Welcome to the Deeply Rooted Business Podcast! In this exciting episode, hosts Rachel and Jess dive into the topic of ethical marketing and the importance of treating customers as human beings. In today's digital age, it's easy to get caught up in numbers and forget that there are real people behind the computer screens. We discuss the ethical principles of marketing, common practices in the online space, and how to humanize your marketing efforts. Join us as we explore the world of ethical marketing and its impact on your business.

Key Take Aways:

Honesty and Transparency in Marketing:

In the online business space, it's common to come across manipulative marketing practices. As new business owners or non-marketing professionals enter this space, they may unknowingly fall into these practices. However, it's crucial to establish a foundation of ethical marketing. Honesty and transparency play a vital role in building trust with your customers. Avoid practices such as fake urgency, fake scarcity, and misleading messaging. Instead, focus on providing accurate information and being upfront about your offerings.

Respecting Fair Pricing and Value:

One aspect of ethical marketing is fair pricing. It's essential to charge a price that aligns with the value you provide. Manipulative pricing tactics, such as charm pricing, should be avoided. Instead, focus on delivering value and ensuring your pricing is competitive and reasonable. Consider implementing a customer journey that allows customers to progress from low-ticket offers to higher-priced offerings. This approach not only provides value at every stage but also allows customers to make informed decisions based on their needs and budgets.

Privacy and Respect for Customer's Emails:

Respecting your customer's privacy is another crucial aspect of ethical marketing. Offer options for customers to opt-out of specific campaigns or promotional messages that may trigger trauma or discomfort. By providing this choice, you demonstrate respect for their personal boundaries and build trust. This practice shows that you are aware of their needs and concerns, fostering a positive relationship with your audience.

The Long-Term Benefits of Ethical Marketing:

Implementing ethical marketing practices may require a shift in mindset and approach. It's important to remember that ethical marketing is a long-term strategy that builds trust and connection with your audience. By focusing on honesty, transparency, fair pricing, and respect for privacy, you create a sustainable business that attracts aligned customers who genuinely value your offerings.

Resources for Ethical Marketing:

If you're interested in diving deeper into ethical marketing, there are several valuable resources available. The Ethical Move, a nonprofit organization, helps online business owners sell better while maintaining ethical standards. Duped: The Dark Side of Online Business podcast explores unethical practices in the online business world, shedding light on the importance of ethical marketing.

As you embark on the journey of ethical marketing, remember that change takes time. Don't feel overwhelmed by the need to make all the changes at once. Start by incorporating honesty, transparency, fair pricing, and respect for privacy into your marketing efforts. Gradually shift your business's structure and practices to align with ethical standards. By doing so, you'll create a business that not only reflects your values but also attracts loyal customers who appreciate your integrity. Embrace the power of ethical marketing and build trust and connection with your audience.

Stay tuned for the next episode of The Rooted Business Podcast! Don't forget to subscribe to catch all the valuable insights and advice from Rachel and Jess.

Note: The show notes are a condensed summary of Episode 9 of The Rooted Business Podcast. The actual podcast episode would contain more in-depth discussions, anecdotes, and examples from Rachel and Jess.

Welcome to the Rooted Business Podcast.

2

I'm Rachel, your intentional

marketing architect.

3

Jess: And I'm Jess, your

systems and ops guru.

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Rachel: In this podcast, we'll

talk through our experiences as

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seasoned business owners open up

about our triumphs and challenges.

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We'll share candid conversations and

invaluable insights to help you establish

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a business that stands the test of time.

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Jess: Together, we've navigated

the ups and downs of running a

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successful online business, and

we know firsthand the importance

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of finding harmony in your hustle.

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into the inner workings of your business

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operations and marketing strategies

while we peel back the layers to reveal

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actionable advice and practical tips

that you can implement right away.

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We believe that true success goes

beyond profits and the growth charts.

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That's why we'll explore the

critical role of wellness and

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mindset in your entrepreneurial

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is a real threat and we're

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here to help you avoid that.

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don't miss out on the Rooted business.

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Subscribe now and embark on this

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Jess: All right.

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Hello and welcome to another

episode of The Rooted Business,

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the Deeply Rooted Business Podcast.

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If you haven't noticed yet, change.

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Even though we did our due

diligence and copyrighted and

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checked it, we just decided to

get ahead of it, and here we are.

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So now we are not just rooted,

we're deeply rooted business and we

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are so excited you're here today.

