Tonight we’re breaking down the film Reel Bad Arabs: How Hollywood Vilifies a People, a feature documentary where acclaimed author, the late Dr. Jack Shaheen, analyzes the ways in which Hollywood has depicted Arabs from the earliest days of silent film to the early 2000s looking at Hollywood’s biggest blockbusters.

If you haven’t already seen Reel Bad Arabs, we HIGHLY recommend that you watch. It’s less than an hour and you can watch it for FREE on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxak6lFd-I

Returning to the podcast is Amira Ferjani, a Tunisian American and Marketing and Communications Specialist uses her platform to educate others on anti-SWANA discrimination and the often-erased diversity of the South West Asia and North Africa region. She draws on her lived experience and cultural heritage to challenge the erasure and misrepresentation of SWANA peoples in media, policy, and everyday language. Amira centers clarity, accountability, and the belief that education is the first step towards solidarity and, ultimately, liberation for all.

Subscribe to her Substack, Amira Out Loud here: http://amiraoutloud.substack.com. She’s also on most social media platforms as @amiraoutloud.

Also returning to our podcast is Muna Najib. Muna is a first-generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker and educator. She has been advocating and teaching about Palestine and other marginalized communities for well over a decade. She is a graduate of University at Buffalo with a degree in English, Third world literature and African American studies. She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine’s full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea.

Reach out to her at mntaha@gmail.com. You can also follow her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mnnajib7.

Joining us for the first time here in the studio are 2 college students – I’ll start with Lina Abdou. Lina is from Morocco and a senior studying International Relations who’s also a photographer who dabbles a lot with identity as a topic.

Next is Laith Ali, a computer science major, Class of 2026. He’s a Palestinian American whose family is from Jenin and Abu Qash.

Follow Students for Justice in Palestine on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/sjp.urand donate to their group and efforts to helping the people of Palestine here: https://linktr.ee/UR.SJP

Lastly, but certainly not least, is Munir Atalla. Munir is the Head of Production & Acquisitions at Watermelon Pictures. Visit their website to learn more about the distribution and production company whose mission is to shift culture on a large scale by bringing Palestinian cinema, and other untold stories, to broad audiences in a way that entertains, inspires, and activates audiences.

Subscribe to their streaming platform, Watermelon Plus, where you can watch over 60 films elevating bold voices from marginalized and underrepresented filmmakers.

As promised here are some other resources:

Books – Orientalism by Edward Said; Reel Bad Arabs by Dr. Jack Shaheen

Articles - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1priV6Ew23wYz1Vm0tefsERqVCz-a4UCP77UdWWrAqbY/edit?usp=drive_link

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button and if you liked tonight’s episode, please give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you liked the most! Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

06:37 - The Influence of Animation on Cultural Identity

09:52 - Arab American Heritage Month: A Time for Reflection and Hope

19:27 - Exploring the Impact of Stereotypes in Film

28:03 - Exploring Media Representation of Arabs

37:55 - Reclaiming Narratives: The Impact of Stereotypes in Film

41:40 - Representation and Misrepresentation in Media

46:21 - The Rise of Alternative Storytelling

58:03 - Continuing the Conversation on Real Bad Arabs

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Common Thread

Check out Common Thread on Lunchador! https://feeds.captivate.fm/common-threads-hardcore/

Hello pod.

It's the second week of Arab American Heritage Month.

I'm your host Jackie McGriff and if this is your first time listening to the podcast, welcome to Representation in Cinema.

We talk about the films that center the stories and lived experiences of Black Brown Indigenous peoples as well as on the film industry itself.

I'm not only your host, but also the founder, director and co producer of Our Voices Project, a production company that centers the stories of Black Brown Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We are community engaged filmmakers who really view that you can't center these voices without being in community and in solidarity with them.

If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and hit the little bell to get notified about when new episodes drop.

If you're listening on your preferred podcast platform, hit that follow button and if you like this episode, Please rate us 5 stars, leave a comment and share your thoughts about any of the things that you hear in tonight's episode.

Before we get into the discussion, let's introduce our guest.

Returning back to the podcast is Amirah Farjani, a Tunisian American and marketing and communication specialist who uses her platform to educate others on anti Swana discrimination and the often erased diversity of the Southwest Asia and North Africa region.

She draws on her lived experience and cultural heritage to challenge the erasure and misrepresentation of Swana peoples.

In media policy and everyday language, Amira centers clarity, accountability and the belief that her education is the first step towards solidarity and ultimately liberation for all.

Welcome back to the podcast.

Amira hi, Nice to be back.

Also returning to our podcast is Muna Najeeb.

Muna is a first generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker and educator.

She has been advocating and teaching about Palestine and other marginalized communities for well over a decade.

She is a graduate of University at Buffalo with a degree in English, Third World Literature and African American Studies.

She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine's full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea.

Welcome back.

Una hello and Marhama.

It's a pleasure to be back.

Jackie.

Yes, absolutely.

Joining us for the first time here in the studio are two college students.

I'll start with Lena Abdou from Morocco And a senior studying international relations who's also a photographer who dabbles a lot with identity as a topic.

Welcome to the podcast, Lena.

Thank you for having me, Jackie.

It's great to be here.

Awesome.

It's great to have you here.

He's a Palestinian American whose family is from Jenin and Abu Kash.

Welcome to the podcast, Leit.

