Roxanne is a Rebrand student and she's sharing her transformative experience going from charging $450 per session to averaging $1,400 per session. In this episode we talk about the value of mindset shifts, resilience, and investing in self-development to provide exceptional value to clients. Through her journey, Roxanne highlights the significance of mentoring, community support, and having a mindset focused on continuous improvement and alignment with personal values. The episode culminates with practical advice for photographers on pricing strategies, personal branding, and the power of authenticity in business.

Links

• Rebrand is enrolling now! When you join, you get immediate access to the curriculum, and live coaching calls. If you want to be THE brand photographer in your area, become more confident in your business, and charge four figures for brand sessions, I would love for you to join Rebrand. Learn more about the program here.
• Connect with Roxanne on social https://www.instagram.com/hawaimages/
• The Ultimate Personal Brand Session Shot List: 10 must-have images that will get your clients singing your praises. Download here!
• Full show notes

You're listening to Take It Personally,

a podcast for photographers about

2

the personal side of business

and the art of standing out.

3

Here I'll help you build a business

and a brand that is uniquely you.

4

If you want to attract dream

clients and stop looking at the

5

competition to decide your next move.

6

If you are ready to show up as a

confident branding authority to help

7

you serve your clients and consider

your goals and priorities too.

8

If you want to make your mark in a

new, underserved niche of photography,

9

then this is the place for you.

10

I'm your host Maddie Pachon, South

Dakota brand photographer and educator.

11

I'm a straight shooting,

Instagram obsessed.

12

Diehard Swifty who has built a multi

six figure business on the back of brand

13

photography all while raising a family.

14

And I know you can do the same.

15

Let's get ready to take it personally.

16

I am so excited to have

Roxanne on the podcast today.

17

Roxanne first came into Rebrand

18

and I actually had to confirm that

with her before we started recording

19

because I feel like I have known

her for so much longer than that.

20

And honestly, that's kind of

a recurring theme with the

21

people who come into Rebrand.

22

I feel like we've Just been connected

for much longer than we have.

23

Roxanne is the coolest chick.

24

You're going to love her.

25

She has such a way with words.

26

And she honestly, like she's

so generous with her words.

27

The way that she speaks about

rebrand is really cool as, um,

28

the, the leader of rebrand.

29

But she also has a really cool story

of resilience in her business and

30

how she's built what she's built and

how rebrand has helped her do that.

31

Before we started recording, I was looking

at Roxanne's client profile inside of

32

Rebrand, and in the time that she has

been around, been inside the program,

33

so she did her first cohort she did

at this time last year, took some time

34

off, and then came back in the fall.

35

And in that amount of time, she's

still submitted just shy of 23, 000

36

in brand photography, with her average

booking being about 1, 400, over 1, 400.

37

And she came in, we talk about

this in the program, when she came

38

into the program, she had done

just a couple of brand sessions

39

or what she called brand sessions.

40

She talks about this

as we chat, but there.

41

Very different than the type

of session that she offers now.

42

And she was charging 450 and we talk about

how her mindset shifted throughout the

43

course of the program and how, it can be

really intimidating to come into a program

44

and see people around you who maybe have

been there a little bit longer or who

45

have been in business a little bit longer.

46

Or for whatever reason, they're

just charging more than you are.

47

And Roxanne really took that as

motivation to see the people around

48

her who were charging more and

say, okay, because those people are

49

doing that, it means that I can too.

50

And as she consistently worked on her

process and the value that she was

51

bringing clients, she was able to raise

her prices, but in a way that she felt.

52

Really good about it.

53

So she's not just sending these inflated

invoices, she's sending invoices and

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she's able to say, I feel so aligned

with this price because I understand

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the value and I know what the value is.

56

So in the quarter, in the course of a year

going from charging 450 to averaging 1,

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400 for a brand session, and before we

hopped on this call, she said she just

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sent a proposal for either six or 11,

000, depending on which one they book.

59

And she said, I don't know if they're

going to book, but I feel so confident

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with the price that I sent them.

61

And if you would have told me that a year

ago, like I would have not believed you.

62

She has come such a long way

since joining the program.

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And I love the way her brain works

and the way that she talks about

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investing in yourself and really

working on your mindset above all else.

65

So I'm so excited to share

this conversation with you.

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maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Roxanne, welcome to Take It Personally.

67

I am so thrilled to have you here

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Oh my gosh, I've listened for forever,

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so I feel like I'm so excited.

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maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Oh, I love it.

71

I'm so happy that you're here.

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If you could go ahead and just introduce

yourself, let people know who you are,

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where you're from and what you do.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yes I am Roxanne Engstrom.

75

I'm the founder, visual storyteller

and photographer behind Howa Images.

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And I have been storytelling and

doing photography for 10 years, but

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throughout that time, I have changed

a ton, my business has changed a ton,

78

I've moved across the country recently.

79

Your girl Maddie walked me through all

of my I'm gonna quit and lose my mind

80

in the last six months of doing that and

relaunching in a new place So yeah, I

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love helping people tell their stories

with intention dignity compassion I

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like also I'm certified in storytelling

ethics and that's really important to me.

83

So making sure that We're telling

stories with informed consent and

84

that we really have, we're dignifying

people and that they feel good

85

about the stories we're telling,

and then moving people's business.

