Are you tired of feeling stuck in cycles of shame, overthinking, or never quite getting it right?

In this honest episode of the Collide Podcast, we sit down with Lisa Whittle to talk about how shame, misplaced priorities, and hidden idols quietly take hold in our lives—and keep us from experiencing the freedom God has for us. She shares about her unexpected journey into ministry, how pain shaped her calling, and what it really looks like to put Jesus over everything.

Whether you’re battling shame, stuck in unhealthy patterns, or longing for a fresh start with God, this episode will remind you that it’s never too late to come back and experience soul-deep renewal.

Meet Lisa Whittle

Lisa is an author, Bible teacher, podcast host, and ministry leader who has written nearly ten books and studies focused on helping women follow Jesus with integrity and depth. She also leads Ministry Strong, where she equips leaders to serve God faithfully for the long haul. Lisa is passionate about helping women break free from shame, live with purpose, and keep Jesus at the center of their lives.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn

• How God often uses pain and hardship to reveal your calling and purpose
• The subtle ways idols and “over behaviors” (like overthinking, overworking, or overindulging) take over your life
• Why shame keeps so many women stuck—and how to break free from it
• What it practically looks like to put Jesus first and experience real soul revival

How This Episode Will Encourage You

This episode will help you take an honest look at what’s been holding you back and remind you that freedom is possible. You’ll be encouraged to release shame, realign your priorities, and come back to God just as you are—knowing He meets you there with grace, healing, and hope.

https://wecollide.net/books/collide/

Connect with Lisa: lisawhittle.com

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Hey, welcome to the Collide Podcast. This is Willow Weston and I'm so glad to be with you.

I love that every single week on Wednesday I get to learn right alongside you the power of God's story through people.

It blows my mind every time just how God gets a hold of a life, how he intervenes, how he rescues, how he transforms, how he calls, how he encourages, how he heals. And today I gotta interview Lisa Whittle. She's a best selling author. I think she's written like 10 books.

She's a sought out Bible teacher, speaker, podcast host. So many things. And I wanted to ask how the Lord unfolded this story in her life.

And it was so interesting to hear that she didn't see it coming at all. You'll hear that from her.

And then we talk a lot about soul revival and how to make sure we're putting Jesus over everything in our lives and what to do when things get out of whack and things get out of priority. So I hope that this conversation encourages you today.

Lisa, it's so fun to have you on the Collide Podcast. I have so many things I want to ask you. You've written a bajillion million books and Bible studies and become this voice that speaks to women about Jesus.

And before I ask you kind of what some of your writings are about and why you wrote them and how they apply to our lives, can you invite us into how this became your reality? Because I'm sure there was a time where the Lisa Whittle didn't imagine herself to be this voice that God's using to impact lives.

So take us back to a place where you couldn't imagine this. And how did God unfold all of it?

Oh, well, thanks for having me on, Willow. It's an honor.

Yeah, I mean, I. I really didn't set out to do any writing or speaking that wasn't a part of my, I don't know, dream plan, whatever you want to call it, goal. I was born and raised into a pastor's family, and so I've lived in a glass house really my whole life in ministry.

And so I wasn't eager to, I guess, serve God in a public way. That wasn't a part of my thought process. I always loved Jesus from a very early age. Came to know him when I was very young.

But my idea of like serving God and being a good Christian was I really wanted to just sort of have a good family, go to church, but really not do a whole lot more than that. I didn't understand my gifts. I really didn't understand who I was.

And so, yeah, thinking in the scope of any type of public ministry was not a part of my life thought process through college. And really, even when I went to seminary as a young woman, I was going to study marriage and family counseling.

And so I thought I was going to be a psychologist. And that was really what I wanted to do until I started kind of taking some more of the advanced classes in that.

And I thought, I'm not sure that I'm cut out to sit and listen, listen to people's problems all day. I feel like that's not really a fit for me.

And so I've always loved studying people and thinking deeply and strategizing and processing and all of those things. And also throughout college, I really enjoyed the process of creative writing. And my teachers would utilize my papers as an example of how to write.

But I didn't know how to write. I just wrote. I didn't take classes on it, like basic English classes, but that was it. So there was no formal training either.

And I just didn't put any pieces together. To be honest with you, Willow, I was not public speaking, none of those things.

