In this episode of the eCommerce Podcast, host Matt Edmundson welcomes back Fara Rosenzweig, Head of Marketing at Zeals.ai, they discuss the evolving landscape of eCommerce, focusing on how new innovations in AI technology has revolutionised the space. 

Key Takeaways: 

1. AI in Social Chat Commerce: AI is transforming how eCommerce brands engage with customers by integrating with social platforms like Instagram and Facebook Messenger. Through AI-driven conversations, brands can provide personalised shopping experiences, helping users make faster and better purchasing decisions.
2. Influencer Marketing's Growing Impact: Influencer marketing is set to double in importance by 2025 for eCommerce brands. Fara highlights how leveraging influencers can build trust and drive sales, making it an essential strategy for modern online businesses.
3. The Power of Personalised Customer Experiences: The shift toward more personalised, AI-driven experiences is reducing the overwhelming choices customers face. By narrowing down product options through a tailored interaction, AI helps brands increase conversion rates and foster better customer relationships.

If this episode of the eCommerce Podcast piqued your interest make sure to check out everything that gets done over here on the eCommerce Podcast, a space dedicated to eCommerce Wow!

Fara Rosenzweig | Redefining the Customer Experience with AI

Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. This is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce. Wow. And to help us do just that, I'm chatting again, a returning guest, Fara Rosenzweig, Which we talked to, which, who we talked to years ago.

Now Fara has moved on from ManyChat and now is with Zeels, and we're going to be talking about eCommerce, how it's a little bit different, and how we can leverage all those little things. Yes we are, we're going to be getting into all of that, but before we do, let me just remind you, if you haven't done so already, head to the website, sign up to the newsletter, because all of the notes, the transcripts and everything comes straight to you.

Because we just, to be fair, we've spent the last 20 minutes just chatting, catching up, uh, before hitting the, uh, record button is, uh, is the Head of Marketing at zeals. ai. And she brings 20 years of content marketing expertise. And if you remember from the last time, uh, we discovered that Fara was an, or is, an Emmy Award winner.

Yes, she is. She has managed and built content teams to drive business growth and leverages the latest tech trends and social media. To craft compelling stories and strategies, marketing brands, websites, go to destinations, all that sort of good stuff. She is passionate about brand development and media relations, and consistently delivers impressive results and significant ROI.

And beyond all that, she's just a friend of the show. So Fara, it's great to have you back. How are you doing?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, sure. Why not? I'll just follow you around. Uh, do my, my, my kids call it my podcast voice.

So when I, when I hit the record button to record a podcast, apparently my voice changes. And Josh, my eldest, who has edited a number of the podcasts over the years, has learned how to mimic my podcast voice. That's awesome. And so, um, yes, uh, it's, uh, it's a fascinating one, but yeah, how are you doing? You doing all right?

It's been three years.

Fara Rosenzweig: It's been, yeah, it's been a few years. Doing great, doing a lot of things, you know, still a fan of the podcast. I've been following you along since the last time we chatted and, uh, yeah, just, yeah. I think watching technology in the world evolve, it's a crazy time right now, so, I know the past three years have felt longer than three years, let's put it that way.

Fara Rosenzweig: I think because there's been so much, just so much change that we've seen in our lives that, um. Yeah. It's been very quick, but then at the same time, wow, how much has changed in a few years.

Matt Edmundson: There's been a lot to keep up with.

Um, you know, Subly or any of these kind of sites and you can just set up a website. There it is. So that in a sense has become a lot easier, but at the same time, it's become a lot more complicated, you know, with everything that's got, I've got to think about 25, 000 different platforms. I've got social [00:04:00] media accounts coming out of my ears and I've got, you know, AI now thrown into the equation, which has totally turned the whole world upside down in the last few years.

So it does feel a little bit exhausting, I suppose.

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah, it's a little overwhelming. It's like when you go to a restaurant and they have like. 30, 000 menu items and you don't know what to choose, you know, kind of like that with technology these days. It's very cool where we are, but at the same time, it's overwhelming.

