Transcripts
Welcome to the Caring for Carer series, Carer of Many, the inspiring
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:story of one burnt out to thriving Carer.
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:In this episode, I interview Sharon
Gavioli, who shares her story about
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:how she turned her caring journey into
somewhat of a celebration of herself.
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:Sharon is a mother of seven, has a
close relationship with her husband who
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:she's been married to for 39 years, is
a registered nurse, an adult educator, a
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:counsellor, and now manages a team of 17.
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:She also supports businesses to implement
healthcare related strategies to better
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:serve organisations and their employees.
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:And so with this monumental wealth of
experience in caring for others, we
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:thought Sharon was just the person to
speak to about how to do caring well.
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:But it hasn't all been smooth
sailing as Sharon shares.
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:Let's have a listen and find out how she
turned her caring journey around from
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:one that was really draining her physical
and mental health to one that is now very
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:enriching and more productive than ever.
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:Hi, Sharon.
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:Welcome to our special
carers week podcast.
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:Well, first of all,
you're a mother of seven.
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:Sharon Gavioli: That's right.
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:Nicki Bailey: Yes.
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:I said seven.
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:Yeah.
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:And you have, been a registered nurse,
an adult educator, a councillor.
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:Sharon Gavioli: That's correct.
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:Nicki Bailey: And are
currently leading a team of 17.
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:Can you tell us a little bit about
your, I guess, your journey as a
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:carer, um, through, through the years?
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:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, it's a great
question because, you know, when I
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:reflect back, you know, my life's
been all about caring really in,
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:in a number of different roles.
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:Obviously, um, even when I, um, I'm from
a big family, I was one of nine children.
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:And I think I even started back then
in, in some sort of caring role.
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:My mum was quite overwhelmed, um,
with the number of children she had.
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:And I, I was naturally very caring and
so took on a little bit of a caring
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:role in the family there as well.
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:And then when I became a nurse,
obviously that's very much
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:about caring for people as well.
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:I did that in the acute setting,
um, actually looking after
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:patients, you know, in the hospital
setting, for about 20 odd years.
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:Um, but I did get a little bit burnt out
actually around, um, probably caring from
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:a place of taking too much responsibility.
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:And I did that a little bit too and,
um, in having my seven children.
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:And being the main carer because
my, um, partner basically,
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:you know, he was the provider.
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:I did work.
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:I always did work, but I worked part
time where I had my children and
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:coming from a place of caring where
I, you know, probably was taking on
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:a little bit too much responsibility
I got a bit burnt out there as well.
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:Nicki Bailey: It's, um, too
much responsibility is quite
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:common for mothers, isn't it?
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:It's a bit of an epidemic.
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:Sharon Gavioli: It's absolutely
an epidemic, um, with women,
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:um, just generally, and some
women are not even mothers.
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:You know, I think women caring for their
parents or, caring for their friends or
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:caring for people at work, um, there's
this tendency to put ourselves last in it
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:and that we stop taking care of ourselves.
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:And I think that's one of
the big, biggest problems.
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:In that person who is naturally caring
that we, you know, don't know where
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:our boundaries are really Nicki.
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:It's like we, we just take it a bit
too far and leave ourselves behind.
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:And I've seen that too, in my role
as a nurse and watching carers taking
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:care of, you know, quite sick people.
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:Often the carer is just completely
burnt out and in trying to meet
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:all the needs of this person who's
sick and it just doesn't work.
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:That's what I've discovered anyway.
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:It simply doesn't work.
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:Nicki Bailey: Yeah.
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:And, and I, I guess a lot of the
time they, um, carers are managing.
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:Multiple responsibilities, like different
areas of their life are caring, so we
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:could be a manager in the corporate sector
and managing a team of people and in a
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:sense, we're caring for those people,
like, or that would be our true intention.
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:But then we could be caring at home
for our children, and we could be
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:caring for some elderly parents.
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:So, um, You can see how it would be
very easy to get lost in that caring,
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:uh, kind of identity, if you like.
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:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, I think that's
a good way to describe it, Nicki.
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:I think it is an identity that you do take
on, that I'm the carer and people need me.
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:Yeah, I can relate to what you're saying
around because you mentioned that I now
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:manage a team of 17 people and there
is very much a caring element in it.
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:I think, uh, you know, a true manager
or a true leader, it is about making
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:it about the people and supporting.
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:The people, um, to do the very best
they can because, you know, works
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:not just, you know, when you're not
robots, you know, you're people who
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:have lives and things impacting you.
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:So you need to be open to how You
support that person to do the very
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:best they can in the workplace, but
often, um, that's either left behind.
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:I think a lot of managers
don't actually take that part.
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:And then the people feel, um, a little
bit disconnected, um, in their workplace.
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:But I think the identity thing is
huge in the sense that taking on a
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:role that actually I can see from my
past, it gave me a sense of feeling
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:I had some worth that I actually, uh,
I mattered, I suppose, in some way.