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This is gonna be a Rachel

episode or she's gonna lead it.

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We're gonna be talking about

marketing and how to really treat

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your customers as human beings.

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I think especially when you're working in.

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It and you're not seeing and interacting

with your customers face to face.

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It can be challenging to just look at

numbers and forget that there is a real

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live person behind that computer screen.

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Getting all of your emails and

in, intaking all of your, your

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knowledge and all of that.

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And it can be hard to

view the human aspect.

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And not having it lost in all of

the numbers and all of the results.

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So today we're gonna be talking about

how to humanize your marketing along

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with just some practices that are

commonplace in the online space and what,

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how we feel about them from an ethical

marketing perspective and what we've

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seen and work in our client's business.

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Track 1: Yeah, I think this is one

of the things that is so important.

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To me, to Jess, how we discuss, some

of the things that we talk about, like

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offline or off recording of the podcast

is how the online space is just inundated

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with like very bad practices and I.

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When people who are either new business

owners or non-marketing, non-sales people

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come into the online business space, it's

so easy to get sucked into some of these

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practices, and not from a place of being

malicious, but from a place of just not

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knowing what else you could be doing.

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I think it's really important that we're

gonna establish the foundation of what

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ethical marketing and like the components

of it are, and then we'll talk through

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like the customer journey and how you

can actually implement some of these

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practices in your own marketing so that

you don't feel that kind of like ick.

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And I think that's one of the things

that I hear the most is that, oh,

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I don't wanna come off salesy.

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I don't wanna come off.

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With that, it re like reply to people.

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And so I think some of these are gonna be

really helpful to help you remove the I.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah, and I

think too from a different perspective

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of being an online service provider

who implements for other clients, like

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how to navigate those conversations

when your client maybe wants to

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implement something that they've

seen work for other people online.

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But may not line up with you ethically,

like how to navigate those conversations,

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how to educate your client about those

practices and why they may be harmful

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or why they may not be in the best

interest of them or their clients.

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So and how to Course correct and what

to do if a client does still want to

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implement those things and like how

to draw your own boundaries and lines.

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I know for me a lot of what I do is

launch online courses and programs and

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it may just be because for my clients,

and it may just be because I'm like in

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that space so much, but I feel like.

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I had this whole revolution last

year, probably about this time where

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I had read actually lemme get the name

right because I always say it wrong.

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I had read marketing Rebellion,

the most human company wins.

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Somebody had just it on an Instagram

story and I read it and I had

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this whole like, what am I doing?

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Like the veil had like lifted because

I think a lot of the practices that

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happen are just so prevalent in the

online space that you don't even

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it's just oh, this is what we do.

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Like we use charm pricing or

we use countdown timers, but

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not really realizing the.

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Effects or like what's

behind those tactics.

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So I've been definitely exploring

and learning from others who are

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farther along in this journey.

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So I'm gonna share some of

those resources as well.

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And I think since Rachel, works deeply

in marketing, has always had a very

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ethical stance, she's gonna drops

a lot of knowledge on this as well.

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Track 1: Yeah, I definitely agree

with the, once you start digging into

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this space of I didn't like that.

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Or, oh, there's a little

bit more transparency over

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here and I'm vibing with it.

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You go down this rabbit hole of

just how to be better as a business

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owner or as a consumer even.

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I think one of my biggest like

revelations was when I was reading

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the book Influence By Robert Cini.

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I always get his last name wrong, but it

talks about like the levers of influence

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from a marketing and sales effort.

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And as I was reading it, you just

see so many of these practices

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get essentially like misused.

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And I think what it does when

you're utilizing a lot of these.

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Practices for good or for bad,

but what essentially it does

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is removes the autonomy and it

removes the choice of the buyer.

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When you're using things like

fake urgency or fake scarcity, the

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countdown timers you're using very

like problematic like messaging.

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It really does put the person who is in.

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The decision making spot feel, this

level of manipulation that I think is

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really important to be hyper aware of.

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And my dream, my, maybe it's my

manifester goal in life is to.

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Essentially help people like understand

like these kind of like intertwining

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of capitalism, that like you don't

have to always consume, because the

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levers of influence are levering,

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Like you could easily.

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Take that step back, and I

think this episode is really

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gonna be like a beautiful blend

of some of our past episodes.

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The boundaries, the customer journey.

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A lot of those kind of like

levels of business where you

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have to put everything together.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah.

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And before we get into it, because we're

gonna get into it in just a second,

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but I do wanna just say one thing.

