EdTech go-to-market plans tend to get written as if there's one playbook that works everywhere. But anyone selling into more than one state learns quickly that isn't true. A message that lands in one state can fall flat two counties over, and a funding mechanism that unlocks budget in one place might not exist somewhere else. In K-12, treating all fifty states like fifty different countries isn't an exaggeration. It's closer to how procurement, funding cycles, and decision-making work.

Bryan McCorkle, SVP of Revenue at NovoDia, an AI curriculum infrastructure company for K-12, has built his career inside that reality. Across stops at Amira Learning, PowerSchool, and ClickSoftware, he's learned to read a market before he ever pitches it: what problem a district is actually living with, what data proves the demand is real, and what it takes to turn a signed contract into a product teachers and students use.

In this conversation, Bryan walks through the four questions he says every company has to answer before it can talk about go-to-market, how he verifies real demand using legislative calendars and district heat maps, and why he's banned himself from ever saying "circling back."

What You'll Learn

• Why Bryan treats all fifty states like fifty different countries, and why chasing the biggest state first is usually the wrong move for an early-stage company
• The four questions Bryan says every company must answer before it can talk about go-to-market, and how he verifies real demand with heat maps, state board meetings, and legislative activity before ever pitching a district
• Why closing a deal isn't the same as getting a product used, what it takes to turn a hesitant champion into an active user base, and where outcomes-based contracts tend to break down

Why It Matters

Budgets are tighter, audits are more common, and districts are taking a harder look at whether the tools they're paying for are being used. For EdTech marketers and sales leaders, that means a repeatable go-to-market plan matters as much as a good product. Knowing exactly what problem you solve, being honest about what you don't solve, and picking a market you can win and repeat are what separate a deal that closes from a product that gets used. The idea that all fifty states behave like fifty different countries is a reminder that a one-size-fits-all plan rarely survives contact with a real district budget cycle.

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

• Center for Outcomes Based Contracting
• The nonprofit, part of the Southern Education Foundation, that Bryan references when discussing what makes a district ready for an outcomes-based contract.
• New Report: Exploring Outcomes-Based Contracting for EdTech
• A Digital Promise report on how outcomes-based contracts are playing out across the EdTech industry.
• Current Realities of EdTech Use
• A research brief with data on EdTech usage rates referenced in the episode.
• Amira Learning's Outcomes-Based Contract Case Study
• A video example of an outcomes-based contract in action, from Bryan's time at Amira Learning.
• Starbridge For Tracking State-By-State Activity
• The tool Bryan now uses to track house and senate bill activity, board meeting mentions, and district heat maps in one place. He previously used GovSpend and BoardDocs for the same purpose, and says both still work well for source-level data.
• K-12 EdTech Sales Requires More Than Demos
• All Things Marketing and Education earlier episode with Shelby Jones, referenced by Elana when discussing long sales cycles and the challenge of satisfying every stakeholder in a district.
• Follow Bryan McCorkle: LinkedIn | X

Elana Leoni

Welcome to All Things Marketing and Education. I'm your host, Elana Leoni, and I have had the honor of working alongside education and ed tech brands for almost two decades. As a marketer, I've built lasting connections with educators, innovators, and leaders who are all shaping the future of learning. And I don't say that lightly. On this podcast, I bring those voices forward so you can learn from their experiences, shift your perspective, and put those things into action.

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of All Things Marketing and Education. Today, I am speaking with Brian, , Brian McCorkle to be exact. Brian is the SVP of revenue at Novidea, but he has been in all sorts of industries, SaaS, telecom, a lot in K-12 ed tech with some of the biggest brands. And I had a call with him, and I felt selfish for not recording that call with him and said immediately 10 minutes into that conversation that, “You need to be on the podcast.”

And we’ve had a good amount of salespeople on our podcast, but he demonstrated such a depth of knowledge that I pretty much knew that when we got into this conversation, we were gonna ebb and flow into so many timely things on the marketing side, sales side, customer success. You name it, we get into it.

