In this episode of Conversations That Grow, we chat with Drew Donaldson, strategist and founder of GroHaus.

Drew shares why building relationships trumps talking business, revealing his unconventional sales approach that lets clients speak uninterrupted for the first 15 minutes. He takes us through buying out his business partners while his wife was six months pregnant, and how he immediately turned the company profitable by cutting unnecessary expenses.

Drew offers fresh perspectives on contentment versus complacency, meaningful happiness versus status symbols, and why truly understanding your customers drives business success.

Links Mentioned:

• GroHaus.org

the system that I use.

Has like a hundred percent success rate with people.

Like, people take it and they go through it and they're

like, I've never, no one's ever taught me how to sell like that.

I'm like, yeah, because it, it goes counter to

what most sales books will teach you about selling.

And so if you just do this and you jump on the call,

people will just give you their money because they

feel like they can trust you.

Welcome to Conversations That Grow,

where we explore how meaningful conversations

shape business, leadership, and the way we see the world.

I'm Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm joined by Drew Donaldson.

He's a strategist and AI early adopter, and

the founder of GroHause.

In this episode, we talk about Pivotal conversations, big

business paths, and the shifts that are shaping the future.

Drew, welcome to the show.

It's a pleasure being here, Sadaf.

Thank you, Drew.

Um, I've, I've been really looking forward to this

conversation because I know we didn't, we didn't get a

chance to dig into everything in our pre-call, so I'm really

looking forward to this.

Me too.

I, we had a very long pre-call and it was very enjoyable and

we went, we really could have recorded that whole thing

and made a podcast out of it.

Yeah, we probably should have.

Um, so Drew, let's start, was there ever a conversation where

someone challenged your thinking in a way that really shook you

or one where you walked away seeing things differently?

Yeah.

There, I mean, there's been a bunch of those kind

of moments in my life.

I mean, the one I, I.

Probably talk about the most is was back in my early years,

I was in New York working at a studio, um, that did

language dubbing for cartoons.

And it was run by this guy, and I'll name drop

him because I, I'm sure he'd get a kick outta it.

Kip Kaplan.

And he was far and away one of the most influential

bosses I ever had because he, he was kind of this

like New York City madman.

He just, he every rule in, in like what I thought a

studio owner would look like.

He broke, uh, and he was, he was just this

incredibly dynamic person.

He had, he had won an award for producing, I think he

won a Grammy or something for producing this, uh, Camino,

or yeah, it was something like a Grammy or a, uh,

like a, a platinum record or something for his work

with the R&B band Camino.

And like we first bonded over that.

'cause I used to work in an r and b Soul station and I just.

I, the whole time I worked with him, it felt like the ground was

constantly moving under my feet.

Like he was just such a powerhouse of a human being.

And so I tried to absorb as much as my 22-year-old brain

could take in at the time.

Um, but every day I was learning something new.

And, but I think the most impactful lesson he ever taught

me was, um, we were going out, uh, he, he, it was the

end of the day, I was getting ready to go and he's like,

uh, don't put your stuff away.

You're coming to dinner with me.

And I was like, like, I was like, oh, cool.

He's like, don't worry, we're not, we're not going far.

We're going right across the street.

There's this burger joint.

And it was like a, a, not a traditional burger joint.

It's like a five star Michelin, like burger joint.

It's called a, I don't know if it's still there.

It's called Rare.

Mm-hmm.

And um, so I was like, oh, that's awesome.

Like I would never eat there as a broke 22-year-old.

Yeah.

Like fantastic.

And he is like, we're meeting with an executive.

And I forget if it was like, it was like TLC or HGTV

or something like that.

And this is a, an executive that, uh, Kip

was bidding on a deal with.

And um, so we're walking over and as we're crossing the

street, he says, now I want you to, I, I'm gonna say this once

and I want you to take it in.

We are not going to talk about business tonight.

I was like, well, we're, we're going to meet with him.

Aren't we bidding the show?

Like, isn't that the purpose of having the dinner,

like talking business?

Like I thought that, that's what I thought the whole purpose was.

He is like, I'm gonna say it again.

We're not talking business.

I was like, alright.

So I sit down and Kip is the life, like Kip is one of

the best people that builds relationship and rapport.

He can build relation, a rapport with someone in five seconds.

So he, he comes in and we sit at the table and he is

just cracking up the, the, this executive the whole

night long, like all night.

He's just has this guy rolling and they're talk and they're

talking about motorcycle.

They're talking about everything except.

Like the business we're trying to do together.

And at one point the guy even says, well, you know, I guess

we really should talk about, um, you know, this deal or whatever.

And kept, puts his hands up.

Like he's, he goes, we're not talking about business.

And like, shuts the guy.

This is a guy who's like, ready to cut even check.

And he is like, we're not talking about that.

And the guy's like, all right, fair, fair enough.

We don't have to talk about business.

So we go through this whole dinner, we have dessert and

drinks after it's a whole thing.

And then we get up and Kip and I go back across the street,

you know, say bye to the guy.

Uh, he jumps into a, a cab or whatever, we cross the street.

And I go, why?

Like, why didn't, like he wanted to talk about the deal.

Why didn't you wanna talk about the deal?

He's like, 'cause that dinner was not about the deal.

He's like, we're gonna get the deal.

That's, that's a foregone conclusion that was about

building a relationship because now he's not gonna

think about any of the other deals on his table.

He's just gonna be focused on how, what a great

time he had with us and.

I just thought that was insane.

I was like, well, no, obviously, like he wanted

to talk about the deal.

You shut him down.

He is gonna walk away with that being like, Ugh, God.

Like this guy wouldn't even let me talk about the thing

we were meeting about.

And sure enough, like a day or two later, the deal came in and

signed, sealed and delivered.

That's incredible.

And just blew my mind that so much of business was so

much more in the relationship than the actual numbers.

Hmm.

Like at the end of the day, when you're operating

at that high of a level, the numbers are irrelevant

'cause it's not his money.

You're not picking his pocket.

You know, he's looking for who is he gonna have the

most fun with working with?

And Kip is really fun to work with.

So naturally he picked Kip.

That's incredible.

I, the, the way you describe him, it sounds like people

are naturally drawn to him.

Yeah, he is.

Like, and, and it, what's so amazing about him is that

he, um, I had, I had built his website while I was there

'cause he needed a new website and year, like a year ago,

he text messaged me outta the blue and he said, Hey,

I'm having this issue with my website, can you help me fix it?

And I got on a call with him and it's like, no time had passed.

It's like I had just walked outta his studio yesterday and

it's like, that's how strong of a personal connection he builds

with someone is, you can not hear from Kip for 10 years and

then Kip he'll pop back on your radar and it's just like you're

hanging out with an old friend.

