Crystal Jenkins, therapist and director of teacher training at The Hoffman Institute, explores the ways that limiting beliefs and behaviors rooted in childhood hold us back as adults.  

We dive into the Hoffman Process—an 8-day transformational experience that enables participants to recognize and break negative patterns to make empowered choices and go after what they want.  

Crystal shares her personal experience with the Process, and how she was skeptical despite her partner’s encouragement to go through it. A seasoned counselor trained in psychology, she wondered how much this had to teach her. But, just two days in she was looking at everything she thought she knew about herself through a different lens.  

Identifying her childhood wounds, and those of her parents, she moved beyond reacting from historical memories to responding in relationships as a resilient adult. Freed by this new awareness, she broke through her own perceived ceiling of what was possible, went after what she wanted, and achieved her boldest goals.  

We discuss the importance of embracing imperfection, the power of personal responsibility, and the value of checking the stories that drive our choices. “Accept your mistakes,” Crystal says, “learn from them, make amends, and love yourself up!”  

Let her mantra—“I don’t want to miss a thing”—inspire you to claim your next “It Has To Be Me!”  

TESS’S TAKEAWAYS 

• When you live in the past or project into the future, you miss life.  
• Limiting beliefs and behaviors ingrained during childhood can be overcome. 
• Recognizing your childhood wounds and those of your parents improves relationships. 
• Using your voice and expressing opinions is how you let people get to know you. 
• Understanding your emotional triggers enables you to respond rather than react.  
• Relationships are a 50-50 dance of responsibility. Take 100 percent of your 50 percent.  
• Take responsibility, make amends, forgive yourself, learn, and move on.   
• Seize opportunities to do things that are in line with what you want.  

MEET CRYSTAL JENKINS 

Building on experience as a teacher, school counselor, and therapist, Crystal Jenkins became a teacher at The Hoffman Institute. Since 2017, she’s been the Institute’s Director Of Teacher Training.   

Crystal specializes in guiding individuals through transformative personal development journeys.  

Known for her compassionate and intuitive approach, she helps participants gain more self awareness, and confront and heal patterns rooted in their pasts, in order to replace negative behavioral cycles with healthier and more empowering perspectives.  

Beyond her work at Hoffman, Crystal enjoys spending time outdoors with her family and friends. An avid sports fan, she rarely misses a day of checking the scores of her favorite teams.  

CONNECT WITH THE HOFFMAN INSTITUTE 

The Hoffman Institute: https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/ 

The Hoffman Process book: https://www.amazon.com/Hoffman-Process-World-Famous-Technique-Transform/dp/0553382764/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hoffmaninstitute 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hoffmanprocess/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/hoffmaninstitute 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hoffman-institute-foundation-ba90863b/ 

Meet Tess Masters:  

Tess Masters is an actor, presenter, health coach, cook, and author of The Blender Girl, The Blender Girl Smoothies, and The Perfect Blend, published by Penguin Random House. She is also the creator of The Decadent Detox® and Skinny60® health programs.     

Health tips and recipes by Tess have been featured in the LA Times, Washington Post, InStyle, Prevention, Shape, Glamour, Real Simple, Yoga Journal, Yahoo Health, Hallmark Channel, The Today Show, and many others.   

Tess’s magnetic personality, infectious enthusiasm, and down-to-earth approach have made her a go-to personality for people of all dietary stripes who share her conviction that healthy living can be easy and fun. Get delicious recipes at TheBlenderGirl.com.  

Connect With Tess: 

Website: https://tessmasters.com/  

Podcast Website: https://ithastobeme.com/   

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theblendergirl/  

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theblendergirl/  

Twitter: https://twitter.com/theblendergirl  

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/theblendergirl  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessmasters/  

Get Healthy With Tess 

Skinny60®: https://www.skinny60.com/  

Join the 60-Day Reset: https://www.skinny60.com/60-day-reset/ 

The Decadent Detox®: https://www.thedecadentdetox.com/  

Join the 14-Day Cleanse: https://www.thedecadentdetox.com/14-day-guided-cleanses/ 

The Blender Girl: https://www.theblendergirl.com/  

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I am so excited to be talking with my dear friend Crystal Jenkins. Crystal is an amazing therapist and director of teacher training at the Hoffman Institute in North America. So you may have seen the Hoffman Process Book. You may know someone who's gone through the Hoffman process. You may have gone through it yourself. I have a lot of friends and colleagues that have gone through it, and every single person tells me how absolutely life changing it is. So I met Crystal years ago when I was living in Springfield, Missouri, and my friend Chris and I went up to Kansas City to have lunch with crystal and her partner. Dr, Michelle Robin, you may remember from Episode Seven. Dr, Michelle and I had an amazing conversation about her four quadrants of well being and and tips for healthy living, and she was always sharing these crystallisms in that interview, nuggets of wisdom that she got from her partner, Crystal. And I promise to have Crystal on the podcast, and you are going to get a taste today of just the incredible insights that she has about human behavior, and she has taught me so much over the years about the importance of personal responsibility and boundaries and understanding why you do what you do in order to be present in relationship with yourself and others. Wow, I'm just excited to dive in. So let's get the skinny from Crystal Jenkins crystal, I am so excited to have this conversation with you, because I always have the best conversations with you in our personal life. So we'll just sort of give everybody a little sneak peek into this. So I want to start with one of your big it has to be me moments like, how did you go from being a teacher, PE teacher and a coach to saying, it has to be me. I'm going to be a therapist, you may counsel.

