We argue that Stanley Kubrick's The Killing is undermined by intrusive, frequently inaccurate narration. JJ found the narration distracting and it often contradicted the dialogue, which made the plot harder to follow. We note the film is short and follows a conventional heist structure that feels more like a studio picture than later Kubrick work. JJ disliked the black and white presentation and some clumsy dialogue, though we praised Marie Windsor as the strongest performer. Alec rated the film a three and saw it as an early demonstration of craft; JJ rated it one and a half and found it largely unengaging. We conclude that The Killing is an uneven, awkward film that will mainly interest Kubrick completists or viewers studying his development.

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Is the killings narration dicked and they're like oh yeah, it's inaccurate.

And I was like off and I just quit reading.

So I didn't even get to the part where they explained why I was like I'm so mad.

Welcome to the what's up podcast where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and Jerry.

My name is JJ Carter.

I'm here with my co host Alec Burgess.

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But yeah.

Anyway, we are well and good into September and we the the month of Kubrick.

Kubrick month.

September.

Kubrick September, whatever.

But yeah, we're a couple of weeks left this one and one more and we'll see how it goes.

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And yeah, there it is.

Let's get into this week's movie.

It is the Killing.

It was released on oh my mouse did not want to work there.

It was written and directed by Stanley Kubrick.

It stars Sterling Hayden, Colleen gray, Vince Edwards, JC Flippin, Ted DeCorcio, Marie Windsor, Elisha Cook, Joe Sawyer, Timothy Carey and James Edwards.

It's about a crook, Johnny Clay, who assembles a five man team to plan and execute a daring racetrack robbery.

Boy, they like pretty accurate.

The.

They like to keep the Kubrick synopsis synopses to a minimum, huh?

So far, yeah.

Alec, this was your pick.

Tell me why, other than to torture my ass.

Another reason this was to torture JJ Black and white, lots of exposition in it, narration that not always accurate to the story.

But it also, it almost feels like this is the one where Kubrick like his thesis almost right, where he shows I know how to make a movie because this is very cookie cutter Hollywood, fills the fills kind of progression of a story.

This is, this is not a Kubrick film that we know and love.

And this almost feels like, see, I can do it now.

Let me do what I want to do.

Almost saying, I know what I'm doing behind a camera.

I can direct something.

I can make a good story and go through, check all the boxes, right?

And then one studio saw that.

It's like, okay, he does know what he's doing.

Then he was like, cool, I'm never making a normal movie ever again.

And he went off.

Boy, that's fair.

And so this to me is the most in a box Kubrick film.

Like it does, it doesn't feel like Kubrick.

Yeah.

And this is also the vantage point that I think Eyes Wide Shut would have been better if you filmed it similar to this.

Fair.

So.

But yeah, mostly it was torture.

J.J. yeah.

Success.

But I will say this, you're lucky.

It's like under 90 minutes.

It's the best part of the movie.

But you had, you'd seen this one before.

No, I had not.

1.

I'm not like a seek out Kubrick kind of guy.

Like, I've watched his films, especially like his big ones because I'm a film lover and I've taken film classes and you know what I mean, in schools.

And so I was like, you gotta watch some of them.

One is a, it's a film class, half to watch type deal along with, you know, some of his other stuff.

But this one I had not watched.

One, I'm not a big fan of black and white.

And two, I.

While I'm okay with black and white, if it's a good movie, Kubrick has Never been one that I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go watch a mo.

A Kubrick movie, which is a coin flip for me anyway, with.

And I feel like a weighted coin flip sometimes.

And.

And, you know.

And listen, we're in.

I live in the world, even when I was a kid, where we have, you know, Ocean's Eleven.

And so if I want to watch a heist movie, and I'm not even just talking about, like, the new versions, I'm talking about even the original Ocean's Eleven with the Brat or the Rat Pack.

And so, yeah, if I'm gonna watch a heist movie, it's gonna be one of those.

Not this.

So I. Yeah, I had never seen it before.

I had heard of it.

I knew what it was.

I knew all the criticisms, and yet I knew all the, you know, the praise it got, too.

Which I don't agree with.

Like, a lot of people call a tightly filmed.

