Shownotes
This episode of State of the Second brings on Jake from TN Tactical, a budget-focused firearms YouTuber from East Tennessee, to talk through the ATF's private sales final rule and what it could mean for everyday gun owners and small creators. Jake started his channel in August 2021 to make content that's about half entertainment and half information, built around budget-friendly firearms, optics, red dots, and lasers for people who need to stretch a dollar. He's known for drop tests and torture tests on budget gear, and the channel has grown from around 800 subscribers when host John first met him to nearly 10,000. John and Kaylee tie that mission to where the country is economically and to East Tennessee specifically, a hard-working, mostly agrarian and manufacturing region where money is tight and a first-time gun owner has to buy everything at once.
The core of the conversation is the private sales final rule and how vague it is. Jake, who openly says he doesn't have an FFL and just enjoys making gun content, worries that buying a gun, reviewing it, then reselling it at a loss could now be treated as a problem because the rule turns on intent to make a profit, which is subjective. The hosts walk through how this targets sellers and not buyers, how it could affect widows inheriting a collection, people who get an unwanted gift, gun buybacks, and anyone who buys a gun and decides they don't like how it shoots. Kaylee frames it as an attempt to make firearms a liability instead of an asset, points to firearms appreciating in value like pre-86 machine guns and old SKS rifles, and argues the vagueness is intentional so the government can keep taking more.
GOA's position is direct: they have publicly declared they will file suit and seek an injunction. Kaylee makes the case for low-cost membership, $25 or $20 with a discount code, and stresses that sending an email to a legislator is free and open even to non-members. The episode also covers the push to force creators and casual sellers into getting an FFL, the move to eliminate home-based FFLs in favor of brick-and-mortar businesses, and the Fourth Amendment concerns that come with FFL inspections and bound-book recordkeeping. They close by plugging GOALS, the Gun Owners Advocacy and Leadership Summit, happening August 17th and 18th in Knoxville, Tennessee, where Jake was the third person to request media access.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What is the ATF's private sales final rule and why do gun owners say it's so vague?
The rule targets people who sell firearms privately, turning on whether the seller intended to make a profit. Critics on the episode argue that intent standard is subjective by design, so the government can keep expanding what counts as needing a license.
How could the rule affect small firearms YouTubers who buy, review, and resell guns?
A creator like Jake, who has no FFL, worries that buying a gun, reviewing it, then reselling it at a loss could be treated as a violation because the rule hinges on intent to profit. The fear is that routine review-and-resell content gets read as unlicensed dealing.
Does the private sales rule target buyers or sellers?
It targets sellers, not buyers. The hosts and Jake note this is why widows inheriting a collection, people who got an unwanted gift, and anyone who decides they don't like a gun could all be swept in.
How does the rule's focus on 'intent to make a profit' create a legal gray area?
Because intent is subjective, the same private sale could be judged a violation or not depending on interpretation. Jake calls the whole rule a question of intention, and Kaylee argues the vagueness is deliberate so the government can keep taking more.
What is Gun Owners of America doing to fight the private sales final rule?
Gun Owners of America has publicly declared it will file suit and seek an injunction against the rule. The hosts also stress that contacting a legislator is free and open even to people who aren't members.
How much does a GOA membership cost and can you advocate without being a member?
Membership is low-cost at $25, or $20 with a discount code. You don't have to be a member to act, since sending an email to a legislator is free and open to anyone.
What is GOALS and when and where is it being held?
GOALS is GOA's Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit, held August 17th and 18th in Knoxville, Tennessee. Jake was the third person to request media access for the event.
Why does Jake from TN Tactical focus on budget-friendly firearms and gear?
Jake built TN Tactical around affordable firearms, optics, red dots, and lasers to serve people stretching a dollar, including his hard-working East Tennessee audience. He's known for drop tests and torture tests that show whether budget gear holds up.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and meet Jake from TN Tactical
- 00:16 — How the channel started in August 2021
- 01:51 — Drop tests and budget gear reviews
- 02:43 — From 800 to almost 10,000 subscribers
- 04:45 — Serving the budget and East Tennessee audience
- 08:21 — GOALS summit and jumping on early
- 10:46 — Low-cost GOA membership and free advocacy
- 16:14 — The private sales final rule explained
- 18:18 — Vague rules and GOA's lawsuit
- 26:46 — Widows, gifts, and unintended sellers
- 34:00 — Turning gun owners into felons
- 39:20 — Firearms as a liability versus an asset
- 40:45 — Forcing FFLs and ending home-based shops
- 47:08 — Where to find Jake and wrap-up
About the guest
Jake runs TN Tactical, a YouTube channel he started in August 2021 to make engaging, informative content focused on budget-friendly firearms, optics, red dots, and lasers. He's known for drop tests and torture tests on budget gear, and the channel has grown from around 800 subscribers to nearly 10,000. He's from East Tennessee and treats the channel as a hobby that is also business first. He does not have an FFL. He was the third person to request media access for GOA's GOALS summit.
Key quotes
"The main focus though has always been budget friendly firearms, budget friendly optics, red dots, lasers, all that good stuff that people can afford." — Jake
"I'm a youtuber without an FFL and I just enjoy making gun content." — Jake
"The whole final rule about private sale is about the intention, which is very subjective." — Jake
"With everything that the government does, they intentionally make it as vague as possible." — Kaylee
"We are nothing without our members. We are a grassroots gun lobby." — Kaylee
"This all targets the seller. It doesn't really target the buyers." — Jake
"In my opinion, this is the ATF's attempt to make firearms a liability versus an asset." — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to the Gun Owners of America podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Jake from TN Tactical.