You know, I think always working on teams and being in the education field. You know, I'm constantly, I was constantly working with people. I was constantly trying to deal with human behavior and figure out, you know, how can we all work together for a common goal? So human behavior has always been an interest of mine. And, you know, once I became a counselor in the school district, I thought that I had met my ceiling. I thought, oh my gosh, this is the best job ever, because I get my summers off, because most people who know me know that if I don't have to work when the sun is shining, that would be the best thing ever. But anyway, you know, being in the school district gave me the ability to work with folks and work with human behavior and be involved in sports, which was in my wheelhouse, and it fit my schedule.

And so how did you make the transition from being a counselor in a school to then starting a private practice?

You know, unfortunate trail of events for the school district is they got themselves into a bit of a what would you call on Australia a bit of a issue, I don't know, but it came down to they needed to settle as a lawsuit with with someone else, and to settle that, yeah, to settle that lawsuit with another employee, they pretty much said, What job would you like in the district?

Wow,

their choice was to have my job and and I did have one school, a brand new school, a great principal, great, I mean, everything I could have stayed there forever and on that very special day when they came knocking on the door and said, Hey, we're going to take your job, but we're going to give you any job in The district that you want. And this is like an advancement. We're going to move you forward. And I thought at that moment, I thought, wait a minute, you're going to you want me to do the same thing to someone else that you're doing to me, and I'm not up for that, that that nothing about that is in line with my values. And quite honestly, I needed a pretty big nudge to get out of doing the same old, same old, happy, comfortable. But I had always had a thing in the back of my mind that said, Gosh, what would it really be like to be in private practice, being a counselor out on your own, but gosh, it felt like such a big leap. But on that day, the universe kind of just dropped in my lap. This, this values, moral choice of, wait a minute, I'm not doing this. I'm not staying here and doing to someone else. What's. Been done with me because it feels awful.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. What you were saying about you thought you'd hit your ceiling, yeah, and that you needed a nudge, yeah? So, you know this, this is such a it's such a common thing with with a lot of us, right? I mean, I can think of lots of instances where I've needed that nudge, and a turn of events has actually forced me to go where I needed to go, you know, and to get into something else. So, you know, it's interesting, if we're thinking about it has to be me, right? Sometimes we do need that extra nudge, right? So you went into private practice, yeah. And so what was that like for you when you what was the next ceiling?

You know, initially, I was scared shitless. Yeah, I had no business sense. I had I worked in a system that held each other. You got paid whether you really worked or not. I mean, it's, it's a very beautiful held system in in the school districts, and for the very first time, I'm stepping out on my own, having to hustle. So I took a business class, and I did a bunch of things that I was deficient in in knowledge about and hung a shingle and started a private practice, and it was slow, and I think maybe during a week I might see three people, wow. So it was, it was really hard. It was incredibly hard, but I knew it's what I really wanted to do. But at some point in time, in this this timeline of mine, I had met somebody that I wanted to be in relationship with. And so the the interesting part of that story is that this relationship had a little bit of a requirement, and that was for me to go do this transformational week called the Hoffman process. And me being in psychology and counseling, I'm thinking, Oh, how hard can this be? This? I already know what this is like. Sure, I'll go and about So wait,

let me go back a second. So Michelle said, if we're going to make it, I need you to go and do the

Hoffman process, pretty much, pretty much.

So how did you receive that? This is what I need you to do if we're going to be in relation. You

know, I think at the time, because it was so fresh and so new, and we'd only been seeing each other for about three or four months. I was in that yummy, yeah, let's do this.

I'll do anything. Yeah. I'll

do anything. Yeah. You know, it was in the area of psychology and behavioral health and and that lined up. It's not like he asked me to go do something I had no interest in. So piece one was being in relationship with her, which I was really interested in, and was she's asking me to do something that fits, I mean

it, when you also thought it was going to be a cake walk, right? Well, how

hard can it be? I've been a counselor for 14 years in the school district. I know some stuff, you know? I'm thinking, well, can't be that hard and and

so what was it like for you? Oh,

two days into it, I'm standing out in the woods in Santa Cruz, going, Was I that bad? Was there something really wrong with me? I thought I was being I thought it and here's, this is key. I thought I was being easy to get along with. I thought I was peaceful. I thought I was grounded. I thought I was all these things, and I had to go do this to disrupt that. So the first thing that I stepped into was, what's wrong with me. I was doing everything for you so that you would think I was okay, so that you would love me. So, you know? And so day four, five and six, I started to really understand that, that just going through life, and I wasn't flatlined, but I was, I was doing more than anybody else in my family had ever done. I was drawing a paycheck. I was happy I was going to the lake, but that my my kind of minimizing my gifts or my wants or my needs, or even having a voice, was really holding me back. Mm. And by the end of the week, I had such more understanding of my compulsive behaviors that kept me small, that kept me invisible, that kept me doing things for other people, that where I didn't have a voice. I was so much more aware of how that was holding me back versus buying me love.

Ooh, okay, so tell me a little bit more about you minimizing yourself.

It could be simple, simple, something as simple as, hey, where do you want to go for dinner? I don't care wherever you want to

go. Ah, okay.

