Gravity and Grit: How SpaceTech Startups are Pioneering & Prospering | The Pair Program Ep34

In this episode, we dive into the world of SpaceTech startups in a candid conversation with two of the sector's brightest minds: Ben Reed, CTO and co-founder of Quantum Space, and Derek Strobel, the Lead Software Engineer and first employee of Kayhan Space.

Here’s what they discuss:

• The unique challenges that startups face in the SpaceTech industry (and how they’re solving those problems).
• Recent trends and changes that they’ve witnessed while working in the sector.
• What gets them excited about where they’re heading.
• How techies can step into this world and find a career at a SpaceTech startup.
• And much more!

About the Guests:

Ben Reed is the Chief Technology Officer and co-founder of Quantum Space LLC, a commercial space company dedicated to advancing humanity’s journey to the stars - focused on safe, reliable and efficient space travel further from earth. Prior to Quantum, Ben served as Vice President Engineering for IBX - an innovation and investment firm. In 2018 he served as Director Civil Space Policy for the National Space Council, Executive Office of the President. Ben worked at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center for 22 years, his final role being Chief of Exploration and In-Space Services Division. He was lead materials engineer on the last three Hubble Servicing Missions.

Derek Strobel is a software engineer with over 5 years of experience in spaceflight safety systems. In 2019, Derek became the first employee of Kayhan Space, a commercial Space Situational Awareness (SSA) software startup founded by industry veteran Dr. Siamak Hesar and experienced tech founder Araz Feyzi. As Lead Software Engineer, Derek has helped build Kayhan into a team of over 20 employees, providing essential spaceflight safety services for hundreds of satellites.

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Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

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a front row seat to candid conversations

with tech leaders from the startup world.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the

creator of Hatchpad, and I'm

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your other host, Mike Gruen.

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Join us each episode as we bring

together two guests to dissect topics

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at the intersection of technology,

startups, and career growth.

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Hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to another

episode of The Pair Program.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler,

joined by my co host, Mike Gruen.

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Mike, what's going on?

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing all right.

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How are you doing?

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I'm good.

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Good.

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I wanted to play a quick

game with you here.

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I gave you a little heads up on it,

but I'm going to run it by you here.

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So my wife and I over the weekend,

we took a road trip and you know,

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we're talking about some of our

past parents and one that came up

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was the road trips and car snacks.

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So here's the game.

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So if you're on a long road trip

and you stop out at a gas station

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to fill up, you're heading into the

store, load up on snacks, drinks

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for the next leg of the trip.

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You 10 budget.

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Okay.

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What's on that list of items that you're,

that you're grabbing without exceeding

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10, 10 jerky, jerky of some sort.

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Uh, okay, well that's expensive.

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Derek Strobel: So you're going to,

I think I just hit 9 right there

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Mike Gruen: and then maybe, and maybe,

uh, if I can get a cheap cup of coffee

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or something, depending on what time

of day it is or some sort of drink, but

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Derek Strobel: jerky is just a jerky

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Tim Winkler: man.

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Yeah.

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For a road trip.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Um, I'm going peanut M& Ms.

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Small bag of Doritos, like the purple

bag, the sweet and spicy chili.

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Uh, Red Bull and a bottle of water.

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It's a

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Mike Gruen: nice, fully

support the peanut.

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I'm going to have

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Tim Winkler: some, uh, yeah.

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Peanuts are key.

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Yeah.

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I mean,

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Derek Strobel: chocolate, peanut butter,

a little protein, a little sweetness.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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All right.

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Good, good times.

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Um, all right, let's, uh,

let's, let's give our listeners

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a preview of today's episode.

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So today we're going to be talking

about the final frontier, uh, space, uh,

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topic that I'm personally a big fan of.

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I'm sure a lot of our listeners.

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We'll appreciate this episode, uh,

specifically, we're going to be talking

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about space tech as a vertical, uh,

dissecting how to innovate, um, or I'm

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sorry, how to innovative startups are

kind of pioneering in the industry.

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So for today's discussion, we've

looped in two guests that are joining

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us from two space tech startups.

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Uh, we have Ben Reed, who is the co

founder and CTO of Quantum Space.

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Um, also notably worked directly

with NASA's Goddard Space Flight

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Center for a number of years.

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Uh, and Derek Strobel, the lead

software engineer for Kahan Space.

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Um, also like to highlight that

Derek was the first employee

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hired at this early stage startup.

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So Ben and Derek, thank you both

for joining us on the pair program.

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Happy to be here.

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Derek Strobel: Thanks for inviting us.

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Tim Winkler: Good stuff.

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All right.

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Now, uh, before we dive into the

discussion, we do like to kick things

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off with a fun segment called pair me up.

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This is where we will go around the room

and kind of spitball a couple of, uh, Our

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favorite parents, Mike, you kick us off.

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Uh, what do you got for us today?

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So today's is,

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Derek Strobel: um,

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Mike Gruen: anxiety and courage.

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Um, so, um, sort of having to

get over that anxiety and the

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courage to do and things like that.

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It's somewhat personal.

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Um, my son went off to

Boy Scout camp recently.

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Um, I was very nervous about it,

um, because there's, it's a pretty

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chaotic scene, um, sort of, and

dealt with it and got over it and it

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was turned out to be a great trip.

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Um, so it's sort of inspiring, just sort

of remembering that like anxiety is fine.

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So it's, you know, that's fine

and then the courage to get

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Derek Strobel: over it.

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So that's,

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Tim Winkler: that's my parent.

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Cool.

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I dig that.

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How long has he gone for?

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Uh, a week.

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And it's a, it's a trip he's

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Mike Gruen: done several times, but it

gets, there's a lot of sleep deprivation

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and, uh, it's because it's Boy Scouts.

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They're sort of responsible for

themselves and doing a lot of things.

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And so it's, um, the anxiety of like,

not having to be responsible for getting

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every single thing done himself and

maybe relying on some of the other

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guys in the troop to pull their weight.

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Sometimes.

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So, um, so yeah, so that's

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Ben Reed: nice.

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It's a, I speak to a lot of

school groups and I tell personal

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story where I've taken the, um.

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Pretty big career steps in my career

and, uh, was not qualified for

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any of the steps when I took them.

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But if you, uh, and that made me, you

know, a little bit of imposter syndrome

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and by a little bit, I mean a lot.

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Um, but I always advise, uh, these,

these school aged kids that, uh, in

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your life, you need to be comfortable

with being a little afraid you need

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to be okay with having little anxiety,

because if you're completely qualified

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for the very next step in your career,

well, how big of a step is that, right?

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Right.

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That if you really want growth, you

need to be able to go for those,

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those, uh, those quantum leaps,

which is actually part of where

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the name of my company comes from.

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Um, you have to be comfortable

with being a little uncomfortable.

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Um, and that's sometimes hard

for them to grasp, but I think

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it's an important concept to, uh,

to get across early on in, in.

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Young people's minds.

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Tim Winkler: Absolutely.

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Yeah, well said.

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Yeah, I've been reading a book called

mindset to it's kind of a, you know,

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position yourself in that growth mindset

versus fixed mindset where growth mindset.

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It's okay to make mistakes

because you learn from them.

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You grow from them.

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Um, whereas fixed mindset, you come

down on yourself really hard and.

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You feel shamed.

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And so it's, uh, it's, uh, it's good

to, good to hear that from you, Ben.

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I'd also say, you know, uh,

anxiety sometimes, uh, and bourbon

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not for boy scouts.

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You gotta be of age and, uh, we

don't advocate all of that for.

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All right, I'll jump in now.

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So I'm going to, um, I'm going to go

with the chiropractor and euphoria.

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Um, so I saw a chiropractor for

the very first time recently.

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I've never been to one before.

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I've always heard mixed reviews

from folks on chiros, like, you

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know, getting adjustments that some

horror stories, some amazing stories.

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Uh, so I had some, some lower

back pain for a few months.

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I thought I'd give it a try.

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And I had no idea how the equipment all

worked, but, um, you know, for those.

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that I've never experienced this before.

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I'll paint the picture for you.

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So they kind of lay you out on a table.

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Uh, they call it a drop table.

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Um, it's got these adjustable sections

that use hydraulics to kind of raise

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or lower different sections to target

different sections of your spine.

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And, um, they use this to

perform like adjustments.