Hello.

It's great to be here and I'm glad you guys are doing this.

Yes, we're glad to be doing this for sure.

And lastly, but certainly not least, is Munir Attalla.

Munir is the head of production and acquisitions at Watermelon Pictures.

Welcome to the podcast, Munir.

Thank you, Jackie, for having me.

Yes, great to have you all here.

So, by the way, for the rest of our series, if you haven't already seen Real Bad Arabs, we highly recommend that you do.

So that's real as an R E E L Bad Arabs.

It's less than an hour and it's available on YouTube for free right now.

And if you go to the show notes, of course, if you are either listening and or watching, the link will be in our show notes.

So you will have no excuse.

So make sure you guys go and watch that.

Now, as I mentioned before, some of you are returning to the podcast, some of you are new to the podcast.

So I wanted to start with this.

What were the films that you grew up loving as a kid that really stuck with you throughout the years?

Leith, I'll start with you.

I'm a big fan of the Spider man stuff when I was younger, so that's what I really grew up with.

Yeah.

Oh, which Spider Man?

Which Spider Man?

Oh, it depends.

I'm a big Andrew Garfield guy.

Yes.

He's a great person and I think he's a really good Spider man too.

So Spider Man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is the right answer.

No.

Okay.

Lena, how about you?

So it's.

It's complicated because I didn't grow up in the United States, so it.

It would be different context.

However, there are some movies that are relevant to today's discussion that I used to love when I was a kid.

And that's Iron Man.

All of the Iron Mans or Iron Man, I guess.

And what's the Aladdin, of course.

I used to love that movie for some reason.

Let's see.

Amira, how about you?

Yeah, I too love the Aladdin soundtrack.

Like, it is just so good.

I probably have listened to that soundtrack a lot.

But as far as movies, something I really liked was Mad Max, which is, you know, kind of funny because it's a desert movie that doesn't actually make Arabs look bad, which is what I thought Dune was at first.

And then I found out that we're supposed to be in it and I was like, wait, but I love Mad Max.

I did watch Iron Man.

I love like Pixar, dreamworks movies though.

Like Inside out, stuff like that.

I like a movie that can make me cry.

I'm a big crier.

Nice.

Vinira, how about you?

Yeah, I think, you know, one movie that I remember watching as a kid and I'm just watching so many times after that is Spirited Away by Love.

Spirited Away, it's like related, but not related.

But it's just such a culturally specific form of storytelling.

Such a beautiful combination of craft and tradition.

So, yeah, that's one.

That one holds a special place in my heart.

Yeah, I have some movies to watch, guys, because I have not watched really any of this.

I don't even think I've.

I don't think I've watched Iron man.

So I gotta.

I gotta go back and.

No, don't do it.

No.

Okay, all right.

And then the do not watch list.

Got it.

So I guess I kind of thinking about it.

I don't know about favorites, but I def.

There is definitely films that growing up and like Lena.

I actually, I wasn't born in the United States, so I was born in Saudi Arabia.

Yeah, I was born in Saudi Arabia and moved to the US when I was about five years old.

So some of my earliest memories being introduced specifically to American films or western made films.

The first film I remember watching as a kid was Cinderella when my dad brought home the VHS tape.

So this is the 80s, we watched VHS tapes.

And that was like my introduction to I guess like, you know, Hollywood or specifically Disney films.

And much like you guys too, I remember watching later on Aladdin and that was the first film that I remember watching at the theaters, going to the movie theaters and that was my first time at the theaters.

I was probably around 10 or 11 years old.

And same like I really enjoyed that movie as a kid.

You know, we know many years later, like all of the problematic themes in that film.

But I really enjoyed it as a kid and even as a moving movie going experience.

I think it was one of the first films that Disney used some like CGI effects like in the Cave of Wonders and Aladdin is on the Carpet and things like.

So that just like watching it for like Those aesthetics was.

Was cool.

Yeah.

But again, I think that's.

Yeah, it's related to this topic and specifically talking about, you know, going into Jack Shaheen and his work.

And he also talks about that film and all of stereotypical tropes that were used in the making of that film specifically.

We know Disney in general is known to use a lot of different stereotypical tropes in many of their films.

Right.

But that one in particular.

Yeah, that's.

As far as films.

That's.

Yeah, those definitely had.

But they had an impact on me, especially as a very young person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so I'm assuming the cartoon version of Cinderella, or was it the cartoon Disney's.

Cinderella.

Yeah.

And then the cartoon.

Right.

Because we have remakes now.

We're at the time of remakes, so Aladdin, also the cartoon.

And then I don't know if you guys have watched the remake.

I have.

And that also comes with a bunch of problems, too.

Various ways to talk and.

Yeah, so I don't know.

Yeah, that.

That basic.

That basically covers that.

Sorry.

I, like, I.

Whenever I hear Cinderella now, it's just.

It's Brandy Cinderella.

So I had to.

I had like.

Yeah, I was like.

I'm assuming it's the cartoon, but also I'm like, she could mean the Brandy one.

You know, the first one I watched too was the one where she goes,.

Oh, this is love.

And there's like a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Disney one.

But yeah, no shout out to.

To Brandy and that.

Great.

That.

That was cinematic masterpiece.

I agree, Jackie.

Cinematic masterpiece.

Okay, so before we dive deeper into our film discussion, it's Arab American Heritage Month.