I kept trying to remember, but I see, I've read some reviews where it's like, this film's tight until the point.

I'm like, dude, it's an hour and, like, 25 minutes or some.

Like, it has to be tight and to the point.

Like, you can't make.

That's.

That's.

And I get that It's.

I.

So I sometimes wonder.

And listen, hit me in the comments.

Tell me what you think.

If you're.

If you disagree with me, I'm okay with that.

But I feel like, like you said, Kubrick was coming up, and he's trying to get himself on the map and trying to figure it out.

So he stuck to this really short.

Because there's not another film in his filmography that's shorter than two hours.

And back then, that was unheard of.

But there's a goddamn intermission in that movie even to this day.

So.

And I think it's more like an hour and 30 minutes.

But anyway.

Yeah, but it's.

It's a very, very short movie by Kubrick standards.

Correct.

So it's it.

That's why whenever, like, I like to watch it because it's like, this is what he showed everybody.

Yeah, it's like the bait and switch.

Right?

He's like, look, I can make movies.

They said, cool, go make us a movie.

And then he just flipped a light switch and he's like, yeah, you.

Yeah, no, let me break the mold on this.

No, but here's it.

So.

And I'll tell you what.

I.

It opens with the whole narration.

And where I'm like, okay, we got an opening narration.

Fine.

The first time we get the middle of the movie, I'm like, what the.

Because it's not even, like, character style, like, where they're talking.

Like, we don't even get his perspective.

Like, it's like, literally, like, I'm reading a book.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, you.

Like, I was so mad, dude.

I. I was so mad.

And then I.

And then I.

Like, I said.

I went.

And I was looking at reviews, and people are like, this movie's great.

I'm like, you.

The narration alone knocks massive points off for me because it's distracting.

To your point, it's not always correct.

Like, it's.

I'm like, wait a minute.

So do we have an unreliable, literal, unreliable narrator or.

And if so, why.

Who even is the narrator?

And why would he be unreliable 2 if he's not part of the movie?

Meaning the cat, like, the.

If he's not part of the story.

So therefore doesn't have the reasoning that most unreliable narrators have, then Kubrick up somewhere.

Right.

Like, and he didn't have the budget to go back and fix it.

Anyway.

Pissed me off.

What I read about this, because.

Okay, same thing is that the studio made Kubrick do it to help, like, audiences stay connected with all the different views happening.

And he didn't want to do it, so he purposely made it inaccurate.

Of course he did.

So that he filled the requirement of adding the narration.

What a dude.

Just to decide, say, you.

And made it inaccurate at the same time.

What a douche.

So I don't know if that's true, but that's what I read, is that he was.

The studio was making him put it in, and he didn't like that, so he decided to put it in in his own way and make it accurate.

So.

My God.

That he could check that box for the studio but still keep his.

His vision of what he wanted.

Yeah.

Hated it.

And so, yeah, there's.

There's parts where you have to be like, wait a minute.

That doesn't.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah, and I'll.

Listen.

I'll be honest.

I was watching this while I was doing other.

Because, like, I knew it was going to be a struggle for me, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna watch.

Because it's cubic.

I'm either bored or I'm confused or both.

And so I was like, I'm not.

Okay.

So.

So on top of that, like I would be.

The narration would go off and I'd be like, I'd find myself doing and stopping and going, wait, what?

That's not.

And so then it me up.

It turned an hour and a half situation into a two hour situation because I literally had to go back and make sure I didn't up.

And I was like this.

So then I, I googled it.

I was like, is the killings narration dicked?

And they're like, oh yeah, it's inaccurate.

And I was like off.

And I just quit reading.

So I didn't get to the part where they explained why I was like this.

I'm so mad.

So yeah, it just was like you add on black and white for me, which isn't my favorite, but then you add on to narration and then up narration.

And it wasn't even, like I said, it wasn't even like point of view narration.

It was literal.

Oh, voiceover narration.

And then on top of that, like, I was bored.

Really.

Okay, yeah.

Like, I just didn't.

I was like.

And there was so many weird like.

Like for example, when he shoots the horse, I'm like, where is everybody?

Cause even with that little.

What's.

It's.

They're not silencers anymore, right?

Suppressors.

