In this episode, we explore modern jiu jitsu vs traditional jiu jitsu - have we gone too far?!

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Have we come too far?

Have we ruined the sport?

Welcome to Be the and the gi, a podcast about Jiu Jitsu and so much more.

I'm AJ Klingerman, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt obsessed with Jiu Jitsu.

And I'm Jennifer Risser, also a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt, full of nonsense and tomfoolery.

Yes.

And.

And we apologize to anyone watching the video version of this.

We're not wearing matching shirts.

It's devastating.

It's devastating.

How do you guys even recognize this?

And this is how you can tell we recorded two podcasts on the same day.

That is true.

We could have changed clothes real fast, but we were at a tournament today.

We are both wearing role model shirts.

They just don't match because we were in a hurry and couldn't find matching ones.

So if you don't listen to the business podcast, that's the story.

Yeah.

Also go listen to it.

Why not?

Yeah, why not?

It's a good one.

Yeah.

Actually, the business podcast that came out on Monday, when you're listening to this is good for everyone.

Like, it is not super business related.

It is about continuing education, which is something we all need.

Yeah.

True coaches.

Anybody who teaches Jiu Jitsu.

For sure.

Yeah.

So just a little plug.

All right, so we're talking about if we ruined Jiu Jitsu.

Yeah, I think we might have.

We might have.

A lot of triggered men on the Internet would definitely say we have.

My favorite is the guy who, like, is really mad about women laughing during Jiu Jitsu.

Yeah.

Can't remember that guy's name.

Yeah, I.

It's like Brandon or Brendan or something.

But that was.

Yeah, yeah.

There's a guy that, like, I think he went kind of viral.

He did.

Where he was just complaining about women giggling and it's like, oh, yeah, we have joy doing Jiu Jitsu.

You're welcome.

How dare, like, tell me you don't want women training at your gym without telling me.

Yeah.

That's actually a soundbite on TikTok.

Is it?

Mm.

It's just like, women rolling and laughing with him saying it in the background.

It's fantastic.

But how did this come up, the idea of us ruining the sport?

Well, our friend, student Matt brought it up at dinner the other night that he thought it might be a good podcast topic.

So we thought we would just see what we had to say about it.

Yeah.

And what do we have to say?

We have.

We have things to say about anything.

So we'll find out.

We be Yapping.

One thing about us is we be yapping.

So, yeah, there are certain personalities or people on the Internet.

I guess they're in real life too, but we see them on the Internet because why would we see them in person that think, you know, jiu jitsu has really wandered from its origin from being a true martial art.

Now it's like we're silly people in jammies just giggling and, you know, we die on the mean streets of Greenwood.

With the jujitsu we have.

Yeah, it's like the original stuff, sport was very much self defense based.

Right.

And it was often times like murder, death, kill all the time.

Like, could you survive the room and if you couldn't leave, they want you there.

Exactly.

You know, there was a coach, fairly local to hear that one of our students came from and that was kind of still their mentality.

They backed off of it a little bit, but it was still very much like, if you can't handle it, you don't belong here.

Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

That's tough.

I think what we've really done is one, make it a sport.

Right.

Like, we've made it accessible to more people so that we can actually compete.

I bet, you know, they don't look good.

Yeah, Some of you, you look at them and you're like, they're 50.

They look 70 and they're walking like they're 80.

Like, you know, we've made it into a sport that is more accessible to people, that people can actually train into their 70s and 80s instead of dying.

No, that's not the right word.

But, you know, like being so roughed up.

Yeah, true.

Yeah.

I think about Leca Vieira.

We got to learn from her at one of Rachel's camps a few years ago and she trained back in the day.

Like, I think she was training in the 90s in Brazil and it was not a good environment for her.

Like, the fact that she was able to remain in Jiu jitsu is amazing.

Like, she was telling stories of men spitting on her and like really bad stuff.

Like, I'm.

If we've ruined the sport, sign me up.

Like, I think we've done a good job.

You know, for me, I don't understand why it can't just be like there are different branches.

You know, it's kind of like argument about marriage.

Right.

You shouldn't be able to get gay married or it should be a different thing.

Right.

I mean, it's just marriage.

Right?

Like, yeah, I don't understand that.

You know, same thing for Jiu Jitsu.

Why can't there be versions of Jiu Jitsu?

This is really self defense based.

Some people come in and they really want to do self defense.

Some people come in and they just want to move their body and have fun.

It's like kickboxing class.

Not all of them are in there to be a professional kickboxer or even for self defense.

Some of them just want a good workout in community.

Yeah.

And that's, I mean, that's what we provide.

Right.

You know, like, we do good Jiu Jitsu.

Of course we do.

