Saving Pets, Losing Ourselves: The Realities of Veterinary Burnout

Episode 49 • 19th March 2025 • Barking Mad • BSM Partners

Jordan Tyler: Imagine walking into work each day, knowing that part of your workload is making life or death decisions. And that no matter how hard you try, you'll likely have to deliver heartbreaking news. If not today, then tomorrow, or the next.

Now imagine that after making those impossible choices, The very people you're trying to help, accuse you of not caring of being in it for the money or even of being responsible for their pets suffering. That's the reality for today's veterinary professionals.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Burnout exists in every industry, but in veterinary medicine, it's not just about long hours or overwhelmed workloads. It's about the crushing, emotional toll of caring deeply for animals while constantly navigating life and death scenarios. It's about the compassion fatigue that builds up when pet parents see you as the villain instead of as the advocate, and it's about an industry that often fails to support the very people holding it together.

Today we're diving into what makes veterinary burnout different from burnout in other professions, why it reaches crisis level and what can we do about it?

Jordan Tyler: And if you're a pet parent, stick around. We're also going to talk about what you can do to support the veterinary professionals in your life. Because behind every healthy pet is a veterinary team that's giving it their all.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Welcome to Barking Mad, A podcast by BSM Partners. We're your hosts. Dr. Stephanie Clark—

Jordan Tyler: —and I'm Jordan Tyler.

So, burnout. This is a huge topic. It's talked about in all kinds of different industries, but in the vet space, it's really concerning for the reasons we just kind of talked about. And probably we could have multiple like hour long discussions about this. Um, but just to kind of share some quick stats around burnout in the veterinary space, just to kind of set the stage.

So, one: 2022

So, compound that with the stress of high debt to income ratios among this profession, which we'll get to a little bit later, as well as, uh, compassion fatigue, which can really accelerate burnout. As well as increasingly high pet owner expectations, you can see this is a recipe for disaster. In fact, veterinary professionals are approximately twice as likely than other health care providers and four times more likely than the American general public to die by suicide, that's a devastating reality for an industry built on caring for others.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And to really illustrate this point, we want to share one story from a practicing veterinarian that highlights the mental and emotional toll this profession takes on the people within it. This person titles her story, “The Case That Still Haunts Me.”

Anonymous Veterinary Professional No. 1: There are some patients you never forget, the ones that weigh on your heart long after they've left your care. For me, that patient was a young, sweet natured golden retriever who suffered from severe food allergies. Managing his condition was a long and expensive process, requiring a strict diet and allergy medications. His owner sought out specialists but frequently disregarded their recommendations in favor of internet research. Despite these setbacks, we eventually got him stable and comfortable.

Then came the conversation that still lingers with me. The owner sat me down and told me they couldn't afford to continue his treatment and were unwilling to stick with his prescribed diet or medications. Their decision was euthanasia.

I couldn't accept that without exploring every possible option, so I reached out to rescues, hoping to find an alternative. On the very day he was scheduled for euthanasia, I found a rescue willing to take him. I shared this lifeline with the owners, but they declined. They chose euthanasia anyway.

Two weeks later, they requested another meeting with me. The wife accused me of being inconsiderate, claiming they would have done anything to keep him comfortable, contradicting the exact words her husband had spoken when we first discussed euthanasia. He sat in silence, staring at the floor, while she voiced her anger.

I wanted so badly to call out the hypocrisy, to make them see the weight of their decision. But all I could do was sit there. Absorbing their words, carrying the guilt of a life that could have been saved. That case is a reminder of the emotional toll this profession takes. We fight for our patients, we exhaust every option, but sometimes, the hardest part is knowing we can't save them all—no matter how much we want to.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Shall we go run for a box of tissues now?

Jordan Tyler: For real, I should have seen that one coming and gotten them in advance.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Even just reading it and hearing it, it just, it hits so hard.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. It hits hard, and it's also, it's not only sad, but like, it's making me angry. Right? I'm kind of infuriated by this story.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Because a life could have been saved.

Jordan Tyler: Right. And she, like, this person that's sharing this story really did everything that she could.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Yeah, when we got this story, it reminded me of the story that haunts me. And this happened almost two decades ago, and I remember it like it was yesterday.

