Puppy mills are facilities in which dogs suffer in mass to produce puppies for sale. If you purchase a puppy from a pet store, there is a risk that it is coming from a puppy mill.

But what are puppy mills? Who regulates them? How can consumers protect themselves?

Shalimar Oliver, Animal Crimes Manager from the Humane Society of the United States, joins us again to discuss these and other questions regarding this form of "legalized cruelty".

Puppy mills only exist to make money, so it is within our power as consumers to shut them down by stopping demand. Learn more about puppy mills and how the HSUS Puppy Mills campaign is working to help these dogs and protect the community in this episode.

If you find this episode helpful and educational, help us spread the word by rating, liking and sharing with your friends and family. Together we make a difference for animals.

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Hi and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

2

This is your host Dr.

3

G and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

4

Today we have a repeat guest

from the Humane Society of the

5

United States, Shalimar Oliver.

6

Welcome back, Shal.

7

So happy to have you here.

8

Shalimar Oliver: Yep,

good to see you as always.

9

DrG: So you don't need a ton of

introduction because you were here

10

before and you gave us the rundown on

everything about you, but you want to give

11

people just an idea of what your job is

12

currently at HSUS.

13

Shalimar Oliver: Yes.

14

Um, I'm one of our animal crimes

managers for the rescue team with HSUS.

15

And so in our roles and functions, we

work directly with different enforcement

16

officials, the local state federal levels,

um, basically to help them with their

17

animal crimes cases and kind of just.

18

Ashton, how we can help them

either provide some resources, any

19

consultation or case guidance all

the way up to like those full scale

20

deployments that you yourself have

been a part of with us at times.

21

So, uh, any way that we can help support

the work they're doing with animals.

22

So,

23

DrG: and that's what we kind

of talked about last time was

24

about the large scale cases.

25

And this topic kind of somewhat goes

along with that because we're going

26

to be talking about puppy mills.

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Which I hate puppy mills and we're going

to go into all the reasons why, why I hate

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puppy mills and why they should not exist.

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But I think that, you know,

we're here to educate people.

30

So, and I don't think that, that

most, most members of the community

31

have a good understanding about

what a puppy mill actually is.

32

So do you want to tell

people what is a puppy mill?

33

Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, so, I mean, the

puppy mode, there's no finite definition,

34

like, there's nothing that you could

look up, you know, specifically in a

35

dictionary, but what we kind of describe

them as are these large scale breeding

36

operations where basically you think

of it's these You know, quantity versus

37

quality of the dog where the focus is

kind of on supplying and demand, and

38

it's more of a business for profit.

39

And so in these conditions, you see

the quantity exceed the quality.

40

So therefore, in producing, pumping

out all these puppies will all

41

of these breeder dogs, you see

the conditions and the welfare

42

conditions of the dogs just decline.

43

So, um, not just environmental

issues, but health issues as well.

44

And so, you know, it

can be based anywhere.

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There's people that have this

kind of assumption of, you know.

46

Location wise, what it should look

like geographically where they should

47

be, but at the end of the day, it

could be, you know, in a basement.

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It could be on a farm.

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It could be in a warehouse situation.

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So there's no real, um, you know,

location that specifically that

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these operations can be set up.

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DrG: And people, you know, we think about

also the term as far as backyard breeders,

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and there's a little bit of a difference

between backyard breeders and puppy mills.

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So what would those differences be?

55

Shalimar Oliver: They can fall under

like that same category, right?

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Because they're they're all breeding.

57

Um, but, you know, with the backyard

breeding operation population wise,

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certainly, you might see something

smaller, um, but you're going to

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see, like, more of a disregard.

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You can also these are some of the

dogs or breeds rather that we see

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flooding our local shelters and, um.

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That in itself too, uh, as a back, as

backyard breeders, they're out to make

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kind of the quick buck, uh, versus your

larger scale operations that they're

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dealing with a lot more money at hand too.

65

Um, but yeah, the conditions, the

breeds, um, they can still, again, fall

66

under the umbrella of this breeding

operation, but the, uh, there's a lot

67

more kind of disregard and, uh, it

is a little bit of, can be a smaller

68

scale situation, so it depends.

69

DrG: So at a federal level, the Animal

Welfare Act determines the conditions

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in which these high volume breeders

are supposed to have these animals

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because they're considered agriculture.

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Um, so can you talk about like

the regulation of these puppy

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mills, uh, through the government?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, I mean,

the AWA, these, it's basic, right?

75

It's, you know, bare

minimum standards of care.

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And when we say bare,

it's, it's, you know.

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Uh, just bones.

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There's a lot more that could be

built off those guidelines, but,

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you know, uh, we've got something,

something's better than nothing.

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And so the a w a with those guidelines,

um, federally speaking, this is a

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regulation through the U ss d A.

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So if somebody is breeding, let's say I'm

a dog breeder, um, there's requirements

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that I have to meet in order to be

required to have a federal license.