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When I first started diving into this

aspect and viewing my business and

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my practices, Like in my client's

practices, give yourself grace.

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Like I always say that it's it's

gonna be really uncomfortable at first

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because you're probably going to be

doing, or have implemented some of the

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things that we're gonna talk about.

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And that's just because it's

so commonplace in the market.

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But like coming with it from

an open mind that like, when

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you know better, you do better.

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And realizing that.

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It's not gonna be an overnight

shift, and you're gonna have to like

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balance like your own business needs

and lean into a more ethical way.

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And it's gonna be like a personal

choice, of trying to figure out

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like what feels good for you and

what doesn't feel good for you.

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So giving yourself a grace.

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This is definitely not coming

from like a judge, a judgmental.

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So with that, we're gonna get into one of

the first principles of ethical marketing,

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which is honesty and transparency.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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I think the counterpart of honesty and

transparency is that bro marketing.

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So it's the people who are telling you

to use a certain tone to say you have

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one spot left when reality, you have 10

spots left, is to use that countdown to

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really create that sense of that heartbeat

of oh, I need to take action now.

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That FOMO type of behavior.

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And when you're implementing the honesty

and transparency values in your business

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from like an ethical marketing side,

it's really being like . Not lying about

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whether your program's coming back.

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. I think that's one of the biggest

things is like I'm never running

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this again and people are like,

ah, I need to take action.

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And then they end up running it six months

later 'cause it's their signature program.

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So I think that's one of those things

is really making sure that you're

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being as . Clear as possible with your

leads, with your ideal client, with

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your audience, so that they understand

exactly what they're getting and how they

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can be participating in your business.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: And I don't

know if it's just me or I feel like

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consumers are getting clued into the

fact now that this is so prevalent

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that like whenever I start to see.

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A countdown timer or the charm pricing

or feeling like a lot of pressure to buy.

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Run in the over in the other direction

because I feel like there's enough

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people in this space starting to

talk about those tactics and why

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they work and how they work that

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I don't know, I'm just

like, get away from me.

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And I think there's definitely

a place to use those things.

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Like it's not saying like I never

use compound heimer in any of my

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cus my clients' campaigns, but it's

if there truly is like a date that

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they need to enroll by then that's,

real scarcity and you're just

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educating like your client about it.

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Arbitrary deadline that you just

pick up like, oh, for the next

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seven days, save a hundred dollars.

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Just because I thought seven

days was a good number, to

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help you have urgency to buy.

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So it's like where do you find the

line to use authentic scarcity,

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Track 1: yeah.

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And I think that's so funny

'cause I, maybe it's just me as a.

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Marketer, I'll go.

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And when I sign up for people's stuff

and Tripwires, which I'm always very

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bothered by the Tripwire practice itself.

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I know it's very

successful and all of that.

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But essentially Tripwire

is you opt in, you get.

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A specific offer for a c certain amount

of time, which is triggered by a cookie

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that's launched as soon as you opt in.

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It's maybe something that they have

for a hundred dollars and they're

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gonna give it to you for $15.

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And you have this like

very short window to do it.

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And it's hilarious because I think

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When , you know the tricks of the

trade, all you have to do is just open

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an inco, incognito browser, and just

re-op in and you get that deal again.

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So certain things where it's almost a lot

of effort and a lot of people pay a lot of

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money to get these like practices set up.

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I get these evergreen funnels going,

but I just think it's one of those

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things that you as a consumer may react

a certain way and I think as you become

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more aware, it might be just something

to clock, just something to be like,

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Okay, this is probably just a cookie

that has loaded on my cash, on my

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browser, and it's not somebody sitting

there gonna delete the deal in 72 hours.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Okay, so what else do we have?

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We have, so we talked about countdowns, we

talked about trip wires, we talked about

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fake scarcity, we talked about urgency.

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What about, so attracting

customers through transparency

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and honest information.

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That was our next point

we wanted to talk on.

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Track 1: I think this one is something

we've already talked about a lot, and

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one of the biggest things in this is

the using monetary social proof to show.

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Authority or to show like client success.

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I think this is one of those things

that really manipulate someone's choice

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because if you're driven by , Gosh,

I was just listening to a podcast on

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this, like the three factors of pain

when it comes to making, it's like

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relationships, wealth and health.

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That's what it is.

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And if you're there and you're

trying to improve your wealth and

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you see somebody throwing around you

can make 10 K in the next five days

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if you use these efforts and dah.