And really what began happening was I began to serve in my local church when I had my first child. We didn't have a MOPS group, which is mothers of preschoolers. At the time, we didn't have anything like that.

And I was just like, we need to have something like this. I was in a very. I needed some community. And so I thought, well, I guess I'll start it since no one else has done it. And so I did that.

And my mom and I decided to just dive in and teach a Wednesday night women's Bible study together, because I thought that'd be kind of fun. And then honestly, we had a crisis in our life. My husband lost his job, and by this point we had three little kids that were under the age of four.

And I just kind of wrote my mom some feelings in an email and just said, this is kind of how I feel. And she said, lisa, this is really rich and deep, and I think other people would relate to this.

And she submitted my work to a magazine and she had asked me if she could. And I said, I don't care what you do with it. And it just became. It became something bigger. And honestly, that's how it all started.

So that's kind of a long way around. But the point here is like, I never set out to do any of this, but the Lord had Certain certainly gifted me in ways that would prepare me for it.

I just didn't have the sense to know how to put it all together.

Mm. It's so interesting to me how I hear over and over again.

I mean, probably almost every podcast, if not every other podcast, people saying that somehow God used a hardship or a season of pain that actually unfolded their calling, which is so interesting to me. So you. By the. So cute that you and your mom minister together. I was just picturing, like, oh, that'd be so cool if I could do that with my daughter.

I love that so much. You wrote this thing to your mom in a place of pain, and God uses it. And then what is.

Does that become, like, this moment for you where you're like, oh, wow, God is using my writing and you start writing more? Like, how did it move from that to how many books have you written now?

I'm working on my 10th Willow. I wish that I was that perceptive. I really wish that I. I mean, some. I feel like the Lord has to.

I'm one of his hardest cases, I'm sure, because I feel like I should have picked up on, like, oh, yes, I probably am going to have a writing career. Absolutely not. I really thought, like, that's fine. I was printed in an article. Maybe I am praying the Lord uses that.

But no, I really still did not think, okay, I'm going to have a writing career. And please, when I'm saying this, please don't hear me acting falsely humble.

I literally did not think to myself, this is what I want to do, or I may do, or I have a career in doing it. Because writing a book and writing an article are two completely different animals.

And I still did not have in my brain that even writing a book sounded like something fun to do. I just, you know, I like to.

I'm a little more assertive than what sounded like would be fun to sit behind a computer screen and write for three months of my life or six months of my life, whatever I still had in my brain, I would maybe be an interior designer or some type of work in some type of corporate setting. I really did not have this in my brain.

Now I'm the mom of three little kids, and I really, my whole life, also wanted to mother and take care of my family. And so it just really was not, again, something that I wanted to do. Also, I've been really wounded from growing up as a pastor's daughter.

My dad went through a major public fall, and so I just didn't understand and didn't really know how God would bring that to be and didn't have that ambition. I will say at the age of 23, I did feel a real call in my life to do some type of ministry. But again, I didn't understand what that would be.

It was before I got married, before kids and all of that.

So what happened from there is the Lord began to give me ideas for like messages and you know, just kind of while I would be driving or while I would be in the shower or while I would be doing cooking dinner, it was. It's not very unlike what he does with me now.

And what I've heard a lot of authors say, he would just give me ideas that I knew I was not smart enough to come up with myself. Things that. That felt really important to.

To tell other people about, things that felt like discipleship messages for the church, things needed to hear. And so I just began sort of jotting them down. And I didn't have an iPhone, obviously at the time.

Now I put everything in my notes app, but at the time I would just kind of type them out in my spare time or write them in a moleskin. And so eventually actually my mom and I that. That Wednesday night Bible study that we were teaching together, the women wanted.

Wanted more and they said this really would be so important to have on paper. Have you thought about turning it into a book? And that really became our first submission of a project.

And so my first book was actually co authored with my mother called the seven Hardest Things God Asks a Woman to Do. So very few people have ever read that book, but it was my first writing book.

And I will just say, although I'm probably boring people with this whole story, but I will say after that that I still Willow did not get the memo of like, maybe I'll be a career author speaking, writing Bible studies. I still didn't have that picture, I will tell you. I still didn't.