There's a lot of choices and how do you know that's the right choice? But it's also impressive that we have these choices and how far we've come, even just within the past five years.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's very true. There is that, um, There's that famous psychology experiment. I don't know if you ever come across it, the paradox of choice, where they, um, some researchers put out different flavors of jam in a supermarket.

Um, and they, they throw out these exotic flavors, the idea being that if you give people more options, more choice, they will buy more. And what they discovered actually was people bought less because of this paradox of choice. It actually causes you to make less decisions. Um, do you think that's happening these days with everything that's going on?

Are people just sort of retreating in on themselves a little bit and going, I just, I don't want to know, I don't want to know?

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah. It's a little overwhelming. It's very much overwhelming. And then you're, I don't know if experts agree. I don't know, but, uh, I can only speak from my experience. It's overwhelming.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I like that phrase safe zone. I'm just going to stick to my safe zone.

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah. I stick to my safe zone a lot.

Matt Edmundson: That's my safe zone. Do not enter. Do not enter. Um, I like that. I'm going to use that. That's really good. That's really good. So tell us about ZEALS, because you, when you came on the show, um, last time you were with ManyChat, and we had some great conversations there.

Um, and since then, uh, you have meandered through various different organizations. And for the last few months, you've been at ZEALS. What is ZEALS? And why are you there?

So, um, it's allowing brands to use social media, chat, and for eCommerce to engage, create a great customer experience, and then eventually help those customers make a purchase on whatever their favorite social messaging app is like Instagram DMs, Facebook Messenger, um, eventually like Zills will be on WhatsApp and TikTok.

Um, So that's where, that's essentially what Zeals is. We help eCommerce brands. Through AI and automation, create a really nice experience for customers. So

Matt Edmundson: that's different, uh, from ManyChat. I mean, it sounds similar, but I'm assuming it's different.

Fara Rosenzweig: Similar, but different. Zeal's definitely, Zeal's is AI based.

If this, then that type of thing. Oh, the

Matt Edmundson: automations. Yeah, yeah.

The person in the conversation to make a better decision for a purchase. Um, the goal is to help brands. Avoid that cart abandonment situation, um, and to, for brands to also understand their user activity or their shopper activities. So then they can provide the right products for their customers on the right platforms, um, and for the right age group.

So talk about different choices. Um, it's really interesting to see the different products that these brands are starting to go. I don't, I don't know if push is the right word, but yeah. Love it. You know, different products they're making for their different age ranges and then how they're using advertising on the platforms for those different products.

So, you know, the catalog might have 5, 000 products, but then through three, four questions, all of a sudden the user is going to have five options.

Matt Edmundson: Right.

Fara Rosenzweig: You know, makes it a little easier. It's not overwhelming.

Matt Edmundson: Well, you're reducing the paradox of choice, aren't you? You're taking it generally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's an interesting one, isn't it? And this is where I think AI is quite a fascinating thing to sort of play around with at the moment. There's a few areas where I think AI is quite interesting, and this is certainly one of them. So give me an example. Like. Um, a type of store this works well on, some stories that I guess you've heard and seen well, something that, you know, once we hear that story, we're just going to go, okay, now I get it.

I understand.

I guess one of our, I don't know if I, I can't say the brand, but one of our brands is a beauty product, um, and they have used our product for advertising. So they're creating really awesome, beautiful ads. Um. It's like a video ad on Instagram. It stops you from scrolling. Usually people will click on the ad and it takes them to a website, a product page or something.

So how do you know if that exact product is good for you? Or how do you know if that ad is taking you to a landing page and it has 50 different products, how do you know that those products are right for you? So, um, I can tell you from my experience, I've clicked on these ads a lot, and then I go to this landing page, see a few different things, and then I go to Exit out and I start researching.

We're here. You're interested in. Um, lip gloss, why let's get started. Let's help you find the right lip gloss, your color. So it, you know, the con, the one, the interaction to help the customer make the right choice and to the conversion rate ends up being like three times higher because you're keeping it inside the chat and then.

Um, of course there's, there's different ways from organic social, how some brands are using us. Um, And we have some really cool features coming out also that brands can use us, like, especially for influencer marketing. We have some things coming down the pipeline, which is going to be really great because eCommerce brands, I think, are really leaning into influencer marketing, especially in 2025.

