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S1 E29: Please, just give a girl a chance (Amber / @AmberLeeTech)
Episode 2927th December 2022 • WebJoy • Eddie Hinkle
00:00:00 00:25:30

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Amber joins the show to talk about her origin story, from studying economics and accounting to learning how to program, becoming a software engineer and now co-hosting the Glowing in Tech podcast.

We discuss the challenges of getting into tech as a career switcher, and the 4 types of imposter syndrome. She shares about how she started interviewing for technical degrees and jobs too early, but what she learned from that journey.

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Eddie:

Welcome to episode 29 of the web joy podcast.

Eddie:

I'm your host Eddie.

Eddie:

In this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and what

Eddie:

makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community.

Eddie:

I hope you enjoy today's episode.

Eddie:

Please just give a girl a chance with Amber Shand.

Eddie:

Welcome to another episode of Web Joy.

Eddie:

I'm excited to have Amber with us today.

Eddie:

Amber, say hi to the nice people listening.

Eddie:

Hello everyone.

Eddie:

. Awesome.

Eddie:

Well, thank you for coming on the podcast.

Eddie:

I'd love to take a couple minutes to have you just kind of explain who

Eddie:

you are, what you do, where you work.

Eddie:

You know, a brief intro.

Eddie:

Cool.

Amber:

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Amber:

It's amazing to be here.

Amber:

So a bit about me.

Amber:

So my name's Amber.

Amber:

I come from an economics and accounting degree.

Amber:

So I actually was learning how to code in my second year of

Amber:

university when I did a mergers and acquisitions internship in Madrid.

Amber:

And I realized that finance definitely was not for me.

Amber:

then?

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Went through Coach First Guard, retrained through there in 2020.

Amber:

During the pandemic, I started taking a lot more seriously, and now I'm

Amber:

an award-winning front-end engineer.

Amber:

I also have a podcast called Glowing in Tech, where I co-host alongside Jesse,

Amber:

where we showcase black women in tech.

Amber:

Also have a blog@amand.co uk and I think that's it.

Eddie:

That's awesome.

Eddie:

Well, it sounds like you've been busy.

Eddie:

Yeah, definitely.

Eddie:

. I think no one would blame you for wanting to shift into tech after dealing

Eddie:

with a merger and an acquisition.

Eddie:

Internship.

Eddie:

Doesn't sound particularly fun, but I guess in the midst of that,

Eddie:

you ended up shifting to tech.

Eddie:

What was it that.

Eddie:

kind of made you think when you realized, this isn't what I want

Eddie:

to do, how did you realize mm-hmm tech is what you wanted to do?

Eddie:

Oh, that's

Amber:

such a good question.

Amber:

I think that at the time there was a lot of really scary news about automation

Amber:

taking over jobs and how like, You know, professions that we admire,

Amber:

like lawyers, doctors, surgeons, and all these other well respected roles,

Amber:

were now g going to be automated by like AI and all these scary things.

Amber:

And I was like, darling, I don't have time for this . So . So I research

Amber:

into like high in demand skills cuz I wanted to, I just need to be protected.

Amber:

I.

Amber:

Darling's.

Amber:

I don't wanna be a victim of technology.

Amber:

I want to be like on the side of it, like actually building it.

Amber:

And then that's how I found about coding and I was like,

Amber:

what, what is this thing else?

Amber:

So I was just so confused.

Amber:

But, um, that's when, we'll code First Girls.

Amber:

I did the web development course, you know, a cheeky little h email, c s s.

Amber:

The bare basics.

Amber:

And I was out here saying that I was a web developer, so when it, I was like,

Amber:

yes, darling, this coding thing is just, this is what they were talking about

Amber:

And then when I was applying for rolls, I was like, JavaScript . No

Amber:

one said anything about that , and, and at the time there wasn't a big.

Amber:

Like frenzy, I wanna say overreact, but I was just so shocked at like

Amber:

the huge barrier to entry that there was compared to like finance.

Amber:

We can say I'm passionate about numbers.