But we're not in there doing murder, death, kill.

Because we want to be doing this for a long time.

And when people want to like prepare for a competition or get hard rounds or anything like that, we can still do that.

And we can do it in a safe manner.

Yeah, yeah.

But you know, there's only a certain percentage that are going to go be adult world champions.

Right.

Jiu Jitsu is a sport where you can go compete at high levels if you really want to, you know, as anybody.

Like, you can just go up, come off the street and just be like, I'm gonna go compete at adult world.

That's awesome.

I mean, to an extent, but the vast majority of people are hobbyists.

Right.

Like, there wouldn't be as many Jiu Jitsu gyms as there are.

There wouldn't be as much money in Jiu Jitsu if we hadn't widened what Jiu Jitsu can be.

Yeah.

I don't really understand this concept of.

It just, it has to be murder, death, kill.

It has to be so self defense focused.

That's not fun.

Like, that can be really good if you're just like, I'm a true martial artist and this is what this is about and blah, blah, blah.

But even if you look at other sports and whether they're doing well or not, or other arts and whether they're doing well or not, you know, you can kind of think about that.

Like, look at judo.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, Judo really took a hit from the standpoint of like when Jiu Jitsu started to expand, Judo took a real hit.

Because judo is a little more weighted in tradition and Jiu Jitsu isn't.

And you can argue whether one is better than the other from the sport aspect and from the weighted in traditions aspect.

But I think the numbers also don't lie.

Yeah, well.

And even if you look at judo, not to beat up on judo, but we could.

Just kidding.

Matt's gonna love this podcast.

A joke I make in our gym sometimes, which I don't think Mac actually thinks is funny, is that judo's fake, which is like, I absolutely don't believe that, but I do think it's really.

Funny to say, yeah, when he's doing stand up right before he launches somebody.

Don't let him do that to you.

It's fake.

Judo's made up.

It's not real.

Anyway, you know, they changed the judo rules because wrestlers were coming in and, like, messing them up, right?

So it was like, well, can't touch the legs anymore.

What are you gonna do?

Wrestlers, right?

Like, they changed the rules so they could win, not because that's based in any kind of self defense.

If that were based in self defense, that never would have been a rule change, you know, so that's.

I mean, that's looking at a much more like, serious, quote unquote, martial art that is more steeped in or has continued to stay more steeped in, like, tradition, from my view.

Yeah, yeah.

And jiu jitsu has done some of those same things in the competition aspect.

Like, the whole reaping thing, like, that came because they were trying to keep the leg lockers out of the sport or, like, not allow them to win.

And instead the people that wanted to do leg locks just found ways around it, right?

Like, they learned how to do leg locks without reaping.

And that's.

To me, one of the beauties of our sport is that it continues to evolve to where anybody can do it and do the type of jiu jitsu they want to do.

Yeah.

It's like, I love it.

But, I mean, I will admit that I also have moments, like, where you look, we were in a tournament today, and I looked over and somebody had, like, reverse clothes guard.

And you're just like, we might have girl bused too close to the sun on this one, guys.

Like, I see the value of reverse clothes guard.

I understand its function.

You look over there and you're just like, you know what?

You can't.

Tourniquet is a taint.

That's kind of an inside joke for us.

We had a self defense instructor come in one time and talk about how you can't tourniquet a taint.

So definitely don't get stabbed there.

So there's more to that story.

But important knowledge, though.

It is important knowledge.

We reiterate It a lot, you know, we used to do in our old curriculum at our old gym, like what was it, four or six weeks?

I don't know, a very long time.

One to two times a year.

We would do self defense for that long.

And I don't think anyone enjoyed it.

I know that there were aspects of it that are good for us.

Quote, unquote.

Yeah.

If you're not watching this on video.

I did use air quotes, but we all hated it.

And instead I like when we're teaching or someone else is teaching and they reference it, like if I'm in a tournament, I'm going to do this.

If this were a self defense aspect, it would look different.

Or this is how I would handle it.

And that way whoever's in the room, whether they're there for self defense or for fighting or for competition, whatever, they understand how what we're doing is good for that or not.

Yeah.

Or, you know, at times you have run just a self defense class that's like weekly.

Yeah, yeah.

Like there's room for that.

That's okay.

That's great.

It's amazing.

It's amazing if people want to work on their self defense.

I don't want to do that.

I really don't.

You know, I love Jiu Jitsu because it's fun and it's silly and I can play octopus guard and worm guard and nonsense and tomfoolery.

It's literally in the title or in the byline or whatever you want to call it.

Hello, this is Risser of the future.

I'm realizing that I meant tagline.

I'm just stupid.

Thank you and good day.

Yeah, so I don't think we've ruined it.