Um, you know, we, we see so many influencers now, but it's just going to Expand even more because one influencers build trust with their audience and two people will buy based off of what their friends are saying. Um, so we're, we're creating some features down the pipeline that are going to help with these influencer marketing campaigns.

Matt Edmundson: That is very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking as you're talking, I remember a few weeks ago, I sat down, had some, having a breakfast meal with, uh, Jay from Bold Commerce and, um, He's a really interesting guy, Jay.

He's coming on the show soon. And I was talking to him about a beauty brand. As you were talking, I remembered this conversation with Jay, and I'm like, Jay, listen, if you were going to launch a beauty brand, how would you do it? Because their platform has access to sort of 50, 60, 000 online stores. I mean, it's just really, you know, some really cool data points that he's got access to.

Not a referral program, which is like a referrer friend. You know, you get 20 bucks and I get 20 bucks. Those things never work. But he runs through what he sees working as a referral programs. Um, and he ran through some numbers and they're all very exciting, but it was interesting how, um, with a beauty brand, when I was asking him this question, and to be fair, it was a beauty brand that we were talking through hypothetically.

I didn't talk to him about other industries, but he, he doubled down. You've just got to do the referral thing. You've got to do the, you know, uh, you've got to do the influencer thing. And if you can do those two things, it's like, let me show you some numbers. And they were very impressive, very, very impressive.

What these influence are doing, influencers are doing also, if influencers are successful or they look great or whatever, we kind of, we want to emulate that a little bit. So that's also why influencer program programming is really good. Um, yeah. And I was at a conference a few weeks ago and they said that in 2025, Influencer marketing for eCommerce brands will be double than what it is this year.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's really interesting.

What excites you at the moment? What's, what's floating your boat in terms of why you got back involved in the industry? What are the opportunities that you see? Um, I'm just curious, uh, what, what kick started this whole eCommerce revival? If that's the right word. I don't even know.

Fara Rosenzweig: I, I joke for my friends who doesn't like to talk about shopping

Matt Edmundson: you know what, I love that. Uh, I might steal that. That might become the new tagline of the show. You know, uh, the e-commerce podcasting, uh, ho e-Commerce podcast, because who doesn't like to talk about shopping? , Love it. If you see yourself right next to this, that little clip. Who doesn't like to talk about shopping?

Or hear yourself and it's next to a theme tune or something. Don't be surprised. That's all I'm saying.

Different genes. I mean, it's a lot of fun. So, um,

Matt Edmundson: I love that. Do you know my, my summer shopping? I went onto a website, ordered a pair of shorts and a new t shirt and I was done.

Fara Rosenzweig: I feel like I'm still doing my summer shopping and we're almost done with summer. But, uh, yeah, uh, no, but I joke. I mean, I just, I do like the eCommerce industry.

Yeah. Um, and just, You know, just the technology of it. So when I saw this opportunity, uh, I was like, Oh, I know exactly what you guys do. You know, I was like, I was at money chat. I understand the automation world. Um, but then when I saw the AI component, it's like, Oh, this is game changer. I think it's really cool how we can help brands make their job easier through AI.

And. And then also we, through this, we still get to talk about shopping. So, um, but yeah, just AI in so many fields is fascinating to me. I mean, I'll take a step back growing up. I think my generation has seen so many shifts in technology and. Technology is not even done evolving, but this is a big step into a new era of how we're going to be using technology.

Mm-Hmm. . Um, and then also the CEO. He's great, really smart. He grew this business over in, uh, Japan and made this a global business. So I was, I was very fascinated to see how Zeal L's product has evolved. And then when I saw the pipeline for the next five years, uh, I was like, that's very cool. Mm-Hmm. . Just the way that our product team is Dev, using AI to develop.

So, uh, yeah, it's very, very exciting. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I'm old enough to remember the Jetsons. That's probably the sad thing in all of this. Um, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's interesting that it's AI that, you know, that's getting you excited because I find at the moment. Um, far that people have either had enough of it or people are really excited by it.

It's kind of like, Oh, stop talking about AI. Um, I'm just going to crack on doing what I'm doing or actually now I'm really excited by this and they probably subscribed to 25, 000 different, you know, tools, all promising AI, but actually most of them don't use AI at all. They just, you know, some clever code really.

