With books about Dogmen, werewolves, Bigfoot, skin changers, and the rest of the stable of American monsters, Linda Godfrey took an unlikely route into becoming one of the nation’s pre-eminent researchers into strange animals. This week, I interview Linda about how her journey took her from being a reporter for a small-town Wisconsin newspaper to becoming a chronicler of cryptozoology with appearances on Sightings (man, I miss that show all the time), Coast to Coast AM , Monster Quest , The New In Search Of… National Public Radio, and many more shows.

Linda started out as an artist and was looking to draw cartoons for a syndication deal when she offered her drawings to her local newspaper in Elkhorn, Wisconsin, the Walworth County Week. Those cartoons turned into articles soon enough and after a short while, she found herself as a local reporter.

While there had been reports of a werewolf-like creature sighted by drivers on Bray Road near Delavan, Wisconsin (where Wendy and my band, Sunspot, just happens to be playing this Friday!) in the late 80s (with some perhaps related reports stretching back to 1936), it was when the reports came to the attention of Linda after Christmas in 1991 that the story took off and her articles started getting at first attention of Milwaukee news, but then even international news agencies picked up on it and the story exploded. As Linda was the journalist who launched the story, she became the face of it.

ADoes that seem like the description of a lost dog to you?

And after becoming that face of the Beast of Bray Road , it led to people sending Linda other weird reports of sightings of mysterious creatures, not just in Wisconsin, but from all around the country. She continued to work at the paper and also developed her first book, The Poison Widow , about a murderess who killed her husband and then tried to kill her four children in Whitewater, Wisconsin on St. Patrick’s Day in 1922.

After the release of that book, she wrote the work that she’s best known for, The Beast of Bray Road: Trailing Wisconsin’s Werewolf . Linda elaborates for us the different kinds of beasts that she speculates are out there, from dogs that can walk on hind legs, to skin changers and shamanism, as well as the difference between these creatures and the clinical form of lycanthropy (a psychological condition where you actually believe that you’re turning into a wolf, but you’re really just running around naked and howling at things.)

We even talk about the movie  The  Beast of Bray Road, a b-movie that  came out in 2005, but Linda had zero participation in. However, it looks like it was written by a guy from Milwaukee, so at least it has a local connection. However, when they say “Based on a true story”, well, that’s stretching it a lot.

Linda continued to release books throughout the 2000s (including the for-awhile-ubiquitous Weird Wisconsin and her own fantasy novel set in our little paradise of Madison, Wisconsin called God Johnson .)

But even if she delves into fantasy and other kinds of high strangeness, she can’t shake cryptids (and really, who can?) American Monsters her latest book has her leaving the Midwest and going nationwide in the lore of strange beasts. Of course, the most famous American beast is Bigfoot, and Linda gives us the skinny of her own encounter with a maybe Sasquatch right in the Kettle Moraine forest in 2012.

And finally we talk in more detail about the Milwaukee Lion. That’s right, we’re back to discussing the beast that’s been terrorizing the city for a couple of weeks now. I know last week, I told Wendy that I thought it was all hooey, but after my initial disbelief, I come around to grudgingly believing in it and Linda schools me as to why I should. First of all, there have been mountain lions spotted in Wisconsin several times and Linda’s husband almost got mauled by one not too long ago, just in the Kettle Moraine, not too far outside of Milwaukee. Plus there’s been sightings in Waukesha and Chicago in the past few years. It was fun to theorize with one of America’s strange beast experts on where the Milwaukee Lion might be headed next!

Welcome to See You on the Other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality, the

weird, and self discovery. And now,

your hosts, musicians and entertainers who have their

own weakness for the weird, Mike and Wendy from the

band, Sunspot.

So it looks like the Milwaukee Lion, Mike, there's been more

evidence since the last time we talked. What? Yep, there's been pictures and

stuff and Oh, good. I I I get into a little bit about the Milwaukee

Lion with Linda Godfrey, an author. She lives, near Elkhorn, Wisconsin.

Ah. And you remember we used to I'm

and one of our mannequins was held hostage at the Elkhorn Saloon for a long

Mike, wouldn't it? That's right. Yep. And we rescued her. Yes. She was caught

there for a better part of a year, trapped there with the

bikers and they, you know, they they just didn't respect her and

Oh. But we got her back and now she's safe with,

Sarmatica. Anyway, Linda Godfrey Yes. From Elkhorn.

Is an author and she she'll get into it Yes. In the

interview but she's she's the most famous for writing a book called the Beast

of Bray Road. And she was at the paranormal convention. Right? Yes. She was. She

did that. I think she had talk at the paranormal and she's been on coast

to coast she's been on every, paranormal show and stuff like

that. Yeah and she's probably I mean, one of the

foremost, cryptid researchers

of the Midwest, and she's famous for looking for stories of

werewolves and Native American skin changers

and, the Michigan dog man and things like that.

She also was one of the authors of the Weird Wisconsin book. Ah,

okay. So if you remember that I mean, everybody remembers the Weird Wisconsin book because

it was everywhere Yeah. For a long time and I asked her about that in

the interview and I'm Mike, well, I don't see it anymore, but, so yeah, Linda,

we talked about the Milwaukee line and she's got a story about how Oh, great.

They saw a mountain lion by their property. Okay. She lives by

the cattle moraine and, anyway, so the

Milwaukee Lion, there's I mean The legend lives on. Mike, last week Wendy when we

were talking. Yeah. Like, we were having some fun, and I

just was making fun of the whole enterprise and saying I was all b s

and stuff. And I just don't think it's I I It hasn't

been disproven yet. No. It hasn't. And, like, cops have seen

it. Okay. So Did you see they saw the the the tracks?

No. They're, you know, they found some I mean, somebody could have put those tracks.

Of course, it could be a hoax, but they saw the tracks. Anyway, I'm much

more of a firm believer in the Milwaukee line because there was a mountain line

in Chicago last year, there was one in Waukesha 10 years

ago. It's just not unheard of. Well, you know what? Wait. Wait. Hold

on. Let let me replay the let me replay the audio.

Well, I tell you what. If if they actually if they actually get

concrete proof of the Milwaukee line Yeah. We have a then I will

have a night out and that everybody

that's listening to this podcast and comes up and says, like, Mike,

I bet money on the Milwaukee Lion and you lost, I'll buy you a

beer. I'm so there. So we'll have a night, like, at the end of August

or something like that. If they can find Okay. The Milwaukee Lion before the end

of August, I'll buy everybody who's listening to this podcast and shows up I heard

it here first. A beer because I think it's all I think I think

everybody is jumping on this. Well, you know what? I think it's real. I

believe in the Milwaukee line. So it looks like

Mike's gonna be buying beer for us. Yeah. Probably

have to buy beer. You said. You didn't believe

it. I didn't. And I and now I've changed my tune in the Milwaukee line.

I think he's I'll look forward to a nice frosty cold one from you Mike

time route. Fair enough. Fair enough. So let me talk about

that in the interview and that's fine. Okay. Excellent.

Anyway, the other the rest of stuff the past week I've been listening to mixes

today from Mike recording Yeah. I'm a show I've been listening to those

lots. So trying to do that so, if you guys

like our band and I hope you do since you listen to this,

Sunspot you should be, we got some new songs would be a

treat for you and that'll be coming out, we don't know what date will be

coming out but we'll do a preview on August 18th. Oh, that sounds fun. So

let's do a preview on August 18th on the Jimmy Kaye show, and

we'll have links we'll have links to that. Great. Great. And

stuff. So we'll do a preview of the songs in one of our before one

of our Madison shows, and they do it like a live broadcast across the inter

webs. Oh, that's right. So that our You can share that link if people

wanna Right. Wendy the live thing. So people have a chance to be able to

hear us do some live showing, in just a

couple of weeks. Anyway, so that was exciting. So been doing

that, thinking about the Milwaukee Mike.

