The podcast delves into the multifaceted journey of Dr. Ryan Brunworth, a dentist with over two decades of experience, who shares both his triumphs and tribulations in the dental profession. Initially, Dr. Brunworth's career began with an acquisition of a dental practice shortly after his graduation from the University of Michigan. However, this rapid ascent was fraught with challenges, as he faced a steep learning curve in both clinical skills and business knowledge. He emphasizes the critical importance of mentorship and experience, suggesting that early-career dentists should seek guidance to navigate the complexities of practice ownership. His narrative reveals not only the operational hardships of managing a dental practice, particularly during the economic downturn of 2008, but also the personal toll that such stressors can exact on a practitioner. The discussion culminates a reflection on the lessons learned from his initial mistakes, ultimately leading to a renewed passion for dentistry as he embarks on his second chapter in the field, equipped with the insights gleaned from his earlier experiences.

Takeaways:

1. In this episode, we explore the significance of mentorship and experience for new dentists starting their practices.
2. Dr. Brunworth shares his journey of overcoming challenges, emphasizing the importance of resilience and adaptability in dentistry.
3. We emphasize the necessity of having robust insurance policies to safeguard against unforeseen circumstances in a dental career.
4. The discussion highlights the transition from clinical practice to alternative careers and the lessons learned from such experiences.

# Dr Ryan Brunworth Dental Story

And that's what we're gonna do today is I'm excited to welcome Dr. Ryan Brun to the show. And Dr. Brun, thanks for coming on and let's, let's just start right here. Uh. Let's give us a just a little rundown, uh, because we're going to be looking at the plans of the future, per se in this podcast, and you got quite a unique story.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Thanks for having me first of all. I, uh, a, a dentist of 20 years. I've had, uh, what I would call probably two chapters of my dental career with maybe what we can call a little sabbatical in between and we can kind of go into that a little bit.

**Phil Cole:** Nice.

right.

**Phil Cole:** yeah.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** You know, at that point I had to essentially change how I was practicing.

You know, I had to, had to. Pretty much work a lot harder and, and figure things out. I ended up going from working out of one and a half ops to, you know, working out of three ops at that point and had to figure out how to do dentistry faster so I could pay the bills. Again, made some mistakes along the way, but with that philosophy of, of always kind of treating people well, it, kind of kept my practice, kept growing again.

I know thereafter that, that we ran through a long period of time where dentists had to associates minimum of, of two years experience before they could even get a loan. That has since now changed and now it's gone back. We actually have, uh, doctors that are, you know, looking at banks year. I, we've got one that we just sold and then another one coming up right now that is nine months in and looking to buy it after their first year, you know, year in.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah, I would say garner as much experience as you can prior to jumping into that role. I think one of the biggest challenges when you're a new owner is, I mean, when, when you're right outta school actually you're, you're still learning things clinically. You, at least from my perspective, dental school gave me the basics, but there was a tremendous amount to learn.

Mm. After you graduate and I, I don't think you're comfortable just from a clinical side probably until like year three or four. You know, so when you're, when you're still learning so much clinically, but then you also throw on top of that. You know, you're learning how to run a business. I've never ran a business before.

Everybody knows that they don't give you much business training in dental school. Now, maybe that's changed a little more recently.

**Phil Cole:** No,

Uh, I kind of fell into this, uh, practice. We, it got along great. So it happened much sooner than I was anticipating. Um. But then the other thing too is just making sure you have good people in your corner, people to learn from, find a mentor locally. Or, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of mentors out there.

I know you, we offer that at KLAS Solutions as well. But you know, you need somebody in your corner that you can kind of, kind of brush ideas off of and like, learn things from, like maybe learn from the mistakes that they've already made so you don't have to make the same mistake.

So I think both from a clinical perspective and a business perspective, I wish I had more, uh, mentorship and people to run ideas off of from the beginning.