He's just, he's a absolute magnetic personality.

Um, that's amazing.

And he's, he's, and I think the, the chaos element in him

I is what draws people in.

Yeah.

Because they never know what he's gonna do next.

They never know, like.

What's on, like, what's KIPP's next move?

And so I think that's why people are so drawn to him is

because in a world where like usually uncertainty is a bad

thing, he has an uncertainty in a really good way.

Yeah.

Like it keeps you on your feet, it keeps you

surprising you with stuff.

Yeah.

There's never a dull moment it sounds like.

Never.

Never.

Yeah.

I, I can't remember.

One boring day at work with kids.

That's great.

It's great to have bosses like that.

Drew.

Um, I'm, I'm curious, when you were sitting there with

them in the restaurant, did you ever feel outta place?

Oh, a hundred percent.

Yeah.

What was that like?

Oh, I mean, you gotta, like, like I,

I'm, I'm 22 years old.

Mm-hmm.

I am wearing a very ill-fitting suit, like, not

a full suit, but like a, a dress shirt and a blazer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This executive walks in wearing like, full Armani, like, he,

like the guy, looks like he just walked off a Hollywood

set about like investment banking or something.

Like he's just so out of place.

And yet Kip was, was dressed like me.

You know, slacks in a shirt.

He had like all this confidence in the world to like, just

like engage with this guy.

And I did not have the, the credit, like I was just,

this is like my first or second gig outta school.

So I didn't have any of that confidence.

And so it was definitely this weird dynamic of like, I'm here,

I'm here to absorb, not really add to the conversation much.

And so like I found little openings where I could

talk, like I, I didn't like do the awkward, like

sit on the sidelines and not interact at all thing.

But it was definitely this like yeah, I am, I

am sitting with two really heavy hitters and I am, yeah.

Dreadfully.

Outmatched.

Yeah.

Um.

I, I had another scenario like that.

I used to, so back before webinars were mainstream,

I worked for a company that used to do webinars, but

what they, they had this very complex process to do analyst

days, which an analyst day is usually put on by a hedge fund

or a private equity company.

And they bring in all of their investments, uh, to

talk about like the different companies they're invested in.

So usually it'll be like a trend.

It'll be like, you know, the Pacific Crest

Healthcare Conference or something like that.

And all the analysts from all the big banks and investment

funds will come in to listen to, you know, how great

these companies are doing so that these hedge funds

can get more in investors into their hedge fund.

And so I would, uh, one of the, the nice parts about the job was

that you got to eat the lunch that was catered and like, you

gotta remember these there.

This is pure whining and dining.

So this is not McDonald's takeout, this is like

lobster and steak.

Every day.

So like for a period of about a year when I was doing

these, I was eating like lobster or a steak rather.

Yeah.

Every single day.

It was great.

And like the best, like the best prime cuts New

York had to offer in these incredibly lavish hotels.

Wow.

With like open bar and all, all of that kind of stuff.

Like it was, it was unreal.

And, uh, so there was one day I sat down, um, you know,

usually, uh, we would get the food and we would eat in the

conference room like every after everyone had left.

But in this one hotel, it was this very.

Luxurious hotel.

They didn't allow that.

They're like, no, you have to eat in the dining room.

And I was working the conference by myself, so I didn't have

any other colleagues there.

And so I went to the dining room and I was like, well,

where should I sit to, like the, the busboy or whatnot?

And he is like, just pick any table.

Like, you know, you're in a suit, you're

not gonna stand out.

So I sat down and like the table was like the CEO of

Northrop Grumman, an admiral in the Navy, like, you know, the

head of business development for this other company.

It was like all these people whose net worth combined

could probably like be my entire family's six

generations back net worth.

Like these are like ti literal titans of industry.

And I'm just sitting there eating my steak and

listening to them talk.

And at one point, the guy next to me, not the, the

like Northrop Grumman guy, but the guy next to me who

is an analyst was like, what firm are you with?

And I was like.

Oh, I, I am, uh, I, I forget what I, the company's name

that I worked for, but I was like, I'm with this company.

And they're like, oh, what do they do?

And I'm like, oh, well we broadcast these analyst days.

And he was like, oh, that's really cool.

And then he started like, talking with me and like, we had

like this whole conversation.

I'm just feel like I should not be talking.

Like, I should just get up and leave.

Like as soon they're gonna find out that I have,

like, I know nothing.

I have nothing like they're gonna like throw

me out by my boots.

But like, he was like really, really nice the

whole time and like, kept the conversation going.

And afterwards he is like, really nice meeting you, you

know, do you have a card?

And I was like, no, I, I don't have a card.

He is like, well, here, take mine.

You know, call me sometime.

And like the, the guy was like one of the big uppity

ups at General Dynamics,

like wow

boy, like biggest military

contractor on the planet.

Way above my pay grade to be talking to this guy.

But he was just so nice and like actually

interested in what I do.

And at any point in time when he realized that I was just a peon,

he could have just been like, yeah, this is not worth my time.

But he wasn't, and I just always, I always took that

kind of lesson of like, no matter how high you, you

raise in the ranks, you should never treat your status

as like a, a requirement to talk to another person.

Yeah.

Because it's, it's just like, you never know what

you might learn from someone that's below you on the

food chain or, uh, you, you never know that what kind of

connection you could build with someone that you might be

able to give them a hand up.

So that was another kind of moment where I was

grossly outmatched by the people at my table.

But, you know, it was, it was definitely a

learning experience.

Yeah.

I mean, I can, I can see the, I can see the similarities

even to the point where you talked about relationships, how

they're so much more important than the business itself.

Kipp.

Um, demonstrated that for you and now this guy at, you know,

at, at this table as well, and you are saying the same thing

about, actually, I don't ever wanna get, get to the point

where I think that my status is, is a requirement for who

or who I can or can't talk to.

Um, so yeah, I love, I love what you're saying.

So tell me more about that, about relationship

versus business.

So, I mean, my, my whole, like, a lot of

that stuff, that groundwork that was laid early on in my

career really influenced my approach to sales and business

development in general.

Uh, because what I realized very early on is like, I

hated when I, you know, when you first started business,

you get on everybody's list, everybody calls you, and just

out of interest to see what, how people were selling stuff.

Because I was just getting started.

I would take a lot of these calls and I just became like.

Really turned off by how most salespeople would conduct their

calls because all it was, it just felt like they were reading

off of a script and they were telling me the same thing.

They would tell, you know, they were, it was like a

mad lib, like they were just dropping my name in where they

would have the next clients.

Like, this is what we can do for GroHause.

This is what we can do for Acme Co. This is what we

can do for whatever company.

And so it just really like, kind of turned me off and I was like,

man, I never want to do that.