Yeah. I mean it's a lot has happened in the last week because we continue

to work at the studio and and then that that

consumed pretty much though. Right. The entirety of last week

and, well And I tell you on on Thursday, I

was out Mike I was out of mental

energy. Yeah. So on Thursday, I was working on writing

something, I think I was writing show notes for,

that episode and I just didn't have it. Yeah. Like it took me like 2

hours to write something that should take me like an hour. Well I knew you

were exhausted and out of energy when you did not request that

we go through Taco Bell on the way to your office. That's

true. That's true. Because you almost always the end of the

night stop, but Yeah. No. I, It's like there

must be some kind of mental exhaustion going on here. Right. Because it's like why

didn't I want food? I always it's like it's there, like,

$3 and it's just that feeling of,

foulness before you go to bed that seems to, it's so great when you're

doing it. Very appealing. Like Wendy get your head in it and it's awesome, Mike

just a full face full of nachos del grande, Mike this is the best

thing ever and then about halfway through you're like I'm

questioning my life choices. What has led me

to this point? It's true.

Anyway. But yeah, so it was exhausting but well worth it. I think, I'm really

excited about the new recordings and I'm excited for people to hear them and see

what they think and Yeah. And they're songs taken right from the podcast. So if

you're a regular podcast listener, you're gonna recognize the songs, but they're gonna sound a

lot Mike. Shinier. Yeah. Bigger, huger, like,

the stuff we put on the podcast a lot of times is very it's a

very raw performance. You know, we're doing it we're creating something,

quickly and for fun and something you might enjoy and then we take the best

of that and then we put it into a shiny beautiful sexy package

and then we, strut in front of you. That's right. Like seductively,

it's it's great. That's amazing. Yeah.

So anyway we should get, to the main event which is

our discussion with Linda and she's I mean, I've wanted to

talk to Linda Gabby for a long time and I didn't realize that she was

from Wisconsin for a long time. Wow. So that's kind of fun to discover that.

So I was want because, you know, when the stories, came

out of this, quote, unquote, werewolf near

Whitewater Mhmm. Right. When we were in high school, I really was, like, oh,

my God. If I mean, there's a werewolf in Whitewater. That's so cool. That's crazy.

And then later on, this woman woman wrote a book on it and she

was appearing in all these shows and everything like that. And then I saw that,

you know, she's from Wisconsin. And then she'd done all these, you know, all these

different, stories since then and you know she only lives 15

minutes from where I grew up, so that I thought that was exciting that we

do have, you know, we have all these Mike think about our Very exciting. Think

about our UFO hunter, you know, friends and stuff. We've had

2 UFO experts from southeastern Wisconsin. Now we have a

Bigfoot, you know, like a a wolf man expert from southeast

Wisconsin today, I don't know if there's something in the

water here I definitely not in the it must be in the snow well I

was gonna say maybe all those those winters are being cooped up make people sit

there and think and wonder about things and I don't know. And give us cabin

fever, so it's like okay. Let's start seeing things. Yeah. But instead of

having some wonderful fantasy we think about monsters. Well.

And, it's just interesting because there's plenty of weirdness right now

in Backyard and I love that and, but Linda's done stuff

for, I mean, books all over her country. Her last book is called

American Monsters. Okay. And that's about, I mean, that's

about different folk tales and legends and monster settings all across the

country. So, so Linda has spread from just

being Mike the local reporter Yeah. In Elkhorn, Wisconsin writing about the

beast at Bray Road to someone who's, you know, been on every, I mean,

Discovery Channel, History Channel, every kind of Bigfoot

files and stuff like that. That's impressive. Linda's always on it. Yeah. Great. Well

Yeah. Let's hear what she had to say to you. Okay. Let's do it.

So this is a special treat today because, I've been

reading this author's work, for a long

time now. And as somebody, from Southeastern

Wisconsin, Linda Godfrey, was a hero

to us who are our heroine to us who are interested in,

weird phenomenon, paranormal, and and cryptozoology and

everything like that. And so it's really fun to have her have her on the

show today. Hi, Linda. How are you doing? Hello. I'm great. Thanks.

And, so where are you right now? Are you in

Wisconsin right now? I am. Yes. Yep. I'm sitting in my

office about 10 feet from a very deep Kettle,

just south of Kettle Moraine State 4, Southern Unit. Okay.

That's exciting. So, so I grew up in Big Bend.

Oh, Northern Unit. Yeah. So right down the street, not not

too far away, and, so did my sister, Allison, from

Milwaukee Ghosts, who I know you've probably talked to before a bunch of times.

Lovely person. Mhmm. Well, good. At least somebody thinks so. That'll be

great. Anyway, we just you

know, so you've I mean, you've written so many books, and I've been looking up

your, you know, your, your bibliography too of all the books you've written.

And I've gotta say, from true crime to

fantasy to all this kind of nonfiction, you

know, about weird stuff, how do you, I mean, how do you have the time

to write? Like, how often do you write?

Well, you know, when I've got a contract for a book,

I parcel it out and I do the math and say, okay. If I'm gonna

do this many words in this many

months or or weeks or whatever, I'm gonna have to come down

to this many words a day. Mhmm. And then I just make

sure that I, you know, stick to that as closely as I

can. And I'm fortunate

in that. My husband has actually

earned our main living for all of this Mike,

so I've been able to really get into it full

time and and devote myself to it. And it's,

other than artwork, I'm also an artist. Okay. You know,

that's really my main, my main work that I do.

Well, how would, and I just I mean, how many books have you

published? I think

I I think the one I just finished will be 17, and

that's that's counting, the fantasy book. Okay.

Wow. That's I I mean, that's why I say, Mike, that's what I was saying,

like, how often do you have to write I mean, for 17 books, the,

I mean, just getting in there. I mean, that's like the guy that wrote the

Goosebumps books. Right? Like, you wrote 50 of them. Well, you

know, and some some are a little more involved than others

and, you know, longer than others, and the the research

varies. But, I really got into it kind of late

in life, you know, or I think I have a lot more.

And well, let's let's talk a little bit about that because I remember I mean,

most people who are in the Midwest would probably

recognize your name just from the cover of

Weird Wisconsin because that was in every

bookstore around I mean, prominently

featured in every bookstore, I mean, like, in, like, the year

2000. Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, it was it

would have been, 2005, I

believe, and then Weird Michigan followed it right after.

And, I I I just so I just so it's Mike if you saw if

you were in Wisconsin, and you went to a bookstore, you saw

Weird Wisconsin. So Linda is one of the authors on it,

and I always thought that was a great book and a a great website, and

I was always excited about it. Yeah.

But let's get into a little bit, what got you

into wanting to write about weird stuff in the first

place? Like, were you attacked by a werewolf? No.

Okay. Just making sure that you didn't have something it's like, you know, you

saw when you were a kid, you were attacked by a a werewolf and then

you had to write about it later in life or something like that. Like, I

gotta I gotta find him. No. No. They were probably the

last thing on my mind when I was a kid, but my dad

was a science fiction fan. And so we always

had, all of those early science

fiction, magazines and and,

monthly collections of stories around the house. So, you know, I

grew up seeing illustrations of spacecraft and the

little green men and all that kind of thing, and I

was really into, children's

fantasy, you know, anything to do with fairies, that kind of thing. I spent

my summers combing a quarry for these little quartz

marble or marble y, well, they no. I should say quartz

rocks that my sister and I called fairy teeth. Okay. You know,

that it was just our idea, but we somehow decided these little

rounded, smooth little pebble things were fairies

teeth, and we amassed a huge bag of them

from this from this quarry. And we believe that the fairies lived

in the street lights. We had this whole fairy cosmology

figured out. You know? So I was kind of my head was kind of in

these places when I was a kid, but I really wasn't

thinking werewolves or, you know, I I didn't know what

cryptozoology was. So it wasn't

in my head to do that ever. So what,

what was the kind what was the trigger that you you thought, you know

what? I'm gonna I'm gonna start writing about this stuff, and I'm

I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Like, you know, what was what was

an ex it was an experience or was it a news story or I

mean, what got you into it? I mean, beyond the initial

childhood fascination with, you know, fairies and the like?

