Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

---

121: "It's important to have interests outside of the military because the military does not last forever." Using writing as an outlet and post-military life with Jessica Silva

Jessica Silva returns to the show to update us on post-military life (after being a military spouse for 22 years), transition tips, and her book for military kids, Daddy's on a Chip. She reflects on the last two years since their family transitioned to civilian life, how writing was her outlet when she couldn't sleep, how her adult children are now doing, the importance of having interests and friends outside of the military community, and much more.

Purchase a copy of Daddy's On a Chip at: https://www.etsy.com/shop/JessicaSilvaBooks

Connect with Jessica Silva at: https://www.instagram.com/jsilva0/

Listen to Jessica's last conversation with us from episode 94: https://www.holdingdownthefortpodcast.com/episode/094

--

Support free art and comedy classes to veterans, service members, military family members, and caregivers by attending Jen's Storytelling Bootcamp Graduation Show by the Armed Services Arts Program on Wednesday, November 17, 2021 8 PM (EST) via Zoom. Purchase your ticket for "Storytelling Bootcamp Grad Show – Bravo" at https://asapasap.org/attend-a-show/

Special thanks to The Rosie Network for the invitation to participate in the ceremony, congratulate the award winners, and update the community on our journey since we won 2020 Media Professional of the Year! Watch now at https://youtu.be/pd9agrNEpUQ

Holding Down the For now has a sister podcast: The Spouse Benefit Plan, which'll focus on helping career military families make the most important decision before transition: to keep or opt out of the Survivor Benefit Plan. Listen to the teaser episode now at https://youtu.be/5Tc8zq3hS8k

--

Guest Applications are now open! Apply to be on our show at https://forms.gle/YdoNX9aR8RTEKpnCA

Stay updated! Subscribe to our newsletter http://eepurl.com/gTTOdT

Connect with our co-hosts Jen Amos jen@holdingdownthefortpodcast.com and Jenny Lynne Stroup https://jennylynnestroup.com/ or jennylynnestroup379@gmail.com

Visit our website https://www.holdingdownthefortpodcast.com/

This show is sponsored by US VetWealth

• Get FREE access to the Military Spouse's ToolKit for Agile and Purposeful Employment https://usvetwealth.com/military-spouses-toolkit-for-agile-and-purposeful-employment/

September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. November 2020, Jen Amos and Holding Down the Fort Podcast was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! We've also been featured in multiple media outlets including Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

Enjoy our show? Kindly leave us a review on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30SJ7NW, Podchaser https://bit.ly/3dnCacY, or write a LinkedIn Recommendation for Jen https://bit.ly/3jNobzB

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your Creator and co host Jed Amos and of course as always, I have my co host with me. JT Lynch troupe genuine Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:10

Hey, glad to be here today.

Jen Amos 0:12

Yeah, absolutely. And we are excited because we are actually bringing a past guest. Back on our show. We have with us today Jessica Silva, where as I mentioned, she was on our show, back in episode 94, which was titled sisterhood, mental health and thriving and chaos with Elaine Brewer, Teresa Schick, and Jessica Silva. And a little bit about Jessica, she has been a military spouse for 22 years, and currently navigating the post military life being two years out now. She is an instructor for the Oh 2x Human Performance workshops, and author of the children's book daddy's on the chip. Without further ado, Jessica, welcome back to holding down the fort.

Unknown Speaker 0:51

Thank you very much for having me back.

Jen Amos 0:53

Yeah, absolutely. So I thought I checked in with you. Because when we first checked in with you, and Teresa, and and Elaine, all three of you were just freshly out of the military. And so I know it's only been about two years for you so far. But how has that experience been? For you to be living the post military life,

Speaker 1 1:11

it's been a huge adjustment. And I think it's still happening, you know, my husband and I see each other a lot more. And that's different. And there's a lot of mental unpacking to be done. For both of us, we always think of the military member as the one that's having, you know, has PTS or is having reintegration issues or whatever. But honestly, it is both of you. It's a huge shift for the spouse as well. And I don't think there's enough attention really drawn to that issue. We're always you know, the military member has problems or issues, getting back to civilian life, but honestly, it's both of us. So we've been working on it, we live in the woods with 26 acres, and we just got some chickens, and we have nature and a very tiny town next to us. And it's definitely good for my husband's mental health to be away from people. And it's hard for me because I like people. So it's a big adjustment for both of us. But you know, we're getting into our new paradigm, and we're motivated with each other. We're not fighting each other while we're doing it. It's a team effort. And that's really helpful for empty nesters, which makes life easier because I don't have to deal with school aged children, you know, finding a new place for them and, and a new network of friends and activities and stuff. So it's a lot easier for us now.