Amber:

And there wasn't necessarily the whole data structures and algorithms interviews

Amber:

proving yourself before landed that role.

Amber:

Like I didn't have to have like a project list of all the accounts

Amber:

that I've balanced to prove that, you know, I can be an accountant.

Amber:

So that was just a huge shift.

Amber:

I just couldn't comprehend the fact that now these interviews were gonna

Amber:

be super, it's really challenging.

Amber:

And I kept having that barrier of, oh, but you don't have a computer science.

Amber:

Why do you wanna do this ? I'm like, please just give a, go a chance.

Amber:

. . Eddie: Yeah.

Amber:

I guess how did you, how did you deal with that, right?

Amber:

Obviously, you ran into this.

Amber:

Interview type stages that it's intimidating for all of us, right?

Amber:

No matter if it's been a year or 10 years.

Amber:

In tech.

Amber:

You obviously made it.

Amber:

You pushed through , you got the job.

Amber:

How did you approach that?

Amber:

What was kind of the thing that kind of ticked over in your mind where you

Amber:

were like, all right, I can do this.

Amber:

And, and everything.

Amber:

So with Code First Girls, that was a great instruction to

Amber:

web development as a concept.

Amber:

And then we also had the Python course, which actually introduced us to the

Amber:

concept of APIs and things of that region.

Amber:

But I had no clue what was going on, so I went back to university to finish

Amber:

off my economics and accounting degree, and then, 20, 20 March the pandemic hit

Amber:

and I was just like, what is going on?

Amber:

like I was, I was so in denial.

Amber:

I was like, to my friends, look darlings, it's going to be fine.

Amber:

But then I realized I really need to take this coding thing seriously because

Amber:

I'd been applying for graduate schemes.

Amber:

From August, 2019 and I kept getting rejected and the only a

Amber:

few I got through one of them, they were like, you know what?

Amber:

Don't stress out about, you know, the test.

Amber:

And then it was, I, no one had told me at this point about

Amber:

data structures and algorithms.

Amber:

So all I'm seeing is binary research tree.

Amber:

What's this one?

Amber:

Oh no.

Amber:

And I'm.

Amber:

All I know is all I know at this point is basically H M L C S S like, and a

Amber:

bit of Python, but not to the extent of knowing how to reverse a binary

Amber:

research tree or to steal these things.

Amber:

I was like, what's this tree that they're talking about?

Amber:

? I was, I was so confused, and it was a real wake up call that I

Amber:

probably can't balance my degree and actually learning how to.

Amber:

because it was too much of a learning curve for me to do both, and it

Amber:

was my final year of university and things were getting really tough.

Amber:

So the pandemic hit and now like I've got a lot of time and that's when I joined

Amber:

the Sky Getting to Tech Scheme, which is a 14 week part-time course with Skye.

Amber:

And that was great because I had the power of community so we were all

Amber:

learning together, which was great.

Amber:

And I was also teaching with Code First Girls.

Amber:

I was teaching the words button course cuz remember I was saying

Amber:

I know about H one CSS at least.

Amber:

And I was looking at cuz the thing.

Amber:

A big feedback that was I was getting was one, I didn't have a computer

Amber:

science degree, so I didn't get through like most of like past the CV stage.

Amber:

So I was stalking people on LinkedIn who had a computer science degree

Amber:

and how can I stand out against them?

Amber:

And like a few of them had taught with Code First Girls.

Amber:

So I thought, okay, great.

Amber:

Two and one, you know, accelerating my learning.

Amber:

Giving back to the community, but then also like being able to put stuff in my

Amber:

CV and say, look, I'm technical enough if I'm able to at least be involved

Amber:

in this, in teaching a coding course.

Amber:

Right.

Amber:

That's awesome.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Thank you.

Amber:

And so my whole thing was, okay, I need to kind of build up my brand

Amber:

at the same time that having solid proof that I can actually code my

Amber:

projects teaching and be involved in this community because it meant.

Amber:

There's that accountability.