I was working in an emergency clinic and this family came in and they had asked to euthanize their dog because it was becoming aggressive. This dog was an outside dog. It stayed in its pen all day and it was lunging or, you know, running at the fence and barking at anyone who passed by. We tried to give the family some options, you know, behavioral training, they could have re homed the dog, a lot of different options other than ending its life.

Unfortunately, they decided euthanasia, and so after the animal passed. We brought it back and you have to remove its collar and any tags before it can be taken to be cremated. And I was in charge of removing all the tags and leashes and collars. And when I removed the collar, the dog had its collar so embedded into its neck and was eating away at its neck.

And there was maggots in there. So, this dog probably wasn't an angry dog. He was just in a lot of pain. Because it didn't make his collar bigger as he was growing. And it really just like, that hit me.

Jordan Tyler: Oh my god.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And that's the reality. That was, unfortunately, just a normal Tuesday in the clinic. It was the first time I spelt maggots, and I will never forget that smell.

Jordan Tyler: God, I just, yeah, that's a harrowing, harrowing story and I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And think about it this way—that happens, and you turn right back around and you have to see another patient because they're waiting. The next appointment is there. And so, you shove it down deep or you compartmentalize it and you just keep packing it on.

Jordan Tyler: And you bring that up—we actually received another story from a separate currently practicing veterinarian about having to deal with loss and then turn right back around and keep seeing patients and keep taking appointments. So, let's hear their story now.

Anonymous Veterinary Professional No. 2: We had a one-year-old Golden Retriever brought in on emergency one evening with a tennis ball stuck in his throat. We had someone get on top of him and successfully squeeze it out. I then assisted with CPR, but it was unfortunately too late and the pet had passed.

I was on tech appointments that night, but everyone is hands-on in an emergency, so immediately after the incident, I saw my next appointment. It was a young puppy needing booster vaccinations, and I just couldn't keep from crying while looking through the puppy's records. I just kept picturing the golden retriever who had just passed, having so much fun and playing with his owners, which suddenly turned into panic and tragedy.

Luckily, I had great teammates who stepped in and took the puppy appointment for me, so I could take an extra minute to process my emotions, but I still remember that patient and his effect on me very vividly.

In that same clinic, I also experienced several behavioral euthanasias. While I understand the need for behavioral euthanasias at times, it's never easy. I felt it was even more difficult in this particular clinic as we were an emergency clinic with six to seven doctors on each shift.

The doctors would obtain their own histories from clients without technicians ever entering the rooms. This left me placing catheters on dogs that presented behavioral euthanasia. But in my very brief experience with them, they were as sweet as could be.

Jordan Tyler: Man, some heavy, heavy stuff today.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I mean, it does take a toll, right? And the emotions, the, the constant death that you see every day. You know, it's unfortunate, you know, a struggling veterinary workforce has direct consequences for the care of the pets they receive. And this comes at a detriment to pet parents and their companions. You know, with more vets leaving the profession due to burnout, wait times are increasing, and pet care is becoming more expensive and less accessible.

I know I took my pets back in October, and I was there for two hours, and I won't even tell you how much the bill cost. But taking this a step further, exhaustion can lead to mistakes. A burned-out vet might miss a subtle sign of illness or struggle to connect with a client in a way they once did. And it's all about that connection when you're in an appointment.

ingdom, who's practiced since: 2001

Later in his career, Joe has spent a lot of his time providing mentorship for other vet professionals, as well as researching th e phenomenon of veterinary burnout to explore both individual and systemic factors that cause it and how we can solve it. So definitely looking forward to tapping into that today.

We are also joined by Dr. Frank Niles, Principal Business Psychologist and leader of BSM Partners’ Business Transformation and Leader Development practice. So, he will add some really valuable color around veterinary burnout from a psychological perspective and discuss a few strategies that this profession and organizations within it can implement to combat this issue.

So, Joe—how exactly would you define burnout? And what would you say are the main causes for people in the veterinary profession?