So for all of you, what comes to mind as far as there being a month where Arab cultures, identities, and lived experiences are acknowledged in America.

And.

Munir, I'll actually start with you.

Yeah, thank you.

You know, I think it's a moment of reckoning for our community right now.

The sort of Eye of Sauron very much still faces the Middle east.

And it feels that we, you know, our.

Our cultural project in the west, insofar as there is one, has sort of failed, you know, to result in any material difference between, you know, the aftermath of 9 11, the Iraq war leading up to now.

It feels that our community has kind of emphasized the wrong things in so many ways, you know, and de.

Emphasizing culture, choosing to invest in sort of professional tracks, opting for assimilation over resistance, perhaps maybe not supporting one another enough not to totally lambast us, but you know, it's, it's difficult to be optimistic in this moment where just so much havoc is being wrought on our people.

So as a diaspora, I think it's a moment of profound sadness and reflection on what we need to be doing better.

AMIRA okay, good, because I was going to say disappointment, and I was like, am I about to like, bring the party down?

But yeah, I definitely, it definitely just feels like disappointment right now.

Especially like remembering Joe Biden declaring Arab American Heritage Month and the time that that was, that it was such an empty gesture.

I do have hope that, you know, this will be something more widely recognized that like Munir was saying, the diaspora, we can come together and really show how much we've given not only to this country, but just the history of our, all of our diverse cultures that are there.

So I'm hoping we can grow from this.

But it's so hard, especially when we're hearkening back to real bad Arabs.

When you watch that and you're like, wow, has this gotten better?

How's this gotten worse?

Where are we today?

It feels like there's much progress to be made, but having these conversations, knowing that there's, you know, podcasts like this and work being done is what makes me hopeful.

So disappointing right now, but hopeful for the future.

LAITH yeah, I think that's a, it's like a really good way that that was put.

You know, it's just really hopeful for the future because, you know, it's just a very empty handed gesture.

But I just really hope it's going to be a good way for Arab Americans to stay tied to their heritage and be proud of their culture.

I know it's something that I struggled with a lot as a kid, you know, and I guess like a lot of it is due to how Arabs are portrayed in film.

I was treated in a racist way many, you know, for like most of my life in American schools.

And yeah, it just really made me drift from my heritage and made me disappointed.

And when I realized that it was stupid for me to ever be disappointed in who I am, it really gave me like a lot of pride and made me feel a lot better about myself.

So I really do hope that the way this is used is that Arab Americans can stay tied to their heritage and be proud of their culture and be proud of their origins.

LENA I agree.

I think this is all really beautifully said.

I think to, I guess add on to it is that it's always important to have hope in the future.

And I think a lot of our work that we do as activists and as artists is to raise awareness and have discussions and conversations, because that's one of the most important parts of making change happen.

And I think one of the.

To bring up another point which.

Yeah, like, Arab.

Arab American Heritage Month is great, right?

Because, you know, I love to celebrate and give me a reason to party.

But also, I mean, what is.

What is an Arab to begin with?

And there's, like you said, the difference between Middle east and North Africa and Swana, or Southeast Southwest Asia and North Africa.

And I mean, I never really, like.

Like, I wouldn't call myself an Arab, but, like, I. I know I am, but also, like, whenever I'm applying to.

And I think Amira is going to understand what I'm talking about as a.

As Tunisian.

And I think also, just.

How do I put this better?

Like, at the end of the day, it's like, I mean, people from the Swano region are always seen as one big entity that's not really recognizing the diversity of the region and of the people.

So there's a good, there's a bad, but there's hope also.

And where there's a will, there's a way.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So it's funny because when I was talking to Jackie earlier on, I was like, you know, this Arab American Heritage Month thing is very new.

And I was like, when did this even come about?

And it kind of, like, snuck up.

And I was like, why is it in the month of April?

And I wanted to know how it even sort of manifested.

And I completely agree with, you know, all of my peers here.

There's.

There's certainly, as far as feelings go, and the time that we live in, a lot of conflicting feelings, like, are gonna come about.

Right.

And I'm gonna say it probably may have also had something to do with Rashida Tlaib also being with the administration as well.

But it's been sort of in the works for the past handful of years until it came into fruition.

And I think, as my peers are mentioning, the conflicting feelings and disappointment is because it's been under.

It was under the Biden administration two short years later that we saw the onslaught and the unfolding of the genocide in Gaza specifically.

Right.

So there's a lot of layers here to kind of unpack.

But I think, like, you know, given absolutely what Lena was saying, given, I think all of these.

What I want to say, labels, as far as our identities are concerned, a lot of these labels that have been sort of put upon us.

Right.

Whether we're part of the diaspora here in the west, who grew up in the west, or whether it's our.

Our people, our various peoples in those regions, and specifically three regions under whether we want to call it Swana, people still say the Middle east, even though that is a colonial term.

But whatever these labels are and connecting and facing the fact and the reality that there is a very complicated and long colonial history there that has affected not only those regions, but continue to affect us here in the United States.

So there is that.

That reality, but also there's the side of the reality where we've had various, like, iconic and very important figures in our cultural backgrounds.

Anyone from, you know, Edward Said to people like Casey Kasem and other people who have worked in the industry who never really got recognized for their work as far as being in the industry and other works that they've done for their people and cultures.

So I think it's kind of trying to bring that at the forefront of those contributions and having people learn about certain people or certain.