Like I, I don't wanna be on a script, I don't wanna

follow this cadence that's so predictable and feels so

disingenuous and like that I'm just talking to lead number 450

and after I get off this call, I'm gonna talk to Lead 451.

And so when I, when I, you know, went through that experience and

then I started doing sales calls myself, I was like, alright,

I gotta just, like, I, I just have to do the anti of that.

What is the opposite of that?

Well, what is the, the opposite of that is me not talking and

letting the other person talk.

And what I ended up doing is really stumbling, stumbling

into a sales pattern that I didn't even understand it until

I had hired a sales consultant.

'cause for a long time I thought I was just really

bad at sales because I wasn't following all these rules.

And so I hired the sales consultant and I was like,

listen, here's my requirements.

I don't want to come off like a salesperson.

I do, I am genuinely interested in what they have to say

and what the problems are and how I can help them.

And I don't want to use any of these, like NFPQ or whatever

that is, sales tricks that like, just make me feel gross.

Like even teaching people that make me feel gross.

I don't ever want to use them, uh, on, on somebody.

And he is like, all right, well like break down your process.

And I was like, well, I just, I usually start

the call by saying, tell me about your business.

And then they just tell me everything about their business.

Hmm.

And he's like, well, don't you have, like,

don't you set an agenda?

And I was like, no, because that's too salesy.

He's like, well, don't you like have like a list of questions?

And I was like, no, not really, because like they

just tell me everything.

When you ask like, tell me about your business,

you tell me everything.

And like, so what we ended up figuring out is like I was

spending the first 15 minutes just listening to someone,

uh, talk about their business.

And that's what was increasing my close rate on these calls.

Because I thought the reason, the reason I thought I was

bad at sales was because I didn't enjoy the sales process.

Because I thought I was always underperforming.

'cause I wasn't doing all these things.

I was actually doing tremendously well.

I just like when I shared my close percentage, he's

like, I've worked with like some of the biggest

companies on the planet.

No one closes at that rate.

So he is like, either your pricing, your services

too low or you are like unbelievably good at this.

And I was like, well, it must be that I'm pricing

the services too low.

But then I went and looked the price, the pricing was, it was

a little low, but it wasn't like tremendously low where

it would like automatically like, oh yeah, you're gonna

close everybody under the sun.

And so once we dissected what my process actually was, he's

like, you're actually doing a really good sales process.

You just aren't following it consistently.

Sometimes you're doing this part which really works.

Other times you're leaving that part out, like

why are you doing that?

It's like, well, you know, we run outta time 'cause

the person talks too long.

And so like that really helped craft a sales process that

still feels authentic to me.

It still feels like I'm actually able to create rapport with

a person and like understand their business and not come

off as salesy, but at the same time have a repeatable

format that I can take into these calls that doesn't

feel like a repeatable format for the person on the call.

Yeah.

And so that has that.

Early start in like how to build relationships and rapport

with people was incredibly impactful when I went in and

started like actually applying this in a formulaic way.

Yeah.

So that's, I think that's my, my, one of my biggest, um, like

the, the course, you know, I built a couple courses over

the years, but the one I'm most proud of is actually designed

around the system that I use.

Okay.

And it has like a hundred percent success

rate with people.

Like, people take it and they go through it and they're

like, I've never, no one's ever taught me how to sell like that.

I'm like, yeah, because it, it goes counter to

what most sales books will teach you about selling.

And so if you just do this and you jump on the call,

people will just give you their money because they

feel like they can trust you.

Because for the first 15 minutes all you're doing

is letting 'em vent.

Yeah.

And like talk about how much help they need.

And then you're just like, well, I can help.

Here's how I can help.

Yeah.

Would you like to help?

Would you like my help?

And then it's deal done.

So it, it.

Really, I, I wouldn't have been able to come up with

that system if I hadn't had the influences early on to

teach me how to actually build that rapport and build

a relationship really quickly.

I love that.

I love that.

I love how you can be able to track it back to those very

early days in, um, in business and working and, um, and then

that you're at a point where you're actually putting it

into practice and passing it on as lessons for other people.

It's, it's a really weird time travel to

go back and try to pinpoint like, where did you get like

this inspiration or this inspiration or like, when

did this piece, you know, kind of come into play?

Yeah.

But I think it's all important.

It it, like you're, where you are today is just a

summation of where you've been.

Yeah.

So, and I mean that, that can sound kind of flippant,

but that's the reality.

But it's the reality.

Yeah.

Every bad habit you have today started somewhere.

Every good habit you have today started somewhere.

But I think understanding that and kind of being able to go

back and say like, okay, why do I, uh, why do I value this over?

That is really a, a big part of kind of dissecting

yourself as an entrepreneur and figuring out like, well,

what does really make me tick?

Yeah.

Why am I showing up?

Hmm.

Yeah.

I love that.

And yeah, it is, it's a huge part, isn't it?

Because it's that journey of self-awareness.

Yeah.

And the quicker you come to that point of understanding

what, as you said, makes you tick and what it is that you

enjoy, then the sooner you can start applying that and, um,

thriving as a result of it.

Well, I, and on the inverse, I think

understanding why you don't enjoy certain things or

like, um, why certain things don't bring you happiness.

So like, I'm not a very material guy.

Like I live in a relatively modest house.

I drive a modest car.

Like I'm not, I don't own any fancy watches.

I don't own any fancy clothes.

Like my most expensive pair of pants is $50.

Like, you know, like I, those things don't really

bring me any happiness.

And so, and when I think about like, why is that?

Why don't those things, it's like, well, because

I have other things in life that do, and those

things are things you can't really buy with more money.

And so like.

You know, I drove a lot of coaches crazy early in

my career because I was not nearly as money hungry

as they wanted me to be.

And it's just the money brings comfort.

It, it doesn't bring happiness, right?

Yeah.

Like, you know, so many business owners I work with

are so surprised that as their business grows, it gets harder.

They're like, I thought it would get easier.

It's like, no, it gets harder.

It's like more money, more problems is true.

It's true.

You

know?

Yeah.

And like,

and there's no shame in running a

true small business.

Like if you're comfortable and happy and have all

the things you need, you don't need to grow.

Like you should, you should consistently grow to Maine

to keep the lights on.

Like, don't like rest on your laurels, but you don't need

to, you know, if you're happy running a one man operation

and you're making enough money to, to live and pay for the

things you need, like you don't need to go and go make enough

to buy a Lamborghini, is that actually gonna make you happy?

I, I doubt it.

I think it's very much about contentment.

Yeah.

You don't need a whole lot to do, to have that actually.

Yeah.

And it's, I I think there's, there's a lot of talk in

today's like, entrepreneurial environment about like goal

setting, but I think the thing people get wrong is

they set the wrong goals.