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That is, An attraction method, but has, it

is not rooted in anything of transparency

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or accurate information because you're

getting a sliver of information and

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not like we've talked about in the

past with the Black Friday campaigns or

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like the fake urgency of act now dah.

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So I think it's really important that's

like the biggest one there is how not to.

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Not to lead with that, even though,

and like this is where I think

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you've said it be in the past.

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So it's such a successful tactic

because so many people are

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conditioned to buy certain ways.

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But as you said, also, I.

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People are changing their buying behavior.

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People are becoming so much more

aware of certain things they

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need, like certain criteria in

order for them to make a decision.

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And I think it's just this

like trend that's happening,

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which I'm very grateful for.

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But yeah, I think that's probably

the number one way that people

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attract using inaccurate information.

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What do you have another thought on this?

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: So the

only thing, so it's like the numbers

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only tell one side of the story, so I.

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I'm down this like scammy

it's called Cruel World.

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Happy Mind is the channel that I've

been binging lately on YouTube.

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And she was talking about how a course

creator created a successful how a content

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creator created a successful course.

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I think she sold like $40,000,

like on her launch day or whatever,

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but she was a content creator, so

she has a super large audience.

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Okay, this course, some arbitrary.

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Arbitrary like topic.

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And the next course she created was

like, how to sell your course, because I

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launched this course that made $40,000.

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And it's like when you look at like

behind the scenes, like her course

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was like $2,000, so really $40,000.

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But that's 20 people.

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And based on her followers,

she had a million followers.

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Track 1: A very low

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: It was

a very low conversion rate, and she

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had only sold that one course for

herself and not for everyone else.

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So this is why I think if you wanna

use, like I, we love numbers, we love

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to brag about our numbers, but I think

that's why I love case studies is Like

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the why behind the numbers or looking

at the deeper number and not just like

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the sexy numbers, like revenue, but

what are those deeper analytics of like

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conversion that we've improved that sort

of way than just like those numbers.

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Because you can say you had a

$200,000 launch, but if you've got

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5 million, do 5 million followers

and you're selling a course for,

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10 grand, then that's really not.

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That great of a conversion and you

might not be in the position to

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teach other people how to do that

if you've only sold one course.

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Which is why I think just hiring an

expert that's in behind multiple,

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courses and have seen that can really

help you navigate that in a better way.

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But I think so many people, even when

you see people, like I always get , Funny

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how the, how to grow your Instagram

accounts, like those have the most follow.

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They're like, I grew my

followers this many days.

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And it's you're teaching people how to

grow on Instagram, which is like probably

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the most hottest topic on Instagram.

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No wonder people are following you right

now, . I just think looking at the why

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behind the numbers are just so important

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Track 1: Yeah.

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I think another one to add, and

this is probably a most frustrating

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thing, I would say for probably

both of us or people who are in the

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same mindset as us, is like the.

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I don't wanna call it like fake

authority, but like the people who come

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out and brand themselves as experts, and

maybe in this case it was this content

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creator is now a course selling expert.

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And the, because there's certain

levers of like vanity metrics.

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So like they have a million followers,

they're saying they made $40,000.

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That's a lot of money

to people who are not.

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Court content creators or

influencers or whatever.

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And I think one of those things

is as you're growing an ethical,

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responsible, kind of transparent

business, you can easily get

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frustrated by why are they believing

this person who is like obviously

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not the real deal, who's obviously

using levers of manipulation to get

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Their business working.

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And it could be easy for people who

are maybe in the same value set as

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us, where it's I could easily just

put expert at the end of this . And

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maybe then people will think.

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But I think the long

run here and like the.

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Longevity of running your business is

sticking to your values and showing

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your authority through your education,

through your knowledge, and the

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people who will see beyond the smoke

screens and the smoke and mirrors

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and all of that will flock to you.

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In a transparent, authentic

way, instead of the ones who are

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gonna still maybe not that far.

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And this is why I always like to say

like far enough in their journey to

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be aware of the manipulation tactics.

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Maybe they have to get burned once or

twice before they sit there and reflect.

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Oh yeah, that's not how I want to

be spending my money, or the people

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I want to spend their money on.

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I think it gives, it is very frustrating

for people who want to do better

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when you're constantly competing

with people who are essentially

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misusing the laws of marketing.

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And that's never gonna change,

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: yeah, I

think it's all about, standing in,

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those universal principles of abundance.

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And service.