Yeah.

Things that have been sort of accomplished.

Yeah.

Thank you all for sharing that.

And you all shared a lot that, of course, we'll be talking about, like, in our film discussion about Real Bad Arabs.

Because a lot of what you all are touching on and mirroring and presenting.

Right.

Isn't addressed, especially when Jack Shaheen is talking about a lot of the stereotypes.

Right.

That are being put or brought, like, being put on our screens and how.

And how Hollywood is depicting Arabs.

So I want to know from each of you, upon watching Real Bad Arabs, what was your initial reaction?

Lena, I want to start with you.

It was great.

I think a lot of the thoughts like we were talking in the car that I have that I just, like, can't put into words.

I feel like Dr. Shaheen did a really great job at articulating a lot of them.

There's a lot of stereotypes that are.

It's just.

I think it's a very important narrative, and I think it should be a lot more discussed and a lot more popularized in.

Within academic spaces as well.

As a student myself, I think there's, like, the heavy use of colonial terms in classes, and even in my art classes and film classes, we talk about everything but these.

And sometimes it's just brushed off.

Brushed off as a joke.

I remember I took a film or a film class and the professor was kind of brushing off, like, oh, that's just like a regular Tuesday.

It's just like a person of color being treated badly.

Oh, well.

And then move on.

So, yeah,.

Yeah, I really think it was.

It was great.

I'm glad that someone brought a good amount of light onto that in that documentary.

Everything was shaped pretty well.

And I guess just the part that really shocked me was the depiction of Arabs in these movies.

You have certain parts in the US where you don't have any Arabs there.

And is this going to be the way that these Americans are going to view Arabs?

They don't have any connection with an Arab person.

And now they're going to think that all Arabs are these loud, irrational, aggressive monsters and villains.

And it goes even deeper that these kids are going to learn that it's this good versus bad thing.

I can go deeper into that, but I digress.

But no, it was really great.

I'm glad someone showed light on that.

I feel like every single movie that he touched on was just despicable and disgusting.

And I guess the worst part about, you know, the whole entire thing and the realization is there's more movies like that and not just the ones that he discussed.

And it's in a lot of them and a lot of the common movies now too.

Like I would say An American Sniper.

It's probably one of my least favorite of all time where it's glorifying this guy and it's, oh, even for the quick example, he has to like, kill this kid because the kid has a gun.

It's just very despicable and disgusting to me.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yoneir.

Yeah.

You know, I think there's so much to say about this film.

And one of the things that struck me is how much it sort of pulls on the work of previous academic Edward Said.

For those who don't know, you know, Edward Said is a Palestinian academic who wrote the book Orientalism and sort of coined that term.

And what.

What Orientalism is about is kind of watching how the west watches the east or how the Occident or the west constructs this notion of the Orient not only in ways that are stereotypical and misrepresented, but in a way to also shape their understanding of themselves.

In other words, like, there.

There can be no west without an east that is inferior, that is barbaric, that is savage, that is backwards.

And I think that these ideas that were first kind of observed by Saeed are so brilliantly captured in this film that Jack Shaheen takes what could be, you know, sort of trapped in the ivory tower as this kind of high minded theory and brings it to a popular medium like film and is able to kind of flip the lens on Hollywood and show that this cultural project is actually built on a foundation of dehumanization.

And you know, even from the start, with Birth of a Nation, that's a whole other question.

And the anti blackness at the core of Hollywood, I think it's very clear that this project continues to be fueled by that very same animus and funded by it, funded by the very same forces that are waging war right now across the Arab world.

So, so much to say, but this is one of the things that sticks out to me.

And although it's a little bit of a dated film in some ways, it came out quite a while ago.

It feels like you could so easily turn on any streaming service and find analogous examples to plug in.

And, you know, while things have maybe improved in some ways, which we can talk about, they also have regressed in others.

Yeah, yeah.

And particularly when we were talking about.

I know we.

In our last episode, Amira and I.

Well, Amira had first of all, a whole lot of notes from Orientalism by Edward Said.

And I know Amira, you.

I mean, we could probably just do a podcast like series on that book alone, so.

And Amira, I know you have thoughts about real bad Arabs as well.

Yeah, I think, because I just saw it for the first time, I think last year.

It was definitely.

It's something that I've been exploring already, so it wasn't shocking, but it's still such a reckoning of just how normalized it is that, you know, yeah, I can watch Aladdin and love Aladdin.

And it's kind of like almost so foreign the way that they paint us that I never even made the connection of like, that's technically supposed to be me.

Like that's technically supposed to be a representation of my people, my culture, and their lecherous and barbaric.

And I mean, someone.

I just had it pointed out to me the way that they like darken their eyes because hyperpigmentation around the eyes is a feature that Arabs have.

They make them sinister, they make them hook nosed.

And having Jack Shaheen lay that all out and the care that he put into it, which was much the same care that you feel from Edward Said in Orientalism of just showing how prevalent it is and going that extra step to show why showing Israel's influence.

Showing the Department of Defense's influence really, really makes you think.

Because I think it's very.

I've always been cognizant to military propaganda, but when you match that with not only, you know, we have to go fight for our country, fight for democracy, but this is who we're fighting against, that Arabs are anti democracy, anti American, is where you realize, like, oh, I'm supposed to be the villain at all times.

And the way that he brings up movies.