Dr. Joe Hill: So, burnout is really a kind of continuous depletion of emotional energy. So, the thing with burnout is it just gets to a point where there's nothing left. You can't recharge. Paramedics, nursing, teaching, all of these things have these same draws.

And so, so the biggest things that happen in the vet world, you've got your individual response to these things. So, there's an individual component, there's your workplace environment and the culture that exists within. Um, and then there's a kind of management and mentorship. So, there are three of the big things.

Jordan Tyler: Okay, so that's sort of how it's broken down. But before we get too in the weeds, I think most pet parents have a limited view of what really goes on in a veterinary clinic or a vet hospital. So, Joe, could you take us through like a day in the life? You know, what does a veterinary professional's day look like on average?

Dr. Joe Hill: It depends what type of practice you work in. That has a massive impact to how your day looks like. So, um, at the moment, I work in first opinion work. It's relatively routine. Um, I start work at nine. I finish work at six. I have 15 minutes appointment slots through the day. So that would run from maybe nine till 12, an hour off, then one till sort of half five, quarter to six.

On another day, I might start at nine, finish at like ten, and then do surgery till two or three in the afternoon, and then straight back into consults and then carry on. So, my daily job has varied quite a lot, but the parents will see is more that clinical side. So, in the hospital, it's totally random. So, you kind of start at half eight and then you finish whenever you finish, should be half six. Sometimes it's half eleven at night, depending on what's going on because you're open 24 hours a day. You have your scheduled work and then you have whatever came in overnight, and most things are coming overnight require quite a lot of attention during the day.

So those days fluctuate quite hugely and there's not a lot you can do about some of that fluctuation, so that they were quite varied. And sometimes in those schedules, I'd work maybe 12 days straight. So, 120 to 140 hours without a day off. Um, so you get pretty burnout.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, I can totally imagine. I mean, those are crazy hours. So, I could see how it would not only take a physical toll, but also a mental and emotional toll. And Frank, I'd love to get your thoughts on this more from a psychological perspective.

Dr. Frank Niles: In terms of the burnout, the brain really has one fundamental purpose. It's to regulate the body so that it can survive and continue on. And so, in psychology, we have this concept that we call the body budget.

When we are constantly moving back and forth between different activities, it throws us out of homeostasis and so to be a highly effective that or any kind of frontline professional where you're toggling back and forth between different demands and facing completely different situations.

It's actually inherent in what you do at some point you're going to feel burnout. So the question becomes, how do we manage that on a daily basis?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, I always wanted to be a vet when I grew up. But it's interesting when I was going to school to become a vet, we went around the room on day one and, and why do you want to be a vet?

Or why do you want to work in this profession? And probably nine out of the ten. students in there, you know, so that they wanted to cuddle kittens and puppies and they like animals and they don't like people, they don't get along with people, well, newsflash, every animal has a person that comes in with them, uh, when coming into the vet clinic, so you do have to deal with people.

But, you know, I think reality hits them a little hard as it's not just all rainbows and sunshine and unicorns and kittens and puppies, it's actual hard work, it's You are everything to everybody all the time and that can really be a lot and so Yeah, the compassion fatigue the burnout that we're talking about in this episode is so real not only for veterinarians, but for Technicians and technologists the kennel staff the receptionist everybody in that clinic or hospital Experience it at some point in time

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, it's crazy to think about, you know, you never know when your day is going to end, you know, especially if you're in an emergency setting, you know, like you were saying your day could end at 5 p.

m. Your day could end at 2 in the morning. That's crazy, you know, just being able to cope with that level of fluctuation in your schedule and then not even to mention the stress. That you get while you are on the job, you know, having to deal with sick animals and frustrated pet parents. And it just sounds like the highs are really high.

But when it's low, man, is it low. And when a veterinary professional experiences such highs and lows on a daily basis, it can become difficult to maintain the compassion that likely drove them to enter this field in the first place. This phenomenon is called compassion fatigue, and there's a slippery slope between compassion fatigue and full-on burnout.

So, Frank, coming back to you as the psychologist on today's episode, what is compassion fatigue and why are veterinarians and other frontline workers at higher risk for experiencing it than, say, people in other lines of work?