86

forward, not just creating, like

we say pretty pictures, but really

87

creating a gallery that's going to

just make people feel so confident.

88

Like my, I am a hype woman

and I always have been in

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whatever I've done in my life.

90

And what is, I think my superpower is

just allowing and cheering on other

91

women and being for them and especially

women, but everyone, but just making

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them or inviting them to step into

confidence because it's a muscle.

93

It's not something some people

have and you don't, it is

94

literally something you work out.

95

Like you go to the gym and

you just try it and it most of

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the time feels really awkward.

97

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Yes, I could not agree more.

98

It is a hundred percent a muscle.

99

I was reflecting the other day

about where my confidence started,

100

even just a couple of years ago,

compared to where I'm at today.

101

And it's not that, I'm, I look

and I'm like, Oh I'm like such

102

a super confident person now.

103

That's not necessarily

how I would describe it.

104

describe myself, but when I look

back at like where I've come, it was

105

really just a series of choices of

being like, okay, today I'm going to

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make decisions as if I were confident.

107

And today I'm going to do

this as if I were confident.

108

And like all of those little

actions add up so much.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

100%.

110

And I think like, when you make a

promise to yourself or you say, you're

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going to do something and you show up

and do it, you become more confident

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because you trust yourself more.

113

It's not about how you appear to

other people, even necessarily for

114

me, It's about I said I'm gonna get

up and go to the gym and I did it.

115

I don't care if I was slower

than the person next to me,

116

because I'm staying in my lane.

117

I am the queen of staying in my lane.

118

I literally have this on my desk.

119

It says, when you're in your

lane, there's no traffic.

120

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: Yes.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

key for me, especially given some of

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the unique challenges, I've faced.

123

So it's I just have to be about what

I'm about and worry about that and

124

then move forward in confidence.

125

But to me, it's like building

confidence is showing up for

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what I said I'm going to do.

127

It's not about appearing a

different way to other people.

128

Cause I will say this, I think social

media, owning your own business.

129

Being an entrepreneur comes with this

pressure to appear successful, right?

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Instead of actually being successful.

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And for me, it's just so much more

important to actually define success

132

on your own terms than just to play

a successful person on Instagram.

133

Like I,

134

I'm I'm dead serious.

135

Cause I've fallen into that comparison

trip and that's where you also, if you

136

find yourself resentful or burnt out

or bitter or jealous of others, you

137

got to take a step back because most

likely you're not driving in your lane.

138

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: Yep.

139

A hundred percent.

140

I have loved watching you just

evolve, even just over the last

141

year that we've known each other.

142

And even like when you came in to

Rebrand, I feel like you already

143

had, So much figured out and the way

that you continue to work on like

144

your mindset and your business is

a really incredible thing to watch.

145

And then watching you really take

that to the next level over this last

146

year has been the coolest thing ever.

147

So let's back up a little

148

bit and chat first through where were you?

149

You first came into rebrand in January

of 24 and then did a cohort and

150

then came back this last fall when I

changed the program to a full year.

151

So now you're back with us.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

You can't get rid of me, girl.

153

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

don't want to, I would never.

154

When you first came in, what was

going on in your life and your

155

business that made you say, okay,

I'm going to invest in this way?

156

Cause education, I feel

157

Has always been pretty important to you.

158

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yes.

159

We don't even have time to go on

about what was all going in my life.

160

So my

161

therapist will send you a debriefing.

162

But no, I one, I was, I

was almost launching a kid.

163

So my first child was, basically turning

18 and about to graduate high school.

164

That is a huge emotional, just.

165

I can't explain it to somebody

unless you're there because

166

it's just one of those things.

167

We were also preparing to move across

the country and I knew that I was at the

168

same way I knew about six years before.

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I was at a pivot place in my

personal, like my business.

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I love photography.

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I love my clients.

172

I love what I do.

173

And I was feeling like burnt out and just

I know that I can do more with this and

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I was, my season of life had changed.

175

So I used to love sunset portrait

photography because I had little

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babies, like I have four of

them at home, with me 24 seven.

177

And I wanted to do that.

178

I wanted to be there with them.

179

So I didn't want to go back to

teaching, which was my previous life.

180

So I launched this business after we

moved back from being overseas and I

181

started to do it and I started to grow

and it was much slower than I thought

182

and then, all these things, right?

183

But I then was at this season

where my kids are all in school.

184

And they're all in sports

and I was missing games.

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I was missing dinner.

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I was, and I could fully book.

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I could book way more than I could

actually handle, but I was becoming

188

exhausted again and I had personally

built my own brand, not like a crazy

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influencer, a bazillion followers,

but I had built my own successful

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brand and I knew like people knew

what to expect of me and I knew that

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they worked with me because of me.

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Like I knew that they trusted me

because of what they knew of me.

193

And I shared that with boundaries.

194

I've always had a lot of strong

boundaries around what I share,

195

but I do share personal things.

196

So I was like, you know what?

197

I'm, I love making women feel

really confident and step into

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like new phases of themselves.

199

And I, I can do that somewhat

through family photography and make

200

them see motherhood as beautiful.

201

But I was like, I want to work with

other batty women entrepreneurs.

