The episode delves into the remarkable yet obscure narrative of the 1910 football game between the Carlisle Indians and the Harvard Law School team, which serves as a focal point for our discourse. We explore how this intriguing matchup arose from the initiative of Hamilton Fish, a notable figure who sought to harness the athletic prowess of his law school peers, many of whom were accomplished football players in their collegiate careers. The episode elucidates the challenges faced by the Harvard Law team, including their eventual victory over the Carlisle Indians, a feat rendered more significant by the unique circumstances surrounding the game. This examination not only highlights the historical context of football during this era but also reflects upon the evolution of the sport and the shifting dynamics of college athletics. Through the insights provided by Timothy P. Brown of footballarchaeology.com, we gain a deeper appreciation for the rich tapestry of football history and the lesser-known stories that contribute to its legacy.

The topic comes from one of Tim's recent Tidbits titled: The Unlikely 1910 Carlisle-Harvard Law School Game .

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It was said back in the day that Pop Warner's Carlisle Indians teams would take on any challenges that came before them.

Well, they had one in one season that really was put them to the test.

And it's from an unlikely source that Timothy p.

Brown of footballarchaeology.com explains.

Tim's up in a moment to tell us all about it.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history.

Your host, Darren Hayes is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Hello, my football friends.

This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.

And welcome to another Tuesday where we get to find an exciting tale that comes out of the tidbits of Timothy p.

Brown of footballarchaeology.com Tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Hey, dear.

Look forward to talking.

And a little bit of a fishy story here.

A little bit of a fishy story.

Well, this is a fascinating one, and it's got a title that really can take a fan of football history to many different places.

What can you tell us about this one, Tim?

Yeah, so this one's kind of fun.

Just a couple different.

At a couple different levels.

So there was a time, you know, mostly like turn of the century where.

I know USC had a law school team, but, you know, they would have, you know, it'd be the Chicago School of Dentistry, and boom, they'd have a.

I just did a story on Chicago Veterinary College and their team.

So there's, you know, there were a bunch of them who played.

But when I came across the story, I'd never heard of Harvard having a law school team.

So what the heck is going on there?

They, you know, again, it's just I hadn't heard about it, so, you know, check into it.

And so what ended up happening was that there was a guy named Hamilton Fish, which is where the fishy thing came from.

And so he ended up being like the treasurer of the United States.

You know, he was like a big deal, but he was, I think he had been a captain of Harvard's undergrad football team.

Either way, he was a prominent player.

I think it Was, you know, first.

First team All American.

And he's kind of looking around and he's like, we got a lot of really good football players, you know, who currently attend Harvard Law, you know, and their careers, their college playing careers are over.

But he's, you know, kind of says, hey, let's.

Let's get the boys back together.

I mean, they were.

They were like three or four guys who had started at Harvard.

There were a couple of guys who had started at Yale.

There's guys from a couple of other, you know, different schools.

And so he gets a team together and they start practicing playing a little bit, and then they scrimmage Harvard's varsity and did pretty well.

I think they lost like six to three.

You know, they kind of kept score, but they played them, you know, pretty darn well.

So I said, okay, let's do this again.

So he challenges Yale to.

To a game, and they say, no, you know, they can't fit in their schedule, whatever.

So then he's trying to find.

He's thinking about, okay, who could I get?

Who could I challenge?

You know, who will take me up on it?

And so he challenges Pop Warner and the Carlisle team because, you know, combination of Carlisle just.

They would play anybody, anytime that's, you know, they just went and did.

They didn't care.

They'd take anybody out.

And then, you know, Pop always like to, you know, get as much money as he could, both probably for the school, and then he probably got some kind of cut.

So anyways, he agrees to add a game.

So basically, in the middle of November, this is like college football.

You can't do this anymore.

But so middle of November, he just inserts like a Wednesday afternoon game, you know, when.

And so that gave him five games in 22 days, you know, because then they.

They played somebody else, you know, the following Saturday.

So, you know, it's just one of those things you just can't imagine anymore.

But.

But.

So then Harvard Law and.

And Carlisle play.