Dr. Frank Niles: Yeah, so anybody that's in a caregiving role, but especially when you're kind of like on the front line, you're primarily trained on the technical aspects of the job.

And yet the vast majority of vets or any medical professional goes into, into their line of work to reduce suffering. And so, when we're consistently exposed to suffering that can have a negative effect on our mental health. And so when we talk about the fatigue, it can manifest in a variety of different ways.

One way it can manifest itself is almost as a depression. You know, you just keep it on and you don't process through it and you don't know how to make sense of your emotional state. And so it can lead to really profound. In a sense, sadness, or on the flip side, back to compartmentalization, what do you do?

Suppress, suppress, suppress. And so when you suppress, we often then become the opposite of why we got into the profession. We become non compassionate. So again, when we talk about compassion fatigue, it comes from the nature of the job that we do. And that's the reason we have to be able to create space in our lives to debrief And reflect and have conversations with people in our network around what we're experiencing and just go, man, I'm having a hard time.

Jordan Tyler: Right. And I would imagine, you know, given the intense workloads and a constantly changing schedule of appointments and surgeries and tests and all of that, creating that space can be really hard. Coming back to the stories we heard earlier from currently practicing veterinary professionals and Dr. Clark as well, compartmentalization is a real thing that has to happen on a daily basis so when you’re confronted with a difficult situation you can carry on throughout the rest of your day and the rest of your appointments.

And we'll share more about how we can try to create that space you were talking about a little bit later, but first, Steph, you were once a practicing vet, so I'm curious, do you have any notes or call outs that you want to make before we dive deeper into burnout? Like anything you think that we should be like really mindful of through this conversation?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, I think it's really important that we look at veterinary profession as a whole. You have a lot of different types of professionals. You know, you have your, your DVMs or your Doctors of Veterinary Medicine, but you also have your veterinary technicians. Even if we want to split that up further, you have your veterinary technologists. which have just a little bit different schooling, but sometimes in a clinic or hospital, they do similar tasks. And then you have your kennel staff, you've got your receptionist, sometimes you have your pharmacy staff, and they're all in the same clinic or hospital, and they're experiencing the same work and environment.

And sometimes, it's the same stresses as, you know, the doctor who's physically seeing patients. But it's really interesting that we all can experience burnout, or we all can experience compassion fatigue. And it's not saying that a receptionist can't experience compassion fatigue because they're not physically seeing patients. It hits everybody the exact same way.

So Joe, I'm really curious in your expertise and in the UK. What does it look like when burnout starts to manifest? What have you seen?

Dr. Joe Hill: So, one of the really great things about my work is, um, you get to know people really well. So, so the, the culture's really closely knit.

Even in the bigger places that I've worked, you still have a, a really closely knit. environment. If you're in a relatively close-knit relationship, if it's a vet tech or a vet nurse burning out, it has a massive impact on everyone around them. And then often the problem is in these more toxic environments is that then people start to leave.

Which means that, you know, if you imagine you're in a five-vet clinic and one of the vets leaves and you're at capacity is, well, where does the extra work go? Well, it tends to get levered onto someone else. So those protected times, those things you used to be able to do, I mean, things like eating lunch.

There's lots of times I'm eating while I'm walking from A to B. That is my break. You can handle that for a day or two days or three days a week, because you know that next week, will be totally different. But when that becomes the norm, then it adds. And then the burner adds. He, he tends to kind of snowball to a point where it can be really challenging.

So that is the problem with such a small team is once he starts to go, it can go very quickly. Uh, the wheels can fall off remarkably fast.

Dr. Frank Niles: Looking at it from a pet parent perspective, they may not even be aware that this is all happening, but they can probably feel it, I would guess. So Joe, what are some things that as a vet, you would want pet parents to know when they come into the clinic?

Dr. Joe Hill: Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Um, I think one of the phrases that was used once was, I wish I had a retrospectoscope. You know, and it is like, if we knew what the outcome is going to be from the decisions we made, we would always make the right one. But that's just not the reality. And also, you can treat 100 patients the same way with the same condition, and there's the individual biological response to the drugs and the meds and everything else that you're doing.