Oh, yeah, you know I I pretty much didn't even know what I needed, because I didn't ask. Oh,

tell me about that

you did. I'm going to guess there's a lot of your viewers have never stopped long enough even ask what what do you what's most important to you? What do you need? What do you love? And not because it trumps someone else, not because it's more important than someone else there tended, tends to be kind of a checks and balances, like whose needs are more important than other needs. And if I'm believing that the reason that people love me is because I'm easy to get along with, or that I'm fun to be around, or I don't I, you know that I don't confront things, or I'm I'm not hard, or I'm not angry, then this easiness becomes common. It's a little bit like how I get love. Well, it's very much like how I get love,

yeah. Um,

so tell me about

the disruption that you talked about when you said that, that that was disrupted, that that sort of sense of order, or the way that you had been used to moving through the world, was disrupted in that well,

yeah, I think what I what I learned at the process, is that as as peaceful As that felt to me, as as easy as it felt to me, then I was always going to end up getting the same relationships, the same jobs, the same same old, same old. So there was never going to be anything more. So the disruption was more of understanding that no actually people need you to stand up and have a voice and have an opinion, because that way they actually get to know you.

Ooh. So when you were doing the process this whole thing of when you use your voice. It starts with permission, right? So giving yourself permission to use your voice, giving yourself permission to voice what you need. How did the Hoffman process teach you that?

Well, the you know the process is, is a week long, experiential. Transformational week of looking at what are your limiting thoughts, beliefs, behaviors, attitudes that actually you learn consciously or unconsciously in childhood to survive the system to get love. It's what you adapted to as a child, so that you got love and belonging or safety and security and those limiting beliefs during that week. Once they're exposed, and I came eye to eye and face to face, I could see that, gosh, my life could actually be so much more. And not that it was bad, but one of the disruptions of my life is that I wasn't ever able to stay in a relationship. I mean, you know, I had, I had a great job, I had great friends, I had a shit ton of fun. You know, I was the person that you want a good time. Let's let's go hang out with crystal and have a good time. But I could not stay in a relationship because me being easy, me being just this peaceful, grounded, fun person to get along with. I wasn't ever asking for what I really needed or what I really wanted, and pretty soon, resentment inside of me would build up because this person wasn't giving me all those things. And I'm like, Well, you're not asking, right? So read my mind, which they can't and then the next thing you know, I'm looking elsewhere, because this has gotten. And as boring as I was, right?

So it's so interesting, you know, that we, we, we do make those assumptions that other people know what we want and we're not asking for it. You know, we go into this shorthand in our mind, and then we do have all of this resentment when our needs aren't being met. So talk me through exactly what the Hoffman process looks like. So you, you agree to go and do it for this week, yeah, and then what happens?

Well, you agree to not you agree to check in your phone, check in your computer, and essentially, unless there's an emergency, you're not going to have contact with the outside world for a week, for a week, and you know, you're you're focused on, what are the limiting beliefs, behaviors, ideas that you have in your in your head, about how you fit in the world, what you need to be in the world. And we call these negative patterns. So it's your it's your go to where you end up creating the same scenarios over and over again, whether it's in your job, your relationship, the relationship with yourself, how you treat yourself. But we look at the four aspects of yourself in those areas of your intellect, your emotional self, your body, and then this amazing spirit that you have inside of you that you've lost touch with. So the week is all about identifying where those compulsive, automatic behaviors, beliefs, attitudes, where they really come from, and we really focus on your primary caregivers, looking at whoever served as your parental figures. So who did you have to become? How did you have to adapt in that system, depending on everything that was going on for them, and then from that place is learning how to move that out of you and go back to the authentic resource self of who you are, which is what you know we call your spiritual self, and what's so vision for your life. So, okay,

right? So you get to that. And so it's interesting. Again. I don't know why. It's just so resonating with me. When you said before that, I thought that was my ceiling. Yeah, you know, like we hear this term bantered about, let's break the glass ceiling, let's do all of this. And so intellectually, I understand what that looks like in someone else's life, or, you know, in politics or in, you know, entertainment or whatever. But it's sort of as I'm listening to you. It's sort of going, it's sort of resonating with me going, Oh, I'm not actually sure if, on a regular basis, I'm checking in with the ceilings that I'm placing on my own potential or my own dreams or my own desires, you know. So So what does it look like on a practical level when you're there? When you say we we delve into this, we help you see you know how you had to adapt, and we help you make a vision for your life moving forward, once you connect with you know what you really want. What does that look like on a practical level, is it? Is it a bunch of workshops? Do you sit in circle in a group and talk things out, like, what does it look like?

You know, it's not group therapy. We absolutely will tell you straight away, this is not a therapeutic process. This is an experiential week. So everybody who comes is there to do their own work. You're just doing it in a group of 40 people. So it's not people sitting around telling their stories and everybody talking about what they think you should do with those stories. It's we're not there to give you our opinion. We're not there to walk you down paths that we think you should go. It's truly your process, your journey of uncovering what are the limiting beliefs, what are the patterns that are holding you back in your all the areas of your life, and then we walk you through these experiences where you almost dig up what's underneath there. It's emotional. It's the emotional connection to what happened in childhood in your life, and how sometimes we're meeting our lives as five year olds, as 10 year olds, trying to solve big, complex problems. But the the emotional trigger of those problems takes us back to a trigger from our childhood, and we can't meet them as an adult. Ooh. So