202

That is who I love.

203

I got a taste of it and I

just wanted to do it more.

204

But I was really stuck at this

place of I, how do I make that pivot

205

without letting my other clients down?

206

But I knew it was this perfect

season because I was moving.

207

So what, it was almost like a

clean break because what I was

208

able to, what I was going to, I

know that you book what you show.

209

You book what you talk about,

you book what you put out there.

210

And I was like, I could really be

strategic and invest in myself and

211

move forward in North Carolina doing

more of what is really aligned to me

212

because I had been saying yes to a lot

of things because I love my clients.

213

I want to be clear.

214

Oh my gosh.

215

They made me the photographer.

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I am.

217

I love them.

218

When I go back to Chicago

land, I got their back.

219

And my season of life was changing and

I just always want to be the person

220

that's brave enough to edit my own life.

221

I always want to look around at

what's happening and not just stay the

222

course because you stay the course.

223

I want to edit so that I can

become more aligned with my values

224

so I can become more successful

as far as I define success.

225

And what I realized was to earn more, I

would just have to keep hustling more.

226

And I didn't, I knew

that was trading value.

227

I'm going to, I don't want to cry

when I think about this, but like

228

the time with your teenagers,

they need you as much as toddlers.

229

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

absolutely.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

And I'm like, I'm not

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missing any more games.

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I'm not missing any more things now, of

course, occasionally, but because that's

233

what any working parent, we have to make

hard choices, but I just knew that I

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could do something different, but I knew

that investing in myself and taking that

235

goal seriously was where I needed to be.

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And I'm the kind of person, maybe

you're out there listening, like

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I know I need a kick in the pants.

238

I also know that I value what I pay for.

239

Like your girl, if I put money into

something, my butt's going to show up.

240

If I do a free course online,

I'm going to download it once and

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maybe you'll never see me again.

242

That's just my life.

243

Like it's chaos over here.

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So I was like, if I put money in

this, I am going to show up and do it.

245

So that's really where

I was at that season.

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maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

And at that time you obviously had

247

a successful photography brand, so

you were shooting other things, but

248

had you shot a brand session before?

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

I think at that point I had done like I,

250

I called them creative portrait sessions.

251

but they were to help like one

person more share their story online.

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Like maybe more, I would call

it not like influencer, like

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10, 000 follower influencer.

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But like people that were

growing businesses online, I

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had done a couple of those.

256

But nowhere near the process I have now,

like now I just feel like, Oh my gosh,

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I didn't even know what I didn't know.

258

And that's the thing.

259

Give yourself grace.

260

You don't know what you don't know, and I

think Once you're a professional, right?

261

It can feel like weakness to ask

questions, but the only way you

262

get better, I tell this to my

kids all the time, be brave enough

263

to suck at something, be brave

enough to be new at something.

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Because if you're never brave

enough to be seen being awkward,

265

you'll never be great, right?

266

You'll never be excellent.

267

So listen, I, you will, you, I will

never despise being seen trying harder.

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I'm going to be out here on these

streets trying harder, building

269

confidence, serving my clients better.

270

That's what I'm going to be doing.

271

So this was part of that journey for me.

272

So I'm so thankful for you, Maddie.

273

Yeah.

274

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

loved watching your journey and it's

275

incredible to see where you were a

year ago versus where you are today.

276

You came into rebrand and you said

your average session that you were

277

shooting, you were charging like 450

278

for, and now we were just looking

at your student dashboard, the

279

average session that you have been

booking inside of rebrand is 1,

280

And that just keeps growing because

you keep sending these giant invoices.

281

I'm obsessed with it.

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roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

I know.

283

It's so crazy.

284

And, but this is the best part of that

for me is like, Cause this is what I want

285

to speak to the person that's listening.

286

That's like me.

287

Okay.

288

Who's thinking, Oh, like everything in me.

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I don't want to rip people off.

290

I don't want to

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I don't want to just raise my prices.

292

this is huge.

293

I think this is so important because,

and let me be clear, no shade.

294

Okay.

295

Maybe a little shade, but I'm

not going to mention any names.

296

I have taken other masterclasses

or whatever free things online

297

with other photographers.

298

And to me, the vibe was.

299

Get people in from a, for

a portrait session and then

300

like nickel and dime them.

301

Like it never said in those words,

believe you, believe me, but charge

302

them for the downloads, charge them

for this, pressure them to buy this.

303

That's the way it felt.

304

Listen, those people are

making more money than me.

305

So again, no, like a

little shade, but no shade.

306

It's just not, it's just not me though.

307

Do you know what I mean?

308

This is the

309

thing you have to know who you are.

310

And for me that I want to I wouldn't

hire a photographer like that.

311

Do you know what I'm saying?

312

I want my images.

313

I want the rights to post

them, all those things.

314

So I was like, I just knew I could never,

With a straight face, go into a sales

315

meeting like that because it's not me.

316

And again, it's, if it works

for you, it works for you.

317

But when you know what's aligned to

you, like I am a whole grown ass woman.

318

I know who I am.

319

I know what I'm comfortable with.

320

So for me, and I see a lot of

photographer groups right out there

321

right now, like on Facebook, right?