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And that if you truly have, a service

heart and that's your goal is really

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to help up uplift others, then just

trusting that the universe is going

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to reward you with prosperity.

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Which is funny because this was my

card this morning, prosperity, so it.

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Your material needs are provided as

long as you follow your intuition and

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manifest your dreams into reality.

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So that was the card.

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Alright moving on.

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Track 1: fair pricing.

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Let's do fair pricing and value, and

then we'll go to the last one after.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Alright.

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Fair pricing.

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I've gotten burned by this before, so I.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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Same.

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I've paid a lot of money with, for someone

who was supposedly an expert and gave me,

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it was like a sales expert and essentially

just gave me like . A list of 20 things

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that I need to do on an everyday basis.

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And it was all spamming people and it

was, I'm like, I paid how much for this.

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This is the worst decision I've ever made.

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And I take full responsibility in allowing

my decision or my like FOMO or need

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for money to influence that decision.

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But yeah, I think.

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Oh, this one's a, this

one's a meaty topic,

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah.

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It was a program that was advertised

as a high touch program, and probably

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the first red flag should have been

when I hopped on a discovery call.

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I wasn't actually talking

to the program creator.

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I was talking to a sales

associate for the program.

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So I'm not even getting highly

touched in the sales process.

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How am.

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I should have, but like I legit asked

this sales associate like, this is

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where I'm at currently in my business.

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I wanna make sure that

this is right for me.

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These are my concerns that I have.

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This is like what I know about

myself and the support that I need.

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Does your program offer

this kind of support?

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Sales associate, said yes, but

of course they're getting paid

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off of commissions to sign me up.

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So I got into the program and

I quickly realized that it was

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not high touch surprise at all.

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And I had already made one or two

payments, which were pretty substantial,

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but I still had a good chunk to leave.

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So I emailed this person with my like

screenshots of their sales page and

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like, How I, what I was experiencing

in this program was not what they

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were offering or was not high touch.

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And the person wrote back and they

were like high touch is an ambiguous

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term, so what does it mean to you?

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And I'm like if you know it's ambu, why

are you using it on your sales page?

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Track 1: Yeah.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: So

long story short, I did not get my

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initial investment back, but I did

not have to pay the rest of the

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program, which would have been a lot.

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And the sad thing is like the

contents of that program were actually

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really good and valuable, but I.

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It did not line up with the price

point of what they were trying

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to charge for like high touch.

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So like this person knew their stuff

and what it looked like had happened

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is like they had a successful, like

either one-on-one offer or small group

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program and that they were trying to

scale it to a larger audience so they

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could make seven figs and some of the

value of that got lost in the translation

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of trying to reach more people.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: I think

a lot in the programs is like

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you'll have a successful one-on-one.

380

You're able to get clients results.

381

You use those testimonials when you

like push it into your group program,

382

but you don't have the systems set up

to be able to support the same kind

383

of transformation that you can give

one-on-one or small group when you're

384

like trying to deliver to the masses.

385

Track 1: Yeah, I think that's one of

those things that people will pay.

386

For custom answers, which is why

one-on-ones and done for you is so

387

successful, but when business owners are

trying to scale the enticing behavior

388

of trying to turn a one-on-one to a

group, a lot of that does get . Lost.

389

And there's so many people in the online

space that will pay the value of a new

390

car for programs that are essentially

group programs, that it's minimal touch.

391

Not minimal touch, but but like

certain areas are just not.

392

Worth $20,000, $15,000.

393

And there's so many people in this space.

394

Like I remember one time when I was in the

same mistake of a sales program that I was

395

in, the person was like, don't let them

get off of the phone call without a yes.

396

And so you keep talking to

them and talking to them.

397

And immediately, as soon as she

was saying that, I was like,

398

yeah, don't vibe with this.

399

This is not.

400

At all how you should treat people

when it comes to sales conversations,

401

and I think that this is where.

402

Everybody, like I've heard horror

stories of people having to take out

403

loans, people opening up new credit

cards in order to afford the online

404

pricing for online business owners.

405

And it's one of those things that

you can charge your worth or your

406

value or whatever, but there's a very

strategic pricing strategy that comes

407

with . Charging what people can afford.

408

Charging what ethically is market

value and really being competitive

409

in that sense, and not just draining

people's sales or savings accounts

410

because you can, I think that's the

part that really just bothers me.

411

Just 'cause you can,

doesn't mean you should.