Or is that just something that if you're not listening to this podcast, you're not listening to some other podcasts or listening to some other, you know, newsletters, blogs, whatever that say that. You just don't know. I mean, I, I guess that's, you know what I'm saying? Like, how do you get people Yeah.

You guys, to understand how much of a necessity that is.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah, I think, I think one of the challenges, and I was in the same boat, a lot of dentists are high achievers and we're always very driven and we're kind of convinced ourselves that we can, maybe just figure it out on our own.

And we've got a lot of bills to pay at from right out of school. We have, we, you know, we have, I mean, student loans now are even much worse than, than where I was when I graduated. I had to put myself through school. So I know the, the, the, in, you know, the intensity of that debt payment or the weight of it and

**Phil Cole:** Right.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** You know, it, it, like I said, I mean there's, it's just a mi maybe a mindset shift. I think trying to be more open to, you know, reaching out for help from other people who've been there previously.

**Phil Cole:** I think that you've said it perfectly though, if no one paid attention or heard what you just said is, I think it's important to sit there and say is, is it is not that you're, it's not that you're gonna fail.

You, you just set yourself back in time. I mean, to be a profitable dentist, to pay yourself out of debt or get yourself out of debt, I should say, to, to be able to start setting yourself up for future success. You if you are not reaching out and you're not getting. The experience, from people that have been in the dental industry, uh, for a long time.

Then all that does is make you set yourself back maybe five years, 10 years, whatever the case may be, where if you took that, you could propel that into 18 months. 24 months maybe. And you now have someone that's always in your corner that could either be an accountability coach or could actually be someone that you just sit there and go, you know what, this is how I'm thinking.

Find if we could find information a lot easier. The challenge back then was you know, you kind of felt like you were in a little bit of a silo and you were trying, you know, you didn't have the networking to be able to help figure it out. Nowadays, I think it's kind of completely flipped. There's more information out there, and now the challenge is filtering out what, what is good information and right, who are the, who are the good people to get that information from?

And so I think it's, it's a different challenge, kind of a same challenge. It's just kind of flipped the script a little bit. There's almost too much information out there.

Now let's now, because you've had to, now you've upgraded your office you're working what I would say harder from what you are used to and stuff. All these things that we're kind of already talking about, kind of combine to take you to your next chapter. Right. And what and what is that? Yeah.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah. So, um, yeah, I went, when I built my new space, obviously overhead tremendously increased. So not only do I have my student loans, I have personal expenses, you know, your providing for your family. I think I had two kids at that point already. You know, those expenses add up, but you have to figure it out.

So it. Yes, it helped pay the bills. We figured it out. My practice started making money again, but long term, I mean, that's not necessarily a sustainable schedule. I was letting the schedule control me and you know, we didn't really have, at that point, I didn't have any, I, you know, structure in the schedule.

I didn't have block scheduling. I didn't have, the knowledge that I could give my office managers to schedule appropriately and we were just kind of just winging it essentially.

**Phil Cole:** Mm-hmm.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** And now there's so much more information about how you can control your schedule better and block scheduling and, you know, reserving time for emergencies.

It just makes the office flow so much better.

And it, it led to pretty severe burnout.

And I had a a dentist that pretty much took over my part of the practice and, you know, it was, it was great. I'm, I'm thankful for that, but a lot of people are gonna think this is a little crazy, but you know. Prior to dentistry, I had been involved in a fire, volunteer fire department, and I had always had an interest in public safety.

I don't want to talk about where I graduated physically, but, uh, but you know, right after that I ended up working for a couple of departments locally and. You know, I needed a reset at that point. I was done and I, I, uh, didn't see in my mind that there was another option, you know, everybody could tell me till they were blue in the face, how crazy I was.

And looking back on it, obviously it was crazy. And I definitely don't recommend people leaving dentistry and, and going to the police academy. However it was a great experience for me. It allowed me to hit the reset button. Right. And, you know, I got involved in some, some crazy stuff, you know, drug, drug arrests, DUIs.