So, I think really, we don't want to keep you late, we might be running behind time, but there's a reasonable chance we've probably dealt with something quite emotionally traumatic or physically traumatic or something has happened and that's why we're running late. You know, we're not running late just to deliberately annoy someone or because we decided to have an extended lunch.

So, I think it's just that understanding. None of us, we're not in this for money. If we are, we made a really bad career choice.

Jordan Tyler: That's a great point. And we'll talk about that a little later as well as more of a structural issue, right? It's part of the systemic reasons why burnout happens, particularly in the veterinary profession.

But while we're still here at the individual level, I want to throw it back to Steph and give you an opportunity to share any actionable strategies for how that professionals, whether they're DVMs or technologists, receptionists, anybody that's feeling burnout in this profession, to kind of create eight space. Like what did you do when you used to work in a clinic in a hospital?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Yeah. It's almost a proactive approach, like, before it starts hitting, and, and I get it. Much easier said than done. I'm not sitting here on my high horse saying I've never experienced compassion fatigue, I've never experienced burnout—folks, I have gone in my car, cried my little heart out before starting it, and heading home after a day in the clinic. Like, it gets tough out there.

You know, what do you do for lunch? Do you have the opportunity to step away from the clinic or the hospital or the desk? Also, do you do anything at the end of the day? When my husband comes home, he teaches special ed in high school and he needs like 30 minutes to decompress. Before I even ask him how his day is, and I think the same thing is true for us, whether we work from home or we're working at a clinic, and I try to do this, you know, whether I got off at 8 p.m. or 2 a.m., it's like, sit in my car, maybe scroll through social media, plan something I was going to do that weekend before turning on the car, getting in, going, and adding another layer of stress. Not that driving is stressful, but It's another thing that our brain is trying to comprehend and go through while we're still decompressing and going through everything that we just got out of the clinic for.

And I know people will say, “You have to make the time, you have to make the space,” and trust me, I get it. You know, Jessie Spano, “Saved by the Bell,” “There's never any time,” been there, done that. But there are some small things sometimes we can do. You know, can you go for a walk? Can you pet a dog?

When I worked in a corporate situation, I used to take my lunches and go sit in the kennels, and it was just 30 minutes. For me, it was a sense of like, I can decompress, I can be just me and the dog and just love on them. I needed to just step away from the chaos and the people talking and the buzzing of the office before I went back to my afternoon. But these are small things that I've been trying to incorporate into my life and when I actually can, I feel good. But you know, not everything is going to help for everybody and it's not going to be an every single day thing because life happens. Uh, especially in clinics and hospitals.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. Well, first of all, you experience sadness, you experience joy, you experience fear. You know, I experienced all those emotions too, but I experienced them in probably different ways than you do.

And that can be said person to person. And so, we should think about burnout in that way too. You know, it's going to impact people differently. And the way that they cope with that is going to have to look different. That's just, that's just how life works. That's how emotions work. Um, and unfortunately that's how stress works.

And so, you know, what's best to do for you. And, you know, we're not trying to give, you know, unsolicited advice or, you know, say, “Hey, have you ever thought about just going for a walk?” Like, I'm sure you've thought about going for a walk.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Would love to!

Jordan Tyler: Right, exactly. It's really just, I think the message is the little things that you can do that you can set aside for yourself, that you know you can control.

When you're constantly inundated with things that you can't control and really, really difficult situations and emotional situations. When you can even take five minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes here and there. To really ground yourself and come back to the why that you do this, I think those are all really good takeaways.

I'd like to move on now to more of the systemic piece or the structural piece of what is really causing burnout in the veterinary profession and how we can combat it. Kind of starting off with the concept that like a veterinary degree is a very specialized degree, right? But people that go into veterinary medicine are not making a whole lot of money, especially not in terms of like if you were to go into like human medicine and become a surgeon, a human surgeon and a veterinary surgeon, um, not in the same tax bracket. I'm sorry to break it to you.