Speaker B:Jake, how are you today?
Speaker C:Hey, thank you.
Speaker C:Feel blessed to be here.
Speaker B:We are so grateful that you are here.
Speaker B:Let's go ahead and start with the backstory, how you got started into your YouTube channel, all that other fun stuff.
Speaker C: ted my channel back in August: Speaker C:Kind of like, you know, 50% entertainment, 50% information as well.
Speaker C:And the goal of my channel was to basically bring good, solid information on budget, sort of like budget tier items that people in my area would probably be interested in.
Speaker C:I see a lot of gun content out there that's like, you know, high tier, you know, fast paced operator kind of stuff that's really expensive.
Speaker C:And I feel like there was sort of a lack of budget friendly content that was still high quality.
Speaker C:So I've made a couple YouTube channels before and have gotten a pretty good amount of experience editing.
Speaker C:So I took that and sort of made like a budget version of like Grand Thumb and Honest Outlaw.
Speaker C:Like essentially that's why I do like cinema intros and stuff at the beginning of my videos because I really enjoy that.
Speaker C:But I also try to pull off information like some of these other guys do that, you know, they've been around a lot longer than I have.
Speaker C:The main focus though has always been budget friendly firearms, budget friendly optics, red dots, lasers, all that good stuff that people can afford.
Speaker C:Because honestly I feel like when you buy something, you're looking for YouTube reviews and I feel like there's sometimes typically you'll see like maybe a tabletop review showing something off and.
Speaker C:And then they're saying, yeah, it's great, you know, thank you for sending this out to us.
Speaker C:But I took it a step further and when I started getting stuff from different companies, I started breaking it.
Speaker C:I started really drop testing stuff because I feel like when it comes to budget quality items, you don't see a lot of that stuff.
Speaker C:And that's kind of like a void that I think I've started to fill.
Speaker C:We started drop testing a whole bunch of pistol red dots.
Speaker C:We really started putting things through their paces because I think, and it's probably going to be the same for the audience.
Speaker C:They want to know, like, are they getting the best bang for their buck?
Speaker C:So, pun intended.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's why we do those kind of videos that's why we do torture tests.
Speaker C:That's why we review budget friendly items.
Speaker C:Because we want to take that sort of category to the next level.
Speaker C:Because we need to know, you know, you don't want to waste money.
Speaker C:I don't think anyone does.
Speaker C:And that's kind of where we've grown from there.
Speaker C:We've gone and done firearms reviews, like I said, optics reviews.
Speaker C:And occasionally, as you know, we typically do ammo tests and things like that as well.
Speaker B:So when I first met you, your channel was at 800 subs.
Speaker B:And I was like, this guy is interesting.
Speaker B:I gotta take a look at this guy.
Speaker B:Let me, let me see.
Speaker B:You reached out to me via email and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna take a flyer on this.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:I think, I think he.
Speaker B:And that's the thing with the industry.
Speaker B:A lot of people are scared to ask because they're scared to get the answer no.
Speaker B:And that's one thing everybody has to overcome is the answer no.
Speaker B:And you sent me a very well written email and I was like, you know what, let's do this.
Speaker B:So I sent you out some self defense ammo and you were like, okay, let's do this thing.
Speaker B:The video comes out and you're wearing a lab coat.
Speaker B:And I thought it was the funniest thing in the world.
Speaker B:I was like, oh my.
Speaker B:This guy, this guy's got it.
Speaker B:He's, he's got the humor.
Speaker B:He's messing around, he's having fun.
Speaker B:I think there was a chicken or something somewhere.
Speaker C:Yeah, we have chickens.
Speaker B:Chicken.
Speaker B:So, you know, it was, it was a breath of fresh air to see somebody who could take themselves, who could be serious, but also have a funnier side.
Speaker B:And I applaud you for that because now you're almost at 10,000 subs.
Speaker B:You've really grown.
Speaker B:I'm really proud to see you grow.
Speaker B:Appreciate it.
Speaker B:And that just shows.
Speaker B:I mean, YouTube is a, is a grind.
Speaker B:At first you're like, oh, this is going slow.
Speaker B:I'm putting all this time into it.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden you start growing.
Speaker B:You're like, wow, this is cool.
Speaker B:People really want to watch this.
Speaker B:And you've touched a lot, a lot of people, especially in that budget space.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of money is tight right now and to touch that area.
Speaker B:A lot of people who go to watch those videos know that this is me taking my self protection in my hands and I want the best bang that I can get for my buck because like, you gotta stretch a dollar.
Speaker B:I mean We've seen gas go up, we've seen everything go up with inflation.
Speaker B:You're trying to make your dollar stretch and I applaud you for focusing on that area because that's a way to get your dollar to stretch a little more and get more bang for your buck.
Speaker C:Yeah, and that's kind of been our main area of focus.
Speaker C:It's almost like a Venn diagram.
Speaker C:So I think my target audience really appreciates both budget friendly stuff and new stuff.
Speaker C:So if I can ever find anything where those two areas, those two circles overlap, that's usually like a guaranteed hit.
Speaker C:So that's what we really go for.
Speaker C:PSA Dagger has been huge for us on the channel.
Speaker C:I mean, PSA is good quality stuff.
Speaker C:They've really come along.
Speaker C:And so with that Venn diagram in mind, it's been a big hit.
Speaker C:Like I can almost guarantee every time I do one of those videos it's going to get thousands of views.
Speaker C:Hopefully when the channel grows, it'll get maybe tens of thousands since, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, one of the things that I applaud you for is knowing who your audience is and just kind of where the country's at.
Speaker A:I know a lot of people who love guns.