Amber:

I think that it can be quite a lonely route.

Amber:

Learning how to code and face all these hurdles and all these

Amber:

things that you see on Twitter.

Amber:

Roadmap to land your first straw and then it's like H M L C S S, JavaScript

Amber:

React testing like data shots now.

Amber:

And it's so overwhelming.

Amber:

I remember feeling so stressed.

Amber:

It is.

Amber:

I was like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to, to actually land that

Amber:

role because it was so stressful.

Amber:

But it also, like I was para programming with my friend, we

Amber:

pray, programmed every day from like 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM for like.

Amber:

Two months on Code Wars.

Amber:

Wow.

Amber:

And it was so helpful because she was better than me and when it's

Amber:

amazing me to find someone better than you, cuz it means that they

Amber:

can explain certain concepts to you.

Amber:

And, and it was just probably the one of the most amazing experiences because

Amber:

it taught me how to think like a coder.

Amber:

I just didn't, when I saw like those little mini, like the basic cat.

Amber:

I was, how am I meant to know that an array is the thing that I

Amber:

need to use to solve this problem?

Amber:

How do I know about the various different methods when it comes

Amber:

to various different data types?

Amber:

That whole concept was super confusing.

Amber:

So I think that the power of community definitely accelerated my learning

Amber:

growth, and I had a lot of help when it came to preparing for interviews as.

Amber:

, which was amazing.

Eddie:

Yeah.

Eddie:

I think, like you said, problem solving, right?

Eddie:

And understanding what tools to apply to different situations.

Eddie:

It's all about actually encountering those situations where like you need to

Eddie:

use that tool and having someone there to be able to say, Hey, this situation

Eddie:

is where I, you, you would use this and this one is where I'd use that.

Eddie:

I love that, that, that definitely, I can see how that would

Eddie:

speed up the learning process.

Amber:

And it's like when you are getting that kind of rejection,

Amber:

it can be easy for you to be put off of still applying for roles.

Amber:

And the thing is, I know that I applied way too early who told me to apply

Amber:

for computer science graduate skills when I only knew H O C S S basically.

Amber:

But I feel like I would definitely apply early cuz it gives you a great insight

Amber:

into what you need to prepare for.

Amber:

So I remember applying for the scheme and someone asked me about GI.

Amber:

And I was like, we've just used GitHub desktop.

Amber:

Like I was like, I know about the whole pulling and pushing concept,

Amber:

but I didn't know about GI commands.

Amber:

And so after that interview I basically wrote down all of the

Amber:

questions that she asked me.

Amber:

I made sure to learn everything.

Amber:

That's cuz it's like, clearly I know that with, well at the time

Amber:

I didn't know the importance of.

Amber:

So I've reached out to a few software developers.

Amber:

I knew, I was like, is this something that I really need to learn?

Amber:

Is it like the whole binary research tree thing?

Amber:

Which I'm just not going to be

Amber:

I'm just, I'm just not gonna delve in, like, is this actually

Amber:

something I need to know?

Amber:

And it was like confirmed like, yes, you'll be using this tool every day.

Amber:

You need to know how to use a terminal.

Amber:

and I was like, terminal commands . But yeah, it, it's honestly a great way to

Amber:

focus on the things that you actually need to learn to learn that role and things

Amber:

that are relevant within that role as

Eddie:

well.

Eddie:

Yeah, I think that's utilizing, putting yourself into a position a little

Eddie:

bit earlier than you might do it.

Eddie:

Hopefully that also could take pressure off, like if someone knows,

Eddie:

okay, I'm not actually expecting to.

Eddie:

, get into graduate school right now or get a job right now, but that I'm just

Eddie:

putting myself in this position to learn what people are looking for and like,

Eddie:

yeah, hopefully that takes a little bit of the pressure off, you know,

Eddie:

they can just think of it as practice.

Eddie:

I think that's awesome.

Eddie:

Yeah, exactly.

Eddie:

One of the things that we try to talk about every episode is

Eddie:

something that brings you joy.