**Phil Cole:** bet you bet you you didn't expect that when you were, uh, sitting chairside and then you go from chairside to two days later, wrestling a, uh, naked guy.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah, no kidding. Talk about a, talk about a change of pace in a completely different field. And I mean, you know, people hate the dentist, but turns out they hate. Cops too. So who knew? Yeah, just kidding.

**Phil Cole:** So, so the love didn't, uh, change too much towards, uh, either profession?

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** No. I mean, you go from, uh, you know, sitting in the dental chair getting spit on all day to, you know, occasionally getting spit on as a cop too.

It makes you realize dentistry ain't all that bad. It is we are blessed to have such a great profession and I can't say that loudly enough. Like we yes. A lot of things in dentistry are, are very difficult. You're doing, if you're a business owner and a dentist, you're doing two full-time jobs.

It. You're the main producer, the main business owner. You're the buck stops with you. Yes, it can be difficult. There's difficult days. Not everybody loves coming to the dentist, but I will tell you what dentistry's hard, I. Police work is harder and I lived it. It allowed me to see that the grass wasn't greener.

And still owner of that practice. But I can talk about that as well, if you'd like.

**Phil Cole:** Yeah, no, I was just gonna go back real quick though, 'cause I, I just think that when you said, you know, that, that. Difficult, not greener on the other side. Right. I think that that's something that, uh, I, we come across on the coaching side of the things all the time.

You always work the problem, and if you're always working the problem, the problem will never. Exist. Because, yeah. And it, to me, a lot of people when I tell people that, they're like, that's just dumb. What does that mean? And it, but it is so true is, is because I used to be a teacher, right?

And I resigned from teaching 'cause I was just like, I cannot handle, I was not in a good spot. Really troublesome kids, different things like that. Um, and then the parents. Blew my mind more than the kids. So for me it was just like, I, I, this is not for me, but looking back at it, it was for now, me being in dental for and medical for 30 plus years I sit there and go, man, same thing when I hear people say, you know.

But I think that that's the big thing with that, I would say that I would like to leave with people, uh, with dentists today that are listening to the podcast or even office managers, whoever's listening to it. I, I just, I'm, I stick with that, with my mentor that told me that. And that is the big thing is, is never let a problem be something that you complain about and that's all you do.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah, 100%. And I'll add like. As dentists, a lot of times, especially like if you have, if you're in it to like actually care for people, you know, you can, 99% of the of things that happen during the day usually go well and it's 1%. That might go wrong, that open margin on that crown, or you know, a light contact.

And then what happens is, at least this is what happened to me. I would focus on that 1% and I would let that beat me up over and over again. And then, now I, I just think, man, why did I focus on just the 1% of things that went wrong during that time when 99% of the stuff went great and I had amazing feedback from patients and, but it was that 1% that I let beat me up and over and over again.

**Phil Cole:** Yeah I, I think that's exactly it. I mean, it's just, we're, so, I know that you and I have talked before about this, um, and we've had this conversation, but I remember, um, meeting with a motivational speaker and he once always said.

Um, and, and then of course there's Zig Ziglar too is one of my favorites. Old time guy. But he always said, I, you know, you, you can't allow for stinking thinking. And I think that, and then there was another gentleman that I, that, uh, I met and his thing was, is don't steal my joy. And he always was a big person of is you have to be.

And I think that's the thing is, is when I'm talking with Dennis all the time. Some of the things that they bring to me, whether it be in a transition world, a coaching world, marketing world and stuff, it to them, you can just see it just weighing on them. They feel like they're carrying, you know, a thousand pound gorilla on their back, and I'm thinking it really isn't that big of a deal.

It's pretty quick fix. And I think that that's, once again, that what you're talking about is, is you know. Not if you would've been able to now look back or you are able to look back, I should say. But if you were able to look back a little bit quicker, you probably wouldn't have spent so much time on that negative instead of, and letting it consume you.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** Yeah. Yeah. And don't be afraid to find someone, whether it be a coach or a mentor that can see things outside of your perspective. Um, I think those, some of the closest friends you have challenge you a little bit, and I think it's important to have that in your corner where they are seeing things a little bit differently and you're not afraid to.