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So, uh, no, I haven't

never seen one before.

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Uh, I don't regularly

crack my back or my neck.

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Um, so I can just tell

you that this, this woman.

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This woman cracked the hell out of my

body and it felt, it felt incredible.

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And so it was only about 15 minutes,

but afterwards I stood up and.

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They can only describe this

feeling as, as euphoric.

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So, uh, I have signed up for a few, uh,

you know, ongoing, uh, adjustments, uh,

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the next few months, I'll be sure to kind

of give a follow up review and see if

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it's, uh, still, still serving as that

same descriptor, but, um, Have either

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of you all been to the, uh, chiropractor

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Derek Strobel: before?

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Sounds kind of scary to be honest.

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What you just described, I think

I'm a little less likely now.

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Tim Winkler: Uh, I had an uncle

who went and he became like

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Derek Strobel: addicted to it.

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So, uh, I've been hesitant.

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You're not held in my case, Mike.

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Ben Reed: I

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Derek Strobel: had lower back pain for

a while and I found that my problem

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was a lot simpler because I was just

spending too much time in my chair.

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So I got to get out of that problem

without having to, the only expensive

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equipment I needed was my own legs.

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Tim Winkler: There you go.

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Yeah.

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Stan standing desk is also helpful.

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All right, good stuff.

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Um, well let's go ahead and

pass it on to our guests now.

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So Derek, why don't you give us a

quick intro and then, uh, tell us

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Derek Strobel: your parent.

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Yeah, definitely.

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So yeah, my name is Derek Strobel.

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I'm the lead software engineer at

Kayon Space as Tim introduced me.

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So I've been working in space flight

safety software for about five years now.

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And I'm just looking forward to, you

know, continuing doing that here at

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Kayon Space with all that we're doing.

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So thanks for having me

and my pairing today.

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So I'm a new homeowner actually

this year, a first time homeowner.

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So my pairing is garden

related, gardening related.

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So it's actually, and

I also brought props.

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My pairing is, uh, eating blueberries from

my own garden and this hat that I bought

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that makes me feel like a little farmer.

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Hey, nice.

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I'm not a farmer.

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I just walk around my yard,

picking blueberries, eating

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them right off the bush.

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Tim Winkler: That's fantastic.

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That is fantastic.

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What else are, uh, what else

are you gardening out there?

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What are you growing?

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Derek Strobel: Yeah.

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I mean, it's our first year growing

stuff, so there's not a ton.

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We have like one big raised bed, so

we've got tomatoes, obviously, the

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quintessential summer, summer veggie.

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Um, which are still all green, but I'm

really looking forward to eating one.

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We grew some cilantro, which

I immediately messed up and

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has since bolted and flowered.

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Uh, Liv you learned some brassicas.

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Uh, so going to be expanding our

garden a lot next year for sure.

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Tim Winkler: Nice.

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Cool.

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Good stuff.

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Yeah, I've always found like

gardening or getting out the

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yard like that's therapeutic too.

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It's like a good way to just.

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Burn off some stress as well.

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Oh yeah, definitely.

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And bonus points too.

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That's the first time we've

had props, uh, introduced.

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So trailblazing Derek, I love it.

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Awesome.

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All right.

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Good stuff.

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Uh, let's pass it along to our,

our next guest, Ben, uh, quick

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intro from yourself and your

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Derek Strobel: parent.

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Ben Reed: Uh, so intro for myself, uh,

father of four kids, four fabulous kids.

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Um, Been married, uh, 32

years just coming October.

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I know it's impossible for

somebody who looks as young as

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I do to be married that long.

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Um, uh, back a decade ago, about

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said that, um, to help out a friend

who was running an animal shelter.

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Uh, we should foster puppies for them.

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So we just hold on to the puppy.

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That's going to be put down

in a, in a high kill shelter.

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We hold on to them until somebody

else reviews the application.

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Thankfully that wasn't,

uh, that wasn't me or us.

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Um, uh, sometimes for a few days,

sometimes for a few months until they,

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until they were adopted to a forever home.

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So from 2010 to 2020, uh,

with the pandemic kind of

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altered things a little bit.

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Uh, we fostered about 120

dogs coming to our house.

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Um, and, uh, so that was,

um, sometimes stressful.

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Uh, but, uh, on the on the balance,

it was fabulously rewarding and it was

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great to my 4 kids growing up to go

through that experience to take care of.

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Of things more helpless than them.

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Um, so my pairing is a

puppies and laminate flooring,

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you do not want hardwoods.

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You do not want carpet.

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You want laminate flooring.

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Fabulous to clean up.

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So that's, that's my pairing for the day.

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Nice.

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Wow.

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Tim Winkler: That's that's

strong, strong prayer.

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Well played.

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Well played 120 dogs.

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That's incredible.

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So also teaches your kids to

let things go, which is a good

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Ben Reed: lesson.

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Yeah, I'll tell you not to make this

podcast about that, but I'll tell

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you the, uh, people often ask me,

how did you, how did you let them go?

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We had two dogs of our own.

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One was a foster fail and one was

one of those hours, um, beforehand.

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Um, and so we had to, most the

vast majority of people adopting

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were going from zero to one.

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Or sometimes zero to two.

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And so to see the joy that the dog

would bring into their lives, it made

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turning them over so much easier.

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If, if it was a black wall

and I didn't get that.

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To have the, uh, the experience

of seeing their faces light up.

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It would have been a lot harder, but

to see the joy that the puppies were

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bringing them, it made turning them

over, not, not always easy, but,

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but, uh, uh, incredibly rewarding.

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Awesome.

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Tim Winkler: That's great.

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So, so you all didn't ever

adopt your own in the house.

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Ben Reed: Yeah, just one.

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We had a little guy about eight, about,

uh, uh, 15 pounds who, uh, Parvo when he

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was in a, a kennel before coming to us.

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It was a little bit

harder to, uh, to place.

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And so we kept the little guy

and we still have him today.

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That's our little guy's name is Nathan.

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So Nathan is still with us today.

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Tim Winkler: Good stuff.

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Awesome.

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Well, I love it.

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Uh, it's a good round.

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Um, let's, let's, uh, let's

keep things rolling here.

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Uh, transition into the main topic.

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So, like I mentioned, we're gonna be

talking about, you know, navigating the

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space tech industry and kind of hearing

this firsthand from our guest, uh, some

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of these different use cases with how.

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Technology is innovating in the space,

uh, discuss some of the unique challenges

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that startups and commercial companies

face when, when pioneering in the

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space, um, talk a little bit about this

shift, uh, in the space tech market from

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government back to commercial backed.

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And then for those listeners who are

curious or interested in exploring

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opportunities in the vertical.

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We'll cover hiring and navigating a

career in the space tech industry.

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So, um, a lot to get to, uh, why don't we

have, uh, Ben, you kick us off and maybe

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first give us a little bit of background

and context on the work that quantum

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space is doing, uh, some of these problems

that you're solving, and then we'll do

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the same with you, Derek, on, on KHAN.

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But let's start with you, Ben.

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Sure.

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Ben Reed: Uh, so, uh, my career

was 22 years with, uh, NASA

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Goddard Space Flight Center.

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Um, in, in Greenbelt,

Maryland, just outside of D.

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C.

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Um, I, uh, I, uh, took a rotational

assignment to the White House and

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spent a little time in the White

House, um, on the National Space

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Council staff, uh, back in 2018.

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Um, and then in 2020, um, about the

same time that I was getting out of

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the dog fostering business, um, I

was ready for some new challenges.

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And so I decided to, um, um, leave

the government and I joined up

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with a gentleman by the name of

Cam Ghaffarian, uh, and he and

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I co founded, uh, Quantum Space.

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Uh, so we are a company founded on

the belief that, uh, as humanity,

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Expands outward from the earth, the

low earth orbit, the geosynchronous

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orbit and further out towards the moon.

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Um, that, uh, there is opportunity

for a company like quantum to provide

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essential services, uh, communication

services, position, navigation and

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timing, uh, transportation services.

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We can give people a ride to that orbit.

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Uh, we can also host.

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Their payload on our spacecraft,

uh, both in geo and in in si

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lunar space, uh, out by the moon.

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Um, and, uh, we, we feel that we bring

a tremendous value to our, to our

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customers, uh, with the experience

that we bring, uh, in that space.