Speaker A:It comes with the territory of my job.
Speaker A:I don't know anyone who isn't like things are a little tighter this year than they were even six months ago.
Speaker A:And I think that is true for everyone in the country and, and especially as we continue to see new gun owners join the second amendment community.
Speaker A:That first investment that you make isn't just what an average gun owner would make.
Speaker A:You know, we, we generally have some ammo.
Speaker A:We have, you know, we can change the optic from one gun to the other.
Speaker A:Like we, we can make a new, new gun work if that's what we want to use as our, our new concealed carry gun.
Speaker A:If you're a first time gun owner, you're making quite the investment because you have to buy everything.
Speaker A:And so I think that's really, really exciting.
Speaker A:I also think knowing that you're from East Tennessee, we're not an affluent part of the country and I can say that I was born and raised here.
Speaker A:Okay, fine, I was born in middle Tennessee, but don't hold that against me.
Speaker A:But you know, I, I grew up in East Tennessee and you know, I didn't see a lot of kids in my high school, you know, driving luxury cars with, with daddy's money.
Speaker A:We're, we're a hard working, mostly agrarian or, or manufacturing part of the, the country, you know, we're, we are the hillbillies, like, and that's, that's fine.
Speaker A:And that, that's cool.
Speaker A:And so knowing who you are and, and what you're representing and who you're representing and being authentic to that, I think will serve everyone well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker C:We always see on the channel whenever we're drop testing stuff, like, we're poor, we would never do this kind of stuff with our own stuff because we don't have enough money to buy everything and drop test everything ourselves.
Speaker C:So whenever we do have companies that reach out to us say, hey, we want to send this out to do a review on, it really helps.
Speaker C:It really does help because, I mean, it's just, I get it.
Speaker C:I didn't grow up rich or anything like that.
Speaker C:I don't think most of us ever did.
Speaker C:In East Tennessee.
Speaker C:We really, like you said, we really need to make our dollar stretch, especially with the inflation stuff kicking off right now.
Speaker C:Every, every bit of information counts to helping us spend our dollars wisely.
Speaker B:So that's well said first off, and I applaud you for doing that.
Speaker B:So when we announced goals, which is Gun Owners Advocacy and leadership summit happening August 17th and 18th in Knoxville, Tennessee, shameless plug there for the convention.
Speaker B:When we first announced goals, you were like the third person to put in a media request.
Speaker B:It was that quick.
Speaker B:You were like, yeah, hey, done in.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:So what, what's it mean to you to have a convention in East Tennessee?
Speaker B:And you jumped on it super early.
Speaker C:So there's a few things about that.
Speaker C:Number one is I do treat my channel as a hobby, but it's also business first.
Speaker C:So with that comes in, you know, time.
Speaker C:I tried to make sure that I am taking advantage of every opportunity to try and get in on these kinds of events.
Speaker C:I think it's very important.
Speaker C:So I'm not going to sit on an email and wait, maybe I should go, maybe I shouldn't know.
Speaker C:I'm planning on going because again, I treat it as a very important event.
Speaker C:Any opportunity to get exposure, to just be out there, to get experience in the industry, I think is more important than anything else.
Speaker C:I don't even necessarily care about making money or anything like that.
Speaker C:You know, like I said, I'm poor.
Speaker C:You know, I'm not afraid to be poor.
Speaker C:But like, but I do love what I do.
Speaker C:I love making content.
Speaker C:I love having the opportunity to film stuff, to try stuff.
Speaker C:And for me, that's the core value, the core foundation of why I make YouTube videos that's why I jumped on that.
Speaker C:That's why as soon as I saw it, I was like the third person to email you guys.
Speaker C:I also went to the PSA gathering and met with the GOA rep there, and I signed up again, probably there too, because I love any opportunity, especially around our area.
Speaker C:I love any opportunity given to just try stuff out, get with goa, get a chance to kind of like be there with you guys.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I, I appreciate that.
Speaker A:And, and I think the community appreciates that because we, we've been asked a lot for a convention.
Speaker A:This has been years in the making, which puts a significant amount of pressure on us because I truly love what our membership does and I constantly say this.
Speaker A:My staff hears it at least, at least weekly.
Speaker A:Our members are the best in the world.
Speaker A:And I don't want there to be a barrier for entry for you to start advocating for your rights.
Speaker A:In fact, you can go and not even be a member of GOA and send a message to your legislator.
Speaker A:Our membership, if you're not using a discount code, is $25.
Speaker A:And if you are, link in the description.
Speaker A:It's 20, right?
Speaker A:It's right now you can't even go to McDonald's for 20 bucks.
Speaker A:I mean, truthfully.
Speaker A:But it's so important that we have skin in the game, that we fight for our rights, that we get educated, and that's why we've kept our membership so low.
Speaker A:You know, we're not, we're not interested in.
Speaker A:I mean, if you want to give us more money, we'll use it to fight.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, I'm not, I'm not stupid.
Speaker A:You know, you can, you can definitely, as much as you're able to fund the fight, fund the fight.
Speaker A:But when you're looking at the state of America right now, especially, I want the Second Amendment community to see the, the power behind GOA members.
Speaker A:And I want people to be able to join and renew their memberships and not feel like, well, you know, I, I was gonna eat this week, but I, I guess I'll, I'll give my money here.
Speaker A:I, I want it to be accessible.
Speaker A:And that's something that our founder, you know, laid the groundwork for.
Speaker A:And, and that's why we get to do what we do.
Speaker A:And in times of low inflation, when people have extra spending money, you know, we'll see people give more.
Speaker A:And when they don't, they don't.
Speaker A:And as long as you're in the fight, and even if you don't have an extra dollar to your name, go send an email.