Well, my degree is in art education, and

I had done, some work in, different schools

teaching art and also was working, on fine

art and had some gallery representation and things

like that. So I was going on in that vein,

and I had this real desire

to do editorial cartoons or a weekly comic

strip. And I I wanted to go for the big kahuna and have nationwide

syndication. Sure. And so I really really worked at that.

I worked so hard. I had, 12 different

complete comic strip concepts written out with and

that's 12 in order to submit to a syndicate, you had to

have about 12 weeks of finished artwork and comics,

which is really a lot of work. I was gonna say that's a daily that's

a daily strip for half you know? Yeah. It's a quarter.

Exactly. It's a lot of work, and I did that, and

I was getting really close. You know, I was on a first name basis with

the director at, King Features and,

almost got one, and then just kind of at the last minute, it was turned

down. And I was so

discouraged that, I decided I would just draw

some new, newspaper cartoons for free and just

get in print, you know, maybe that would help. So I went to

the county Walworth County newspaper called The Week, which was a

really nice weekly paper. It had a lot of good features and

editorials. It wasn't just, I've heard some stories have

wrongly referred to it as, like, one of

those advertiser type of of things. And it had

ads, but that wasn't really what that newspaper

was about. But they agreed to let sure. We'll take something free. And

they Mike the first ones I did, so they started paying me $8 a

week. Okay. Hey. Everybody starts somewhere. And

this was not the Great Depression. I mean, you know, it's it it

was, like, pretty much, okay. Just a little bit more than free, we'll give you.

Right. And, I did that for a

while, maybe, close to a year.

And one day, their, feature writer main feature

writer quit. I happen to be on the phone with the editor

and he said to me, hey. How would you like to, be a feature

writer? And, you know, report for the newspaper. And

I thought for a second, and I was thinking, I never had a journalism class,

but, how hard could it be? Because I I did

always do very well. You know, writing was always my second love,

and, I had all the advanced courses in college, and I I did

like it. And I thought I could do it. So I said, sure. And

then one of the very first stories that I got

came about from people telling me that they were

hearing rumors that people around Elkhorn, Wisconsin were seeing

something they called a werewolf out on this country road

called Bray Road. Mhmm. That sort of a, shortcut

between 2 highways out to the hospital. And what what year was

that? Well, that was happening in December

of 1991, and the story was

actually printed on that New Year's Eve weekend. So

it was, the December

1991 into January 1992.

And I remember I was in high school at the Mike. And and so just

to to piggyback on that when like, the idea that

there was a werewolf within, you know, 50 miles of my house. I

mean, I was like, oh my god, this is crazy. And it came and it

came not too long after after that, the horror big horror

con ghost story that came out. And I was like, Wisconsin

is a hotbed of paranormal activity, finally.

Well, it actually is, and it actually has been for a very, very long

time. But, you know, I didn't really take it all that seriously

at first. Sure. I I remember laughing when I heard about it,

and it just seemed absurd to me. But then I

discovered that I knew people who, were saying

this and I didn't think that they were big jokers or anything like

that. I And then I dug around a little and found out that our

county animal control officer actually had a file folder marked

werewolf in which he was compiling all of the

sightings that people were calling in. And 2 things about that

struck me. 1 was that hoaxers and jokers

don't normally call in to the local authorities

and leave their name and contact info Right. So that they

can be contacted and prosecuted later. You know?

So that struck me as, there might be something to that. And

then when I went and looked at these names,

again, and they seemed like just normal regular people and I

talked to them. I believed them. I didn't think that they seemed

like they were joking or hoaxing. They seemed genuinely frightened

most of them. Mhmm. And that was what

really did it. And talking about it with my editor,

you know, people would say, well, you know, what made you think this

was a newspaper story? Well, I'm sorry, but when your county animal

control officer has a file folder labeled werewolf,

that's news. Right. And that's, I mean, that's the hottest story in the

county. Mhmm. You know, that's I mean, that that was on the new I mean,

that was on the, the Milwaukee TV news and things like that. Like, it it

was a pretty sensational story at the time. It exploded. I

was not prepared for that. I thought it would just you know, people would

laugh a little and it would go away. But instead, it went,

as you said, on all the Milwaukee TV stations. I started getting,

phone calls to be on radio stations all around

the United States and into Canada. It

was just something that people

seem to have this inordinate interest in. I

remember Inside Edition came out and sci fi's new in

search of, and this was all just happening. It

was just crazy. And then the thing that,

occurred after that was not only did people start writing to

me, I became sort of the de facto go to person

for those who saw, not even just werewolves,

but, and I use that term mostly because I don't think they're werewolves.

Right. But, people who saw

Bigfoot or Odd Birds or other

weird things. And the

media, every time they wanted a story about werewolves, they would

come to me because really no one else at the time was

collecting contemporary sighting reports of upright

canines, upright unknown canines as I really like to

call them. Sure. Which is the closest thing they could find to a werewolf.

And so I I became both the the media go to

person and the reportee or report,

person reports witness reports is what I'm trying to say.

And so you started getting phone calls and letters and things like

that from people, I mean, who were who had seen weird stuff

Right. And who weren't even who who had no relation to

the Beast of Bray Road. Right. I mean, they were coming

from the Virgin Islands, all states of the union,

all over the place, and, of course, Wisconsin too. And

I didn't really know what to think at that time, but

I did believe that, at the very least,

it might be folklore if it turned out to be nothing else. And, I

thought somebody's got to keep track of these. I really owe it to all these

people who write in good faith, and I

owe it to to people who may be interested in the future to just keep

track of these things. And I began my own files,

and I have to say it was that was

1992, and my first book did not come out until

2003. So it was 11 years. I worked for the

paper for 10 years, and during that time,

I wrote articles on lots of other things, even some that

won national awards. I I wrote maybe 4 other articles

that were just basically update columns on The Beast

of Bray Road. Mhmm. And never won a thing for

either or any of those. You know?

They were just kinda there. In fact, people around here mostly remembered me

for the, personal life column that I wrote about

my family every week. My poor kids kinda grew up having you know, every time

they'd throw their socks in the living room, they'd have, the whole town would know

about it. Okay. You know? So I was doing

a lot of other things. I was teaching part time. I went I went back

to school to renew some of my teaching

credentials. I really was not even at that

time contemplating a career

chasing strange animals and writing books about them.

And in fact, my first book was Local Historic True

Crime, and that was The Poison Widow, a True Story

of Sin, Strict 9, and Murder, which was about this sensational,

sensational poison murder and ensuing

trial that happened in Whitewater, Wisconsin

in the 19 twenties that was almost completely swept under the

rug. It was a very conservative community and nobody wanted

to talk about the fact that they had this,

lurid as they Mike as the headlines often said,

incident where this woman fell in love with her high school border

college border. And between the 2 of them, they murdered their husband with strychnine and

would have gotten away except then she also tried to kill their 4 children.

Yeah. Nice. Yeah. In the twenties, this just wasn't done.

And, I spent 6 years researching that and,

when I was ready to put it together I sold it without too much trouble

to Trails Media, which was the

publishing company for Wisconsin Trails Magazine. When you were doing

the research on that, and like you said, like, it's you know, Whitewater is

not a big town and you go in there and you try to you talk

to people about something or do the research on something unpleasant.