God, these are big emotional concepts, so it's sort of mind blowing. To me that you can, I'm going to use the word process, because it's the Hoffman process that in seven days. Yeah, that's kind of mind blowing to me. It

is my Yeah, and if you'll talk to anybody, I mean, you know this, the thing is, is people come in and wherever they get at the end of the week is different for everyone, depending on on what their intention and and how much they uncover. But it's an emotional week, and we Yeah, I mean, I would say, yeah. And during the week, there's probably 115 different what we call presentations or pieces or what. So we're keeping you busy the whole entire time, turning things up, turning it over, looking at it and getting to the place of self love, of choice, of responding versus reacting, so that when you walk out at the end of the week, you authentically know who you are, and not from more of an intellectual place, but more from a place of ground that that now I can walk out in the world, I can make some choices, and not from a place of it being the perfect choice, but more of the place of it being the right choice right Now, and being able to meet it from presence, being able to meet and dance with life versus having a strategy at the end of the week. Oh, I

like that. Dance with life as opposed to having a strategy and responding as opposed to reacting. Tell me more about the this empowering ourselves, to free ourselves from that reactionary dynamic. You know, how, how does the Hoffman process open that up for people? I mean, I would assume, just like you said it, it's very dependent on how much you surrender to the process, what your intention is, how present you want to be with what's coming up for you.

Yeah, and I would say, you know, most people who come are at that place in their life where they really do want change. You know, they they don't want to do the same thing over and over again. I mean, consider that folks are giving up a week of their life. It's a big freaking deal for them to check in their phones, you know? So they're, they're ready when they walk through the door. And prior to, prior to showing up, they do 40 pages of homework to you know, we say the process really starts when the homework enters their portal and they start filling out identifying patterns and identifying what's going on in air, all the areas of their life. So they they really start diving deep the minute that they get all the process homework, but So, right? So

you're talking about when you when you apply, when you say, I'm going to come and do this week, and you schedule in the week, because I know a process starts every week of the year, pretty much, right? So you have already decided I want change. I want to look at this stuff. I want to really understand myself better. And then you get this 40 pages of homework prior to showing up to your break.

Yeah, so you know, you consider that the the environment and everything is right. You've said yes, you've you've closed off all of the distractions of our lives, phone being number one, and you've committed to doing this work for the whole week, all about you. You've got a group of 40 people, or 39 other people that are there for the same exact reasons from all economic and diverse. I mean, it's, it's so here we are, and we're going to do this together, but not sharing each other's stories, unless you that's what you choose to do on the off time. But the movement during the week is emotional, it's experiential, it's spiritual, from your own spiritual intuition and what's true for you, and it's an embodiment. So we get your bodies moving. The question that most people ask is exactly what you're asking, Is that tell me what I'm going to do? Yeah, such an intellectual question, because it's strategy driven. Just tell me. So how do I get to a and. If I have E, then I'm going to have C. That's usually the first thing that we have to break the pattern of the intellectual need to know, okay, what are all the steps? How does this happen? Building more trust in I'm going to meet whatever we're doing with presence. I'm going to put my toe in the water and see what happens for me, what comes true for me, with curiosity, and what's my next step.

So I want to ask you about this, this presence factor, yeah, because you and I have spoken in the past about, you know, the thing that holds most people back is either being in the past or being in the future instead of being present with what is right now. So tell me about about the deprogramming, so to speak, that happens around that. Because, you know, I do much better with that now staying present, like you and I are talking right now, and there is nothing else in the world except Except this. But I have to consciously redirect myself, you know, in other parts of my life to stay present, because my natural inclination, typically is to obsess about the past or project into the future, right? So I'm doing much better with it as I get older. But, but there is, there is that natural programming so, so tell me more about that. Well,

it is our natural way of being in the world or operating in the world, because our brains are hard wired for that. You know, our brains naturally look at what's happened in the past. There's a neural pathway, and we just keep doing that over and over again and then preparing for the same thing to happen in the future. So it, you know, in many ways, it's very survival. Ask, it's, how do I survive and make sure that this never happens again? Or this was really good, how can I ensure that this is going to happen in the future? So, but if you're living in those two places, and if this was a scale from one to 10, and you're either living back here in the past, making sure that, Oh, my God, I'm not going to create that again. I gotta be aware, and I gotta be prepared. Gotta be prepared. Gotta figure it out. And then I jump over here to the future of projection of, well, this is how it's gonna be. And I know this is gonna happen because it happened back here. You've missed life. Yeah. I mean, life is, if that's one, this is 10, and this is perfection. We're trying to get it perfect because so we don't hurt, or say we don't suffer, and and, you know, life is here between, really, eight and two. Yeah, here, here comes the day to day, things that if you were just pray in the qualities of being. We talk a lot about being, I'm here, I'm grounded, I'm centered, I'm trusting, I'm I'm peaceful, whatever, and I'm meeting life as it comes, pausing. Checking in with myself, also recognizing that I'm going to make mistakes, also being vulnerable. Then, you know, then when I do mess up, or I do fall down, the time between down in the dirt and getting back up is shorter, because from that place I can dust myself off, forgive myself, learn something from it, and get up and meet life again.

So in terms of forgiving yourself and meeting life again, do would you classify that as resilience? Would you put that under that umbrella? Or do you see that as being different?