412

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah, it's

a very fine line of, it has to be an

413

energetic match for the output of work

you're putting out because so many people

414

are like passive income, do a course,

do a group program, that sort of thing.

415

But it's there still has to be an

energetic match for that level of.

416

Put like that you're putting out and

then that person's gonna receive as

417

far as just for your money Karma to be

418

Okay.

419

And it may work short term, but I

think, I truly believe that long term

420

everything is gonna come back around.

421

And that if you wanna build a

sustainable business for the long term

422

You have to get, make sure people,

you're energetically matching those

423

people, because if not, maybe people

aren't talking about it outward,

424

openly about your company, your

business, your offer, but behind closed

425

doors, they're having conversations.

426

And eventually all of those conversations

are going to catch up with you and

427

you're gonna find that your offer is

not gonna, sell as well as it would.

428

You gotta think about

the long-term benefits.

429

When you're pricing.

430

You may be able to get $10,000, like

when I hear people pay like $10,000

431

for stuff that's not done for you.

432

And I'm like, Like

knowledge is only like one.

433

I would even say one small percent

of what is gonna make you successful?

434

Because there's so much other,

strategy and like implementation.

435

Know-how that that you can get by

investing that same money into an

436

expert that's gonna work with you

one-on-one or in a smaller container.

437

Track 1: Yeah.

438

Yeah, exactly.

439

And I think that there are so

many, there's so many done for you

440

service providers who will feel that

sentiment of how can someone pay?

441

Five, $10,000 to a coach who is only

giving you that knowledge, which for me as

442

a service provider, I know that I can give

you all of the knowledge in the world, but

443

if you do not implement, it's pretty val,

like worthless to your business, right?

444

Like it's just a strategy sitting

on a piece of paper someplace and.

445

It's the online struggle and one of

my friends actually just made a post

446

about this of like, how could you

even question a price tag of a service

447

provider who's doing it for you?

448

, who is literally implementing in

your business compared to these

449

coaches who have mastered their

marketing to be, the value of this is

450

going to take you to the next level

is gonna give you so much money.

451

And then when you don't actually have that

turn, it's, oh you weren't aligned for it.

452

Or you have a mindset block or

something's holding you back.

453

We need another session,

454

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Oh.

455

Track 1: but.

456

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Like a

Facebook group for their group program.

457

I did not purchase the program.

458

A client bought it and wanted me

to implement, and I just hang out

459

in there to see what they have.

460

But it's supposed to be a Facebook

group where he has coaches in there

461

giving you support to your question.

462

And literally, anytime

everyone, anyone ask a question.

463

They like turn it back on them and

like, why do you think that is?

464

And I'm like, no, just give

them the freaking question.

465

This isn't like a coach.

466

Give them the answer.

467

It's not like a, they're

trying to push back a mindset.

468

It's like literally logistically

and strategically they need

469

to know what is happening.

470

Yes.

471

Oh, the pain of being a little service

provider when these coaching, when

472

you know a client is paying $10,000

for a month for a coach and you're

473

like, Trying over here and they're

like questioning your price point and

474

you're like doing all of the work.

475

I remember doing a launch and.

476

My client had a coach that was

coaching her through her mindset stuff.

477

Okay, you need like you, if

you need that, go for it.

478

And then like I, because I'm an

online business manager, I know all

479

the expenses, so it's like literally

my expenses and like the credit card

480

fees were like the same of I made

the same money as credit card fees.

481

Track 1: Oh my God.

482

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Okay,

this is when I know I need to be

483

charging a little bit of work.

484

Asking credit is just sitting there.

485

Track 1: Oh my God.

486

That's the best thing I've heard all day.

487

Oh my God.

488

Yeah.

489

Okay, so actually how to not.

490

Be manipulative with your pricing,

I think is one of those things

491

you can totally embrace, like

embracing the customer journey,

492

embracing customer lifetime value.

493

If you're an e-commerce brand,

you can average order value,

494

like those are your metrics you

wanna focus on because instead of

495

Hoping and wishing that the

person who's paying you $10,000

496

gets the value out of it.

497

Or instead of being like I want to

make a hundred thousand dollars,

498

but I only have a offering of 10 k,

I need to get these people in it.

499

You can really play the long game where

if you have a proper customer journey

500

set up, like it's a year long like

501

Steadiness in your business.

502

If you have someone come in from a low

pro, a low ticket offer, upsell to a

503

mid ticket offer, and then upsell to

a high ticket offer, it's not that

504

they're sitting there and saying,

oh, low ticket, here's my credit card

505

again, mid ticket high, whatever.