Like that. It's like walking in the playing field and say, like, hey. How about

that Ed Gein guy, everybody? Like him? Look at those lampshades.

That skin too. Yeah. Was that your aunt he got? Yes.

So you can see, you know, in a in

a in a large city, you have plenty of people interested in the weird stuff,

like like Milwaukee. I got my sister who's just like, oh, yeah. We'll we'll take

your weirdest stories and disasters and tragedies and things. But in a

small town, those things, I I I feel like they they hit closer to home.

They do. Although, it's interesting. Most people were

really very, very fascinated with it. The only people who

I had any trouble with, was and it wasn't really trouble. I

could just tell they kinda wish I hadn't done it, but it was one

of the surviving relatives, you know, because her all of her

children except the youngest were, passed away by then and she was

deceased. And, the most of most of the major

players were, but it was just really weird because there were

coincidences that popped up. For instance, the night that the

4 children were to be killed, one of them had invited, their

little friend along on this outing where it was to happen.

And I found out the little friend had grown up and was my next door

neighbor in Elkhorn. Oh, man. That's great.

I know. It's amazing. And when she was

finally suspected and tracked down and charged,

it turns out the person who did it was, a

young attorney named Godfrey who happened to have been

related to my husband. So that's

that that is the story you were meant to write, I think. Yeah. It was

like, this is personal. Wow. So,

yeah. But 6 years 6 years of research. Yeah. So you'd

spent 6 years researching, this

story, got a book deal, wrote the book.

Mhmm. And, then what I mean, what was your

your next book, was The Beast of Bray Road. Right?

Right. And that was sort of my intention. The publisher

said that, well well, I I brought in the manuscript,

it wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was, you know, just,

2003, but that was still when you had to print out

the whole manuscript and put it in a big box and

either mail it or physically deliver it. And so I drove over to Black

Earth to deliver it, and he looked at me and he said, okay. So what

do you got next? And I said, well, would you believe werewolves?

And, again, not believing in werewolves, but I've learned that publishers think it's a

much sexier term than unknown upright canine. Oh, and

and, oh, and just to say, we don't wanna spoil the book for anybody who

wants to get through it, and and it's it is a a very interesting book,

and it's it's a good story of the time and also how these

things, you know, how

phenomena went before the Internet. You know, like

how stories get developed and and how things change and,

in the way before people, like, posting in online forums or somebody taking a

picture on Facebook and kinda how stories get spread. I think it's a good

story of that. Thank you. And, yes, that's actually kind of the

basis on which I sold that. You know, I said I want to

write not just some lurid book

of scared people running from monsters, but I wanna

show how this sort of took over the town socially

and how the people who lived there were affected,

what people did to react to it in town, you know, because we had

things happening Mike the local bars were offering silver bullet

specials and and there were the bakery was making lake,

the bakery was making werewolf cookies, Lakeland Bakery,

and we have busloads of tourists coming up,

from Illinois and taking rides down Bray Road. So

there was all of this, kind of circus Mike atmosphere going

on, and I thought that was really, at the time, as

interesting as the monster to just kind of document the

social aspects of what happens in a town when

you have this kind of thing come in and just unsettle everyone.

And, and you said an interesting term, but you said it a couple of

times. You say upright walking canines?

Right. Because they're mostly identified

by the fact that they walk on their hind legs.

And Otherwise otherwise, they're canine. Right. And and so do

you think that, Mike, when people saw it, were

they seeing an upright walking canine walk for, like, 5 minutes or walk, like,

50 steps? Probably

both. I mean, there was one incident where

several junior high kids were chased for quite a distance

by 1 when they were out sledding. And

my son one of my sons at the time, knew one of those kids

very well, And he said, mom, he's not joking or making that up. He's

really scared. They really saw it. You know? So I tended to believe them,

but, every time they would look back they would see it still coming

on its hind legs. There were, ones

that would come across the creature while it was maybe

kneeling or crouching over something, and then it would

stand up and start to follow them. Juan had

to run toward her car and jump at the car.

So it seemed to be that, the the real hallmark

of this creature was that it could walk, stand, and run

upright, and use its forelimb pause for,

things that you wouldn't really expect them to use. You know, people would see

this thing holding something in its hands,

with the palms up and then bringing both hands to its face to eat,

kinda like we need a corn on the cob. Sure. Yeah. Except

it didn't really have the fingers to grab around it. Although people

23 years later, people are still telling me that when they get

a good look at those front paws or even the the rear paws,

they'll say, you know, they were paws, not,

hands but they were elongated. They were like,

almost between paws and hands. And that makes sense

because something with very long paws

and, forepaws and and

rear paws would both be able to balance better

and hold on to things or use those front limbs in ways

that these sorts of animals usually can't, and it

would give them some advantages, I think, and and give them

that, chance to sort of advance via natural selection.

Well, that's a that's an interesting theory. And, I mean, I know that

you've been researching the reports of this, and it's

not just Wisconsin. Like, you I mean, it's Michigan. It's

Texas. Like, how many how many areas do you think

that you've heard reports of of the upright

canines, the the dog men kinda thing? Oh,

they're all over. Canada is

really one of the hot places lately. I'm getting more and more

from California. Some of

the other West Coast states, the whole

East Coast, east of the Mississippi, it's just about every

state. Texas, Oklahoma are are pretty

active. The only ones that don't seem to have it so

much, and maybe it's just because the population is more sparse or people

haven't heard of me, maybe the terrain just isn't right, would be

those, kind of central, northern, western

states. Utah, Idaho, you know,

right in there. I haven't gotten any from those

states, but, but the Four Corners area out there is

really active. You know, I have a Wendy, JC Johnson, who, gets

all kinds of things. And I also should mention I think that there are different

types. Some seem like they very well

could be just some sort of natural animal that for some

reason has learned or adapted

to walk and run on its hind legs, which is not a supernatural

act because any kind of mammal just about can

be trained to do that or can learn to if its fore paws or front

limbs are injured or missing. Sure. Right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So,

the and probably 90% of the reports I get

don't have it doing much else than that. But

then there's another group where they are different, and there's one

type that happens to come in often during,

or, excuse me, around Native American

reservations, and these are a little different.

They're bigger. They're generally jet black.

They have actual shoulders rather than just

more muscular upper forelimbs. Okay. And that's a big deal.

It's a big difference because primates and

people, humans, have, our

shoulders are created so that we can grab

branches, grab things, hang on to stuff.

We have elbows that rotate in a certain way so we can

pitch. Canines don't really have that type of shoulder

structure. They've got, something that's

So when you think of a when you think of a, a wolf man

or, you know, a human, when you think of that traditional look or a ape,

it's the the shoulders are, like, to the side of the head.

Right. And then when you think of a dog, this you know,

or a cat or, you know, a quadrupedal creature, the

shoulders are forward facing instead of side to

side facing. Am I kinda getting that right? Yeah. Yeah. What would sort of correlate

to shoulders? They they still aren't really shoulders, but kind of the the same thing.

But picture your dog sitting up and begging for a treat. You know, he's got

these little arms right in front of him, and if you look at a

picture of a dog that's sitting up, you won't see those shoulders. It'll be

a smooth line from the neck, right down to the body,

you know. So it's a it's a very different sort of thing, but there are

there's a certain subtype, that has

very large size, shoulders,

paws that are described as actual hands, and red

glowing eyes. And I

associate these with, different types

of transforming creatures

that are related perhaps to, the activity

of certain types of medicine men on these reservations that

have turned down what, my native friends would call a dark path,

and that and that they're able to still not in my mind,

they they they don't necessarily transform

bodily where, you know, all of their bone structure is

changing and their corpuscles change, and their atoms change, and, you know, they

they turn out their their DNA changes them into a

canine. I don't think that's what what is happening. But there's a certain

illusion, and they're able to take their, according to

what I've read, their spirit bodies are astral doubles

and project this image of one of these creatures.