Jen Amos 2:31

Yeah, I think that you know, of all the changes that happen in post military life, that must be one thing you're extremely grateful about is not having to worry about the kids and helping them get reintegrated or establishing new normal for them like you to you and your husband can really solely focus on you guys as a couple and what that means for you in post military life.

Speaker 1 2:50

Yeah, it's huge. In the therapy department, too. We both got boxes to unpack internally. And you know, now there's not the distraction of kids or military or deployment. And now it's still there. It didn't forget. And so now it's popping its head out. There's, you know, issues sometimes, but we know they're coming or we know what to look out for. So we've learned that in the past couple years for sure.

Jen Amos 3:16

Yeah, absolutely. You know, Daniel, and I know you and Matthew always try to work as a team as much as possible. And so I'm curious if you have any thoughts so far?

Speaker 2 3:24

Oh, man, I mean, I am not surprised by anything. She's saying, having done this for 12 and a half years now, like, I'm not surprised that there are many boxes to unpack both literally and figuratively as you transition out of the military. It's something that I hope, you know, because I work in mental health, and I'm an advocate of mental health that we are able to navigate Well, in the coming years, because we've spent a lot of time trying to unpack all those things while we're in it. Right.

Speaker 1 3:59

Somebody recently asked, you know, my husband's getting ready to retire. What, you know, what do I need to do? And we were talking about, you know, retirement pay and defense, and stuff like that. And I was like, start therapy now. My advice like, yeah, so retirement, that the SDP all that stuff. And you know, that's hard to navigate to, but everybody needs to start therapy now like you as a couple, maybe you individually because you don't know what day it's gonna happen, but things are gonna start popping out of there.

Jen Amos 4:31

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I know Jenny Lynn can attest to that. And being in this space, she is an in regards to mental health advocacy. And I know that you know, in our last conversation and Episode 94, you and Teresa and Elaine spoke so much about the importance of mental health. So I appreciate you bringing that up as a as a tip, especially one of the many things you need to do as you transition is to get therapy. What's the big shift? Yeah,

Speaker 1 4:58

Jen Amos 5:58

Yeah, you know, it's our pleasure. And I remember in our conversation, Elaine had brought up like, partly why it was so difficult to bring up issues amongst you know, your spouse is because you wanted to make sure that the service member was deployable. But still, either way, we need to have an outlet to be able to, you know, talk about these issues and what have you. So, you know, I really appreciate you, you know, having been a military spouse for as long as you had been to, you know, go through what you and Jason went through to be in a space now to even encourage, you know, mental health and and to get a therapist, you know, before you transition, I think is powerful.

Unknown Speaker 6:34

It is important here if you want to stay married.

Jen Amos 6:37

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I remember one thing that you brought up, Jessica, in our last conversation is that the main thing that all three of you have in common is that y'all still married, you know, after this whole time and anything, it's a test. I mean, the way that you are speaking to us today, and how you spoke before, and the fact that you listened to the show, it tells me how intentional you had been this whole time being in the military, and how intentional you want to be with your husband. So I just want to say kudos to you both.

Speaker 1 7:05

Great. It's very few people that in our friends circle or in our community that are still married and efficient, and then still like each other. I mean, you could stay married for the kids or whatever. But yeah, we still like each other. And we're still, you know, on the same team. And that's rare. And it's not always been that way, at least that we you know, we've almost been divorced a couple different times. So it's not like it's been the easy road. But I'm proud of the fact that we still like each other.

Jen Amos 7:33

Yeah, yeah, seriously, if you could make it that far in life and still like each other. I think you've done something, right. And that's a lesson to all young couples, including me. I want to check in with Jennylyn. Real quick, see if you had anything you wanted to add?