And that seems like common sense, right? But we just closed a deal. We need to then go close another deal, and then marketing needs to get more, you know, MQLs and SQLs and, like, the, the cycle continues. But I love this pausing to say, “You know what? If active usage doesn’t happen, then we cannot close that deal again and renew it when the time comes, because why are we paying for something that people aren’t using?”

And I can tell that he’s been at it for a long time because he had four really succinct questions that if you couldn’t answer it, he didn’t even wanna talk to you about a go-to-market state by state. You were, you weren’t ready, and I just loved it. It gives me goosebumps talking about it. All right. he is such a fun guest, and at the end, I kind of threw him a, a really random question in my lightning round, and I asked him what TV show represents what the school year will be in the 2026, 2027 academic school year, and what, what is that TV show that would represent that?

Enjoy

Elana Leoni: Welcome, Brian, to the show. I am so excited to have you on. We were just talking behind the scenes and I said our last conversation could’ve been our podcast ’cause it was so good. So I’m just really excited to have you on the show

Bryan McCorkle: I’m really happy to be here. Thank you. A little nervous, but really excited too, so let’s have some

Elana Leoni: it, you shouldn’t be nervous because man, I swear I learned so much from you in that one little conversation, and I’m not just like complimenting you for the sake of it. And where you sit right now in the intersection of sales and marketing and the wor- and the craziness of K-12 is gonna be so helpful for our audience.

Bryan McCorkle: I think for me, I call it industry, right? So, every other industry, it’s pretty simple, right? When you’re having a conversation, you’re trying to help someone make money, save money, or it’s a CYA. Done. You know, someone at the top signs off, and you’re moving. K-twelve, though, it’s all of that plus student outcomes, teacher outcomes, and district outcomes, right?

And here’s the kicker. The, the person signing the check is almost never the person who– whose life actually changes when the tool goes live, right? Like superintendents are thinking board optics and budget cycles. Curriculum directors are thinking, you know, how do we get teachers to buy in? Principals are thinking about whether it’s just another thing on their staff’s already overloaded plate.

I, I think that honesty is what really builds trust and, and closes projects when you’re working with the district.

Elana Leoni: Yeah, and you’re never– There’s so many people in the ecosystem that you’re talking to to close a deal. L- like for me, I’m like, the people pleaser in me is like, “Oh, I’ve got to satisfy their needs and their needs and their needs.” And one, you’re not physically able to ’cause no product can do that. But two, you have to be really clear on prioritization.

Like n- and everyone matters in K-12, don’t get me wrong, but there are people that, that have more influence than others when purchasing.

Elana Leoni: Interesting, because I was reading a report, it’s maybe six months old, but Kosan or some- no, it wasn’t Kosan, but it was somebody saying that CTOs have less buying power now recently, and, and you’re seeing the opposite

Bryan McCorkle: I, I’m seeing that they’re in, they’re in my conversations earlier and more often than ever before.

Elana Leoni: Hmm.

Bryan McCorkle: Right. I, I– Funny enough, two weeks ago, I had a conversation with, an amazing director of tech i-in the Chicagoland area, and he says, like, he has to be– It’s mandated. He needs to be in every conversation because he designs what pilots look like.

He designed what adoption looks like. He doesn’t want companies taking his, his information and then leveraging it for them to buy it for the entire network ’cause it makes business sense. And so that’s, that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m hearing now early and often.

Or whatnot.

Bryan McCorkle: No, I, I, I, I tell you it was the second Monday in February of this year. I had back-to-back calls, two different technology leads. One was a CTO, another one was a director of technology. One thought he could build the product I was positioning, and we had like a nice little bake-off, and the other one just wanted a spec sheet.

So same state, probably about 100 miles away, completely different personalities.

So there is this like build your own vibe going, which is interesting too.

Bryan McCorkle: well, the, the, the crazy thing is if you look at it, the last, I would say, 20 years, educators have been trying to build it their- themselves. But, you know, they’re doing patchwork or they’re piecemealing it based on what they find on the internet. Now, with, you know, agents and agentic ability, they can actually swarm based on the information that they have and create something that is personalized for them.

So kudos to them if they have the time, but I think they need to remember they have a full-time job also.