Eddie:

, what is it that kind of brings you joy?

Eddie:

Oh my gosh,

Amber:

there's so many different things.

Amber:

One of my missions is definitely to get more women into tech, like wherever that's

Amber:

through, learning how to code or whatever.

Amber:

But I think that's why I've been so heavily involved in various different

Amber:

communities, like Code First Girls and Code Black females, and just to

Amber:

see their development as they go from, you know, just being quite confused.

Amber:

, what's a variable?

Amber:

What are like basic like four loops and things like that to

Amber:

actually landing their first role.

Amber:

And I think that there's a lot of courses out there about how to

Amber:

code, but there's a lot of things that aren't necessarily focused.

Amber:

Like there's not a big focus on like just how much imposter syndrome may

Amber:

impact you even applying for jobs and when you apply for those jobs.

Amber:

And I've been doing a lot more research into things like composite syndrome and

Amber:

how that shows up in various different.

Amber:

And like how it's definitely affected me.

Amber:

So one way is the expert.

Amber:

So sometimes when you feel like you never know enough, how can I apply for a role

Amber:

when I'm not proficient at JavaScript?

Amber:

But then how was that measured?

Amber:

You know?

Amber:

Or it's like the perfectionist, they have super high expectations.

Amber:

Like, I don't want to go to an interview if I can't answer those questions.

Amber:

There have been times in interviews where I've said, I dunno the answer.

Amber:

I remember, I was like, I'm sorry, I, I actually dunno the answer to this.

Amber:

And it's so uncomfortable.

Amber:

It's so awkward, and I can understand how that can actually take an effect on

Amber:

your confidence because I'm someone that has very high expectations for myself.

Amber:

So the fact that I'm here telling this person, I don't have a clue.

Amber:

It just makes you feel very vulnerable.

Amber:

And I remember.

Amber:

Having the worst interview of my life, and I'm screaming, like, I'm

Amber:

literally screaming afterwards.

Amber:

Like, that was the world's worst interview also, um, PO as

Amber:

you know, the natural genius.

Amber:

So, so there's a thing called GSCs, which is for like, I wanna say 11

Amber:

year olds to 16 year olds in the.

Amber:

Those came very easy to me.

Amber:

And because that kind of instilled this, I should get things on

Amber:

the first try kind of thing.

Amber:

Mm, yeah.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Like when I'm like learning how to code, I'm like, why do I need

Amber:

to look back at this fall loop?

Amber:

Like, why can't I just learn it once and then it's just in here?

Amber:

and like, um, sometimes I was even talking about this in Twitter

Amber:

space today when people say, oh, how'd you get so good at coding?

Amber:

And the answer for everything, how to good, good at anything

Amber:

is time and consistency.

Amber:

But everyone wants that kind of hack.

Amber:

Like, I wanna get good in six days.

Amber:

How can I get 10 years of developer experience in six days?

Amber:

Is there like kind of some cheat form that I can do?

Amber:

And then also the soloist and they're the person that kind

Amber:

of says, oh, I can't ask for.

Amber:

Or any questions cuz it just exposes the fact that I really am an imposter.

Amber:

So it's just like having those conversations with people and delving

Amber:

deep into what's holding you back from maybe learning how to code, progressing

Amber:

in that, applying for jobs and Yeah.

Amber:

And even when you are in that job, like how that's affected, I think that it's

Amber:

very rewarding for me to see people develop and that makes me extremely

Eddie:

happy.

Eddie:

I love, that's something that you like to talk about and get out there cuz I.

Eddie:

If someone were to draw a caricature of a programmer, I would probably match it.

Eddie:

I've been nerdy since I grew up.

Eddie:

I wear glasses, right?

Eddie:

. I match every little checkbox that someone would expect of,

Eddie:

like a caricature of a programmer.

Eddie:

I had a lot of imposter syndrome because I would just feel like these

Eddie:

other people are better than me.

Eddie:

You know what I mean?