Speaker 2 7:46

Well, she can't see all my head shaking because she called him but I've literally nodded everything she said, Because I mean, you will find a bigger advocate for mental health than me, based on my experience as a military spouse, if I lived a different lifestyle. I don't know that this is what would be the thing that resonated with me most. But it is because of what we've been through and the things we've done as a family and as a couple. And, you know, I was reminded, as Jessica was talking about, like, one of the one of the biggest fights my husband and I got in, after his deployment to Afghanistan was that I had sat through a pre deployment brief for the deployment that was before the Afghanistan deployment. And one of the major talking points was like, Don't tell your service member anything bad that's going on at home, like they need to be solely focused on the mission, and you can't let them know that anything is happening. And so, I mean, we did two back to back deployments. And like, you know, I read back through our emails, and it's like, the kids went to the park today, like Luke saw this first word, you know, all these very, like, everybody's fine. Kind of things. You know, we did two back to backs, and he came home and he's like, like, why? Like, what's up with you? Like, why are you frustrated all the time? Like, you know, what happened to the person I married it? I'm like, I went through two deployments back to back with a baby and a toddler that you know nothing about. And he's like, Well, why don't I know anything? And I'm like, because they told me not to tell you. And he was like, Wait, who's gay and what's happening? And I was, like, literally, a pre deployment brief was Don't tell them anything. And he fought me so hard. He was like, that should have been my decision. You know, I can't believe you didn't tell me all these things. And sod is like keeping information from him. I mean, which essentially it was, but I was doing it out of like, out of service to Him. This is what I was told. This is the rule for being a military spouse. I mean, and we would every couple years circle around that same argument like well, if you had told me you know, We probably wouldn't be doing this right now. Fast forward four years. And uh, he's walking through the exchange picks up like Navy times, or some magazine or some military magazine, and brings it home because there is an entire article on Don't tell your spouse hard things and why. And he hands it to me, like, not even a little chagrin, and I lost it. I was like, see, it's in print, like, this is six years after we deployed and this is like, imprint, it's still a thing. And, you know, what that experience taught me was that like, we as a couple, and we and we have worked through this in counseling together and separately, is that, you know, we've really, in a lot of ways have to define what bad news looks like for us what hard looks like for us, because he came back from two back to back deployments and felt like he knew nothing about us. And similarly, I mean, we didn't really know anything about him. Like, I actually probably knew more about him than he knew about me, because you could follow the command Facebook page and like, see where they were going and what they were doing. Right. But like I was so in the weeds with toddlers and babies that, you know, if there were pictures of be on Facebook, it's because my mom or my sister posted them not because I was like doing social media all that well.

Yeah, it's hard to recover from that lack of intimacy too, because I mean, they don't know what's going on in your life, your kid's life, and you don't know what's going on in their life, because they're working. And I remember when we had casualties to most of the casualties we had my husband was gone for. And so we dealt with it at home, he, quote, unquote, dealt with it where he was. And by the time he got home, it was over what had been done for months. And so there was really no recovering and getting back to that conversation. There's no real good time, you know, over dinner like so about that casualty that occurred. So you never really recover that intimacy throughout their active duty career. Or if you are able to, it takes a lot of work, and depends on what they're doing, and depends on what's going on at home as well.

Yeah, well, it's

hard with so much back and forth. And I think that's where for us, like couples counseling has been such a blessing, because that's really what we were lacking. We are great partners, like business partners, like we know who's who, and what's what, and who does this, and who does that. And he's got the trash, and I've got the bills and like, we are great partnering and parenting, but intimacy is difficult. And it really did take good health, good solid counseling, help. And, you know, in the support of like, having a good babysitter and relying on friends to really kind of get back to that, oh, we do like each other. And we do want to spend time together so that, you know, we could create, like, rebuild that not just like bedroom intimacy, but like just that intimacy of vulnerability with one another, which was lacking after many back to back deployments? For sure.

Yeah, well, thank you. Well, I think this was like a great way to, you know, open up our conversation is really the, you know, what goes on or what, what military couples, what we encourage them to do, you know, to stay connected to stay on the same page with things really. And like you said, Jessica, and I'm glad that you listened enough to the show to know that we are really big on mental health here on our show. Yeah, I want to go ahead and transition. So when we spoke with you and Elaine and Theresa, I only hinted at the book that you had published so long ago back in 2006, titled daddy's on a chip. And, you know, now that we're talking to you directly, I would love to, you know, dive into this book specifically and talk about like, why you decided to put this book together publish it, and you know, kind of the impact of it. So let's first start off What compelled you to write this book?