Elana Leoni: Yeah, and high turnover, right?

Bryan McCorkle: Very, yep, very

Elana Leoni: that’s a big thing. All right. So you touched on one of these things of like, one of the biggest things is you didn’t talk about long sales cycles, but there are long sales cycles. It’s just how many people are in the mix and who you need to talk to and, and you can’t satisfy the needs of everything, and be honest.

Bryan McCorkle: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. I, I feel as though, like maybe not so much today, right this second, because budgets are tighter than they ever been. I think, I think we’re seeing either reallocations or, or budgets going away. But i- if you look right now, just because someone has it, and there’s multiple audits going on right now, I think it’s making national news, districts are just auditing what they have.

And a-a-again, like I, I was working with a director of C&I amazing person, unders- understood exactly what we were positioning, saw the value, understood exactly, what the growth was going to be, and it was amazing. Like, we were like, “All right, this is fantastic. We c- we’re moving through.” She championed the purchase.

She, she signed the contract. She brought it in. She was the hero internally. So on paper, you got a champion, right? Deal’s done, implementation starts, let’s go. Except she spent a majority of the school year finding reasons why her teachers and team couldn’t use it. Too busy, wrong time of year. We’ll circle back after, you know, testing.

And so with a new tool, it felt like one more thing on an already impossible plate. And so being human, right, I, I, I think we needed to figure out a way that, one, we can actually work with them, but two How do we work with the full team, not just the one person? And so, I, I, I think when you look at what broke it open, it wasn’t more training.

It, it wasn’t more on-site visits ’cause no one likes vendors showing up to the district unless you bring, you know, baked goods. It wasn’t another slide deck about features, but going directly to the teachers, right? I stopped trying to, to move the director, and our team really started investing in the peoples who lives the tool was actually supposed to change.

Now we’re talking about growth, right? Recognizing teachers who’s actually using it, with growth, and then group emails where everyone who’s using it, we’re showing real growth data to the whole school, teachers, principals, everyone. That public recognition of what’s actually working, what’s actually moving the needle.

But honestly, by the time we hit the third step, right, the director had pom-poms , wasn’t really gatekeeping anymore. It was like, “Look what we did together,” right? Like giving the credit to us, but it was her choice. And honestly, good, like she deserves it because the, the tool and how it was delivered and how it was being used, teachers and students were winning.

They were getting what they were supposed to get from day one, and a-again, like I didn’t convince the director to let her teachers u-use it. Our team really helped make her teachers want to use it, and they convinced the director that this is what we need, this is what we need to continue to have. I, I don’t wanna say that’s the whole game, but that’s by design.

Service and work with those who are actually using the solution

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah

Elana Leoni: but it’s true, ’cause at some point they try to just cover their own and say, “Well, here are all the reasons why we can’t deploy,” and make it not look bad upon themselves as well.

But you kind of had me in that whole like scaffolding of, of using, you had me at coffee. I’m like, “Ooh, they give coffee. Ooh.” And then professional development and certificates. Like, and for those of you who are like, “Oh, you guys, Brian’s a sales dude. Ilana, you’re a marketing girl. Like, why are you guys talking about customer success and implementation?”

So

Bryan McCorkle: and, and when you look at any life cycle, if you’re not breaking it into the, the tripod of success, like you’re missing, right? So yeah, you have business development, but you also have customer success and product. Those three things need to work in tandem, right? And if they’re not working in tandem, you’re gonna have a bottleneck somewhere that breaks the entire cycle.

No one wins

Elana Leoni: Preach. I was like

Bryan McCorkle: I’ll get o- I’ll get off my

Elana Leoni: nod. No. but like how do you get started to even make that happen, right? ’Cause, you know, a lot of times we have our lanes and mark- if you, if you have a great team, marketing and sales are collaborating. Maybe you’re collaborating with product and customer success, but how do you even get it started to like, you know, is this a leadership imperative?

They realize that gap is missing or like, it feels like, “Whoa, I got a pipeline. I can’t deal with that too.”