Speaker A:It's free, and we make it free because it's important to us that you participate in whatever level that is.
Speaker C:I feel like Gun Owners of America, you guys are really pushing the envelope, really fighting for our rights.
Speaker C:There's a lot of organizations out there, but I feel like you guys are one of the most prominent groups that are actually making a difference in all regards.
Speaker C:I mean, look at the pistol brace thing.
Speaker C:You know, you guys filed those lawsuits on there.
Speaker C:Every step of the way.
Speaker C:Every time the ATF has basically done something that, let's be honest, they always are doing something.
Speaker C:Y' all have been there as sort of like the first line of defense against all that.
Speaker C:So I just want to say I really appreciate you guys and all of GOA for doing that.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's incredible how cunning the atf, the bureaucracies, even the political class can be.
Speaker A:So sometimes with attacking our rights, with destroying the Second Amendment, you know, we.
Speaker A:We see that with assault weapons bans.
Speaker A:We see that with magazine capacity, we see that with removing hunter education from schools.
Speaker A:And, you know, the ATF is not our friends, right?
Speaker A:I think any.
Speaker A:Any gun owner can.
Speaker A:Can look at that and be like, nope, they're not our friends.
Speaker A:But people kind of get shocked.
Speaker A:Or we'll get some messages being like, hey, why are we sending emails to the Department of the Interior?
Speaker A:And it's like, well, they're trying to bed land ammo on public lands.
Speaker A:And they're like, what?
Speaker A:And it's like, yeah, like, they're not.
Speaker A:It's not a one.
Speaker A:It's not a clear battlefield where it's just one adversary attacking the Second Amendment.
Speaker A:It's a multifaceted attack, that they're very smart about it.
Speaker A:And I think that GOA members constantly being willing and able and educated and persistent in fighting for our rights have given our success.
Speaker A:We are nothing without our members.
Speaker A:We are a grassroots gun lobby.
Speaker A:We will always be a grassroots gun lobby.
Speaker A:We have lobbyists.
Speaker A:They're great.
Speaker A:We have a legal team.
Speaker A:They are incredible.
Speaker A:Would I want to do either one of those jobs?
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:But, you know, I. I'm happy to be a part in my little corner of the organization to.
Speaker A:To help further the fight.
Speaker A:And I tell people all the time, I will never ask you to do something I'm not willing to do.
Speaker A:And I. I'm sending emails right alongside you.
Speaker A:I'm calling my representatives right alongside you.
Speaker A:If you made it to the Tennessee lobby day, you saw me in person.
Speaker A:And until the tornado hit, and I Got a call from my babysitter, was like, hey, can you come get your kid?
Speaker A:So then I left a couple hours early.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'm there and I love participating in those events and I would never ask anyone to do something that I myself am not willing to.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:The ATF is doing a lot of fun business.
Speaker C:And that kind of, that's really why I'm excited to talk to you guys today because of, you know, what they've recently come out with is this whole thing with private sales.
Speaker C:These, this the final rule, if you will, of private sales.
Speaker C:And you know, I've seen a couple of videos out there from like Jer from Guns and Gadgets when he put that whole thing out there covering it.
Speaker C:And I looked and did some more research with armed attorneys and, you know, did my own research as well.
Speaker C:And you gotta keep in mind, I'm a youtuber without an FFL and I just enjoy making gun content.
Speaker C:Reviewing firearms with the private sale final rule.
Speaker C:From what I can gather, I may not be able to do that anymore because of the issue where according to the private sales final rule, you buy a gun, let's say you buy it new, like I do, and then you maybe make a few videos.
Speaker C:Well, just going back, turning around, selling it.
Speaker C:That apparently is now a problem.
Speaker C:Even though, let's be honest, I mean, if I'm buying a gun down and then selling it used, I'm never making a profit.
Speaker C:Like, I don't have any intention of making a profit.
Speaker C:And that's what's really weird about it is that the whole final rule about private sale is about the intention, which is very subjective.
Speaker C:The intention of making a profit.
Speaker C:It doesn't make sense.
Speaker C:So for me, as a small YouTuber, a reviewer, an influencer, I hate that word, but, you know, puts me in a weird spot, like a weird gray area, because how are they going to treat what I do now?
Speaker C:My understanding is I have, you know, looked at it and apparently just even one sale will count towards you having to have an FFL now.
Speaker C:But that doesn't.
Speaker C:Like they say occasionally.
Speaker C:Like if you sell a gun occasionally, what does that mean?
Speaker C:They haven't really defined what occasionally means.
Speaker A:So here's the thing.
Speaker A:With everything that the government does, they intentionally make it as vague as possible.
Speaker A:I think in my opinion, it's my personal opinion, and it's there to be a restriction on the second amendment.
Speaker A:We have already publicly declared we are going to file suit.
Speaker A:Surprise, surprise, Goa is going to file another lawsuit.
Speaker A:I know everyone in the Comments are like, I'm so shocked.
Speaker A:But no, we, we are going to be fighting this and, and it's an important fight because these sort of rules that drastically change what qualifies what, what is legal, what is not legal.
Speaker A:It, it has real ramifications not just for those who are, you know, in the public space with a YouTube channel, but just individuals that may, you know, fall on hard times and need to sell something or have used firearms as that investment piece.
Speaker A:You know, let's be honest, if you have an 86 machine gun, it's worth a whole heck of a lot more money whenever you purchased it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I wish I had.
Speaker A:And, and that's the truth with so many firearms as they can be appreciating values especially when regulations and rules change.