Well, I was actually back in 2006. So my kids were young, the 10 and four. And so 911 had happened, there have been a couple of different deployments already. And I didn't realize that this is what I was marrying into, because when we got married, it was all training trips, you know, and like, Korea, long and, you know, easy stuff. And then when we got married and had another kid, and we're in Virginia and all this, and I was working as a 911 operator at the time, and 911 happened, everybody all of a sudden, you know, the shit hit the fan, and real life started happening, and I don't think I had foreseen that at all. I mean, I knew what he did is a Navy Seal, right. But I, I don't think I really knew what that meant until I was limited. So I wasn't sleeping, he would deploy. And it was way back in the day. So we actually shared an email address. And we had very little communication because it was so early in the 2000s. Technology was not like it was today. It was what it is today, we would actually eventually have video conferences, if the command was set up where you would sign up for a time you would go to the command, they would put you into their video conference room, and you would get 20 minutes with your guy. And you know, everybody else is watching. So that was really hard for me. So communication wasn't that great. We didn't get a lot of phone calls. Things were very new, and you know, more fair, and I wasn't sleeping. And I probably none of us were sleeping. I wasn't the only one. So I was on shift work when I'm on want to shift work. So sometimes you have audacious sometimes you have evening shifts, sometimes you're on Midnight's. And so there was all this upheaval in our home trying to get childcare, etc. So when I wasn't sleeping, I ended up writing. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that that has that, that outlet when you know, some people's journal. And my kids were always asking what I thought were just the dumbest questions like, they don't get it. They don't know what dad does. They barely been to where he works, they don't understand the concept of military, etc. And so they asked all these wackadoodle questions. And yeah, especially when you're strung out, you're tired, you're stressed, because you're single parenting, you're worried about your person. And so I just, I just started writing this stuff down. And, and it turned into, I don't have my daughter, I'm taking art lessons at the time. And I ended up hiring her art teacher who was a graphic designer to do the illustrations for me. And my husband, bless him, because he totally believed in me, and he put up his reenlistment bonus, or need to Self Publish. So it wasn't a huge hit. Because the military community is very small, Special Operations is even smaller. And so I still have like 300 of them in my basement. But it was a fantastic outlet for me. It kept me sane. My kids loved it. I did some United serve eating at local military schools and daycares. So it was a good outlet. And I'm never gonna make any money off of it. But I was glad I did it, I would do it again.

Yeah, I think just like what you said, the key word is outlet in a time where you know, you weren't sleeping and your only way of coping was writing. And then also dealing with the kids asking these interesting questions. I like how you took that entire experience and put it into a book because even if it's not a best seller, you know, it was enough for you, you know, to get through that time. And in a way capture that timeframe in the life of you and, and your kids.

I mean writing when you can't sleep isn't that what we all do? I have many 1000s and 1000s of words either on my computer in a journal for you know, the same reasons and have also catalogued my children's best expressions. that's those are the days I'm grateful for Facebook memories where they remind me of the funny things my kid says that's usually where those are. But yeah, I mean, military life definitely gives you a lot of things to write about. And a lot of hours to think about it. I mean, as we both mentioned, like we're often the only adults in the house and you can only watch so much Netflix like there's only so much TV or zoning out you can do before at least for me before that becomes just such an anxiety inducing experience that it has to go somewhere and for me it goes on the page and sounds like similarly with Jessica that was where it was

funny that you mentioned that I made the mistake one deployment of watching the Black Hawk Down Terrible idea don't ever

yeah, I've pretty much sworn off all war movies at this point even from like World War Two which is an era I love to read about the cat like I don't watch the news. I can't watch military movies. Just don't read military books.

Can't do it. Got it. Just watch a lot of documentaries. Yeah,

I watch a lot of rom coms. I'm much more of an escapist I'm gonna read a whole lot of fiction and watch a whole lot of rom coms because the reality of real life is enough drama for me.

Now.

I appreciate you guys you know sharing that and kind of like what you need to do to like unplug. In a sense, you know, lately actually for me too, I've been very much until like sitcoms as of late. And actually Jennylyn when you brought up shits Creek, I actually binge watch that. Like, I think in an entire weekend, like, I love that show so much. I'm gonna watch it a second time around just because I really loved like the humor and the comedy, and just the way that the show went like it was, it was absolutely amazing. But anyway, I just wanted, I just wanted to make sure I add my piece into that.