So I did eventually, probably three years later, go on to submit something that the Lord had put on my heart to a website, which became my first book with Thomas Nelson. But I didn't have an agent, I didn't know anyone.

I just submitted into this regular sort of contact field, an idea I had and someone contacted me and that's how it started.

Wow, that's amazing. I can so resonate with the craziness of that process. Cause I'm actually. I've self published many Bible studies. I think eight now.

But I have a book being published that's coming out in the next Month. And so just the whole hopping on a form of a publishing agency and being like, here we go. It feels like a long shot.

But do you have moments where you are pinching yourself this real, or do you feel this great sort of weight and responsibility? Like, I'm a teacher of God's Word, and that feels like a lot.

And now I have a lot of people reaching out where there's all of these needs and ministry opportunities. Or how do you look back?

I mean, you know, your Years later, you're 10 books in and you've impacted so many lives, and you have a podcast and online communities, and you're a ministry coach. And how do you look at it now? Are you just blown away by what God can do?

I love that question. I don't think I've ever been asked that. I think it's mostly the latter.

I do feel a great weightiness and responsibility to rightly divide the word, to utilize my gifts in the ways that God has called me to. In this moment especially. I can't redo the past. I can't, you know, change some of the mistakes that I've made.

Certainly I think, well, what if I'd done that differently or whatever. I'm trying to give grace for the woman that I was in the process of learning.

When, you know, when you have a volume of things that you've written and, you know, a track record of serving Jesus for 20 years, there's. There's wonderful things about that.

And those are also things that you cringe about because you think, wow, I've grown and I know more and, you know, but I'm trying to really love and embrace the.

The ways that God has changed and transformed me, rather than live in regret, but feel the weightiness, especially in this season, of what I know and what God has shown me and how he has changed me and developed me through the years. More responsibility than ever to be a really good and wise servant at this juncture.

I mean, if I, you know, I don't have the excuse of youth, I don't have the excuse of ignorance. I don't have any of those excuses. Do I have moments where I. I don't. I wouldn't say I live. I'm. I will say this. I'm. I'm slightly. I have the.

I don't want to say the curse, but it sort of is. I have the curse of overthinking and not being as fun as I wish that I was. So I wouldn't say I live with any kind of pinch me sort of realities.

That would be more of my husband, who's much more fun than I am. But. But I'm. I. I do have moments where I live in gratitude, where I look around at pictures and moment. Yes.

The volume of things that the Lord has given me to write and all that. And I say, God, I cannot even believe that this is where you've had me travel.

Like, if it all ended today, I would just be abundantly grateful for the things I've gotten to do. I mean, so undeserving of even one moment of this. How has this been my life?

Because, like I said, I was too ignorant to even imagine or dream any of it. So I think it's a. Both and.

But mostly a weightiness and responsibility to never give up and to keep going and to make sure that I'm being wise in this moment with what God has given me to do and say.

You mentioned something I don't want to pass by because I think so many people can resonate with this experience. You said that your dad was in public ministry and he had a fool. And I'm curious how you feel like that shaped you.

Did that make you hesitant to enter into ministry, or did it make you go, no, I want to take that experience and actually minister to people who have been wounded by the church or who have fallen and feel shame. Like, how did that shape how you minister now?

It's literally shaped every part of all of it. It shaped me personally and it shaped me ministerially. Both and. Which really can't be separated because you are all of it.

But I think in the first part of my life in ministry, it absolutely made me terrified to do any of it, which is probably part of the reason it took me so long to catch the memo that the Lord was calling me into some kind of public ministry. I just flat out didn't want to. I wrote before I was willing to speak for a long time because the platform terrified me to death.

I've seen what happens when someone is a gifted orator. I've watched that happen. I've seen the trajectory and what can happen when you become really good at a craft. And Jesus is in that.

So it terrified me for a long time. I wasn't sure if you could do both.

And my thought process was, if I've got to choose between one or the other, I want to choose a pure relational relationship with Jesus 10 out of 10 times, rather than some kind of platform. I don't need that. I don't want that. At a certain point, though, the Lord began to break me of that and convict me of that.

And so you're actually being disobedient in this season. You don't trust what I've called you to do.

And ultimately you don't have to trust yourself in this, Lysa, if you trust me, if you keep your eyes on me, I can keep you pure in what you're doing. Going to take accountability. It's going to take a close walk with me.