322

I'm in a lot of these people

complaining, bookings are down.

323

How do I charge more?

324

How do I raise my prices

and still get bookings?

325

All these things.

326

And I've even commented before, but

for me, it was like I know that people

327

will always pay for what they value.

328

Now you will work yourself

out of some clients.

329

But you guys, if you're going to

evolve and change, that's a good thing.

330

When I first started 10 years

ago, I remember like begging

331

people to do a session like,

Oh for 50 bucks for 50 bucks.

332

I'm new.

333

Now, if we go back and look at those

pictures, they were worth about 49.

334

95.

335

Let's be honest.

336

They were real rough girl.

337

We're not even going to talk about it.

338

It's on my Instagram.

339

You can go back, but I don't

have that skill level anymore.

340

And I think a lot of,

341

especially women are living

in this like past version of

342

ourselves and we're not stepping

343

into that confidence.

344

And so for me, I knew I want to increase

my pricing so I can spend more time with

345

my kids and my business can be what I said

it was going to be, which is something

346

that is not the only thing in my life

that dictates my time, but that adds

347

value to our family as far as financials,

but also gives me a creative outlet and

348

lets me work with people that I love.

349

But I w I didn't want

to just raise my prices.

350

I wanted to raise the

value so that my clients.

351

Same exact way that they would text

me after a 400, 50 or 450 session in

352

their car crying because they can't

believe how beautiful they look.

353

I want them to feel that

with a 1, 950 session.

354

And I knew that was in me, Maddie, like

that's the thing, but I was scrambled the

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ADHD ing, I was like, how do I get there?

356

And so I knew I wanted growth.

357

And to massively increase the value

of my work so that I felt aligned

358

and then more excited about my work.

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Because like right now I put

in way more work than I used

360

to for a 450 session, right?

361

But that makes perfect sense

because I'm charging way more

362

and I feel great about it.

363

Like I don't feel any type of way.

364

I don't feel exhausted.

365

I don't drag myself to sessions anymore.

366

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: I

think that this is something that isn't

367

talked about enough because there is a lot

of rhetoric in the coaching and education

368

industries that you should charge

369

more.

370

And yeah, totally.

371

I agree.

372

Photographers tend to be really

underpriced just in general.

373

Creative fields in

374

general are not charging enough.

375

And we need to take into account that

if you're charging 450 right now,

376

if some coach comes up to you and

says, I want you to raise your price

377

to 1, 400 right now, you're going

to have a flipping heart attack.

378

Like

379

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

And you actually should because

380

that's actually shady if you're

not doing anything different

381

that you like listen to your

mind and heart on that, right?

382

Raise your experience.

383

Yeah.

384

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Yep, absolutely.

385

And I think too often people raise their

price because they get busier and busier.

386

So they incrementally raise their price

and then they eventually get to this

387

point at whatever number it is, where

they max themselves out and people

388

aren't paying those prices anymore.

389

It's not because the price is too high.

390

It's because the value doesn't match the

391

price.

392

And so inside of rebrand,

that is something that we are

393

constantly working on is not

394

just raising your price, but

raising the value and raising your

395

confidence so you understand the

396

value that you're bringing to the table

so you can send a 3, 000 invoice and

397

be like, I earned every penny of that

3, 000 and not in a way where I'm like

398

hustling like crazy and I'm burnt out

and I'm resentful or anything like that.

399

But it's that valuable.

400

The

401

price matches the value.

402

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

And I want to say if you're

403

listening and you're thinking,

Oh my gosh, I could not do that.

404

Yeah.

405

Listen, I almost threw up and peed

my pants the first time I sent my

406

full, I'm not even going to lie.

407

I was like, run into the

bathroom, I'm going to puke.

408

I can't do this.

409

I can't send this because I was

so used to having, like she said,

410

raising my price, 25, 50 every time.

411

But you have to get very real with

yourself and this is what it is, right?

412

If you feel burned out or resentful.

413

Of your work or clients are

taking advantage of you or

414

any of those things, right?

415

If you feel oh my gosh It is lovingly i'm

going to say what was said to me at one

416

point, which was through out of love It

is because of your own lack of boundaries

417

most likely Okay, and because you are

not with the right kind of clients that

418

value you when I charged way less I had

the clients that Questioned everything

419

or and maybe I wasn't as good sure and

my process wasn't as good But when I

420

raised sure I lost some people and I

respect that because this is, listen,

421

photography is not a requirement, right?

422

People choose to have it or they don't.

423

But like I have people more that are

like, I don't want a photographer.

424

I want Roxanne,

425

right?

426

They see you as like somebody who they

see your expertise and they appreciate it.

427

And that allows you, I think

to relax into your career, at

428

least for me, my creative energy.

429

And you need to make sure that your

process serves your clients well,

430

offers that value, and that then

you are compensated in a way that

431

makes you feel really good about

putting in all the extra work.

432

Like I

433

have joy when I put it in now in

the last six months because I'm

434

like, I'm being compensated fairly.

435

And that's really what revamped has

helped me arrive at, is and listen,

436

I, other, I've had past clients

say, Leave because they're like,

437

okay, Roxanne raised her prices.

438

This was before we ran, but

Roxanne raised her prices.