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Um, all activities in space are difficult.

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Um, but the further away from

you go from the earth to give the

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difficulty goes up nonlinearly.

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And so, um, anything above

the GPS constellation makes

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navigation, um, much, much harder

communication gets more difficult.

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Um, so we're out there

tackling those hard problems.

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And we look forward to helping our

customers, um, uh, do their missions more

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efficiently and more effectively, uh, with

the services that we can provide them.

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Tim Winkler: Very cool.

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And so it's just a couple of years old.

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Um, I guess how many employees

and, uh, any funding to this

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point and to what amount?

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Ben Reed: Yeah, so we are

a year and a half old.

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Uh, we started, uh, January of 21.

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Uh, we're about 35 or so full-time

employees, um, with part-time and interns.

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It's, I don't know, closer to 45 maybe.

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Um, uh, we are Series A is

complete and, uh, oversubscribed,

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so our funding is solid.

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Um, no issues there.

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Um, and, uh, we are continuing to

make progress on our, on our plans.

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Tim Winkler: Love it.

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Uh, yeah, right there

in our, our backyard.

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Is it Rockville, your headquarters?

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Yeah.

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Ben Reed: Rockville, Maryland,

just outside the DC beltway.

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Tim Winkler: Excellent.

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Awesome.

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Uh, Derek, how about a little

bit more, uh, background on, on

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Derek Strobel: Cajon?

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Yeah, for sure.

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So, uh, Cajon Space, we began in 2019

and, um, are kind of like to ship

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ourselves as a space situation, space

situational awareness software company.

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So, um, the idea being.

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Um, space situational awareness, you

know, sounds like kind of a mouthful, but

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the idea is really just pursuing space

flight safety for satellites by being

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aware of, um, potential risks to your

spacecraft as a satellite operator, right?

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So whether that's collisions or

whatever it may be, um, space

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situational awareness is the pursuit of.

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Um, you know, flying,

flying spacecraft safely.

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So, um, and yeah, like I mentioned,

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Well, we say we, I was around,

but I was not a founder.

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So I was employed number

one into Khan space.

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Um, along with our CEO,

CMXR and, uh, CTR as phasey.

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Who I've been, I actually have known

Samak from a previous, uh, job.

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So, um, we got along well together and

I was serendipitously around for the

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founding of the company, uh, which has

been a pretty wild ride since then.

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So, um, after that, in 2020, we went

through the Techstars, uh, Allied

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Space, uh, accelerator program,

startup accelerator, which was.

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Um, huge kind of, you know, getting

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everything was pretty, um, you know,

turbulent in the tech industry and just

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kind of, you know, at large, um, in the

world, but, uh, we managed to get through

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that and, uh, in 2021, we completed

our seed round, uh, funding with, uh,

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Root Ventures and Overline VC that, um,

kind of, you Really jump started our

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hiring process and allowed us to build

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first two kind of flagship products.

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So those being Cajun Pathfinder, which

is our, um, space traffic coordination

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platform for satellite operators to.

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Um, analyze conjunction information

and basically mitigate the risk of

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colliding and other spacecraft or debris

or anything like that, um, in space,

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as well as Cajon gamut, which is our,

um, launch collision avoidance service.

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So, for, um, launch missions, um,

you know, coming from the earth

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surface, how do you get into space

without hitting anything on the way?

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There is essentially the

problem statement there.

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Um, yeah, so that's, that's

a little bit about Cajon.

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Um, looking forward to talking more.

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Tim Winkler: Cool.

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Uh, same questions, I guess, uh, as for

Ben, like headcount at this point, um,

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where, where you all currently stand.

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Derek Strobel: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So the company is based in

Boulder, Colorado, but we actually

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are a hybrid, uh, organization.

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So I work in Eugene, Oregon.

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Uh, we have folks scattered

all across the U S.

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Um, right now we run a little bit of

a smaller ship, so I think we're right

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around the 20 headcount, um, at the

moment, mostly distributed in engineering.

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Um, and yeah, in terms of

funding, we raised that seed

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round in 2021 that I mentioned.

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And, um, nothing more to report there,

but, uh, looking forward to, you know,

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uh, news coming out in the future.

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Yeah,

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Tim Winkler: I don't think I knew that

you guys came through the cut, uh,

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Techstars, uh, uh, accelerator program.

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That's really neat.

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Derek Strobel: Yeah, we've had

relationships with a few different, um,

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startup accelerator programs, including,

um, the, uh, I should have came prepared

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with the names off the top of my head.

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AWS, uh, hyperspace challenge.

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Um, but Techstars Allied Space was

our first big, um, introduction to

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the world of startup accelerators,

which, um, was a new experience for me.

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It was definitely, um, a big adjustment,

but I think it was a great experience.

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So definitely.

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Tim Winkler: And we'll, we'll

certainly have some questions about

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being first in engineering hire.

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That's always a fascinating, uh, story in

itself, but, uh, let's stay on topic here.

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Um, let's, let's jump into one

of the first, uh, points here.

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So, so Ben, you know, when we

talk about some of these different

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challenges that, you know, commercial

startups will face when innovating

432

in the space tech industry, what,

what are some of these challenges?

433

Um, and, and I guess how is, how is

quantum addressing these challenges?

434

How are other companies

addressing these challenges?

435

Uh, yeah,

436

Ben Reed: so, uh, I don't want to

imply that space is, is the hardest

437

industry, but we do have some unique

challenges that some others don't.

438

Um, and I'll, I'll give an example.

439

I like to give with that is, um.

440

Uh, self driving cars, if you, if

you think you got great software,

441

great sensors for a self driving

car, you buy a couple of cheap

442

cars and you go to a field.

443

And if you crash into a tree, well,

does anybody does anybody cares?

444

Anybody knows you can

crash into a 100 trees.

445

Um, as you, as you develop,

um, um, your, your prowess in

446

all the necessary technologies.

447

Uh, if you're a space company.

448

And you need to pay for a

rocket launch into space.

449

Now you're talking, you know,

easily millions of dollars, if

450

not tens of millions of dollars.

451

And some people pay hundreds of

millions of dollars just to get to the

452

location that you want to operate in,

as opposed to driving into a field.

453

Um, um, and then you turn the

thing on and if there's a bad day.

454

You may need to restart

and do that over again.

455

And so there is a, uh, a capital barrier

to entry to get flight proven systems.

456

Um, and, um, uh, many, uh,

government agencies are reticent to.

457

To invest in your product, um,

without being flight proven.

458

And so there's this, uh, area between

we've developed it on the ground.

459

It hasn't gone to space yet.

460

And that in space world

known as the valley of death.

461

Uh, and it is very difficult for some

companies to cross the value of death.

462

Some aren't able to do it.

463

Um, some are able to do it.

464

If you're your software only, or

very small sensors that can ride

465

along where you're not critical

to the functioning of the.

466

Of the larger spacecraft,

uh, it's a little bit easier.

467

And so there are ways to nibble at it.

468

And as I'm not suggesting that,

that everybody goes through the

469

same hurdles, but, um, but that's

kind of a unique challenge that

470

all space companies, um, face.

471

And then, you know, COVID, uh, gave

us the same challenges that a lot of

472

industries had, although I must say in

some regards, COVID was less challenging

473

for us because the time span to in

round terms to Uh, design, develop,

474

build, test, and launch a satellite.

475

Uh, it's hard to do it

in less than two years.

476

So, three or four years might be

the more typical program last.

477

So, if there's a world pandemic that

takes the world down for one year,

478

what is that in a four year cycle?

479

Right.

480

And so for, I know it destroyed some

businesses completely, and I feel terrible

481

for those, for those, uh, individuals.

482

Um, so the space industry did not suffer

some of the, the terrible causes that,

483

that the pandemic did cause, um, but

we have our own unique challenges.

484

So,

485

Tim Winkler: and, you know, so

you all are building satellites.

486

Um, do you have any currently that

are out, uh, that have been launched?

487

Uh, we do not, we

488

Ben Reed: are using our funding

to develop those satellites.

489

Uh, as I said, in that two,

three, four year process.

490

So we're a year and a

half into that process.

491

So we are not yet at the

buying a rocket stage.

492

Um, so that's, that's a

year or two into our future.

493

Um, looking at that, that macro timescale.