506

You're taking one lead and

instead of having them swipe their

507

card with you one time, you're

nurturing them over the span of

508

Six, 12 months to be that full term.

509

So instead of you having to get

one client, . Or one lead that's

510

gonna spend $10,000 with you.

511

You can have one lead that spends multiple

times with you that adds up to 10,000,

512

but you have to deliver on the value.

513

You have to provide a proper experience

that gets them from point A to point B.

514

I think that if business owners just

implemented the customer journey into

515

their , Strategy into their marketing plan

that they could see that it's actually

516

a lot more sustainable to separate those

big charges and pull people through.

517

I was talking to someone the other

day who sells high ticket pricing, but

518

doesn't have any form of low ticket in

there, and I said, you could actually

519

Significantly improve your yearly revenue.

520

If you just created something between the

one and three month incubate incubation

521

period, instead of making them sit in

your audience for six to eight months,

522

if you just captured them initially with

a lower ticket item, one, you're gonna

523

make more money out of them 'cause they're

already converting at this higher amount.

524

But two, you're gonna support them

throughout their entire journey instead

525

of just hoping they get there eventually.

526

I.

527

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: I feel

like the pressure, so since we've been

528

talking, because prob probably up until,

I've had smaller offers, but I really

529

haven't implemented this customer journey

until we really, started doing our.

530

Podcast, I'm just talking

about this on a regular basis.

531

So the summer I work, to break out my

big retainer into different steps in the

532

customer journey and the like, pressure

that it relieves of trying to, one, not

533

having to get this person to sign up

for, a $10,000 offer right up the jump.

534

But also I love to call 'em

dating projects because I'm like,

535

let's just have a little date.

536

Let's just start with a strategy session.

537

I can get to know you, you can.

538

To know me and then we can decide,

if we want to, if we enjoyed this,

539

how I can support you further.

540

And that just feels like

such a better fit for me.

541

It's so much less pressure.

542

It feels like more aligned

with how I operate.

543

And because I know I'm able to deliver,

like I don't even have to sell.

544

Like I literally, I had

one of my strategy calls.

545

And she was like, okay, so

like how do we move forward?

546

'cause I need you all the time.

547

And like I didn't even have to

talk about oh I have a three

548

month support package next.

549

It's okay, we got in, we outlined what her

strategy, everything she needed to know.

550

And she's okay, but I need

you to help me do this too.

551

Done.

552

And if, that feels so much better for

me not to mention like jumping into like

553

bed with someone that you just met on a

20 minute discovery call six contract.

554

Realize that this person

is an absolute cuckoo case.

555

That doesn't feel so like I am all

for little dating projects now.

556

Track 1: Yeah.

557

And it gives you so much more control

over how and where you spend your time.

558

And if you, and like you had said,

if you are so confident that you are

559

gonna deliver, you almost don't need

to even worry about Them UPS upselling

560

themselves, and that's exactly what it is.

561

They've made that decision for

themselves that they want more of you.

562

And I think that's the most important,

like difference in someone who has to

563

make that decision to spend $10,000

on a multi-month contract with you.

564

Who, if you were using the sales

tactics, you could be hitting them

565

hard with all of the messaging.

566

You could be telling them, this

is what you're gonna get, this

567

is what you're gonna get, and

I'm gonna save you here and here.

568

Compared to the energy shift of.

569

Here, let's do a trial run.

570

Let's get a feel for each other.

571

And then, you can deliver.

572

You have no fear that any part

of your offering is manipulative

573

or missing or anything like that.

574

And then they say, wow, I need more.

575

That's the energy of a, like an ethical

customer journey, is that the person

576

essentially takes themself through it.

577

Because you're delivering on authority,

on trust transparency, because I

578

think that's like the most important

factors of a sustainable business.

579

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah, and if

you're not sold on this yet, another happy

580

side effect is like no more scope creep.

581

'cause I don't know how many times I've

signed on to work with a client and

582

they say they need this, and this, but

then you actually jump into the back

583

end of their business and it is like a.

584

Mess.

585

So it's like dating projects, especially

I know Rachel has a strategies offer that

586

she is like loves too, but like these

strategy sessions that allow you to get

587

a glimpse into your like client's backend

and what's really going on there and in

588

their head and spend a sub man substantial

amount of time, like really help set

589

you up for what you need to offer next.