439

I'm going to go somewhere else

like where it's 2 15 hour.

440

And then they came back and they

said, Oh my gosh, that photographer

441

then charged me this and then

charged me this and then charged me

442

this and then charged me this.

443

And it wasn't up front and I'm so sorry.

444

I left you and I'm coming back.

445

And I'm like, girl, I got you.

446

No worries, but I done told

you, but people don't listen.

447

It's fine.

448

But that's the thing.

449

It's just make it straight up.

450

That's what I appreciate.

451

Like when you go through in the

beginning, when you join rebrand,

452

you do a signature session with us.

453

You help us.

454

It's the one on one coaching and the

group coaching that helps you see,

455

and then you see these other women.

456

You're like, Oh my gosh.

457

And this is, we talked about this a

little bit before Maddie, but when you

458

see someone else, one of the reasons

I love being on rebrand right now is

459

because there's new rebranders, right?

460

And so I'm able to say, you can do

it because I did it and I didn't

461

think I could do it six months ago.

462

And I think all of us have this comparison

trap in business and entrepreneurship

463

and you can, you literally, it's a

mindset you choose if someone, if you

464

see someone else doing something and

being successful, you, your brain,

465

literally your cognitive thinking, you

have a choice to say because she's doing

466

that, I can't do it like, Oh my gosh.

467

I can't, there's no way.

468

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Market is too saturated.

469

She has this and I don't.

470

Yeah,

471

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Or you can say, Oh my

472

gosh, that's inspiring.

473

I can learn and then I

can still make it my own

474

because that's the thing.

475

The other thing about mentorship and

coaching is I just sent out an email to

476

my email list about this mentorship and

coaching has helped hold me accountable.

477

You've helped me do that.

478

Giving me real feedback.

479

I love you for that.

480

Your video where you were

like, this is Roxanne 2.

481

0 on my last session.

482

I recorded it.

483

Cause I was like, I'm going to

listen to this on a bad day.

484

Cause I respect you so much.

485

And so it was really helpful to hear that.

486

And it's also helped me realize

what I don't agree with.

487

Like what is still what I'm

going to do differently,

488

but you have, when you, and

so that's like a good thing.

489

You bump up against things and you're

like, I wouldn't do it that way.

490

I'm still going to do it my way.

491

And then you figure out who you are.

492

But like that, like crucible, that

process forces you to make decisions.

493

And for me, that's good because

I can be all over the place.

494

I'm like,

495

Ooh, shiny object.

496

And I was just doing too many

sessions and I was so busy.

497

I was editing and shooting.

498

All the time.

499

I had no

500

time to develop anything

501

like a system.

502

Forget it.

503

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Photography is such an art and I think a

504

lot of people get into it because of the

505

art that we forget that if we

want to actually build a business,

506

that's a different skill set.

507

And

508

I will talk to a lot of people

during rebrand launches who

509

beat themselves up about that.

510

I'm so bad at Messaging, or I don't

know what I'm doing when it comes

511

to social media, or I'm, I don't

understand marketing or whatever.

512

And they just really beat

513

themselves up about it.

514

And I think it's important

to remember that that is a

515

completely different skillset than

learning how to use your camera.

516

It is okay to ask for help.

517

It's okay to say, I'm a really good

photographer, but like this piece,

518

sales and marketing and client

experience, not really my thing, so I'm

519

going to get help with those things.

520

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yes.

521

And that goes back to,

again, it's so funny, right?

522

Cause I've been a

photographer for 10 years.

523

My company was founded 10 years ago.

524

And I remember the first few years

I had a, another mentor, a great

525

guy, but he was like, why do you

have such a problem calling yourself

526

a professional photographer?

527

And I was like, cause I didn't

study, like I didn't go to school for

528

it.

529

He's if you are making money

as a photographer, you are

530

a professional photographer.

531

And he's nobody can tell you that,

but you, like you have to decide.

532

So then somewhere in the last 10

years, I got to be knowing that I

533

was a professional photographer and

then thinking that meant that I'm

534

not going to suck at new things.

535

Like somewhere along the line I got,

so like literally I posted a reel

536

about this because I got new lighting.

537

I invest because in part because

of rebrand and doing more brand

538

photography and in part because I

was like, I had saved for it and I

539

was really excited to and so I bought

all this new lighting girl, couldn't

540

use it, cried real tears, called the

company, thought my thing was broken.

541

I'm like, what is wrong with me?

542

And I literally for about two hours

made that mean that I should quit.

543

and that I should go do something else

544

because I am a complete failure

and a miserable human being.

545

And then I was like, what do I tell

every other woman that I mentor?

546

Failure is feedback.

547

You can figure it out.

548

You are grittier and scrappier than and

just because you don't know how to do

549

something right now does not mean you

cannot be gritty enough to figure it out.

550

And I think it's absolutely true that.

551

We nobody knows when they start

their own business all that's

552

involved because if you had

553

told me I would have been

like no thank you because

554

It's a whole

555

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

my day

556

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yeah.

557

I always say people on the Instagrams

they, Oh, I'm going out to lunch with my

558

girlfriends and coffee with my friend.

559

And I'm always like, what life is that?

560

Because I'm at home editing,

cooking for these people, picking

561

up kids, shooting a session, right?