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

like and like as soon as someone else would like point out something

Eddie:

or like do some really good.

Eddie:

It somehow made my work feel less good.

Eddie:

Right.

Eddie:

Less, even though it was different and it's like, I don't know how I got wrapped

Eddie:

up in that, but it was just one, something I kind of kept internally for a long

Eddie:

time, like I didn't tell anyone about it.

Eddie:

It was just like kind of that little secret that like hangs on your shoulder

Eddie:

and kind of weighs you down and.

Eddie:

. I can only imagine this was 10 years into programming.

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

, you know, it wasn't like year one.

Eddie:

Wow.

Eddie:

If being in the industry that long, like I can feel it.

Eddie:

I can only imagine all the imposter syndrome that everyone trying to get

Eddie:

into tech feels and like how lonely that is to not know that we all feel it and

Eddie:

like this is how you can push through.

Eddie:

So, no, I think that's such a great.

Eddie:

Area to focus on and to help people.

Eddie:

I really love that, that you're focusing on that.

Amber:

Yeah, and it's just like, especially come from a

Amber:

non-technical background when you are hounded with messages, like

Amber:

why are you getting into tech?

Amber:

Like you are almost questioned about your intentions and having that message.

Amber:

Well, at least for me, oh, you're not technical enough.

Amber:

And so it's just like having that, almost like when you go into a relationship,

Amber:

all this baggage, it's like I'm going to this job of all this baggage of like

Amber:

me feeling like companies have told me that I'm just not good enough and

Amber:

I'm going, and I'm starting this role.

Amber:

And I'm like, oh my gosh, am I even good enough?

Amber:

Because I keep being told I'm not technical.

Amber:

How did I manage to land this role?

Amber:

And it's just like sometimes you feel like you're always having to prove

Amber:

that, okay, I am technical enough.

Amber:

I do know what I'm.

Amber:

But as a junior, you don't know what you are doing, , you dunno what you're doing.

Amber:

And no one really ever knows what they're doing, . And it's the

Amber:

the hardest thing to navigate.

Amber:

And it's so complicated.

Amber:

There's so many different layers to this, and it's just like, I've

Amber:

been very fortunate in both my roles that I've had a very supportive and

Amber:

inclusive team, but genuinely, because I promise you, if they weren't, I

Amber:

wouldn't have said anything , but.

Amber:

Some people don't have that, so it's like they don't feel like they can

Amber:

open up to their work colleagues.

Amber:

They don't feel like they can be vulnerable with their managers.

Amber:

It's hard for them to actually address their pain points and how

Amber:

like their company or their manager or their team can support them.

Amber:

I think that can be one of the hardest things to actually manage.

Amber:

Like, oh my gosh, now I'm in the role.

Amber:

What the hell am I doing?

Amber:

? Eddie: No, that's a good point.

Amber:

Right?

Amber:

A lot of focus can be how do you learn programming?

Amber:

How do you get into the job?

Amber:

And then you get into the job and it's like that's almost an area where people

Amber:

kind of almost lose that support.

Amber:

They're suddenly like, oh, well now I got the job.

Amber:

I can't say I don't know what I'm doing.

Amber:

I can't ask questions, and they can kind of.

Amber:

Flounder a little bit in that first job, not knowing what to do.

Amber:

Yeah, and the thing is, it's like asking questions is what they

Amber:

expect and they don't necessarily expect that much from junior developers.

Amber:

Mm-hmm.

Amber:

. And it's the most confusing thing because, so you're told before the job.

Amber:

Okay.

Amber:

You need to know all these things to land this role.

Amber:

And then when you're in the role, it's like we don't expect you to know anything.

Amber:

You don't, you don't have a clue.

Amber:

You are just a junior.

Amber:

And it's how do you go from one extreme to the other?

Amber:

Just let me know because I don't get it , I

Eddie:

don't get it.

Eddie:

Yeah, no, for sure.

Eddie:

I think it's so interesting.

Eddie:

As people are junior, I hope that people can really embrace asking questions

Eddie:

because like it should never leave.