I think we've helped improve it.

Yeah, I mean, I think we've made it accessible for more people.

We say we like we did this.

Like we are the inventors of silly sport Jiu Jitsu.

It's us.

Hi.

We did it.

No, I mean we as in all of us in Jiu Jitsu.

I mean, I know there are still the other, you know, the other side of it that thinks we ruined it.

But I think Jiu Jitsu as a whole has just expanded.

It has evolved.

And to me, that's the beauty of Jiu Jitsu.

That's what I want in our sport.

Yeah, it makes it more fun, it makes it more interesting, it makes it exciting.

I don't think there would be as much opportunity for, you know, high level competition Jiu Jitsu.

Like no one would be watching if we were Only focused on self defense techniques.

Right.

To an extent.

At the high levels, you're seeing mostly fundamentals, but you're also seeing some things that you'd never do on the street.

Right, right.

You're never gonna pull guard in the street.

Yeah.

And like how many people are at Jiu Jitsu kwan do?

You know, like, it's like 12,000 or something.

Like that would not be possible if we were all still in murder, death kill mode.

Self defense con.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It just.

The expansion of the sport would not be possible if that's what we were all still doing.

Yeah.

I just, I think people take a little too seriously in a way that it doesn't matter, you know, you're just being too serious about something that.

Why do you care?

Yeah.

I guess I can understand from the extent that maybe you feel like it's affecting your reputation or something like that, but is it?

Yeah, I mean, different schools, different academies, different, like lineages handle ranking differently.

That doesn't mean that they're ruining it compared to us.

It's definitely.

It's something we take into consideration when we're ranking people.

It's like, you know, I don't want to put that person at Purple Bell when everybody in the surrounding area is sandbagging them.

Or like, not that they're sandbagging them, but that, that they're taking years for a certain belt.

Yeah.

We don't want to promote them faster than that and then not be ready for competition.

Yeah.

They're competitors.

Right.

Like, those are things we think about, you know, it doesn't ruin our reputation.

In fact, I rather think the people in our state make our reputation better in a sense.

You know, like they just keep being toxic and we just keep being us.

Yeah.

And that's the thing, like people are going to flock towards their own people.

So if there are people that want to find a Jiu Jitsu gym that is more the old school, self defense, murder, death kill mode, Those still exist.

Go find that.

So many of them exist.

Yeah.

And if you want to find something that can be a good hobby and a safe place and a community and still get really good Jiu Jitsu, whether you're competing or not, those places exist.

Yeah.

I. I just don't understand why we can't all exist together, you know, it can.

If you want to give us a silly name like silly Jiu Jitsu, fine.

You know, like, if you want to make it a sub bracket, I don't care.

American Jiu Jitsu or whatever.

I think in general People feel like they need an enemy, and this is something that comes from, you know, like business and marketing or just politics or whatever.

People think that in order to rally their troops, you have to have an enemy.

And I think that's what it is.

It's just tearing people down so that you can feel superior in some way rather than just realizing that we can exist differently.

Yeah, agreed.

Yeah, man.

One of us should have really chosen Devil's Advocate for this podcast.

We're just really on the same page.

Well, I mean, that's why we're role models, right?

Yeah.

I guess our general philosophy is lift each other up, you know, that is what it is.

We don't need to tear other people down to look higher, you know?

Exactly.

We can all just lift each other up and that's okay.

Yep.

Yeah, exactly.

And keep Jiu Jitsu fun.

Make Jiu Jitsu silly again.

What is it that people say?

It's that whole, like, make Jiu Jitsu whatever again.

Hard again.

Tough again.

Whatever.

You know, Listen, I like my Jiu Jitsu.

People wearing rash guards and being respectful.

Maybe you like them shirtless and mean.

I don't care.

You do.

You.

And we're going to do us.

You.

Yeah, exactly.

And people will find their people.

Yeah, absolutely.

I don't think we need to be so divisive.

Exactly.

Yeah.

All right, well, we're on the same page, you guys let us know what you think, if you disagree.

I think there's room for everyone to have various opinions, but I guess the people who are in the other camp maybe don't think that.

Yeah.

And honestly, that's one of the problems is people feel like they have to tear people down instead of just realizing we can have some different opinions.

Yeah, it can be both ways.

Yeah.

Okay, well, quick camp updates.

What do we got?

Well, when this podcast comes out, we will be just barely over two months away, which is insane.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

We'll get the business track up on the website here soon.

So if you are a business owner of any kind, really, but especially with a Jiu Jitsu business, then you should sign up for the business track.

There's no additional charge for that, but it does give you some masterminding time with other business owners.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's gonna be in the afternoon on.

It's a little in the morning and a little in the afternoon.