494

Um, um, yeah, stay, stay tuned.

495

We will be having additional news

about launches coming out shortly,

496

but nothing quite yet to announce.

497

Okay.

498

Tim Winkler: Uh, so, so Derek,

why don't we, why don't you fill

499

us in a little bit more from like

a building perspective, right?

500

You know, you're, you're

building software here.

501

What, what kind of challenges

are you up against?

502

And, you know, maybe, you know, for your

customers, you know, what, what makes

503

this a little bit unique or different

from, you know, maybe a, a FinTech

504

software or something along those lines.

505

Derek Strobel: Yeah, absolutely.

506

I think, um, the main thing that I, I

think we ran into as a young company and

507

continue to, you know, constantly kind

of see as a challenge going forward.

508

And I think a lot of space companies

will, will agree is basically

509

just availability of data, right?

510

Data is kind of the lifeblood of

any software company, obviously.

511

But, um, I would say, especially so

in space, almost like Ben was talking

512

about earlier, how, um, you know, we

have kind of everyone else's challenges.

513

Yeah.

514

But kind of compounded by just

the complexity of space, right?

515

Um, so specifically

we're talking about data.

516

Um, you know, data is really hard

to come by, especially in the space

517

industry and reliable data that so,

um, and when I say data, I'm really

518

talking about relative to chaos space.

519

What we do is predict and try to

mitigate the risk of collisions, right?

520

And so that's all about predicting.

521

What's going to happen

in the future, right?

522

But predictions are based

on, uh, observations, right?

523

They're based on observations of reality

that are extrapolated into the future.

524

And if those observations are not of high

quality, or if you don't have very many of

525

them, it's really difficult to make those

accurate predictions into the future.

526

And if that's your business, then

it's, you know, it's important

527

to get and have access to a lot

of high quality observation data.

528

And that's something that's very

expensive if you want to purchase

529

from commercial data providers.

530

So there's Whole companies whose

whole business is basically operating

531

sensors, telescopes, you know, things

like that, whether they're on the

532

ground or in space for observing the,

you know, positions of, of satellites

533

in orbit, you know, tracking data as,

as we refer to it, or also, uh, the U.

534

S.

535

government is a huge data

provider in and of itself where

536

they operate, you know, the U.

537

S.

538

D.

539

O.

540

D.

541

Barnum Defense runs a huge sensor network

called the Space Surveillance Network

542

that for the, for the purposes of us, you

know, an allied nation spaceflight safety

543

collects and distributes a bunch of data.

544

But each one of those comes

with its own challenges.

545

I mean, government, you know,

provided data, um, has it's

546

subject to export controls.

547

A lot of it is classified or at

least the good quality data is

548

classified and kind of difficult

to get your hands on, especially if

549

you don't have a big network, right?

550

If you're a small company,

you're just getting started.

551

Um, it can be really difficult to

kind of get your hands on the, um, the

552

materials, the raw materials needed to

produce these kind of, um, you know, high

553

quality products that you want to sell

to customers that people need, right?

554

I mean, you know, one of the things

Ben was talking about earlier is that

555

barrier to entry for, uh, you know,

spaceflight companies to build spacecraft.

556

And one of those barriers to

entry that Kahan observes is.

557

The ability to fly your spacecraft

safely and be confident that you,

558

you know, you'll see risks coming

up in terms of spaceflight safety.

559

So, you know, we want to reduce the

barrier of entry to this product

560

or to this, um, you know, reduce

the barrier of entry to flying,

561

flying your spacecraft safely.

562

And one of the big challenges that

we observe is access to those, uh,

563

those, you know, tracking information

to actually make those predictions.

564

Yeah, it's

565

Tim Winkler: fascinating.

566

Um, it all seems like it's, it's

also moving very fast right now.

567

There's a lot, uh, that's changed over

the last, you know, 10 plus years here.

568

Let's, let's touch on some of those

things, man, that you've seen, um, you

569

know, some of this transition maybe from.

570

A lot more of these private companies

like SpaceX that are popping up,

571

where has, where has this shift

gone from that you've, you've seen

572

with like the historical role of

the government and space exploration

573

and how it's evolved now, uh, with,

you know, a lot more commercial,

574

um, companies getting involved.

575

Yeah.

576

Ben Reed: Um.

577

In the early days, uh, back, uh, 50,

60 years ago, basically, uh, well,

578

the government was the dominant, uh,

influence and all, uh, space missions.

579

And today it's only dominant in

most, um, uh, they, you know, uh, uh,

580

there's a, there's a famous line in the

Apollo 13 movie where they're asking.

581

The, uh, the manufacturer of the

lunar module, you know, can you

582

do this thing we needed to do?

583

Hey, we weren't signed up to do that.

584

You know, Grumman, Grumman only built

it to land on the surface of the moon.

585

Well, we know that, but

can it do this other thing?

586

So, so Grumman was around and

he'll build the lunar lander.

587

So it's not that contractors

haven't been around for a while.

588

They've been around since the beginning,

but, uh, the big shift is, uh, for

589

the 1st, um, uh, 4 or 5 decades.

590

Um, they basically did what the

government asked them to do and very

591

few some, but but few overall, um, um,

commercial space companies were completely

592

independent of government contracts.

593

Uh, the 1 notable exception would

be communication satellites, um,

594

geosynchronous communication satellites.

595

Um, fast forward to today, the

cost of launch has come down.

596

It's still a crazy high, but it has

come down and that has allowed venture

597

back commercial companies like myself.

598

To move ahead with plans, not in absence

of trying to win government contracts,

599

but not wholly dependent upon and, um, uh,

I guess, because I have 4 kids that were

600

just recently teenagers and 1 still is.

601

Um, I, my metaphor is, uh, in the

beginning, uh, commercial space industry

602

was like a child living with a parent.

603

The parent was the government,

they did some independent things.

604

They would ride their bike to the pool

and come back without the parents, you

605

know, as a 12 year old, but they came

back home at the end of the night.

606

Now, despite commercial space

industry is no longer a teenager.

607

It's now a 20 year old and

it's doing things completely

608

independent of the government.

609

The government is still the single largest

owner operator of satellites in space.

610

Um, and the U.

611

S.

612

government is, um, but, uh, there are some

companies that are moving out to care less

613

what, uh, what the government is doing.

614

So so there is this evolution of of

capabilities, um, and funding to, to,

615

to, to generate those capabilities

that just didn't exist in decades past.

616

Um, and I think the future is bright, you

know, the greatest things happen when,

617

uh, industries, commercial industries

and the government work together, uh, for

618

to do things and, uh, and I think we're

going to see a lot more than the future.

619

Everyone says, wow, this is the

most exciting time in space.

620

Well, every decade.

621

People say that because it's evolving

and it is only growing and growing.

622

So I think our, our brightest, uh, our

golden eras are still in front of us.

623

Uh, not behind us.

624

I'm, I'm very bullish on the, on the

commercial space, um, um, future.

625

Tim Winkler: Yeah, that's exciting.

626

I know that, you know, uh, an easy one

to point out would be, I guess, the,

627

the usage of reusable rockets, um,

kind of decreasing that cost of, of

628

launching, you know, payloads into space.

629

Um, but you've touched on something as

well, Derek, about, um, uh, you know,

630

within like the department of defense,

you know, what, what kind of use cases

631

are you seeing, um, as the most viable

for, you know, URL software and, Um,

632

I guess, how are you prioritizing

like where your, your best product

633

Derek Strobel: market fit is?

634

Yeah, absolutely.

635

Well, you know, going along with

what Ben was saying, um, a lot of

636

the narrative around this topic is

that, you know, the shift from the U.

637

S.

638

government as, as, you know, controlling

the space industry to the commercial,

639

you know, spaceflight operators.

640

And I think while that's an important

conversation, it's definitely.

641

Um, good to keep in mind that as

Ben was saying right on the U.

642

S.

643

government is still a huge, huge, the

biggest player in the space, right?

644

And so we feel that, you know, or

at least I personally feel that,

645

um, the, the key to success in

this world is kind of figuring out

646

how to balance those two, right?

647

If you're trying to sell spaceflight

safety software or any, any software

648

that has to do with, you know, um, this

kind of wild west that we're talking

649

about with, you know, the modern space

industry, um, you, you'll have to

650

interact with both entities, right?