Eddie:

At my last company, I was managing a team of all senior engineers,

Eddie:

but like you have engineers who have to learn the code base, right?

Eddie:

They have to learn the like industry you're in, right?

Eddie:

We were in cybersecurity.

Eddie:

Then you had people, like I hired some people who knew React and they were good

Eddie:

at React, but we were using Angular.

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

, like I kept having to tell them.

Eddie:

I know you're a senior engineer, but like it's okay to ask question and

Eddie:

at some point I kind of just started saying, Hey, listen, in your first 90

Eddie:

days, that's your permission to ask every question that enters your mind.

Eddie:

Yes, you can ask questions after the first 90 days, but like you

Eddie:

shouldn't be withholding yourself from.

Eddie:

Asking any question in the first 90 days, cuz that's like your

Eddie:

free ticket to ask questions.

Eddie:

Yeah.

Eddie:

Like everyone expects questions in the first 90 days.

Eddie:

I think that's definitely like take advantage of those first 90 days.

Eddie:

Like everyone knows you're new, ask every question . Yeah.

Eddie:

And

Amber:

I think people need more managers like that to communicate.

Amber:

Okay.

Amber:

It's very normal to ask questions like this is something that we celebrate

Amber:

within the organization because if people aren't told that, it's just

Amber:

like they normally do internalize.

Amber:

Oh, okay.

Amber:

If I ask a question, then it's just going to, again, like what we're

Amber:

speaking about, the soloist, oh, it's going to expose that I really am an

Amber:

imposter, and what questions are good questions and is this a stupid question?

Amber:

I don't wanna ask stupid questions.

Amber:

In this big meeting of like 50 people in this zoom call, it can

Amber:

be quite stressful for people.

Amber:

I was very fortunate in my first role as a junior software engineer.

Amber:

The director used to always ask questions.

Amber:

You knew that if he was in a meeting, he would have some question to ask,

Amber:

and it kind of gives you that safety to know that, well, if this director's

Amber:

asking these questions, then I can definitely ask the questions and.

Amber:

You know, it's not an all nothing thing.

Amber:

The great thing about hybrid working is that you can type a question.

Amber:

I didn't necessarily appreciate because I was doing all these

Amber:

things during the pandemic.

Amber:

I didn't necessarily appreciate the fact that these things

Amber:

all used to be in person.

Amber:

I can't imagine doing a standoff in person , like I've never had to do it.

Amber:

And so I can imagine that could be even more anxiety inducing.

Amber:

Everyone looking at you.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Right.

Amber:

And you are saying, well, what the hell was I doing yesterday?

Amber:

Cause I didn't have a clue.

Amber:

just trying to like go through the code base and do my best to navigate like

Amber:

whatever ticket that I was assigned.

Amber:

So yeah, I didn't necessarily appreciate just how different it was pre pandemic.

Eddie:

Yeah, it definitely, like you said, I think it's interesting cuz some

Eddie:

people are concerned that like, oh, remote juniors won't have as much support, but

Eddie:

I feel like it's also less scary and it's easier to like slack someone a question

Eddie:

walking over to someone's desk where everyone can hear you and like asking a

Amber:

question.

Amber:

Exactly, but then also when you are onboarded virtually, it can be

Amber:

quite hard to reach out to people.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

At least that's what I found in my experience.

Amber:

Cuz it's like everyone knows each other, everyone knew each other

Amber:

from pre pandemic and you kind of feel like this outside up, you just

Amber:

like this little box in the standup.

Amber:

It can be quite intimidating.

Amber:

Okay, so now I need to reach out to this person and ask them a question

Amber:

. And I dunno why I found that just so scary, even though I knew that.

Amber:

Super nice and really collaborative, and when he did ask him the question,

Amber:

there was like literally no judgment.

Amber:

It still petrified me and I think, again, like that's why it's so important to have

Amber:

these kind of connections, especially when you're working in a virtual environment.

