What if eight months from now, your coaching business looked completely different from the one you’re imagining today?

When Emma Cowsill started her business, she was also making sense of her own ADHD diagnosis and, more recently, an autism diagnosis. In this conversation, she shares how she stopped shrinking herself, found a way of building a business that works with her brain rather than against it, and quickly expanded from 1:1 coaching into neurodiversity consulting, organisational work and collaborations.

Timestamps

00:00 - From Masking to Business Owner

03:15 - Finding Her LinkedIn Rhythm

06:00 - Structure Without Restriction

07:30 - Doing the Scary Thing

10:15 - The Daily Outreach Habit

11:20 - Building a Neurodiversity Business

15:20 - Deep Nurture and Collaboration

This episode is especially valuable if you’re starting or growing a coaching business and want permission to build it around your strengths, energy and way of working, rather than forcing yourself into someone else’s version of entrepreneurship.

Trust yourself, stay curious and keep taking the actions that allow your business to evolve alongside you.

Check out Emma's website

Connect with Emma on LinkedIn

Useful Links

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If you’re kind enough to leave a review, please do let Jo know so she can say thank you. You can always reach her at: [email protected]

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Emma, I looked up our starting point together, which was on your

2

onboarding form, and you wrote the

words, "Done shrinking into versions

3

of myself I don't recognize anymore.

4

Decades masking, exhausting,

and soul-destroying."

5

Tell me what was going on

for you when you wrote that.

6

Emma: So when I wrote that, I was just

starting obviously with your program, but

7

I was also just setting up my business,

so it was something that was brand new.

8

It was a huge turning point for

me because I had always prior to

9

that worked in other businesses.

10

I'd always been in corporate roles

and Love doing it despite what, what

11

that sort of, couple of sentences

sounds like in that onboarding form.

12

But actually, I really found a

really great rhythm with coaching

13

and leading people that I absolutely

love doing and then I applied that

14

across operations and transformation.

15

But I also absolutely exhausted

myself doing it, and it's only

16

getting answers much later in life.

17

two years ago, I got my ADHD

diagnosis, and actually last

18

month, my autism diagnosis.

19

So still looking for answers and

still getting more information.

20

It isn't a, a sort of one and

done, but it really helped me.

21

You can only see the connections when

you look backwards, can't you, and rather

22

than when you're in the thick of it.

23

But, looking back and connecting

those dots, I could see why I believed

24

there was a certain version of

success, and God, did I go for it.

25

I absolutely went for it.

26

I was very ambitious.

27

But the way that I did that cost

me so much in terms of my energy.

28

I would go a million miles an hour for

work, and then I'd crash at the weekend.

29

I couldn't really hold down

sentences or, manage much more than

30

that, and it took a lot out of me.

31

And I think part of the reason I wanted to

join the program was I have learnt that.

32

And whilst that is a period of my

life that was very, very difficult

33

because of that cost, I wouldn't change

it because I am where I am because

34

of it and I learnt so much from it.

35

And that's not just the things that I

know how to do, but also the people I

36

know and the network that I have and

the connections that exist for me.

37

So if I'm gonna build my own business,

that's really exciting, but we all

38

know ourselves that you default to

your normal behaviors, don't you?

39

Your habits and routines and, I wanted to

do it properly for want of a better word.

40

Like, how do I make sure that I learn

from someone who has built a very,

41

very successful business, take the bits

that, you know, I think copy with pride

42

and adapt the bits that maybe would be

slightly different for me and that's

43

why I wanted to build the business and

start the program at the same time.

44

Jo: I'm shocked that it's only

been, what, eight months or so

45

since you started your business.

46

You have done so well in terms of gaining

engagement, for example, on LinkedIn,

47

building your relationships with people-

Tell me more about how you have done that

48

? Emma: I think I have a

natural curiosity for things.

49

Or rather, I'm either

into something or I'm not.

50

I don't really have a happy medium.

51

Like, I've only got two speeds as well.

52

It's 1,000 miles an hour or

it's absolutely horizontal.

53

And I can go all in on something.

54

And wanting to understand

more about people.

55

Who else is doing what I'm doing?

56

Who's doing it, but doing it

in a slightly different way?

57

And, who's very, very similar to me?

58

Who's completely different to

me, and how can I understand

59

different things that they do?

