Tourism business development experts Gord Knowles and Paul Pepe share their deep knowledge about the region’s tourism industry, and how organizations across the north are helping businesses start up, expand, and tackle common challenges like finding workers.

Learn more about tourism investment opportunities at the new Destination Northern Ontario Investor Website.

Gord Knowles is the Senior Coordinator of Economic Development and Investment Attraction at Destination Northern Ontario. 

• Website: invest.destinationnorthernontario.ca
• Twitter: twitter.com/DestNorthernOnt
• Facebook: facebook.com/DestinationNorthernOntario/
• Instagram: instagram.com/destinationnorthernontario/
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/tourism-northern-ontario

Paul Pepe is the Manager of Tourism Thunder Bay, a department of the Thunder Bay Community Economic Development Commission. 

• Website: visitthunderbay.com
• Facebook: facebook.com/VisitThunderBay
• Twitter: twitter.com/visitthunderbay
• Instagram: instagram.com/visitthunderbay

About the Destination: Northern Ontario podcast

If you came across a real estate listing for an affordable cottage resort deep in the boreal forest, would you be tempted to buy it?

If the answer is yes, then the Destination: Northern Ontario podcast is for you. By the end of this five-part series, you’ll learn everything you should know before buying or starting a tourism business in the north, and hear stories from people who’ve walked the path before and would do it all over again.

The podcast is hosted by Michelle Samson and produced by Storied Places Media for Destination Northern Ontario. Learn more about our podcast production services for economic development organizations at storiedplaces.ca.

As these communities grow, those who invest, In early

stages are really gonna be the ones to reap the greatest rewards, because

for a lot of communities, you're gonna be the first to the table

Hi, I'm Michelle Samson host of the destination Northern Ontario podcast.

This series is for the dreamers who want to start a new life somewhere

simpler, somewhere that for the price of a condo in downtown Toronto,

you could buy a cottage resort.

That would be your business and your home.

The trail to your new life isn't necessarily paved and easy, but it has

been walked before with great success.

We'll talk to some of those trailblazers later in the series.

But for this first episode, we're going to meet a pair of let's call

them trail guides who were born and raised in Northern Ontario, and who've

made it their job to help investors.

Like you find their way.

My My name is Gord Noles.

I'm the Senior Coordinator of Economic Development and Investment Attraction

at Destination Northern Ontario.

That's r t 13.

I am Paul Pepe and uh, I'm the manager of Tourism Thunder Bay, and

we are a department of the Thunder Bay Community Economic Development Commission.

Most of this episode is going to be about starting

a business in Northern Ontario.

But the first decision newcomers like yourself need to make is whether you

actually want to live in Northern Ontario.

It might seem like an easy decision when you're looking at gorgeous

images of a quiet lake in the middle of the boreal forest.

But there are a few harsher truths that you should know.

I asked Gord and Paul, what others in your shoes wish they knew before moving?

have a real winter

oh yeah.

Uh, yeah, it's, it, , it's definitely cold.

I think that's probably the biggest challenge.

It's one thing for someone like, Paul or myself who have been here for a long time.

, and were raised in it, then that's one thing.

But, uh, it can be a big challenge, I think, coming from an area where

perhaps the weather's a little warmer or black flies and mosquitoes don't exist,

we do have four very distinct seasons in the north, and,

and they're all very, very beautiful.

So we tend to attract people that, that appreciate that.

But For a lot of people that are international their first winter in

Thunder Bay can be a bit of an adjustment.

And, you know, they learned soon to get out and enjoy it and, dress appropriately

, and, , get engaged with the local community that's into skiing or snowshoe

we, or curly or hockey or whatever.

Um, and that is often sort of that, icebreaker, uh, pardon

the punt to get people sort of engaged in how to enjoy winter and

how to have fun in a winter city

in addition to the chilly weather newcomers are often surprised

that there's little to no public transportation in rural parts of

Canada, including Northern Ontario.

Thunder bay and the other urban centers do have basic transit

that will get you around.

But outside of those centers, a driver's license and a vehicle

is pretty much a necessity.

The next surprise is a necessity for some newcomers, but not for others.

Before moving to Northern Ontario, ask yourself.

Do I want to be surrounded by other members of my cultural community.

in an urban area like Toronto, you would have , a little

Italy or a, , Chinatown or, kind of that coagulation of,, people who, you

know, you, you speak the same language.

You might have come from the same general area.

You got that food scene that's there, uh, opportunity to celebrate

specific holidays that doesn't exist in some of our smaller communities

so we know that in some of the more rural areas, it can be a challenge as

far as feeling that sense of community because you might be one of , a small

number of people in the community from a specific ethnic background.

Some people.

Really lean into that and wear that as a badge of honor.