Well, I think the practice, I think it's it's it's, we're not going to do it all the time, and in fact, you know, sometimes in my life, I suck at it. You know, I can realize,

Oh, my God,

laugh weeks where I'm going, Anna, you're pretty resentful. You're You're but you know, understanding that that's part of the human condition too, is that we're not perfect and right, and that it doesn't mean anything about me. It doesn't mean that I'm a bad person. It doesn't mean that that I suck it, you know, to forego all those nasty words that we call ourselves. But to, you know, go to this part that says, Wow, that was hard. I. I was really hard and I messed up. So I'm going to circle back and make amends. I'm going to figure out what happened for me that pushed me over the edge of doing those things, and I'm going to love myself back standing up. That's the only way that we get back up and grounded, is to love ourselves up, beating ourselves down, is you're not going anywhere. You're going to just stay down in the hole.

Yeah, I want to ask you about this, this space where we recognize that our primary caregivers, our mother, our and father or whatever, relatives, etc. And you talked before about how you got to adapt, how you adapted in order to be loved or in order to survive. And, you know, unconsciously,

I mean, we just naturally do it. Yeah, right, right.

So you know that space of becoming aware of the family dynamic you know, and your family of origin and all of that sort of stuff, and they're not staying in that place where you blame them or you blame yourself, but just being aware of what happened and then moving into that area of personal responsibility where you say, I'm aware that this is how it formed, and what am I going to do about it? So just talk me through how you see that that progression, or how we hold all of that in balance?

Well, I mean, there's language that we would use after the process to be able to pull that apart. But just for I think the normal where we are right now is, I do think that every relationship, whether it's with your parents and your adults as dealing with your parents and is or with the people that you're in relationship with. It's a 5050, dance and responsibility of how it goes. So I think that you need the first step for me is, I'm going to take 100% of my 50 what, what got triggered in me that I may have not shown up the way that I intended to show up. Where did How old was I in this in this relationship? So I'm looking at what piece did I bring to that that I need to figure out on my own. But then, you know, I'm also looking at the other person that I'm in relationship with. And sometimes, you know, when, when I went back, when I went to do the process, originally, there was some things with my parents that, because I was pretty passive and and did never speak up and had no confrontation, I didn't confront a lot of stuff with my mom and dad. Um, I'm an only child, and so that that was not safe as a little kid to confront stuff with my parents, right? So as an adult, how I had to get through a lot of that with them was to picture them as little kids and what it must have been like for them in their childhoods. Ooh. Okay,

so talk to me about seeing the childhood wounding in your parents, because it's such a huge piece of being able to be in relationship with your parents as adults,

yeah, and and with anybody that you love and care about. You know what I always look at whatever it is that I'm struggling with and have a hard time struggle. I mean, you know, trying to get right with they've got a whole bag from their historical wounding from their childhood that they are too, yeah, and it's a good chance that I trigger something for them that takes them back to being a little kid. And I'm not meaning to do that, but I mean, I could walk in a room and I look like somebody from their past, or I speak from that, and it just doesn't matter, but just the awareness that there's something that happened for them, that they're guarded, they're defensive. They create a story because of not feeling loved or belonged or is something that that's very old and historical for them. If I can connect to that about this other person, my parents, being the people we're talking about, I was much more able to be with them and not be so critical and judgmental and and needing them to change so that I could be okay. Mm. It didn't mean they still didn't drive me crazy, because they did. They just drove me freaking crazy. But I also understood that something Something happened to them as little kids too. Yeah,

yeah. I want to ask you about this idea of the stories that we tell ourselves, and the narratives that we we run with that are convenient for us in order to, you know, play out whatever version you know serves us in that moment. How does that change through the process? When you take on that personal responsibility, you see the childhood woundings of your parents or the person you might be in relate romantic relationship or siblings or whatever. How? How do we identify stories that we are constellating around and recognizing that they don't serve us? Or, you know, in this particular moment?

Well, I think the minute that I am sure that I know what somebody's thinking, doing, feeling, and I know their intentions, I mean, the very second that I have come up with I've made an assumption about what's driving their behavior. Yeah, that's a story and what it says about me. I mean, you know, we do it all the time, and I mean, it's probably something that that goes on in the narrative in our heads, because we're constantly evaluating, do I measure up? Do I not measure up? Am I am i Enough? Am I not? I mean, I went to an event the other night and walked in and all these people are dressed up. It's, you know, me, I was a little out of water here, but I did have a dress on, but, but I'm what I know. It can happen. But I'm walking in, and I immediately go into story in my head about, oh, my God, they're looking at me, going, Oh, those shoes, that was not the right thing, or that I look yeah. So it's as simple as that. And then we take people's they walk by us and didn't say anything. Then I can create a story. See, I really, I'm not their person, yeah, but I think we do it all the time. Oh, I

do it all the time. That's why the Four Agreements, for me, that was a life changing. It's not about you don't take it personally, you know. Um,

so how do how do you consciously redirect yourself in the moment when you feel that narrative or that story bubbling up in you that's leading you into this place of paranoia or making assumptions about other people?

I had a hard time, and you know the typical thing that I will go do, which I'm sure many of your listeners will align with this, is I'll go get a cocktail.

That is sort of not what I thought you were going to say to me. I'll just get a cocktail.

Or I'll go talk to somebody I know. I'll just go, Oh, I'll go find somebody I know that I can, like, hang out through with the

ego already loves you,

right, right, right. Okay, just hang on to Michelle. The whole entire time

I've seen you do that. I do that.

