We are in person at the 2024 Animal Forensic Conference in Gainesville, Florida! Dr. G will be interviewing several of the speakers to give our audience a bit of the knowledge gained through the presentations. We will be releasing each interview individually to allow our listeners to find topics of interest.

Dr. Courtney Valerio, Veterinary Forensic Pathologist, breaks down the process of a forensic necropsy and describes the information that can be obtained when investigating an animal crime or suspicious death.

We would also like to invite our listeners involved in animal cruelty investigations to visit and join the International Society for Animal Forensic Sciences https://isafs.org/

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Our next guest is Dr.

2

Courtney Valerio, veterinary pathologist.

3

So thank you for being here

and welcome to The Junction.

4

Courtney Valerio: Thank you for having me.

5

DrG: Can you tell us a bit about

your background and what drove you

6

to the field of veterinary forensics?

7

Courtney Valerio: So I have a

bachelor's degree in animal and

8

poultry sciences, and then I worked

on a farm for a little bit after that.

9

And I decided I wanted to attend

veterinary school, and during vet

10

school, I really liked pathology.

11

I liked that it was so visual,

and I could see disease.

12

like actual disease.

13

It didn't feel like I was, um,

guessing, uh, which sounds awful.

14

Um, but for example, taking imaging

or, or things like that, we're always

15

kind of doing our, our kind of best

guess, and oftentimes you are correct,

16

but what I really like about pathology

is you can actually see the process.

17

So I went into general practice

for a little bit and, through that

18

and after some time there, I began

a pathology residency and upon

19

completion of my residency, I then

went through a fellowship here at UF

20

in forensic medicine or veterinary

forensic pathology, I should say.

21

So that's kind of the background of that.

22

Um, I particularly like pathology

because it is, the cases are very

23

interesting, but they also have a

component that not only helps animals,

24

but also helps people, basically.

25

DrG: Kind of like a higher purpose?

26

Courtney Valerio: Yeah, yeah, um,

and I think they're very important.

27

I think it's important to, to see these

cases, for these cases to go through

28

the judicial system, or even just for

more cases to, to be brought to us.

29

Sometimes they just, for

other circumstances, don't

30

get to go through the system.

31

But, I think that it basically brings

kind of awareness to this because we've

32

known for years and years and years

that there's a link between animal

33

abuse and child abuse and elder abuse

and spousal or partner, um, violence.

34

So , sometimes through, these

cases, we may be able to help

35

other animals or help other people.

36

So others may come to me and

be like, Oh, your job is so,

37

depressing.

38

Uh, and really, and it is, um, but

you really have to compartmentalize

39

and think about the bigger picture.

40

Um, and as far as what you're doing,

not only for like specifically

41

this animal, cause you are giving

it a voice at the end of the day.

42

Um, but for any others too.

43

DrG: Yeah, I get that as well, that people

will say, like, how can you sleep at

44

night, you know, with all these things

that you see, how can you go along,

45

and I feel like it's, I'm looking from

here on forward, right, I'm trying not

46

to dwell on what happened, I'm trying

to figure out what happened, so that

47

I can get justice, and like you said,

keep animals and the community safe.

48

Courtney Valerio: Very, very true, yes.

49

And also, just for the sake of Science,

you know, um, every case I see, I don't

50

automatically have like this image of

this terrible person unless we sometimes

51

we give video or photos whatever.

52

Um, but really, you know, in, in the quest

for the truth, a lot of times it is sad,

53

but other times it can be exonerating.

54

Um, for example, we've had cases

of suspected poisoning and it

55

turned out the dog had cancer.

56

So, you know, we were able to exonerate

everybody and be like, it's okay.

57

You know, you don't have like this

sociopath in your neighborhood.

58

This dog, unfortunately, just

passed away suddenly from that.

59

So, , it can be, it can definitely

be used for, for both sides.

60

DrG: So what's going to be the main

difference between a forensic autopsy

61

versus like a general autopsy that

a regular veterinarian would do?

62

Courtney Valerio: So in the veterinary

world, it is a bit different than

63

the human world in that respect.

64

Um, Because I, of what I assume

in the human world, I'm sorry if

65

there are, uh, human pathologists

being like, no, that's not right.

66

Um, but in, in the vet world

anyway, um, it is broken up

67

into a further niched area.

68

Uh, and so in, in general pathology,

really the cases that they

69

would receive have no, no legal

matter kind of attached to them.

70

They're, usually not cases of

suspected cruelty unless there's

71

just out of necessity, um, they

would be given to that pathologist.