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:And I, I really, Yeah, I can see
how I actually took that on from a
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:very young child because I could see
that my mum wasn't quite coping and,
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:you know, I was quite capable and,
you know, would rally the troops.
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:And, yeah, I can see how that's played
out in my life quite a lot, um, in, um,
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:how it happens and, but also particularly
how it particularly happens for women.
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:And, and how, as you mentioned before,
it's happening in so many different
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:aspects of our lives, you know, caring
at work, you know, then you come home
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:and caring at home for the children,
if you've got children or caring for
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:you, you know, your parents or can
be caring for your siblings, it can
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:go, or friends, it can go everywhere.
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:And I think there's a bit of a crossover
between caring and going into what,
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:almost a mothering type role, um,
where we, we slip over into thinking
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:mothering is actually, or caring's
about thinking we have to provide
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:it all and we have to do it all.
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:And that person who we're caring for,
be that our children aren't really
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:almost capable of doing anything.
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:And I think that's fraught
with a whole lot of problems.
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:I was actually talking to my daughter,
who's my youngest daughter is now 17.
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:And she was telling me about, she's
just recently been on a camp and she
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:was over at her boyfriend's place
and she was watching his mum telling
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:him where everything was and he was
asking where things were and, you know,
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:really going into this over drive of
thinking she was caring for him by,
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:you know, helping him out with what
he needed to get ready for this camp.
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:And she came home and she said
to me, mum, you know what,
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:you don't do that with me.
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:She said you just let me sort of,
you know, work out what I need to
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:get because I know where things are.
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:And I know what to do.
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:And because I actually have learned
along the way not to be in the
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:position of, yes, providing care and
support, but not doing something for
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:someone they can do for themselves.
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:And I spoke to her around, what does it do
to somebody when, a carer goes into this
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:overdrive that we have to do everything
for you and we have to show you how to
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:do it, how does that leave the person?
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:And she said it leaves them, she
could feel that left her boyfriend
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:feeling like, like he doesn't know
what to do and he's not capable.
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:And so, yeah, we were just talking
about really this position of where you
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:go into this overdrive as a carer or
in mothering per se, and that, yeah,
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:you're often not doing the person any
favours really, and you're definitely
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:not doing yourself any favours.
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:Nicki Bailey: That's a, that's
a hard thing to transition out
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:of in, in some ways, isn't it?
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:But I guess my question next is what
is the cost to both the person you're
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:caring for who on some level needs some
care, like it's deciding, it's kind of
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:discerning the level of care, isn't it?
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:What's really needed and, and when
that becomes a disempowerment, I guess.
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:So what's the cost to that person?
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:And then what's the cost to you
as the carer when you overcare?
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:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, I suppose in that
example, I think I just started to say
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:the cost to that person is they can just
like you said, can feel disempowered,
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:start to take on a bit of belief.
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:I can't do it.
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:I need someone to take care of me.
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:But you're right around what you just
said, Nicki, there's a difference
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:between what I would say is sort of
reading or feeling what's needed because
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:with my daughter with this trip she
did need a little bit of support, you
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:know, um, around a couple of areas,
but it was around, you know, obviously
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:she's at the age where she could come
to us and ask, could we support her
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:in these certain things, which we
did, I think, uh, for, uh, you know,
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:when you're bringing up children, it's
around that parent or mother, um, you
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:know, feeling where that child's at
and it's very different for each child.
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:You know, I wouldn't say with each of
my children, they will say, just say
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:around, you know, they need support
with, you know, food and, and, um,
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:you know, all the little things, you
know, being getting dressed and as a
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:little, but just finding that moment
or that time where you can feel that
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:they're ready to take that next step.
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:And that you can feel you
don't need to stay involved.
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:You know, you don't need to keep doing
it for them because the key thing there
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:is you need to look at what you're
getting out of it, if you want to keep
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:doing it and, and letting that child
almost lead the way, or the person to
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:lead the way, like my daughter, um,
she knows that she can come to us to
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:ask for the support when she needs it,
but she also knows now that we trust
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:her to do what she can for herself.
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:And I think that's with
children, you can do that.
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:But I also have seen in that more, um,
carer, like looking after someone, I've
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:actually had, um, my mum and my sister
both, um, be diagnosed with cancer,
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:leukemia, which they have passed over
from, but in that process, there was also
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:that fine line that they absolutely did
need a lot of care and a lot of support
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:because physically they weren't able to,
but it was always for me checking in with
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:them around, what they felt they needed.
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:But at the same time, checking in
with me around what I could offer.
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:And if I couldn't offer it, and
there were times I couldn't, um,
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:because my, particularly my sister
used to get very anxious at night
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:when she was in the hospital and
she wanted someone to stay with her.
