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Turn Savings Into Legacy with Jason K. Powers, Part 2
Episode 5217th September 2025 • Make Your Wealth Work • Joe Pantozzi & Jason K Powers
00:00:00 00:19:09

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In this episode, Joe Pantozzi and Jason K. Powers share why so many popular wealth-building models stumble when real people and real markets are involved. They discuss why whole life insurance offers an edge that others simply can’t match, and how it can help you keep your wealth growing—no matter what. 

Joe also breaks down the mindset shifts needed to break free from toxic debt and financial limitations. If you’ve ever wondered how to truly gain control over your money and secure a brighter future for your family, this episode is for you.

Tune in for honest advice and fresh perspectives.

Show Highlights

  • Is the financial system you follow a flop? [01:26]
  • Discover the unlimited growth component in infinite banking [04:23]
  • How can you access your money without halting its growth? [04:55]
  • Learn the pros and cons of different wealth-creating models [07:06]
  • This is why you must educate yourself before buying life insurance [09:12]
  • Has your focus solely been on the numbers? [11:56]
  • Learn how Joe and Jason compare different financial systems [15:08]

joe@alphaomegawealth.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-pantozzi-941a073/

AlphaOmegaWealth.com

Transcripts

Speaker A:

Welcome to make youe Wealth Work, the podcast where wealth becomes your greatest ally in achieving your dreams.

Speaker B:

Hey, guys. Welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in.

Speaker A:

I'm just amazed that there has not come down the pike another model. And I hate the word system, but sometimes I can't think of a better word for system.

I can't think of another model, another system, another new development that actually contradicts Nelson's discovery because he says he didn't invent infinite banking. He discovered it.

There has not come down the pike another program or model or an idea that contradicts in all honesty and integrity, I must say it that way, that contradicts Nelson's method since he wrote the book 25 years ago. Now, a lot of people come out of the woodwork and criticize it, and they'll say, well, this method works better.

You know, I heard somebody saying, if you will buy that mutual fund, you know, that quality mutual fund, and earn 12% and buy a term policy in case something happens in the meantime, you. Yeah, it's called Buy term and invest the difference. It's a philosophy, it's a model. People are still selling it today.

And talk about selling a system that doesn't work. I have yet to meet someone who has actually put that system into effect and used it throughout their entire lifetime.

Now, I'm only going to from my own history and experience of 50 years, so I don't have all of recorded time under my belt, but in the 50 years that I've been practicing this, I haven't found that notion to be doable by the vast majority of people. And you can't ask me why, because I don't know why do I think that that would work?

Maybe in an optimal ideal parallel universe that does not include human beings, because human beings are going to invade that market account. They're going to invade that Wall street, that brokerage account, and they're going to upset their system.

They're going to sell when the market's low because they won't be able to tolerate the losses when they're losing 40%. Whatever the reason is, human beings have not been able to make that hypothetical work.

And now we could talk about all the reasons I disagree with it. Mathematically, scientifically, ethically, systematically. That's different. I'm just saying it hasn't worked so far.

ed investing in this thing in:

Speaker B:

Well, as you talk about that, I was thinking about how even how humans we tend to deplete and these environments, but even most of these growth vehicles, there are interruptions. We are interrupting the growth of these, be it we need access to the capital, be it market decline or whatever.

You're going to interrupt the growth of these vehicles. That's just how they're built, right? They're designed to be interrupted in effect. Right.

Because you can't, because you need to tap into it at some point or markets decline because it's attached to the markets or you know, and, and that's, that was another thing that was wildly attractive in infinite banking is this uninterrupted growth component. The fact that I can access my capital basis in my policy, I can take a policy loan and use it for what I need to make me money, save me money.

And I have not interrupted the growth of that vehicle. I cannot interrupt the growth of that vehicle in that regard. When I take, when I loan against the policy, I can't interrupt the growth.

And there simply is not another vehicle out there like that.

Speaker A:

You know, that's such a good point.

And you know, we talk about the difference between being a debtor, a person who just lives on credit, they're just full bore all in with using any credit, whether it's good or bad to live their lives. As long as they can manage the payment, make that payment on time, that's what they're going to go with.

Because they can't imagine, they can't wrap their brain around a better system. That's the debtor. Then there's the saver, right?