You need to make sure that you have your team early and often, and it’s not a single person doing a heroic effort. That’s never it

Elana Leoni: Yeah. And as you were talking, my wheels were spinning around. There’s so many things you can do in product as well to incentivize, gamify, like just celebrating their first login, celebrating their fifth login showing little scavenger hunts on how they can become active users onboarding, all of that.

Bryan McCorkle: Yep.

Elana Leoni: that is the thing, right?

And, you know, for those of you saying, “She got the stat wrong,” I will correct myself and, and put it, and put it in the show notes. It’s depressing, is what it is. So, and I mean, there’s so much going on in the world, right? We’ve got LAUSD kind of imploding, and we’ve got, you know, New York with their budgets and, and stuff.

And some of it’s like, ooh, even if they don’t need to tighten, which they do, they might be tightening even more so. I don’t wanna be like them, right?

Bryan McCorkle: It’s– And, and the thing is it, it all… It’s like a pyramid. Everything kind of rolls downhill, you know? And so what you don’t wanna do is you don’t wanna leave anyone in a silo. But what you do wanna do is if you’re working in tandem, everyone’s lives are getting easier. I’ll use your example, right?

But if you work in a silo, it won’t work

Elana Leoni: Yeah. Like I can imagine you kind of, when talking to you, I’m like, “Ooh, maybe I wanna get in sales one someday,” right? Because they might come to you and say like, “How are you different from so and so? And what if I just build it myself?” Like, you’ve gotta know all of that stuff and

Bryan McCorkle: And I think, I think before you know that stuff, I, I think for any sales team, really, you gotta, you gotta really ask yourself a question. And it’s not just sales, it’s everyone, right? And you have to have a unified response. So when you look at it, it’s like from your organization, what problem do you solve?

How do you specifically solve that problem? How do you do it better than what’s out there? What’s your proof? If you can answer all four cleanly, right, then you have something that really works. And if you can’t, we’re talking about PMF and training and understanding because what you’re selling is not jiving with what they’re delivering

Bryan McCorkle: Absolutely.

Elana Leoni: and you tell them that

Bryan McCorkle: I, yeah, and then honestly, it’s– I’d rather not waste their time, right? Like when I look at it, I, I’ve been, I’ve been doing this work a lot. I, I don’t call myself sales. I know everyone says, “Oh, Brian, the sales guy.” I think of myself as more of a consultant and a friend, right? Like a good friend is not gonna waste your time.

A good friend is not gonna call you about something that you don’t need or want, right? It doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t– If it doesn’t make sense, it won’t make dollars, so why do it? And so with what we’re doing here, I– you, you need to know if this is something, if this is a, a project or initiative that they would even care about, and you need to do your research first, and then when you reach out, you explain very simply how this can work.

That’s it.

Elana Leoni: Yes. Yes. And I find that when you do that, you build that trust even more and you open up a very, like, rewarding long-term relationship

That’s nice

Elana Leoni: Yeah. And y- you– at that same time, you’re like, “Hey, we might not be a fit, but this, this, this product might be a fit. How can I help you?”

Bryan McCorkle: Oh, yeah

Elana Leoni: and I love that about our industry in particular, and I, I knew that you did that, so I wanted to poke in on that just so… Because, you know, quotas are real, pipeline’s real, but when you feel like you have to close a deal for a deal’s sake, you– and you might close that deal, you’re n- definitely not gonna renew that deal.

So

But it, it’s one of those things where they, they… everyone chats with everyone. It’s, you go to these conferences and the, the– everyone’s Nicolas Cage. At– There’s like, you know, two degrees of separation at most. So,

Elana Leoni: I never heard the Nicolas Cage one. Everyone always says Kevin Bacon, but like Nicolas Cage, I get it.

Bryan McCorkle: Mm-hmm.

Elana Leoni: All right. You talked about it, so we’re going there. State, the 50 United States, the 50 countries. For those of you that are coming into ed tech, you might realize, whoa, that’s hard because it’s not just selling and there’s one place how you can get to federal funding, and here’s how all the states act the same.