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:And I just knew if I didn't get to bed
at a reasonable time, I had learned that
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:I would be, I couldn't really offer her
any true care, but the next day, um, so
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:that was something I couldn't offer her.
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:And I'd just be clear with her
that I couldn't offer her that.
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:And so I think part of that
is being clear with the person
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:around what you can actually do.
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:And, um, yeah, having that clear lines
of communication, I suppose, Nicki,
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:but also to, I think, helping them
understand why they may feel like
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:they need that care, because sometimes
people want people to care for them
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:too, because, like I mentioned, they're
frightened or they're, um, you know,
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:there's something else going on for them.
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:It's a bit like the same for the carer.
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:The carer has a little bit of a
underlying agenda sometimes that
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:you need to look at within yourself
around what's my motivation.
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:Why am I feeling like I
have to almost kill myself?
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:I, yeah, I was like that as
a mother in the beginning.
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:I felt like I had to no matter
what keep going and keep pushing
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:myself to the expense of myself.
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:And with someone are depending on the
situation, you know, checking in with
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:that person, you know, what might be
really going on for them if they are
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:sort of, you know, demanding a level
of care that might not be, um, you
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:know, really truly what's needed.
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:Does that make sense?
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:Nicki Bailey: It does.
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:And you can, you can feel it
even with quite young children.
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:I find my daughter's seven and
say, for example, she's been
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:practicing her shoelaces, with
a grandparent or someone else.
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:And she's been very capable of doing it.
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:Like she, she learned how
to do it over the holiday.
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:And then she comes home and, and
she's, does it for a day because she's
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:enthusiastic and then something goes on
and it's like, mom, can you do it quick,
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:you know, rushing for the bus or whatever.
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:And you can feel the resistance to, to
kind of, I guess, going there to, to
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:growing up a little bit on some level.
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:I mean, that's just two laces,
but, um, yeah, and it's, it's
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:really managing that, isn't it?
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:Being able to go, well, no, instead
of going into the mother's guilt.
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:Which is so common.
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:Sharon Gavioli: Oh yeah,
the mother's guilt.
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:I could write a, an essay, more than,
I could write a book on it actually.
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:Yeah.
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:Yep.
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:Nicki Bailey: I, I would love that.
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:Sharon Gavioli: Book on mother's guilt.
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:Yeah.
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:Nicki Bailey: Mother of seven would
be the perfect, perfect author.
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:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, absolutely.
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:Nicki Bailey: Um, yeah, but like
managing our own response to their
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:reactions when they are digging
their heels in basically as well.
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:Isn't that too, in order to bring
more self care to ourselves to
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:be able to care more for them?
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:Sharon Gavioli: Absolutely.
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:It's a two way street.
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:Absolutely.
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:Yeah.
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:And I think that's Nicki is, you know,
instead of sometimes mum's, Particularly
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:can go into it, I'll just do it, you
know, 'cause we're busy and quick
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:and whatever, but without actually
stopping and it is a feeling thing.
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:Do you know what I mean?
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:It is a little bit of going,
okay, what is really needed
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:in this moment for that child?
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:Is it supportive to actually tie her
shoelaces and maybe sometimes it might be,
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:but in other times it could be no, what
she really needs right now is actually
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:just to be supported and encouraged to do
it herself and given the space to do that.
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:And I think that happens a lot as a child.
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:Um, is growing up, you know, they,
they will want to have a go and then
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:they might sort of get a little bit,
Oh, this, it is about growing up and
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:that can feel a bit scary at time,
both for the child and the mother.
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:Because as a parent, you can be a little
bit attached to your children staying
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:little or actually attached to the
mothering role because if you get a bit
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:of that identity that you spoke about
before, you know, I'm the mother and as a
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:woman sort of really lost herself as still
being a woman who's actually a mother.
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:So we've sort of merged ourselves in
just to being the mother and we're
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:getting very identified and we're
getting a sense of what I call what
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:I used to get a sense of worth.
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:I used to get my worth from
what I could do for my children.
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:And until I started unpack that my
worth has nothing to do with anything
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:I do at all, it's something in
night within me that doesn't change.
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:And that did take a bit of a
process to unravel all that.
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:But it's the same thing with our
children or people we're caring for.
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:It is around supporting and empowering
them to actually know their own
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:abilities and to know that they
have everything they need to be in
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:life and we're just here to support.
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:So it's really probably true caring
is offering true support for the
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:person to support them to do what
they can and feel in each moment, you
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:know, what's needed in that moment.
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:You know, sometimes my daughter, like she
has certain things she needs to do around
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:the house as part of her contribution,
we all contribute to the household,
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:but at times, you know, I can feel she
needs some support with something if
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:there's a lot going on with her life.
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:So I'll come in and do that in that time.
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:Does that make sense?
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:And just like sometimes I might have a
lot going on in my life, maybe at work or
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:something going on for me personally, then
someone else can come in and support me.