Actually, to kind of paint that picture, the average debt to income ratio for veterinarians in the United States is 188%, which essentially this means that veterinarians owe nearly two times their annual salary and student loan debt. So, they're graduating with student loan debt that is essentially two times what they're going to make in a year.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And a lot of these are trying to start their own business or even going into a specialty. And I mean, honestly, whenever I was making my decision between graduate school or vet school, that played a role into my part, um, in my decision. Right, wrong, or indifferent? It did. I was like, do I really want to walk out with six figures and dead at, you know, at a young, you know, mid, late twenties? No! But it's the reality.

And, I mean, even now, you know, if I sit back and I look at the difference between a veterinary technician and a veterinary technologist, most people have no idea. It's a vet tech, right? We all do the same thing, right? You're a vet nurse. But a technician goes to two years of school, and a technologist goes to four years of school. We get the same pay, we do the same job, we get called pretty much the same thing about tech, but we have more debt. So, it's so crazy that, you know, nurses, there's different pay grades for the level of nurse, but in veterinary medicine there's not.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, I guess I never realized that. And I would imagine most other pet parents that don't have like a friend or a loved one that is in the vet profession would know that either. Just alarming.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Now what about the organizational or clinic level? Joe, what can we do to create healthier work environments for veterinary professionals?

Dr. Joe Hill: So, if we look at the research that's been done, the main reason people leave the profession, two of the major ones, is a work life balance. And lack of mentorship and support.

So, work life balance, we briefly talked about how many hours you work, how those hours are stretches. If you run a business well, you should be able to build in a good work life balance with having minimal impact on what people are paid. So, there's an operational business point to that, about being efficient and effective.

Um, but it's also about giving people the balance that's there. The other side is providing sort of mentorship and support in practice. One of the problems we have in the veterinary profession is often people are promoted due to their technical ability and not their ability to lead. But actually, what we need to do is succession planning.

So rather than suddenly saying to someone, “Tomorrow you're going to be leading this team of six people—by the way, you've never done any leadership training.” Finding the potential leaders. much earlier and then actually developing their technical ability in that field so that when the leadership position is there is they're ready to fill the hole.

We do that with everything else. We wouldn't let someone do spinal surgery without going through a whole load of training and practicals and working up to it. But weirdly, when it comes to these other critical things like leadership, we do it all the time. Um, so it's finding the right people, train them in advance, getting them ready for the roles they're going to do.

Dr. Frank Niles: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're speaking to my heart. We see this across the board. It's really important to distinguish between performance and potential just because you're a high performing veterinarian doesn't mean you have necessarily the potential to become a people leader.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, that's interesting. And to your point, Frank, it sounds like there's just a lack of resources around well-being and work life balance, mentorship, and leadership in this profession.

For example, when we were doing some research, one study showed just 12 percent of veterinary professionals have access to well-being resources. So first, first, we need to make more resources like this available, and then we need to raise awareness about these tools and how we can use them to create a healthier working environment for veterinary professionals.

And luckily, this is improving as more and more people inside and outside the veterinary community break their silence about burnout. You know, the American Veterinary Medical Association or AVMA is talking more and more about burnout these days, and Dr. Stephanie even saw a post on LinkedIn recently announcing a new program by Royal Canin Academy called, “Supporting Veterinary Wellbeing.” The program will be centered around teaching veterinary professionals practical strategies for combatting burnout, including regulating stress, setting healthy boundaries, and practicing self-compassion. So, if you’re a vet tuning in today and want to learn more about that program in particular, we’ve linked that post in the show notes for you to check out, as well as a few other resources for understanding burnout in this profession.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So clearly a lot of these issues around high burnout in the veterinary space are structural, and it'll take concentrated efforts across the industry to truly address the root causes of these issues, rather than putting a band aid on a gaping wound. But regardless, the effects of high burnout among veterinary professionals trickles down to pet parents.

Joe, you spoke earlier about having patience and compassion, but what other actionable tips would you like a pet parent to take away from this conversation?

Dr. Joe Hill: That's a good question. I think if pet parents have a greater understanding of what the role is like, they may get some insight. So often, you know, people will say, oh, you know, vets are really expensive.

That's the thing I hear. The reality is, is that running a veterinary business is an expensive thing. So, if you're asking a business to, to be there 24 seven and have fully trained staff who are competent and willing to help, it's an expensive thing to do. So, you are paying for this amazing team behind you.