Amber:

When I was starting my role, there was still like we literally were not allowed

Amber:

by the government to go into the office, so there was like no hybrid situation.

Amber:

I think it's really important to have some kind of like one-to-one calls

Amber:

incumbent team members set with new joiners because as a new join.

Amber:

Because everyone, you don't see what everyone's doing, so you

Amber:

assume that everyone is super busy and they won't have time to even

Amber:

have like a 15 minute coffee chat.

Amber:

And I think that when you arrange those things for new joiners, it makes

Amber:

a huge difference in terms of feeling included, having that more likely

Amber:

to have that psychological safety to like, contribute, ask questions,

Amber:

make mistakes, and be open about it.

Eddie:

So, yeah, I totally agree.

Eddie:

I think that anyone who's listening who has like the ability to

Eddie:

kind of push that stuff, right?

Eddie:

If you are a, you know, mid or a senior developer or even just a junior

Eddie:

who's been at your company for a couple years, like when new people

Eddie:

come in, like, do what Amber said.

Eddie:

Reach out, do a coffee chat.

Eddie:

Like you are helping that person feel more comfortable, feel part of the family, and

Eddie:

kind of taking, taking the responsibility of being the person who has been at

Eddie:

the company longer to like invite them.

Eddie:

Yeah,

Amber:

and give them insight into like various different

Amber:

team members what they're like.

Amber:

I remember meeting with my director.

Amber:

He said, you know, if you need help with X, go to this person.

Amber:

If you need help with y, go to that person.

Amber:

And I was just like, I asked the right person, that.

Amber:

Awesome.

Amber:

I'm talking to the perfect person.

Amber:

And it helped me just to gain a better understanding of like my team members and

Amber:

also like areas that they're strong in.

Eddie:

As we wrap up the episode, we always like to see if anyone has anything

Eddie:

they'd like to share with the community.

Eddie:

Obviously, you listed off a lot of really awesome things at the beginning

Eddie:

of the episode, so I'd just like to kind of swing back around and, uh,

Eddie:

have you share some of that stuff again for people to be able to check out.

Amber:

Thank you.

Amber:

So I co-host the Glowing and Tech podcast.

Amber:

It's powered by coding black females.

Amber:

It is a space where we showcase black women in tech.

Amber:

So we split the episodes in two parts of episodes.

Amber:

First part is just learning about them and their journey into tech.

Amber:

And then we have a 10 called discussion called tech topic in 10,

Amber:

which is always like super exciting.

Amber:

And then we have like spilling the tech tea where they share.

Amber:

Controversial take or something in the tech industry, and that's

Amber:

always something super fun.

Amber:

So yeah, definitely check it out.

Amber:

It's on YouTube, Spotify, apple and Auto, audible, , so

Eddie:

yeah.

Eddie:

Yeah, definitely.

Eddie:

We'll include links to that as well as everything else you've mentioned.

Eddie:

kind of in this episode today in the show notes.

Eddie:

So if any of that sounds familiar, definitely go check it out.

Eddie:

And Amber, thank you so much for joining us today.

Eddie:

It's been just a pleasure to talk.

Eddie:

It's been

Amber:

amazing to talk . Thank you so much for having me.

Amber:

This has been so much fun.

Eddie:

Thanks for joining us for episode 29, please just give a

Eddie:

girl a chance with Amber Shand.

Eddie:

You can find out more about Amber on her website.

Eddie:

Amber shand.co.uk or her Twitter at Amber Lee tech.

Eddie:

You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode,

Eddie:

as well as a link to ambers website and Twitter in the show notes.

Eddie:

If you enjoyed this episode, help others discover it as well.

Eddie:

Why don't you give us a shout out on your favorite social media platform,

Eddie:

maybe tag a friend or coworker that you think would enjoy it.

Eddie:

Don't forget to follow us wherever you hang out online.

Eddie:

Or you can subscribe to our newsletter, stay up to date on a weekly basis.

Eddie:

Thank you for listening and have a great day.

Amber:

Have

Amber:

a great day.