Hemp and Green Building with Jacob Waddell

Episode 80 • 6th April 2023 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries

Intro:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

Ethan Young:

I'm Ethan Young, content writer at Isaiah Industries and we're a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Ryan Bell. How are you doing, Ryan?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:00:27

Hey, good morning, Ethan. I'm doing great. How are you?

Ethan Young:

: 00:00:29

I'm doing pretty good. We've been busy lately, we've got an event coming up this this April, the Metal Roofing Summit. So kind of been thinking about that, working on some marketing and stuff. I know you've been busy with that, too. What have you been up to with that?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:00:42

Just a lot of kind of getting the website up to date and shipshape. Just published the schedule yesterday. So if you go to metalroofingsummit.com, you can see what the agenda's looking like. And the speakers we have lined up, we have a few empty spots still that we're looking to fill, but I'm sure within the next week or so those will be, those will be in there and we'll have our lineup set in stone and just looking forward to seeing everyone again in April.

Ethan Young:

: 00:01:11

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it too. Last year was actually my first time, my first chance going to a Metal Roofing Summit in-person and it was a really great event. So for any listeners that are unfamiliar, it's not a marketing event, anything for our company, it's just an event where we try to kind of advance the industry. We bring in knowledgeable speakers about different areas like marketing and sales and just try and propel the metal roofing industry forward for a residential market. So looking forward to that. That's the end of April, I think, april 25th to 27th here in Dayton, Ohio. So and that's metalroofingsummit.com for anybody interested. Before we get started with our guest today, I do want to let our listeners know we are doing a challenge words this episode. So I'm sure a lot of you listeners are familiar with that, but each of us has chosen a word and given it to someone else, and our job is to try and weave it into the conversation. So we'll see if we're successful and let you know at the end. But today, I do want to introduce our guest. This is Jacob Waddell, president of the Hemp Building Institute, which is a nonprofit organization that helps environmentally-conscious consumers invest in the future of the planet by supporting the creation of better building practices. So thanks for joining us, Jacob. Glad you could be here on Construction Disruption with us.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:02:20

Thank you for having me. Yeah, this is exciting, this is fun. I was just looking at that event, the Metal Roofing Summit. It's really good. We've had some experiences with, you know, industry leaders just kind of getting together and communicating and not only just build camaraderie, but you do learn a lot. And often there's business connections and important interactions that happen there that really lead to future things. So that's awesome.

Ethan Young:

: 00:02:52

Yeah, we love to put these on, we think it creates a lot of value for everybody. You know, like I said, kind of push the whole industry forward. So I do want to start by asking, can you tell us a little bit about the Hemp Building Institute and kind of how would you describe that to somebody who's unfamiliar with it?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:03:07

Yeah, absolutely. So the Hemp Building Institute is kind of forwarding the hemp building and the natural building industries. Previously, I had been running the US Hemp Building Association, the trade association in our industry, and this is moving away from that. We're a non-member-based group. So there's no members. We're just basically collecting funds and executing on projects that are needed to move the industry forward. So currently we're looking at building codes. Last year with the USHBA, the U.S. Hemp Building Association, U.S. Hemp Buildiing Foundation. I led the charge to get into the IRC, the International Residential Code. Um, we're needing to finish off the commentary for that, and we're actually fundraising right now. Um, so we're kind of moving forward with that. Um, we're looking at ASTM standards for testing standards. You know, we're trying to figure out there's some performance testing that needs to get done for our industry primarily. Well, a major one is firewall testing. It's important tests, it's just expensive. And we have a material that is extremely fire-resistant because basically it's hempcrete. And we'll go and I guess we'll talk a little bit more about that without going too far. We're trying to move the industry forward.