72

But in, in general terms that type of

veterinary pathology, veterinary anatomic

73

pathology, is used for disease control,

disease surveillance, things of that

74

nature, or someone who maybe, known their

dog has died suddenly and they're pretty

75

sure, you know, it's, it wasn't the

neighbor, but I want to know what happened

76

may come to a, we call them in our,

, sort of world of diagnostic pathology.

77

I, you know, maybe it came

through them for that purpose.

78

And so from, forensics, when we receive

something, um, Really, it's because there

79

is a suspected criminal or civil legal

matter that may need to be, uh, resolved

80

or may come up or, or is very evident.

81

And because of that, our documentation

of those cases is very intense.

82

So, for example, in regular

diagnostic pathology we wouldn't

83

take intake, tons of intake photos.

84

We wouldn't take tons of, um,

photos of external exam , or of

85

organs or anything like that.

86

Usually it's, uh, very limited.

87

And maybe photos would be taken

if there was like a, a very

88

specific lesion or finding.

89

But other than that, it's

not really, um, done.

90

There's no chain of custody

associated with that body

91

like there is for our cases.

92

And the written reports of

ours are very different than

93

the reports that are typically

written for diagnostic pathology.

94

So ours, we hit every organ, normal,

abnormal, and you just really wouldn't

95

do that in regular veterinary pathology.

96

Usually you just hit the

points that are abnormal.

97

And so it's really the documentation

that it, it kind of boils down to, um,

98

and how different that those two are.

99

That's not to say that we don't

ever see disease in our cases,

100

kind of like what I said before.

101

Sometimes even though we do all

this documentation, all this sort of

102

stuff, you know, it's just becomes

an endogenous disease that we find

103

and that is the cause of death.

104

Um, so that's why it's important to have

the training of your residency before you

105

try to take on the forensic aspect of it.

106

DrG: And it's, I don't think that

a lot of people understand how

107

intense a residency in pathology is.

108

I guess you have to see a lot of cases

and then, see a lot of normal and a

109

lot of abnormal, and then get prepared.

110

Now, that said, a lot of rural areas may

have veterinarians that are, and they

111

don't, not have access to a pathologist.

112

So is it useless for a regular

practitioner to learn how

113

to do forensic autopsies?

114

Or is there a value in that?

115

Courtney Valerio: That's a

really tough question, honestly.

116

And it's because different Stages

of decomposition of these bodies can

117

very easily mimic disease processes

that are often seen in the cases

118

that we see in forensic pathology.

119

So for example, um, if a body is,

is decomposed and mummified, it

120

can appear like it's emaciated,

but it never was in life.

121

or a phenomenon called livor mortis,

which is just the settling or pooling

122

of blood within the vessels after

death, um, may appear like bruising.

123

So it gets very tricky, uh, for

a general practitioner to maybe,

124

um, overcome those obstacles.

125

That being said, a fresh body.

126

Um, maybe, um, especially if it's

something very obvious, like a gunshot

127

wound or a stab wound, you may be able

to kind of forward that examination.

128

But it's a big ask, I think,

for those general practitioners.

129

They already have to do, you So much,

um, on top of that, you know, in human

130

medicine, you have your anesthesiologist

and you have your radiologist and you

131

have your dentist and the veterinarian

is Almost in a public eye, there's

132

an expectation that they would be

all of these things, and it's a lot.

133

Um, I remember feeling like, oh my

god, you have to be a jack of all

134

trades in, in general practice.

135

So to add on to that stress, you

know, to be able to then perform

136

these autopsies to this really high

level, um, is, is to me very daunting.

137

I mean, that would be like Asking

me now to, you know, do this

138

complicated, surgery, maybe take

out a lung lobe or something, you

139

know, it's, I think it's a big ask.

140

Um, unfortunately I can see

why the ask is there though.

141

But we're really hoping that through

programs like mine or even the veterinary

142

forensic master's program, at least you

can get an idea, and you can be exposed

143

to different things and that may help you

if you're in an intensely like rural area

144

where there's not a lot of resources.

145

With that being said, please email

us or call us anytime with questions.

146

We're more than happy to,

to talk to practitioners and

147

we do it quite, quite often.

148

I know that there's not that many

of us, but with this fellowship

149

program, we're real, just really

hoping to, to change that.

150

And, uh, to kind of like pull

some people that might be like,

151

Oh, I kind of am interested.

152

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

153

It's cool over here.