Suppressors.

There you go.

I'm like, even with the little suppressor on the end of that rifle, every buddy heard that, right?

And like now we're good.

I'm like off.

Like.

So there was just little things that bothered the piss out of me that don't normally bother me.

But because I was already annoyed by the time this movie picks up and gets going that I was just like, I'm bored.

And so I just had no interest.

And then like the weird dialogue sometimes and I don't know why it was weird to me, but it was like.

And maybe it was the combinations.

And I'm just.

This is me thinking this through now because I don't understand fully to this day, like moment why.

Why I was like annoyed by some of the dialogue.

But I think it may have been that there was so much narration and random ass narration to boot.

Like you just be like, there's the voice of God again telling me what the going on sometimes incorrectly.

Why do I even need the dialogue?

Why not just have the whole movie be played out with silence?

See them talking, right.

But not hear them.

And it's just narrated like I think it would have been more interesting, to be honest, as much as I hate saying that out loud, because we all know how much I hate narration and voiceover when it's unnecessary.

Let your movie speak for itself.

But I think it would have been more interesting if it would have been told almost like somebody was telling you the story and then we get a silent movie behind it.

You talk about artistic interesting.

Yeah, that could have been wild.

Right?

Like, I'm in.

So I was distracted and I was like, well, what's cr?

And then I got pissed because it was incredible.

I was like, well, what's correct?

Like the narration or the dialogue or the.

Yeah.

What?

I. I don't.

I don't know.

So I just.

The whole thing just, like, was very off putting to me, which is normally I'm like, okay, that's an artistic choice.

Whatever.

I don't like it.

But it is what it.

I.

It just.

It bothered me, like, straight up.

The whole movie just kind of annoyed me and I was bored.

And I was like, this Alec is gonna get a kick in the teeth the next time I see him.

That's funny.

So I get what you're saying about, like, all the little idiosyncrasies, because I was thinking a lot of the similar stuff where they're talking about this heist they're pulling off, right.

And, oh, you're gonna park in this corner of the parking lot.

But there's no mention of the fact that it's not going to be an abandoned parking lot.

That would have been my first scene.

Like, as soon as I saw the parking attendant, I was like, okay, well, he's not making it out.

Yeah, right.

Like.

And so, I mean, at that point, it's almost like just get out of the car and go down a little bit and find a nice little secluded spot.

Like.

Right.

It's hard.

Or the other funny thing, and this is more of just recently, but I really like Elisha Cook, who plays George, but his way of speaking is very similar to when Mark Hamill does his Harrison Ford impression.

That's funny.

So watching this again after all these Mark Hamill shorts reels that get put up on there, I was just dying at some parts that shouldn't be laughing at.

Yeah, because that's fair.

I'm glad I didn't actually hear that while I was.

Because I would have been.

Because it takes.

You know, there's that added a little bit of suspense about.

Especially when they're kind of waiting after the job is done and Elisha Cook does A good job of being this like, nervous, twitchy individual.

Yeah.

And so there's this added suspense, but I couldn't feel the suspense there because it was almost like having yakety sacks is the background noise in my brain.

And so there was, there was little choices throughout it where I was sitting there and I was like, jj's gonna hate.

Oh, boy.

It didn't bring down my feeling about the movie too much because I've seen it multiple times.

Sure, I enjoy it as far as I enjoy Kubrick films, but I would say probably because they feel like Stanley Cooper did this.

That's also.

Yeah, again, very true.

When you watch it, it's hard to be like, oh, yeah, no, this is Stanley Kubrick.

Whereas several others that we've done this month and several others that were on the list that didn't get picked.

Boy, you know, it's Stanley Kubrick.

You just don't know what to do.

Stanley, you're gonna get.

Yeah, for sure.

So interesting.

Yeah.

I don't even.

Go ahead, let you go, because I was just gonna say it's, it's, it's just a weird feeling for this movie.

Yeah.

And I, I think that's.

Yeah.

That's one thing about this movie in general that like, it just is weird in general.

It just feels.

And I don't know, maybe it's, it's like you said, maybe there was a lot of, of studio influence because he was a new director at the time or newish.

Very.

I mean, very new.