So would that be Mike clinical lycanthropy where they, you know, they

they get into that belief that, they

are a werewolf? Well, it takes it beyond that. I

mean, they I think in these cases,

they still know what they are. They're very conscious that they're projecting an

image, but because they're starting with human and kind of building

around it, that's why they end up with the with the eyes and with the

with the, well, not the red eyes, but with with these very

dominating eyes with the shoulders, with the,

hands, that kind of thing. Whereas people who have the clinical lycanthropy,

which is a sort of

psychological syndrome, believe that they are werewolves

to the point where they can think that, okay. This is what I'm going

through to change. Look in a mirror and see themselves

as a wolf. But you or I walking up behind them would just see a

person looking in the mirror. And first, there's been an instance of

this out on Bray Road where there was a person who had

something like this, some kind of psychosis. You know, I wouldn't presume

to diagnose it exactly. But but he had

this habit that people people were calling the 911 and saying,

help. We're out on Bray Road, and this naked man just jumped on the

car, and he's on our windshield. And Oh,

man. Notice they weren't saying there's a

werewolf on our car. They were saying, there's this naked man who's on

our car. That's what they saw. He undoubtedly was viewing

himself as a werewolf, but, again,

that's a different sort of thing. Okay. So you see

it Mike there's a Michael Crichton book, and and eaters of

the dead. Mhmm. He kind of talks about

a tribe that that does that with bears that have, like they

they were like bearskins. Mhmm. Yeah. And, you know, they

they project their their bear presence onto other

people Bear walkers. Yeah. Bear walkers is a good way to put

it. That's the term. Yeah. And, and so that's

so you're seeing is there's the there's the sightings of

upright canines that, you know, like, just walking around that

learned somehow to to walk on on 2 feet, and then

there's more of the mystical kind.

Mhmm. Well yeah. And and it's not cut

and dried, but it's just what I have observed. Sure.

And I can't say for sure what any of them are. Of course. And

I actually have, started moving toward the

idea that there may be more to the mystical ones and more

types of mystical ones than I realized

previously. Because, after you get time after time

after time where people are telling you that

it looked me in the eye, and it had this intelligent look as

if it were smarter than Mike, and it was

superior it was superior to me and that,

I had this feeling that it was sending me You don't have a

werewolf coming at you right now. Right? We have a mini

werewolf. We have and and

t, I just saw somebody drive by, so that was a major event

for him. Sorry. Sure. But, anyway,

I've totally lost track where I was. We were going to the different types

of Right. Of of the more, Mike, the shaman

style. Right. Right.

And there are actually different

animal forms that the shamans are able to

assume even very small forms because they're just sort of

projecting and or inhabiting, say, a large moth

or an owl or, among some of

the Northern Algonquian tribes, bear walkers are very, very

prevalent. And all of these things are

still being practiced today. It's not something from the distant past,

and they're very similar actually to nature based,

tribes with shaman religious leaders all around the

world. It's not just the Native Americans who have this

sort of traditions. Others will call them by different names,

but it's it's a very basic, worldwide type

of thing. So, you yeah. So you have

the possibly naturally adapted animals. You have some

that are these conjured things. There

are supposed to be other types of dark beings that look like

wolves that are conjured via, different

kinds of really horrible black magic practices, you know,

that I don't even wanna go there. But

those are supposed to be able to produce some of them. Some

people think that they may be aliens or that they

are produced by government experiments. For sure.

I think that personally, canine DNA

and human DNA are just not

compatible enough to make anything,

you know, the DNA just doesn't work that way. I don't

think maybe maybe if you were super duper super duper super

advanced, but I don't think we're that far yet. Right. That's the island of

doctor Moreau Mhmm. Or whatever. And and And and I don't Scientists gotta

be hiding something if if if they're that far. Exactly.

And Mike I keep saying, what would be the point? Why would you

want human Mike superintelligent

canines?

For, I I guess, a more reliable, hunting

partner, maybe, dog? Or Maybe. But, I mean, why

would you want something that's, you know, 7 feet tall and

vicious as all get out and smarter than you? You

know? Or at least it thinks it's smarter than you. Right. No. That'd be the

that'd be the last thing I'd want walking around. Exactly. Yeah. It's doesn't

seem like it would be to humanity's benefit. And then there's

also there's another category which I call the phantom

dogs, and these would be Mike the,

places that are said to be haunted by hellhounds, which are generally,

large black dogs that will chase somebody and then pop out of

existence. You know, they go invisible. Or they show up

in people's bedrooms where all of a sudden there's this

tall upright wolf thing often described as

Anubis, the Egyptian god of the dead. Sure. In in the

bedroom, 1 or 2 of them just staring around, and

then they vanish. So you know this is not a flesh and blood

animal you're dealing with. It's something else. But they don't act like

skinwalkers. They don't act like, the the

highway walkers. There's something completely

different. So there's a whole range of possibilities that

people are seeing, and, I try to

address this in my books then and

show that there are differences between them. And, actually, it's really only

become more and more clear to me as I've written these books over the past

13 years or so, that these different categories

exist more clearly than I thought in the beginning. So you in the beginning, you

might have thought of, okay, there's here's a one size fits all explanation. It's just

gotta be dogs that are walking around. You know? We've seen them we've seen them

do it in movies. We know they can be trained to do that.

Right. You get a big dog walk and and they're, you know, they're strong as

all get out. So a big dog walking on 2 legs, scaring the crap out

of people, fine. Mhmm. Right. But

then, you know, you get a couple of these

bedroom phantoms or a couple of the

Skinwalker type manifestations, and you think, well, there's just a few. You know,

it's really not worth bothering. But then they continue to come in and continue to

come in, and the more people hear about it, the more people write. And

then I have to start thinking, well, this is getting to be

significant even if it's still not, you know, like 50% of

the sightings. It's a lot of sightings, and there are a lot of people having

this experience. So, I always say

if you continue if you say you're investigating something and

you continue to ignore the parts that are inconvenient

to you, then you're really not investigating anymore. You're

just continuing to perpetuate your own biases. Sure. Oh,

yeah. And and then and that's that's such a thing that

happens, in this industry all the time.

Yes. Yeah. It it is true. And, you know, it's easy to understand

because people want to understand things and

kinda nail them down in their own Mike, And so they

read a couple of things, and they go, okay. I know. That's what this is.

Yes. I am one who believes this. And

then they start a Facebook page, and anybody who

disagrees with them is anathema and must be destroyed.

And Right. And and com or, like, banned from their

page and things like that. It I see that happen all the time.

Yeah. It's it's kind of just, you know, falling in love

with your own opinion and closing your mind to the fact

that there are other things going on, you know.

And, it's human nature, you know. I

can see that, but it's doesn't make for good investigation

because you never know what you're closing your mind to, and

maybe only a little bit of it's true. But if you close your mind to

the whole thing, you'll miss that little bit that might have enlightened your own

actual belief. That's absolutely right. And,

you know, oh, here's something I did wanna ask you. Did you ever

see the Beast of Bray Road movie? Yes.

Okay. And did you get a credit or any I mean, it first of

all, it had nothing to do with the story in No.

No. No. And and it was, I'll tell you. They they

took the title and just made,

kind of a grade b slasher movie that could

be subtitled 8 different ways that a wild

animal could tear apart a human being if it were supernatural.

And and it's you know, some people have enjoyed it. It it's got some

fun moments. It has it has some schlock value. Yeah. It has yeah.