60

And it just gave me a really

interesting playground to mess about in.

61

And I think anyone who gets their,

content strategy or how they wanna show

62

up right first time is an absolute hero.

63

Most people I speak to just say, " it

takes me some time to find that rhythm,"

64

or like you say, test and learn.

65

You'll put something out and

it, it's absolute tumbleweed.

66

And then you'll write something took

you about three seconds to do, and it

67

was more just sort of, "Blah, here are

my views on why it's really annoying

68

when it's dead hot," and absolutely

kicks off because there's something

69

in it that people really connect with.

70

And I don't think that's something that

the algorithm can predict or can sort out.

71

I think that comes from-

72

How things resonate with people and

how you phrase it, , it's your version

73

of, of what you're saying, isn't it?

74

I've also got to admit that there's…

75

I've spent days on LinkedIn and, and

couldn't tell you what I've done with it.

76

I think that there needs to be a balance,

and I think that's one of the things I've

77

definitely found helpful with w- being

able to spend time with other coaches.

78

We were having a sort of little, like,

accountability group catch-up, and I

79

just went, "I'm getting really, really

sort of stressed with, spending time

80

on LinkedIn " and she went, "Oh, I just

post them and never check them again."

81

I'm like, "I love that."

82

Jo: Yeah, I forgot you were

in a group with Barbara.

83

Yeah, she's amazing, and it's so good,

isn't it, to hear another perspective-

84

Yeah … because you're so in your head,

you think that that's the only way.

85

It's like today I had two other

podcast interviews, and both of them

86

thought that these were prep calls.

87

I'm like, "Do you think I'm

the type of person to prep?"

88

We're going for it straightaway.

89

So what did you find

helpful about the program?

90

Emma: The thing that drew me

to it was access to your brain.

91

Your blueprint of- what you did, how

you did it, what you learn, and I

92

know you're constantly refining it.

93

I think it should always be like that

because, you learn new things, and

94

you've also got a load of other people

in there that you can learn things

95

from yourself as well, which I think

is the beauty of having that community.

96

You can find millions of videos and

how-to guides on, setting up a business

97

and specifically, you know, a coaching

business, and I think sometimes

98

it's good to get lots of opinions.

99

But also, I think sometimes it's good

to have a consistent line through it

100

that then you can, adapt and tweak

and sort of pull things around.

101

It was also really helpful because my

brain is wired for novelty, so the things

102

that I think are exciting I will jump to.

103

And every so often I'd realize,

okay, that's great, I'm on step

104

six, but I've missed four and

five, so I'm gonna need to go back.

105

So just having that structure

and that reminder meant that I

106

could pull myself back to it,

107

and you're going, "Have

you done these other bits?"

108

And I'm going, "No.

109

No, I have not.

110

I have not done that at all.

111

Right.

112

I will go back and do that."

113

So yeah, I think that, that was the first

thing for me that- is just a gift to be

114

able to get someone's insights like that.

115

Jo: And my favorite memory of

you was doing your first LinkedIn

116

Live with Daisy, because you

just reminded me of me so much.

117

Like, I could see it in your face.

118

You were going, "What am I doing here?"

119

But the most amazing

thing is you did that.

120

So tell us more about that sort of

what probably was scary at the time.

121

Well, you tell us.

122

Emma: So we, we all, I think there

were maybe sort of 10 of us, went,

123

"Oh yeah, let's do a LinkedIn Live.

124

Like, that'd be great fun."

125

And Daisy, bless her, took on, "Right.

126

I'll go away and organize it."

127

And I came back the morning of to find

a message from Daisy that she'd sent to

128

me on the Wednesday evening saying, so

looks like it's just you and me, Emma.

129

Hope that's cool."

130

And I was like, "Oh, okay."

131

But then I thought, "Oh, what's

the worst that can happen," apart

132

from looking like a complete idiot.

133

But, I just thought it'll be fun,

like, we're talking about what we know

134

and what we're doing , and actually,

it turned out to be great fun.

135

Daisy and I just carried on talking for

ages and, yeah, really, really enjoyed it.

136

So yeah, nerve-wracking, but

again, ADHD, we love a deadline.

137

Like otherwise you will just sit and

perfect for hours and hours and hours.