So it could be that that was the part of the reason, but it just, it just felt, I don't know, like you said, it was very simple, very short, very, you know, cookie cutter in a box.

Exactly what you'd expect from a Hollywood movie.

And for the most part back then.

But it also felt.

Not like it, it had some cubicisms and it, like some of the dialogue.

And I, I think that's where I lean the most is some of the dialogue is very heavy handed, which is a very Kubrick thing.

And it's like, I don't know, it just felt weird.

Like I don't even know.

Like I was.

I've been racking my brain on even what to talk about with this film because it's so simplistic in, in its story and in its like structuring and like it's, it's almost like what do I even.

Is there anything even interesting for me to really talk about with this movie?

Because there's not anything that stands out that's different besides the Clunkiness of it when it comes to what we've already.

Or at least what I've already bitched about with it.

You know, the narration and the.

The weird story.

Like the.

The.

Yeah, like, the weird choices.

Like some mastermind heist.

And it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen in some cases.

And then, like, so many people don't make it out of this whole thing too.

Like, you're just like.

I mean, obviously thus the name.

Right.

Like, you're just like, okay, yeah.

I don't know.

Like, it just doesn't.

I don't even know what to do with this film, which is rare for me.

And that's one of my issues with it, is I'm like, I don't.

I don't know how to feel about it.

100.

Other than I don't love it.

Well, here's.

Here's what I would say.

My almost biggest gripe is because I like Sterling hating as an actor.

I like Elisha Cook.

Yeah, right.

My favorite performance in this was.

I think it's Marie Windsor.

Yeah.

George's wife.

Yeah.

She is the best part of this movie.

It's true.

And that's kind of the.

I think a little bit of the problem is she's not in a lot of it.

Yeah.

But when she's in it, she.

She makes me mad.

Like, I hate her character.

Sure.

But it's so well played.

It's the best performance in the movie for me.

And so it's.

It's a weird thing because, like, I don't want any more Johnny.

Like, I don't want.

I don't want to see Maurice anymore.

Like, I don't want to see any of these characters.

I want to see more of Sherry and her whole thing that she's got going on being the worst wife imaginable and at the same time, a very bad girlfriend.

Yeah,.

It's.

It's such a.

Such an interesting part of it that is, again, you know, true to.

Kind of like Kubrick's form is, you know, make something really interesting, but I don't really care about that.

That's not what I'm exactly going to focus on.

So I'm gonna put in the corner and I'm gonna go over here.

Yeah.

And it's like, no, I want to see more of her.

I want to see more of her performance because it's the most interesting part in this for me.

The most enjoyable to watch part because she's the one who adds most the drama, most attention is all kind of hinged on her and her actions that she's got going on.

Because, you know, George is the one who leaks to her.

She's one who leaks it to everybody.

Her.

Her boyfriend.

And that's what essentially kicks off the killing.

Yeah.

So she's the kind of rosebud at the center of the story.

Yeah.

And I want more of her and her character and I just.

Not there.

Because that's what's happening.

So it's like that's, that's the biggest kind of gripe I have with.

Is that I want to see more of her performance because it's the best one in the movie.

It's true.

It's true.

And like you said, everything kind of.

Whether you like it or not, everything kind of hinges on her as far as how it all plays out and what a George is.

Yeah.

I mean, that was the first thing I thought of.

Like, he starts telling me, what are you doing?

Yeah, you dumb.

What are you doing?

And then you see.

Yeah.

Like you said, she goes off and tell.

I'm like, oh my God.

Hell, like, what a mess.

And all you had to do is keep your pie hole shut.

What is it about two days?

Yeah, yeah.

What is it about criminals.

You just can't keep your mouth shut.

Like, it's so stupid.

But yeah, like it's.

You're right.

Like there is no.

And that's the other thing too.

And I'm like, could fool me.

Yeah.

But I, But I.

Hey, I say this too about all, all sorts of movies.

Like, source material is important.

You can have the best actors in the world.

But if source material sucks balls.

Good.

It's gonna blow.

And, and, and they may improve it, but that doesn't mean it's good.

Right.

And this is a. I, I fully.

I mean, with the exception of.

You're right.

The Harrison Ford impression, like, there's so many things that you're like, this could have been.