Like, because the, the, the whole purpose of a goal is

to have something to strive for that you're passionate

about, that you, you, you know, can, you physically can

like, yes, once I make this, then this is going to happen.

Right.

It's, it's like an, it's a, uh, an equation.

And what I think most people do is they set these goals

that don't have any like meaningful stake in them.

And then when they reach them, they're disappointed

because they didn't.

Actually get the joy of reaching the goal they

thought they would.

And like, a lot of times people chalk that up

to just entrepreneurs never being satisfied

and constantly working.

But I think a lot of it just comes down to like, well, what

was your goal to begin with?

Like, where did that goal come from?

Like, oh yeah, I wanna make enough money to buy

a, you know, a Rolex's.

Like, okay, cool.

Why, why is that Rolex important?

Well, because, you know, uh, all the guys on YouTube that

are successful wear Rolexes.

Okay, cool.

Is that like actually gonna make you happy being like

all the other YouTubers on Rolex or on uh, all the other

YouTubers that have a Rolex?

Well, probably not.

I mean, it'll, it'll be like nice and you might have, feel,

have a feeling of success when you first buy it, but like, long

term is every time you look at that, is that gonna make you

happy or is it just a watch?

Because I've seen a lot of Rolexes.

I can tell you they're all just a watch.

It's just a watch.

It's like, I think

it's more of a status symbol than

anything really, isn't it?

Yeah.

And I mean, I mean, I just, I don't think status really brings

happiness at a core level.

'cause like if it did, why are there so many like Tibetan

monks that have nothing, own nothing and are the

happiest people in the world?

Like, you know, there's a, um, I forget the name of the

country, but there's this like very small country and everybody

lives well below, like the poverty line, what we would

consider the poverty line.

Like they're, they tend to be like farmers and merchants

in that kind of stuff.

And it's like the happiest country in the world.

It's like, well if materialism and status is what brings

true happiness, then they should be the most like

miserable people in the world.

And yet in every country you will find poor people

that are very happy.

Yeah.

So clearly it's not material possessions or status that

is bringing that, but I think people often mistake that

because they feel like they need this, this big ambitious

goal to push them forward.

And then when they finally get the gold watch, they're

just like, that's, that was not the, the big win.

You know, like a, a new Lamborghini is

only new for the day.

You the day you buy it.

Yeah.

And then it's just your Lamborghini, like it's, yeah.

You know, you're just putting miles on the odometer.

That's it.

So like, you know, I, I, I think that if, if people

start looking back at their history and start thinking

about like, well, why are these things important to me?

They'll start discovering that the things that are actually

important to them were imparted on them long before, or the

reasons that they really want the Rolex are manifesting in

some way of, you know, not being enough earlier on life.

Like maybe you always won second place in every high

school competition, and you just never got that validation

that you were the best.

And so buying that Rolex is your version of the, the,

you know, the gold medal.

Listen, if it's gonna, if it's gonna scratch that itch

for you, go right ahead.

But I, I don't think a piece of goods is going to,

you know, make you happy.

I don't, I think you're, that's a, a lost, a lost cause.

Yeah.

I think part of it, um, is that chasing that

chasing of happiness.

And in my mind, happiness is very much dependent on your

circumstances and what's happening in front of you

at that moment in time.

Whereas that.

Uh, joy or that deep contentment, I think

that's different.

That's something that is perpetual and something

that is ingrained in you.

And it's not, it's not determined by the circumstances

that you find yourself in.

It's just, it's just a part of you.

And I think when people are chasing happiness, they end

up in a place where it's about the status and it's

about the money and it's about having all these things.

Whereas, um, if you chase contentment and that deep

joy, I think you end up in a different place.

And I think, I think there's also a

confusion around cont contentment and complacency.

Okay.

And

people think of them as the same thing.

Yes.

Okay.

Complacency is a form of laziness.

Right.

It's like you're used to things working a certain way.

And so you don't change anything and you rest on your laurels

and you don't try to innovate, you don't try to grow, you don't

try to be the best anymore, and you kind of just sit and

you see this at the tops of a lot of industries, right?

When was like, think, think about Tesla and the rest

of the auto market, right?

Like the auto market was pretty boring before

Tesla came in, right?

They were just producing the same cars they've producing

for the last 20 years with no real improvements,

no real innovations.

Like, oh, now you can connect your iPod.

Wow, fantastic.

Like, you know it, it's nothing particularly special.

Yeah.

And then you have Tesla come in and it has going doors

and it, you know, it's all digital inside and it's

like truly something new.

And now everybody else is, that was resting on their laurels is

like, oh my God, we gotta get, like, we gotta do that, we gotta

build the, you know, a digital dash and all this kind of stuff.

And it's like, could they have done that prior to Tesla?

A hundred percent.

But they were complacent.

They were producing something that sold perfectly fine

and made their stockholders money, and so they didn't

feel any pressure to break outta that complacency.

They just stayed there.

Contentment is just being happy where you are with

what you have, and it's not a laziness thing.

Like you can be content working every day.

Yeah, like there's some people, like my, my grandfather's

a farmer, like he still goes and works every day.

He's like, love it.

Eight, nine years old, like mm-hmm.

He's content, right?

He's content waking up every day.

He doesn't dread getting on a tractor.

He loves being on a tractor.

That's why he keeps doing it.

He could have retired.

He's got, you know, sons that can take over the business.

He likes, he likes planting, uh, seed and

harvesting hay and all that.

It's, it's enjoyable.

So I think the, you know, the, the, this idea that

like, well if I'm not aiming for a lofty goal, you know,

then I'm, I'm being lazy.

It's like, well, I think the reason why people can't set

happiness as a goal is because they don't understand what would

bring them true happiness, or they're ashamed of what would

bring them true happiness.

And so they don't wanna, you know, go into their

mastermind group and say that that's their goal.

Because then they'll also be like, well, we're all aiming

to like, buy our second house.

And you're like saying you just like, you want to spend half

as much time working like, oh God, now you, you don't really

fit in with this group anymore.

'cause we're all growth minded.

Yeah.

And you just want to stay home with your kid.

And it's like, it's, people mix get confused at like rat race

status seeking and like, what is actually gonna make them happy.

And I, I think it's really sad.

It's, I, I, I genuinely, like, when I see people get,

like, you know, listen, if, if you like watches, you're

a watch collector, like, you know, if that brings

you contentment, great.

But I'm talking more about the people who like position

their whole life's work to like, you know, buying a

fancy car or buying a fancy watch or buying a fancy house.

I kind of feel bad for 'em because there's something

else missing in that equation and they're, they

don't know what it is yet.

Yeah.

And they probably will find it, but it'll cost 'em a

fortune to figure it out.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

There's more to life than that.

And I agree.