It's a change up of the schedule this year.

Remix.

Remix.

There's a lot changing this year.

I'm really excited about camp with Five instructors.

We had to kind of move stuff around and change stuff up a bit.

So lots of Jiu Jitsu, but lots of community time as well.

Yeah.

And we're finalizing the workshops and that sort of thing, so if you're interested in teaching a workshop, please let us know.

We might be doing some roundtables this year.

We're still, like, kind of thinking that out, figuring that piece out.

So if you have a subject you'd like to kind of host a roundtable with, we'd love that.

Also, I just recently listened to a Fighting Matters podcast where they were talking about traditional camps being broken and everything.

They were saying that, like, this is what a camp should be.

I was like, we're doing that.

And then also some other stuff.

I was like, I wish I were a part of this conversation so I could be like, yes, we are doing all these things and more.

Yeah.

I mean, the.

The Jiu Jitsu piece of our camp is awesome.

We have.

This year, we have Beatrice Gin, Adele Fornarino, Danielle Guevara, Rachel Casillas.

Me.

Yes.

Is that five?

Yeah.

Okay.

I just didn't want you to forget yourself.

Yeah.

I was gonna end with me because it seemed like a normal way to be, but I was like, is that four or five?

Yeah.

So we have tons of Jiu Jitsu, but it's beyond the jujitsu.

Jiu Jitsu.

Right.

Like, it is about Jiu Jitsu, but it's also about community, you know?

So there are lots of opportunities to get to hang out with people.

There's a dance party.

There's a lip sync contest.

There's board games.

There's all sorts of things.

There's happy hours.

There's sober equivalent time if you're sober.

So don't worry about that.

There's all sorts of things.

There's kind of something for everybody.

Yeah.

And we raise money for the Alzheimer's foundation, and we collect goods for the local women and children's shelter.

So we're trying to not only be amazing for our community, but for the communities around us as well.

Yeah.

And for the introverts, we're at a hotel, so when you need to go hide, you can just go hide in your room for a bit, which I do sometimes.

Yes.

Highly recommend staying at the hotel.

And you need to book your hotel room.

I think, by June 9th.

I think it's, like, basically one month out.

So make sure that if you haven't already done that, you get on it.

You can find the link to the hotel on our website if you need.

A scholarship, please let us know.

We do have some scholarships left and in fact we would love to have people help us do some setup and tear down type stuff.

So if you cannot afford your camp ticket, please reach out to us.

We would love to have some help.

We had some amazing helpers last year.

So if you were listening and would like to help us, please reach out.

Yes.

You guys were awesome last year.

Our helpers saved us last year.

Cuz you had to have an emergency surgery on the Tuesday before camp and we were so thankful we had all of those amazing people people there helping us.

And so if you would like to be one of those people this year, we definitely will need that again minus any surgeries.

Karma Cap,.

If it's going to be a surgery, it's you.

I'm tapped out.

I've done three in a year and I can't do it.

I'm done too.

I've done enough for the last few years.

Someone else have a surgery.

It's us.

It's not us.

We're out.

And then we have Costa Rica dates, right?

Yes.

I have this cute little guy here that continues to stay on February 10th because that is when our next Costa Rica campus.

I couldn't say it five times.

So Costa Rica camp, February 10th next year and it is already up at Hero BJJ slash retreat slash roll.

I don't know.

We'll put the link.

She forgot the.comhero bjj.com retreats.

Yes.

You get it, you get it.

It's fine.

I'll try to remember to put it in the show notes.

Excellent.

Okay, I think that's it.

Okay, how do we end this thing?

Well, if you're not already subscribed, please do so.

And where can they find us?

Oh yeah, you can find us at Beauty and the Ghee podcast on Instagram for sure.

Kind of Facebook.

Although we're not very active on there.

We're working on it.

We'll get better at being active everywhere.

It's a lot of social media accounts with all the things, so many.

You can also find us at Role Model Grappling if you're looking for information on the community camp.

And I'm AJ Klingerman everywhere you go.

All right.

Don't buy me.

She won't answer.

It's just, I mean, well, yeah.

You mean well, yes, but not really into the social media that much.

So that's it.

Well, until next time, we'll see you on the mat.

Beauty and the GI is a production of the Franklin Doberman podcast company.

And brought to you by Role Model Grappling.

He's shaking the camera.

Yeah.

Hi, stink boy.

Murphy Brown's our cameraman.

He's cuddling with it.

What was I saying?

Oh, we have our cute little guy here that I'm just leaving on February 10th.

Cuz that is when the next Costa.

That is when the next Costa Resta.

Oh, my God.

You say it.

I'm putting these bloopers at the end.

Okay, one more time.