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:You know what I mean?
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:It's, it's, it's very fluid.
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:I think the thing, there's no rules.
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:It's not about a rule.
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:It's about feeling really what's
needed, but we can't get to that
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:as carers or as parents until we
actually know ourselves first, and
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:we have to unpack that in ourselves.
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:Nicki Bailey: And you can see
that in the workplace too.
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:Like I know for myself when I'm
challenged with a new learning a new
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:skill or stepping up in some way.
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:I want, I want the support of somebody,
but I'm sometimes trying to grasp on a
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:little bit too tight because I don't want
to let go of the railing, so to speak,
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:and there may be a person in the team,
and it could be the other way around.
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:I could, somebody could
be coming to me with that.
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:And it's like, it's okay, we're here.
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:We're kind of got the net, the
trampoline there underneath you.
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:Um, but you need to actually be the
baby bird and fly off the ledge.
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:Sharon Gavioli: I love that.
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:I actually had this happened at work,
um, with this team because I'm fairly,
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:I'm only five weeks in this new job.
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:And, um, there's a bit of change
that has to come fairly quickly.
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:It's changes coming outside of me from
another, you know, another funding body.
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:And I was just speaking with the team in a
meeting around, you know, what this change
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:is and getting their feedback on it and,
you know, taking them with me with it.
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:Cause change can be really huge for
people, very unsettling as you're
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:saying, and we can want to hang on.
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:And after the meeting, I just
noticed one of the women, she's
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:something was not right with her.
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:And, um, I went in, I said, are you okay?
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:And she just breaks down in tears.
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:And she was just feeling super
overwhelmed, um, with, and it wasn't
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:huge, this thing that was being asked off.
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:It's just, it's just one small
piece and we just unpacked it.
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:And what it got down to is that
she puts a lot of pressure on
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:herself to get things right.
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:And do it really right.
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:And she felt what was being asked
was putting a pressure on her
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:to do it quicker or something.
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:And, um, yeah, it was just really
interesting just taking the
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:time to unpack that with her.
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:And to provide that support in
understanding where she's coming from.
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:And then we can have a way
forward how to work with that.
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:Does that make sense?
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:So I think a key part of this as
we're talking, Nicki, is really
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:communicating, actually expressing
to each other around what's going on.
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:And I think something, feel that
something we don't always do so well,
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:you know, we actually think it to
ourselves, but we don't actually say
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:it, you know, just say the case of your
daughter and the shoelaces, you know,
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:having a conversation with her around
that, you know, how are you feeling?
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:I know you've been practicing
your shoe laces, you know, are you
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:not feeling so confident today?
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:Or you know, what's going on?
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:You know, and, and then we get to it,
and then we get somewhere together.
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:Nicki Bailey: Mm, yeah.
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:Mm.
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:And I think as mothers, I mean, you
know, as a mother of seven, I've only
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:got one daughter.Just hats off and I
do not know how you would do seven.
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:I think that's probably the question
on everyone's mind, but I guess in
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:that like what like being Able to
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:Um, sorry, there's a thing that
comes up with, I think, all parents.
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:It's like, it's easier
to just do it for them.
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:And or it could be even a manager, like
sometimes with my team, I'm like, it's
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:easier if I just do it with them, but
I'm learning to go, no, teach them the
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:skills, like that is a great, um, gift
to them if I bring with that patience,
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:whether it is a child or a colleague.
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:Um, it's a great gift.
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:Absolutely.
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:Anyone.
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:Anyone.
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:That's right.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:But letting go of that control, I guess.
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:Sharon Gavioli: It's huge.
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:And with the control, Nicki,
you're letting go of the
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:identification with the role.
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:You know what I mean?
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:And what you're doing is you're asking
everyone to be everything they are.
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:You know, you're asking them to bring
all that they can to the table, which
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:is so beautiful when that happens.
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:And I've very much have kept
transitioned out of what that particular
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:pattern you've spoken about where
I go, Oh, well, I'll just do it.
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:You know what I mean?
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:It's quicker.
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:It's easier to very much that, that
role more of just supporting and
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:showing and then at some point, as
you said earlier, you know, just
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:going, okay, it's your time to fly
now, but it's okay to make mistakes.
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:You know what I mean?
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:It's okay.
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:You don't have to be perfect in it.
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:And, and it's like, you're really,
we're developing people, but in
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:that we're developing ourselves too.
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:You know, we're sort of learning together.
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:Yeah.
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:That's what I really love about that.
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:Nicki Bailey: And it's so beautiful when
it, when they do feel the support and they
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:do jump off the ledge and fly, it's, they
feel safe that you're there because you've
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:delivered in a way that, um, they can feel
that they're not on their own with it.
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:And then it's easier
going forward, isn't it?
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:But it's, it's kind of
from the carer first to go.