So how do you see it being different? How can we As eCommerce business owners sort of leverage that, what does that look like?

I mean, there's not enough hours in the day to do everything. So, um, eCommerce marketers really should lean into different technologies to help them be successful. And that's what AI can do. Um, You know, [00:23:00] if we're talking specifically what ZEALS is helping the eCommerce marketers, there are so many channels that these eCom teams need to be on.

Uh, you have your website, you have third party websites like Amazon, or you have, um, different online boutiques. You have in store. You have the boutiques in store, you have your, your showroom, uh, and then you have social media and social media don't even get me started. It's like a whole other world, but you have to be on all these different social media channels you have for us, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, um, even WhatsApp internationally.

It's the, it's the customer service. It's how the experience I walk in, they say, hello, how are you? I'm Amanda. What's your name? How can I help you? What are you shopping for today? Like everyone wants that experience. Everyone wants to feel special or get the help. Um, And so that's what kind of, what draws people back to these stores because it's a good experience.

Um, the chat could say, Oh, hi, hi, Matt. How are you doing? Thanks for clicking. What can I help you with today? What? You know, what are you shopping for? How can we help? And so it's really creating that experience where you feel like, Oh, this person, even though a lot of people I think are savvy enough to know it's an AI tool.

Um, I think it's helping create that experience, that emotional connection, like, Oh, they care about me. They're going to help me get what I need. So, um, You know, that's ultimately what eCommerce marketers really need to lean into is how do you make your, your end user, your customer feel special? And AI tools can do that.

What can you do to create a good experience for your customers? So then they're talking to their friends because like we spoke about earlier, people trust people. So it's kind of full circle. You're creating great experience. That person's going to talk to their friends. I bought this. I had a really great experience.

You should look at their site or go to their Instagram, check it out, blah, blah, blah. And so eCommerce people really need to think about how do we create that emotional connection with our users? Um, and how can AI help me do that? And that's one way our product is helping marketers, eCommerce marketers.

Do that.

Fara Rosenzweig: No, but I'm going to.

Matt Edmundson: Perplexity perplexes me in so many ways. It lives up to its name.

It's it's. It's really, really clever. Um, and it's a, it's sort of an advanced search thing. So instead of going to Google and saying, you know, um, Well, here, let me open up perplexity. I'll tell you, uh, what I, what I did the other day. Um,

Fara Rosenzweig: we're doing a live demo.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, they've got an app, which is great. So I can go to my library and I can see things that I've searched for, um, uh, in the past.

And I thought, this is a very fascinating question. So I typed this into Perplexity, and what Perplexity does is it goes and searches the web for me, and then it will summarize all of its findings, and it will give me, like, It just saves me going to 25 different websites, looking at what everybody said and then creating some kind of summary.

And there's so much you can do. You can upload files and all kinds of things. So it's like a very clever form of chat, GPT and Claude and Google. It's like they all got together and had a baby and perplexity was the outcome, which is just brilliant. And the thing that I like about perplexity. is just the sheer amount of time it saves me when I'm searching and what I hear you talking about in terms of creating this emotional connection.

Now I know perplexity is AI. I know that I'm talking to some machine but I talk to it like a person. I don't know what that says about me but I talk to it like a person and it It talks back, you know, when it's talking about Parkinson's and light therapy, it's kind of figured out, actually, this is probably quite an emotive topic.

Um, and so you can pick up on all this nuance and all these subtleties that just boggles my mind. And I. I don't know whether to love it or be scared of it, uh, if I'm honest with you.

10 minutes later, they're going to have an itinerary for you. I've made a reservation for you, uh, just based off of a few questions. So I kind of look at it as this is the concierge I never had, you know, in my pocket. So, uh, it is scary when, when you think about it, because. Well, for me, I think it's scary because we have our mind and younger generations are going to get used to this like instant gratification of information and are they going to learn how to do the research?

yeah, you get

Fara Rosenzweig: answers very quickly.