Ethan Young:

: 00:04:40

Definitely pushing that cause further. So I guess we will go in, real quick, before we get any further. Can you explain to the listeners kind of a little bit about what hempcrete is and how you know, what role you hope to see in the in the building industry with hempcrete in the future?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:04:53

Yes, so Hempcrete is an aggregate-based composite. You have hemp as the aggregate in a lime structure, kind of, kind of like, you know, cement is or concrete's Portland cement and like rock aggregate. This is lime, kind of like a limestone and a plant-based or hemp-based aggregate. It's used in wall systems. Basically, the most beneficial performance aspect of it is its insulation value. But you basically create an entire wall structure, so you'll have like a stick frame of a building and then you have this around the stick frame and it creates your insulation and it creates your surface for putting materials on such as plaster. Yeah, and there's fireproof. Healthy, as you know, no chemicals at all, no off gassing. High PH in the lime so it prevents like mold. So there's, there's lots of benefits to it. But basically it's a walling system. They also can use it in the roofing, kind of insulation. As well as they've done some flooring, insulation like subfloor. Different companies are coming out with different products as well beyond hempcrete.

Ethan Young:

: 00:06:28

Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, it sounds pretty versatile. And something you mentioned there, which I do want to touch on sustainable building and green products and all this stuff is kind of a really big deal right now, and it's been a big deal for a while. But how specifically does hemp create and the building industry, how does that kind of tap into that? How does it, you know, kind of push that forward?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:06:46

So in a huge way, because hempcrete and most of the products are actually carbon-negative, which is a big change from highly carbon-positive things. To explain that, basically as the plant grows, it absorbs a bunch of carbon, you know, it turns that carbon into the plant material, it's photosynthesis that then gets trapped into stone. So for the life of the building, that carbon that was absorbed by that plant is not in the environment anymore. So it actually leads to a carbon-negative building product that really if we talk about things like going carbon zero or net zero buildings and things like this, you're going to need carbon-negative aspects of the building to balance off the required carbon-positive. Things like you need metal in the building, you know, other things that this can balance.

Ethan Young:

: 00:07:44

So you mentioned a little bit before your experience with the U.S. Hemp Building Association, all that and I saw when I was doing my research that you have some experience in manufacturing and construction. How has that helped you kind of advance the cause, and how has that helped you to better serve, I guess the hemp, the hemp building cause?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:08:01

I believe that a person is the accumulation of what they've gone through in life. And to get to a point.

Ethan Young:

: 00:08:09

Absolutely.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:08:10

I have lived a, I've done many, many things. I've lived many lives, as I like to say. Being in the manufacturing industry, especially my time in automotive, taught me quality control systems, taught me high-pressure situations and how to manage and how to move through those. That has helped a great deal in my time at the U.S. Hemp Building Association and now with the Hemp Building Institute to guide and to to look at it from a business sense. This is very critical, not only for the industry to have functioning organizations like this, but also being able to speak the language of businesses and companies, because in the end, that's how we move forward. We're going to move forward when we get considerable interest from major players in the construction industry that want to do this and again, gain their confidence and doing the things that we need to do to set up quality systems in our industry. I think it's how we get there.

Ethan Young:

: 00:09:20

Especially with this, you know, a newer product and something like this, you know, on this level where it has a lot of potential to change the way we build, a lot of potential to be widespread, might have some widespread adoption and all of that. So I can definitely see what you're saying. We're having that to kind of, sort of reassure the people who are looking to get into the market would be a huge boon. So where do you see hemp being maybe down the line, maybe 10 years, maybe 15 years in the future? Do you think widespread adoption is close on the horizon? You think it's going to take some time? I know you guys have had that big victory recently, it's getting adopted in the code and.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:09:55

So, you know, with this product, we actually have the benefit that it's been used in Europe for like 30 years. So we've kind of seen their growth pattern. There's obviously differences in our building environment than theirs. So we can't say that will behave the same way. Actually, there's a lot of potential. We can be more explosive with the adoption and the use, but probably for different reasons. So, you know, this product really started in France in the 1980s. It was trying to repair old buildings and all construction, and they're basically using concrete and it was causing water issues because vapor could permeate through the building material like it used to do in building materials. So that's how the guy came up and came up with hempcrete. And it was mimicking old building, too. Like when you talk about the concept of mixing lime with organic material as an aggregate, this is an old, old practice. This is Romans consistently did and there's a lot of talk about, you know, old construction that they did during the expansion of the Roman Empire that is still operational, still saying bridges and things like that. What we've seen in their environment is a steady uptake in increase and acceleration of its use.