I think with that, the point you made, the, the distinction

between complacency and contentment is a good, is a good

distinction to make for sure.

Yeah.

You don't have to be like lazy,

like you, you can choose, well, you

should be lazy and grow.

But I think, you know, the, the true

happiness is, is figuring out like, when are you content?

When are you, when do you feel like I have everything I need?

The things that are gonna bring me happiness are not

going to come with a price tag, or at least not the

exorbitant price tech, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, if you like going out to eat the fancy

restaurants, like that's where I would spend my money.

Like I'd rather do that.

Yeah.

Than, uh, than anything else, but,

Hmm.

Yeah.

And even that goes back to relationship over

business, doesn't it rather enjoy a meal with someone.

But, um, Drew, one of the things that we talked about in, in

the pre-call was you buying your business partner out.

So, um, I'd love to know, um, I mean, that must

have been a huge decision.

So was there a conversation in that, um, in that aspect

that, sorry, was there a conversation that made you

realize that you had to do it, you had to follow through?

, Josh Klemnos: so just to give you some context of how this

all happened, um, at the end of 2020, I met these two guys

that were starting an agency.

Um, and when they first reached out, it was like, Hey, um, you'd

reached out to us about some other role a long time ago.

We kind of kept, you weren't right for that role because we

felt you were overqualified, but we kind of kept an eye on you.

It seems like you might be looking for a new opportunity.

Um, would you be interested in coming and running

this agency for us?

And I was like, yeah, that sounds pretty cool.

Like I, I was interviewing for some CMO positions and some VP

of marketing positions at the time, and I was like, well,

yeah, let's see what this goes.

And so when I first talked to, it was two partners

that ran another agency.

And when I first talked to one of the partners, he

said, so this is, I know the position is an agency,

but this is not an agency.

It's a coaching program.

And I was like.

And they were like, you're not gonna deliver anything.

You're not gonna deliver any goods.

We have a, you know, partners that will deliver stuff if they,

you know, if people ask for it, but all you're doing is doing

like the marketing coaching.

And, uh, and so I was like, oh, that's really interesting.

Like, I kind of, I'd kind of gotten burnout working

in like deliverables.

I'd been doing that for most of my career.

And I was like, that's kind of cool.

Like, I'll just get like paid to give people advice.

Like that's kind of the ideal.

So I was like, yeah, that sounds interesting.

Um, and then he is like, all right, cool.

So here's how it's gonna work.

It's gonna be this online course, uh, system, and they're

gonna go through the course and then you'll meet with 'em

like kind of sporadically, like every month or so, and

like answer their questions.

And I said, that's not gonna work.

And he is like, well, I wanna work.

He is like, 'cause I just spent the last year during

C-O-V-I-D-I, I knew I couldn't sell anything.

'cause I just launched my agency at the beginning of

like right before Covid.

And so I couldn't sell anything all through

that first year of Covid.

But I was able to talk to a bunch of different

business owners because everybody was lonely.

Like no one had anybody to talk to, no one had

any business to do.

So me reaching out and saying, Hey listen, I

got nothing to sell you.

I just wanna kind of pick your brain on like marketing during

Covid and like, what's going on?

Everybody was like, yeah, absolutely.

So I had packed my calendar full of calls just talking to

different business owners about like, what don't you like about

working with marketing agencies?

Like what marketing help do you actually need?

Where do you think marketing agencies don't deliver on

what they're promising?

And so I just like created this manifesto of like, well.

This is all the things people don't like.

I will just do the opposite of those and then I'll have

like this great agency.

And one of the things that came out through those

conversations was, I hate how everybody's selling me a course.

I don't want, and remember this is beginning of Covid,

so this isn't even where the course in coaching,

boom exploded, post covid.

This was like right at the beginning and everybody

was then complaining about how like, everybody just

wants to sell me a course.

I don't have time to do courses.

I just need direct answers to the specific questions I have

so I can grow my business.

And so I, I told them that.

I was like, this is what people actually want.

And they're like, well, that's not, you know, that's

not really like, that's kind of anecdotal, like that's

based on conversations.

We don't have any like data points on that.

And I was like, all right, I'll redo the research.

So I spent a whole month interviewing business owners

following a system, and I took back the data and I was like,

look, it's the same result.

Like everything I told you is here.

And they're like, okay, we'll get rid of it.

We'll just do the coaching thing.

So.

At the time, like when they brought me on, they had these

very lofty goals for what we, we were gonna be able to achieve.

And, you know, I was all on board because I had

shares in the company.

So I was like, yeah, let's do it.

Like, let's rip.

Uh, but the, the whole process was just kind of

fraught from the beginning.

So like, we launched our first campaign on Facebook.

We got banned for six months, the very first day.

So then we had to move over to pay per click and buying

leads from bark.com and like we started to gain some traction

and by the, the end of the first six months, we'd already grossed

a hundred K in annual revenue.

So I was like, all right, so this is working.

But the problem was, is that I couldn't take any more clients.

We'd capped out, which meant that the goals for the second

half of the year were gonna be like, pretty, like we weren't

gonna make very much more money.

Like we had pretty much made the money we were gonna

make for the year, which didn't make them happy.

They said, you know, well, you know, we gotta get

another sales person on.

So we tried a sales person, you know, we, we ended

that year, started the next year with a salesperson.

That salesperson didn't work out, and they're just looking

at the numbers and they're looking at me and they're

looking at like, what we're actually able to produce.

And they're just like, we don't really have the

appetite for this anymore.

Like, we thought this was gonna be like a multimillion

dollar business overnight.

And the way this, the way you're running it.

It can't, it can't grow at the pace we want it to grow.

And I was looking at the books and I was like, well, one of the

reasons is because we're saddled with all these really expensive

retainers, like 5,000 to a marketing company, 3000 to a pay

per click agency, 2000 a month for, uh, an accounting firm,

$2,800 a month for HubSpot.

And so I'm looking at the balance sheet.

I'm like, if we just get rid of these things, like

we're profitable, like we're not in the red anymore.

And they were just like, well, no, that this

is how you run agency.

You need all these things and like, it's your

job to make this work.

And so when, when they came to me and they said, you know, we,

we'd like you to buy it out.

Uh, I was both, I was both.

Really excited and really horrified because my wife was

not, uh, was uh, six months pregnant at that point.

And so I had to tell a six month pregnant lady with her first

kid that like, Hey, guess what?

I'm gonna take out this big loan.

I'm gonna buy my partners out and uh, we're gonna

try to make this work.

And, um, she was like, yeah, sounds good.

Fantastic.

Just totally supportive.

Didn't doubt me.

Didn't like say, well, maybe you should go

back on the job market.

'cause that was the alternative, was like, I turned them down and

then go back on the job market.