Speaker A:Like we saw with the 86 act that, you know, if you had a pre 86 that was grandfathered in, that instantly made the firearms worth more money and they continue to be with more money worth more money every single day.
Speaker B:Well, it's funny, it's machine gun prices is astronomical first off, which they shouldn't be, should be cheap to own a machine gun.
Speaker B:We should all own machine guns.
Speaker B:Hashtag repeal the nfa.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But just think about the number of people in the 80s, and this is making everybody sound old that bought crates of SKS and crates of Mosin.
Speaker B:They were $80.
Speaker B:Has anybody recently looked at the price of an SKS?
Speaker C:Yeah, that's how it goes.
Speaker B:They're like four or five hundred dollars now and climbing depending on the variant.
Speaker B:If it's, if it's a Russian, it's even worth more.
Speaker B:So now I'm making money on an investment, like you said, an investment piece.
Speaker B:And I've been big into the surplus game since I started getting into firearms because I knew that first off, when they come to the country, they're cheap and you can get them cheap.
Speaker B:And as time goes on, the price of them inflate as the supply dwindles and their investments because the same thought, thought process is as the supply dwindles, there's less on the market, the price goes up.
Speaker B:Supply and demand, right.
Speaker B:The other thing, you know, people don't understand, or maybe there's a misconception, misnomer that if you're doing YouTube, you're making millions of dollars and you're not making anything, especially a small time YouTuber or a smaller channel, you are selling that gun to invest back into your channel to get the next gun.
Speaker B:This could hurt a lot of the smaller channels because they, they get Rid, not everybody gets things for free from the industry.
Speaker B:It is hard.
Speaker B:It is relationship built.
Speaker B:You build a lot of relationships with people and then you, they, you get teeny and as time goes on, you have to sell off stu to help supply the channel.
Speaker B:Ammo's not cheap.
Speaker B:Guns aren't cheap.
Speaker B:The film, the time, everything.
Speaker B:I mean, if you were to consider the cost of what it makes to make a YouTube video, it could be 2, $3,000 in theoretical cost because your time is still worth something and you have to get back your investment.
Speaker B:If this were to go unchallenged, and we know that we are going to sue it, but if this were to go unchallenged, how many of the 0 to 50,000 subscriber YouTube channels are just going to disappear?
Speaker B:How many more voices are we going to lose because they just can't afford to keep their channel running?
Speaker B:I mean, that is, the number in my head is astronomical.
Speaker B:I mean, we've seen a lot of people starting to get into YouTube and we always encourage people to get in front of the camera and talk and spread your message and your word and what you think and your journey in the second Amendment.
Speaker B:But there is a chance that we're going to see.
Speaker B:And how many people watch your.
Speaker B:Because they find you entertaining.
Speaker B:They find the content thing.
Speaker B:Not everybody wants to watch the Hickoks of the world and the other guys.
Speaker B:You watch multiple videos if you ever tried to buy a gun.
Speaker B:I watched 10 videos maybe before I make a decision.
Speaker B:And it's, it's everything from Hickok 45 down to TN Tactical, down to Ghost Tactical who's been on with us, down to Clover Tactical who's a good friend, down to Tactical Considerations and Tactical Toolbox.
Speaker B:Why are there so many tacticals?
Speaker B:I'm just realizing this.
Speaker C:Well, I did T and Tactical because it kind of T and Tactical, same.
Speaker B:Layers, so many tacticals in this.
Speaker B:But we lose a aspect of our second Amendment.
Speaker A:I think it goes beyond just those people who are advocating on the large scale for people to join the second amendment community and are giving confidence for purchasing or reviews.
Speaker A:I think this goes far beyond that.
Speaker A:And the most pressing issue is if you are a parent or someone or a neighbor or you know, a community member and someone is in, you know, serious trouble and they can't afford a firearm, but you know, they have a stalker or if there is somebody who is trying to defend their family and they live in the rough part of town and they just don't have any, any money left in the budget and you Say, you know, hey, you know, I'll sell it to you for 100 bucks and you know you're making a loss on that.
Speaker A:But just that purchase can, can cause substantial harm.
Speaker A:And how, how many victims will become victims because they were unable to purchase at a price?
Speaker A:Because let's be honest, as great as our, our fellow second amendment advocates are at the gun stores, they can't afford to sell a used gun or a new gun for a hundred dollars or what someone can pay to be able to protect themselves.
Speaker A:Those kind of transactions solely rely on kind hearted gun owners that see somebody in need and is willing to offer and train them and, and get them started so that they have something to protect themselves.
Speaker A:You know, we see so many domestic violence stories where they are, are constantly having to defend themselves against their, their attacker.
Speaker A:And you know, I kind of go back to the, the story from Carrie who, who runs we the female.
Speaker A:The day that she got her firearm was the day that she became truly empowered and she knew that, that, that horrible injustice that she was served was no longer going to happen to her because she was carrying.
Speaker A:And now she's, she's gone on and started a whole nonprofit and is on this whole campaign to arm the women.
Speaker A:And that's fantastic.
Speaker A:And I, and I love those stories.
Speaker A:But I do wonder how many people in that situation can even afford to go into the gun store and make that purchase for themselves.
Speaker A:Probably not many because how many abusive situations start off financially first?
Speaker B:Well, well, first off, well said and a great point, not that that is something that is very overlooked, but the other thing that I'm sitting here thinking while you're talking and trying to figure out where to go and what if somebody, what if I get a T and E?
Speaker B:What if I get a, a gift or somebody has passed away and I, and I received a collection and I go, you know, and I go, or let's just say somebody passed away and the wife is not very comfortable with guns in the house.
Speaker B:We see it all the time at the, at a lot of things.