You know, David? Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, Jessica, first of all, I love that your book was a quick read. I mean, I guess as an adult, that should be obvious. But, you know, in thinking of my own experience as a military child, for the first 10 years of my life, like I really resonated with a lot of the things that you addressed. I really like how you took a lot of these innocent comments, I think from you know, your kids into the book, like such as, like, Oh, what is, you know, what's a what's a chip? Are they talking about chocolate chip, you know, and, you know, his daddy, like protecting the chips, the chocolate chips from people and, and then also like, oh, is this easy? He said, like, Oh, he's a seal. Does that mean that he likes fish and chips. Like, just like, kind of, there's just the innocence of that, that you address, like, early on, I think I think was really, I really, I really liked that. And I thought it was adorable. And also, I thought it was interesting, you know, the way that you described, just the parental roles in your kids lives, like from the mom being like, very fast pace, and kind of like, go, go go. And then when dad's home, it's very, like relaxing and slow paced. And, you know, the fact that the kids can pick that up really early. Like I when I reflect on even my own parents and military, like very much the same experience, like, oh, Dad's home, like, in a weird way, I almost favored him over my mom. And of course, I learned to appreciate her later in life. But like, you know, whenever dad was home, it was time to chill, it was time to take it easy. And he was my favorite, because he never judged me. And he was always supportive. And I think it's great how you're able to capture you know, the experiences of your kids and speak from what it sounds like your eldest daughter, you know, to tell the story from a child's perspective.

It amazed me like some of the things that they would say, like, you really don't get this to see it from their perspective. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But just their their perspective, like they have no life experience with which to see the situation. So it is good for adults, I think, to take a step back and get back to that simplified view of things for all of us, and not just military, but to kind of take a step back and be like, how does this really look to them? Because I think that really does color your actions as a parent, and also trying to explain age appropriately, which I was never good at. I was just like, well, here's how it is. Here's what's happening, they never got that, you know, the chance to be ignorant for very long, because I just didn't have the patience to try to find a way to explain, like Mommy doesn't have time. Like, here's how it's happening. Yeah, but I think it is good for us to kind of look at it from a different perspective from have a little bit of a capture a little bit of that innocence for those little people in our lives.

Yeah, the part that really stuck with me was when the daughter said that she was doing her best for you by being a big helper, you know, in the house. And that actually resonated with me, because even though I'm not the eldest, I was the eldest daughter. And so my mom had leaned against me a lot in the military life, and even in post military life. And so I like how you captured that as well. So that mindset of like, as the eldest, I'm going to contribute, I'm going to do my part to help mom, you know, and I think that it's hard to teach kids empathy, I think in that way. And so it's, it's kind of nice for you to have captured that moment, you know, and capture that her personality in a sense, and how she knew that she knew that she was capable of contributing to the household.

Yeah. And I mean, now that she's older, she's 25. Now, you know, I can look back on that, and like, wow, I must have put a lot on her. And that probably wasn't the best parenting move, you know, to put that responsibility on a child. But, you know, it's done now, and I can do about that now. But I think it did give her also a purpose, you know, like, but when, like you were saying, Jen, when my husband did come home, I think that she took that as a relief of duty, for sure. Because it was time to chill and play and be a dork and run around and jump on the trampoline with dad. And but I know that you know, as spouses our roles change, when the service member comes home, but also you don't really realize but the kids roles change as well.

Yeah. I mean, you just made me have a light bulb moment. Just now. So thank you for sharing that. You know, Jaylen, obviously you are a writer and you love writing and you love books. So I just want to see if you had any thoughts. I loved