It is completely different. And especially when I work with companies that are international trying to get into the United States, I don’t realize how hard it is and how different it is until I have to explain it to people that are trying to

Bryan McCorkle: Right

Elana Leoni: come in. So, I mean, h- how do we get started here? But like, I mean, the, the hardest thing is the go-to-market of like, h- what s- like what states do I prioritize?

Bryan McCorkle: well first, I, I, I think you start with the product, not the map, right? And we, we talk about those essential questions that we just talked about, right? That’s– honestly, before we talk about states, just knowing if they can answer those questions, right? A-and then if they can, right, then, you know, they don’t have that issue of product market fit.

But it’s really around, I would say where we wanna take their story, right? That, that, that first filter is based on those answers, right? W-where’s the project or where are the priorities that you solve, right? Where is the problem the loudest right now? Then you verify with heat maps, state board meetings, regional meetings, House and Senate bills, right?

Then you have to kinda pepper in ICP fit, right? Who’s your ideal customer profile, right? Does it, does it work, and is it scalable, right? And some, some products it’s not scalable, and that’s, that’s fine, right? But you need to know that. And then I, I think again, before we get into the, the type of states, right?

Does this state’s, you know, district structure actually let me build pipeline efficiently or are you just winning one-offs? Is it a process, not a gut call? Like, all of those things need to be answered beforehand. I’ve had many of conversations, probably just like you, where CEOs are coming in and they’re like, “We want this big name district who’s the one of the three biggest districts in the country and the planet.”

So for an early-stage company, like I always kinda say the same thing. Start out where you can win right? Where can you win? Where can you repeat? Not where the prize looks the biggest, right? It, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a replicable win in a, in a smaller state can build your proof of concept faster, right? And it’s, it’s, it’s better than a long, expensive chase in like a Texas or a California.

Win small, win fast, and scale

But sometimes they say, “Well, we’re not ready for those. We can’t even scale internally, to do even one big district.” And then once you get that one big district, all of a sudden your revenue is 70% that district, and that’s scary. So like you better scale up quickly so you don’t fall fast if they don’t renew.

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah.

Elana Leoni: so there’s

Bryan McCorkle: what I usually, what I say with some companies that I’ve worked with in the past is you got a PO, congratulations, the problem starts. Because now you gotta deliver everything that you talked about, right? And this is why I like, you mentioned it, outcomes-based contracts are my favorite, right?

Because it takes the risk off the district, but it also puts the requirements that they have to use you. And so looking at that and understanding it, that, that is a part of our strategy as well

Elana Leoni: Did you work at Amira when outcomes-based contracts were happening? Okay. All right. ’Cause the CEO, what’s his name again?

Bryan McCorkle: Mark Angel?

And, and for those of you that like are listening that don’t understand what we’re talking about, can you just tell me a quick overview of what they are and maybe some quick pros and cons?

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah, no. So I look at it as all pros. if you– with an outcomes-based contract, what you’re essentially doing is you’re, you’re agreeing to a contract that they’re gonna pay you lump sums based on growth, right? Usually student growth, that kind of stuff. But th- what the district is promising you is they’re gonna give you whatever your definition of fidelity is, right?

So if it’s, you know, X number of hours a week usage or interaction or teacher PD, whatever it is, they give you a lump sum upfront, and then milestones are built in. For companies, if you do it the right way, you can set it up that if you overachieve, you can get more revenue. Most districts figured that piece out right away and said, “Nope, this is your cap.”

And so with OBCs, as long as the product works the way that you’ve positioned it to work, ’cause it only really– that product only did one thing, it’s the best thing you can ever ask for. With other products out there, they wouldn’t want it because there’s variables in there, amount of time and, you know, different curriculums, and is it supplemental?

Is it core? Is it spe- There’s too many other different variables. And so some people don’t like it. I– personally, I still like it to this day because I– most of the products that I work with, I truly believe in. You know what? I’ll, I’ll say it again. All the products I work with, I truly believe in. And so with that, I think an OBC is always great

It’s an organization, I’ll put it in the show notes, but it’s a, it’s a nonprofit that has a whole bunch of resources about outcomes based contracting, and they’ve got a whole list of like, this is what you need to be to be ready for OBC. So for those of you that are thinking about it, it, it never– There’s not like every ed tech company should do this.