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So I have to have more than five

breeding females that I'm using

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and sell sight unseen, sell pet

stores and things like that.

86

So then the USDA says, well,

you need a federal license.

87

Um, but, you know, again, that in

itself isn't a lot and, you know,

88

you have your, you have to meet the

inspection requirements when they

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come out to inspect the facility.

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Uh, but we know, you know, unfortunately,

it's not happening as often as we'd like.

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We know that resources are also thin.

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Um.

93

And so the inspections aren't

happening as often as they should.

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And then if there's violations, how

are they being noted and documented?

95

And are they being reported

to law enforcement?

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Unfortunately, not often, not

as often as they should be.

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And so it's oversight.

98

We're glad there's a layer of

oversight and regulation, but

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is it, you know, Adequate?

100

Not yet, not yet, but it's something.

101

Um, and so that's the, the federal

layer through the USDA, um, if

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I have to get that license, so.

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DrG: Yeah, one of the issues that I

have seen with that is, uh, for, for

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example, there was a, There was a breeder

that was cited by the USDA because they

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had a dog that was very, very sick.

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So they told them that they

needed to remove that dog

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from their breeding operation.

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So all they did was they got rid of

the dog and they gave it to a rescue.

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And then the dog eventually

died because it was so sick.

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But then as far as the USDA, when they

come back, the dog has been removed.

111

So in theory.

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They are complying with the

requirements, but it's not a, it's not

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a good deal for, for these animals.

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Um, the other issue that I see as a

veterinarian is that these operations do

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not need to be evaluated too frequently.

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Like some of them are

only about once a year.

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Is that right?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yeah.

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It's usually an annual inspection.

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And then after that,

sometimes it can only be.

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It's supposed to be annually, but then

what we've seen in history with records

122

is sometimes it goes longer than that

and might actually wait until there

123

is a complaint filed with the USDA

and that gets them back out there.

124

So, it's not as often as it should be,

but even once a year, you know, you have

125

to think about what that looks like.

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That is, you know, one sliver of a

moment in time for all of those dogs.

127

And, uh, especially when you're talking

about like an announced inspection.

128

You're giving them this heads up

to hide things, you know, granted

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great that makes them kind of, uh,

you know, it hits them in the tail

130

end to hurry up and clean things up.

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But then what's what's disappearing and

what's being hidden, given away, you know,

132

who knows, and that's that's kind of the

terrifying thing like you just said with

133

that example of where did that dog go?

134

Um, where do these sick puppies go

that you see a follow up inspection.

135

And problem solved because they

complied and the animals are gone,

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but where some situations they

are required to keep records like

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sales records and things like that.

138

But, you know, there's

again, a real oversight.

139

It might get documented.

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Is there kind of any punishment

reprimand consequence?

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DrG: And are these, are these

inspections available to people that

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want to look into them to the public?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yes, yes.

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Thankfully, one big bonus is

that there is a search tool

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online for anybody to access.

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So you can go onto the USDA's

website and look up under their

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search tool and basically get a hold

of any of the inspection reports.

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You can just type in, it'll, you

know, lead you to the section

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that you can put in the state.

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Um, the city, if you have the name

of the kennel or the person, it's

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an easy search function, but it'll

pull up their inspection reports.

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So you can freely see it's actually,

you know, anyone has access to it.

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Um, and you know, we even obviously

access it too, when we're looking

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at somebody, because a lot of the

times there's things that are noted.

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And no one else has ever been advised

of those issues and those violations,

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so, um, it can be quite terrifying when

you see repeated violations, uh, from

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multiple inspections, uh, spanning over

years of time, what's been done about it?

158

You're documenting it, but you're

not doing anything about it.

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DrG: Now, you guys do have

a way of documenting, right?

160

You keep track of, like, the, the

hundred worst ones every year.

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So, do you want to tell

people about that report?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, so we, um, HSUS,

we have an incredible team that I've

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worked with, uh, frequently over the

last few years that I've been here.

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We have a Stop Puppy Mills team and

they work on policy, legislation around

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these issues, but we have the fantastic

creators of our Horrible 100 Report.

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And so this is an annual report

that's obviously put out each year

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that essentially is documenting,

it's not the 100 worst in the

168

country because we don't know.

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We don't know all of the puppy mills

in this country, but we're going to go

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off of out of the records that we have

access to what are the hundred worst,

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you know, breeding operations that we

have read through and state inspection

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reports, federal inspection reports,

uh, law enforcement reports, other

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information that we've had access to,

and the creators of that report have,

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you know, um, designed this Document to

showcase these horrific breeders that are

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out there to alert the public consumers.

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Anybody that wants to read it to

say, here's all this information

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that's being withheld from you.

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We put it all in this.

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You know, easy to read report that

you can have access to as well.

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And it's, you're blown up over the last 10

years, since it's, um, you know, origin,

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I think, just over 10 years ago, but.

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Um, it's incredible information

to put out there to the public to

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let them know, um, you know, what,

what they're not being told about.