Ethan Young:

: 00:11:28

Okay.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:11:29

I would hope what what we're trying to do and what we're trying to push for is people to realize it is an option. We don't expect everyone to use hempcrete or hemp materials at all. You know, it depends on your motivation, but we want it to be something that people are looking at. If people are worried about their health. You know, they go, okay, you know, I don't want to have toxic materials in my house.

Ethan Young:

: 00:11:56

Absolutely.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:11:57

I'm worried about sick building syndrome. I'm worried about mold, these type of things, use hempcrete. Or I want to cut my electrical bills down, so I want a better insulating material that doesn't have to use my HVAC as much, because that is the, for one, the highest electrical consumption of the house.

Ethan Young:

: 00:12:19

We run into that some with roofing, too, where being able to lower that electric bill really makes a big difference in sustainability for the whole home. And especially with a product like that where, you know, it can be used in a lot of different areas, a lot of different. But yeah, no, I guess right along with that you touched on a little bit. Are there any, what unique advantages does hemp have for building purposes? You know, we talked about that kind of sustainability. You talked about the insulation value. Is there anything else that, you know, makes it a great alternative for people to consider?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:12:50

Yes, so. It again, depends on your motivations and your concerns. If you're concerned that motivated by the environment, the current, the negative carbon impact of the building gets you. And of course it's a potential negative carbon because it depends on transport and everything. And really getting lifecycle assessments on our industry is a critical, another critical hurdle that we need to cross.

Ethan Young:

: 00:13:17

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:13:20

That's a big one. Health is another big one. There's people in our industry, specifically in this industry. I know one person that was in remediation trying to deal with damage in houses in New Orleans that were mold-ridden or has that nasty Chinese drywall that came in in the late Aughts and, you know, these issues. And then we had like another one that whose family had illness caused by sick building syndrome and actually was mold presence. And both these people are led into this industry for specifically health reasons. And then again, there is the value in the insulation itself and the high performance material that has a financial benefit. It may cost a little more to install, but over time you'll recoup that cost and then it'll end up being cheaper.

Ethan Young:

: 00:14:17

Yeah, and that's something I was going to touch on too. Just that like adoption, cause I don't, you know, you kind of answered it there, but hemp is a little bit more expensive than traditional kind of comparison or what's a?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:14:27

So well hempcrete, I hear between 20 and 30% greater cost. There's, I'm getting some specific numbers. There was this project in North Dakota, Fargo, North Dakota, by Grassroots Development LLC, where they built two tiny homes, one with conventional construction and one with hemp-based construction. They're still crunching their numbers, I think, and working through it. But once they get that developed, we'll have a better,like a good comparison in the market. But in general, the rule of thumb is 20-30%. But this is a high-performance material. So if you're wanting to have a good quality home, you often spend 20 to 30% more.

Ethan Young:

: 00:15:17

Yeah. And I think that that justification makes perfect sense. You know, you're getting some, you're getting a better product for more money. It makes perfect sense, so.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:15:23

And it's a time thing as well. We're at a very, we're at the opening stages of this industry. It's like every industry, it's most expensive at the beginning until you get the economies of scale. And then once we get there, we should see the prices drop. You know, there were, there was lots of talk during the lumber crisis, you know, a year ago, year and a half ago, that the lumber spike, that everyone's like, oh, no, this is the perfect time. And if our industry would have had its feet set a little bit more and had these pieces in place, that could have been a big deal to us because that's all it takes is like a little fluctuation in a commodity and suddenly we're cheaper than that. We just need to get our industry set up and awareness out. And then when something like that occurs, we'll suddenly become the best option.