And so they become great ambassadors and, are working, could bring other

people to kind of bridge that gap.

But it can be a challenge, especially when you're so remote.

But, there's a lot of good work being done to help mitigate

that as much as possible.

And there's a lot of great community organizations available and a lot of these

communities to, really try and, build, inclusivity, uh, and ensuring that people

aren't made to feel, alone in their towns

That's, a big thing , a big part of what we all work on is,

is celebrating diversity, inclusion and equity in our communities

and really, , making rural and northern communities welcoming to,

to newcomers from around the globe.

And, uh, and we're seeing a lot of success with that.

You know, we have a local multicultural association, which plays a huge role

in helping newcomers get comfortable in the community and find their

way around and get to meet people.

And Thunder Bay's a very friendly and welcoming city that way.

The Southeast Asian population, the Indian population here in Thunder

Bay, has grown quite substantially from a few hundred to a few thousand

. And it's created a very welcoming sort

now makes it more comfortable for people from those countries , to feel at home.

And so that's the key is integration in the, in the sense that, getting to

feel comfortable getting to have those comforts of their own culture in the city.

while, exploring and experiencing the cultural, uh, foundation of

what the community's all about.

It's a very much a chicken and egg thing.

As we build our communities and we get new people moving into these

communities with diverse backgrounds, it, it becomes part of that community.

So we're seeing, you know, a number of small towns now that have new

types of restaurants, new cuisines,

, Places that you wouldn't

I, think of, you know, Indian restaurants popping up in these small towns.

And the communities just embrace them wholeheartedly.

They love it.

It creates that culture where an investor is coming in and seeing that there is

access to, uh, these restaurants, these businesses, these uh, niche stores that

cater to specific groups of people.

and, , and I think we're really at the beginning of that.

So if you're trying to get into business, now is an opportune time because we're

really getting in on the ground level, , at a time when there's very, very

affordable, opportunities available that probably won't exist in 10 or 20 years

because those who have gotten in, , will have, , really cornered that market

Yeah.

That's kind of one of the exciting things about living here and seeing the

transformation even in the last decade in northwest Ontario and in, in a city

like Thunder Bay, where you go it every day and you just, you hear so many

different languages being spoken from all over the world in a city of 110,000

people in the heart of the Boreal Forest.

And, you know, seeing people move here, you know, we've welcomed a lot of refugees

from Syria, from the Ukraine, who, just get into the workforce here right away.

And they get into the entrepreneurial streams here.

And, uh, they're just embraced by the community.

And it's so wonderful to see that, to be in a community that welcomes

people and where people feel welcomed

. You know, , the other side of it

lands of Fort William First Nation, the indigenous people.

, and so the international immigration is one part of it, but it's also

about reconciliation and it's also about building, uh, a stronger,

cohesive community that respects the indigenous cultural foundation

that we're in here as well.

It's about our intimate connectivity to the, to the natural environment

and nobody does that better than the indigenous peoples on the

lands that we share the land with.

And, and there's so many lessons to learn and there's so many bridges to build.

As we engage in meaningful reconciliation efforts that helps

build a stronger community as well.

Both Paul and Gord are from the north and they're

very committed to staying.

I wanted to hear a bit more about why that is.

What do you love about Northern Ontario, gord?

Not the winter.

You need to grow a beard, Gord.

You'll feel a lot warmer in the winter

uh, I'm, I'm Asian.

If I start now, I'll probably be about 80 by the time I get to your beard, so

I'm Italian.

I just started this

That's right.

Yeah.

You just sneeze and it pops right out.

Uh, No, it's, uh, what do I love about?

I, I love that it's a place that you can raise a family.

I love that it's a place that I can leave my door unlocked.

I love that it's a place where if I want to travel, a two hour drive to

Thunder Bay, which is a great urban area.

it's a 90 minute flight from Thunder Bay to Toronto.

The biggest city in this country.

Minneapolis isn't that far a drive.

Winnipeg's not that far.

Drive.

If I want to explore culture, I have that, but I also can leave those places.

Uh, and I don't have the same challenges that come with, affordability of, uh,

community safety, of access to service.

I can work in a place where I can feel.

, valued where, where my work has real impact.

I sit as a municipal counselor as well, so, you know, that opportunity

might not exist in a more urban area.

So I have this unique opportunity to, to be able to work at that grassroots level,

to, build a vision of, a great community.

Gordon and I are both.

Born and raised in the north.

And it would take a lot, I think, for either of us to leave the north.

We love it here.

I'm an outdoors person.

The lifestyle I have here, I wouldn't be able to get anywhere else in Canada

for what it costs for me to live here.

And so I think, it's something we love to show off.