No, it's so compulsive and automatic and it's so quick and it's really, really hard to get out of when you're in it,

yes,

but just the awareness that that's typically what I do, I'm a little bit more prepared to find moments to go to the bathroom and just kind of recenter myself. Yeah, you know, I'm a big fan of, remember Amy Cuddy that wrote the book on the power pose, or the super pose. I'm a big fan of that of just, alright, let's get it. Put your shoulders back to stand up tall and breathe, and you're making some assumptions, yeah, is this really true? And then, you know, I usually try and check in with my my spirit self or my higher self, and ask myself, okay, what do I need right now to get through this? I've decided to be here. I want to make the best of it. And I've got a little mantra that's going on in my life right now is I really don't want to miss a thing, you know? I want to be present. That I don't want to miss anything. I've gotten to the age of my life where I'm looking backwards enough to say that. There's some things that I didn't know I was doing for the very last time, and that pisses me off.

So, yeah, I

don't want to continue to make that mistake. So I'm here. I've chosen to do this. I'm I don't want to miss anything about it. Yeah,

no, I love that I have chosen to do this. I don't want to miss it. Yeah, because I will be really honest. I sometimes I'm quite socially awkward around strangers, and I will often just get quite uncomfortable, and I'll leave. I will, I will just go home. You know, I know I will have only been there for seven minutes or something. I was good. No, no, this isn't for me. People are, you know, judging me like exactly what you were talking about. I

mean, we all do it, and everybody handles it differently.

So, yeah, I mean, just I do, like what you were saying before, about how old was I in relationship with that person. How old was I choosing to be in that moment? Was that my five year old interacting with that person? Was that my 10 year old interacting with that person? Or, you know, because I do, I do think that's very valuable, right? So is, is that something that you consciously think about, if you're reflecting on an interaction with somebody, is that something, you know, how do you when you talk about practice, how do you consciously practice that?

Yeah, so if my if, here's the stimulus and my response is way out of bounds, you know, it's like I reacted really bigger than the actual incident that happened. Then I know that it's old, and then I know it's historical.

Ooh, yeah, so that's your yard stick,

yeah, that's my yardstick. Um, you

have a spectacular of reaction to something.

Um, sometimes the event that's happened, I think that it matches very well, and a lot of times when it doesn't, then I'm asking myself, How old did I feel in that moment?

Oh, that's useful. How old did I feel in that moment?

Yeah, and then my next question usually is, when did I When have I felt this way before my childhood?

Yeah, I think my seven year old, like, enters lots of conversations. As you're talking to me, I'm thinking, Yeah,

I think my seven year old is alive and kicking. Go ahead and now just ask the question, then, how did you feel in that moment with in that interaction with that person? What? What feeling did that evoke about you? Yeah.

I mean, I think that the the sentence that comes up is, you don't understand me. Okay? And

when you were a kid, did you sometimes feel like people didn't understand you?

Yeah, yeah,

for sure. Gosh, that's really useful. That's really useful. Wow. So, wow. Okay, so you, you went and did this Hoffman process. It was life changing for you. It was, yes, I mean, as it is, for every person I know that's ever done it, I'm going to do it next year. I'm so excited, yeah, um, everyone says, like, 10 years of therapy and one week, you know? But just, it's so it's so illuminating, and the self awareness and the tools and all the things. So how did we go from I went, I went and did Hoffman because Michelle told me I needed to go to, you're the head of teacher training for North America. I mean, that's that talk about taking to something like a duck to water. So how did you go from doing the process to working as a teacher trainer and then becoming the head of teacher training? Talk me through that series of it has to, you

know, it's just a it's such a great example of the that limiting belief that I had about myself that I didn't even know was going on. You made the ceiling the ceiling. I had no idea. I thought, because, you know, I was doing as well as anybody in my life. Yeah. So there's my my test is that, oh, I'm good. I'm this is great. But I got to end of that week. And I came home and I walked in the door, I'll never forget it. And Michelle goes, so tell me, how was it? And I without even thinking about it, I just simply said, I can do that. And she says, What do you mean? You can do that? And I said, I that resonates for me. I can do that, you know? And she's the most. Positive, supportive. She goes, I believe you. I mean, it also takes somebody in your court going absolutely instead of going, Are you crazy? You can do what? Yeah, but no, and I, I had no reason to think that was true. I'd never done that before. I'd never been in that type environment. It was not therapy, it i And I discovered things about myself that I'd never looked at before. So I just came home, and so then the self doubt and the ceiling comes back a few days later, and I told myself, everybody must say that when they go home, everybody must want to be a teacher. So I minimized. I went back to my old pattern of just minimizing, not a big deal whatever. And at that point in time, they weren't training teachers. They were only training teachers about every 10 year cycle. And I put my name in and said, If you ever do a teacher training, let me know. And I did start the grad group in Kansas City. So I took steps. I was taking some steps, yeah, and then 10 years later, I guess 10 years later, 10 years I get a phone call from the institute, and I happen to be doing a workshop in Kauai for a friend of mine. And I almost missed, yeah, Sonia, you're right. I almost missed the deadline to submit, but I got there in the last 24 hours, submitted it, and I got accepted. But during the interview process, you know, they kind of voted people off the island. It was a weird anyway, so my last exit interview before they sent me home was Raz and grassy, who is the head of the Hoffman Institute at the time, and another teacher. And all of a sudden they asked me two last questions. One was, if you could have any job, you know, you know, if you got here and you were actually a part of our community, what would be the job you'd want? And again, I said something totally crazy. And I said, I want to be the Director of all this