138

Jo: Exactly.

139

And I remember you saying that you

enjoyed learning that you find it easier

140

to speak out loud than write perhaps?

141

Emma: The content creation I was finding

either came really, really easily or you

142

get in that sort of analysis paralysis of

perfecting and does this sound like me?

143

And, and part of that I think definitely

is from years and years of masking

144

and not wanting to be misinterpreted.

145

And I would have spent ages, you

know, perfecting a pack that was gonna

146

go out or an email that was gonna

go to, lots of senior stakeholders,

147

and what have I written that could

possibly be misconstrued in a way

148

that I didn't mean to come across.

149

And I've definitely carried some of

that through in writing, and I can

150

write the whole thing and just go,

"What am I actually … so what?

151

Like, what do I want it…

152

and it can just take me a lot of

refining, whereas I find when I talk,

153

it flows, but also then I know if I want

to go back and amend something, you can

154

still clarify quite quickly and on the

spot, and I definitely preferred that.

155

And the other thing is I think

it gets a bit more of you.

156

I'm sure you can see this, like, I

wave my hands around when I- I'm quite

157

expressive when I talk, whereas you're

… Like, a post is quite flat, isn't it?

158

It's, you know, words on a page.

159

So I think both have meaning and purpose,

but I definitely prefer speaking.

160

It feels much more fluid to me.

161

Jo: And in terms of the ADHD then and

business, that can obviously also be

162

a challenge because there's so many

exciting things we could be doing.

163

But one thing you did was set

yourself five comments, five

164

connections, five DMs every day.

165

How did you make that stick,

or have you made that stick?

166

Emma: So I have to find

something that's really visual.

167

So I've got, like a notepad on here that's

like an A3 one that I was marking off.

168

I do this an awful lot with my clients,

getting started is the hardest thing, so

169

make it the smallest possible commitment.

170

And actually, even on a day that you

feel rotten, if you only do one of those

171

things, that is still better than nothing.

172

And again, bit like going to the gym,

if I tell myself I'm only gonna go for

173

10 minutes, I will stay for an hour

'cause I'm there by then, aren't I?

174

So, that smallest, lowest bar I find very,

very helpful to just start the habit.

175

Jo: So you came into the program thinking

one-to-one coaching, and you have done

176

quite a few other things since then.

177

Tell us a bit more about how your business

has evolved, or where you're at now.

178

Emma: Yeah.

179

I came into it knowing and being actually

quite comfortable with the what I do now

180

might be completely different in 6 to

12 months, and I'm all right with that.

181

I think you can't possibly know

all the things, and sometimes

182

they evolve for the right reason.

183

But I went on to do the exec coaching.

184

They were real excited that they, we

don't have anyone who specializes in

185

neurodiversity, like this would be great.

186

We're, being able to cover that,

and that's what I went to go and do.

187

And it's grown into so much more.

188

I loved going over to…

189

I- i've got a lot of family in Wirral, but

being able to go and have conversations

190

with teams who are genuinely interested

in just wanting to know more and wanting

191

to do the right thing, but not make

a mistake and, I totally get that.

192

I've been a manager.

193

I've, worked with HR and I know as

both being a neurodivergent employee

194

and manager and senior leader, like,

feeling like you need to know all

195

the answers is really, really hard.

196

And you don't, 'cause no one expects

you to know more than most doctors do,

197

so you don't need a medical degree.

198

But there's definitely something

in helping businesses demystify

199

neurodiversity, and that's something

I'm really, really passionate about.

200

Because otherwise you end up with

unmanageable thousands of reasonable

201

adjustments and requests because people

know more about it, and they want to,

202

quite rightly want to make sure that

they can show up in the best way.

203

And actually, I found that my

background in lean transformation

204

came in really well there, because

let's not think about individuals.

205

It's absolutely right for your

one-to-one conversation about

206

how we support you as a person.

207

But if you think of it broader as

systemic design, inclusive design for

208

everyone, if you're going to change

something for one person, why wouldn't

209

you look at it for someone else?

210

Because working from home

helps me because it reduces

211

overstimulation, less distractions,

unless it's the dog barking.

212

But, why wouldn't you do that for a mother

so that she can go and do the school run?

213

She's got more flexibility then.

214

You can make sure that you don't need

to choose between one or the other.