We love to share with people from around the world , and, uh, you

know, when we have a cruise ship in port, a lot of the crew, for

example, are from the Philippines or from, other parts of the world.

And one of the things we love to do is actually like, drive them

around, certainly the passengers go on their tours and they're, they're

one part of the visitor experience.

But we get to meet these people from all over the world that are fascinated

by what we have in our backyard.

And I think that's important for us to remember too, is that what we have here

is something that a lot of people envy.

,we have clean water, we have clean air, we have lots of land.

, that's pretty special.

And I think that's, you know, what we work to attract is the kind of

people that, value that as well.

Yeah.

If what Gord and Paul are saying aligns with your interests and values.

Wonderful.

You should definitely keep listening.

Now that you're sold on moving here, we're hoping you'll be

interested in buying or building a tourism business when you arrive.

Let's get a high level introduction to the regions, tourism industry.

Northern Ontario Tourism I think is uh, bringing in people from

urban areas who are looking for an escape into quiet, into tranquil, into safe,

small communities, uh, where you're able to explore things in a way that

you might not be able to otherwise.

For instance, you might be the only person fishing on a given lake or the

only person, paddling, on open water.

So having those opportunities to connect with small towns and, and really get into

dealing with communities and, and the people within them on a personal level,

which is a, a, a real unique opportunity, uh, for people who are looking to get away

from, say, some of the larger urban areas.

We position Thunder Bay as Canada's premier outdoor city.

We are on the shore of Lake Superior, the world's largest freshwater lake.

We are on the edge of the world's largest contiguous boreal forest.

We are on the traditional lands of the Isna Peoples of Fort William

First Nation, uh, who have been on the land for thousands of years.

For us, it's much more.

Physical activity that you can do on, on the land and on the water and in the air.

It, it's about that intimate connectivity we have as a city to our

natural environment all around us.

And so, you know, we're known as an outdoor city for mountain biking,

for skiing, for the provincial and national parks that are in and around

the city for the water sports, uh, here.

And so on the leisure side, we're, we're really known across Canada and

around the world as that kind of place where that's very laid back, it's

really about connecting with nature and getting away from the busy life.

And Thunder Bay is very much as an urban center.

Uh, that kind of place where you can get out and play as hard as you want in

the outdoors, and then reward yourself at night with a incredible culinary

scene that we have here that people don't expect to find in a small city,

as well as the arts and entertainment scene that we have here as well.

So, uh, you know, we like to surprise people with that, that they can create

a very well-rounded experience here.

But we're also a center for sports gatherings.

We're also a center for, um, meetings and conventions.

Uh, as well as, you know, we're becoming, uh, much more well known

globally as a cruise ship destination as well with companies like Viking,

Hapag Lloyd, and American Queen, all, you know, uh, choosing Thunder Bay

to, uh, to, uh, make a port a call.

Or in the case of Viking Cruises, a turnaround port,

uh, starting in 2022 last year.

So, uh, you know, we have a very diverse tourism economy here in Thunder Bay.

In order to start a tourism business, you have

to understand your market.

So who are these visitors?

Because, uh, the r t o 13 is so large, basically you're

looking , at two different segments.

So when you're looking, Towards the east in 13 A and, and 13 B, you're getting a

lot more traffic coming up from the G T A just because of the proximity to it.

So people are getting more comfortable with the idea of, uh, driving outside

of the confines of Southern Ontario and doing, uh, 1, 2, 3 day trips.

Uh, That'll bring them, as far as, as Sain Marie on a regular basis.

So, uh, there's a lot of opportunities there that we're seeing with people

, taking, uh, the ferries, , as well as, uh, as driving the highways.

So, , you are getting a lot of, new young travelers who have never explored

Northern Ontario before, as well as, pan Northern and, uh, international travelers.

So we're seeing a lot more people, in the RV sector who are coming through, uh,

from overseas, who are bringing their RVs or, or renting them at, uh, at a major

destination and driving across Canada or through the US , to explore the area.

And then you get into 13 C, which is where, uh, thunder Bay is, and you,

get a lot more travel from Manitoba as well as, uh, from the US from,

uh, some of the Midwestern states.

Paul says thunder bay does get a lot of Canadians, but Americans

are a very important part of the mix.

We're a 45 minute drive, uh, to Minnesota from here.

Uh, so we do get a lot of Americans, particularly in the, in the summer

months, , who come up here for the outdoors, uh, fishing, , paddle sports,

hunting in the fall is, is a big driver traditionally for the American market.

But we get a lot of people that are doing the Lake Superior Circle tour, which

is, you know, certainly one of North America's premier driving destinations.

Uh, and so we have folks that are doing the traditional road trip around

the lake, and, we're seeing them in the RVs and we're seeing them, by

the thousands on motorcycles as well.