Speaker B:We're working at a gun store.
Speaker B:Somebody passes away and the wife just is like, hey, you know, I have the one, I want, I want to get rid of the rest of these.
Speaker B:She didn't buy those.
Speaker B:That's profit to her.
Speaker B:How does that affect that widow?
Speaker B:How does it affect, you know, let's just say your, your lovely husband Matt gets you a gift and you go, yeah, I don't like pink guns, Matt, he should know better.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:But let's just say you don't like it.
Speaker B:And then now you, you sell it to get what you want.
Speaker B:Now you're liable, you're making a profit on it.
Speaker B:You know, it's crazy how many things this is going to encompass and how many people it's going to affect.
Speaker C:And one thing I want to bring up is this all targets the seller.
Speaker C:It doesn't really target the buyers.
Speaker C:The whole idea was supposed to be to you know, keep guns from getting in criminals hands.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:That was I guess, the initial idea at least.
Speaker C:And this only affects the sellers.
Speaker C:Buyers are not liable with this final rule at all.
Speaker C:Like they're completely like out of the mix for this.
Speaker C:It's only affecting sellers.
Speaker C:So with that and with that in mind, think about gun buybacks.
Speaker C:Think about you as a gun owner and let's say for some crazy reason you're like, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and turn in Gun XYZ and get that gift card or whatever they're going to give you.
Speaker C:Well, that's an exchange.
Speaker C:You know, you are technically selling it to a gun buyback.
Speaker C:Are you going to be held accountable for that as well?
Speaker A:There's so many implications to this and, and I believe that's why they make these so vague is so that they can come back later and, and take more and take more and take more.
Speaker A:And we see this in, in other applications.
Speaker A:I think probably one of the best examples of that is with the importation laws and the for sporting purposes and, and they have been able to redefine and you know, wiggle and, and, and maneuver so well to stop us from being able to import firearms, limiting the choice of everyday Americans.
Speaker A:And I think that they like keeping a certain amount of vagueness so that they can do more and more and more.
Speaker A:And I think that's why they, they've used it as like engaged in business.
Speaker A:Well, what does that even mean?
Speaker A:You know, I think that if you go out and you survey a whole bunch of people, everyone's going to have a different version of what that means.
Speaker A:And I think that vagueness is intentional.
Speaker A:And I think it's something that should perk everyone's ears up when they hear that.
Speaker A:Because you might think, whoa, well I don't sell my guns, you know, I buy them and I keep them forever.
Speaker A:Okay, but this whole apathy that can exist because this doesn't affect me or I don't, I don't perceive that it affects me, doesn't stop it from actually affecting you.
Speaker C:And I will say this too, whether you're doing YouTube or not doesn't matter.
Speaker C:You're gonna find a gun that you buy at some point and you're gonna realize, oh wait, I really don't like the way this gun feels in my hand.
Speaker C:I don't like the way it shoots.
Speaker C:Maybe the, the high overboard or whatever off or something.
Speaker C:Maybe.
Speaker C:You know, I'm saying, like, there's a lot of different reasons why someone may end up wanting to get rid of a gun with no intention to make profit.
Speaker C:I mean, that's happened to me a few times since doing the channel.
Speaker C:I've had a handful of guns I just did not like and I got rid of them at a loss.
Speaker C:But anybody could be in that same situation.
Speaker A:Or you want to upgrade.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or, you know, like there's not everyone has massive amounts of disposable income where, where they can, you know, not trade something in to get something else.
Speaker B:Well, exactly.
Speaker B:I mean, there's been guns that I've bought and regretted.
Speaker B:I mean, that, that derringer was a very dumb idea.
Speaker B:And honey, you were right.
Speaker B:But it's, it's the same thing.
Speaker B:Like there, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:There are guns that you are like, this is the greatest whiz bang thing ever.
Speaker B:Everybody keeps telling me I should buy it.
Speaker B:And then you buy it and then you start shooting and you're like, this is not my cup of tea.
Speaker B:And then you hold on because you're like, I got to figure out how to make this my cup of tea.
Speaker B:And then you finally go, it's like stages of grief when you buy a gun.
Speaker B:You're like, I got acceptance.
Speaker B:And then I'm denial.
Speaker B:And then I got to get rid of it.
Speaker B:So it's, it's, you know, you brought up for sporting purposes.
Speaker B:And it's true.
Speaker B:They want to keep it vague.
Speaker B:They want to keep certain things.
Speaker B:I mean, we've talked with importers.
Speaker B:There are so many cool things coming out of Europe.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't think European, you know, Europe, the gun market in Europe is very big, but it is a very large in countries that are not called Great Britain.
Speaker B:And it's, it's.
Speaker B:We've talked to like Chase from EAA and we talked to Jake from Saar and they were like, yeah, I would love to bring in.
Speaker B:We go.
Speaker B:He's like, we go to Iwa.
Speaker B:I'd love to bring in all these cool things.
Speaker B:I see.
Speaker B:But there's this for sporting purpose clause or there's the, the, the number.
Speaker B:It doesn't hit the right numbers.
Speaker B:We don't have on a handgun.
Speaker B:We don't have the numbers or oh, we can't get enough 9 to to our compliant parts in the state to, to make it importable.
Speaker B:They just like to keep it vague because then there's so many questions and then you question things and then you don't do what you need to do.
Speaker B:You can't import that gun.
Speaker B:You can't get rid of guns that you don't like.
Speaker B:You can't trade or do anything because it's so vague that you're so worried.
Speaker B:As gun owners are law abiding citizens, we are very to the T of the law and we are scared to break said law.
Speaker C:I think gun owners probably know the law better than most average everyday Americans, to be honest with you.