I look at it as it's saving me time. It's my personal concierge to get me. Whatever I need. I, I booked an international trip a few months ago and I asked it, um, I forget which tool I was using, but I said, you know, these are the things we want to do. Can you help me plan an itinerary? Within 10 minutes, I had our whole trip booked.

And it's going to be computers. But I now see how it's helped me. It's helped me in my personal life. It's helped me in work. And I think it's really cool how it's helping, um, just brands be smarter, better, and, Yeah. Make your end user feel special.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's one of those things that we have to keep an eye on it, but I think there are so many advantages you can get now using it in your eCommerce business.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: That, uh, that you would, it would make sense to do that.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And to understand that I think is, is straightforward. Where I, it's, it's fascinating. I was reading a report the other day about how, um, uh, how. AI girlfriends are now becoming a thing. And, um, you know, you're kind of like that's scary because actually people are putting off relationships till later and later, but that they're using AI.

I just go to perplexity and say X, Y, and Z, and it just does all the research. Well, it's the laziest form of research I've ever done. Um, but then again, I kind of look at people. I was in the states, the, the other week, and you know, we're traveling from A to B and the first thing you, that you do is like, well let, let's get the sat nav out.

You know, but what happens when the sat nav breaks and my kids are sitting and go, I don't know, I, I don't know. What do you mean? Have we got a map? A map? Are you mad? What's a map? And so it is , it's funny how we get used to this technology. Um, and I, and there are, there are elements of it, which I think are just scary and bizarre.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Wow.

That, that becomes a, that becomes something that I go, okay, how do I do that? Um, but unfortunately I feel like we need, we seem to have both ringing alongside each other at the moment, don't we?

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah. It is scary to think about people are using AI for their significant other. I mean, no one, no human is perfect.

So I think, um, I think that's just, the world has to kind of learn how to adapt to it. Then there's the positivity of it, but yeah, there is some sort of thing where we have to take a step back and go, we still need this human esque element. I don't know. Humans need humans. So the AI girlfriend thing seems fun.

Matt Edmundson: So it's interesting, isn't it? Cause how does this translate to marketing, right? So we've got an AI chat bot that's answering questions. Um, we've got AI now that can create content. Um, and it can create content in my voice. I've actually, there's AI that can create videos with my face. You know, it's at some point in the future, I dare say your, um, Your emoji or whatever it's going to call can talk to my emoji and that's the podcast.

is for founders or key people of influence in that business to be just all over everything, so people feel like they know you, right? To be that, that sort of face of the brand is maybe not right for everybody, but for most people, I think you can do something that's a bit fun with that. Um, how do you, I guess, how do you balance it, right?

Because there is both the human aspects of it, the personal, and then there's the AI side of things. How do you, How do you guys sort of draw the line? How do you do it personally in marketing? Where, where, where, where do you do it? How do you, I don't even know what I'm trying to ask, but you understand what I'm saying.

There's this sort of very gray, blurry line, how you navigate that.

So they're making it more community based. So you still have that human touch element and that's where you can meet other people. I think, um, actually I think I could be wrong, but I feel like, I think Lululemon years ago created this community. They, you know, they, uh, their stores, their, Their salespeople were not called salespeople.

They're educators. Mm-Hmm. . They had people from the community. Different instructors come and do different yoga classes during the week run groups. Um, they did different. They had, um, I remember one local store brought a local chiropractor and to talk about your. Spine Health. So they've made a community and then that's where you meet other people.

So it's more of an experience opposed to finding the right product and shopping. I think a lot of stores now are also moving away from having a lot of product in store. You go in, you try on one thing, you order it, it gets shipped to your house. So the in, I think the in store is still going to have that human experience, but it's more of a community base.

We, we need the community. I think we've, especially over the past, Few years being isolated for a year. Um, people realize how important community is. And so I think that is how e-commerce marketers can start thinking is building a community. Even though we're leveraging so many different tools, we're gonna build a community.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very, very good. For our listeners, I'm aware of time. I'm, I, I, I find this whole conversation fascinating and I, uh, I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

I've genuinely enjoyed it. And it's made me think a little bit, um, uh, outside the box, maybe some more on the whole AI thing, which is good, uh, which is very good. Where do you see the biggest opportunity at the moment for eCommerce? Operators, what's, what's the, what's the biggest thing out there, do you think?