So, you know, ride Lake Superiors initiative we co-created about

a decade ago, uh, to really promote the Lake Superior Circle

Tour as a premier motorcycle destination in, in North America.

And so we attract thousands of riders, for example, uh, who

come through the city for that.

We're seeing a lot of the 20 something, um, you know, solo

travelers, the couples without kids.

Uh, we've got a number of families that come , , mainly to visit friends

and and family that live here.

Uh, and then we see a lot of the boomer market and, you know, 50 plus

that are road tripping, as well.

As Paul mentioned earlier, more cruise ships

are coming to the great lakes.

With the growth of that industry, thunder bay is getting more mature and

affluent visitors than they used to.

Most of those cruise travelers are American, but an increasing number

will be coming from further a field.

A German ship is coming this year and a friendship is expected in 2024.

But leisure.

Isn't the only reason people come to thunder bay, many come with a more

competitive or industrious spirit.

on the sports side, we host a lot of regional,

provincial, national events.

And on the convention corporate side, we are, uh, a gateway city right now to a

lot of the buzz that's going on in the critical minerals exploration world.

So lithium, uh, you know, copper, uh, nickel, all those

things are in high demand.

For, uh, electrification of vehicles.

And a lot of that exists in the Northwest Ontario region.

So thunder base are that base camp for a lot of those companies to,

um, to set up shop and, and on the exploration engineering side.

And they come from all over the world to work here as well.

So, uh, the interesting thing with our corporate visitors that,

they're also our leisure visitors.

So a lot of them have downtime, you know, they're spending money in our

restaurant scene, they're going to events, they're going to attractions.

And so we tend to look at things very holistically there.

, and then we're also a gateway city

indigenous communities throughout , Northwest Ontario who come to Thunder

Bay for retail, for healthcare, for education, and for business as well.

So we enjoy an incredibly diverse domestic, uh, US and overseas, uh,

clientele here who comes to Thunder Bay for any number of reasons.

That's an overview of who's visiting Northern Ontario and why.

If that sounds like the kind of clientele you'd like to serve.

I have good news for you.

There are hundreds of businesses already known and frequented by these

visitors that are for sale right now.

These businesses for the most part aren't for sale because they're failing.

They're for sale because the owners are ready to retire, but

don't have anyone to take over.

It's a great opportunity to get your foot in the door without

building a business from scratch

I asked Gord to tell me more about these businesses.

A lot of the businesses have been owned for, 25 years or more.

So, uh, without succession plans in place, there's a lot of opportunities

for new, uh, new entrepreneurs.

So you're looking at resorts, Restaurants, service stations, complimentary

businesses, uh, hotels, motels, and then opportunities to, uh, to get

new businesses, , started as well.

So there's really a wide range of, , things that are available, from the

urban right down to, uh, to small highway, uh, communities, as well as,

, things that are off the beaten path.

Places that are available as is and can be taken over tomorrow or developing

into brand new businesses or repurposing of existing buildings to fit a new and

changing community, which we're seeing a lot of, uh, as Paul had mentioned,

, the mining and exploration has really changed, , the culture and, and the

demographics of some of these communities.

So, um, some of these buildings that might have, uh, had say a hardware

store at one point can be repurposed into, uh, into something that's a

little more tourism conducive, like a cafe or a restaurant of some sort.

In thunder bay, the trend of buying businesses

started about a decade ago.

Paul says newcomers and their fresh ideas have transformed the city.

Young entrepreneurs, born and raised here in Thunder Bay,

have moved back because they saw an opportunity with cheap real estate

and, uh, an an evolving community.

A community that was, growing And so, that has really driven a lot

of innovation in our hospitality sector, you know, predominantly in

our culinary sector and our retail.

Um, and then also on the immigration front, you know, we've, uh, we've

seen, uh, a growth of international immigration predominantly from Southeast

Asia, , moving here to Thunder Bay and, and a lot move here for school.

You know, we have two post-secondary institutions here, Lakewood

University and Confederation College.

And a lot of them stay.

They fall in love with the city.

They fall in love with the clean air and the clean water and the people here and

the friendliness, and they set up shop.

And so they're driving a lot of that investment as well.

But opportunities still do exist.

. So right now, you know, there's probably uh, you know, 20 to 25 hospitality

and tourism related businesses actively being marketed in the city.

And there's probably others that are not, that are sort of quietly for sale, uh, you

know, as, as owners are looking to retire and they're looking for succession plan.

How much are these properties going for?

you know, well, certainly

With average home prices in Thunder Bay at about $330,000.

Uh, certainly much more affordable than other markets in Ontario.

And that certainly has fluctuated with, you know, what we've seen,

across North America for housing prices over the last few years.

But it's still a, an affordable city to live in.