Ethan Young:

: 00:16:14

Okay, yeah.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:16:15

Are there other hemp-based building products or materials other than hempcrete?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:16:22

Absolutely. So hemp wood is made in Murray, Kentucky. So they take the hemp stocks and they compress them into a wood-like material. Currently, there's furniture made out of it. Flooring is the major market. They're working right now towards a structural material. So that will be a big game-changer. When that comes out, they'll start to compete with wood, but you suddenly have a viable wood alternative and, you know. The other one that I'd like to talk about is hemp wool. So that is like batt insulation. There's a company called Hempitecture in Idaho who just opened a factory like a couple of days ago. Well,yeah, I guess this is going to air later, but a couple, like a week ago. They opened their their factory for production and like I said, it's batt insulation, it's made out of the hemp fiber.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:17:24

Wow. Very cool.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:17:28

Yeah. There's also talk about like OSB board. People have created things like this before, just not to scale and not to maintain production. There's a great deal of potential that that can be replaced or, you know, just help settle the market. I mean, the reality is there's potential here for a lot of local economies to survive and thrive. If we can get these type of industries, it'll build resilience in our our construction industry. We're no longer dependent on foreign sources for materials and, you know. And again, that's like kind of a wood conversation, is that's really what it would be doing in that case would be it's really building resilience in the market when one product for some reason or another skyrockets in price. You have another option and you have a good option.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:18:22

So it's probably safe to say there's more products coming down down the line too, and more potential for what can be developed with it.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:18:30

Yes, I know someone. I know someone made a coffin out of one. So basically anything that's like a wood type, you know, cellulosis material and the long fibers, and you have, like, a woody core, so you can cover a lot of bases.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:18:49

Awesome.

Ethan Young:

: 00:18:49

Interesting, yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:18:50

Automotive parts. There's another big one for the industry, but.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:18:53

Automotive?

Ethan Young:

: 00:18:55

Really? Huh?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:18:56

Wow.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:18:57

Yeah, yeah, so automotive parts have been used in Europe for a while, door panels, things like that.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:19:04

Okay.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:19:05

It's a composite often, but they're also using it as filler material in injection molding. Um, they're looking at like this, and all of these are just, a lot of it has to do with environmental impact is really the motivator for a lot of the larger industries.

Ethan Young:

: 00:19:22

I do want to go back to you were talking about earlier the adoption in the International Residential Code. What was that like and what does that kind of mean for hemp in the future?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:19:31

Alright. So what was it like? It was a grueling exercise. We spent a lot of time. Basically, you normally take years to develop code language and work through these things. We had a very tight window before the submission date for the the 2024 IRC. So in about four months we crammed in like a year's worth of work and and got it all done. Brought on some consultants, and actually right now we're fundraising for the last part which is the commentary. I'll kind of break that up. But we brought in some consultants that had experience with natural building materials in the codes, that had dealt with the straw bale, the straw clay, the cob and the tiny house codes. And they brought them on to help us with this and kind of usher us through it and know the right people to talk to, etc.. For us as an industry, the reason why we had to have a code was because our materials are different than current building materials. There's certain aspects like you needed a paper open system, so you actually have vapor passing through your wall. And so you have moisture control that comes from that, like a moisture dampening. And that's the same with the heat in general. It works like a sink, if you will, for both humidity and for temperature. But because of that, you don't have a wrap on, you know, or the wrap has to have a vapor permeability high enough. But I think specifically in the code it says no wrap because it can get dangerous because you can have moisture trapping and that could be a problem. So it's things like that that were specific alterations from standard building procedures that we needed to write a code in to expressly state these things to prevent failures and to make sure that good quality construction is occurring.

Ethan Young:

: 00:21:42

I guess my next question would be, you know, after that, after that victory, what's kind of the next you know, what do you think the next step is for the hemp industry? Is it just kind of public awareness? Is it adoption? Is it, you know, spooling up marketing or manufacturing?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:21:55

Yeah, and I did I did miss something on that last one. But at least this one, so the next steps really, what we got accepted into the codes was the code language and a reason statement. Um, there's another layer of the code, which is the commentary, which is, it's kind of like an extra thing in the IRC that many people don't access or utilize, but it talks about the intent and clarifies anything in the code language that might be confusing. It's kind of used by the top-level code and building officials if they have any questions or concerns. So completing that's the next major step. And then adoption. I'm sure you're all aware, being in this industry that codes around this country are incredibly splintered and sometimes state to state, sometimes county to county or city to city that their offices get to decide what gets built there. And so we've been accepted into the model codes, but now we need to actually be adopted into the building codes in different jurisdictions. So that's that's a huge next step that will be quite a undertaking and a little bit less straightforward than the document.