651

With commercial entities.

652

Who are, you know, as, as Ben

was saying, who kind of couldn't

653

couldn't care less how the U.

654

S.

655

government is operating, they're

carrying less and less every year,

656

um, but also acknowledging that the U.

657

S.

658

government is, um, a huge

source of funding for U.

659

S.

660

commercial companies who want to sell,

you know, sell, uh, software products

661

and, um, and then also, you know, not only

that in terms of funding, uh, maybe a less

662

cynical point of view would be, um, the U.

663

S.

664

government and, and, you know, the

entities within it are the origins

665

of some of the, you know, Most of the

foundation that, that commercial space,

666

flight safety, you know, or, or space

flight industry, uh, are built on.

667

Right.

668

All the algorithms and things

like that have their roots.

669

Um, or, you know, many of them do

in research and, you know, missions

670

flown by the US government, NASA.

671

You know, Noah, all of those kinds

of organizations and obviously the

672

DoD, you know, long, long winded way

of getting to your question is, um,

673

I think we, we definitely want to

balance selling our products to both

674

individuals, small operators, you know,

who are commercial, who are not really

675

worried about, um, you know, the.

676

The national security missions or

anything like that flown by the U.

677

S.

678

Government who are just have a small,

easy to understand business model

679

because they need the barrier of entry,

you know, lower to flying their mission

680

safely, but as well acknowledging that

there's a huge opportunity for the U.

681

S.

682

Government as well as a customer for us.

683

And one last thing I want to mention on

that topic too, is that even with the U.

684

S.

685

Government, um, a lot of the

responsibility and the, the, you

686

know, The day-to-day operations of

space flight or even shifting within

687

the US government, not just from it.

688

So a good example of that is the tracks

or traffic coordination system for space

689

program that's, you know, being undertaken

as, as part of this shift from, uh, space

690

flight safety responsibility from the

Department of Defense to the Department

691

of Commerce in the US government.

692

So that's a huge kind of seismic

shift in the, the big players in,

693

uh, a lot of the, one of the, the

kind of big topics in that space.

694

Space traffic management, right?

695

How do you manage all of these

spacecraft kind of all, you

696

know, operating independently.

697

Um, so I just wanted to highlight too,

that the shift is going on, not just.

698

Between the government and

commercial worlds, but within the U.

699

S.

700

Government itself, and that has a big

impact on on how we should operate as

701

commercial entities, and that touches a

702

Mike Gruen: little bit on

what I was going to ask about.

703

So I get and I think then you mentioned

it, the idea that like, okay, commercial

704

is caring less and less about what the

government want, you know, the need there.

705

But I'm sure the government still

cares a lot about the commercial

706

space and making sure that people

are operating safety and securely.

707

I think back to I don't know,

I'm sure that I read some sci fi.

708

Yeah.

709

Thing when I was a kid about how we all

got trapped on the planet because like all

710

these satellites collided and then it was

just chaos, you know, because you couldn't

711

leave, you know, couldn't go to orbit.

712

Well,

713

Ben Reed: I would say the

government cares for 2 reasons.

714

They care for 2 reasons.

715

1, they want less expensive stuff, right?

716

Why?

717

There's a, there's a little phrase that

the Space Force says a lot, uh, buy it

718

if you can and only build it if you must.

719

Right.

720

And so, and, and they care about

tax dollars as much as we do.

721

And so they definitely care greatly

about what commercial companies

722

like a hand and quantum are doing so

they can buy commercial services and

723

not have to build a bespoke system.

724

Uh, themselves.

725

Um, so they care about that.

726

And they also care because the outer

727

guys keep under your pillow at night.

728

I was just reading it

729

Mike Gruen: actually, just as a

730

Ben Reed: refresher.

731

Launching states are responsible for,

you know, launch supervision and then,

732

uh, launch authorization and continual

supervision of every space asset.

733

And so, you know, before you put

anything into space, you have to

734

go to multiple government agencies.

735

To get authorization to

launch and this is true.

736

This is true worldwide.

737

Um, and so the, the government's,

uh, definitely, uh, care what

738

commercial companies are doing

for, for both those reasons.

739

Yeah.

740

It's great

741

Tim Winkler: to hear about the, you

know, the venture capital side of things,

742

um, obviously, you know, needed for the

commercial startup side of, of those,

743

the next wave of companies innovating.

744

Um, it sounds like also, you know, we're,

we're tracking a lot of these, you know,

745

smaller satellites, you know, it's almost

like a miniaturization of Satellites.

746

Being, being launched.

747

So it's, it's creating obviously, you

know, supply and demand thing, right?

748

So the more satellites that are getting

pushed out, there's going to be a demand

749

for many more companies to help them

with like navigating, you know, not

750

colliding with one another and so forth.

751

So, um, uh, love to see, you

know, a little bit more of that

752

increase happening in the space.

753

Um, I did want to, um, you know,

spend some of the remaining time here

754

talking about, you know, a lot of

folks super interested and intrigued

755

on how to tap into, into this industry.

756

Um, you know, so hearing it firsthand

from you all, so Derek, let's start,

757

let's start with you here on this.

758

Um, you know, I, I know that you

mentioned that you had a connection with

759

the founders from a previous past life.

760

But, you know, when you all are

hiring engineers and, and looking

761

for talent, you know, what is it

that you're kind of looking for

762

from a, you know, from a skillset

perspective, what kind of experience

763

do you really kind of prioritize

that you think would flourish in

764

Derek Strobel: this industry?

765

Yeah, absolutely.

766

I think, you know, the biggest thing

I want to encourage folks who are

767

looking to break into kind of the space

software industry, and I, I, you know,

768

I kind of blighted it right there,

is that intersectionality, right?

769

Or, or interdisciplinary

nature of it, right?

770

I mean, uh, you know, as Ben was

saying, everything we do in, in space

771

flight is a difficult problem, but

there actually also difficult for a

772

couple of different reasons that are

related to both software and aerospace

773

engineering kind of in tandem.

774

So what I, you know, I'm always

looking for candidates who.

775

Demonstrate that at least they're

willing to kind of really deeply

776

dig into both of those dual

aspects of the of the job, right?

777

I mean, every problem that we solve when

we're building spaceflight software of any

778

kind is both a very complex engineering

problem in and of itself for software

779

engineers to solve, but also has.

780

A lot of complexity just in the domain

specific, you know, problems that

781

we're solving in aerospace itself.

782

So, so candidates who are either have

experience or even just show a, uh,

783

a willingness to kind of dig into

the problem that they're passionate

784

about, you know, space flight and

space in general, and, you know,

785

understanding those, those deep problems.

786

Um, I think that's the number one thing

that I would communicate, you know, not

787

everyone's going to be able to get an MS

in software and aerospace engineering.

788

That's, you know.

789

What we call a unicorn candidate in

tech, I guess, but you know, we're not

790

looking for those people necessarily

as so much as people who demonstrate

791

a strength, but also an interest in

the other aspect, you know, awesome.

792

Tim Winkler: Yeah, Ben, I'm

going to flip the same question

793

to you over at quantum space.

794

And what is it that you all

really interested in when

795

you're talking to folks?

796

Yeah, I think,

797

Ben Reed: I think Derek hit it.

798

Um, you it's, it's hard to train passion.

799

If you get somebody who's

passionate about what they do.

800

Yeah, that is that is

worth a tremendous amount.

801

Um, uh, in particular, I'll only

speak for my, um, uh, my company.

802

Uh, uh, uh, willingness to be along

the journey, the way finding journey.

803

All right, there are some

companies that build widgets and

804

they've been doing it for years.

805

And when you join that company, you know,

you're going to be building more widgets.

806

Um, uh, that is not yet

the case with our company.

807

We, uh, we have a North star vision

to provide essential services.

808

to entities going into

geo and cislunar space.

809

But the specific path, what

we're going to be working on next

810

month, it might change slightly.

811

And then, you know, it's

called wayfinding, right?

812

You get to the top of the mountain, but

there's a tree right in front of you.

813

Well, you go around the tree.

814

So, for a brief period of

time, you're not going directly

815

towards the top of the mountain.

816

You're going orthogonal to it.

817

So, having an employee or a

candidate when we interview them.

818

That is comfortable with a bit of

wayfinding because they know the

819

North Star vision is worth it.