I was reading an article in the Cairo Review that was more recent.

I can't remember when it came out.

And he was talking about, like, Dallas Buyers Club, where they just.

It's not even about Arabs, and they inject us into there and call us a slur.

And it's like, why is it such an easy, like, throwaway joke and still not being reckoned with?

Because.

Yeah, I also took media representation classes in college, and we talked about how women and how poor people are portrayed or how southern people are portrayed in much the same way as poor people.

Yet we never really covered Arabs.

We never really covered Muslims and how especially Muslim women are portrayed in these movies.

So it's something that, you know, I have to reckon with both with myself of the types of movies that I was consuming and not making that connection with, and then also just with, unfortunately, once you do open your eyes to it, how prevalent it is.

Yeah, for sure.

Muna, you were the person who introduced me to this film.

And then I remember contacting you right afterwards and going, girl, we gotta talk about this.

What was your.

I want to know what your initial reaction to this film was.

Yeah, so.

Yeah.

And I've been wanting to specifically talk about this film and specifically also talk more about Dr. Jack Shaheen and, you know, the amazing contributions that he has given us and sort of one of the people who has laid a foundation of doing this type of work and to encourage to continue this work of, you know, uncovering all of the.

Yeah, all of the biases and all of the basically wrongdoings of Hollywood and its portrayals of not only Arab depictions and Muslim depictions, but really of so many other background depictions as well of marginalized groups.

And Dr. Jack Shaheen, you know, has done an amazing job with the time that he had here with us in doing that work and highlighting those things.

And I know Munir mentioned, like, Birth of a Nation.

Absolutely.

Which one of was this, you know, horrible but also foundational film.

And Jack Shaheen, you know, talks about that as well.

And how Hollywood and also government policies have worked hand in hand for a very long time when it comes to how these things have affected and continue to oppress people of color, black people, other marginalized groups.

And yeah, and of course, specifically we're talking about the Arab depictions on film and in media.

And.

And yeah, it does go back to government policies all the way back from after World War I.

Like, it's been over a century.

And that manifested itself into film.

What else?

I was introduced to Dr. Jack Shaheen in my undergrad.

That's when I first.

It's been a while since then.

That's when I first saw the film by one of my English professors.

He started teaching some Arab literature and Palestinian literature classes.

And so that's when I first saw the movie or the documentary rather.

And yeah, unfortunately, it really is still very relevant.

I think there could be a real Bad Arabs Part two, Part three, you know, depending on who's doing this work.

I think there also needs to be.

I was telling Jackie, there needs to be like a real badass Arabs like documentary done because, you know, we do see also, we see all of these horrible depictions and portrayals in past films and even continuing still today.

But there has slowly been this change in the narrative, very slowly now, you know, and we do have more filmmakers and writers and producers and things like that who are of Arab descent and background doing their own work and trying to break through in the industry.

We have our, you know, Ramis and Mo's on Netflix and that sort of thing.

And that is also part of the journey.

So I just wish that Dr. Shaheen was still with us.

I know we live in really difficult times when it comes to everything that's happening.

From.

With Palestine and around surrounding Palestine.

And he's very specifically also highlights Palestinians also in the documentary, which I thought was great and very important to make that also distinction because there has been very specific portrayals around Palestinians and everything surrounding that.

And yeah, and also just to echo what Lena said, like, what the.

What does the term Arab mean?

Right.

And just going back to that and us reclaiming that.

Those identities and not accepting the colonial rhetorics that have been placed upon us.

And because it means many things to be Arab.

Many things, you know.

So, yeah,.

We'll get a little bit into how all of these really manufacture consent.

Right.

For all the atrocities that we're seeing happening in the Swana region and has been happening, especially to today, you know, we're seeing the images coming out of Lebanon and I just is constantly Going back to again, like what, what Hollywood, you know, deems as acceptable as far as like depicting marginalized groups and specifically Arabs and Muslims for the audience.

I just want to give you like a few examples.

Of course, again, and I'm cannot stress this enough, Real Bad Arabs is for free on YouTube right now.

Go into the show notes, click on the link and make sure you watch.

It's less than an hour, but if you weren't already aware of some of these stereotypes and I'm going to just like quickly go through, you will get like a, a master class like on that and like uno.

You were saying.

I, I mean I would love like a.

Not love but like I would appreciate like a, like a part two or three because this could easily.

And again.

And also, and just to add really quickly, if there's any.

There's so many interviews that we have with Dr. Shaheen out there on YouTube for free.

Watch them if you're still like, you know, educating yourself and learn.

He, he really has given.

It's amazing like what the man has shared and it's, and it's not just him, but again these people who have laid a foundation and we're still like we are seeing not just in academia and entertainment and all of the, in the arts and other facets where people are really trying to do this work to change the image, the narrative to reclaim what is true from what is not true.

So definitely anything that you can look up on what he has thought is important.

Yeah, for sure.

So y' all got, y' all got homework.

Okay, so some of the, some of the stereotypes.

So real quick.

So one of the first things Dr. Jack Jean mentions is so it's always, you know, the establishing shots are usually like it's in the desert.

It's showing the desert as very like desolate and threatening.

You know, there's magic carpets, you see snake charmers.

There's like Arab men are depicted as bloodthirsty criminals, as terrorists, one dimensional caricatures.

Sometimes there are comic relief.