Ethan Young:

: 00:23:14

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And like you said, I mean, with all those different areas having different codes, and you touched on earlier too, you know, the United States is a pretty geographically diverse country and there's a lot of different areas that are maybe going to be better suited to using hemp and materials and others maybe not. Or maybe there's different, you know, different products that will work best in different areas, so.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:23:35

And the reality is there's still a lot of learning from this material. There's buildings that have been built all over the country at this point, but we're less than 100 that I know of.

Ethan Young:

: 00:23:47

Mm hmm.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:23:49

And they've now been built in different spots around the world from colder climates to warm climate. If we want to collect data the best we can. Like that house I mentioned up in North Dakota with the two tiny homes, they're actually collecting data. And really, if we can implement more data collection into new construction of these buildings, we could actually learn a lot and really move the needle forward. Performance data, you know, the comparable is as good as it's comparing to known buildings, but comparing the same technology in different locations will just not get that data that other industries have been building for decades and decades. And we really need to catch up.

Ethan Young:

: 00:24:37

Yeah, especially as a newer product makes for, you know, something you just kind of need to get that wealth of information that makes it easier to make a lot of decisions, you know? So, definitely understand that. I do want to ask something, a topic that comes up a lot in all of our episodes is the skilled labor shortage and kind of creating jobs and stuff. How do you think hemp and the hemp building industry would be able to maybe help address that? Or what do you think, what kind of role would it play in that?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:25:00

So, you know, this this is definitely a skill, especially if you're your hand-casting it, which is, you know, actually physically putting it on site. There's a way with new technologies like panels and bricks that can actually be equivalent to masonry. And so you can you can overlap known technologies. It's tricky because when you talk about the skilled labor shortage, is it a skill the people can learn to make a career at? Absolutely. But we have a labor shortage, so we actually need something that's easier. And that really goes to precast like bricks in a factory or panels in a factory-type environment better than installed. We're going to be working on a project here hopefully in the next year or so, where we're doing the preliminary work on it right now, using a panel system mostly, and we're trying to do a build. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, in this area so that we can have exposure to it to a wider audience. As well as we're trying to figure out if we can make an affordable housing version of this, like an affordable version and kind of couple it with some other technologies to try to save on energy and things like this so that we can make the argument that the increased building costs are counteracted by the lower operational costs and make them affordable living. So that's our hope. That's our challenge right now for ourselves to see if we can come up with this and see if we can work through the difficulties in that, because it's not going to be easy. But if we can figure it out, that should be progress. And again, getting back to the labor shortage, if it's easy to use. Hopefully it doesn't strain the labor market now.

Ethan Young:

: 00:27:08

And I think, you know, especially with the potential that this product has, you know, it could add a lot of jobs, could add a lot of capabilities for people and could could definitely have a big impact.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:27:20

Yeah. If we talk about jobs as a whole.

Ethan Young:

: 00:27:23

Mm hmm.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:27:23

We're talking about farmers. We're talking about processors that have to process this material. You have a manufacturer that needs to manufacture this material. And then you have the building side. So jobs as a whole, you're built, you can build local economies. You really, it doesn't make sense to ship hemp long distances because of its low density. It's just it takes a lot of fuel per what you're using or to really get to where it needs to be. You know, I bought stuff and I think 40% of my cost of my hemp that came in was the shipping cost.

Ethan Young:

: 00:28:00

Wow.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:28:01

You know, it's stuff like that. And right now we're importing stuff from Europe, so it's a little ridiculous. But yeah, so in general, job-wise, it's good for the economy, a local economy, and can really have an uplifting effect. Basically, if you get into a town or an area and you build a factory there, that's going to produce parts. It makes sense to have a processor near them and it makes sense for most of their material to come from farms near that. Yeah, so you can by investing in the end product and if there's a market to sell that end product, you make that strong argument. You can actually kind of revitalize an area or a region. So it could be really impactful.