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:To let go of the reins, so to speak.
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:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, the carer
definitely has to let go of the reins
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:and the thinking that we're the ones,
because I used to be the, I used
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:to think, you know, I'm the only
one that can really do it properly.
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:I see that a lot too, you know,
and I need you to need me.
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:And so that they're the key things that
you need to look at and let go of, and
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:you need to see that person as be that,
you know, a child, your partner, your
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:parents, you know, someone who's not
well in your life, your staff, whoever
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:that may be, you need to see them at that
within them, they actually are capable.
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:And, and they have everything that
they need, but sometimes they just
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:need that support just to bring it
out in saying that, you know, all
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:of us are different and we all have
different strengths and we don't have
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:to be all good at the same thing.
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:I'm very strong at this at my work.
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:I say a great team is
a team where we're all.
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:Working from our strengths and
supporting each other in the
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:areas that we're not so strong at.
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:And I think that's a really
great way to work together.
388
:So we don't all have to be the same
as such, but we do need to actually
389
:provide everyone with the opportunity
to bring what they have to the table.
390
:And that's what parenting is.
391
:You know, it's like you're seeing that
that child has everything they need within
392
:them and that you're there just to support
them and to guide them to bring that out.
393
:Yeah, not to do it all for them
or tell them how it should be or
394
:mold them how you want them to be.
395
:That's, I think, something
that parents can sometimes do.
396
:It's like, you know, you're
there walking beside them.
397
:And I think all carers, be that in any
of those roles, you're walking beside
398
:someone in preference to actually,
like almost being a top off or a
399
:head off, you know, that almost I'm
a bit better than sort of position
400
:because it's in not equal in the, um,
the sense of, uh, the relationship.
401
:Yeah.
402
:So walking beside someone is very much
that you're equally walking together and
403
:you're offering each other something.
404
:Nicki Bailey: And so if you let
go of some of that identity and
405
:that, um, you know, you can end
up feeling quite empty with that.
406
:So what are some, because, and
also, um, bringing the other person
407
:to your equal, it can feel quite,
a bit discombobulating, I guess.
408
:Sharon Gavioli: Yeah, it can.
409
:Very much so.
410
:Nicki Bailey: Being able to support
that person with more space and
411
:everything we've talked about.
412
:How, like, how did you do it?
413
:Because you, I've seen photos of you from
when you were raising your children and
414
:to how you are today, and you look 20
years younger than you did 20 years ago.
415
:Sharon Gavioli: Nicki,
I feel 20 years younger.
416
:Nicki Bailey: It's such an amazing
transformation to be, but to be able
417
:to let go of that, um, holding of
that, um, over- caring to being someone
418
:that can care for so many and still,
you know, deeply care for herself.
419
:Yeah.
420
:Like what are some practical things
that you have learned along the way?
421
:Sharon Gavioli: Well, it's been quite
a journey and it's not something
422
:that happens overnight, Nicki.
423
:It is.
424
:I had to really start looking at all
the things I thought were true about me.
425
:I had to, like, I realized I'd taken
on a lot of what I call ideals and
426
:beliefs around how I should be.
427
:As a mother or as a partner,
and I started slowly just
428
:seeing them for what they were.
429
:I probably biggest thing for me was I
knew something wasn't right because no
430
:matter how much I was caring or doing I
always felt like I was never quite enough.
431
:I always felt like I failed to be honest.
432
:And that would put me in a cycle of
like trying again and again and again.
433
:Like I'd sort of go, Oh God, you know,
you failed again, you're stuffed up.
434
:And then basically I, what I do is
regather and then try even harder.
435
:And it was getting me nowhere.
436
:Like I was getting, obviously,
as you said, I was about 25
437
:kilos heavier than I am now.
438
:I was sick.
439
:I was getting like a flu every two weeks.
440
:I had a thyroid issue.
441
:I had an adrenal issue.
442
:I was really unwell.
443
:And I think one of the key things
was starting to look at the way
444
:I was living just wasn't true.
445
:You know, it just wasn't working.
446
:I had to be honest.
447
:It wasn't working.
448
:That's the first step.
449
:Unless you're honest, it's not working.
450
:You're not going to go anywhere.
451
:Yes.
452
:I had to get honest with my myself.
453
:And obviously my body was being honest
with me, but I wasn't always listening.
454
:Yeah.
455
:So I started then I just slowly started
to unpick all the things I thought was
456
:true around having to do everything
and be everything for everybody.
457
:And then the next step I did I actually,
um, had been involved with some, uh, a
458
:group that was around supporting women to
understand what true self care was, what
459
:self nurturing is, what self worth was.
460
:And I remember someone said to me
all you need to do is self nurture.
461
:And I walked away and I went, I
have no idea what these, I, I,
462
:it was like these words, but I
had no concept of self nurture.
463
:It was foreign to me, completely foreign.