And then on the business side, we, we have some hospitality businesses,

some restaurants, that you know, are in a leased or rented space.

And they can be had for, a little over a hundred thousand dollars, for

example, for a new business opportunity, right up to, gas bars and hardware

stores and bait shops really catering to the transient tourism market.

, some of them are going to 1.5 to 2.5 million.

Um, and then the hospitality sector you know, we've seen motels for

800,000 go on the market right up to, , major hotels in the millions.

Gord, are you seeing those, um, prices track across the region?

Yeah, absolutely.

, if you get into some of the smaller communities and, , sometimes the

prices are even lower than that.

, one of the advantages that we're seeing, , with the resorts that are coming up for

sale is not only are you purchasing a business, but you're purchasing a place

that you can, , live in, uh, as, as well.

As how your family live in.

So, for the cost of, say, , a condo, uh, in, a larger urban center, you could

purchase an entire, home as well as your livelihood, live right on location , and

have, , your extended family working in some of these businesses as your staff.

Right, and some of the opportunities in buying some of

these businesses for newcomers is permanent citizenship, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

If you're looking for a, a path to citizenship, uh, this can be one of

the, uh, most efficient ways to do that.

In that you have an opportunity to, , have a business.

You have an opportunity to build your livelihood, , to employ family

and friends, , as well as, yeah, having a, a residence to live in

and, and build up that equity.

We're seeing, , people now, 10 years ago who had done this, , have grown their

business, , Gotten their citizenship and, and either moved on to another

business or expanded the business or, or purchased additional businesses.

So they've become community leaders and, this was a very

effective, efficient path for them

Hopefully all this has got you excited and ready to look at properties.

Online real estate listings.

Like the MLS are great places to browse and get an idea of what's available.

But another great resource is the website that DNO just launched specifically

for investors and businesses.

Invest dot destination, Northern ontario.ca.

This website, doesn't just have listings.

It has all the information you need to start.

Run and grow your business specifically in the north.

All explained as clearly as possible

We wanna be able to provide that information out there in

a way that people can understand it.

and we also want to really cater that information , to new Canadians.

So having that accessible , in the languages, they might be more familiar

with in terms that , are a little easier to access because we know how difficult it

can be , to get into business development and understand what's happening.

We're people who live it our whole lives.

And, and sometimes it can be a challenge.

So for people who are just getting started, uh, having those tools available

in a way that they can understand and, and people that they can get ahold of

when they need it, is a really important.

Whether you're buying an existing business.

or planning to build one from scratch.

Understanding what visitors to Northern Ontario need and want.

We'll make sure it's as successful as possible.

Gord tells us where you can find that information, particularly

for the rural parts of the region.

I really suggest that people go and they speak to a particular

community futures offices because they work really closely with, , the

existing businesses, , as, , not only business advisors, but as lenders to

give, , a real on the ground assessment of what's needed in the community.

So they speak , with their stakeholders on a daily basis , and have that

chance to see, okay, , maybe we've got capacity for another restaurant, , or

we've got capacity for, a new gas bar, or, uh, there's potential here for a

hotel and this is what's on the market.

, it is very different depending on where you go.

And, uh, even amongst the urban areas, I'm sure there's, there's different needs,

uh, say from a Thunder Bay to a North Bay where, , the market is different , and

the opportunities and the challenges are, are very unique to each community.

So what are thunder Bay's unique opportunities.

Paul has the scoop.

Here in Thunder Bay, you know, we've seen an, an enormous growth in the

culinary scene over the last decade and a really strong farm to table scene emerge.

So we've seen that grow.

There's certainly new opportunities that continue to exist in the culinary scene

. Um, on the outdoor attraction

services, for ground transportation services, we have a gap.

, we need more accommodation rooms here in Thunder Bay as well.

Very unique accommodation rooms.

We have, , demand and inquiries for more sort of upscale and lakefront,

uh, accommodation options as well.

Whether you're reaching out to DNO a community futures

office, a small business enterprise center, or the thunder bay community

economic development commission.

you can expect to speak with a friendly and knowledgeable person

who'll guide you They can even give you the kind of data and research that

will help you build a business plan.

But more than just research and advice and data these organizations

can support you with funding as well

Thunder bay collects a municipal accommodation tax and half of

that fund is earmarked for tourism promotion and development They

collected $1.2 million in 2022.

and over 80% of that was given to companies and organizations

to create new visitor experiences

One of the things that we're very proud of here in Thunder

Bay is that we, , invest and we reinvest a significant amount of

what is collected in the municipal accommodation tax locally each year.

we've been able to, to kickstart, um, you know, an indoor, uh, skate and BMX

park., An outdoor water park on one of our urban reservoirs . And other

initiatives as well, , that can help kickstart new visitor experiences,

whether they be not-for-profit, whether they be, uh, for-profit.