215

Mm-hmm.

216

And I think just being able to have that

conversation and that sort of permission

217

to, what are the non-negotiables and

what are the things that you could change

218

if you could, and let's look at those.

219

Jo: Yeah.

220

So what has changed in your

business then, thinking back to,

221

the beginning of this year, roughly,

when you started your business?

222

What's different now?

223

Emma: What's different now is that

I have that mixture of B2C and B2B,

224

and- I really enjoy that variety.

225

I do also think you very quickly get

to a limit with one-to-one clients.

226

One-to-one coaching is incredible

'cause you can get to a depth.

227

You know, you kn- you

know people really well.

228

But there is a limit to how much you

can do and how many clients you can have

229

on at the time to make sure that you're

giving them the best version of yourself

230

and you're not stretched too thin.

231

So being able to do more stuff that

is one-to-many is also really, really

232

valuable and, and means that, you can

still have that impact and still have

233

that, opportunity for one-to-one.

234

, I think as I'm looking for what

235

model, I'm really, really interested

in how do I make that happen?

236

'Cause I think that's

your propensity to scale.

237

I wouldn't wanna lose the one-to-one

because I really, really do enjoy that

238

level of detail, and I think still

other opportunities come from that.

239

But also being able to have that

strategic thinking partner for,

240

right, what is the thing we're

gonna focus on and change that?

241

Just feels really valuable work.

242

Jo: Yeah.

243

Emma: There was a session you did on deep

nurture that I think really helped how

244

I thought about social media and posting

and, I think that visibility and showing

245

up piece is really, really important.

246

But without the right intention and

without the right balance, it can

247

very quickly be quite exhausting.

248

And that really made me think about, okay,

well, where are my areas of deep nurture?

249

Where am I really, really

investing in those connections?

250

And whether that's podcast, guesting and

251

email marketing and, different areas

that I can have that deeper connection.

252

That was really, really helpful.

253

It also made me think about I have got

so many like rich, valuable connection.

254

Not rich as in wealthy, although I'm

sure they are, but rich as in quality

255

connections already existing, that

I think there can be a, temptation

256

to just keep making more connections

and growing and meeting more people.

257

And that is helpful to a point, but

actually if you've got people that

258

you've started to build really good

relationships with, where are your

259

collaboration opportunities in there?

260

And I think that's the thing I'm really

excited for, to go deep with some

261

of those over the next few months.

262

We're looking at doing coaching sprints

that combines my sort of cognitive

263

frameworks and operational focus,

neurodivergent friendly, so works

264

for even the scatteriest of us, but

will work for everyone, and then her

265

marketing strategy and execution.

266

And, just really excited about that

because we've already had quite a lot

267

of interest in it, but it's really nice

to sometimes work with other people on

268

things because we spend so much time,

like you say, in our own echo chamber.

269

Jo: Yeah.

270

And you were a real community

person in the group.

271

So tell us more about the community

aspects or the relationships

272

you've built within the program.

273

Emma: Yeah, it's lovely to meet

so many people at different

274

stages of their business and

275

There's something really,

really nice about going into, an

276

environment where everyone's h-

everyone's so happy to help people.

277

There's no trying to get one up on other

people or, you know, there's a quote,

278

"We all do well when we all do well."

279

Like, there's enough

for us all to go around.

280

And I think that freedom of sharing

that's not without, I'm not gonna give

281

away my, you know, my trade secrets.

282

Everyone's just so willing to just

go, "Oh, have you tried this?"

283

Like, did that and I made a right mess

of it, but, you know, I can t- I can

284

show you what I learned," type thing.

285

And it's that sharing and humility

without ego that just makes it such

286

a lovely place to be, because I know

straight away whether or not I can

287

be myself in a, in an environment,

and whether or not I am comfortable

288

showing vulnerability or weakness,

or where I've messed something up.

289

And I think unless you've got

that psychological safety to just

290

go, "I've completely stuffed…

291

I, like, I don't even know h- where to

start with this," or, "I've made a real,

292

real mess," that's where you learn.

293

That's where you get the most growth.

294

And I think not having that, the

opposite is really dangerous.

295

That's when people stop.

296

That's when businesses shut down, because

someone's got stuck and there's n-

297

either not knowing where to go for help

or not knowing how to ask, and that's

298

the opposite of what you want, isn't it?