And they're like, she's like, you think you can grow it?

And I was like, absolutely, no, I can grow it.

Like if I cut all these things we're already,

we're profitable overnight.

She's like, great.

So the, we ended up working on the deal all

of March of that year.

March ended up being our most profitable month of all time.

I bought the business on April Fool's Day on April 1st.

So our, our anniversary is actually coming up,

the day after I bought it, like we closed on the first, the

day after I fired everybody.

I fired HubSpot, I fired the accounting firm, the marketing.

I canceled every single contract we had with vendors.

And by the end of April we were in the black for the first time

in the history of the business.

Amazing.

And that even that was even with having the debt payments

to pay back the loan I took out to buy the business

and, and all of this stuff.

So like it was one of those things that like, it, it was

at the time when it happened, it was really just like me

looking at the numbers and I'm like, we're profitable.

We're just, we're just burdened by expenses.

We don't need, like we can do all this stuff for much less.

But in the lead up to it, it really was.

These guys just have a different.

Idea about what success in this business looks like.

And I think it's gonna grow slower, but I think it

can, it can be meaningful and impactful if we, if

we grow it the right way.

So like, where we are now is a far, far cry from

where we started out.

Uh, but you know, the, the business very quickly

grew from that point forward and that's great.

You know, it, it's changed a lot, but it's

the business I wanna run.

Yeah.

The business somebody else wants.

Yeah.

I mean, you had tremendous foresight to, to see the, the

gaps and to be able to, you know, deal with it right away

as soon as you, you took over.

I'm curious that, that lead up to them.

Um, your partners coming to you and saying, we think

you should buy it out.

One, was there, had something been said before that they

came up with this or, and sorry, and part two, um,

what was that like for you?

Like, I'd imagine it'd be quite stressful because you can see

how things could be done better.

And, um, yeah, go on.

Like

I, first of all, I appreciate both of my former

business partners for everything they gave me and all the, the

coaching they gave me and like, these are two industry titans.

Like there is, there is, they are very smart guys, but they

were running a business at an enterprise level and trying

to serve small businesses.

And those are very different markets.

And like even now that we're moving more into the enterprise

level, it's only now where a lot of the stuff they were

doing would actually make sense.

Like the, the, you know, high price marketing team

and, and all that stuff at the, the area where we

started, which was focused on true small businesses.

They couldn't afford a $5,000 marketing retainer each month.

Like they were barely skimping by with like the $500 marketing

retainer I could offer them.

So it was one of these things that there was just.

Very early on, I feel like, because I grew up in the small

business arena and I know what people will pay for things and

I know how things need to be sold to this group of people.

And they had more enter enterprise experience.

Like, you know, they were heads of marketing at these

very large organizations.

I feel like there was a disconnect there and I, I

was seeing one version of the world and they were seeing

another version of the world.

And so like all throughout there was this constant like,

Hey, you need to do more.

And me saying, what else can I do?

Like I'm, I'm working 60 hours a week serving clients,

like I don't have any more time to do sales calls.

Well then you need to raise the rates.

Well.

But if I raise the rates, then I'm gonna lose these

clients, and then I'm gonna have to sell clients on a

higher ticket package that I'm not sure is gonna work.

And so it was this constant like battle back and forth,

uh, of like, which, you know, we want it to go this way.

We want it to go, I want it to go this way.

And so the really, the, the writing was kind of on the

wall that there was a, a big disconnect between this.

At the end of that first year, we went over the books together

and that was the first time I brought up, like, I was like,

well, listen, if we cut out all these services, like this

business will be profitable.

And their position was, you know, if I remember

correctly, it was essentially like, we have these services

to help you be successful.

You need to be successful above and beyond what

these services cost.

Which is a fair, a fair statement from

their perspective.

But from the, what I was seeing on the ground, it

wasn't going to be, it wasn't reasonable from the sense of.

If you want to hit these numbers, we need to radically

change the core of the business, which is what I ended up doing.

So later on in that year, after I bought them out, like

I shifted away from coaching pretty dramatically and

shifted like way more into the agency services because

that's really how I, that was what I wanted to do to grow.

That's where I saw the opportunity.

I was like, we have all this good skillset, most

of the people I'm talking to that are able to afford

this level of, uh, pricing, don't want coaching.

They just want someone to do it for them.

So let's just do it for them.

And so throughout that whole experience, it was just

like, you know, they, the, the differences between us

were enough that I was like.

There's, there's definitely two roads here.

Maybe they're right, maybe with a different person in charge,

with a different perspective.

They could make this work, but I didn't, I didn't

see the possibility.

I thought we either have to radically change the

business into more of a traditional agency model,

which is what we did.

Or we need to be happy with limited growth

and a slower rollout.

So, because they didn't really want either of those options.

They wanted, we want this coaching program to grow

like an agency would grow without the agency backend.

It was like, oh, we're, we're kind of stuck.

Like we didn't really have a, a way forward.

And so that process leading up to it was, you know, the,

the first three months of that, or the first two months

rather of that year were rocky.

Like we had the, the salesperson didn't work out for us that

we had spent a bunch of money on, and I, I think it really

was like just the writing on the wall kind of thing.

Like, I was just happy when they came to me

with the buyout offer.

Yeah.

Because I figured they were just gonna fire me and, or put,

put someone else in that was more aligned with their kind

of, um, enterprise viewpoints.

But when they were like, yeah, we just don't, we wanna

take our money and invest it elsewhere and, you know,

buy, and we want you to buy us out and here's our number.

I was like, yeah, that's, that is, that is honestly

the best scenario for all of us because I can now take

this and prove myself Right.

That I know what this business needs.

Yeah.

And you

can, you know, take your money

and invest it elsewhere.

Wow.

Yeah.

Again, it's the, the foresight we were talking about before.

I wish I could say I could see into a crystal ball,

but it really is because I took the time to listen to customers.

Like that's all it really was, is that I had spent so much time

under the hood with customers and hearing them talk about

what they wanted and the prices and their budgets and what was

affordable and what was not affordable, that I was just

like, okay, well there's, we're operating right now in a gap at

the marketplace where there's just not a lot of people.

People that want to pay high amount of dollars for

coaching and not receive any backend services, and for this

specific area for marketing coaching, there's just not

a lot of people out there.

Mm-hmm.

Drew, what would you say for people who

want to learn how to listen to their customers better?

So I think in some, in some sense in this day and age,

we have so many voices and so many outlets for our

opinions and our ideas.

As customers, but then you also have, as a business, you

are, you know, you're quite focused on actually growing

the bus business, running the business, and then you have

to also, in the midst of all that, listen to the, to the

customers and try and shape your, um, services around that.

What would you say are, um, some key ways to do that?