It's going to take a lot of things, but you don't have to choose between these two.

And so then in the latter part of my ministry, it has absolutely emboldened me to move forward in a way that all of that could be poured into helping people serve Jesus for the long haul with integrity, which is really what the birth of my ministry Strong was the reason why that came to be, because I wanted to help other ministry leaders serve Jesus with integrity for the long haul.

And so from that came everything from an intern ministry, which I then kind of poured into a group of 12 women, to cohorts, to all of those kinds of things where I could pour in in a smaller and more intentional way, coaching even as a part of that, and help folks with day to day things rather than just a large global ministry or, you know, the shotgun approach of even podcasting, which is wonderful, but it's different.

So, yeah, that's amazing. I love that you have allowed a hard story to shape who you are and how you invest in people and how you're building strength in their ministry.

It's so cool. You have a podcast called Jesus Over Everything. And I think there's a lot of, I mean, most Christian women might say, oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

Jesus over Everything. How do we slowly sort of quietly allow other things to sneak in that actually are become over Jesus in our lives?

Yeah, I think you said it. I think it is often a sort of before we know it type of situation in our lives.

You know, we don't necessarily mean to give priority to, you know, our phones or other relationships or social media or food or shopping or, you know, whatever the subject or the issue is. We don't mean to do that necessarily. I don't think most people necessarily willingly walk into sin.

But what we're really talking about is idolatry because, you know, it talks about in Colossians 1, that he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. That's really the premise of Jesus Over Everything. The book, the Bible study, and of course the podcast being formed from that.

That's Not a Lisa Whittle idea.

That is a formation of the world idea being built on the preeminence of Christ that not only is he first preeminent, but that it is the only way that our world and our lives, macro and micro, will work. It's the way that it was set up to be from the Creator that when we don't put him first, our lives simply don't work. They fall apart.

It is a life strategy.

So when you say something like Jesus over everything, it's awesome for a T shirt and a bumper sticker and a podcast name and all of those kinds of things. But in reality, Willow, it is the scriptural principle of the way that your life will not be complicated in the same way.

That doesn't mean your life won't be perfect, will be perfect because it won't be perfection. The side of heaven is not possible. But. But our lives are complicated because our priority order is out of whack.

So we know according to scripture that centering Jesus in our life is the most important thing. But also prioritizing him in our life is the most important thing because when anything is above him, it's out of creative order.

He is first and we must also put him first. And so I think what happens is in our daily life we simply just don't pay attention. We get used to our idolatry, we are settled into it.

And because we aren't really giving the proper time to the word and prayer and all of those things, maybe we do it as a check off our list or guilt ridden rather than really our heart longing to be with God. It's no wonder that other priorities get in the way. So it's really kind of a no brainer as to why it happens.

And the way we get back to it is we come back to the center and we seek the Lord out of a heart that wants him now, even if we don't want him right now in the way that will really help us. Recenter, I think the way we start is we say God right now you're not in first place. I can see that from the time, the way that I spend my time even.

But I want to will you help me get back there? And I think small prayers like that from a heart that really means it. God will honor that and will help.

What are some indicators for someone that their priorities are out of whack when it comes to Jesus over everything?

Yeah, I think that's a good question. When your life is pretty complicated and not again, our lives aren't going to be perfect.

But one of the things I write about in Jesus over everything in the first chapter, it's called the Land of the Deadly Overs.

And when I would catch myself being in sort of this place of some over behaviors, like over explaining myself, over apologizing, overindulging, meaning overeating, overspending, over doing it with Netflix or overdoing it with social media or whatever, overworking when I'm getting into an over behavior.

Whereas it is sort of bossing my life in a way that tells me that my priorities are out of whack and that tells me that I need to recalibrate in some way. It's the whole reason, and this is in the beginning of Jesus, over everything. I talk about my shopping fast.

It's the whole reason I did a shopping fast, because it was clear to me that my shopping was in an overindulgence type of a way. So it's not wrong to do most of the behaviors that we overdo.

It's just when they get to that place where they are the overmarked, that's when we know that our priorities are probably out of line.

Those are good things to revisit and come back to and ask ourselves some hard questions. I'm curious. When you think about people who.