Ethan Young:

: 00:28:45

Yeah, no, that sounds really pretty awesome. I might be a little ignorant here, but what kind of or is there like a particular area that's best suited for hemp growing? Like, is it pretty widespread in the U.S. that it would be effective or?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:28:58

So what we're seeing, I traveled around around the U.S. last year and the year before in my last role. You see different regions seem to be in the right position for different markets. So grain, we right now, we buy like hemp grain like hemp hearts and things like this. Like I think it's something like 80% of our production is actually coming from Canada and getting imported in. But we see a very strong grain market in the northern United States, you know, like North Dakota, South Dakota, that's what they're talking about. Montana, then you have like the fiber side, fiber, it kind of makes sense where the industry is. So even though it can be grown anywhere that we have existing infrastructure like in the Carolinas, North Carolina specifically seems to be a big part of this. But anywhere that has like textile background and textile infrastructure, because for the most part we don't want to build our own infrastructure. If we can utilize existing infrastructure, it behooves us. Yeah, that's kind of what you're seeing. You can grow it, they're trying to grow it everywhere. And again, it kind of, you can grow it anywhere. You just, it's really just the idea is to get it where there's infrastructure that can handle it. You know, when you talk about grains that makes sense when you have large tracts of land. Same thhings like this.

Ethan Young:

: 00:30:38

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense earlier with you talking about, you know, the economies of scale. So getting in places where it's already manufacturing all that kind of capability is already around. So then it's just easier to kind of get that product adopted and get it, you know, get it on its way to being widespread. So I think that is most of my questions. Before we wrap up, is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you think, Ooh, I kind of want to say that before we before we get close to the end?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:31:05

Visit us at hempbuildinginstitute.org. Consider donating right now, if you can, to our fundraiser to finish the IRC commentary. This is what I signed up for, this is really informing the highest-level professionals on how to interpret our code. We can also add some things in there and we're really trying to make sure that the hemp building industry has a voice in that document. We've been given the keys to create it ourselves, which is not something that always happens and we want to make sure that we can really drive that home. The costs really are the consultants and things like that that we need to to cover. So we're fundraising for that, that's the big stuff.

Ethan Young:

: 00:31:51

Gotcha. Yeah, well, before we finish up, one fun thing we like to do on Construction Disruption is called rapid fire questions. So we like to kind of end each episode with this. So this is seven questions, some of them are a little serious, some are a little silly, but all we need you to do is just just give us a short answer for each of them. So what do you think? You up for rapid fire?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:32:10

Yes.

Ethan Young:

: 00:32:10

Awesome. Okay. Alright, I will start with the first question and I'll let Ryan alternate on the rest of them, so. Alright, if you could take one person with you in a zombie apocalypse, who would it be?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:32:23

Oh, geez. Okay, I have a problem right now. My, my problem is I have a relationship right now that's going very well. I would probably bring my girlfriend. And the reason is because she's a great, incredibly capable human being that I trust very intensely. So that's really what you need. You need trust and someone that's willing to work. So I'd probably bring her at this point.

Ethan Young:

: 00:32:48

Sounds perfect, yeah.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:32:49

We we had someone answer that question with their grandma, and it was kind of the same reasoning behind it, I believe. I don't remember who it was, but they were like, Yeah, I think my grandma.

Ethan Young:

: 00:33:01

Well, they said their grandma, they said, was like, you know, still super active and like doing hiking trips and like a canoe trip like so, you know, it makes sense, I guess.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:33:10

Yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:33:10

Yeah. A beast you can trust.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:33:13

Right, yep. Sounds like a grandma I wouldn't want to mess with. Alright, next question. Are you a night owl or a morning person?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:33:24

I'm a morning person. That's reality. And I do my best stuff the first three or four hours of the day and then it all kind of peters out.