I can see them trying, poor bastards.

They're really trying in this movie.

But there's just not much to work with.

And what there is to work with is overshadowed by so many other things that you're just like, what?

And that's.

I think.

And again, I, I wanted to chalk it up to me half paying attention.

Right.

But I was.

I left this movie confused too.

Like I was like, listen, I.

And here's the weirdest part about being confused about this film.

It's not like it's complicated.

No, you know what happened.

But I still left going, the just happened.

And I, and I. I can only chalk it up to the contradictions in the story.

Right.

And then on top of that, like the lack of interest that I had in what was so like I would get to points that I'm like, I know I just sat here and watched this.

Not even like I was doing anything else.

That was hard.

Like I was just doing some inventory.

So it was just typing in and clicking on some stuff.

So I mean I was paying enough attention that the simplistic nature of this film, I should not have been like, what the is going on?

But it just didn't feel, it was almost like there was a whole cohesive story here that didn't feel at all like a whole cohesive story.

And again, I don't know if maybe it's because of the chunking of the way that it's told, maybe that's partly why because there is some weird blocking to it.

Like how.

And I think maybe it was to try to like give some intrigue to it.

Maybe, I don't know, maybe that was Cubic's way of going, listen, we have a very cookie cuty cutter story.

Let's throw in some weird ass to it and, and, or some like hop skip and a jump timeline story type thing.

Try to improve the wheel.

Yeah, exactly.

And so it, and it, and what it did was is made it feel awkward.

I think that's, that's the word that keeps coming to mind is it was kind of awkward.

Right.

And so.

Yeah, I don't know.

But I, I don't know how I was like, how am I confused by this movie?

It's not complicated.

It just doesn't feel like it makes sense either.

So I don't know.

That's.

That was my, my biggest gripe is that I walked away going, I gained nothing from watching this movie.

And I am confused.

Over an hour and a half movie that is literally just about a heist of a goddamn racetrack.

Like, and everybody dies.

Like, it's just not confusing.

But I.

It was.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I, I chalked this up to, to a me problem.

I think it's a. I struggled.

I want to say that so much because it's again, right.

This movie is 60, 70 years.

70 Years old this year.

Yeah, it's been out for 70 years.

And so there's especially when you go back and you watch older movies, there's so much that's happening in the background that you miss or you.

Or that we miss and can't see just because were used to newer modern movies that kind of almost feed you everything that you need to know.

Yeah.

And then they do the background stuff as almost extra credit.

Right.

So you can notice extra things.

And so.

But I get what you're saying because there's times like during.

Maurice's story is the one that really got me.

Yeah.

You see Maurice, he comes in, he starts the fight.

But before he starts the fight, he looks over and Johnny standing by the door.

The no admittance store.

We don't know how Johnny's gotten there yet.

We don't see his point of the story.

You don't even really know it's Johnny until the door opens and he slips inside.

And then you're almost like, wait a minute, where did he come from?

Because that stuck out to me is like, oh, wait a minute.

Because Johnny's story comes like three stories later to where now we see him as he gets the racetrack and he bumps into.

Who was it the guy who's like, footing the bill for everything.

Yeah.

Like, oh, right.

And then he stands by the door.

Now you're like, oh, okay.

That's how he got there.

But the way that it's kind of told is outside of the way that it happens.

Yeah.

And so you have to kind of pay attention to what's going on in that sense of the background.

And that's just because 70 years ago you had to go to a theater to watch the movie and you're paying more close attention to it because you also have, like a phone in your pocket or anything.

So it's a different viewing experience.

And I think this is why a lot of people don't like the older movies is because they're not taken into account.

Shared kind of distraction time.

And so it feels like, wait a minute.

Yeah.

Like it's built for an audience that has so far and, you know, gone away.

Yeah.

They no longer exist.

And so it's a.

It's a slog and you have to, like, almost pay attention.

But I don't think it's a you problem.

I think it's more of a generation fair.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

Because this movie was 30 years old when you were born.

And so it's.

It's one of those things where it's.

It's like.

It's not necessarily generational or not necessarily a you problem.

It's the Fact that this was built for an audience that no longer exists.

Fair.