820

And the reward is going to be, uh,

is going to be there to be part of

821

something greater than themselves to be

part of a new company that's growing.

822

Um, but, you know, willing to to be

along the journey for that wayfinding.

823

Um, those are 2 big aspects that that

we look for when we do our hiring.

824

Mike Gruen: I'm curious, Ben, you touched

on this earlier about the timeline it

825

takes for some of these projects to go.

826

And I think that's probably another

area that's very different between

827

some of the other spaces, right?

828

And like, I worked with a guy, he

was, his first job was at Garvin.

829

Um, and he was like, it took forever,

like every change, like there were 15

830

tests that needed to be updated in months

and months and months of testing before,

831

like, Anything happened and I'm curious,

like, is that still sort of the case?

832

Um, I assume it is.

833

Derek Strobel: Um,

834

Ben Reed: yeah.

835

Yeah, that's a super insight.

836

Um, um, I have a good friends of mine

who, like I mentioned, I worked at Goddard

837

and I, I staged a prop for the video.

838

You see my, my Hubble space

telescope over my shoulder.

839

I worked on the last 3 hubble servicing

missions when I, when I 1st joined NASA.

840

That was what's what I

did the 1st 12 years.

841

I, I worked the 1st, 3 hubble

servicing missions and that was the

842

1st, 10 years 2009 to 1999 to 2009.

843

Um, and I was super lucky in 10 years.

844

I had three missions under my belt.

845

I know people that joined working

James Webb Space Telescope.

846

They worked on that project for 25 years,

and then they had their first launch.

847

Now, there's a lot of

milestones along the way.

848

We passed this test.

849

We passed this milestone.

850

We passed this other milestone.

851

But if you're looking for those really

big payoffs in the space business.

852

You got to find your time sometimes

and look at the look at the wonderful

853

payoff that the web employees

got when that thing got to orbit.

854

So, so I, I can't imagine

their relief when that rocket

855

succeeded and that lift off.

856

Right?

857

Um, and then all the deployments.

858

But is that something

859

Mike Gruen: that you sort of interview,

like, when you're talking to candidates,

860

are you trying to gauge, like, their.

861

Um,

862

Tim Winkler: that's sort of

863

Mike Gruen: ability to deal with

that, I guess, is sort of my

864

Tim Winkler: question.

865

Yeah, that's a good question.

866

I don't know

867

Ben Reed: that it's that it's an interview

question to say, are you comfortable

868

not getting a launch for a year?

869

Um, most people we interview are somewhat

familiar with the aerospace business.

870

You know, um, and so, uh, that is

a, that is a very good insight,

871

but, uh, yeah, that doesn't

really come up in the interview.

872

Maybe that's just implicit when they,

when they, uh, um, uh, applied to

873

work for a space company that the

milestones might be, the big milestones

874

might be, might be years apart.

875

Tim Winkler: Yeah, probably not, you

know, talking to the, the, the B2C,

876

uh, you know, flippers out there.

877

Um, cool.

878

Let's, um, uh, I guess I, I just

have one more question before we,

879

we jump into the final segment.

880

So, you know, uh, just from murals,

you know, research and what you're,

881

you're hearing out there, what, what

are some of, you know, any future

882

trends in this industry that you're, um,

you're keen to, or that you're really.

883

Cued in on, uh, any, any future

trends in the space tech industry

884

that, that you'd like to share

885

Derek Strobel: or you're

getting excited about?

886

I've got one, you know, right off the

top of my head, which is kind of relates

887

to what I was talking about with the,

um, the, uh, tracks program with the U.

888

S.

889

government, the traffic coordination,

coordination system, and really

890

it's about coordination between

satellite operators, right?

891

Um, so space traffic coordination, I

guess, is the, you know, the terminology

892

would use, um, you know, basically

just having kind of establishing the,

893

uh, the precedent that spaceflight

operators are, you know, talking to one

894

another and coordinating for the purpose

of spaceflight safety, I think is.

895

You know, it's a huge industry shift

that's kind of happening right now.

896

And part of those, you know, there's a

lot of commercial companies like ourselves

897

who are very invested in this process,

but also as I mentioned, you know, the

898

U S government is keenly aware of the

problem and putting a lot of resources

899

into developing, you know, systems and

tools and all, you know, all of that

900

stuff to, you know, address the problem.

901

So I think it's, I think it's very

important that we kind of face it head

902

on and really think, you know, not

just how we can solve this problem

903

as it exists today, but, you know,

as you guys were talking about.

904

As in five years and 10 years as the

population of especially Leo in particular

905

grows more and more, um, how can we

establish systems now that are going to

906

be, you know, still reliable and robust

and scalable up to the point when we

907

have many, many more spacecraft and

businesses, individual businesses and

908

entities trying to all operate in this,

you know, shared space environment.

909

Tim Winkler: And maybe just to clarify for

listeners that, that aren't queued in Leo

910

Derek Strobel: means low earth orbit.

911

Yeah.

912

So basically the, the, the closest things

to earth that are above, you know, the

913

common line are considered in space.

914

Yeah.

915

What

916

Ben Reed: just comment on Leo for a

second, because I speak to a lot of

917

school groups, uh, again, pointing

to Hubble over my shoulder, which

918

is about at the same altitude as

the international space station.

919

When Hubble passes overhead here

in Washington, DC, it's closer.

920

Uh, to DC, then driving from

here to New York city, low earth

921

orbit is pretty darn low, right?

922

It is like low, um, it is only

hundreds of miles up and then,

923

you know, you can go way out.

924

The moon is quarter of a million

miles and things start really

925

getting far away after that.

926

Yeah.

927

Leo is pretty, pretty low.

928

Tim Winkler: That's fascinating.

929

And then you all are also doing

a lot of work between, you know,

930

the earth and moon and the moon.

931

Is that right?

932

Okay.

933

Ben Reed: Um, so the trends, sorry.

934

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

935

Yeah.

936

So trends that you're, that you're

excited about or you're picking up on.

937

Ben Reed: Yeah, um, so, uh,

mobility, mobility is, um, is

938

desired for for a lot of folks.

939

So, um, Kepler is, you know,

1st discovered the motions of

940

the planets by Keplerian motion.

941

Um, and what's, uh, the magic of

a Keplerian motion is it takes

942

no energy to stay in it, right?

943

Once you get trapped in it, once you are

in the Keplerian orbit, takes no energy.

944

The flip side of that is if you

want to do anything but stay in that

945

orbit, you need to spend energy.

946

You need to expend propellant out of the

back end and make yourself go forward.

947

Right?

948

Equal and opposite.

949

Um, so for the first 60 years, 99

percent of every satellite gets

950

into a Keplerian orbit and just

stays there for its entire life.

951

And then it gets retired or

turns into a piece of debris.

952

Um, but people are looking for

are envisioning missions where

953

they want to have mobility.

954

They want to move.

955

They want to change orbits

and a propellant tank on a

956

spacecraft sometimes really big.

957

It's a huge percent.

958

Um, I think a geo spacecraft, a

geosynchronous orbit spacecraft.

959

Half of the launch mass, half of

the weight of that thing sitting

960

on the launch pad is fuel, and that

goes into a Keplerian orbit and

961

stays there the rest of its life.

962

And so you can imagine if you wanted

to have the flexibility to move your

963

satellite around for, to collect more

science, to do more exploration, or to

964

figure out what the bad guys are up to.

965

Um, that requires fuel, that requires

propellant, and so there's a big trend

966

in the industry, a big macro trend.

967

Where people lots of, uh, government

agencies, but I used to do when I

968

was with NASA before I left, um, was

work on robotic refueling the ability

969

to refill the satellite to give it

more life to give it more mobility.

970

It gives generals and scientists

and astronauts alike the ability

971

to do more things in space.

972

Um, and, uh, it is not commonplace today.

973

Only one thing is routinely refueled, and

that's the International Space Station.

974

Everything else, it's, it's

a crazy one off, or it never,

975

never gets refueled at all.

976

99.

977

99999 percent of all satellites

will die with the single load of

978

fuel they had when they launched.

979

Um, but ask me again in 5 years and again

in 10 years, and that percent is going

980

to start to swing the other direction.

981

Derek Strobel: Yeah, absolutely.

982

If I could chime in on that

mobility topic too, because I

983

think it's also really important.