464
:So I started pretty slowly.
465
:Firstly, I had to be a bit more
self loving and self love is
466
:actually starting to say no to the
things that don't really feel true.
467
:So I started to say no to
foods that didn't support me.
468
:I started to say no to
staying up super late.
469
:I used to think a lot of mothers
think that they have to stay
470
:up after the kids go to bed.
471
:Once they all got to bed, and I had
a lot of kids, so it was quite late
472
:by the time most of them got to bed.
473
:So I'd get the telly, and on
certain nights I'd have the chips
474
:and the chocolate together, and
that would be my idea of me time.
475
:You know, there I was just sort of
zoned out in front of the TV, and I'd
476
:stay up till about 11, 30, 12 o'clock
at night, and then fall into bed.
477
:And one of the things I changed
is starting to go to bed earlier.
478
:It was really simple.
479
:I just realized I had to let
go of the me time thinking and
480
:thinking me time is actually going
to bed and getting enough sleep.
481
:So that, uh, that changed my life.
482
:Like you wouldn't believe.
483
:I can't tell you, just going to bed.
484
:Something goes simple, you know, and
slowly I started to get getting up.
485
:I started to go.
486
:I was able to get up earlier because I
wasn't eating food that was You know,
487
:making me feel really heavy gave away
the chips and the chocolate, you know
488
:that's been an ongoing journey that didn't
happen overnight and there are times, you
489
:know, I fall back in in certain things
with foods yeah, so, um, no perfection
490
:there for sure but other things I did
one of the key things I did is I was a
491
:five minute wonder getting dressed I used
to pride myself on I could slap myself
492
:together in five minutes And I actually
decided, I had heard how important it
493
:is to set up your day, like take time,
give yourself space in the morning.
494
:So what I did, I started taking a shower
in the morning and I shower at the night.
495
:I have two showers a day, but the shower
in the morning was something for me.
496
:The warmth of the water on me, and then
I would actually just take time to just
497
:get ready, you know, you know, not super
long, but I went from five minutes to
498
:about a half an hour, and I actually
shut the door on my children because I
499
:started this when I still my children was,
you know, I still had younger children,
500
:and they were really upset in the
beginning because I was so used to being
501
:able to just always have access to me.
502
:Um, but I actually said no, that I
needed this space in the morning and,
503
:um, that really changed my life as well
and I, uh, started that probably about
504
:10 years ago and I keep that up to today.
505
:That's one of my solids.
506
:In my every day, I do that every single
day, having my shower, you know, I've got
507
:a chair in my bathroom, I sit down, I've
got a mirror, you know, magnifying because
508
:the eyesight's not as good as it used to
be and where I actually, you know, apply
509
:even if it's not a lot, you know, could
be just my moisturizer if it's a weekend
510
:and I just take time for me and yeah,
just giving myself space was just huge.
511
:And even though the kids, and even my
husband did, you know, um, get a little
512
:bit, um, they reacted a bit, I suppose,
though used to me being self sacrificing,
513
:you know, uh, on 24, on 24 seven.
514
:So naturally they reacted and I
understood, you know what I mean?
515
:You know, it's like suddenly I was
changing the rules of engagement.
516
:Just little things Nicki over
time and that just increased and
517
:I just weeded out any pockets
of feeling that I wasn't worthy.
518
:Yeah.
519
:You know, and that still continues today.
520
:You know, there's still little pockets
where I'll go, Oh, I think I'm doing that
521
:because I want someone to recognize me
and why don't I feel enough just being me.
522
:So, yeah, it's been a beautiful
process and like my home life
523
:now, oh my god, when I think about
it, it's completely transformed.
524
:Everyone cooks, everyone cleans, everyone,
everyone contributes, I've got two
525
:older children who still live at home.
526
:Every single person contributes.
527
:I feel like I'm still a mother,
but I'm now a woman who's a mother.
528
:I'm not just a mother, or a sister, or
a manager, or a carer of my, you know,
529
:when my sister and my mum were sick.
530
:I'm not just that for them.
531
:I am someone who makes me a true
priority because I deserve it.
532
:And there's something inside
me that deeply needs honoring.
533
:And when I honor that, it makes all the
other things super or so much easier.
534
:You know, that reading we
were talking about or feeling
535
:what's needed in that moment.
536
:It's only possible from all of
those other steps that I've taken.
537
:Does that make sense?
538
:Yeah, it wouldn't have
been possible without that.
539
:Nicki Bailey: Yeah, and there's
such a beautiful reflection then
540
:for all the other people in your,
your life, particularly the girls
541
:and women who, you know, everything
else in society is telling them to
542
:be that carer that's on tap 24 7.
543
:But what you can offer all your
children is, and the boys as well.
544
:Sharon Gavioli: Oh God,
yes, the boys very much so.
545
:Yeah, yeah.