all the kid talk in there. I mean, I now have an upper elementary school. are a middle schoolers, so their ability to say, words and correctly is far less than it used to be. And I just love like the sweetness of the story. But in talking about it, I mean, I'm so much reminded of two things like one, when my husband and I were first dating, I was a teacher. And I had one military child of my class. And I remember having a parent teacher conference with his dad who was the military member, because the child had, you know, never could find his homework, never could find, like, all these things. And we had this whole conversation. The dad was like, super military, like, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna get, and the kid came back the next day, and I was like, where's your homework, man? And he's like, What homework and I'm like, your dad was literally here for like, 30 minutes yesterday, you know, like, what he said, You were gonna bring me all the papers. You I mean, he goes, Oh, yeah, we went for wheeling. And I went home and I was like, you never get to be funded. Like, that cannot be I don't care. Like where the Navy takes you. Like, you don't get to be fun dad, because then I'm always gonna be like, militant mom. And he was like, okay, like, I mean, literally, we were dating and he was looking at me, like, had three heads. But, you know, as we've been married and had children and part of this military life, like, I mean, so many times, he's been fun dad, and I, you know, I do often wonder and can see on my kids faces like, cheese. There's mom again, like, she's gonna, like, do chores. Yay. Like we get, you know, we get some relief from that. And even the other night. Yeah, my husband's on underway. And I was like, saying prayers with our kids that night. And my oldest goes, you know, and I just hope Daddy has a good rest. And I have a good rest. And Luke has a good rest. Amen. And my internal voice was like, What the? Like, hello. I'd like a good rest. Like, I'm here picking up like, don't read all the parenting slack. Like, I work full time I made you dinner like, WTF man, like, what is happening. And it is, I mean, it is it's just perspective, like, deep down, I know that they appreciate having the stability of the parent that stays. And also somedays that's really hard to pick up on from them that they know that you're doing your best.

I do have to point out here, like serious note, if that changes, that's like a red flag. So my husband was fun that for many years, you know, you'd come home and jump right back in. And then the time it took him to jump right back in, took a little longer and a little longer and a little longer. And I remember one time, he had just gotten home a week or so before. And my son, it was bedtime, and I was done for the day. And he's just pushing my buttons. And I sent him to bed. And I came down and I was like crying because I was tired and angry and overwhelmed. And I told my husband, you know, Jacob did this. I don't even remember what he did now. But he just sent me off. And my husband went upstairs, grabbed my son by his ankle, took him out of bed, and my son Peter Pan. So he stopped being fun dad, gradually and I didn't notice because the life was so fast paced and things were happening so quickly. And you don't pay attention like you should sometimes because you just don't have the capacity. And so when that changes, you got to pay attention, because we did not catch it at that point. Wow. And nobody talks about it. You know, and if you've not done that before, like we didn't live that life before. So you know, I didn't have anybody tell me hey, that's not normal.

Yeah, wow. Well, you know, think,

a little dark rabbit hole. Sorry. Yeah. No, I

mean, thank you. Actually, I I think it's important to, you know, share that perspective. And, in a way it kind of it gives me perspective thinking like, yeah, maybe if Mom Mom was the bad cop, and dad was always a good cop, but now you're helping me understand, like, you know, if it changes, though, that's probably not a good thing. You know, the fact that it took me maybe 20 years later to appreciate, you know, the thankless sacrifices with my mom. But you know, no matter what she was able to create that safe environment, you know, either way, and so, you know, just thank you for sharing that because that could be the reality sometimes that happens at home, Daniel, and just want to see if you had any thoughts,

so many thoughts? Yeah, for us. It was kind of the other. I think any shift in behavior is cause for concern for us. It looked the other way where my husband and I had mostly been on the same page about this is how we parent and this is how we do things and then You know, all of a sudden one day he's like, super fun dad and we like ignore all of the routines and all of the things for the sake of escapism. That for us was like the well for me was like the something here is not okay. Like, we used to both think that kids should do chores and you know, whatever it was, we were on the same page about all of a sudden one day like, he was so glaringly fun dad to my routine, ritualistic, like, everything has a place and we do things at certain times, because we have kids on a nap schedule. And he was like, let's go do all the fun things like for me was like, Oh, hmm, something is happening. I don't know what it is. But something is happening.

Yeah, ah, deviation and behavior. Yep.

So Jessica, fast forward to today. You know, as you mentioned earlier, in our conversation, your kids are now adults and urine. You know, you and Jason are empty nesters. And you're, you know, really navigating this post military life at least two years. Now, at this point, how is your relationship with your kids now, you know, like, from when you got this book done to now how they are as adults?