I remember like my earliest memory, I guess like going back and it's also mentioned in the film is that one scene in Indiana Jones.

Because I grew up on that.

That's what I grew up watching.

Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Killing an Arab is used as comic relief.

And like camels.

And camels, right?

Lots of camels.

Seeing it like, like the mummy.

They're or they're like greedy, they're rich and incompetent.

Things like this Arab women are seen as intelligent but hypersexualized.

They're veiled or they're veiled and submissive or they're also terrorists.

We see this in films like Death Before Dishonor, as I mentioned, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

There's also True Lies and Rules of Engagement, which was actually written, let's see, by a former, this former Secretary of the Navy, James Webb.

So again that, that whole idea of like get manufacturing consent, you know, to again go and like all of these places and the other film.

So Muna, you mentioned Not Without My Daughter.

Can you explain for our audience about that film?

I don't know if anyone here has seen that film.

It's like made in the 90s.

It was like a made for, I think a made for TV film starring.

Oh, I mentioned her, a well known actress, Sally Fields.

Yes.

And she's a beloved American actress, yada yada.

And you know, portraying this woman, this white woman who has a daughter with a man who, I, I don't know if he's supposed to be Persian, it's been so long, or Arab, I, I'm not sure.

But he was definitely this character, this sort of one dimensional, sort of angry man who wanted to control her and their daughter and keep them sort of where he wanted to keep them and not give them their freedom and not, you know, so she's trying to escape this violent, repressive situation.

And I think that film made an impact on my mother.

Hated that film.

I think that film had an impact also because, you know, it wasn't like your blatant, like where you just have these masked men with guns or bombs or whatever.

You know, it was this actual person speaking.

We hear him speaking and playing this role and.

But it just perpetuating that idea of how backwards and scary our men are.

This brown idea, this idea of a brown man.

And you know, this is the way they are, this is the way they think.

Stay away from them.

Don't ever think of being in a relationship with them.

It's a trap.

Know that sort of thing.

And that has not gone away.

Like that has not gone away to this day where we see our men absolutely.

The way women have been portrayed also is extremely problematic.

I guess I want to say the way that our men have been portrayed and also this narrative against them.

And I'm specifically thinking about the genocide and the men who, you know, with their bare hands went out to find loved ones and dig people under the rubble.

And it's those same men that have been smeared and lied about and that depiction of those men being angry while the men who were doing that were angry because their people are being slaughtered.

They're digging for their families in the rubble.

So again, just reclaiming the narrative and speaking the truth and putting the humanity back into where humanity has been stripped of those people.

Yeah.

And also Jack Shaheen highlights it.

Right.

The three.

The trifecta.

Yeah.

The.

Is it billionaires, bombers and belly dancers.

So that was.

Those were like the flat sort of like images of people for a long time.

Yeah.

Leith, you had also mentioned.

You'd mentioned a film and maybe I already named it, but did you want to talk about before we were talking, there was a film that you were.

You were bringing up in our conversation.

Yeah, I believe it's a.

And, you know, growing up, I thought, I don't know the exact name, but it's just.

It's about like, this.

He's supposed to be like, the greatest Israeli soldier of all time.

Is it Don't Mess with Zohan?

I think that's what it is.

Zohan.

Okay.

And it's just this.

The depiction itself is just.

It's just.

I mean, I didn't know that movie existed until I saw, like, a lot of stuff about Adam Sandler come up.

Because when I was younger, you know, I'd watch Adam Sandler movies and I'm like, oh, this is kind of funny.

You know, grown ups, you know, it's like comedic.

Yeah.

And then I later learned that this guy is a huge Zionist and he doesn't think my people have the right to live and the right to defend themselves.

But, yeah, that movie is just one that I find disgusting because it just portrays Palestinians as this stupid inferior race case.

And unfortunately, that's the.

That's the way that it's spoken about all over Israel.

Yeah.

It can even go as deep as children's school books when Palestinians are only seen as farmers or terrorists.

And I'm just.

I'm.

I'm much more than that.

My people are much, much more than that.

But, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Amira and Munir, any.

Any thoughts or.

Lena, any.

Any other thoughts about that or.

Or any other examples that you can think of?

I guess what's coming up to me too is kind of broadening because recently there was a lot of conversation about the movie centers and the Oscars, and it just.

It just really makes you think how, like, for example, like, for black people, Black women, to be specific, about black people, broadly, a lot of the recognition happens when the roles include a lot of suffering.

Like 12 Years a Slave girl.

That's a whole other episode right there.

Yeah.

And like, I think the Help was another one of those movies.

Green Book.

Yeah.

And I think Viola Davis got an Oscar for something like that too.

And it's, it's just like you can't really appreciate us unless we are suffering and unless we show you the worst parts of us instead.

And I think like, this is just making me think like, where are all the.

The like to be specific, since today's episode is about Arabs.

Like, where are the Arab artists?

Like, where are the.

The.

The actual like not gimmicky parts of the culture?

Where are the.

Like.

Ghassan Kanafani is a really great Palestinian author.

There's even more like modern Arab artists everywhere.

But we never, almost never see them in the media.

And it's just instead we see like these flattened like two dimensional roles, like of being a terrorist, a victim or like a background character.

And to even how like a lot of the times within, like.

So, like if there's a. I was watching Prison Break recently and it was great in the beginning, but then they had one of the.

They.