You can't be afraid to take that advice or you can't be too proud to take it and

**Phil Cole:** ah, good one.

**Dr. Ryan Brunworth:** And, and that's, that's a, you know, when I started my second chapter of dentistry, I vowed that I was gonna do things differently. I wasn't gonna let the 1%, I affect 99% of my day, and I wasn't going to run an office without good systems in place.

And you know, looking back, I don't know how I was so successful in the first one. I know it beat me up a little bit, but it's, uh, it, it's been a blessing to have the second chapter and had reinvigorated and reinvigorated my love for dentistry again.

**Phil Cole:** Okay. But now, once again, second chapter.

Second chapter has a little bit of a stumbling block, roadblock, whatever you want to call it, because now you're gonna, you're gonna tell us a little, little bit now of the, of that problem and working the problem. But on the other hand, this is a problem that I will say, I get dentists over and over, over again when I talk to 'em, say, it'll never happen to me.

What is your situation?

Now, I can't say that I disagreed because it wasn't necessarily. The safest thing to keep doing when I was having difficulty with that stability and everything in dentistry is fine motor stuff. Thankfully it's not anything that tremendously affects my daily life, but I was diagnosed with an essential action tremor, what they call it, and still seeking treatment.

So thankfully I was able to get into the Cleveland Clinic and that's coming up here in the next few months. So I don't know exactly what the future holds in that. Prepared for either, either decision thankful that I have, you know, interest in doing other things as well. If you don't mind, I can tell I.

That story, how that came about.

**Phil Cole:** Yeah. I mean, go ahead. That's fine.

Now what I will say is I wish I was a little bit more prepared as dentists. We think none of this could ever happen to us. So obviously I, I didn't have the best disability policy. Thankfully I had one. I did not have short-term disability, which I highly recommend if you don't have it. Um. But I, like I said, I, I'm thankful that I went through that process with that group at the time because it's, it's been tremendously helpful during this time.

And something kept nudging me to reach out and I think it was. 24 hours later after I reached out to you, we were sitting across the table together, having great conversation. And proud to say, now that I'm a part of KLAS Solutions of the Dental Transitions consultant and excited for this next chapter, I don't wanna use my story as a negative.

Like, I'm not expecting, I don't want any pity parties. I'm using it as a a bump to push me into something that I know that I can. And have been successful at in the past.

But I mean, disability, and I think that that's very important. And, and I'm so glad that you came on and are, are willing to, because I've talked to some dentists and they're unwilling to talk about their story, but I'm glad that you came on to talk about the story because I think that it needs to, that the story needs to come from a dentist like you that's, that has, had the problem.

For them to sometimes agree with the, to, to understand or believe it, I should say. Maybe that's the best word to say, because when we talk to 'em as a non-dentist saying, this guy, this is what we run across, it's kind of like, yeah, that's not gonna happen to me. But you know, nothing is farther from the truth because you just don't know.

It's not that it's, it's just that those are just common facts and I think that it's very. Very important to understand because when we're dealing with transitions, when we're dealing with buyer advocates and buyers and we're like, Hey, you need to get, do I really need to get disability insurance? This really exp and they go to these guys and they, here are the numbers and it's, that's really expensive.

Do I have to get life insurance? Do I have to get this insurance? It's always for us. Yes. If you want to be totally prepared. For your future? Yes. Would you agree with that?

It's part of the reason I didn't have short-term disability. You just don't know. I mean, it can be one car accident away from losing your source of income. You're losing your source of protecting your family or providing for your family and it. I can't stress it enough. It's very important. Like it is not comfortable sharing my story, right?

But if my story can help at least one dentist out there that's listening yes, it could happen to you. So make sure you're looking at all that. Make sure you're looking, you know, I, I'll even add to that, like, there, there's. Death can happen too at any time. We don't like to think about it, right?