Now with our Tourism Development Fund through the Economic Development

Commission, we provide non repayable grants to, to private sector

businesses, uh, that want to either start up a new tourism business

or expand their existing business.

And really the objective of that fund is to.

Increase , the number of, overnight visitors to Thunder Bay, increase the

length of stay here in the community and increase the economic yield that

they leave in the, uh, in the city.

So those are, the three major objectives that we work with when we are

evaluating, , applications from private sector and , from even not-for-profit

tourism operators as well that are looking to do something a little different.

, it's overseen by an eight member

from our chamber of commerce, our hospitality sector, our restaurant sector.

Uh, we have an indigenous representative as well to really

try to help grow indigenous tourism development opportunities here , in

the local tourism ecosystem.

So, you know, our fund is a really great tool.

We like to consider it a best practice in Ontario, uh, for the fact that we are

able to reinvest hotel tax dollars into regenerate new hotel tax revenues by

supporting initiatives and businesses.

So, often with that.

that Grant, because it's non repayable, it can actually count as

owner equity when they are going to a commercial lender for financing.

So we like to see leveraged financing.

We will consider, up to 33% of their total eligible costs, for grants.

When they're putting their business cases together.

So, you know, that is, is pretty substantial.

How substantial, pretty substantial, especially if you

consider how the money they awarded was further leveraged.

20 to 40,000 was certainly , the average grant that

was given to some of these business initiatives that, got up and running.

And you know, we have funded some strategic investments, um, in terms

of major capital for, expansions to the local professional theater, uh,

house and, uh, the architectural design phase of a potential new

science center here for the city.

Last year in 2022, We funded 37 projects, um, 1.5 million in funding allocated

that, that leveraged another 8.4 million from other sources, including banks.

The federal and provincial governments are financially supporting

Northern businesses to mostly through the federal economic development

agency for Northern Ontario, AKA fed.

And through the Ontario ministry of Northern development.

Accessing that funding might be easier than you think, even if

you're a recent immigrant or refugee.

There's great officers working in many of our

communities in northern Ontario.

, and they really work hard to ensure that, , People who inquire with them

have that opportunity , to access very unique funding that doesn't exist

really anywhere else in the world.

, a lot of that, , with a focus on tourism development and bringing new Canadians

and new entrepreneurs to Northern Ontario.

most places like to see , a 25%.

, Investment from the entrepreneur.

There always needs to be some skin in the game.

But , that being said, um, there's very few options that are available

outside of Northern Ontario where you are looking at perhaps up to

three quarters of that investment covered through, , grants and loans.

These loans are low interests.

And Oftentimes they're better than, uh, can be offered through traditional means.

So there's real opportunity there , , for accessing capital

that might not exist otherwise

we're dealing with, uh, a number of people who are coming from challenging

places like the Ukraine, who are looking at, at establishing a business.

So, uh, they don't have the collateral in place because, , they

just don't have collateral.

They've come to Canada and they're, come with incredible skill, incredible

ability, um, but they don't have those pieces in place through traditional

means to, uh, secure a mortgage to get a business up and going

. So there's real local representation

have access to key unique funding that will allow them to, get started and then

to access funds with, , organizations like, Community Futures with, uh,

some of our local credit unions.

Uh, really unique solutions that.

Allow people to get their businesses really up and running, because

that's the hardest challenge right now is access to capital.

And not just access to capital for startup, but for expansion, because the

tourism sector is seen as more volatile than, say, a brick and mortar store.

So being able to access funding from a number of different sources and leverage

that and, and stack those monies on top of each other, it makes it possible for

some of our businesses to really grow and take it to that next level and ensuring

that the product that we're delivering in Northern Ontario isn't just a product

that's good enough it's a product that's good enough on the global stage because

we know that, the global traveler can go anywhere they want in the world.

And we want them to make sure that when they're here in Northern Ontario that the

experience they're getting is, , number one, and exactly what we're advertising

through our great marketing tools.

So are these mostly loans or grants or a mix of both?

It's a combination.

Uh, it depends on where, where you're looking.

, and it depends on what becomes available.

A lot of the programming that's available is very specific to,

, perhaps a point in time or, uh, specific pocket of funding that might

come out from a particular ministry.

So It really varies depending on what you're looking at.

So that's why it's great to keep in contact with , your community

stakeholders, to see what's available and what's coming out, down the pipeline.

, Michelle: a hot topic, in

availability of workforce and talent.

Can you guys talk about, what you're doing to help businesses fill those gaps?

Yeah.

Right now at d and o one of our pillars that we really focus our

attention on is workforce development.

, uh, , there's a number of staff working for d and o and their specialty.