Yeah, well, I think we've all changed. And when one person changes it, it creates change, and everybody else. So I don't know who changed first and create a change in each other or just, it's all happening simultaneously. But my son is in the army. Now. He's been in for two years. He's up in Alaska, and my daughter, she's 25. She lives in Santa Cruz in California. She's an artist there and working at a graphic design company, architect firm. And you know, just they're trying to find their way. And it's I love it personally, because I don't have to watch what I say anymore. And I don't have to tell anybody what to do. I don't have to have anybody cleaning their room. So their relationship is much different. Because I'm not bombing them. Like, you know, I'm not the authoritarian anymore. They're on their own. They're doing their own thing. And so when we talk, it's not like, why didn't you do these three things that I asked you to do? It's more like, what do you been up to? So we're like, friends now. And I love it, people were like, Oh, you're gonna, you're gonna miss them. And empty nesting is a bummer. And I'm like, I'm different. I love it. I love that they're, I love to hear about their successes and their failures and what they're up to and their ideas about life. And they're different than mine. And I love that too. And my husband's more involved, you know, he knows what's going on in their lives, he talks to him more often. He doesn't just call home and talk to all of us at once. He can talk to them individually. And, and they can talk to him, because they're adults now. And they call and ask advice. And my son is in the military too. So he calls and they talk about gear and offs and all that military stuff. And I think we're way more involved in each other's lives as a family than we were when he was active duty. Honestly, my husband and I have the focus now that we can apply to our children that I wish we had had, you know, 1520 years ago but that wasn't to be because the pace off tempo was just so fast that it wasn't possible so yeah, I love that we're we're more involved in all all of in each other's business now.

Yeah, I really love that. Like you said, you could just be friends with your kids now and or your adult children and they're living their own lives. And it just sounds like everyone is in a wonderful season of of their lives right now. And you guys can really just focus on enjoying each other and checking in with each other and asking each other for advice, as opposed to depending on each other the way that you guys did in military life.

That all sounds very lovely. And I mean that in the like, I'm like, Oh wow, people that like check in and everybody that like once day. I mean, we're still very much in the messy middle of active duty life with kids in sports and under ways and deployments and all the things and I I am hopeful that we get to the other side of this military life one both still liking each other and also being those people that our kids want to call and hang out with or want to call for advice or, you know, to talk through we've no idea at this point. If our children will want to go military right now they think that you know, being MLB players is really in their future. So we'll see how that works.

I was never a believer in being friends with your kids. When they're young. That's not a relationship that I agree with. Because you're there to teach them things. You're their teacher, you're their guide, you're not their friend, but now is really lovely to have that which and they love it too because I'm not telling them what to do anymore. They really enjoy that.

For sure, yeah, I love that. And I love. Like I mentioned, I love the season that you all are now in as a family. So now that you are in post military life, we were talking a little bit about this offline. But I figured you can share some parting advice to, you know, people who are in transition. So feel free to share the story that you mentioned offline in regards to speaking to people who, you know, let's say retire and move to a non military space. Tell us a little bit about that story, and what lessons or advice you want to share, if people end up in that situation?

Absolutely. I was not a very good military wife in the fact that I did not get for into just writing my husband's coattails. I think that's an awful way to be a military spouse, your husband or your your wife was in the military, not you. And while it is really important to have that community, because you have like people and like situations, and you bond with those people, and I think that's very important. But I think it's also really important to have interests outside of the military and people that you know, outside of the military, because the military does not last forever. And you may not live near those people forever. And and well, Teresa's foundation is really good about trying to build that community after post military, I think that all you have is your your spouse, his military career that you're engaged in, when he gets out, so do you, and then you both have nothing going on. And then you're both floundering. And he's trying to find maybe a different career or something new, but so are you. So if you don't have those other special interests, for me, it was search and rescue, I was a canine handler, I trained up a dog and I went looking for missing persons and downed aircraft. And I had that whole other section of community. So I'm still friends with those dog handlers, I'm still, you know, talking to people from that portion of my life. And if I had wanted to I, when I moved to Colorado, I could have probably engaged in search and rescue out here. So it gave me something that I had, you know, after a military life ended, that I could get involved in. So I feel like that's just so important to have those additional interests. And your military tribe is so important, because they're the only ones that know the kind of weirdo that you are, and except, you know, I'm not going to downplay that relationship at all. I'm in the car right now with my friend Stacy, who we've been weirdos together for many, many years. And her husband's out as well. She lives in Jersey, and I live in Colorado, and we're able to see each other today. So, but yeah, have those added interest so that you're not cold, like freaking out after, after he gets out of the military?