546
:Nicki Bailey: Yeah.
547
:We're seeing, we're working a
lot with dads at the moment.
548
:Um, there's a lot of dads that
are taking on a lot more caring
549
:responsibilities and they, I can see
a tendency for them wanting to be
550
:the super dads, like the super mums.
551
:Absolutely.
552
:And kind of going, going into over caring.
553
:And, and because, uh, You know, in, in
some ways they may have been guilted
554
:into it or whatnot, but they have
to find their own with that as well.
555
:And what they can offer in terms of
a reflection to their children and,
556
:um, you know, their teams at work.
557
:Sharon Gavioli: Oh, absolutely.
558
:I've seen that, um, happen in
my own with my own husband.
559
:He was very much that
man, the breadwinner.
560
:Out there and left a lot of the house.
561
:I took it on because, you
know, we, we, there's no blame.
562
:That's what I've discovered too,
Nicki, that's been very super
563
:freeing is not to blame anyone for
the circumstances I ended up in.
564
:They were almost self created to,
for me, not to feel the lack of
565
:self worth I had, to be honest.
566
:And I was playing the roles
to try and fill those spaces
567
:where I felt a bit empty.
568
:And so it's been a bit of a journey
for him too, with me changing or, you
569
:know, embracing more of the woman first.
570
:He's had to readjust him himself too.
571
:And it was interesting.
572
:He went into a little bit of the, uh,
where I let go of some of the stuff
573
:and asked the children to step up.
574
:He went into a little bit of
overcompensating and doing a
575
:little bit too much for them.
576
:And he's now starting to come
out of that himself to find,
577
:you know, his way with that.
578
:That truly supports both of them.
579
:So no, you know, there's no resentment.
580
:It's interesting.
581
:That's another thing I used to
feel a lot of resentment guilt.
582
:I've spoke about, I
used to feel resentment.
583
:If you're feeling any resentment,
you know, you're not doing that
584
:from a place of true support.
585
:Yeah.
586
:It's when I, yeah, that was my key marker.
587
:If I felt resentment or, you
know, got angry or whatever, I
588
:knew that I had overstepped the
mark, it wasn't anybody else.
589
:It was me that had done that to myself.
590
:And, um, that's a good marker even
now, if I ever get a little bit, I've
591
:overstepped the mark and probably done
a little bit too much that wasn't quite
592
:true, I can feel that resentment come
and I go, oh, okay, I can see where
593
:I've, you know, just probably fallen back
into something that wasn't quite right.
594
:Or true.
595
:Nicki Bailey: And you can really feel
it as the person being cared for when
596
:somebody is coming from a place of
resentment and when their care is true.
597
:Like I've seen, um, there's someone in
my life who is ill and, um, we, there's
598
:different approaches to how me and a
couple of others care for that person.
599
:And I've seen their response to,
um, myself and how I care for her,
600
:which is, you know, without the
heaviness and without the resentment,
601
:like I'll only support when I can.
602
:And I'm like, I, and I can feel the
judgment from the others when I say no,
603
:no, but I have to be steady with that
because otherwise I know I then go to that
604
:person who we're caring for and I go with
a, um, I just don't want to be there in
605
:that moment because I feel like I'm being
forced on some level, you know, and even
606
:if it's myself forcing, it's still, they
can feel it and they don't, I, and this
607
:person, um, will, react like the person
that's being cared for because they can
608
:feel that I'm not as my light, you know,
genuinely wanting to be in their presence,
609
:you know, so they can feel it as well.
610
:Sharon Gavioli: That is so true, Nicki.
611
:Um, it's almost, I've got
another sister who's not well
612
:at the moment and I've just.
613
:Um, it's like when we go more out
of obligation is what you're talking
614
:about or feeling we have to, and I
think, you know, there can be a lot
615
:of obligation in mothering or in
caring in preference to just bringing
616
:what we truly feel in that moment.
617
:And with that, just like you
mentioned, there's a lightness.
618
:And there's always a joy in it.
619
:I know with this particular sister
when I, I have gone at times out
620
:of obligation because she doesn't
really have too many people in her
621
:life and it's, she can feel it.
622
:And we both walk away
feeling yuck to be honest.
623
:Yeah.
624
:And when, when what you're
saying, when you honor what's
625
:true, there's a lightness.
626
:And it's almost when we, when I go like
that with it, there's a joy, even though
627
:she's in a difficult circumstance,
there's more joy and more love.
628
:Yes, it's absolutely true
what you're saying there.
629
:It's very true.
630
:Nicki Bailey: The opposite of hard work.
631
:Sharon Gavioli: It is the
absolute opposite of hard work.
632
:Yeah.
633
:Nicki Bailey: And you feel the purpose
of why you're there and yeah, the joy.
634
:Exactly.
635
:Sharon Gavioli: And then,
you know, it's interesting.