562

It's yes, it is.

563

Some days it's like that.

564

It's amazing.

565

You do.

566

And I, especially with living with a

chronic illness, the freedom that I have

567

to plan my days, but it is straight work.

568

It is a

569

lot of work.

570

And if you like, this is the

thing, again, driving in my lane.

571

I can tell you like three or four

things right now that I am excellent at.

572

And it's taken me a long time in

my life to be able to actually own

573

that and live in confidence in that.

574

But I can also tell you about

10 things that I absolutely

575

am abysmal at and it's okay.

576

And I can get better at those things

or I can make enough to farm them out.

577

To

578

hire help or I can just learn new skills.

579

So I just want to say to anybody, right?

580

You can learn new things that

you are not good at today.

581

Do not have to dictate the

business that you have in a year.

582

You can figure out and learn new things.

583

And if you need help,

this is the biggest thing.

584

And this is the biggest thing that I

recommend to the women I mentored now too.

585

People always want to know when they're

starting out, what camera should I buy?

586

What camera should I buy?

587

What equipment should I invest in?

588

My first camera has long

been sold on eBay long ago.

589

Cameras are important.

590

I'm not going to say

equipment's not important.

591

I just invested

592

in a bunch of new equipment.

593

And you taught, we talk

about that inside of rebrand.

594

It's important, but the only thing

that you carry with you in every

595

season of business is yourself.

596

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: Yep.

597

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

is not a magical, rebrand is not the

598

magical thing that will fix your business.

599

You

600

are rebrand is an amazing, in my opinion,

very robust, abundant tool that has

601

so many facets and it will help you.

602

But what I have found again

and again is that it's me.

603

It's me that I should invest in because

even if I pivot tomorrow, God forbid my

604

disease progresses and I can't shoot,

I can be an, I can do another business.

605

I know I can.

606

Why?

607

Because I've shown up

for myself and I know I

608

can do it.

609

So your mindset, what you learning new

things, it just creates so much momentum

610

and empowerment and you can't, like you

can't really, I don't know, quantify that.

611

It's just,

612

it's worth it.

613

It's worth the

614

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

It builds so much resilience

615

and you can't, it.

616

that's not something that you

can just like manufacture,

617

like it's created over time.

618

And to your point, whether that's,

Through a program like rebrand or

619

through something else, whatever you

build so much resilience simply by

620

saying, I'm going to do this thing.

621

I'm going to show up for

myself every single day.

622

I'm going to build my own personal

623

brand.

624

Cause then yeah you're spot on.

625

You can take that with you.

626

That's

627

why people will often ask me like what's

the platform that I should build on?

628

Should

629

I do.

630

Email marketing.

631

Should I do social media?

632

Should I be on Instagram?

633

Should I be on

634

TikTok?

635

And that doesn't matter as much as

building your own personal brand.

636

Because the personal brand comes with you.

637

Whether TikTok

638

shuts down tomorrow or there's

a new platform a month from now,

639

your personal brand comes with you.

640

So whatever platform you want to build

it on that, but invest in your personal

641

brand, however you want to do that.

642

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yeah.

643

And I want to say something about

that because I say this to my

644

clients all the time.

645

For people like, sometimes especially

I find women struggle with this more.

646

I will talk to my own

branding clients about this.

647

Oh, I struggle with building a brand,

quote unquote, building a brand.

648

Like I am my brand

because it feels so yucky.

649

It feels so self centered.

650

It feels so egotistical.

651

Building a brand is only gross.

652

If you are like, if you are a gross

person that's trying to take advantage

653

of people, or if you don't want to

serve your clients, I don't care.

654

I'm not even speaking about photographers.

655

I'm speaking to anybody right now.

656

That's gross.

657

Please don't get on social media

and build it because we got plenty

658

of people out there doing that.

659

Confidence is not arrogance, right?

660

And showing up as your authentic

self, one, it encourages others to

661

show up as their authentic selves

662

It helps connect you to the

people that value you and

663

value what you have to offer.

664

And I want to say, With

so many boundaries.

665

I have written about this in the past

because there's a lot of things in, I

666

share a lot of myself actually online,

but there's a lot of things that

667

will never be online about my family,

about myself, about my kids, and no

668

apologies and no explanation to anyone

669

because I don't owe it to them.

670

My close circle knows and that's it.

671

And you can build a brand with boundaries.

672

And so I think that's something that,

women especially don't be afraid to

673

step into like personal branding because

you think it's making it all about you.

674

It's actually allowing you to connect

with the people that are going to

675

appreciate what you have to offer and

you're going to be able to see them.

676

Like my clients, what I think I, what

I love is when I meet my clients, they

677

feel like they know me in some way and,

they do because we share back and forth

678

and then I follow them and I cheer

them on and I'm like, I just sent.

679

My last client just a message

yesterday saying, I just want

680

to tell you, you're crushing it.

681

She's been posting her pictures

every single day since our session.

682

And I'm like, I just am cheering you on.

683

And we have that built because we started

following each other and knowing what each

684

other was about, and then one other thing

I was thinking when you were saying that

685

about people investing in it, don't be

too proud to admit that you need help and

686

that you don't know what you don't know.