Is to build tourism capacity, because we know that there's a huge,

uh, workforce shortage right now.

Brought further along by the pandemic in that, uh, , a number

of people left the sector.

Now that the borders are reopened, the, those markets started to come back, but

the staff in the meantime have, have gone on to new opportunities because there's

so much out there or they've retired.

So, uh, a lot of the programming that we're focused on is bringing

new people into the tourism field through micro-credentials.

We know that the need for.

Not only people, at the housekeeping level, but at the management level,

is, is a key piece to making sure that our hotels are continuing

to run, , smoothly , and with the level of service that people expect.

So, uh, we're working with the hotels associations and a number of other

RTOs in, uh, Ontario to provide very sector specific training.

We work a lot with our partners at otec, , as well as, through the

colleges and universities, uh, in Northern Ontario to ensure that we

are working on programming that, , really starts to address those gaps.

A lot of our key work is focusing on people coming into the workforce,

uh, new Canadians as well as people coming outta high school.

And, and trying to reiterate the fact that tourism isn't just an

entry level position, it's a position that can be a lifelong endeavor.

Uh, and that we have dozens of stories of people who have started as a guide

and eventually down the road, ends up owning a resort through a lodge because

they've fallen in love with the property.

They've gotten that passion from being onsite.

It's proven to be profitable to them.

And, um, there's that opportunity there when it arises to

eventually take over the business.

So, uh, a lot of the work we're doing is just trying to ignite that passion.

The city of thunder bay is also taking steps to fill workforce gaps.

Here's Paul.

The Thunder Bay Community Economic Development Commission,

, manages the, uh, Rural Northern Immigration, uh, pilot, , for not only

the Thunder Bay area now, but for most of northwestern Ontario communities.

We've been very successful in Thunder Bay in terms of attracting, uh,

immigrants, uh, from around the world, predominantly, uh, Europe, Southeast

Asia, uh, into a number of positions, not, not only in tourism, but in

other sectors as well here in the city.

We really do hope, and we really do advocate, uh, for that program

to become permanent because it really does make a difference for

rural and northern communities to be able to attract immigration.

And, uh, that's, uh, what northern and rural communities need to grow is they

need immigration and, and that's so critical to, to grow in communities.

Um, but here in Thunder Bay, you know, we see, we see the, future needs of the

workforce coming from three areas, uh,

one of them is our post-secondary institutions.

Uh, we have a university and a college that both are very aggressive at

attracting international students.

And those students frankly saved our retail and saved our hospitality

sectors over the last few years.

And so continuing to connect them with opportunities, getting them to

stay after university and college, getting them to, , make a home here

in Thunder Bay is really critical.

And we're very fortunate to have a, an incredibly diverse and

multicultural community here.

That, uh, you know, is, is very welcoming for international students

and, and a number of them do stay and, uh, and do enter the workforce and do

become business owners as a result.

Um, also, uh, we have a very, very large indigenous population

throughout, uh, northwest Ontario.

, and in a lot of cases there's a lot of opportunities to support

workforce development in indigenous youth and indigenous communities.

And then getting into, into the schools.

We have to reach out to youth and we have to get in, you know, not

just the colleges and universities.

We have to start talking to kids in high school.

Uh, you know, last week I did presentations to a bunch of grade three

classes at a public school on tourism.

And that seems really weird.

And it's like, well, are they even serious at that level?

But they are, any opportunity we have to get youth in our communities and get

youth in the north excited about their communities and what the potential is

for both careers and entrepreneurship, that's what we need to do.

Yet, another way that tourism businesses in the north get supported

is through marketing organizations across Northern Ontario are working

together and pooling their resources to bring visitors into the region.

. Here's a look at what

We focus a lot on content development, a lot of digital content.

We work with a lot of, uh, um, content creators to help us tell our stories.

We, invest quite a lot in bringing them into the community.

So show them what we have.

They create the blog content, they create the editorial, the video, the

photo assets that, you know, reach an audience in a whole new way.

And I think reach a consumer in a much more, um, uh, authentic way in what

is a very, very crowded marketplace

with conventions and sports, it's just about bidding.

We're being very, very aggressive in going after convention and sports bids and, we

utilize our tourism development fund as a tool to incentivize, , sports groups

and conventions to bring , their meetings and events to Thunder Bay as well.

travel trade, international travel trade.

You know, we work very closely with D N O.

Destination Ontario, destination Canada, And, you know, we even

work with our partners, uh, on the US side of Lake Superior.

We belong to a number of binational marketing initiatives where we put our

dollars in the pot together with our American counterparts, , to attract

more people to the Great Lakes region.

And partnerships right now is so critical in destination marketing, uh, to be able

to, to reach more people more effectively.