984

Um, two things.

985

So there's one, uh, I think

it's a huge industry trend.

986

There's a lot of commercial companies

also working on this problem.

987

Uh, shout out to orbit fab,

who's a friend of chaos space.

988

Um, so it's, it's definitely an

active field that's being developed.

989

And also, I also want to tie

it back to spaceflight safety.

990

You know, Ben mentioned a lot of

mission specific, uh, you know,

991

use cases for having, you know,

propellant on the spacecraft to expend.

992

Um, you know, collecting more

science or whatever it may be.

993

But another huge use case for mobility

on spacecraft is for avoiding, you know,

994

mitigating the risk of conjunction.

995

Right?

996

Um, that's something that

we deal with all the time.

997

We have a lot of, you know, ran into

a lot of cases where operators have a

998

spacecraft there that we can predict

the conjunction, but they can't mitigate

999

the risk of that conjunction because

the spacecraft isn't maneuverable.

00:49:04,035 --> 00:49:08,565

So that's another huge, huge trend in the

industry that I think we should really

00:49:08,575 --> 00:49:12,865

try and pursue is having more spacecraft

be maneuverable, um, not only for their

00:49:12,865 --> 00:49:16,115

own benefit for science, but also for

mitigating the risk of conjunctions.

00:49:17,014 --> 00:49:18,725

I like to use conjunctions of collision.

00:49:18,985 --> 00:49:21,760

Tim Winkler: We like

to keep it theoretical

00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,534

Derek Strobel: when we're talking

about satellites colliding.

00:49:24,915 --> 00:49:26,085

We keep it theoretical space.

00:49:27,395 --> 00:49:29,415

Ben Reed: Think about that next

time you're on the DC Beltway.

00:49:30,095 --> 00:49:30,255

Yeah.

00:49:31,504 --> 00:49:32,875

Derek Strobel: It's a

conjunction officer, I promise.

00:49:35,770 --> 00:49:36,410

Tim Winkler: Well said.

00:49:36,890 --> 00:49:37,120

All right.

00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,640

Well, let's, uh, let's close out here

with, uh, with our final segment.

00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:44,239

Um, so we're going to transition

to, uh, a segment that we

00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:45,660

call the five second scramble.

00:49:45,989 --> 00:49:49,230

Uh, so this is where we're

going to do a rapid fire Q and

00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:50,620

a with, with both of our guests.

00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:54,349

Um, some business, some personal, I'll

try to answer within five seconds.

00:49:54,349 --> 00:49:57,489

If you can goes over, we won't air

horn you and anything like that.

00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,595

So Let's start with you, Ben.

00:49:59,675 --> 00:50:01,415

Um, are you ready?

00:50:03,275 --> 00:50:03,625

All right.

00:50:03,725 --> 00:50:07,625

Um, what is your favorite part

of the culture at quantum space?

00:50:08,935 --> 00:50:11,715

Ben Reed: Uh, camaraderie

working together as a team.

00:50:12,455 --> 00:50:12,685

Tim Winkler: Nice.

00:50:12,985 --> 00:50:16,634

What kind of technologist

thrives at quantum space?

00:50:17,955 --> 00:50:18,505

Uh,

00:50:18,515 --> 00:50:21,105

Ben Reed: willingness to tackle

new things, even if it's not what

00:50:21,175 --> 00:50:23,285

they're, they were trained or

brought into the company to do.

00:50:24,615 --> 00:50:25,805

What traits do you

00:50:25,805 --> 00:50:28,155

Tim Winkler: value most

in your co founders?

00:50:29,660 --> 00:50:32,550

Ben Reed: Um, I would say

their ethics and their passion.

00:50:34,410 --> 00:50:36,830

Tim Winkler: What can our

listeners be excited about with

00:50:36,850 --> 00:50:39,660

00:50:40,850 --> 00:50:45,089

Ben Reed: Uh, getting our spacecraft

in orbit and providing, uh, uh, all the

00:50:45,089 --> 00:50:46,909

services I mentioned earlier to them.

00:50:47,700 --> 00:50:47,940

Tim Winkler: Nice.

00:50:48,770 --> 00:50:53,770

Uh, what aspects of your culture do

you most fear losing with growth?

00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:56,160

Hmm.

00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:57,550

Ben Reed: That's a great question.

00:50:57,620 --> 00:50:58,650

Fear of losing its growth.

00:50:58,890 --> 00:51:02,199

Um, uh, I guess a sense of

camaraderie go back to that, right?

00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,570

It's harder in larger companies

to know everyone by name and

00:51:05,570 --> 00:51:07,049

all the details of their lives.

00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:10,760

Um, so that, that's something that

I'd be ashamed to see go away.

00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:11,340

Okay.

00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,840

Tim Winkler: Describe your ideal breakfast

00:51:13,870 --> 00:51:14,250

Ben Reed: meal.

00:51:15,330 --> 00:51:16,890

Oh, I'm a big breakfast guy.

00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:22,060

Normally it's just cold cereal, but

I'm down for, you know, two runny

00:51:22,060 --> 00:51:25,490

eggs, sausage, toast, a cup of coffee.

00:51:26,010 --> 00:51:27,489

Tim Winkler: Just describe the Grand Slam.

00:51:27,890 --> 00:51:29,050

There you go.

00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:30,790

Exactly.

00:51:31,579 --> 00:51:35,760

What's something that you are

good at, but you hate doing?

00:51:37,410 --> 00:51:37,950

Uh,

00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,760

Ben Reed: good at, but I hate doing.

00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:40,500

Um...

00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:45,740

Well, I'm not going to say picking

up after my dogs, uh, let's

00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:50,250

see, um, uh, I would say, uh, I

guess maybe writing proposals.

00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:55,899

I'm a pretty good writer, but, uh, I don't

say that, uh, I relish it before I begin.

00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:55,920

I

00:51:56,900 --> 00:52:00,530

Tim Winkler: think many would agree with

you, uh, in the proposal writing space.

00:52:01,590 --> 00:52:08,820

What, um, uh, in a fictional world from a

book or movie, which one would you choose?

00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:09,070

Let

00:52:10,515 --> 00:52:11,655

Ben Reed: Uh, let's see.

00:52:11,655 --> 00:52:13,215

Uh, I guess Star Wars.

00:52:14,835 --> 00:52:15,115

Yeah.

00:52:15,135 --> 00:52:17,215

Love Star Wars fans right on

00:52:17,225 --> 00:52:18,285

Tim Winkler: theme here as well.

00:52:19,205 --> 00:52:22,765

Um, what is the worst fashion

trend that you ever followed?

00:52:23,924 --> 00:52:24,455

The worst

00:52:24,455 --> 00:52:24,865

Ben Reed: fashion?

00:52:24,884 --> 00:52:29,945

Well, I have no hair and now, but,

uh, As a kid, my hair is very wavy,

00:52:29,945 --> 00:52:31,545

but all my friends had long hair.

00:52:31,585 --> 00:52:36,165

So I tried to follow them and I

look like Bozo the clown straight

00:52:36,215 --> 00:52:40,595

out instead of down, but I, I kept

it for a long time and I should

00:52:40,595 --> 00:52:42,135

have seen the writing on the wall.

00:52:42,725 --> 00:52:47,254

Tim Winkler: So it's those pictures

in the show notes, uh, the fact,

00:52:47,255 --> 00:52:50,495

what was your dream job as a kid?

00:52:51,565 --> 00:52:55,345

Ben Reed: I worked four years on

a university grounds crew cutting

00:52:55,345 --> 00:52:59,005

grass, and it doesn't seem like

a lot of fun to be in the hot sun

00:52:59,005 --> 00:53:00,505

in North Carolina cutting grass.

00:53:00,505 --> 00:53:05,815

But I I, I had a great group of guys

that I worked with and you're outdoors

00:53:05,815 --> 00:53:10,105

every day cutting down a tree or, or

doing something, you know, like that.

00:53:10,110 --> 00:53:11,455

And that was, that was a lot of fun.

00:53:12,035 --> 00:53:12,515

That's great.

00:53:14,145 --> 00:53:16,895

Tim Winkler: Um, uh,

last, last question here.

00:53:16,895 --> 00:53:20,555

A hypothetical, if you were traveling

to Mars for a, you know, nice little,

00:53:20,625 --> 00:53:25,535

little vacation, what are three

possessions from, from home that

00:53:25,535 --> 00:53:26,895

you would have to take with you?