Yeah, I think that is wonderful, wonderful advice. I think, you know, often when my husband and I talked to people, when we talk to like prospective clients, for our business, there's often it's kind of like, we usually talk to people when they're right at transition, and they're kind of like, you know, a deer staring at headlights, you know, their lives are about to flip and turn upside down. And I think even just starting early on, just like what you said in our conversation, like seeking out therapy, and also having interests outside of the military, while you're in the military, I think could help alleviate a part of that stress and feeling like, you know, your life is about to, you know, turn upside down, as I said, so I really appreciate that advice. And I don't think actually, I think you're really the first person to share this on the show as far as I'm concerned. Right. Right. Right. Definitely. I don't think anyone else has shared that.

Yeah, we talked about community. Sorry, I was calculating episodes. Yeah, I mean, I think what's really important about this is we often talk about community and I, I am often the first one to say like, I love being a military spouse and the community that I have there, but I 110% agree with, and you have to have it elsewhere. Like, I am not one dimensional. In my community. I have a lot of military spouse friends, and they are my people. They do know the ins and outs of the crazy this lifestyle brings. But I mean, I'm in a writer group, and I have church friends, and I have neighborhood friends and I have friends I grew up with and like all of those are so very important because, as we've talked about multiple times, just today, like this will end. And when it does, like especially I know what we talked about offline was like, what happens when you move back home to like, where you grew up? And where you grew up isn't a military town or you pick somewhere where you can buy a lot of land and live out in the country and, you know, population 12 And none of them were military, but you like

it's hard. It's hard that nobody understands where you've been and what you've done. I mean, the town that I live in is like 1300 people right now. So I my friend group is ladies that are all like like 1520 years older than me, and we go hiking to different areas around. There's these old ladies, they can fit 10,000 feet altitude, and they are hardy. They are hardy ladies. But you know, nobody knows where you've been, what you've done, and where you're coming from. And that is very stressful, because you're like, nobody understands me, you know, except your husband, who maybe still doesn't all the way understand you. And, and it's really hard to keep that feeling of community when you don't live near your community. So I really love what Teresa's doing with her pillar foundation. But yeah, but it also is a blessing in disguise, because it forces you to expand a little bit and make friends and work those muscles that maybe don't really want to work. But in the end, I think it is really beneficial to get out there and in a non military community and find that there is life besides military out there.

Yeah, definitely. Well, Jessica, I really appreciate and admire your self awareness where you've been on your military journey to where you are now in post military life. I want to thank you so much for you know, being on our show again, and checking in with us and talking a little bit about your book, Daddy's on a chip. And some people might think she's saying ship as an sh if sh IP, it's like, no, I'm saying ch IP. And if you do, check out the book, if you do reach out to Jessica and check out the book, you'll know why daddy's on a chip. But Jessica, before we wrap up here, any other closing thoughts? I just want to make sure we do that. And then if people want to get a hold of you, I'll ask you that question. But anything else you want to share? Before we go?

Yeah, just thanks again, for doing what you guys do. It is really helpful. I mean, obviously, my husband's not in the military anymore. I still listen your show, I still learned things I still, you know, get access to interesting people and love that people are being creative, even through COVID, you know, forming foundations and programs. And it's awesome. And I think for the the active duty family now. They're really, really benefiting from that. So yeah, appreciate that.

Yeah, no, it's our it's our pleasure, gentlemen. Any closing thoughts from you? it's not

always been that way. Right.

backs. I think this is a great way to close the show. I'm appreciative of all the conversation today and the reminders of community both near and far. And military and non.

For good. For sure. Yeah. And just to add upon, you know, the more that I mean, with all the conversations that we've had on the show, I'm acknowledging that we are in a generation where the military gets a lot of good press. And so I am very grateful to be in this timeframe to you know, celebrate the military community and amplify our stories as well as encouraged you know, mental health because I know, you know, firsthand, Jessica that that hasn't always been the case. So before we go, Jessica, if people do want to get a hold of you, how can people find you?

If they want to buy the book? There's a Jessica Silva books on Etsy, or they can email me and you have my email if you have showed us your to put that in. But yeah,

awesome. Thank you again, Jessica, and Jenny Lynn, and to our listeners that we very much I mean, I very much enjoyed this conversation today. And I hope that you did too as a listener. And with that said, We'll chat with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.