299

Jo: And so many business owners are

ADHD and running businesses, So tell

300

us more about how you handle all

of the shiny objects that come up.

301

And lots of people do ask that within

the program of like, "I'm ADHD.

302

Will I be able to manage?"

303

Emma: I think there's definitely an

awful lot of ADHD business owners

304

and there's that nature, nurture.

305

Is it people that are naturally drawn

to one thing or they just couldn't

306

exist in a corporate environment?

307

So come hell or high water, they

found a way to make it work.

308

But I think the thing for me

is there is no silver bullet.

309

There is no right or

wrong answer, I'm afraid.

310

But you've got to find what works for you.

311

And I know that's the easiest

thing to say and the hardest thing

312

to do, but it's paying attention

to the when does this feel fun?

313

When does work feel like, "I can't

believe I make a living do this"?

314

Do more of that stuff.

315

The other stuff that you feel that real

resistance to, is it a skills gap that

316

you can fill or can you outsource it?

317

Can you get something to

automate it a ways that you

318

never need to think about it?

319

Or actually, is that when you invest in

a VA or a, marketing expert or something

320

else, do you get your own coach?

321

Because I think there's always a, a

great need to, if you are going to

322

coach, to have coaching yourself.

323

And listen to those things.

324

So I don't tend to have

calls before midday.

325

My morning is my golden time.

326

That's when I get stuck into stuff,

problem-solving and fixing, and

327

I have client calls or, speak

with other people after lunch.

328

If I do it the other way, then I feel

like I start the day behind, and I've

329

done it before and I just know that that

doesn't work for me, and that's okay.

330

No one's telling me I have

to do it a different way.

331

That's my choice and

that's what works for me.

332

So I think find those things.

333

Find that golden time and find the

things that feel like dossing, that

334

you can't believe that you actually

get to make a living do that and

335

be able to do more of those things.

336

Jo: And it just reminds me of

you using the word playground

337

at the beginning of this call.

338

So I do find you do have to find the play

and the joy in what you're doing, and

339

experiment and feel a bit lighter with

it, which I've definitely seen you do.

340

Tell us more about how you've had

the courage to do those things.

341

Emma: Networking is not

something I do very easily.

342

I would normally have been the person

sort of hiding round the side or

343

looking for someone that I know.

344

So to walk into a room of people

I don't know is my idea of hell.

345

In some ways it is a little bit

easier online because you're

346

kind of all face-to-face and, on

your little screens and whatnot.

347

But I have to find things that, bring

me joy and if I go and it was a terrible

348

experience, then I won't go again.

349

But I'm looking for where

I can see myself, where I

350

can learn from other people.

351

Sometimes it's not looking for the

clients, it's looking for people

352

who can connect you to other people.

353

And as I say, I've, found people,

again, with great generosity, who

354

can just go, "Oh my God, like, I know

five people I can introduce you to.

355

Send me your details and,

like, let's catch up."

356

And again, I think it's going into quite

big networking events, I'm probably not

357

gonna follow up with all of those people.

358

But even if there's two or three

that we go away and we have a further

359

catch-up and that then develops

into something else, it's not

360

trying to spread yourself too thin.

361

Looking for the things that really

feel like a good connection, and

362

either something very aligned with

what you do or very different that

363

you would like to know more about.

364

Jo: Yeah.

365

So if someone is listening and maybe

they are in their job or thinking about

366

starting a business, what advice would

you give to that person looking back on

367

where you were maybe eight months ago?

368

Emma: To have a really good think

about what it is that you want to do.

369

Sometimes that's blank page stuff and,

if I could do anything, what is that?

370

Like your big sort of wish list

of, what would it look like?

371

Where would I live?

372

What would my day look like?

373

And plan that perfect day and week

because I think definitely, myself

374

included, and I know quite a few people

who have moved from corporate to running

375

their own business, you start with

the desire to have complete freedom

376

and to do things exactly as you want.

377

But you very, very quickly default

into the pattern that you used to have.

378

Do I always need to be

at my desk at this time?

379

Can I go to the gym in

the middle of the…

380

Like, those things that you want

to do, you have to start doing them

381

from the start because there's never

some magical period where everything

382

lines up and all of a sudden you cut

your hours in half or what have you.