And if you want a good front of house team and you want vet techs who are there on the phone, you want people to pick up is that comes with a cost and vets want to provide it. Pet parents want it, but not all of them want to pay for it. But unfortunately, you can't divorce the two. We all want to provide the best care that we can for, for their pets.

So, if you're worried about money or want to talk about alternatives, just raise it, rather than being quiet and then grumbling later, because there are multiple ways of dealing with stuff. And we're more than happy to talk about them.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And I think honestly, just at the end of the day, just treating people like people, it's not the veterinary personnel's fault for giving you the bill.

So getting mad about a bill is, is kind of silly. And I mean, if we think about this in human aspects, would you ever yell at your dermatologist or your general practitioner or your urgent care doctor that they're charging you for a vaccine or Antibiotics or blood work or any sort of diagnostic tools.

No, you wouldn't, um, because you want to feel better and you want to get the answers. And so. We need to always assume positive intent with our veterinary personnel, um, whether it's the technician, whether it's the receptionist, even the kennel staff, you know, they're doing the best to take care of your pet.

And so really giving people the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, we want to do that with all professions, the fast-food people, they're not trying to screw up your order. You know, veterinarians are not trying to scam you from money. So just treating people like people. And I mean, I know that sounds like super simple, but.

I have never been more yelled at, more belittled, when working in a clinic, than I have in any other job. These are stressful points in people's lives, and so you're dealing with them at, sometimes at their worst, but we are really just trying to help.

Dr. Joe Hill: Absolutely, and I think if you look at the veterinary professional, your pet goes through a surgery, and then you go through a surgery at a hospital, those bills are so far apart, but the level of skill required is just the same.

Yeah, so if you think about other professionals that require that level of training and ultimate responsibility about decisions are made is, is we are not that expensive, relatively. We also, salary wise, are not as well paid. So, there's a lot that comes with it. Um, so I think it's just trying to put all that stuff into perspective.

Jordan Tyler: So, we've talked a lot today about what the problem is and all the things that aren't working with the system that we have in place, but I'd like to end on a more positive note if we can. So, Joe, what gives you hope for the future of the veterinary profession?

Dr. Joe Hill: It's full of people that care passionately about the work that they do, I see undergraduates, they go in with knowing the debt, knowing the problems, knowing the issues, and yet each year there are more applicants than, than the universities can hold. And we also have, you know, owners who care passionately about their animals, so we've got an amazing community of people, people who support, you know, the vet techs, the vet nurses are all driven by wanting to make lives better, and that's a great. It all has purpose.

So, I think if we can develop the non-clinical stuff, I think we can create a really sustainable profession that will help drive the quality of life of so many people and, and their animals, this isn't fantasy land. This is. Tangible, this is real, this is done. I walk into some places and they're just amazing places to work and they get all this stuff right. So, we know it's possible, we know it can be done. It's just trying to make that the norm rather than the exception.

Dr. Frank Niles: There's a niche out there of kind of therapists, counselors and all the rest that focus exclusively on the mental health of veterinarians and vet professionals. That's super important, but my vision would be if we can be proactive Addressing some of the structural challenges that Joe and his research has identified, as well as providing some of the training for leaders.

So, investing in developing future clinical leaders and then business leaders, I think it just elevates and lifts up the entire organization and minimizes challenges. Doesn't eliminate, but reduces the kind of, we need to fix the problem once it's started through mental health care versus, hey, how can we create a more healthy and high performance culture and environment within the industry on the front end?

Dr. Joe Hill: I think that it's, it's so key because lots of this stuff just deals with the aftermath, but actually we need to, we need to tackle the underlying problems. We can't eliminate it, but if we can reduce the occurrence. That it's going to have a significant impact on, on the industry and, and on people staying within it in, in whatever form that is.

And I think that's got to be the key, the key element with the recruitment crisis that's happening in Europe and the US. is retention. It's not that the number of graduates are not being produced, it's just that people aren't staying in the profession. So that's the bit we need to figure out because if we can get the retention higher, lots of the other pressures that parents are aware of will be resolved or be made, you know, a lot more positive than where they are now and have a significant impact.