They know God, they believe in God, and they even love God, but they have pushed God away because of shame or guilt. So they're kind of like just spending their, like, months or weeks or years of their life hiding in the garden, in a sense. Like, they're.

They're in shame and they're hiding, and they're just. They can hear his voice saying, where are you? And they're just not, like, coming into his presence because of how they feel.

Talk to us about the power shame and guilt have over our lives and how we can come back to God when we've been feeling them so strongly and pushing him away because of us.

It. Well, this is a. This is a topic I've actually been studying a lot recently because I believe that shame is a very underrated topic in the church.

I think that a lot of times we don't recognize what we're dealing with is actually shame. So we call it all kinds of different things. But I believe especially that.

That a great majority of our body struggles are actually shame that is left unaddressed. I studied this a lot because I wrote something called Body and Soul, which is a theological look at our bodies and how to.

I'm doing it right now, by the way.

Oh, awesome. Yeah. Well, it is, it's a whole body theology. So it's really like a foundational piece that most of us have never had.

We've just gone into body topics and how can I lose weight and all of those kinds of things. But most of the reason we struggle is because we've never had a biblical framework for it. And that's what this is.

Well, one of the things that I came to study when I was writing this was from Genesis 3, which is when of course, it talks about when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and their eyes became open and they saw that they were naked. And what's so interesting about this is this is really the first sort of breach between body and soul that happened.

We know that they already physically had sight because they were naming animals and they were tending to the garden. So we know that we can deduce that they already had physical sight. So this is a spiritual awareness that they had when their eyes were opened.

And so when they send, these things happen simultaneously. They obviously have a breach between them and God.

And they now, now are having this spiritual awareness which changes the way that they experience their body for the first time. And they are experiencing shame. This is the first actual record of this shame that you're talking about.

And the interesting thing is that the incarnate Christ, when Christ comes to earth, he takes on the physical form of the body, which is the very place that this sin happens. And this shame piece, this conduit of shame happens in the body.

And what is intended then to be the place of shame is the place that God comes in the form of, to then become the place of glory. And so I think for a lot of us, we are experiencing shame because we have had this sort of same experience of inside out shame with ourselves.

We're living in shame because of things that have happened to us either externally that we've processed internally, or internally that we've processed outward. And so it's this whole body experience. And, and one of the greatest ways that we can break from our shame is to really study.

And this is going to be very counter to what we've ever really thought of. We think of, well, let me do this process of 1, 2, 3, what is the practical.

But it is really studying how Christ came to earth to come in the physical form of a body and that this would then be redeemed as a place of glory.

And so we all have an opportunity to bring glory to God in our bodies, in our embodied life, even though we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. And we've all done things that maybe we feel ashamed of. We have to understand that we are not doomed to shame in our body.

So from this point forward, this could be a real moment of change for anybody. Whatever they've done can be forgiven, and they then can live to bring glory to God in this body that they live in.

And it's just a glorious opportunity to do so.

So I know that's kind of hard theologically to understand, which is why I wrote it in body and soul, but really important, because Satan wants to keep us bound in this place of shame.

The one who has the vested interest to do that is the one that wants to keep us from using our gifts, walking forward to help others in this world and live for the glory of God. And so shame benefits no one but Satan.

And so I really, really would love for people to understand that it's not something that anyone has to live with, even from this very moment forward.

Well, and certainly when we see Jesus life and we talk a lot around here about him colliding, when you see him colliding with people, he definitely goes out of his way to meet people who feel steeped in shame. The woman at the well, the woman caught in the act of adultery.

And he meets them in that place not to condemn them, but to actually redeem them as you're talking about, like, call them to something greater and forgive them and redeem them and send them on their way.

And so I'm curious for people listening who maybe have this reoccurring pattern or habit or addiction or idol or whatever it is where they engage it and they feel ashamed about it, and they push God away, and then they come to God and they ask God to forgive them, and they try not to engage it. And then they go back and it's this kind of like, our whole life starts to look like the Old Testament on replay.

What's your advice for letting go of the things that keep us stuck?

Well, sometimes you have to do something radical in order to break from an idol. I think that's where a lot of us go wrong. We want to sort of hold it in one hand and commit to doing something different in the other.