154

So, so we're really hoping to,

to expand the, the field in that

155

way to help with that burden.

156

DrG: Most of the time what people want to

know with a forensic autopsy is cause of

157

death, but there's a difference between

cause of death and mechanism of death.

158

So can you tell us what both things mean?

159

Courtney Valerio: Yes.

160

So cause of death is basically the

initial action that has been the impetus

161

for, , all these tiny, uh, little be

physiological or biochemical derangements

162

that end up to be the mechanism of death.

163

So in other words, uh, blunt

force trauma to the head.

164

So let's say someone hit a dog,

uh, with a baseball bat in the head

165

and the dog is immediately dead.

166

The cause of death would

be that blunt force trauma.

167

The mechanism of that death

would be traumatic brain injury.

168

And that's kind of kind of the difference.

169

Another example would be a dog

with an intense hookworm burden.

170

So hookworm will just suck blood,

they, consume quite a bit of blood.

171

So if you have a very large

burden, it will result in a

172

depletion of blood from the body.

173

So the hookworm would be the cause

of death and the mechanism of death

174

would be the anemia or the lack of

red blood cells in the body that would

175

cause, multi system organ failure

and reduced oxygen throughout the

176

entire body that would lead to death.

177

DrG: What's the process for

doing a forensic autopsy?

178

Courtney Valerio: So it's

quite an intense process.

179

Usually our autopsies take

us at least two hours.

180

If there are any external wounds

they will take much longer.

181

And that's again due to all the intense

documentation for each individual wound.

182

Uh, so the process basically starts with

us reading our intake forms and that

183

will come with history of the animal, if

any, the immediate history, how it was

184

found, any kind of witness or statements

from animal control or law enforcement.

185

And then we would start

with our exam of the body.

186

So that's an external exam.

187

We look at the fur, we look at the

nutritional condition, we look at

188

the feet, the claws, the hooves, the

teeth, um, all of that good stuff.

189

And then we will take any, insects that

may be on the body at that time for a

190

preservation or attempt to rear them.

191

And then we move on to our internal

exam, which includes full skinning of

192

the body to see the subcutaneous tissue

and then opening up the chest cavity and

193

the abdominal cavity to view the organs.

194

Each organ is then removed and

photographed, and then we do a more

195

intense dissection of each organ, the

gastrointestinal system is completely

196

removed and it's opened up, we get

to see, you know, what did it eat?

197

How is it digesting?

198

Is it creating formed

feces, things like that.

199

All of these steps and all of these

organs are photographed as well.

200

And, then we end with the collection

of very small pieces of those organs,

201

and we collect them for two purposes.

202

Say we have liver, we'll collect

a piece of liver for fixation, so

203

we're stopping the rotting of that

tissue, and we may later use that

204

tissue for microscopic examination.

205

And then we'll also take a second

piece of liver for fresh tissue.

206

So if we ever want to attempt to culture

bacteria from the liver or fungus or if we

207

want to use that tissue for toxicological

exam or testing then we'll use that.

208

The fresh tissue we freeze and we have a

locked evidence locker in which we have

209

like freezers and empty space for room

temperature stuff and things like that.

210

Each case we kind of evaluate if we want

to go further, further meaning microscopic

211

exam and, or that ancillary testing.

212

Uh, and about, I would say

about half to two thirds of

213

our cases get microscopic exam.

214

And then ancillary testing.

215

So ancillary testing just means

any other thing outwith of gross.

216

So what we can see with our eyes

at microscopic exam of the tissue.

217

So that would be toxicological testing.

218

It could be a urine analysis, snap tests

for basic, like feline diseases of the

219

blood, like FELV, FIV, things like that.

220

After we've finished all of that,

we try to put all these pieces

221

of our, of our puzzle together.

222

And hopefully we do get an answer.

223

Hopefully we do get, why dead?

224

Or, or why euthanized?

225

Um, sometimes we don't.

226

Uh, and that can be dependent on tons

of variables including where in the

227

decompositional stage the body's in.

228

If we do need to do like, say, tox

testing, can the municipality afford that?

229

Or is the owner willing to go that

far, or do they want to stop here?

230

So those variables can

come into play sometimes.

231

Sometimes we don't think that that

testing is really going to yield

232

anything , or we don't really

have a direction in which to go.

233

Toxicological testing isn't like, It's

not like CSI where it's like, Oh, I

234

sent it to tox, test for everything.

235

You know, we still need to have

an avenue, you know, to go down.

236

And sometimes we, we just don't,

we don't want to be like blowing

237

800 for, for all this stuff.