687

I think Vulnerability is something, I'm

not talking about, Oh, I'm going to talk

688

about all my era, all my dirty laundry

online so that I can appear vulnerable.

689

I'm talking about actually saying,

Hey, I'm a photographer, but I

690

need help using my flash or, Hey,

691

I'm a photographer.

692

But like, how did you get those

indoor photos to look like that?

693

Hey, I'm a photographer, but like

my back end dub Sato CRM is a mess.

694

Somebody help.

695

Because until you do that, you

are not going to feel aligned and

696

good about what you have to offer.

697

And it's, and everybody has deficits guys.

698

There is nobody, the person that you are

following that you think is crushing and

699

owning and just like stomping the world.

700

Maddie has vulnerabilities and

things that she's not good at.

701

Everybody that you see online has

things that they need to grow in.

702

And that's one of the reasons

I trusted Maddie because Maddie

703

told me from the I have a mentor.

704

I don't trust people

705

that don't also have a mentor.

706

If you think you've arrived, I'm not down.

707

We are all on a journey and

just don't be too proud to miss,

708

for me, in my my, my worldview.

709

Don't be too proud to

miss what God has for you

710

by focusing on what you could do better.

711

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

I was having a conversation with

712

another student the other day who

was just having a really hard time.

713

And so we were working

through some mindset stuff.

714

And she said something along

the lines of it just feels like

715

everyone else has this figured out

and I don't have this figured out.

716

And I was like, I'm

going to stop you right

717

there.

718

I'm like, that is if you're going

through life thinking that everyone

719

who's an entrepreneur has something

that you don't have, you're

720

wrong.

721

That is just so wrong.

722

And

723

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Tell her to call me girl.

724

I'll make her feel better.

725

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

I'm like, I at this point in my career,

726

the brand photography side of my

business, I feel really good about.

727

I

728

don't, it is very rare on the

photography side where I will

729

say, I don't know what I'm

730

doing now.

731

Sometimes if I get a new

piece of lighting equipment

732

or I'm learning a new But in

general, that's pretty good.

733

But then I went and launched this

whole new education business and now

734

I got to learn Facebook ads and I

735

got to learn up sales funnels.

736

And I, so what did I do?

737

I hired for all of those things.

738

Cause I don't know what the hell

739

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

yeah.

740

Terrifying.

741

Yeah.

742

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Terrifying.

743

So it's just an evolution, right?

744

As soon as you figure out one thing,

there's going to be something new that

745

pops up that you have no idea what the F

you're doing and you will figure it out

746

or you will find someone who can help.

747

And I think that's the beauty of

entrepreneurship and of growing as

748

a human and growing as a business

owner is that we can do that.

749

We can do hard

750

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yes.

751

And if you, if you are waiting for the

one thing that's going to fix everything,

752

you're always going to be disappointed.

753

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Yeah.

754

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

So I remember when I invested thousands

755

into a rebrand of my business, my website.

756

And I remember two days after it

launched, I thought to myself, Oh, I

757

would have done this differently now,

758

like two days after my website launched.

759

And then I figured out how

to change it on my own.

760

But that I literally laughed to myself

because I was like, That's what life is.

761

It's not just

762

entrepreneurship.

763

Life, parenting, trust me, every time

you think you have something figured

764

out, it's the goal is going to move.

765

But this is what I want to say about that.

766

That's important.

767

That should not make us

feel what's the word?

768

Like discouraged.

769

It should make us a non

negotiable link arms, with other

770

people doing the same thing

771

because when you link arms with other

people that are real and I'm not talking

772

about, don't get in these groups that

are just complaining about their clients.

773

Unfollow.

774

I do not have anything negative

to say about my clients.

775

I was like, they are amazing humans.

776

What are you talking about?

777

But don't link arms with people

that are pushing themselves to be

778

better, but that are realistic about

how hard that is and community.

779

And investing in yourself, you're

going to be around a different

780

caliber of person and it's going to

encourage you when you have a down

781

day and then when they have it.

782

And then you can also, you know

what you have to do is learn

783

to celebrate the wins, right?

784

So the biggest invoice I ever sent

when I signed it I celebrated that

785

win with a little small dinner

or a lunch out with my husband.

786

Like I'm going to celebrate those little

things because I know that I still have

787

a lot more to learn, but that's a win.

788

And in rebrand, we do that for each other.

789

Like we have

790

an entire Slack channel and just wins.

791

And it's not because of the

environment you've created as a leader.

792

It's not this nasty, like

one upmanship that can

793

exist.

794

And it's not posturing.

795

It's okay, y'all know how I was a hot

mess yesterday, but today this happens.

796

Like,

797

And that's you have to be with people

that are being honest about the

798

journey, but that are not content

to settle for less than their best.

799

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: Ooh.

800

Yeah.

801

That's, that is one of the biggest reasons

that I love having you in Rebrand because

802

like you said, when we opened

this episode, you are a hype girl.

803

Like you are the first

person to cheer others on.

804

To tell them, Hey, I've

been there and it sucks.

805

And I see you and you're

going to get through this.

806

Like I, people like you are what make the

program that really incredible community.

807

So thank

808

you for being

809

here.