talk about everything

teacher training, that's what I want. And I walked out the door, got in the car, and I thought, you are such an idiot. What were you thinking? Wow, and say that. I mean, it was so out of left field and, you know, but I mean,

what was it in you that when it has to be me, I'm speaking up. I'm asking for what I want. I'm not minimizing. I'm ripping off the ceiling. I mean, there was clearly something inside of you that was churning

well, and it was, and I gave it a voice, which is, you know, there's a lot of things that churn, but to speak it is one is a whole different ball game. And to speak it to people who it meant something too. So I got the job as a teacher, and I taught. And eight years ago, I think it's been eight years ago, the director teacher training had just resigned pretty quickly, and I got a phone call from Liza, who is the CEO of the Institute. She says, We need somebody to step in and take this person's place and finish out this training group. Would you be interested? And I went, sure. No idea, but sure I'll do that. And I got the job. I got the job about six months later, for real, and I've been doing it ever since.

It is such an extraordinary example of don't ask, don't get, you know, and giving voice to what you want, even if you don't quite understand where it's coming from. Is that a good way to say to say

no. I mean, if you look at where I started, I mean, you know, I'm a Midwest kid. Parents didn't graduate from college. They were pretty blue call, you know, they were blue collar workers. I thought being a volleyball coach and an elementary PE teacher was the max of what I was going to do. And then it was bonus round when I became a counselor, right? And then for me to have the job that I have at and I got that job at 50. So that's another big tell. It's like, Wait a minute. It doesn't stop you. Don't stop asking and looking for things that that are aligned with you when you get to be a certain age. I mean, at 50 years old, I signed up to become a teacher, yeah, so no, there's no way that my younger self would have had any idea that this would have been my future. And it's incredible. I. And I'm still with that person that that told me that I should go do the process. So here we are, 25 years later, and I finally stayed in a relationship.

So Wow. I mean life changing on so many levels, pretty cool, so many levels, so

and I get to meet cool people like you.

I know it's just so such a gift in my life. For sure. Want to ask you about what you I know I keep, I keep coming back to this place of the ceiling, just because I just think it's so useful, because we've all got a ceiling, a perceived Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah, perceived ceiling. And so what was it in you? I mean, at that point, you done Hoffman, but what was it in you that just went, I'm I'm going beyond this. Like, I'm actually going to give myself permission. I did you just want it really badly. Like, what was it in you? That kind of fight? You know, listen to that. It has to be me moment. And went, Yeah, I want this. I'm going after it. I'm going to keep asking. Because you have told me the story about how you just kept asking. You kept putting your hat in the ring. Those 10 years, you didn't just sit by and wait for it to come to you. You were asking, Well,

I think that, you know, a couple things happened. It wasn't happening fast. So it's not as if I could throw my ring a hat in the ring and then get turned down or disappointed, you know. So it was a little bit safe, and I needed, I needed. I needed that. You know, if I would have gotten told no, or if something wouldn't have worked out, I don't know how I would have met it. I mean, I would assume that I've ended up exactly where it's sliding doors I'm going to end up at this place. It may have looked a whole lot different, but I think that it happened slow. The other thing is, because I spoke it out loud, and I was not necessarily fixated on it, but I talked about it. I mean, Michelle and I would talk about it all the time, I then started doing more things in line with that vision. So I really did step into the Hoffman grad group. And I was doing workshops for Sonia and in kawaii, Sonia and cookie and my private practice grew. So when my private practice grew, I talked about Hoffman a lot to my clients, yes. So it's as if I was like, here's here's the wide vision. I'm going this direction. I have no idea what it looks like, but I really want to end up there, and I'm just going to keep saying yes to things that are in line with that vision.

Oh, I love that. I love that because it, it doesn't, it doesn't happen quickly. Really, is a slow progression, really, and even, even when you perceive that it does happen quickly, you you, when you look back, you realize you've been working towards it and doing things that are in line with that vision for many years. If we, we, if we track anybody's trajectory with things, you know, and when we start connecting those dots, we can see that. So, oh, gosh. I mean, I love this idea of having a vision, deciding that you want something, and then doing things that are in line with that vision. So what's next for you? Then?

Well, I'm trying to decrease my private practice so that that it frees up some more time. Hoffman Institute is growing, you know, we, I

mean, it's an international phenomenon. Well,

you know, it's, we're in, we're in 13 different countries. But, you know, there's institutes in those countries, United States, we're growing. We now are running the Canadian process, but no, I think that our outreach Hoffman wise, of working with people who can't afford it. I mean, it's endless the people that I get to work with and the people that I get to meet. It doesn't get any better than this. So I

mean, I know that you absolutely love what you do, and you know every week would be completely different, wouldn't it, depending on the soup, the the people that are in the group and the teachers. That are there that week. And you know, it's just a completely different melting.

We don't ever teach with the same teachers over and over again, so it's always a fresh group of people. Sometimes I teach six process to eight processes a year, if I'm not training, and then other times I might teach less. So there's just so many opportunities and and new things to and people to me, yeah, what?

What are you? What are you?

What have you learned about yourself the most being a teacher trainer at Hoffman all of these years beyond what you learned in that initial week.

Gosh, big question. You know what? What I've learned about people is, is where we're we're not that complicated.

Tell me about Tell me about that. Well,

you know, we have complicated stories. We have we have complicated emotions. But for the most part, we all just want the same thing and that is to feel love and belonging and to have a sense of freedom in our lives, to show up as our true selves, and we all have spirit. What I've learned about myself is you, I'll tell you what, what I so more than anything, I just feel so blessed and lucky and appreciative of finding something that I was meant to do.