The person who's going to take the advice of their parents and grandparents, the greatest generation, and said don't ever buy anything unless you pay cash for it. And then there's a wealth creator. And Kiyosaki is probably a good example of a wealth creator.

Even though Kiyosaki doesn't have anything great to say about our business. I mean he's not a big proponent for life insurance and I don't really care.

He does teach good principles about money and how you should look at money and how you should look at savings and how you should look at good debt versus bad debt.

And he talks about acquiring capital assets that allow you to create passive income that then you can use to pay for your quote unquote liabilities, like a car, because a car is a depreciating asset. So you have the debtor, the Savior, wealth creator. There are multiple different kinds of wealth creators.

One wealth creator is a person who loves real estate and is going to buy nothing but real estate, period. That's how they're going to build their wealth.

They typically, many of them I've come across them, won't even back themselves up with a life insurance policy, whether it's term or anything else. They're just not into it. That's what they're committed to. I'm going to make and lose my fortune on real estate. That's one type of wealth creator.

They're using an outside credit facility of some kind, a mortgage, et cetera, and they're buying real estate. The other type of wealth creator is someone who uses a market margin loan on a brokerage account. Now that is a viable method. Does it have downsides?

Of course it does. Every, every method has downsides. What's the downside of taking a margin loan against a brokerage account?

Margin loans do not give you a fixed rate of interest. So when the, when the market for loan rates is going up, you're going to pay higher rates for your loan.

When the stock market is going down, you're going to be hit with a lovely thing called a margin loan, a margin call, and you have to write a check to bring your loan to value back in the line where it should be. I mean, is, is using a margin loan on a brokerage account a good thing? Potentially it's a case by case basis. Is it better than being a debtor?

I think absolutely. Is there another kind of wealth creator that we think is superior to either of those?

Yeah, it's owning a portfolio of whole life policies that are going to give you the continued growth, never going backwards, multitasking dollar access to a line of credit that you could never beat in the market because it's a fixed interest rate that you're never going to have to renegotiate and you have access to it, they can never say no to you. So these are different forms of wealth creators.

And what we're saying is if you learn how to be a wealth creator, you can accommodate your need for savings, you can accommodate your need for wealth recapture and, well, I'm sorry, for debt recapture and debt consolidation, debt redesign, creating taking toxic debt and turning it into intelligent debt. And you can accommodate your need to buy capital assets using your own banking system.

So we're getting into the, the aspects, the individual technical or objective aspects and attributes and characteristics of life insurance. But there are multiple steps that you have to take before you can get there.

If you try to jump into the deep end without getting the education, without reading the book, without having a coach to walk you through this process with patience, because it took Jason and me a while to get this, it's going to take you a while to get it.

And you've been in the habitual state, you all out there, many of you have been in the habitual state of using debt, using toxic debt, using credit, using mortgages, car loans, SBA loans, high interest loans, you name it, for such a long time, it's become part of your DNA. And so what we're suggesting is change the way you think about finances, change your life.

Speaker B:

That's right. Yeah. I think it's just is that find everybody has their own way of learning, right?

Some of you are listening to this podcast, some of you are watching it, perhaps, and some of you are catching this in sound bites. And that's how you're learning infinite banking, maybe in sound bites and looking into it. And if that's the way you're learning it, that's fine.

And I think get the holistic perspective and make sure you, you know, get through this. Becoming your own banker book by Nelson Nash, I think that is the foundation. And you, you get through that. It's what, 92 pages long.

It's not a heavy read, right? It's, it's just that's the foundation of what is the infinite banking concept? What is this concept that we're trying to understand?

And in understanding that, then I think the light bulb comes on for most people.

And for myself, it was like once I got away from, you know, that's kind of why, like Joe, you and I today, we kind of don't get caught up in the numbers, right? We don't get caught up in the vehicle.

You know, the concept itself is how do we put ourselves in a position where we are in control of our money, right?

How do we not constantly give control away and put our money in vehicles that they have control, we have none, we're very limited or we're penalized for trying to get control back, you know, and, and putting our money through something that we have way more control over. But so understanding the concept, why is it, why does it even matter? Right? Understand it. And then the vehicle is part two, if you will, right?

You don't get ahead of people. I have calls every single day. The very first conversation is the numbers.

And we have to try to go, okay, well, let's, let's, let's look at some numbers. Yes, that's Important, but it's not number one. You know, let's back up. And why do we even care about the numbers? What are we trying to accomplish?