Now, Carlisle didn't have Pete Hauser, who was their star quarterback.

He didn't play in the game.

And I don't know if they just held him out, if he's hurt or whatever, but.

But it ends up that a guy named Stephen, Phil Philbin, who had started Yale, he's the big running back for the law school team.

And he ends up kicking.

He drop kicks a field goal at one point for the only points scored in the game.

So Harvard Law beats Carlisle three to nothing.

And so then they're still not satisfied, you know.

And so Fish arranges one of these barnstorming tours, you know, before there were really barnstorming tours.

So he sets up, you know, three games, you know, one in, like, Nashville, Memphis, and then Baton Rouge over Christmas.

And so he ends up with, like, some of the guys, some of the Harvard Law School guys didn't want to do, you know, they didn't want to be part of it.

So it's like, part.

Some of those guys.

And they picked up some guys from Vanderbilt, and they picked up a couple guys from Michigan, like, I think Germany Schultz and some other guys from that era are playing.

So it's basically this mix of guys, but they still called them the Harvard Law School team.

And, you know, it just.

It didn't really turn out as well as they had hoped in terms of the size of the crowds.

And so they ended up.

They ended up being.

Being like, they won one of the games and they tied the other two scoreless ties.

So they weren't real exciting games.

And they didn't get as much money from everything as they expected.

So some of the guys had to, like, wire their parents to send them money so that they could get home.

They just ran out of funds.

So anyway, it's just one of those funny things about, you know, number one, just the thought of being able to just say, hey, here's a bunch of guys in law school with me.

We're gonna play a top 25 college team and then do it, you know, and then the fact that this top 25 college team is willing to play them, you know, so it's just kind of, you know, obviously, football's gotten more.

Much, much more complex and detailed than it was, you know, at that time.

But it's still kind of a.

Kind of a funny thing that they.

That they pulled it together and.

And did well, you know.

Right.

So, I mean, it's kind of, if I'm not mistaken, you know, Carlile, because, you know, Thorpe had to be at Carlisle then, I would assume, but he probably wasn't old enough to be playing varsity ball.

1912 Olympics.

Okay.

Yeah.

And Carlisle, you sit there and you think about some of these guys are.

They're that schools, like, starting, like, sixth grade or something, I think.

And they're.

Some of them.

They're on a football team, but probably not playing these varsity games.

But then you have a grad school team of guys that are probably in their mid-20s playing that are well educated at Harvard.

It's kind of a, you know, the polar opposites here of, of teams and just you know where of what they can pull from.

But you know, I'm sure they were all in their 20s or late, late teens on Carlisle that are the starters playing.

I mean the Carlisle.

Who knows how old some of those guys were.

Yeah, right, right.

They had, they also had guys like either they played at Haskell and then they went to Carlisle or the other way around.

But some guys got more than four years of playing time in.

Yeah, just some interesting times.

An interesting matchup that you would never think would, would work, but must have been a good game.

Only a one score game, so that's pretty cool.

Well, I guess you had to love, you know, punting and lack of scoring back then to watch football, so.

Yeah, that's for sure.

Well, that is another great example of a story that you find and you dig up, you know, do the archaeology on that's the name of your site and you, you bring it to us gridiron history fans and present it the way you do in your tidbits.

Now maybe you could tell the listeners how they can enjoy your tidbits and be a part of them.

Yeah, well, I can't tell you how to enjoy them.

I can tell you how to get to them.

You may not enjoy them once you get there, but.

So yeah, it's.

I write them up on footballarchaeology.com it's a substack site.

So you just go there, subscribe by submitting your email and then you'll.

Every time I write a new story, you'll get an email with the story.

Alternatively, if, if you don't want them clogging up your email box, then just you can follow me on Substack.

You can, you know, subscribe and then, but just not get the emails and then read them on the site itself.

Or you can follow me on Blue sky because I, I post everything out there as well.

So.

All right.

Well Tim, Tim, those are many great ways to enjoy your writing and enjoy these great football pieces of history that you've collected.

And we would really like to talk to you again next Tuesday about some more history.

And we thank you for joining us tonight.

Very good.

Thank you, sir.