Exactly. And, I had nothing to do with it. I

have you will you can search the credits up and down. You won't find,

anything there for me. I did not and do not receive any money

from it. And the, the Trail's publisher

had a lawyer that would have loved to have sued them, and she

looked at it very, closely. But she finally

concluded she couldn't because it bore so

little resemble it didn't bear enough resemblance to my Mike. You know, it's they just

took the title and ran with it. Right. And I think the I think the

movie was developed. I remember looking at the IMDB page because it came out, I

mean, 8, 9 years ago now. Okay. Yeah. And, and

only I mean, only a couple years after your book, but it seemed like the

guy that, had developed it, had wrote the script and

directed it, was someone from Waukesha. Yeah. I

think that there were some ties. Definitely. Like, he grew up in Waukesha and then

moved out to California and somebody gave him a few a few bucks,

just a few, to make a movie. Mhmm. Yeah. And then he thought,

like, well, let's let's use this let's use this story from from my youth. But

I think, yeah, it doesn't have any I just I was wondering what your

opinion of it was because you're very charitable, I believe,

when you're talking about the film, The Beast of Bray Road. Because when I saw

it, I thought it would have something to do with your book. Well, a lot

of people do, and so I guess in a way,

perhaps it has, helped sell some of my books. I I've

Sure. You know, I it's hard say hard telling. And then

if it does, people find out that it had nothing to do with the actual

events that occurred here in Elkhorn, Wisconsin. But,

I mean, people are always going to go and do what benefits themselves, and I

accept that, you know. And it's kind of the same way with,

people who investigate different

sorts of strange creatures, they have a tendency to say, well,

you know, I'm one that believes you should always carry firearms and,

try and shoot 1 if you can. And I'm one that which actually I don't

believe in shooting them, but but there are different techniques, you know.

One one will say, yeah, yeah. You have to go out and sit in the

woods all night or you're never gonna see 1. And another one will say, well,

no. That's not how we do it. We go and we leave a

candy bar on a log and we come back in the morning. You know? And

this is how that's how you do it. Another one will say, no. You gotta

spend, like, $10,000 on electronics and set

up this little sound stage in the woods with 8 trail cams, and

that's how you do it. I tend to think that there's room

for all these ways because nobody's really been successful.

Right. Nobody we don't have one of these, like, in a cage in a zoo

yet. Exactly. Exactly. Nobody really,

really knows for sure what they are. I mean, I can give you all my

best theories based on information that I've gotten over 23

years, but it doesn't mean that I know what they are or that I'm an

expert even. I just have a lot of accumulated information.

But I think there's room for all these, different types in

ways of seeking them and and seeking the information. And

since nobody knows, you might we might as well all keep trying all these

different ways and and who knows who's gonna turn up with,

maybe the smoking gun one of these days. One of these days. I hope. Well,

there's also, there's a Beast of Bray Road band here in Madison.

Oh, really? Yeah. They're called the Beast of Bray Road. I but I I think

the guitar player is originally from Milwaukee, and that's why they picked the name. But,

no. They they just played in town this last weekend, and I saw it. I

was Mike, that's that's perfect synergy. I'm about to talk to Linda. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, the in Whitewater, there's, a brew

pub called Second Salem, and they have a beast of Bray Road Ale.

Oh my god. I need to drink that now. I know it's I know it's

2:15 in the afternoon, but it's never it's not too early for a

paranormal beer. No. And it's called Second

Salem, and, they have really good food and, you

know, the Beast of Bray Road. I'm trying to get them to do a Bigfoot,

based beer, but they haven't listened to me yet.

But they're all kind of named for things like that. All their their different

brews, and and, it's it's really fun. And I'll put a link to that

place in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. People would get a big kick out of

it, I think. So, you know Go ahead. I was

just gonna say I the merchandising of things like that is

just gonna happen and, to fight it is

pointless. Might as well enjoy it. Right. Because it's fun. And, as

long as it's not dangerous and nobody's getting their intellectual property stolen, it

can be a lot of fun. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there are

things, I, from time to time, will find people are

using my personal my illustrations that I've made for my books,

on their Facebook headers or,

even I I found one recently where somebody had it on their header and they

had it built into a collage on one of their main pages. And

I kinda had to go, hey. That's my drawing. Right. It has

copyright on it. It has my signature right on the bottom of it. And they're

like, well, but that's what it looks like. And I had to say,

well, I'm sorry. That's not permitted for you to use it. You know, there's certain

places where you have to go and defend, but, you

can't copyright a title and you can't really copyright

just an idea, you know, as long as people execute it a

certain way. So there's always gonna be that. Well, I would I

would recommend, going to see the band,

buying the book, and stealing the movie. I think that's that's my

personal that's my personal belief, and I'll take the heat for whatever it takes.

Would you like to hear something else really weird? I would love it. My

first fantasy novel that is co published with

my agent and agency in New York, Disill and

God Godrich, is titled God

Johnson. And that was a name that just came

out of me came to me out of the blue, and I wrote this fantasy

novel. And I remember googling it and finding nothing. Well,

when it did finally come out, there's a Minneapolis

band called God Johnson. Oh, that's interesting.

Why? You know, how would somebody else pick that same name?

It's just really, really weird. And

and my my story is about, when

a a past a past era demigod who's still hanging

around, and he can't get anybody to follow him. So he

takes on the form of Abraham Lincoln so women will trust him.

I love it. And it's based in Madison Wisconsin

by the way. And, you and you can find it on my,

website, linda godfrey.com, if you don't mind a little shameless self promotion

there. We're all about shameless self promotion. We're happy to put links to your books

and everything. And, and, you know, speaking

of your last book was American

Monsters that came out last year. Yes. And, you know, we were

talking about, you know, you were saying Mike you wanted

the brew pub to have a Bigfoot beer and stuff like that.

So what do you think is the best Bigfoot

story you've ever heard or the most

believable one, let's say, where you're like, you know what? I think this person is

completely on that level. Wow.

There are so many. I mean, I've had my own

experiences, you know, where I know it's true because I was there.

But well, that's that's a good one too. We can go into a little bit

of your own personal Bigfoot experiences. So you've

seen or heard the big guy?

Yeah. I've actually in American Monsters, there's one chapter I

put in there because I got almost through with the book, and I'm

thinking, wow. All these people are volunteering to have their

stories, and I have this one. And I I felt dishonest

not putting it in the book. It is actually also, a shortened

version on my blog, lindagodfrey.com, if you just scroll back

to, July 2012, which is when it happened.

But I was walking just I didn't have a camera with me. I was

just out for a Sunday stroll, in this private area of the

Kettle Moraine where I go frequently and I generally feel pretty safe,

and I hadn't even thought of Bigfoot being there. Mhmm. And I just

took it in my head for some reason to try some tree knocks

because I saw and I didn't remember seeing

this before, there were, 3 saplings that had been

bent over into, like, a perfect rainbow and somehow fastened down at the

bottom. And I'll tell you, people walk around on the ridges between

the kettles, but generally, they do not go in these deep

kettles because they're brambly, they're full of wood ticks.

There's nothing down there that you'd want really. They're,

slippery. It's very fine,

very, short thin layer of of soil on

rock that was these were made by the glaciers and and they're kind of

oddly constructed. Okay. I thought, well, who would have done that?