Um, I mean, you could say ZEALS if you like, because obviously that's who you work for, but you know, that aside, maybe, what's the second biggest opportunity for eCom guys out there?

Uh, it's going to become more of a personal shopping experience, uh, where we have that concierge help us look in our closet, Oh, you're missing this. Let's make this purchase. So it's going to feel more. Uh, I think the technology is going to just make it better. So it feels more real life and help users, uh, yeah, I don't want to give too much away, but I think that, I think eCommerce people can just look forward to how the technology is going to evolve and feel like that it's real life on a computer screen.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Fantastic. I guess for me, I'm one of the things I'm really intrigued by is, um, things like Apple Vision Pro.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And what impact that's going to also have on eCommerce.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I don't think it will change anything tomorrow necessarily, but you can see how it's going to change things in the future.

That's the only

So

Matt Edmundson: yeah.

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah, definitely. This is going to

Matt Edmundson: be fascinating. That

Fara Rosenzweig: and

Matt Edmundson: LIDAR scanning, it's going to, you know, you won't ever get the wrong size anything again. You'll just scan your body and it'll go, this is the exact perfect size

for

Matt Edmundson: you. At some point what's going to happen is I'm going to scan my physique and a machine somewhere is going to make a t shirt which is the perfect exact t shirt for my body type and ship it out to me the same day and I'm going to be like, this is amazing.

Fara Rosenzweig: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I can definitely see it all heading down that road.

Matt Edmundson: Something like that. All the fashion designers out there will be crying. No, we need that individuality, which we, which we actually do. Yeah. It's one of those, isn't it?

For our, listen, uh, what's your question for me? So we do this bit on the show where, yes, I asked my guest for a question, but I don't answer it on the show. Um, I answer on my social media channels. My secret ploy to get you to follow me and connect with the eCommerce podcast uh, over on social. But first, what's the question that you want me to answer?

Fara Rosenzweig: I think it's a really cool idea. Uh, so my question is, if you could have one famous person dead or alive at your next dinner party, who would it be?

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. A famous person dead or alive at my next dinner party. Very good. Well, I definitely know my answer to that question. If you want to know how I'm going to answer it, then come follow me on social media.

Fara Rosenzweig: Um, so I'm big on LinkedIn.

I feel like that's the long lost, uh, social platform, but I'm big on Rosenzweig on LinkedIn. Um, and if people are interested to see how Zeal's is going to evolve and help. The eCommerce world, it's zeals. ai or zeals on LinkedIn or zeals. ai on Instagram.

Matt Edmundson: Okay, well we will of course link to all of those channels.

Zeals. ai, is it suitable for every eCommerce business or do you have to, is it really if you've got like a certain size, do we need a certain amount of data to make it worthwhile? What's the, what's the lowdown on that?

Fara Rosenzweig: If, uh, the lowdown, if you invest in advertising, we're a good product, a good fit for you.

Matt Edmundson: What about, uh, I'm just thinking outside the box here, what about things like charities? So I'm not necessarily selling a product, but I'm, I'm selling a vision maybe, and I, you know, I start in those kind of conversations.

Does it work with things like that? Or do you just guys focus on eCommerce?

Fara Rosenzweig: Primarily eCommerce, but that's an avenue that we're always looking at new avenues on how we can definitely evolve the product. So that's a channel that, or a vertical that we probably could definitely explore.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good.

Fara, it's been absolutely lovely to catch up again. I think next time, let's not leave it three years. Let's do this sooner. But genuinely lovely to catch up. And so thank you for coming on the show.

Fara Rosenzweig: Thank you so much for having me. It's great chatting with you again.

Matt Edmundson: Always, always a treat. What a phenomenal conversation, uh, with Fara.

And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Fara's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by PodJunction. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is the beautiful, the talented, the wonderful Sadaf Beynon, and equally beautiful, talented, and wonderful Jonah Prisk. Our theme music was written by Josh Edmundson. And as I mentioned, if you'd like to read the transcript or show notes, you can find them on the website.

Even if you've not got any questions, just go and say hello. People always love to hear from people. So that's it for me. That's it from Fara. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week, wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.