Ethan Young:

: 00:33:30

Interesting.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:33:32

You get burnt out around like 1 or 2 p.m.?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:33:35

Somewhere around lunch. I mean, like I normally still have meetings and things happening, but my actual, my best functioning time is basically 8 to 10 usually. And then at 10 is when my meetings start. So the first 2 hours are normally pretty good. And then I like the night. I do like I like to go out and have fun. But to be honest, I'm a morning person.

Ethan Young:

: 00:33:58

Alright, next one. This is kind of a fun one. If you were a wrestler, what would your entrance song be?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:34:05

Alright, so maybe Zombie by Fela Kuti.

Ethan Young:

: 00:34:13

Interesting.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:34:14

So I've been listening to Fela like, a little bit. I actually listened to a new Fela song yesterday, and it's this guy from Nigeria, it's Afrobeat. Is like that he started back in the seventies and stuff like that. But it's very rhythmic, like really good beats and it's almost all like war and protest songs. So like the one I was listening to yesterday, it was like he had been in jail for 12 years and kind of wrote the song while in jail and then came out of jail and put the song out and then caused a big uproar.

Ethan Young:

: 00:34:47

Wow, yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:34:48

Yeah. But it's, yeah so I think that would be it. That or like, almost, I think it's Billy Jack by Curtis Mayfield. I like the rhythm in that. Goat, almost anything by Goat, probably.

Ethan Young:

: 00:35:09

Sounds interesting, yeah. I'm going to have to look some of this up.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:35:11

Yeah, me too. Who was the first artist?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:35:14

Fela Kuti. So it's F-E-L-A K-U-T-I. And the song Zombie is like talking about soldiers and war, basically.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:35:23

I love, I love when we ask these questions because it's never I mean, maybe occasionally we've had someone with a common song, but it's usually always someone I've never heard of. And I'm like, Well, I got some new music to listen to. Next question, What impact do you hope to have on the world?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:35:41

So I have made it my mission in life to do what I can to try to help the environment and the world. I think we need to. I understand civilization, I like civilization, I like my house, I like all the luxuries we have. We just need to figure out how to work better with the world around us. I think these materials, the hemp materials, natural building in general, is a way to move towards that and to do that so that we can both have our great comforts that we've become accustomed to and at the same time just work more in harmony with our environment.

Ethan Young:

: 00:36:26

Gotcha, very noble. Alright, here's kind of a fun one. If you had to delete all but three apps from your phone, which would you keep? Like, would you go cold turkey with social media? What do you think?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:36:37

See, I'm not a big social media person. Like I'm having to learn that in order to push the Hemp Building Institute. But honestly, I was basically a ghost on social media until like my birthday last year when I was like, I have to make a change because I need people to actually hear my voice. So social media wouldn't be an issue. Music's a big thing to me. I do listen to a lot of Spotify. I don't know if Mail counts as an app. I sadly have to be connected. Probably a game. I've been doing a lot of the there's like this, hard sudoku game, killer sudoku.

Ethan Young:

: 00:37:20

Killer sudoku, yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:37:22

It's like sudoku, but you have like, internal boxes that have a number on it. So as well as the normal sudoku, you have like, two things put together? It's like 17. So, you know, it's a nine and an eight in those two numbers. Those are the only two things that equal 17 and it just adds another layer to it. I'm a math person, so yeah.

Ethan Young:

: 00:37:41

No I was introduced to killer sudoku, I think I found it on like a YouTube video. There's a couple of guys that do that and do like really absurd, crazy, hard sudokus. But it's a really fun game and it it goes really deep. I think I've done an expert like, once, but I had to cheat and get like a hint or two, but pretty fun.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:37:59

What's the best or worst advice you've ever been given?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:38:04

No, it's hard to, I can't actually think of, like quotes from anybody. But, you know, I think very crucial advice. You know, you got to live. Like you can't just sit your life on the sideline. You got to live and do things. You're going to make mistakes. That's just that's a reality and keep moving on through them. Worst advice, invest in crypto. Especially right before that crash last year.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:38:43

It's got. It's got to come back, right?