00:53:29,125 --> 00:53:31,585

Ben Reed: Three possessions from

the home that I got to take with

00:53:31,585 --> 00:53:37,365

me, uh, uh, let's see, I guess my

star Wars collection of movies.

00:53:37,945 --> 00:53:39,475

Um, I'm a chili head.

00:53:39,475 --> 00:53:42,525

I love crazy hot, uh, salsa and hot sauce.

00:53:42,535 --> 00:53:46,050

So I got to bring a bottle of,

uh, That's something too hot, you

00:53:46,050 --> 00:53:47,760

know, other than a drop at a time.

00:53:48,380 --> 00:53:50,350

Um, and I got to have

chips to go with that.

00:53:50,370 --> 00:53:50,570

Right.

00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,470

You got to have the

chips and salsa together.

00:53:52,530 --> 00:53:53,430

So that's what I'll go with.

00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:57,650

Yeah.

00:53:58,210 --> 00:53:58,390

Yeah.

00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:58,809

Movies,

00:53:58,809 --> 00:53:59,660

Tim Winkler: chips, and salsa.

00:53:59,660 --> 00:54:01,250

I mean, I'm in let's go tomorrow.

00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:03,530

That's great.

00:54:04,310 --> 00:54:06,730

I've actually been following,

um, a little bit of a trend.

00:54:06,730 --> 00:54:11,989

It was from a pairing, uh, on the show,

um, which is chips and hot sauce, just

00:54:11,989 --> 00:54:15,200

like dabbling a little hot sauce on

the chips versus traditional salsa.

00:54:15,740 --> 00:54:17,979

Um, I think they're using

like Tapatio or something.

00:54:17,979 --> 00:54:22,129

Not too, not too intense, but it sounds

like you're, you've got a, a serious heat

00:54:22,129 --> 00:54:23,529

factor that you're working with then.

00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:23,939

Yeah.

00:54:23,949 --> 00:54:24,219

My

00:54:24,219 --> 00:54:28,450

Ben Reed: nephews, uh, cajoled me into

doing that with, uh, Satan's blood.

00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:33,130

So me and all my, my two boys

and all my nephews, we all

00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:34,610

did Satan's blood on a chip.

00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,990

And that was, uh, that was pretty painful.

00:54:38,229 --> 00:54:38,459

Just

00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:39,920

Tim Winkler: fried your, your taste buds.

00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:40,570

Yeah.

00:54:42,420 --> 00:54:43,340

All right, good stuff.

00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:44,519

That's a, that's a wrap for you.

00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:45,609

You're, you're all set.

00:54:45,659 --> 00:54:47,320

Um, let's jump over to you, Derek.

00:54:47,329 --> 00:54:47,720

You ready?

00:54:48,090 --> 00:54:48,590

I'm ready.

00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:49,580

All right.

00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:53,830

Um, explain Cajon space to

me as if I were a five year

00:54:53,830 --> 00:54:54,050

Derek Strobel: old.

00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:56,190

Uh, don't crash your satellite.

00:54:56,229 --> 00:54:57,180

Do it this way instead.

00:54:58,919 --> 00:55:00,520

Tim Winkler: How would

you describe your culture?

00:55:01,690 --> 00:55:02,910

Derek Strobel: Um, close knit.

00:55:02,930 --> 00:55:04,360

I would say we're all really good friends.

00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:05,890

Tim Winkler: Excellent.

00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:08,400

What kind of technologist

thrives at Kahan space?

00:55:09,830 --> 00:55:15,040

Derek Strobel: I would say someone

who is opinionated, but rational and

00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,520

willing to accept when we've come

to the final, you know, uh, product

00:55:19,570 --> 00:55:20,710

that, that everyone agrees on.

00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:24,310

Tim Winkler: What can folks

be most excited about for

00:55:24,330 --> 00:55:27,090

00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:27,630

Derek Strobel: beyond?

00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,170

Yeah, new features for sure.

00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:33,440

Um, definitely, uh,

collaborations as well.

00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:35,950

Excellent.

00:55:36,009 --> 00:55:36,579

Um,

00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:39,610

Tim Winkler: what, uh, if you

could have any superpower,

00:55:39,610 --> 00:55:41,120

what, what would it be and why?

00:55:42,100 --> 00:55:43,569

Derek Strobel: Ooh, superpower.

00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:44,100

Yeah.

00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,800

Um, maybe, maybe green thumb

superpower to go with my gardening.

00:55:51,075 --> 00:55:51,685

Tim Winkler: There you go.

00:55:52,225 --> 00:55:54,975

What, um, we're going to keep

with the Mars theme here.

00:55:54,975 --> 00:55:59,765

So if you were, um, if you're

going to establish the first fast

00:55:59,765 --> 00:56:03,454

food restaurant on Mars, what,

what, uh, what are you picking?

00:56:04,475 --> 00:56:07,434

Derek Strobel: Ooh, well, I'm a, I'm

a vegetarian, so I'm not going burger.

00:56:07,484 --> 00:56:09,945

Maybe we'll go with some onion rings.

00:56:11,085 --> 00:56:11,575

Yeah.

00:56:11,725 --> 00:56:13,295

Mars, Martian onion rings.

00:56:13,295 --> 00:56:14,334

Tim Winkler: Nice.

00:56:14,615 --> 00:56:16,305

Okay, I could get behind that.

00:56:17,395 --> 00:56:22,395

What, um, what's something that you

like to do, but you're not very good at?

00:56:23,775 --> 00:56:26,534

Derek Strobel: Ooh, good question.

00:56:26,585 --> 00:56:27,005

Let's see.

00:56:27,005 --> 00:56:29,005

Something I like to do,

but I'm not very good at.

00:56:29,444 --> 00:56:33,525

Uh, maybe, maybe running.

00:56:34,595 --> 00:56:38,605

Yeah, just like, just like exercising in

general is really what I was going for.

00:56:38,995 --> 00:56:42,895

Always feels good after I'm doing it,

but boy, am I sad while I'm doing it.

00:56:43,395 --> 00:56:43,605

Ben Reed: Yeah,

00:56:43,855 --> 00:56:46,055

Tim Winkler: that's,

that's, uh, agree on that.

00:56:46,845 --> 00:56:51,485

Um, what's a charity or a corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

00:56:52,384 --> 00:56:53,244

Derek Strobel: Ooh, yeah.

00:56:53,295 --> 00:56:57,365

Um, well, in my local area, we have the

McKenzie river trust, which is basically

00:56:57,365 --> 00:57:00,955

for maintaining the wild area around the

McKenzie river in Oregon, which is, uh,

00:57:01,125 --> 00:57:02,214

I'm definitely very passionate about.

00:57:03,070 --> 00:57:03,490

Awesome.

00:57:04,250 --> 00:57:06,830

Tim Winkler: What's something

that you're very afraid of

00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:08,340

Derek Strobel: dying?

00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:10,920

Yeah.

00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,220

Just mortality in general,

00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:15,129

Tim Winkler: for any reason, might be

the number one answer on the board.

00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,780

Derek Strobel: I bet you haven't

gotten that one before, though.

00:57:19,170 --> 00:57:19,310

Keep

00:57:19,310 --> 00:57:20,610

Tim Winkler: it simple.

00:57:20,620 --> 00:57:24,760

Who is the, um, Who is

your greatest superhero?

00:57:25,300 --> 00:57:26,000

Derek Strobel: Of all time?

00:57:26,090 --> 00:57:27,279

It's gotta be Spider Man.

00:57:27,330 --> 00:57:28,530

Yeah, I'm a big Spider Man fan.

00:57:28,530 --> 00:57:31,620

I just watched the new animated,

uh, Into the Spider Verse,

00:57:31,620 --> 00:57:32,839

or Across the Spider Verse.

00:57:32,860 --> 00:57:33,560

Excellent movie.

00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:34,439

It's good.

00:57:35,590 --> 00:57:38,959

Tim Winkler: Yeah, we get Batman,

Spider Man, top two answers there.

00:57:38,959 --> 00:57:41,019

So, um, that's it.

00:57:41,029 --> 00:57:41,739

That's a wrap.

00:57:41,749 --> 00:57:43,369