They had a whole season set in Yemen and it was filmed in Morocco.

Of course there's a lot of Moroccan actors that.

There's a lot of actors.

I don't think there was a single Yemeni person in the cast.

And everybody was speaking everything but Yemeni Arabic.

And I think that's a big thing too where a lot of the time it's not really seen that.

There's layers and like, I understand that that's.

That guy's Moroccan.

That guy's from the Gulf.

Like these people don't speak the same language.

And the main, the main character of these people was this Arab woman that took off her veil and kissed this white guy.

And I forgot what her name was, but the actress was Israeli and she spoke gibberish the whole time.

And I think like this is just like one of the frustrating things where it's like.

And also it's in the worst.

Most like.

What's a good word to describe it?

It's the most like, you know how like in.

No, I'm talking about the places.

Like I, I hate to.

It's the most.

What's the word?

Like, you know how like in Brazil they have the favelas.

That's kind of where they filmed the place.

And in the worst parts of the most impoverished places in Morocco were like.

And they have like side like, side characters being, like, a vendor trying to live his day with his stuff, like, splattering all over and.

Anyways, I guess this is an example that I thought of that really, because I really loved that show up until that moment.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Popularized stereotypical scenery.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

I first wanted to touch on what Muna was saying about our men, because that's.

I read Perfect Victims by Mohamed El Kurd, and that's definitely was something that spoke to me a lot.

I mean, even when we're just talking about the death toll and we're talking about women and children, and it's like, well, what about the men?

And these are men that go miles to find food for their families.

And like you said, like, they're angry and why are they.

And that's also something I was kind of talking to Jackie about, about how we see these scenes.

And even with that, we're talking about stereotypical settings.

I mean, we see the rubble.

We never see the bombs being dropped.

We never see how it came to be that way.

It's just.

It's presented in a way that is supposed to make the viewer think that that's just how we live.

Like, we choose to live amongst rubble.

We choose to live fighting each other over, I don't know, goats instead of building civilization.

And then, shoot, there's something else somebody touched on, but I can't think of it.

But it's just so one note at this point.

You think that creatives would want to be more creative and to get past that.

Oh, I remember when we're talking about tragedy, that's definitely something that I worry about.

And I was talking to Jackie about this.

I watched the Voice of Hindra Job, and I was thinking, this is the first time I had seen on a big screen, just like a movie of all Arabs, of all people that look like me, and a story that is fully about us and showing us fully human.

But then I do worry so much about us ending up falling into this trap where the only story we get to tell is of genocide and suffering.

And so I do just hope that we can continue to have shows like MO and things like that that show the full depth of our humanity, that there is struggle just like every human struggles, but that we're still humans underneath it, and that we're just trying to live as we want to and not in response to, you know, munitions and military invasions and stuff like that.

Meaner.

Any thoughts on that or the question or anything that our other guests mentioned?

Yeah, no.

I mean, it's Hard to.

Hard to be the way everyone else has been talking about it.

I'd love to talk a little bit about one of the projects that we're working on, but you tell me when the right time is for that, please.

Right now.

Now is the time.

Well, you know, we've been talking about the, the ails of Hollywood and what a, you know, problematic project it is.

But I think that we have to also recognize that, you know, we, we also fueled this project with our attention, with our dollars, with our viewership.

Right.

And that's why we've tried to create an alternative in Watermelon Pictures.

For those who don't know, Watermelon Pictures is a Palestinian owned distribution and production company.

And basically the idea behind it was in knowing that Hollywood would never take our stories seriously, would never respect them, would never elevate them the way that they deserve to be.

And that even though there are these amazing films being made and incredible storytellers from our region and our diaspora, a lot of the films were hitting a wall at the distribution stage and kind of being de facto silenced by this industry that would just prefer not to get, you know, tangled up in all of that.

Like they see it as sort of a liability, a political risk, a business risk, or they're just outright, you know, political opponents of, of our project or our humanity in a way.

So even in the, the launching of Watermelon Pictures, we tapped into Dr. Shaheen's work and in our launch video, we actually used clips from the films that he highlighted saying that for far too long we've been misrepresented and that this was finally an opportunity for us to kind of seize control of our own destiny in this cultural landscape and to try and build an institution that can act as sort of a base for that.

And over the last two years, it's been about two years now since we launched, we've been met with a lot of success.

I believe our community has really backed us in a way that has been very heartening.

Obviously we've also received all sorts of attack.

But I think that we try to think of the project as a long term struggle that is really fueled by our community.

And that's why about a year ago we launched our own streaming service, which is called Watermelon plus, where anyone can subscribe and access a huge library of content about the region, but also, you know, stuff made from all over the world, buy and for people of color, indigenous people.

And we hope to only continue branching out and expanding sort of the scope of our work because we noticed very quickly that so many other communities are facing the very same discrimination that we are.

And so I would, you know, if I could just make a plug for.

For everyone that these, you know, supporting this project, subscribing, it really goes such a long way towards enabling what we do.

And that, you know, if you, if you've seen the problem and you agree that something is.

Is wrong in the way that Hollywood is operating, we're trying to create at least one sort of response to that.

And we also welcome anyone to reach out to us with their ideas, with their films.

We, we just want to be sort of a home for adversarial, subversive storytelling that Hollywood, we know is never going to enable by itself.

So, yeah, happy to, you know, talk more, but also don't want to take out too much of the airwaves of this.