Ethan Young:

: 00:38:45

Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:38:47

I think I bought a small like small, small, small fraction of bitcoin right before it crashed. And I was like, and that was my first, like the inkling of being interested in it. Yeah, that ruined it.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:38:57

Yeah. I actually, I know some people who did very well in bitcoin.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:39:01

Yeah.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:39:02

And I'm, I think I'm about even because I got in like, right about the time before it really picked up. And I think where it's at now is that when I originally buying. Yeah, some people did really well, not everybody.

Ethan Young:

: 00:39:16

Alrighty, last question. What do you think you'd like to do when you retire?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:39:20

So you know, the life I'm living right now is really what I want to do with my life. But so it's kind of like I, I guess ideally, ideally what I'm doing is traveling around the world trying to help people improve their situations, hopefully, in both environmentally friendly and socially uplifting ways. There's a lot of potential with what we do with these materials that like communities such as like indigenous communities around the world or, you know, either smaller economies that, you know, especially that labor force can come in and utilize this material and really be on the forefront of a new industry as well as creating housing and creating jobs. So, when I retire, I'd like to travel the world and keep working to help people.

Ethan Young:

: 00:40:21

Nice, awesome.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:40:22

It sounds like you're in a good spot right now. I'm going to, I don't mean to exasperate, but I want to throw in an eighth question here for you. All this talk about hemp reminds me of the first hemp necklace I got at the county fair in the nineties. Do you own any hemp necklaces?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:40:42

I don't own any hemp necklaces. I do own some hemp shirts, I think hemp shoes. I got a hemp belt on.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:40:49

Okay.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:40:51

I'm not the, there are certain people that own a lot of hemp. I'm not quite there, but I do not own, I just don't wear necklaces.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:41:05

Yeah. I'm a little disappointed you didn't have one on for this, but I'll let it slide.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:41:10

Alright. Next time, I will go out and I will find one.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:17

I do want to before we finish up here, I do want to say so, we did, I think all three of us got our challenge words in. And so I'll let Ryan, you go first. What was your word?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:41:26

Exasperate. I don't even think I used it properly, but I had to get it in there at the end.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:31

I think it worked out great. So mine was turkey, which I got in there alright. It took me a little bit to think of it. And then, Jacob, what was your word?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:41:38

Mine was calibrate and I said, calibration.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:40

That's all right. That counts.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:41:41

But when did you use turkey? I must have missed it.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:44

I said, If you had to delete all the apps, I said, would you go cold turkey with social media?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:41:48

Oh, wow.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:41:50

Man, you tricked both of us. Neither of us caught it.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:41:54

That was under the radar, but I do remember that.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:56

Sweet.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:41:56

Nice, well-played.

Ethan Young:

: 00:41:59

So, yeah, I think. I guess I'll take it for this episode, so. Well, you mentioned it before, but what's the best way for people to kind of learn more about hemp or learn more about the Hemp Building Institute or get in contact with you? What's the best way for them to do that?

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:42:15

So hempbuildinginstitute.org, hempbuildinginstitute.org website. Social media like Instagram is hemp_building_institute. But on Facebook, I think it's the same thing. I think it's hemp_, that might be Hemp Building Institute just one thing. I can't exactly remember, I just made it. That's probably a good way. My email is jacob@hempbuildinginstitute.org, so you can reach out to me there if you need to talk to me about anything. Yeah, US Hemp Building Association's a really good place, the International Hemp Building Association has some good information, so there's a couple other organizations that are in our our world that are very helpful. We're growing, so hopefully more and more the answer will be everywhere. But right now, those are some of the best ones.

Ethan Young:

: 00:43:11

Awesome. Well, thanks for the interview. It was great talking with you.

Jacob Waddell:

: 00:43:14

Yeah, I appreciate it as well. Thank you so much. And again, I think this this summit you are having for your industry is is a great thing. And if I was in metal roofing, I would be going.

Ethan Young:

: 00:43:27

Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. Alright, and thanks to our listeners too, for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with Jake Waddell, president of the Hemp Building Institute. So keep an eye out for future episodes. We have some more great guests coming up. And if you enjoy the show, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Till next time, stay curious and open to innovation. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.

Ethan Young:

: 00:43:53

Intro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.

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