590

I am a convert of the customer journey

offers or what is Value Ladder?

591

Is that what they call it?

592

Value Ladder offers for sure.

593

Track 1: Yeah, I think not enough people

know just how easy it makes your life.

594

When you have a customer journey set

up, you get to be removed from these

595

. Fearful tactics of sales and marketing

and like all of these efforts that

596

feel a little desperate and you get to

live in this wow, this was really easy.

597

Oh my gosh, I'm attracting

aligned clients and I have a

598

choice in who I get to work with.

599

And I think that's something that

a lot of small business owners or

600

new business owners who are either

in that lead and like client space.

601

You have a lot of nightmare clients

when that choice is removed.

602

When you're in that desperate space

of I need a retainer or I need a new

603

client, and you'll just take anybody who

you can take, it's one of those things

604

where you start having those nightmare

clients and you start oh yeah, this

605

is not aligned or anything like that.

606

So customer journey.

607

If we need to do four or five

more episodes on this, we are

608

down to do it . 'cause it is.

609

I know.

610

. Okay.

611

Yeah, what do we wanna end with?

612

What's the last thing we wanna close on?

613

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Okay,

so we've talked about honesty and

614

transparency as far as ethical marketing.

615

We talked about fair

pricing, value delivery.

616

We talked about high ticket

pricing and 10 K pricings.

617

We didn't, we'll touch on charm pricing,

but charm pricing is when like you change

618

the backend of your number just to make

it, it's a psychological manipulation.

619

Just don't do that.

620

People are smart.

621

Don't insult your consumer's

intelligence by doing that.

622

They can figure it out in their head.

623

Because it's a widely known tactic.

624

We did wanna talk a little bit about

like the respect for like privacy

625

as far as your customer's emails.

626

So let's just really quickly touch

on that point and then we'll close.

627

Track 1: Yeah.

628

One of the practices that a lot of

my clients have been implementing

629

is an option to opt out, not of the

entirety of the list, but of the

630

campaign and the promotional messaging.

631

A lot of sensitivities maybe around

Mother's Day or around . Fertility or

632

pregnancy, things along those ends where

there's a lot of trauma rooted in there.

633

You have the option to just mute it.

634

And that's exactly what we do for our

clients is we essentially say, you don't

635

want to hear these messagings mute it.

636

We'll bring you back into the conversation

once we're done talking about this.

637

And it really does build this level

of respect and just transparency for

638

your leads and for your audience.

639

That you're aware of these

kind of like trauma provoking

640

triggers in your own messaging.

641

So I think that's something to just bring

in and have a little bit of space for.

642

jess-_1_10-10-2023_100608: Yeah, for sure.

643

Alright, so we have obviously

have a lot to say about ethical

644

marketing, so I feel we're gonna.

645

Another part too, but I did wanna just

share because I feel like I'm still new

646

on this journey and I wanna honor like

the sources that I am learning from.

647

So some other resources, if this

episode piqued your interest is the

648

Ethical Move, which is a nonprofit

organization, which helps online business.

649

Owners sell better.

650

They're one of the first people

that I, and resources that I found.

651

I was actually on their team for

a brief amount of time and then

652

wasn't able to devote the amount of,

time and effort and energy to it.

653

So I moved on.

654

But they're still like a great

community to, who is passionate about

655

selling in a way that is ethical.

656

One of my favorite podcasts is Dupe,

the Dark Side of online business.

657

I love it just because it

really brought to light.

658

To me, like a lot of the like practices

that I didn't even know were wrong and

659

Maggie and Michelle were really able

to just break them down and talk about

660

like why these practices are wrong and

just shed light and help me do better.

661

So those are just two resources that

I've definitely leaned into when learning

662

about how to be a more ethical marketer.

663

Track 1: Yeah.

664

And as you go through this journey of.

665

Le getting further towards ethical.

666

Don't feel this kind of like shame

that you can't do it all at once.

667

99% of businesses are participating

in some sort of manipulation

668

or ethic, unethical tactic.

669

So you are changing the entire

structure of your business when you

670

do make this decision to change your

671

Ways, but I promise you, as you certain,

as you make these shifts you'll own,

672

you'll feel better about your own

business and you'll remove the ick

673

and you'll feel less salesy because

your business is set up in a more like

674

energetically non-manipulative way.

675

So don't make this kind of don't feel the

need to make all of these changes at once.

676

Slowly make the shift.

677

But then also just honor the

fact that like you're doing more

678

than a lot of people already are