And I knew it was supposed to be a signal, that Bigfoot

are supposed to make to one another. Nobody really knows what it

means. But I thought, well, just for fun, nobody's around. I'm just gonna bang

on a tree a couple of times like they do on Finding Bigfoot. And

I did that, and to my great shock and surprise,

something down there, after some major rustling

around in the brush, he, answered me with a couple

of knocks. And I thought, no. That can't be. And I

did it again, and it did it again, and this went

on three times, I think. And then there was more major

wrestling, and it was so I

could see big branches moving. And, you know, so I knew it

wasn't a squirrel or a raccoon or something like that. So so what

at what time did you become terrified? Well, I was

starting to. I'm already terrified for the first knock. I

was starting to become terrified, but I thought to Mike, it's either a

human or a Bigfoot because nothing else can grab a stick and make the

knocks, and I'm gonna see what it is. And I was on the ridge

that maybe about 10 feet in off the path

where I thought I can still get back out to the main path and probably

get out of here, you know, if if if I see something and and don't

want it. But, I hit my tree one

more Mike, and then in answer, instead of it hitting a

tree, it from somewhere about maybe 30,

40 feet up in the tree, this gigantic

limb, it wasn't a little branch. It would then this is a living oak

tree full of foliage, which is why I couldn't really see the creature

very well because he was behind all this foliage in in the tree,

took hold of this limb and wrenched it

in 2 twists. They each sounded like, you

know, a crack of lightning. And About how big was this tree limb

again? The well, the tree limb was 35 feet long and about

8 inches in diameter and way up on the

tree. And so it had to lean over and kind of

twist it off to sort of, you know, leverage it,

and it did that. It it twisted it off

about and and moved it laterally

horizontally until it was pointing at me. Yeah.

And that's a pretty big symbolic thing. And that under me so

much At that point, I was panicked, and I just hit the

tree because I didn't know what else to do. Maybe I was thinking in my

head, well, I'll just worn it off. Like, it'll know I'm really fierce if I

hit the tree again. Because it wasn't that far away. It could've gotten

me, I know, at that moment. But then

when I did that, there was a second big snapping sound and

it twisted the branch the rest of the way off the tree and dropped

it way down to the kettle floor, and that's when I ran.

I ran home, and I called someone I knew who lives

in the area, and she came and met me with her 20 year

old daughter who knew nothing about Bigfoot. She just wanted to go along with her

mom. Sure. And we went back down there, which was stupid

because it was still down there, but I didn't think it would be. So we

went down with tape measures and things, and that's when I and I measured the

branch, and then we saw 2 places on that branch where

the bark had been rubbed away and, generally, the shape of a

very large hand. And we found one of the pieces that fell

off. I still have it. And then this big

aroma was exuded from somewhere, and we smelled the

Bigfoot smell. Well, that and that's what everybody everybody says

Bigfoot stinks. Yeah. Yeah. And it can I'm

convinced they can emit these odors, and it was

skunkish. It was like musky grass with

a note of skunk is how I would describe it, and it

was That's disgusting. Yeah. It and it was

pungent. I mean, it was really strong. And

so, we walked back up out of the kettle and

we were on the ridge behind it because it was a shallower way to walk

back up from that tree. They they're not always perfectly symmetrical, these

these kettles. And we were just standing there on the ridge taking another look

around before we left, and her daughter screamed.

Natalie screamed, and by the time we turned around to see where

she was looking, it was gone. But, she had seen it walk

behind another big bunch of foliage kind of escaping the kettle

area. It was actually in the kettle on the other side of the ridge. So

she saw something Mike? She saw the the she saw the Bigfoot.

Oh. She saw it. She said it was bigger than a human. She

said it was not she said it was moving fast, but it

wasn't running. She said, I would call it striding, which she didn't know it, but

that's the perfect way to describe how they move. And she

described it as a light gray and that light

gray, light beige color, which

is sometimes known as the blonde Bigfoot, which she thought they were all, you

know, like dark brown or or, other colored.

So, you know, it was a a very,

unschooled and bigfootery witness that saw it, and yet she had

Wow. Description. Yeah. And so then that wasn't the end

of it. We're all we're standing there gawking, hoping it'll come back

out, and it growled at us. And it

sounded and and sound is hard to pinpoint in

those kettles because they're sort of like natural amphitheaters, but

we knew it was close. It was very close, and it was so deep, this

growl, that it had to be something very large making it. And I

just said, ladies, it's time we leave. And the hair was standing on

all of our necks, and, you know, we just kinda got out of there as

as best we could. So, but I think it followed me

home because for weeks, I would have, I'd be sitting in my

office late at night, and I would have little sticks and stones hitting

my office windows. And I've had other incidents, many other

incidents happen since then in the general area.

And, you know, that's, the sticks and stones things and

and the following home and the the the big you know, the sasquatch

throwing throwing stuff at people's windows. I kinda forgotten about

that part until I talked to a woman at the Milwaukee Paranormal Conference

this year. Mhmm. And, I mean, she was the I

mean, the most earnest sounding person I think I'd met there. But she was,

you know, just terrified of

these Bigfoot experiences she had in the upper peninsula.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she probably said something to you, Ada. But but when she

was talking about, like, it just throwing rocks and

sticks against the window, you know, after they thought it was miles away and

stuff just, you know, scared me. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And, actually,

I'm in a few weeks, I'm going up to the upper peninsula where a

couple Bigfoot have been sighted. So, yeah, I'm I'm

keeping that in Mike, but, it's happened that,

a rock was thrown at my husband on our deck from the

kettle that is next to my house. And, another

Mike, a few well, it would have been about 6 months ago, maybe

6, 7 months ago. I was walking on a cattle moraine trail with

a colleague and, he was shaking a tree

at the time to see just to see if we could, you know, interest

anything, and something pegged him in the head with a rock enough to give

him, a concussion. Oh, man. And it wasn't just, like,

bratty neighbors or something. Right? There was no one around. No. This

is a really little little used trail, not one

that's that's used very often by pedestrians, and there was nothing

around. And I was actually watching, very

closely, And a human would have had to have stood up in

order to hit him the way that it did. It would have had to have

a human would have had to stand up in a certain area and have a

really accurate overhand throw. And, I have

a good friend in Maine who has a lot of experience with,

habitating Bigfoots who told I told her that, and she

said, you know, they don't usually hit people. If it

actually hit him in the head, it meant to kill him.

Oh, well then. So yeah.

That that I mean, well, I'm looking at the

blog post right now. And so, we're gonna link to that

in the show notes where you guys will be able to see the pictures, read

Linda's story again, and she goes into pretty good

detail about her Bigfoot adventure in

what she saw in July in 2012. So we'll make sure that will go in

the show notes so nobody misses it. And, that's a that's a

great story, Linda. And I know I've got you for just a couple Mike minutes.

So I would be remiss if I did not talk

to, Wisconsin's

most notorious strange animal chronicler

and not discuss the Milwaukee lion.

Oh, yeah. Because I mean, that is it's still in the

news. It was really hot, last week. I was in the Milwaukee area

last week in the recording studio, and, we're in Menomonee

Falls actually, and then I saw that on Saturday or

Friday, there was a there was a report, a sighting in Menomonee Falls

of the Milwaukee Lion. Right. Now what are your

I mean, this when you talk about the media taking off, at first, it's the

doldrums of summer. Right. Right. It's an so it's an

absolute news vacuum out there, and they're looking for something

interesting. And, you know, speaking of the media, what

what do you think about the lion? Well, I mean, they've got video,

and you can see looking at that video, I'm not

sure whether it is somebody's escape pet or a mountain

lion, but either one is completely possible.