Speaker C:Because we are concerned about following the law, but we know who doesn't follow the law.
Speaker C:Criminals.
Speaker C:And they're supposed to be targeting that group of people to, you know, supposedly lower gun crime and stuff.
Speaker C:Which, you know, those statistics, those statistics are a little bit skewed in the first place.
Speaker C:But you know.
Speaker A:Well, you know the.
Speaker A:I think that's a really good point because we've seen a attack on gun owners like we've never seen before because criminals don't obey the law.
Speaker A:That is their defining characteristic.
Speaker A:And so when you do something as overarching and as sweeping as I don't know, making 40 million Americans felons overnight because you decide to redefine something that you previously said was legal, I don't know where we've seen an example like that.
Speaker A:I don't know, maybe the pistol brace ban just recently.
Speaker A:What are you doing to public perception?
Speaker A:It's a, it's a very pointed attack because if you make someone a felon, I think we could all agree felons are criminals.
Speaker A:And so why would we characterize something that like a firearm and make the firearm illegal and turn everyone into felons?
Speaker A:If we weren't trying to have a public.
Speaker A:Why would we do that?
Speaker A:Why would we attack gun owners like that?
Speaker A:If we weren't trying to change public perception and we were not trying to go after a group of people that are law abiding, that want the best for our country, that want to protect them and their family, why would they choose that if they weren't trying to hurt people and change the perception of gun owners and ultimately gain more control?
Speaker A:And that isn't me putting on a tinfoil hat.
Speaker A:That's just me looking at what's going on in the world and saying that was quite The PR campaign.
Speaker A:I mean, if we're honest.
Speaker B:No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:I mean, what.
Speaker B:What's a better narrative than 40 million felons gun owners?
Speaker B:40 Million gun owners are felons.
Speaker B:What's that statistic look like?
Speaker B:How does that play out in the narrative on the.
Speaker B:The big network television news places like CNN and MSNBC and all that?
Speaker C:Oh, they have a field day with it.
Speaker B:They have a field day.
Speaker B:But, I mean, hold on.
Speaker B:I got to make sure my tinfoil hat's not on.
Speaker B:We're good, but.
Speaker B:But it is.
Speaker B:You're absolutely right.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker B:It's a narrative that they can play with.
Speaker B:And I'm proud of our legal team and I'm proud of GOA members for supporting and fighting so we can get.
Speaker A:The injunction and the other thing on.
Speaker A:On that.
Speaker A:And, and this is something that I will.
Speaker A:I will constantly say is don't give up fighting legislatively.
Speaker A:And in the comment section of rules, whether that is for your representatives or for the ATF or the Department of Interior, whatever it is that, you know, we're emailing you on or that we're talking about on a podcast, because it has significant ramifications.
Speaker A:And I can.
Speaker A:I can prove that.
Speaker A:Because when we show gun owners don't want the pistol brace rule, and then that triggers us to be able to go to Congress and say, we need a Congressional Review act, and then we ram the Congressional Review act through and it passes bipartisan in the House, what does that do to the legal argument.
Speaker C:Of the ATF and going back to the pistol brace rule?
Speaker C:So I think this new one with the private sales is actually worse.
Speaker C:And the reason why is because the pistol brace granted, you know, I think any rule or law against gun rights is unconstitutional, but the pistol brace is a piece of plastic.
Speaker C:It's something tangible.
Speaker C:It's something that, you know, you could be like, okay, let's remove it and, you know, put somewhere else in a different location or destroy it or whatever that's tangible.
Speaker C:This new rule, the private sales final rule, is intangible.
Speaker C:It's subjective.
Speaker C:That's the key.
Speaker C:It's kind of at their own whim of whoever is looking over your case or whatever.
Speaker C:It's up to their opinion that they may have about firearms and rights and stuff like that.
Speaker C:So that leaves a huge gray area for everyone.
Speaker B:I think that's the scariest part about this.
Speaker B:And Kelly coined the term ETFs war on plastic.
Speaker B:And we talk about how they've gone after this all star, the Pandora box Goes back to when the bump stocks got banned.
Speaker B:That is what opened Pandora's box.
Speaker B:Because they could look at tangible items like accessories and go after them.
Speaker B:And they could make rules based on nothing.
Speaker B:They could change their mind like somebody changes their underwear every day.
Speaker B:But with this, the gray is so wide and broadening that the gun.
Speaker B:You're gonna discourage people from buying guns and discourage people from selling their firearms to so they can do stuff.
Speaker A:In my opinion, this is the ATF's attempt to make firearms a liability versus an asset.
Speaker A:How many of us across the US that have purchased firearms kept them in a safe with the hopes of receiving of our grandkids receiving the firearms?
Speaker A:I mean, I know from personal experience when you get handed down firearms from your grandfather or your father, like those family heirlooms mean a lot, whether they are worth more money than they, than they weren't.
Speaker A:But I think there's a huge amount of people who would be very fearful of, you know, that liability in their home.
Speaker A:And this takes the liability outside of the safety, which we all know that we're in control of our firearms.
Speaker A:We know what happens to them.
Speaker A:A gun has never gone off without somebody pulling the trigger in our homes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And thankfully, right, they're inanimate objects.
Speaker A:But you know, I think there's a huge push for people to view firearms as a liability and that would be devastating to the second amendment community.
Speaker C:And they're trying to force everyone to get an ffl, which makes, you know, absolutely no sense.
Speaker C:Of course I know there's gonna be some people in the comments that are gonna say, oh well, if you're doing YouTube you should have an FFL.
Speaker C:And if, if you're one of those people that say that, I wouldn't have to disagree with you.