Well,

so I mean, in, in all honesty, like this

is way simpler than anybody, like, everybody thinks of this

as like a technical issue.

Like we just have to, we have to take all our reviews from

Google and put 'em through AI and like figure out what the

common thread is and like, yeah, there's some validity

there, especially for large organizations that got a

lot of consumer feedback or a lot of support tickets.

Like yeah, leveraging AI to process all that raw data and

come up with some actionable insights is like, yeah, that's

great, but if you really want to get to know your customers,

there's no better way to do them than just call them

up and have a conversation with them and not try to.

In part during that conversation, additional

solutions or tell them how they're doing things wrong

or they're not using your product the right way.

Just listen and understand that if there are

issues, that they're not using it the right way.

That's not a problem with them.

It's a problem with how you onboarded them.

It's a problem with how they were sold the product.

Like if a customer comes to me and says, well you,

you know, I signed this up because I thought you were

gonna do X, Y, Z, and none of those things were included.

I have to go back.

It's not their fault.

Like something told them in that sales process, some

email, some text message something, told them that I

was gonna do all these things.

So what I should be doing is going back and figuring

out, okay, where, where did that disconnect occur?

How do I fix that for the next person coming through so we

don't have this issue again.

And when it comes down to like launching new products or making

product improvements, like I have a company right now that

I'm, I am not terribly happy with because they changed

their, they, they upgraded their platform and made it

significantly less usable and they broke a lot of stuff

that I was really counting on as being a, a consistent

part of the, the experience of using the platform.

And so all it really would've taken them to do is to go out

to their customers and have an interview and say, how

could we make this better?

Or, let me understand your use case.

Walk me through how you're building these.

And you do enough of those and you start seeing common

threads like, okay, everybody really likes this feature,

so that feature has to stay.

Or everybody's building stuff in this particular way, so we can't

go and change our our fittings because that's gonna mess

everything up down the pipeline.

So many times people do all this research and development

internal and not actually bring the customer in

until the beta is released.

And at, at that point, when you're releasing a beta,

you're looking for bug fixes.

You're not looking for like full, changing the

whole customer experience.

Like that's what an alpha phase is for.

Like, that's, that's where you're really dialing

in like how things work.

Once you're in the beta test, it's too late.

You've invested too much time and money building something,

and if you didn't get good feedback on it during the

beta or during your alpha stage, then your beta is just

going to, the only thing you really can do is fix bugs.

So, I mean, I appreciate when a business will, you know,

when they make an error, actually come back and say.

We made a big pro, like this was a big mistake.

Um, we don't know how to fix it yet.

We're working on it.

This is what our promise to you is.

These three things that you guys are concerned about,

we're going to address.

So like that shows that you've, you're actually listening to

them, that they're not just filling out a survey and it's

getting sent into the void.

Mm-hmm.

Like having that, that two-way communication where they're

sharing their ideas with you and their struggles with you

and their pain points with you.

And then you coming back and saying, I hear all that.

Here's what we're changing, is often what is going to m make

more meaningful relationships with your customers.

I mean, one of the things I tell a lot of new entrepreneurs

to do is that when you start a business, your first five

clients should automatically be, you know, kind of enrolled

into your board of advisors.

And the reason for this is twofold.

First.

They're actively paying you.

They have a vested interest in making sure your business

succeeds and making sure the product they're getting

is best so they can help kind of guide your product.

And that way you eliminate having to talk

to thousands of people.

Instead, you can listen to the, the, the people

that are paying you.

Yeah.

And it also builds an incredible amount of rapport

because now these people think they, they are perceiving

you as someone that is, uh, appreciates the value that

they're bringing to the table, the knowledge, the skillset

they're bringing to the table.

And you're actually taking them seriously enough to take

them out to dinner once a month or to, to get on a call

with other business owners and share ideas about what

they like and don't like, and your openness to accept that

criticism without getting defensive or saying, well,

you're just not using it, right?

Or, let me teach you how to do that.

There's a better way.

Like, just take it, just take the fact that you're gonna

get that criticism and then respond to it in a way that

says, okay, we get that.

Here's how we're gonna fix it.

Yeah, I think as a healthy business, you'd

want the criticism, right?

Because you're never gonna be perfect out the gate.

And you need that to know, you need the feedback to

know how you can be better.

A hundred percent.

I mean, I, I think, you know, all the companies

that I am passionate about promoting, I all feel like they

understand their customers.

Like they get, they get who they're trying to sell

to, they get who they're building for, and they're

responsive to concerns.

So like, you know, if I have an issue and I email

somebody, send a response back in a timely fashion.

Yeah.

Don't make me wait a week to hear back from you.

Don't put me in some endless ticket queue that, you know,

someone's never gonna check.

Especially for someone like me who's using a lot of tools

that are not necessarily like public facing tools, they're

more enterprise level tools.

Yeah.

Like I ex I, if I have a problem, I expect it

for the money I'm paying.

I expect it to be fixed.

Like, you know, I'm not just giving you money to not.

Make this program better.

I'm, I'm giving you money because I need, I

need it for my business.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I, I totally agree with what you're saying.

And I think also having a, um, a channel for your customers

to be able to reach out to you if there's an issue or if they

want to give you feedback.

I think that's quite important too, because sometimes

we just assume they'll, they'll know how to do that.

They can just get in touch through our website or whatever,

but unless you're act actively telling them, Hey, email us,

or, you know, um, DM us on Instagram or whatever it is.

I think that's also helpful.

What would you say to that,

one of the best SaaS companies in

the world right now in terms of customer service

and support is heartbeat.

So they're a community platform.

They're small, a small team.

It's probably like 10 people, but their ability to

communicate and take in user feedback is second in line.

I've never seen a business that's better at this.

So just to give you an idea of how involved the CEO o is, the

CEO's name is a. Mor Deza, and he has been a public facing

figure from the beginning.

He used to, I, he might still do this.

When you book a demo call, you book it with him and

like, that's incredible.

Like most people would be like, oh, just get a VA to do that.

It's like, no.

He cares so much about making sure that you see

the value here, that he wants to take that call.

He's active inside of their community.

He answers questions.

He's publicly visible.

He runs the town hall every month.

At the end of each town hall, he opens the forum so that if

you have complaints, if you have questions, if you have problems

you're having, you can get them addressed right then and there.

When there are problems with the platform, they jump on

them, they own up to it.

They had a support queue issue, uh, a year or two ago.

They would update on a weekly basis.

This is what we're trying, we're we're just, we had

a bunch of new users join.

We are trying to help everybody like, please, like

we're, we are doing our best.

Here's where the support queue is now.

This is what our goal is to turn stuff around.

And they would give updates, Hey, we brought in three new

support reps to help with this.

Like, you know, if you're having additional

problems, like let us know.