You have to

Bryan McCorkle: Are you talking about Southern, Southern Education? the center of outcomes-based contracting?

Elana Leoni: Yeah, that one.

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah. The Southern Education Group. Yeah, they’re fantastic

Elana Leoni: Yeah. They were on a panel I believe at ASU GSB with Mark. So, all right. I wasn’t expecting to get into OKRs, but I, everybody just, people don’t talk about it, and if you’re not ready, it’s not good. But you have a partner that says, “Hey, I’m raising my hand to actually help you implement it and be a true partner.”

Bryan McCorkle: Exact– And, and, and honestly, when you run into it, a lot of the deals, like there’s a lot of folks in high-dosage tutoring right now where they’re– they get in, they set up, they buy all these tutors, but they’re not getting the engagement, right? With an OBC, right? Y-the g– You’re get– you’re guaranteeing they’re signing their, commitment to mandate usage, which in other areas, when you look at certain states, they won’t mandate a thing because they wanna give their teachers and principals the autonomy to do what they think is best.

Elana Leoni: Yeah, there was a district on this panel from Florida, and she had specific fidelity goals. Like, she had some implementation goals that she was evaluated on. And so, like, really talking about integration in a deep way of like, “I have committed to this. This is how I’m being evaluated as well.”

Elana Leoni: Yes. All right. So we’ve talked about state by state and how every state is different, but let’s talk about just how different they are, right? So, we obviously have to align with funding and things going on there, but maybe let’s– I know that you’re– you, like, you have talked about Florida in particular.

Can you just give an example about how different Florida is if we wanna do business as a edtech organization or an, or an education organization?

Bryan McCorkle: How, how much time do we have? No, look,

Elana Leoni: you could talk about this for at least an hour, right?

And honestly, this is like one of the things that makes Florida so different, right? It’s not birth rate like most declining state, right? It’s immigration policy. That’s the primary driver right now. we’re including over seventeen thousand fewer Engli-English language learners. And I would say that’s acute, right?

And, and it’s recent. If you layer in the voucher situation, like three-point-eight billion, I, I believe it is just about, right? This year’s redirected out of public schools, and that’s up from one point four three years ago, right? There’s like, what? Sixty-eight, sixty-nine percent of these voucher students were already in private schools, so the districts are losing budget without losing that kind of overhead.

Florida isn’t just losing students, it’s restructuring how money follows them, right? And so if your, if your buyer maps only points at districts, right? You’re already missing where the actual growth went

Elana Leoni: Yeah, I love how you have these stats top of mind. It’s like, oh my God.

Elana Leoni: but I will say Florida was just always been interesting to me. So when I started my career at Edutopia, I noticed that we had a huge contingent of Florida educators that were all in virtual schools, and that the virtual component within Florida has never really gone away and it’s somewhat increased after COVID.

So it’s really diverse and weird and, you know, lots of different, you know, we got rural, we got urban, we got big districts and super, super small districts.

Bryan McCorkle: Right?

Elana Leoni: so

Bryan McCorkle: areas, non-crowded areas, urban, rural, all within counties apart, you know? South Florida, uh, I would say the area around Duval or northeast like Jacksonville and the Panhandle are completely different worlds

Elana Leoni: Hmm. Duval was that district that was on the OBC panel, by the

Bryan McCorkle: Yep. Yeah.

Elana Leoni: the educators were in the, the crowd and they were like, “Duval,” and they were doing like

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah. Yeah. They’re, they’re great, they’re great folks over at Devol, I’ll tell you that

Bryan McCorkle: No, it’s, it’s

Elana Leoni: I navigate?

Bryan McCorkle: g- I– So here’s the thing, right? Projects and initiatives, right? Salespeople call them pain points. I, I call them projects and initiatives. What’s top of mind right now? And if, if you’re using any kind of tooling to just get, you know, better understanding of what districts are doing, right?