Speaker C:It's a God given right.
Speaker C:At least in this country it is.
Speaker C:You shouldn't have to have an FFL because you want to make videos showing off or reviewing firearms.
Speaker A:I have the pleasure of knowing many YouTubers that this is their hobby, it's their passion project.
Speaker A:They don't really care if they make any money off of it.
Speaker A:They love their career and they really don't want it to become their full time jobs.
Speaker A:And they're doing it just hoping that they meet a need that they saw an opening to meet.
Speaker A:And I think that there's a lot of things that happen when you have to open up a business side and there's all kinds of, of legal things.
Speaker A:And the great part about rumble and YouTube is you don't have to have A business license to post videos.
Speaker A:You don't have to have those hoops to jump through.
Speaker A:And therefore it is one of the few mediums left where anyone can feel like they can start at any time.
Speaker B:Well, I like where you're going.
Speaker B:I love everything.
Speaker B:But this is.
Speaker B:I've been thinking about this point this whole time.
Speaker B:They want us to all be FFLs.
Speaker B:The logistical nightmare of just that.
Speaker B:Think about it though.
Speaker B:How many more ATF agents would they have to hire on if we were.
Speaker A:All almost like I.
Speaker A:And maybe this is me putting my tinfoil hat on.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Disclaimer.
Speaker A:This is Kaylee's personal opinion and not reflective of the organization.
Speaker A:But isn't it just funny that we're getting this at the same time as I don't know, a certain zero tolerance policy.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:But here, here's the other thing.
Speaker B:If, if now I have to be an ffl right to, to own, purchase and run and sell my firearms legal because I'm a law abiding citizen, I'm going to follow the letter of law.
Speaker B:What can the ATF do when you have an ffl?
Speaker B:They can go and check you.
Speaker B:Now I feel like they're going after my fourth amendment rights to come into my home to check.
Speaker A:Plus everything is going to be in a bound book, every serial number, everything.
Speaker C:Also they're trying to do away with home based ffls and force you to have a brick and mortar business established.
Speaker B:That's fumble on the play that's in.
Speaker B:That's insanity.
Speaker B:I mean I don't know about you but I can't afford a commercial space.
Speaker B:I can't afford to rent a commercial space.
Speaker B:Heck if I, if I, I can't even afford to build a shed to can say that it's a commercial space, you know and make it a separate business address.
Speaker B:It's insanity that they are going this far.
Speaker B:I mean you're looking at the, their budget inflating 20 fold to cover all this if they to hire the amount of people they need to hire and.
Speaker A:Thank the Lord we actually just got a budget cut for them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:For the first time in a long time and I'm hoping we'll see many more down the line.
Speaker A:But no, I, I think you know there, there's so many attacks on FFLs right now.
Speaker A:To add all of these people into it is administratively is just blows my mind a little bit and that and so you know like most government ideas I think they're mostly half baked.
Speaker A:But again personal opinion, There's a lot of personal opinions in the show, none of the show.
Speaker A:You know, actually that's a good idea.
Speaker A:You know, I think, I think so much of this right now we're going to see play out in the courts.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:We can all speculate.
Speaker A:You know, this show is not legal advice.
Speaker A:We are not attorneys.
Speaker A:We do not claim to be attorneys.
Speaker A:We do not play attorneys on YouTube or any other, you know, any other platform that you may be listening to this on.
Speaker A:You know, we're everyday citizens talking about the second Amendment and our fears on how this may affect us.
Speaker A:And you know, our attorneys will be posting plenty of articles, they will be breaking down the legal arguments.
Speaker A:And we have, we have shows dedicated to bringing, you know, just, just the facts.
Speaker A:But when you, when you sit back and you speculate of all of the potential downfalls of this rule, I think it's very scary.
Speaker A:And I think that this is the, these are the moments where, you know, if you're not involved in these fights, join goa.
Speaker A:That is, I work for GOA because I believe we are the best organization.
Speaker A:I love our attorneys and they are fantastic at what they do and they have, have fought at every level and won successfully.
Speaker A:And so, you know, if you're not, if you're not a member, you know, please, please join.
Speaker A:I mean, if you, if you didn't think your membership was worth it before you saw that, you know, sometimes injunctions, even if you ask for a national injunction on something, you get one just to cover your members.
Speaker A:And so, so it's better to be safe than sorry.
Speaker A:And you know, we're dedicated to this fight.
Speaker A:We will continue to be putting out more content on it.
Speaker A:I don't want to get too far down the road on speculation.
Speaker B:Yeah, because if we get too far down the road of speculation, people will say our tinfoil hats are on.
Speaker B:So I don't want to go down there, but I'm getting the wrap up sign from our producer over there.
Speaker B:Thank you, Alex, for that.
Speaker B:Let's go ahead and wrap up.
Speaker B:Jake, where can people find you on the interwebs?
Speaker C:So our biggest presence is obviously going to be on YouTube.
Speaker C:TN Tactical.
Speaker C:Look us up.
Speaker C:We also have a small Instagram following and Facebook page.
Speaker C:Of course, I'm a little bit of a boomer, so I'm just now figuring out how to work ig.
Speaker C:So check us out if you're looking for budget friendly firearm reviews and if you like watching budget red dots being dropped on concrete, we've got stuff for you.
Speaker B:Jake, thank you again for making the two hour drive to come join us, guys.
Speaker B:Make sure to like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting hosts.
Speaker B:Make sure to go to goals.gunrunners.org to sign up for the GOA's first convention being held in Knoxville, Tennessee August 17th and 18th.
Speaker B:And thank you for joining us and have a great rest of your day.