They were owning up to their own faults and they were

being transparent about their plans to solve them.

And at the whole time, they never cut down

limited communication.

He still has his email out there publicly.

You can still email him.

He will respond remarkably quickly.

Like, I don't know how he does anything else

in the business without quickly he responds Emails.

Yeah.

But like, and, and the whole team has this ethos of like.

We are here for the customers.

You know, it's, it's like that story of Zappos, you know,

back in the day where like, you know, I, I forget what it was.

It was like, you know, they were on the phone with a

customer and the customer said something about like,

oh, you're in Las Vegas.

I love this particular pizza that they make in Las Vegas.

And he was in like Salt Lake City.

And the customer service rep got into his car, picked

up the pizza, delivered the pizza and the guy's shoes

by hand to Salt Lake City.

Wow.

It's like, yes.

Is that insane?

A hundred percent.

Is that insane?

But look, can you imagine that customer ever buying

shoes from anywhere else?

Never.

So if the cost was one pizza and a trip to Salt

Lake City worth, and that customer is now customer

for life, pretty good deal.

Yeah, pretty good deal.

So like, I, I think a lot of people think that, you know.

The status quo is acceptable for customer service.

But what they don't realize is the status quo is terrible.

So it, all you have to do is be one run, one ring above terrible

and you're already outcompeting 90% of the marketplace.

'cause most people have terrible customer service.

Yeah.

You know, it's the, a good, another good example, like

more brick and mortar, home Depot and Ace Hardware.

Right.

Home Depot has cheaper prices for sure.

Right.

Good luck finding anybody that knows anything.

Right.

They used to hire, you know, home Depot used to be really

good 'cause they would hire retired contractors

and they would put them in the departments that

they were specialized in.

So you'd have a former electrician in the electrical

department, a former plumber in the plumbing department.

Well, a couple years ago they started just

hiring anybody and so.

And, and they're always understaffed.

They never have enough people.

So you end up spending half your time at Home Depot walking

around to find someone, only to find someone that knows nothing

about your department that's then gonna call another person.

That you're then gonna have to wait 20 minutes for them to get

off a forklift to come help you.

And even they may or may not know what you're looking for.

Now, compare that experience.

Yes, you're paying less.

It's a big box store, so you're paying less.

Compare that with going to your local ACE hardware.

You walk in the door, you're immediately greeted,

you're approached by.

Always one person, if not three different people, asking

you, Hey, how can we help you?

What are you looking for today?

They then walk you directly to the thing you're looking

for and will spend as much time as you need to make

sure that you're getting the right piece that you need.

Like I cannot tell you the number of times I've walked

in with a random screw from something that I need, and

the guy will go through every screw bin in the Ace hardware

to try to find a screw that will match and test it and

measure the length and make suggestions about like,

well, this one will work.

But you might need to cut off the end, but you

shouldn't cut off the end until you put the bolt on.

'cause then it won't spin off.

Right?

You'd never get that level of service at a Home

Depot, but you'll always get it at Ace Hardware.

Are you gonna pay more?

Yeah, you'll pay marginally more at Ace Hardware.

But I'm telling you what, if I know exactly what I need

outta Home Depot, then I'll go to Home Depot and save myself

the 50 cents or whatever.

Yeah.

But if I'm kind of confused, if I have a couple of

different options, I'm always going to ace.

Yeah.

'cause Ace is gonna help me.

Yeah.

Like they're, they, they have people and they all, and because

it's a local neighborhood hardware store, you know,

everybody there, it's not this rotating cast of characters

in, in, in and out every week.

The people that work at ACE work there for 20 years.

So they know you.

I know every single person that works at my local Ace and that

should just give you an idea of how often I go to Ace Hardware.

Yeah,

it's,

it's, but, but they don't leave because it's,

it's a good working environment.

They're paid well and they like being

helpful

and they, they're experts in what they do.

So, yeah.

And they must have many happy customers like you

who, um, who can speak to that.

And I guess also, you're not just paying for the

product, you're also paying for the service.

You're, you're paying for the peace of mind that you've got

the exact right thing that you need for your project.

So there's so much more to it than just an exchange of

product and money, isn't it?

Oh, a hundred percent.

And like, you know, every time my, my wife, my wife is

tiny, she's like five feet tall, uh, you know, weighs

as much as a bag of hammers.

So like, she is not going to be able to lift a propane tank

into the back of our truck or bags of sand or all that stuff.

I mean, she could probably muscle it if she was really

under the gun to do it, but that's not, not going

to be something that's particularly fun, especially

while she's watching a two and a half year old.

Every time you check out a ace with something that's

even a little bit heavy, Hey, can we bring that to the car

for you every single time?

Yeah.

It's, it's a foregone conclusion that they're gonna ask.

You don't have at Home Depot.

You'd be lucky.

You'd be lucky.

You'd be lucky if someone's at the customer service desk.

You're doubly lucky if there's someone willing to help you

take it out to your car.

So it's just a different level of, uh, it, it's a different

level of customer service.

It's a different level of compassion for the customer.

Uh, it, it's not a volume play for Ace.

It's a customer service play.

Yeah.

Drew, this has been really fun.

I really enjoyed our conversation and I love how

that, um, that lesson you learned really early on at

the age of 22, how you've been able to incorporate that into

your business life, into your home life, and, um, you just,

how you're living it out.

I think it's fantastic.

Well, it was, it was a pleasure talking with you.

I, I appreciate you having me on.

No problem.

Drew, before we go, where can our listeners connect with you

and learn more about GroHause?

Sure.

So, uh, you can, uh, go to our website, G-R-O-H-A-U s.org.

Uh, you can email me, drew@grohause.org.

Uh, I, out of all the social media channels, I am most

active on X and that's, uh, G R 0 H A U S because there's

some guy with an abandoned, uh.

Twitter account that has stole my brand name because Klan's

name is actually Grohause.

So No way.

Can't be too mad at him.

But if anyone knows, I think it's like, uh, yeah,

G-R-O-H-A-U-S on, uh, Twitter.

Tell him I wanna buy his name from him, but yeah.

Um, but feel free to connect anywhere on there.

I'm on LinkedIn, you can find me as well.

Um, but yeah, I'd, I'd be happy to meet with any of your

listeners and kind of talk about their, their marketing

strategy and what they're doing.

Amazing.

Thank you so much.

And for those tuning in, you'll find all the links to

Drew in the details and in the description of the show.

Well, that's it for today's episode, Drew.

Thanks again for your time and your wisdom and your insight.

It's been really great to have you.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

No problem.

And to our listeners, thanks for joining us.

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe for more

conversations that Open Doors.

Create opportunities and shape the way we think.

So from d from Drew, so from Drew and from me.

Thanks for listening.

I'll see you next time.