810

and

811

I just, I could talk to you

812

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Yeah, and I think that is

813

has a lot to do with your

leadership to Maddie because it's

814

like a lot of people are insecure

as a leader and they don't, they

815

can't lead alongside other people

that have leadership gifts.

816

And I have leadership gifts and

817

there's

818

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: do.

819

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

of other people inside of rebrand that do

820

and you let us speak up even if we have

something slightly different than you or,

821

And then we offer that to the group and

it's not and it's different than someone

822

trying to take charge and whatever,

no, but like that kind of thing.

823

And I know one other thing I was going

to share that we talked about ahead

824

of time is this is my second time.

825

So I'm

826

not a flunk out.

827

I would like to say it's not like I got

an F the first time and I had to join

828

the second time.

829

It's that I, when Maddie reopened

it, I was like, you know what?

830

I had a hard season of life

and I got a ton out of rebrand.

831

I realized that I could benefit a lot

more from really following through

832

and investing in myself again.

833

So I joined the second time and I

just want to encourage everybody, like

834

again, you are on your own timeline.

835

Not everybody has my life, a

chronic illness, four kids moving

836

across the country, the other

things that I'm carrying and

837

I'm committed to getting better.

838

I'm not committed to beating her.

839

Or doing better than her or

840

doing worse than or look,

I'm doing better than her.

841

So I'm winning.

842

No, I want to stay in my lane and

improve until my process and my

843

value matches what I'm charging.

844

And I feel amazing about it.

845

So I was like, you know what?

846

I want to stay and just make sure

I've refined all that and get that.

847

My favorite part of the program for

me has been the, when I submit my

848

stuff and you give the honest review,

she's always on our walking pad guys.

849

Oh my gosh.

850

I love it.

851

Yeah, I was like, Oh she's got this down.

852

And she gives the honest feedback.

853

And the first couple of times

you gave me feedback, I was

854

like, I don't like that feedback.

855

And then I was like, Oh, but she's right.

856

She's right.

857

So I went back and I refined.

858

And then the latest one I got, I was

like, and I knew, see, this is the

859

thing.

860

When I submitted this session, I knew

it was the best session I've ever shot.

861

And I,

862

and then you confirm that.

863

And I was like, now I have

what I need to move forward.

864

So it's if you need to do what you

need to do to get better, period.

865

I don't care if that's invest in rebrand.

866

I don't care if that's

invest in something else.

867

Whatever it is, a mindset coach,

maybe you just need to go to

868

therapy.

869

Maybe you just, I go to therapy.

870

Everybody needs that.

871

But whatever it is for you to

heal, move forward, get better and

872

feel more successful in your life.

873

Defining that on your own terms,

girl, we are cheering for you.

874

Be brave enough to do it.

875

Be brave

876

enough to do it.

877

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

I love it.

878

Roxanne, tell everybody where you're

at now and how they can work with you.

879

If they're looking for a brand

880

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Oh my gosh, I would love it.

881

I'm obsessed with my

clients in the Raleigh area.

882

They are the most fire,

I cannot even tell you.

883

So I moved from Chicagoland, I'm now,

and I go back to Chicagoland to do

884

sessions there a couple times a year,

so you can still hit me up for that.

885

I have an email list that people

get first notice, priority booking.

886

I'll be there in March.

887

And then I am now right outside

of Raleigh, North Carolina.

888

So servicing, all of the areas

around there and I do brand session.

889

I call them brand storytelling

sessions because I am a

890

storyteller and I help small businesses,

companies, just tell your story with

891

intention, creativity, dignity and

really move your business forward.

892

So I partner with people to

make sure that we have a really

893

unique way to share your story.

894

I have a I'm excited to be working with

a client later today, so I'm so excited.

895

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

I love it.

896

I'm going to include your social media

and website and everything in the show

897

notes.

898

So if you guys are in Roxanne's

area, you can hit her up.

899

Roxanne, you're such a fricking light.

900

I could literally keep talking to

you for the next couple of hours.

901

I'm just, I'm so thankful

to have you in my life.

902

So thankful to have you in the program

and can't enough for being here today.

903

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952:

Thank you so much, Maddie.

904

There are so many of us that appreciate

you and your willingness to say, Hey, I

905

am successful at this, but I also want to

empower others to find their own version

906

of success at this is really inspiring.

907

So I'm grateful to know you

like you're the real deal.

908

You're not just playing

909

success on Instagram.

910

You're the real deal.

911

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953:

Thank you.

912

I appreciate that.

913

Thank you so much for listening

to Take It Personally.

914

If you haven't already, would you head

over to iTunes and leave us a review?

915

This is the best way to let other

photographers know about the show and

916

help keep us creating content you crave.

917

And if you want more tips and tools to

build your personal photography brand,

918

head over to my website, MaddiePichon.

919

com.

920

Here, you can access my downloadable

ultimate personal brand session shot

921

list to get your clients singing

your praises and browse my blog for

922

more trade secrets to help you hone

your craft and grow your business.

923

Love to learn while you

listen, visit MaddiePachon.

924

com and click on podcast for all things.

925

Take it personally.

926

From show notes to recent episodes

and incredible guest profiles.

927

Remember friend, the most important part

of any brand is the people behind it.

928

Branding and business is personal,

so let's take it personally.