There's a much bigger market for,

wild animal trafficking than people would think. I've had,

sheriff's deputies tell me they stopped somebody on the interstate for speeding, and they

had 3 cougar cubs in their back seat, you know, that they were

taking somewhere. So it would not surprise me if it were someone's pet, but I

also know that there are lots more

mountain lions or cougars, whichever you wanna call them, coming through

Wisconsin and maybe perhaps even living here. I had

a report, in Walworth County of 2

mountain lions menacing somebody's,

farm animals. And these are people that I know really

well. It's like a 3 generation farm, you know, and, the

granddaughter saw it and the grandmother told me about it. They're not making that

up, and they know what these things are. My husband was

almost was stalked and almost attacked

in my own backyard 2 years ago in October. Hold on a

sec. Wait. It's My my You have the most I mean, the

catamaran, I mean, I guess I've I've I do. Jog

I've done jogs through it and stuff like that. My my father ran

there for years. He did the 50 mile ice age trail. Mhmm. And

now you're making it sound like this is the worst part of town. Like, oh,

yeah. The inner city Milwaukee is fine. It's the Kettle Moraine you gotta worry about

because of the beasts. Well, there are these things, you know, and Mike I

said, we are right on the edge of the kettlemerene, and he,

being a farm boy who was raised to, you know, go raccoon

hunting in the cornfields without a flashlight

is sort of fearless. And he walked all the way back to our the very

back of our yard by the woods one night without a flashlight.

And this thing growled and jumped right in front of him, and he had

to walk backwards all the way up our backyard, which is considerable,

to the deck of our house, kicking at it, waving his arms, and yelling

while it's growling and pacing him up from a few feet

away, and it finally just ran into the woods when he got to the

deck. You know, I guess that was too too civilized for it, but he saw

it the next morning, on a different part of the street, and

2 separate neighbors saw it without knowing about it.

So there were, you know, a total of of, 3 three different

daytime sightings beside his being attacked. We've also

had DNA evidence that that one that was shot in Chicago some years ago

Mhmm. Came right through, near where I live. We

we've had it seen now in Beloit. Did you hear about that? There are

actual yeah. It's just been it was seen by a park ranger in a

Beloit park. And I do actually have a I'm I'm writing some

pieces for my blog on this because it's something I've been meaning to get to

for a long Mike, and the, the main story that's on the blog

right now, if you you go to lindagodfrey.com it'll bring up

this story, which tells about some related things, but

I've got a huge amount of evidence and files

of mountain lions living around, Central

Wisconsin, especially around, duh, Wildcat Mountain.

Right. Hillsborough in that

central kind of north central area of the state,

And, I'm getting around to writing part 2, which is gonna be a lot more

involved and show a lot of news clippings. But,

they're not an unusual animal to be in the state. They're

not cryptids. They're they're very real and,

you know, I I would

Mike know,

it's rare for them to kill humans but not to kill pets. They did find

that one mold and shredded house cat in Milwaukee as it was.

Oh, yeah. That's right. That they related to it. Yeah. And,

they're very opportunistic and they're probably very hungry

if they're not in their normal hunting grounds or they don't have a pet owner

feeding them. You know, they're probably looking for something. Well, we had a good laugh

about it when they were, like, giving they're pulling Chicken McNuggets and stuff like that

in the live traps. Yeah. That's like Bobo leaving his, you

know, mounds bars on the, or a $1,000 bars on

the the trunk up, you know, baiting baiting Bigfoot. Right. But but you never

know what those things like. No. That that's true. And,

just looking at that blog post, you know, the mountain Mike in Waukesha,

you know, 10 years ago, and that, you know, that it's not it's not that

weird. And when you see the video now I admit I was not a

Milwaukee Lion believer. And so in the last podcast, you know, I

was making fun of it and stuff and Mike that. Just, you know, everybody's bored.

But then the video came out. Mhmm. And, I mean,

that video looks like there's a mountain lion walking around Milwaukee. Well,

professional animal experts have said so. They've all

said this is some type of lion, you know, may maybe a female

African or a cougar. It's it's a little blurry, so you can't tell for

sure. But, you know, you can certainly tell it's not a

house cat or a bobcat or anything like that. It's a lion of some kind.

And and Mike you said, there there aren't any laws right now

for I mean, you can keep a mountain lion as a pet, can't you?

You you know, I don't understand the laws completely, but what I do understand

is that Wisconsin's very loose on their exotic animal

laws. So yeah. And and that just made

me think Mike, well, either somebody got it as a pet or maybe it just

got no. It was just a really curious cat. Yeah.

It it's hard telling. You know? It it very well could have escaped from someone's

basement, and they just don't want to admit that it's theirs.

But it could be something, you know, from the wild. And

I know one of the witnesses I saw on TV claimed that she saw 2

of them together. And I Great. They're it's been

producing. I haven't seen anything made of it. But, if

you remember the person that reported to me that they'd seen them by their

farm also saw 2 of them and or I don't know if I even mentioned

that, but there were 2. Yes. That one. And when you've got 2,

then you can't say, well, this was a lone male looking for a mate and

just moving on anymore. Mhmm. You've got a potential breeding pair.

And, I mean, that would be obviously terrifying in Milwaukee.

So, but the but the, even though, like,

on Friday Saturday, the, you know, the the authorities were saying, like,

well, we think the line has moved on. I mean, first of all, now we

don't know where it is. Mhmm. So it could be anywhere. And if it's heading

north, that might be good because it might be heading for a less populated area.

But it went south. They they said that it well, they said it escaped the

perimeter, and we believe it's heading north, which would have put it

into the cattle moraine northern unit or that Holy Hill area,

and nobody ever would have found it. But instead, it shows up at

Glendale. Oh, that's right. Because, because Allison, who lives in

wrote that. Yeah. That it was getting close to her, her area. I

have a, a, Facebook

group called unknown creature spot, and she posted that on

there. And by the way, anyone's welcome to join it. Just,

send me a note and and, or friend me, and I'll and I'll add you

in. And, that's and and so if it's

heading south, I mean, that just heads to more and more populated areas. So, hopefully

the the Milwaukee line will be scooped up. It'll go for those chicken

McNuggets, and then we don't have to worry about it anymore.

And then, hopefully, it'll be safe. Hopefully. Yes. On

all on all sides. Well and it may just you know, there may be a

corridor that's sort of established that takes it right

down the, Lake Michigan corridor right down to

Chicago, and that's how that other remember that the one that got shot down there

got through somehow. And so maybe whatever attracted

that first one to go that way, it might be more of a regular route

than people realize because if it had if it had itself,

it's, you know, aimed in that direction. It can show up in

Chicago. And if it gets to Chicago, then it's their problem. Exactly.

And it was supposed to be near near the airport. I read that too. So

maybe it's gonna hop a cargo plane and And sneak over. Sneak

over. Well, Linda, thank you so much for joining us today. It's

been a real pleasure talking to you and, like, just picking your brain

and and and and enjoying hearing these stories from Bray Road

and and the different theories and things like that. So I just wanted

to thank you. And and when people wanna find you on the Internet, where do

they go? Just go to linda godfrey.com

and then you can find links to, my Twitter

page. I I normally post quite a bit on Twitter. I've fallen down

because I had that book due the last week or so, but I'm on Twitter

a lot. I have, 2 different Facebook pages. There's

Linda Godfrey and Linda S. Godfrey, which

have slightly different things on them. Okay. And then

and I think lindagodfrey.com about 8 times, which is, there's

no w w. It's, my blog, and then you'll find a page with

books and bio. You'll find the Guy Johnson page and frequently

asked questions. If you are just learning about these

pictures for the first time, that's on there. And those things will get

you anywhere you wanna go. Fantastic. And we'll have those links in the show notes

too. And, Wendy, we're working on a, a

Midwest crypto zoology round table sometime in September, so I'm

sure we'll be in touch again soon. Fun. That would be a great deal of

fun. Thank you so much for having me. You bet. I hope you have a

great week. You too. Bye. Bye bye.

Well, I found her very pleasant. Indeed. Very pleasant. I like that.

And, no attitude or anything and she's been on a ton of

big shows and she's still not afraid to do our little show. That's great.

That's cool. Thank you, Linda. That's cool. So, Linda, the the

title of your last book inspired the song for this

week and here it is, American

Monsters.

Not to wait. The outrage of a beast with

a million heads.

These American monsters will

what you say.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side.

I owe you a beer.