That is a very, very good feeling, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

I know there's a lot of people who search endlessly to find find their thing and and this, this just feels like a god job for me.

Oh, yeah, I know you love it, yeah. Oh, isn't that great? So wonderful. But so what have you learned about yourself? Besides, I meant to do this. Is my calling,

that I still struggle. You know that that's still that 879, 10 year old kid still struggles with being seen and confronting and having a voice, and it's okay. Yeah, that's okay.

I do love that. Yeah, I still, I'm still struggling with that thing, and it's okay. That's all right. That's a big piece of it. I love what you were saying before that there's nothing wrong with

you, no, and, and I do know that if there comes a big ticket item, if something does come my way, and I need to find that I got it.

What does the ceiling look like for you now that you've realized you can go so far beyond what you thought you deserved or could have, or now that you've gone way beyond that. What is it? What does that look like? Now, you

know, I think it looks like a life of balance, a life of having all of it, you know, life of having this great, meaningful, purposeful work, a life of having all the friends that I love and care about that really align with me, that we that it's not quantity, it's quality. It also is being in a loving, committed relationship that I feel solid and respected and grounded in. It's it's all the things as a little kid that I dreamed of would make a perfect life, that I don't have to give up anything.

Oh, well, I love that I'm living the dream life, and I don't have to give up anything.

But, I mean, but the realization is perfect, perfect, I don't know what the hell that is. Even is. Well, there is

no such thing as perfect. It's, yeah,

it's a whole life. It's a it's a full, abundant life, yeah, with qualities of qualities of being,

yeah, I love that. So I and you don't want to miss a thing. I couldn't break into an Aerosmith song right now. So I always close. Every episode with the same question, which is for somebody listening right now who has a dream in their heart and doesn't feel like they have what it takes to make it happen. What would you say to them?

I'd tell them to close their eyes, put their hands on their heart and take a deep breath. And then I would ask them, what are the qualities of being that you would need to embody, to have that? Would you need to be peaceful? Would you need to be grounded? Would you need to be resilient? What are all those qualities that you would need in yourself to have that? And now, once you have those, I would write them down, and every morning I would get up, put your hands on your heart, take a deep breath and say, I am, boom, boom, boom, boom, and I would walk in the world as if they were happening. And then you will walk your way down that road

and do things that are in alignment with

that vision. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. Oh,

thank you so much. I again, always feel like a plant that's been watered whenever we talk. It's amazing. And I'm excited to do the Hoffman process next.

I'm excited for you to do it too. You know, there's never any pressure, you just do it whenever it

No it's the right time. I'm so excited. So thank you so much. I love you. Thanks.

Thank you. I love you.

Oh, lots to think about from that conversation. It was interesting when she was talking about how we minimize ourselves and have perceived ceilings for what we're capable of, and the dreams that we're allowed to have, and the importance of using your voice, that people need you to stand up and have an opinion, because that's how they get to know you, and the value of understanding your childhood woundings and the stories and narratives and patterns of behavior that you learned as a child in order to survive and be loved and feel safe, and how by understanding those things, we empower ourselves to respond as adults, instead of react from our childhood woundings and be in relationship and be present with ourselves and others as adults, not children, that really resonated with me, and this idea of perfection being something that we do so that we don't get hurt or suffer, that when we let go of the quest for perfection and break the pattern of the intellectual Need to know all the steps, and we just stay present with the qualities of just being here and being grounded and centered in what is we can be in a trusting place and meet life as it comes, and recognize that we're going to make mistakes and we're going to learn from them, and that the way out of that is loving ourselves up I loved when she said that, and the importance of being present, that when you're living back in the past or projecting in the future, you're missing life. I loved her mantra that I want to be present and I don't want to miss a thing. I've gotten to this point in my life where I've looked backwards enough and I don't want to keep making that mistake. I've chosen to be here in this and I'm going to not miss anything about this moment and her philosophy about that 5050 dance of the responsibility in relationships that we take 5050 responsibility. And I want to take 100% responsibility of my 50% you know what got me triggered in that moment? What piece did I bring to that interaction that I need to go away and figure out on my own and how we make assumptions as a way of evaluating? Do I measure up? Am I enough? So when you feel yourself making those assumptions about somebody else and what they think and believe and feel about you, asking yourself, Is this really true? What do I need to feel safe in this moment and checking in with your responses? You know, I loved her yardstick and tip of if, if my response is way out of proportion and way out of bounds in relationship to the actual event or incident, then I know that the trigger is old and historical. And so then asking yourself, How old did I feel in that moment when I had that reaction, and when have I felt this way before? You know, as a way of understanding what the wounding is and how. You can make a different choice. And I loved her, her tip about making choices that are in alignment with your vision, once you know what you want to do, even if you don't have it all figured out, you don't know all the steps and exactly what it looks like just saying yes to opportunities that are in a in alignment with that vision and making choices that keep you on that path to getting what you want and thinking about the qualities that you need to have in order to have that thing that you want, and writing them down and saying them to yourself and walking through the world with those qualities that keeps you on that path. You know that's in alignment with your it has to be me, right? So you can learn more about the Hoffman process at Hoffman institute.org you can get a copy of the Hoffman Process Book wherever books are sold. And I'm I'm really interested to hear what resonated with you during this conversation, so definitely share with me in the Facebook group. You.