Whether it’s meeting notes, board meetings, or, you know, what they’re posting in their you know, Twitter, X feeds, LinkedIn, wherever they’re doing podcasts, right? If you’re looking at what projects and initiatives they have right now, that helps you as a CEO of any organization. If I’m doing tutoring, AI, writing, you know, you name it, supplemental research, out of school time, STEM, you name it.

’Cause if you’re not doing that, you’ve missed

Elana Leoni: Yes. I love that. Do your research before, and it’s not just one area. You’ve mentioned like bills, you’ve mentioned school board meetings, you’ve mentioned actual funding buckets too, state and federal, and those also have time-dependent things. Sentiment within parents articles. There’s so much going on.

But

Like, how do you get ready for that?

Elana Leoni: What’s the new “Game of Thrones” out? It’s not, uh…

Bryan McCorkle: of the Dragon.

Elana Leoni: Yeah, yeah. Okay. I was like, “No, no, no one’s watching”Game of Thrones” anymore,” but

Bryan McCorkle: Just had a new episode. Season finale’s on Sunday.

Elana Leoni: yeah, I think there’s a, like, you got me with the Game of Thrones, so I’m like

Bryan McCorkle: No Pascal. No Pascal.

Elana Leoni: All right. So I hope this bit of a conversation around just Florida alone helps people understand how they need to show up as a partner, as a, you know, “Hey, I’m your friend that you actually don’t know I’m a, I’m your friend yet. I’m just trying to help you, and I wanna come in and know that it’s even right to start with.”

Bryan McCorkle: I think we’re already seeing it, right? Especially with certain tools becoming free for teachers and other tools pivoting and the, the big screen ban that’s happening in every single state in some form or focus. I think with not, not just twenty twenty-six to twenty twenty-seven school year, but the twenty seven, twenty eight school year is gonna completely change the landscape

Elana Leoni: Ooh, cliffhanger. I’m gonna have you on and

Bryan McCorkle: you heard it here first.

Elana Leoni: we’re gonna talk we’re gonna talk about it next time. So, let’s jump into probably one of my favorite times is the lightning round in our podcast. It’s probably not our guests’ favorite time because I put them on the spot and they’re like

Bryan McCorkle: why is it so hot? Why is it

Bryan McCorkle: Mm-hmm.

Elana Leoni: get started now that I’ve scared you thoroughly.

Bryan McCorkle: Whoo!

Elana Leoni: Okay. I’m gonna start with this one because we were talking about this before the call, is what is the most stupidest, if that’s a word, stupidest thing that salespeople do at conferences that they just need to stop? Just stop being it. It doesn’t work

Bryan McCorkle: that’s a great question. I got– Oh, man, y- you see the costumes, you see the, the craziness. You see the, tchotchkes at the, at the table. Too bad for, you know, lightning round. I’m being super slow. I, I would say the, the, the, the breaking into cr– Or the, the stopping people that are clearly on their way to do something, right?

We’re all humans. So I, I think, I think that’s the, the silliest thing that I see at conferences. We become diff– people become different people there.

Elana Leoni: what is one word that school districts overuse when they’re describing a new tool? Like

Bryan McCorkle: All right, you’re gonna appreciate this one. It’s AI enabled

Elana Leoni: AI enable

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah. Every single tool is suddenly AI-enabled, and it’s… W- we got AI-enabled this, AI-enabled, blackboards, and AI-enable, AI-enabled chalk, toilets, you know, every toilet paper. It’s like everything is now AI-enabled. I’m… To do

Bryan McCorkle: think, I think people are treating it like a verb. It’s something you do. Like, “Oh, I AI-enabled it.” It’s– And it’s not a verb. It’s like it– When you look at AI or machine learning or, you know, like agentic services, it means something different, and you have to train these things to do it. So when you log into like a NotebookLM and you’re using it for research, or you’re using ChatGPT or OpenAI for one thing and Claude for another, like understanding how to use those products, like that is A- your AI-enabled your process, but it’s not a verb.

It’s not just something you do. So I, I feel as though now with all the vendors coming in, that’s AI tools now, and all of the teachers now using different bits of AI, that’s now AI-enabled. It’s like overused.