238

So it can be, it can be tricky sometimes,

but we, we really do try, and we

239

really take a lot of time to think

about these cases, talk about these

240

cases, uh, to help us find an answer..

241

DrG: Is there any point at which you

would say that doing a forensic autopsy is

242

useless because of too much decomposition

or too much damage, or is it always best

243

to do an examination and see if there

is any information that you can get?

244

Courtney Valerio: So I'll answer this

with something that I was taught really

245

early in my residency, and you're

not going to know unless you test.

246

And the same thing goes for these bodies.

247

Even though they may appear to not have

any value, or testability, if they're

248

bones in a bag, I think still we can

take a look at them and see what we see.

249

We can even, bones in a bag, for example.

250

Uh, we may have some fur on those.

251

We may know the color or one of the

colors of the dog, or cat, which we

252

would be able to tell from the bones.

253

Are there any fractures?

254

Is there any evidence

of a healed fracture?

255

Things like that, that we still can glean.

256

Um, we can even use very decomposed

skeletal muscle for that may be

257

like a little bits hanging on,

we still may be able to glean

258

something, you know, from that.

259

We still can see, are there barbiturates

in the, in the skeletal muscle of

260

this animal may have been euthanized.

261

Um, so I think it does behoove

us to look at these bodies

262

in, in no matter what stage.

263

DrG: If we have investigators, , animal

control officers or veterinarians

264

that are listening to this episode

and they're, and they're interested

265

in having your services, how

should they preserve the body and

266

what is the best way to submit it?

267

Courtney Valerio: So it's

a really good question.

268

When you practice in Florida,

things decompose quite quickly.

269

Um, me coming from, uh, my residency

in Missouri, it didn't, you know,

270

in the winter at least, you know,

it didn't happen that fast, but for,

271

definitely for here, it, it can.

272

So the best that I can tell you

is, for, for those that can drive

273

to our lab, if you're able to, in

the first like 48 hours of finding

274

the body, especially if it's

fresh, then that's great.

275

Refrigeration is fine.

276

If it's going to take longer or if you're

going to ship that body to us, frozen

277

is probably going to be a bit better.

278

We do prefer fresh bodies.

279

However, we get frozen

bodies very, very frequently.

280

There are

281

artifacts that can happen

as a result of freezing.

282

It doesn't preclude finding lesions

in the body or anything like that.

283

It doesn't, you know, prevent

us from really finding answers

284

that we were going to find anyway

if we were just given it fresh.

285

Although it's kind of the

secondary, it's often the

286

necessary way to to store a body.

287

I think any really any way else.

288

is, is really not it.

289

Um, you definitely don't want to leave

a body out in the sun or outside, and

290

this is just because of two things.

291

The body will continue to decompose

even if it's cool, but of course

292

in Florida where it's very hot,

we will get that very quickly.

293

And then also because of scavenging.

294

Scavengers will go for the

natural body holes and attempt to

295

extract organs from those holes.

296

And because of that, sometimes we won't

see all the organs or, the skin will start

297

to decompose that it begins to form a hole

and then a scavenger will go in that way.

298

Um, so sometimes then it can

be like, was this a stab wound?

299

You know, was this a gunshot wound?

300

Is it a hole from a scavenger?

301

You know, sometimes we don't know.

302

So it, In any case, refrigeration

or frozen, you can always call us

303

as well, but if the body is outside,

please get it in, please double

304

bag it, and put a tag on the bag.

305

Another thing that's really

important for these bodies, not

306

only for storage, chain of custody.

307

So immediately right when you

pick up that body, a chain of

308

custody form should be started,

and then continue on with the body.

309

So the original form goes with

the body wherever the body goes.

310

So we receive a lot of chain of custody

forms from, uh, different municipalities.

311

Sometimes we have to create a

form when the body comes to us.

312

And that's just, in the grand scheme

of things, it is just best practice

313

to start the chain of custody form

right as you collect the body.

314

DrG: How can investigators get a hold

of you guys if they want to submit a

315

sample or a full body for an autopsy?

316

Courtney Valerio: So, on our

website for the lab, we have Dr.

317

Stern and his email and his phone

number, and Me, my email, my phone

318

number, and that's really the

easiest way to, to contact us.

319

DrG: Excellent.

320

Well, thank you very much for

giving us your time and sharing

321

your knowledge and thank you for

everything that you do for animals.

322

Courtney Valerio: Thank

323

DrG: you for having me.

324

I've enjoyed my time.