You know, and I'll take that all the way back to our very first conversation when we started this, you know, talking about, like, with the young family who want to get ahead, we want to find a way forward, we want to find a means of saving for our, our children and ourselves and our future. And there is hope, right? There is hope in that. And I think the infinite banking concept is probably the, the primary model.

You know, we're obviously biased, but we're, we're living it. And I know dozens and dozens and dozens of people living it who can vouch for it, and more people.

Joe, you've, you've been at this way longer than me. You've seen this infinite banking concept catch on, right, over the years. And people, the light bulb is coming on and it's becoming.

Like someone once said, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Speaker A:

There you go. You know, maybe a part two would be in order on this subject.

Because what I'm seeing is that when people ask too early in the process to focus on the numbers, I want to remind them they should be looking at numbers compared to something, not compared to other practitioners, other insurance companies, other agents. If we're going to work together, we're working together and we're going to find the best method, the best alternative for you.

But I think what you need to compare this to is A, doing nothing, and B, compare infinite banking to infinite banking in another context. For example, Nelson talks about in his book page 45, the sisters, the IBC sister and the CD sister.

Well, if you understand banking, the family banking system, and how you could possibly do it using another vehicle, let's look at that. Maybe you could just use this system and you can, you can use the infinite banking concept using a savings account. And we proved that you can.

The numbers will be different, the benefits won't be identical, but it can work. You first need to understand how the infinite banking concept works and that you can use another financial vehicle.

You can use a portfolio of financial vehicles. You can use gold, you can use crypto. You can use CDs, you could use money markets. Does it make a difference? Sure it does. Sure it does.

Is it easy to use crypto? I wouldn't have any clue. Right. I could, I could almost guarantee you it's going to be cumbersome. Right? Can I use gold as my financial system?

Well, you got to Sell some in order to use it and translate it into another program. Can I sell some gold and buy a car? Yeah. Is it cumbersome? Of course we're not talking about whether it can be done.

We're talking about looking at all the different aspects and taking everything into consideration. Is this the best way to execute the infinite banking concept? We think it is.

And we will be happy to go through the math with you on the other alternatives because the math can be done if you're willing to incorporate all the different variables that will be involved in doing the math. Will do that math equation with you. I'm not telling you we're going to do it for free because that'll take a huge study.

It might take an alternate universe financial plan in order to compare how the infinite banking concept might work compared to an ordinary savings or using gold and silver or using some other alternative.

But you need to have the mind to first learn what the infant concept is about, not just, well, can I buy a whole life policy and start making myself rich? No, it's not like that. It took you years to get into debt. It may take you years to get out.

We'll hold your hand and walk you through that and we'll coach you and cheerlead you and show you the pitfalls and talk about some of the decisions that you've made in the past and how they weren't the most unlike optimal. It doesn't make any difference. It's the past. Let's see about making good decisions, informed decisions going forward.

Why don't we close this up, open it up for clients and prospective clients and people who are interested to contact us. And Jason, give your your website please.

Speaker B:

Yeah, you can learn more@:

Schedule a call with, with myself or Joe and let's find hope in your strategy. You know, let's unpack it together and see what it looks like. Don't self eliminate. I tell people that all the time. Do not self eliminate.

Let's have the conversation and let's see if it's going to work for you or not. We will tell you if it's not going to work. We'll tell you because we do not want you getting into something that's not right for you.

And so it happens. But at least you've explored it and go, okay, well this particular path isn't right for me.

And so reach out, let's talk, let's unpack it and let's see what it looks like for you.

Speaker A:

Awesome. I heard one of our advisors say a long time ago, we don't have the time to work with all of you.

We do have the time to work with those of you who are serious. And I would add another caveat to that.

We're only going to find this out over a short or long period of working with someone, whether they have integrity, whether they're actually teachable. Everybody tells us, absolutely, I'm teachable. Well, we're going to find out.

The first order of business, read a large print brief, 92 page treatise on the infinite banking concepts, becoming your own banker and then let's have a discussion about it, answer your questions about it, take you through some examples to see that you're comfortable with the concepts and then we we'll go forward from there. So we look forward to hearing from you. This is make your wealth work and I appreciate you. Have a good day.

Speaker B:

This is the podcast factory dot com.

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