Bryan McCorkle: It– If you, if you, if you worked with me or if you’ve been on any one of my teams, you, you already know the answer. I don’t even have to say it. But circling back, it is the bane of my existence.

Elana Leoni: Oh, no. I just wrote an email that said that

Bryan McCorkle: No. Right? Every buyer dreads seeing it, and it signals, like it, it’s… Here’s what I say. It– Like, if you’re reaching out, you’re reaching out to add something of value to that person.

There’s an article. Here’s something. This is the look. This is what I need from you. Again, back to that humanity piece. Circling back, I feel like I’m in a really dirty bar, and I’m just smacking the gnats away, right? But when you’re always providing that value when you’re, when you reach back out asking, telling, sharing, those are the things.

Elana Leoni: Yeah. And honestly, that’s me being lazy. It’s me being lazy.

Bryan McCorkle: It’s like, I need an answer. Come on, let’s go.

Elana Leoni: Yeah. Yeah. All right. I’m gonna stop it because of you. And then, like, just you, you run a team, you run an agency, you’ve been in sales for a long time, and the name of the game is more, more, more, but also how do we close most efficiently?

So like, how are you using AI? So what’s your biggest use, your one use of AI that’s helping you close deals?

Bryan McCorkle: Ooh, see, I got a tie for two. Why you gotta make me choose one? So honestly, I would say– Can I give two? Is that okay? Are you gonna throw me off the show?

Elana Leoni: They have to be good though

And honestly, that one’s real, right? With AI, it, it, it– not just accessing transcripts, right? But it also gives me my perception of what happened in the room versus what actually said. I can walk out of meetings, you know, thinking I absolutely nailed it or I bombed, right? Prospect was totally, you know, bought in, we aligned, or it was a complete miss.

And the recording tells a completely different story. That gap between what I remember and what’s actually said, right? That’s where deals get, I, I don’t wanna just say lost, but that’s where we, we, we go the wrong path, right? We, we stray from the path of success. And now I can catch it before it costs me or my team can catch it before it really derails anything

And Joe will come in and be like, “Oh, that’s too soft,” or, “Oh,” you know, like, and AI can do that so beautifully. So

Bryan McCorkle: Yeah.

Elana Leoni: So I love that. all right, I’m gonna close out with a fun one, and I, I don’t think you prepped for this one. So, when we think about the sales environment for next year the next academic school year, you kind of ended with that cliffhanger.

What’s a movie or, like, a TV series you’d reco- like, that would depict the environment we’re gonna be in? Don’t say “Game of Thrones” because

Bryan McCorkle: it. You took my answer. All right. that’s a loaded one. I like that.

Elana Leoni: Hello

Bryan McCorkle: a, a show or a TV series that, okay, that can really describe it? Oh, you, you remember Sabrina the Teenage Witch?

Elana Leoni: Yeah. I am old enough to remember that.

It’s like, “What is go– what are we doing?” And I, I think next year we’re gonna see a lot of that because things are either gonna blow up and be great and give out some great research, or things are gonna blow up and we placed, you know, we placed all the chips on the wrong bets. And I, I think next year, not this year, not this academic year, but next academic year, we’re gonna see some massive changes in the industry, both positive and negative.

So

Elana Leoni: And, and we’re gonna need magic to overcome the big changes?

Bryan McCorkle: It, yes, yes. Magic and family.

Are there any other ways that they can get in touch with you, Brian?

Bryan McCorkle: carrier pigeon, MySpace, and email. It’s fantastic. No, I’m joking. they can absolutely add me on LinkedIn and, we’ll put my link in the thing so they can direct message me

Elana Leoni: Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show. And for those of you listening that just feel inspired, I want you to take a deep breath and say, “What is one or two things that Brian said that I can walk away with?” Whether it be a mind shift or just, “Hey, I’m gonna use AI a bit more intelligently to prep for calls.”

So that is my goal, is that you listen and you walk away, and this truly makes a difference. So thank you all for listening to our podcast. We’ll see you next time on All Things Marketing and Education. Take care, everybody. Thanks, Brian

Bryan McCorkle: Thank you