like

anyone that is, I really do

think that using thoughtwork

as I will say this, I'm

like trying to make this as clear as possible,

because I really do think that it's important.

I've been in a place where I was desperately trying to

find a good enough thought work coach

to help me change a

situation in my life that was not

positive for me. It was very detrimental for me. And I just kept

thinking, "Okay, I've got to get a handle on my thoughts. Who can help

me clean up my thinking? Who can help me clean up my thinking?" And thank

goodness I did reach out to a phenomenal thoughtwork

coach. It was, you know her, Krista St. Germain. And what we

identified was, guess what? I can't out

think my nervous system. I can't do enough thought

work. That's right. To fix a trauma

response. I can't do enough. I cannot twist my

thoughts in, like, my brain in a pretzel enough

to be able to solve what my body

and my emotions were trying to tell me.

That's right. And so if you're always in this battle

of, you know, nervous system activation, like, body

is elevated, emotions are elevated, and you're trying desperately to use

cognition to fix it, stop trying to use the cognition, drop

the model, forget about your brain, and

find help in supporting your nervous system

and listening to what's going on, because that is going to give you

clarity to make decisions in your life. And I also think it's

really tied to, I did a couple episodes a while back

just called stress reduction and stress resilience, and I talked

about how we do have to be aware. Sometimes we talk so much about

resilience and how to think things differently and perspectives, and I'm like, it's

amazing. But sometimes it is the reduction we need

to actually change something in our life. So if you're in a bad

relationship, yeah, you can think, you know, different thoughts, and how can I think

differently? How can I serve myself? How can I empower myself? But

sometimes when you change your partner and when

you change the relationship altogether, it

changes everything. You don't have to try to do all the thoughtwork and turn your

life into a pretzel. Exactly. And I give the example

on those podcasts where I say it's like when we're shopping for travel, because

I love travel. If I get a situation where

I'm going to go buy a ticket, and the first ticket that I come up,

you know, it leaves at 04:00 a.m. And there's eight different connections, and it takes

me 36 hours to get there. And I'm only allowed hand

luggage. I mean, I guess I could

try to work. How bad do I want it? I really want to be there.

I could do that. Or I could be like, I need

to search for a direct flight that leaves at 09:00 a.m.

That's only 6 hours. That allows me to have luggage. Oh, look at that. There's

one there. That's the flight I need to buy. That's right. And

instead, so many times respect spending, like, well, you know, I only

have to take the bus between this terminal and that terminal. And then once I

take the train and, yeah, maybe,

but at the end, you're probably going to be completely exhausted and not enjoy your

trip. Sometimes we need to back up and we have to look at things

and is there a different ticket that I need to buy?

And is that what I need to be doing, my focus on? So I think

there has to be both. And sometimes the stress resilience piece is the

thought work piece. And sometimes, you know, the

stress reduction is paying attention to what your nervous system is

telling you and also looking at the circumstances in your

life that some things are very, very

different when you are with different people. And both of us

have experienced that. Different marriages, different lives.

And you can say, well, it's because you thought differently about the person

and because I'm married to different people.

Yeah, I think it becomes a problem. Right. Always think everyone else

and everything around us is the problem, and we're, like, powerless to our

circumstances, but let's not go to the other extreme and just, like, believe

that there is no validity in, like, the facts

of circumstances and situations in our lives either. So. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, well, this was amazing. We could

go on. Thank you so much for- and again, I hope

people got the message. Neither of us are saying that thoughtwork

doesn't have such an important role. Oh, it's

tremendous. Yeah. It can change lives. I know. It has

changed my life, my perspective. I continue using it

personally with my clients, teaching about it, but

just knowing that there is the other side and what to look out

for so that we aren't using it against us. And

thank you for, for bringing up so many examples and for being

here. For people who want to know more about you, where can they

find you and what to you are up to.

Yeah. Okay. So if you're a coach, definitely check out

The Masterful Coach podcast. I talk about

coaching, skill, life, and business. You can go to

mollyclaire.com, where you can find information about the

Masterful Coach Collective and the offerings.

Specifically, I am enrolling for

Holistic Master Coach training. This is

like my work, my heart, my everything.

It is really where I'm helping you as a coach to be able to

implement effective change with your clients. And we study

advanced and nuanced thought work. We study emotion

focused modalities. Leah teaches some classes

on the nervous system, and then we also talk about

affection, action focused strategies that really work. And we

cover several different niches. It's very comprehensive. And, and what I'll

say about it is that program is really

designed to be very supportive of the coaches in there,

supportive of their nervous system, and really create an environment

where you are able to, to really learn what you need to, to be

a phenomenal coach. So I could go on and on, but I won't. But that's

where you can find it. That's awesome. I'm rah, rah, rah. I love

that. I love being a part of it. I love sharing about the nervous

system, giving people a taste of the nervous system. And then I always say,

well, if you love the nervous system and you want to know more, then come

over to me and we can go much deeper in the nervous system.

But I think it's wonderful what you're putting out in the world. So thank

you. And thank you for being on today, and

we will see you next time. Thanks for

listening to the Masterful coach podcast. Are you ready to

build your amazing business with Molly as your coach coach? Check

out www.mollyclaire.com to

find out about Masterful Coach foundations and the 10k

Accelerator Method. It's the ultimate support for you as a

coach, building your ideal life and business.