Yeah, it was 30.

It was 30 years old when I was born, and then it was another 45 years before I watched it, so.

Dude, it's just.

Yeah, it was weird.

Weird experience, to say the least.

Should we rate it?

Let's do it.

My movie.

I'll go first.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna give it a three.

Okay.

And so it's.

It's slightly better than Middle of the Road movie to me.

It's enjoyable from the fact that I can have a good laugh in it, even though it's not really supposed to be an enjoyable movie.

Sure.

And.

But I'll sit back and I'll sit down.

I'll watch this.

I don't really have an issue introducing this movie to someone being like, hey, especially if they don't know of anything about Kubrick.

Right.

Get him in with that little bait and switch.

There you go.

Oh, yeah, He's Norma.

Okay, cool.

Now we're gonna watch Clockwork Orange and you.

Very similar to Maltese Falcon, which is a great movie to me, and some of those other kind of awkward heist crime drama films from that time period.

So it almost feels like a romanticized Cooper came to the.

Came to the Hollywood scene 20 years too late, and this is his homage to it or whatever you want to call it.

And so it's a very kind of romantic aspect to it from that standpoint.

But it's.

It's not something that I'm like, you know what I want to watch?

I'm gonna watch the Killing.

Right?

That doesn't come up.

It's.

I'm gonna give it a 3.

I will watch it again.

But it's the only time I really watch this is when I'm introducing someone to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

As a way to ease them in.

But, yeah, so I'll give it a three.

Nice.

Dude.

I.

This.

I'm gonna give it a one and a half.

I. I did not enjoy this movie for multiple reasons, the least of which is the fact that it's black and white.

Like, I don't have the same, like, fundamental, like, loathing of black and white that, like, Matson had.

Right.

Like, we always had to take that into account when he was part of the podcast.

But I don't have that.

Like, it's not my first choice to be in black and white.

For many of the reasons that I've talked about in the past, however, I. I just felt confused, lost, bored, and I want to say, like, intrigued.

But the intriguing part was probably part of the fact that, like, it's a Cubic film.

And then like you said, it's so much different than what anyone could possibly be used to with Kubrick that you have to go, okay, what am I watching?

Right?

And so, yeah, that's all I got for it, though.

Like, I just didn't enjoy, like, it's a.

It's a story that.

And again, this isn't Kubrick's problem or the film's problem.

It's just.

It's a story that's been told a million times with some little differences, right?

And then like this overhanging narration that just was so out of place and weird.

The performances felt phoned in and with the exception obviously, of, of the.

The wife slash girlfriend at the same time.

But there's nothing that makes this movie stand out to me other than it's a Kubrick film.

Like, that's literally like, in my opinion, if someone says, oh yeah, I love the, the Killing, I'm gonna go, well, what are some of your other favorite movies?

And I'm gonna be like, okay, so you're a Kubrick fan, not of the Killing fan, because most likely if this was made by anybody else, you'd all over it.

But because it's cubic, it's great.

Like that to me, is what this film for most people, right?

So I will never watch this movie again if I can help it.

And because there's just better versions of it out there.

And I don't have the same.

Like, I respect Cubric for what cubic was and who he, what he did and who he was.

But I don't go, yeah, Kubrick, he's the man.

I just go, he's Kubrick.

He's a weird.

That made some movies that were interesting because they're weird and different.

So, yeah, one and a half for me, that's.

And I feel like I'm being generous.

Yeah, I'm being generous because it's Kubrick and it's different from most Kubrick.

And there were some, some levels of entertainment in there because it's a black and white where they sniped the horse and they like put on a weird ass mask and just like murked everybody.

You know what I mean?

Like, it just was like.

And it's a film in the 50s where everybody dies like you see, you know what I mean?

So it's different.

So anyway, there it is.

I'll tell everybody where they can fight us when we're not avoiding being on the ass end of a bad heist.

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And with that I'll kick it back to the Colossus of Clout, the King of Crash A jj.

Yes sir.

Thanks Alex.

Yeah, go check out all the things.

We have a lot of stuff out there.

It's a lot of fun.

We've been doing it for six years so it's accumulated and more to come.

But yeah, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.

We'll catch you on the next cinematic.