I couldn't agree with more with, , what Paul said, like I

think that's something Northern Ontario does so well, is, working as partners.

I've known Paul for a number of years and, uh, he's always been a firm supporter

him and his entire team of ensuring that, , Northern Ontario is, building

as a tourism destination because what's good for my small community is ultimately

good for his urban community as well.

a lot of the work that we're doing at D N O is, is very, Similar in, that we're

looking at new ways of doing things, and taking a look at how can we engage people

Because it's one thing for us to put an ad out and tell people world the world's

best, but, , we live in an age now.

If you're not the world's best, it's pretty easy to

discover that very quickly.

So we wanna really focus on what we do well, building that capacity, building

things up from the ground so that when we do come out and say that we're the

world's best, that we really mean it.

And, and we have the tools and the, testimonials from real travelers who

have experienced it, people who have lived it, people who have made that

choice to come out to an area and spend their hard-earned money that they're

coming out and having that experience and they're relaying that to the world.

, so we're really working, As Paul has said, on those storytelling pieces.

Working with our DM OS to make sure that, , those experiences at a particular

business are told, and really showcase what they're doing for the world.

Cuz that's, I think, really important moving forward is people

will travel to destinations if there is a point of interest that

really captures their attention.

, often we're finding that people are coming to a community for a specific experience.

And then how do we, how do we package that together with, uh, what's available

as well in the surrounding area.

One final question.

, as tourism leaders, you're seeing the trends, you might even see some exciting

things that are coming down the pipeline.

Is there anything in your crystal ball that, potential

investors should know about?

for us in the city, you know, we're really excited by

where cruise shipping is going and where it has the potential to grow.

People from around the world are starting to recognize Lake Superior and the, and

the Boreal Forest of the Northwest region.

And I think, you know, in the pandemic, I think people really

kind of got back to basics.

People got away from their busy hustle and bustle of big city living.

And people started to kind of understand and appreciate rural, uh, more laid

back, more leisurely destinations.

And, , and I think investments will continue to grow for people that a, are

looking for that lifestyle change, uh, and wanting to own a business and wanting to

own a small lodge or a glamping outfit or something really cool, in the northwest.

And I think consumers are finding that too.

I'm very excited about what the potential is for us here in, in Thunder Bay and

Northwest Ontario about, uh, about the future of tourism on a global scale.

because I think we have a lot going for us.

You know, one of the things, that came out of the, uh, the indigenous, tourism

Association of Canada's is you know, national Indigenous Tourism conference

was, you know, they want Canada to be a global leader in indigenous tourism.

And I know here in Thunder Bay, we wanna be a global gathering place for indigenous

peoples from around the world to come and gather and share knowledge on education,

on life sciences, on business, on culture.

And I think that's, that's something that the world wants more of.

They want that, that authentic connectivity.

And, uh, I think we're well positioned in Northern Ontario to do that and, and

to be globally multicultural and still really, really celebrate our roots too.

I, I think it's, it's such an exciting time to be in the north.

I share Paul's sense of, , optimism about the way things

are going in Northern Ontario.

I think.

We're an undiscovered gem.

Um, there's a lot of happenings and it's not just in the tourism sector.

A lot of, I think our good fortunes are gonna be tied , , into electric

vehicles, , uh, into resource development.

A lot of the work that we're doing in the tourism sector, uh, for these smaller

communities is to help avoid that kind of, that boom and bust cycle . As these

communities grow, like I said, those who invest, In early stages are really

gonna be the ones to reap the greatest rewards, because for a lot of communities,

you're gonna be the first to the table in any sort of sector that you're taking

a look , at developing a business in.

I think, , the tourism sector is just gonna grow in leaps and bounds

because there is an appetite.

People want to explore Northern Ontario.

People want to get out of the cities.

People want to experience tranquility, quietness, to be able to work out at

a, quiet lake, uh, where you're sitting on a dock with a laptop doing your work.

Having that work-life balance , is making places like Northern Ontario

particularly attractive because they can maintain that, balance as well

as, being able to explore a lot of, uh, New experiences on their downtime.

So, uh, there's a lot of great opportunity and, and, and I think at Dino we're quite

excited about, growing, , opportunities and about working with all of our

stakeholders at the local levels.

Next time on the destination northern ontario podcast we'll talk to

a couple who walked the walk and bought a resort in northern ontario In that

conversation we'll learn why they made the leap than whether the investment

was worth it Subscribe or follow on your favorite podcast platform to make sure

you don't miss it for more information on investment opportunities across northern

ontario visit the new dno investor website@investdotdestinationnorthernontario.ca.

The link and other links for dno and thunder bay are available in the

show notes The destination northern ontario podcast is produced by

storied places media and hosted by me michelle samson thanks for listening