You have to hate something enough to let it go often. And when it comes to sin, that is critical. You know, how much do you hate the way something is controlling you?

I think we prove that to ourselves when we are willing to do whatever it takes to let go of it. You know, I think a lot of us say that, you know, we're tired of something.

But when you are truly tired of something, you will do whatever it takes to not let it control you anymore. The shopping fast is a perfect example for me. Did I want to go an entire year and not purchase anything clothing wise or things from my house?

Absolutely not. I was tempted. Like anybody else. I went on vacation during that time. I went into Target.

Although I got to the point where I knew I had to take some of those temptations out of my way so that I would be able to reach success.

When the Lord began to convict me When I was writing Body and Soul, I had past experience with restriction, with food, and part of my experience in my life had been with. I had an eating disorder. And a lot of things had to do with numbers. A lot of my problems with my body struggles had to do with numbers.

How much I weighed, what size I was, all those things. And so the Lord really called me to a place where I would no longer track things because he wanted to heal me from the inside out.

And so that means I got rid of my. My apple watch for a while. I couldn't do my apple watch for a while. I couldn't count calories for a while.

It was the Lord and I detoxing from my need to be about numbers.

And so I would just say, you know, if you're struggling with an idol and it's this repeat pattern, how willing are you to break from something that's killing you? How much do you hate it? Are you willing?

Because if we really hate something, we will hate it enough to let it go and to no longer have it controlling us. Because that thing is either for your benefit or it's for your detriment.

And if it's for your detriment, then you won't continually come up with excuses.

There's, you know, it's interesting, like sometimes you can tell you have an idol when you're constantly coming up with reasons to justify keeping it. When you hide it from other people so that they won't know that you have it.

And when the thought of losing it makes you grieve, that's when you can know that you have an idol.

Lisa, you have so much wisdom. I love it so much. You're coming out with your book. Come back to God and You're focused on soul revival.

What's the hope for people listening who maybe sense they need a soul revival?

Well, I don't want anyone to think that that is some big process. A soul revival is simple, really. It is coming to God.

Just as you are not trying to clean yourself up first, not trying to come with perfect words or some kind of fancy spiritual presentation, it is saying, God, here I am. I need you to help me. It is coming without pretense, and it's your heart. I mean, that's over and over.

In scripture, we are told that God wants our heart and he wants all of it.

And so coming back to God and having a soul revival starts with you coming and offering God your entire heart without holding back, without asking to keep part of it, and not telling him what you want him to do, what you're willing to do, what you're not willing to do, but just saying, God, here's my whole heart. You can have it. You can do whatever you want. I'm not going to put any parameters on this.

And if you come with that kind of a heart, that's the start of a soul revival right there. And I would just challenge someone, pray that for 30 days, here's my heart.

You can have all of it, do what you want to do, and sit in the silence with the Lord and let him speak to you, see what he has to offer to you. And I just think that you can't. There's no chance you won't be changed in 30 days.

If you come with that kind of a heart to the Lord, your soul will be revived in some way or another. Another.

I love that challenge. Thank you so much for hopping on today, Lisa. And I know there's women who are going to want to check you out, grab your books and all the things.

How can they do that?

Yeah, thanks for having me on. The easiest thing is Lisa Whittle dot com.

It kind of has everything between, you know, free stuff, where to find me to speak, Bible studies, books, and podcast things. I'm also on social media, but those are the easiest places.

I love it. Thank you so much.

Thank you,.

Friend. I don't know what you needed to hear today, but I highly encourage you to take Lisa up on that check challenge.

I know that I feel challenged to do so. Thirty days of praying, Lord, here's my heart. You can have the whole thing.

All the rooms and all the spaces within my heart, even the ones that I often keep from you, I give to you today. Will you move in? Will you clean up my heart? Will you revive my soul? Will you refresh me? Will you make me more like you?

Will you take away shame and regret and the things that hold me back? Will you help me make more space for you? I encourage you to pray a prayer like that for the next 30 days, friend.

If you need some help reorienting your life reprioritizing, make sure you go to wecollide.net we actually have an awesome devotional called All the Best that helps you choose what is best and how to know that it is. And that was a book that we grabbed several women contributors and created a devotional just for you. So make sure sure to check it out.

And if this podcast spoke to you and you think it might minister to a friend, share & subscribe!