So that's where we need to work. It's a multi-pronged solution as much as it is a multi-pronged problem.

Jordan Tyler: To close out today’s episode, we have one more story to share from a veterinary nurse who has been practicing for more than 25 years and has some personal advice she’d like to share to the other veterinary professionals tuning in today.

Anonymous Veterinary Professional No. 3: Sometimes there's phases that we go through where we experience a lot of emotional burnout. And to me, when I get that way, the thing that comes to my mind was my very first patient that I assisted on euthanasia, I didn't really know what to expect from that. I knew it was going to be emotional going in there.

And when I feel like I'm starting to get burnt out and really starting to have some issues emotionally, I sit back and I just think about Charlie and I carry him with me all these years. That was where I learned I have a huge asset to share with patients. And that is my aspect of empathy and, you know, my advocacy. I knew that euthanasia was going to be the most humane thing for this particular patient. No matter what treatment looked like, it just wasn't going to be a quality of life. And there was a lot of emotions that go through you as a young vet nurse, and you think that you have this idea that you want to save them all. And we do want to save them all. But what I learned with Charlie Brown was that I did save him through love.

He was a 17 year old chocolate lab and he was owned by an elderly gentleman and that had been his companion for many years after his wife died. I know that the owner was completely, totally broken and I was able to just give him compassion as well as Charlie Brown. And, you know, it's one that I carry with me is that's where I learned to understand that I could help these patients pass with a great level of respect and more importantly than anything, just care, you know, just complete, total love for these guys, even at their end.

That's what lights me back up whenever I start having some really tough emotional days. Because we know that euthanasia isn't always the thing that we want to do, and sometimes it's the only choice there is. And when we look back at our oath we take, we proclaim and profess and carry with us that, you know, we will alleviate pain and suffering.

And sometimes that's just what you have to say to yourself in those types of situations, is that I'm going to alleviate their pain and their suffering. That is the one selfless thing that I can do. And I can do that through love and through affection and try my hardest to make that an easier experience on the owners.

Jordan Tyler: We have covered a lot today. Everything from the personal toll of burnout to the structural challenges that make the veterinary profession so demanding. But if there's one key takeaway, it might be this: burnout isn't just an individual problem. It's a systemic issue and it requires industry wide change.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And while there's no magic fix, there are tangible steps we can take at an individual level, at the clinic level, and across the industry. Whether it's creating healthier workplace cultures, improving leadership training, or just fostering a little more empathy between pet parents and those veterinary professionals. Every small change helps build a more sustainable future for this profession.

Jordan Tyler: And speaking of small changes, if you're a pet parent listening today, you can make a difference too. Remember, veterinarians aren't in this for the money. They're here because they love animals and want to provide the best possible care.

So, show them the same kindness and respect you would any other healthcare provider. Ask questions with curiosity, rather than being accusational. And trust that they're doing their best.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And if you're a vet, a vet tech, or anyone working in this field, we see you. This profession can be incredibly rewarding, but it can also take a serious toll.

You're not alone in this, and you deserve a workplace that supports your well-being. If you're struggling, reach out. Whether that's a trusted colleague, a mentor, or a mental health professional. And if you're in a leadership position, start thinking about ways you can make your clinic a better place to work.

Jordan Tyler: Ultimately, this is about more than just the veterinary profession. It's about ensuring that pets get the care they deserve, that clinics retain great talent, and that the people dedicating their lives to animal health aren't sacrificing their own well-being in the process.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Barking Mad. If you want to learn more about BS M Partners, please visit us at www.bsmpartners.net. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite leading podcast platform, or share it with a friend to stay current on the latest pet industry trends and conversations.

Jordan Tyler: A huge thanks to Doctors Joe Hill and Frank Niles for sharing their insights in today's episode. We'd also like to thank our dedicated team: Ada-Miette Thomas, Neeley Bowden, Kait Wright, Cady Wolf, and Dr. Katy Miller. An extra thank you to Lee Ann Hagerty and Michael Johnson in support of this episode. See you next time!

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