636
:There still can be lots to do.
637
:Like I have a really busy life now.
638
:An actual fact, I'm probably
busier than I was in lots of ways.
639
:Um,
640
:Nicki Bailey: With seven children.
641
:Sharon Gavioli: Well,
642
:Nicki Bailey: Seven young children.
643
:Wow.
644
:Sharon Gavioli: It's, it's,
it's, it's a different busy.
645
:Um, it's, my life is very full
because I do have 17 people I
646
:lead, um, and they can sometimes
behave like children to be honest.
647
:And I have, even though most of
my children have grown up now, I
648
:still have the relationships with
them and I do volunteer work.
649
:And so I have a very, very full life.
650
:So I wouldn't say I have had a life
where, your kids are grown and you can
651
:settle back, I suppose is what I'm saying.
652
:I still have a very full life.
653
:Where there's a lot of caring still in it.
654
:There's a lot of caring still in my
life And I'm about to be a grandma
655
:next year as well for the first time
656
:Nicki Bailey: Congratulations.
657
:Sharon Gavioli: Thank you.
658
:Yeah.
659
:Yeah So Yeah, it's yeah all
the things I've spoken about
660
:still much very much apply today
661
:Nicki Bailey: Yeah.
662
:And I think everything you've spoken
about as well is, is so inspiring because
663
:there's a lot of women that will get to,
I know, um, with my own mother, get to
664
:the end of that child rearing years and
they do feel like they need to settle
665
:back because they haven't honored, you
know, what's needed in that, in that
666
:time when we were growing up necessarily.
667
:And so it gives us a, uh, I guess if
you look at our whole life, you know,
668
:we live a lot of us up to the age of 80.
669
:What if we do finish off at, you
know, the end of when the child leaves
670
:home, we, we've got a life that we're
kind of then just, I don't know, not
671
:feeling as, um, alive with, I guess,
because we've over the years let
672
:that, um, do you know what I'm saying?
673
:Sharon Gavioli: I know
exactly what you're saying.
674
:I think there's two ways what can happen
there is that there can be that step
675
:back and, you know, just sort of have,
you know, a little bit of checkout
676
:time, a little bit of settle down,
relax time, not do as much in life.
677
:I see another thing happened to, I
think, uh, particularly for mothers, this
678
:happens where they stay too involved with
their children and hang on to mothering,
679
:or the caring, because they're still
getting their sense of who they are from
680
:that, or that can transfer into over
caring and other arenas in their lives.
681
:It's really interesting.
682
:You say that I was just saying this to
my husband, cause my kids say to me,
683
:you must be lonely now we're all gone.
684
:I'm going on.
685
:No, there's not one ounce
of loneliness in my life.
686
:My life feels so purposeful, so
full and I've allowed my children to
687
:actually move into their own lives.
688
:I haven't hung on to their lives or
I'm there very much to support them,
689
:but I let them go in their own lives.
690
:And actually do, you know, have their
experiences, you know, not try and
691
:prevent anything, you know, sometimes
we try and prevent our children having
692
:unpleasant experiences or falling.
693
:And because, you know, we don't want
them to experience what we've done,
694
:whereas I'm more, I'll share with them
you know, potentially what might be
695
:there, but I very much let them, um, go
in their own lives and something else
696
:I was reflecting on the other day, too
I felt after I had grown up, I felt
697
:very responsible for my mother's life.
698
:I can feel her unhappiness and I
did go into obligation to visit her
699
:and, you know, want to do things
for her to make her feel better.
700
:And I just was feeling the other
day, my children have none of that.
701
:They know I'm completely okay.
702
:They don't, they're not, I don't
need anyone to be responsible for me.
703
:That I'm actually leading
a full purposeful life.
704
:And I think that's a beautiful gift you
can give your children too, as they grow
705
:up that, you know, there isn't that sense
of obligation to me or my, my husband as,
706
:um, you know, as their parents, um, and
that freedom then for them to live their
707
:own lives, I think it's a real a really
great way forward that, um, not everyone's
708
:currently understanding or living.
709
:Nicki Bailey: That feels like the
perfect end to this interview.
710
:Um, Sharon Gavioli, you were
such an inspiration, um, carer
711
:of many, uh, If you've got seven
children and a team of 17, it just
712
:shows us that anyone can do this.
713
:Um, and I would really love to
thank you for sharing everything you
714
:have today, because I'm sure that
it will offer many people at some,
715
:some real practical tips on how they
can support themselves as carers.
716
:Sharon Gavioli: Thanks so much, Nicki.
717
:It was really lovely just sharing it
actually and it's what's been so lovely
718
:about it for me is sometimes as women
we don't always stop and appreciate
719
:enough and I can actually feel just
from the opportunity to speak to you
720
:about it, you know, how much I've got
to celebrate and appreciate in my life.
721
:So thank you for the opportunity.