383

Definitely think get yourself a financial

runway, probably more than you think.

384

If you can get 12 months expenses

saved, you are in a very good position

385

because it takes that pressure off you.

386

And I think just enjoy it.

387

What are the things that you

would take from what you're doing

388

now that you wanna replicate?

389

What are the things you are good at?

390

If you've ever done your CV the first time

over and you have to go, "What do I do?

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What do I know?"

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Like, what a-- that is an awful

thing to try and do completely

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afresh, but it's a really good

challenge to have a think about,

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what are all my transferrable skills?

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What are the things

that I could say yes to?

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Because like we've talked about,

what you start off doing might

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not be what you end up doing.

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So if someone says, "Oh,

would you be able to do this?"

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You can go yes.

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I can do that.

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Absolutely."

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Have a think about those.

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What do you do and know that fixes a

problem someone else would pay for?

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Jo: Oh, you summarized that perfectly,

and I think most people aren't really

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aware of that when they go into business,

that actually we're paid to fix problems.

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would you recommend the

program and if so, who to?

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Emma: Definitely to anyone who is

just starting out, but also, and I

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think again from the experience I

had with lots of other people in the

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program, it's not a one and done.

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It's-- you can come back

to this at any time.

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There's people in there that have been

running their own businesses for 20

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years and- still get so much value

out of it because it's not necessarily

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just about the business basics, it's

about the daily repeatable actions

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that make that business successful.

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But I knew I wanted to have something

from the start before I got six

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months into it thinking I can

wing it, and then going, "Oh, I'm

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gonna have to unpick all of this."

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I wanted to get that really

firm foundation from the start.

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Jo: Yeah.

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Totally.

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And you're so right.

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It genuinely is for anyone

at any stage of the journey.

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The stuff I teach is the stuff I need

to do at my stage of the journey,

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therefore, like, it's always moving.

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And I think in such a fast-paced world

with AI and just everything feeling

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like it changes so quickly, that we

just need to keep, finding new, exciting

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ways, keeping the joy, being curious,

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It's like we always

need to keep innovating.

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Yeah.

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And I think

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Emma: i- interesting point about the AI,

I think some people get really sort of

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hung up on it, but I don't think AI is

going to replace what we do anytime soon.

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It has a place in what we do because

it can be a useful tool, but what it's

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certainly shown me, definitely over the

last year, is that's when your human

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connections matter more than ever.

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Because the human experience is

messy and raw and very specific

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and very detailed, and those are

the things that people connect to.

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Those are the things that really

make something textured and

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interesting rather than beige.

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And That is where you're

going to stand out.

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It's also where you're going

to repel people, and you've

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gotta be all right with that.

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Jo: Yeah.

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And great way to finish, of like basically

be your messy- … imperfect self

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because you will pull in your people,

and that's exactly what you've done.

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So thank you so much, Emma, for

going on the journey with me.

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I hope you loved this

conversation with Emma.

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You can find her on

LinkedIn as Emma Cowsill

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Which is spelt C-O-W-S-I-L-L, and she

is an ADHD and neurodivergent coach for

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founders and leaders, and also does neuro

inclusion consulting for organizations.

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I hope you loved all of the

learning from Emma today.

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I particularly love how she was prepared

to go on the journey whilst, yes,

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wanting to know all of the things that

she needs to know, still being open and

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flexible enough to try her own ways.

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If you would like to join me

inside the Business of Coaching

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for a similar journey, then do

click the link in the show notes.

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If you scroll to the bottom of the page,

there is a short application you can

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complete so I can learn more about you.

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I will get back to you on whether the

program looks like a good fit for you.

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And like I always say, trust yourself,

believe in yourself, and be the wise

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gardener who keeps on watering the seeds

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Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

Thank you so much for listening to this

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episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.

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I have a mess of free resources on

my website joannalottcoaching.com.

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That's Joanna with an A

and Lott with two T's.

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joannalottcoaching.com.

467

And I'll also put links in the show notes.

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Let me know if you found

this episode useful.

469

Share it with a friend and

leave me a review, and I will

470

personally thank you for that.

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Remember to trust yourself, believe

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

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who keeps on watering the seed.

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Get into the arena dare, greatly and try.