No worries.

Listen in our other parts that will be.

Will have all the opportunity because of course, I want to continue talking about that because here at our Voices project, that's what we're all about.

It's kind of like pulling away from depending on Hollywood, right, to tell our stories, when in fact, we are the ones who want to tell our stories to shape our narratives.

So it's always encouraging and inspiring, right, to see, you know, you know, distribution and production companies like Watermelon Pictures.

I know I was excited when that trailer first came out and I was like, finally and like, you know, just seeing so many, like, artists, you know, from, like, all over again, just like, taking hold of their narratives for their people.

That's why I got into it.

That's why so many other filmmakers get into it.

So, I mean, it's amazing to see.

We will be talking more about Real Bad Arabs in our next episode because, of course, like I said, we could put a whole podcast, like series, a whole teach in series, you know, about this film.

It should be required viewing, which is why, again, like I said, I cannot stress enough to our viewers, to our listeners.

Real Bad Arabs is for free on YouTube.

It's less than an hour.

We have the link right in the show notes for you.

So there is no excuse as to why you wouldn't be able to watch the film in our next episode.

Of course, like I said, we're going to be digging more into that, hopefully having an actor also come and talk about his experience as an Arab in Hollywood and trying to secure roles.

But real quickly, before we wrap, I would love for everyone to go around and say how we can support you where folks can follow you and Things like that.

So I will start with Amira.

Where can we find you?

Yes, you can find me as Amira Outloud on most platforms.

I especially invite you to go to my substack where I break down Swana Topics and dive.

I'm constantly referencing Edward Said so I invite you to go follow me there.

Amira outloud.

Yeah, she also provide by the way, Amira provided a lot of research for this series so we will also have.

We have a link in the show notes to like her basically like library of like bibliography.

For real though there's some.

The USC Annenberg Institute has some really interesting studies of like recent decades of Muslim representation.

So yeah, anybody wants to go read up on that?

I found those really interesting.

And Munir.

So much of that.

So yeah, let someone else thank you.

To put a cap on it.

Watermelon Pictures, over 60 films available.

This isn't like a tiny library.

There's a lot of stuff to go through.

So watermelonpictures.com thank you.

And more being added all the time.

Awesome.

Yes, a watermelon plus for real.

Leith, how about you?

I guess the best way to support us is sjp ur on Instagram.

If you can help in any way, whether that be community support or we have donations in our bios.

Another way to support me is just try and donate to Arabs and especially those affected by the crisis right now and the terrors done by Israel and the US for example, donate to Lebanon, donate to Palestine.

Yeah, yeah Lena,.

Yes, heavy on that shp ur and we're very reachable so please just like send texts if you like DMS and for I guess me as a person, you it's Lena L I N A A B D O U just on LinkedIn and Lina Lartiste at l I n a dot l a r T I S E is like my I guess pseudo portfolio account that I need to update.

But.

No worries.

And like I said, these all, all the information, all the links and everything will be in the show notes or in the description of course, if you're watching on YouTube.

Mona, how can folks follow you and support you?

Yeah, so this has been amazing.

I look forward to actually getting to know all of you further.

Amazing job with the bibliography, Amirah, because I checked it out and it's really good work and I'll probably be adding a little bit to it.

Yeah, I think the best way to support any of us is just to continue having these discussions and having safe platforms and ways to continue and to do this work.

Whether it's again in academics, in activism, in the entertainment industry, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, like in so many avenues.

And to just make it easier to do that without, you know, all of the pushbacks and misunderstandings and the hoops that I'm sure my peers have experienced in their own ways that we've experienced for so long to reclaim our narratives and to just make things better overall for not only our individual selves, but for our people here and abroad.

It's very, very important.

Yeah, there's so many people doing this work that are not really recognized or known.

And it's not just about, you know, we want to give people their flowers, but it's also about educating people and moving forward and progressing in the best way again, considering the world that we live in today.

And you can reach me@mntahmail.com or when I'm somewhat active on Instagram.

I'm MN Najib N A J I B 7 and I'll work, I'll work on getting better at the social media thing.

Guys,.

Thank you all so much for being on the podcast.

Cannot wait to continue our discussions.

Listeners will, like I said before, have information about where you can follow and support each of our guests in the show notes or in the description below.

If you're watching on YouTube, wherever you're listening from, make sure you hit that subscribe button.

And if you liked tonight's episode, please give us a five star rating.

Leave a comment, let us know what in particular you liked about tonight's episode and also share this episode with friends, family, peers, colleagues, random strangers on the Internet.

Whatever you have to do.

But you can.

But it's important again that like each of you said, you know, it's important to continue having these conversations.

You can go ahead and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok threads, all the things.

You can also visit our voicesproject.com to find out more about what we do.

We also have a link there to sign up for our newsletter.

In our next episode, we're continuing our conversation, of course, about real bad Arabs.

And we will also be talking about again, links to how you know all of these stereotypes.

All of these depictions really like are linked to US Foreign policy and US Israeli interests.

And also talking about an Arab actor going for roles in Hollywood.

Until then, we highly recommend, like I said, I was going to say it repeatedly and I'll say it one more time to go and watch real that's R E E L Bad Arabs available for free on YouTube.

We have the link in our notes and or description.

This has been Jackie McGriff, the host of this episode for Representation in Cinema.

As always, thank you for listening.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.