How do I, what do I do with this business? How do we protect ourselves? You know, there's so much value in, in being prepared that you don't think you need to be prepared for.

**Phil Cole:** Yeah, I, yeah, I don't know how else to say it because that is exactly what it is, is you just, you don't, insurance is basically that you hope that you never use it.

You never want to pay that much for it. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. But you don't, but you pray that you never have to use it. But ma'am, when you do it, use it. I mean, just. For us, for our company last year, out of all the transitions we did, we went back and looked and said, what were the reasons for the transitions?

The lifetime practice valuation does exactly what you said. It's putting your family first so they know exactly what to do with that valuation. If something was to happen that you were to die disability wise, with our valuations, our valuations. Aren't just valuations. We're diving in deep and we're making sure that you're covered because to us, there's three important things that people need to know.

But then there's the financial piece. So you need to know, and the family needs to know what that financial piece is, and then the practice, like you said. What do you do with the practice? Who do, who is the next person in line that I should talk to? How do I run it? We had one in Holland, Michigan where the doctor passed away, and it was through just a referral that they said, we were told that we should, it was another dentist that was best buddies with them, said, I was told to reach out to you, you know how to handle this.

And so we worked through the whole problem and everything for 'em to get them where they needed to be and stuff. But yeah, I mean, that's. The thing is, is, is is once again, the family, the emotional side of things is the family's crushed. We have one right now in South Carolina that we're working on, and the father, the owner died.

And so I think that once again, I cannot thank you enough because I, like I said, there's a lot of people that I asked to tell their story, and they don't want to tell their story because they're just like, it doesn't, I, I just, I don't wanna talk about. But if you don't hear it, I don't think that a lot of times people will ever get the impression that it's going to happen to them, and it could at any moment.

'cause you are 48, correct?

It's just the peace of mind knowing that you have a plan. If something happens to you and you can't work suddenly and you have no plan, it's much harder to dig yourself outta that hole and your practice value. Plummets at that point. And if you have a, if you have a plan in place, it is much easier to dig yourself out of that.

Uh, for example, the lifetime practice valuation, could you imagine how much longer it's gonna take if you didn't have any of that stuff prepared and then something happened to you? Well, each week that passes, the buyer's going to get a discount on that. Practice over time because, you know, you weren't prepared.

**Phil Cole:** I think the other thing is too, is for those who are listening, um, at least you know, once again, the shameless plug to my company, but I didn't, I don't consider ourselves brokers we're transition consultants.

And the idea of, of what I wanna make sure is, is taking these experiences, the 26 years plus the other years of the medical industry as well, taking all these examples and stories. That's why I always am very proud to say that in our company we have over 300 years of experience, uh, in the dental medical world.

I don't have your experience, but now I do have your experience because you're able to share that with everybody no differently that when you're talking to somebody you haven't had the experience, the coach's experience that we can bring in and the different things that we do. I, I just think that that's one of those important things and, and like you've mentioned a couple times in this podcast making sure that you're picking the right people.

Are there, have that work with dental and healthcare primarily, but also are the ones that we've vetted for you already. We know that these people care about you and it's not trying to sell you a disability policy so that they can get a, an extra commission because it was tier two versus, tier one.

You know what I mean?

And Bill, I'm excited to be a part of it for sure.

**Phil Cole:** I appreciate it. We keep going on. I know that there's more stories 'cause you and I have talked, we could have made this a three hour podcast, but we gotta make sure that, uh, they probably gotta check in for work right now to go see their patients and stuff.

But I really greatly appreciate you being on sharing the story. I know it's tough, uh, but I hope that, uh, the people listening this goes out and, uh, really means something to them. Those of you who are listening, thanks for listening and, and make sure that you review, uh, share this podcast. Podcast, get your friends buddies to follow us at the Dental Business Podcast.

And with that, we wish everyone a great day. Until next time.