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DrG: And we always think about it

as puppy mills, but does the report

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include just dog operations or does

it include other species as well?

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Shalimar Oliver: If there are

cat breeders in there, it could

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include them too, certainly.

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Um, but for the majority, we're talking

about dog breeders and, um, but yes, it

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can definitely also include if people are

breeding cats as well and kittens, so.

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Um, but yes, so

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DrG: in my opinion, um, I, I think of

puppy mills as exploiter hoarders, right?

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Because they, they somewhat

meet the same requirements.

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An exploiter hoarder is somebody that

does not care about the, the status

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or the wellbeing of the animal.

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And it's just keeping them

because they are getting some kind

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of reward, either their money or

emotional or however it would be.

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And that's kind of how puppy mills are.

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Uh, what are what are going to be the

most common problems that you see in

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these facilities when you go in there?

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Shalimar Oliver: Okay, long answer.

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Um, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, so a lot of these facilities,

if you go off of a lot of the

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inspection reports that we review

as well, whether they be state or

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federal, there's always a commonality.

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So you can see issues varying from housing

and structural issues, um, sanitation, uh,

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especially medical issues, where they've

outlined specific dogs at the facilities

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that, you know, This one has an eye issue.

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This one is limping.

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This one has blood coming from somewhere.

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Um, so a lot of failure to

provide some type of vet care.

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Uh, no documentation,

history, records on the dogs.

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Where are they coming from?

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Where are they going?

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How long have they been here?

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Um, and so we see, you know, besides the

medical, the housing structural, I'm just

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trying to think of Um, the documentation,

sanitation, uh, every time without fail.

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And so it's, it's, uh, the majority of

the reports that we review have these

219

issues in them, but it's, you know,

up to the inspector or that agency to

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then advise a local law enforcement

agency, Hey, we were out doing our

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portion and noted ABC violations for us.

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We want to alert you guys because

obviously then can fall under a cruelty

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statute, you know, a state, uh, a

state law that law enforcement is

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required to enforce and investigate.

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DrG: About how often would you

say that, that investigators do

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report these as animal crimes?

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Shalimar Oliver: Sadly, hardly ever,

if at all, and, you know, by the time

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sometimes we've, we've also seen these

cruelty investigations come to fruition,

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but law enforcement sadly has been,

you know, put in a negative light of

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why didn't you do anything sooner?

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Sometimes they had no idea.

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And if you look at, you know, I feel for

certain law enforcement agencies, you've

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got police departments, sheriff's offices,

and they're never trained on animal

234

crimes cases, then a big one lands into

their lap, and then they're scrutinized.

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Why?

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Who?

237

You know, you didn't do it right.

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And you know, gosh, at least they

did it in the end, but they had

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either little to no knowledge ahead

of time, no training on how to do

240

the investigations more thoroughly.

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Um, so a lot of these inspectors

just aren't passing that information

242

over to them and doing their due

diligence of, Hey, this isn't right.

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You as the enforcement agency,

can you look into this?

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And again, we're big fans of

networking and working together,

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work together as different agencies.

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Um, HSUS has highlighted that a lot

in the cases we've been doing over the

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last few years with all the different

multiple agencies that have collaborated

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and come together to create an even

better outcome if one were to have

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just tried to do it by themselves.

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So, um, yeah, sadly these inspectors

just aren't passing that information

251

over as much as they should be.

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DrG: So you were just talking about,

like, as far as the communication,

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not knowing where they came

from or where they're going.

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So where are most of these

dogs going from puppy mills?

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Shalimar Oliver: Well, besides the

ones that are disappearing, um, you

256

know, we're seeing them either they,

sure, they can be sold sight unseen if

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they're shipping them out to a consumer.

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Uh, otherwise we can see them

being purchased to other brokers.

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So other breeders that are kind of

middlemen funneling them back and forth.

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Uh, but a lot of the times too, we're

seeing them sold straightly to all

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these pet stores that are out there.

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DrG: Broker is actually a term that

a lot of people don't understand.

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Most people think that they are

actually where the animals come from.

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So what are brokers and how, how

do they play into this whole thing?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yeah.

266

So brokers are kind of, they can

either be, so if I was a broker,

267

first off, I'd be required to get

a specific license from the USDA.

268

Um, but if I was a broker, it would mean

that I can come to you as a breeder.

269

Buy some of your dogs and then I'm

going to go to this other breeder

270

and sell the dogs to them or pet

store, sell the dogs to them.

271

So that middleman kind of with that

transaction, um, when you see these

272

pet stores and you see a van pull

up with 50 puppies inside guarantee

273

that's probably the broker that's

dropping them off or the transporter

274

for the broker, however that works.

275

But your broker is your middleman dealer.

276

If you will, they themselves.

277

So I can also still be a breeder

as well and breed my own dogs,

278

but I'm also going to do the to

and from back and forth middleman

279

kind of thing as a broker as well.

280

If that makes sense.

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DrG: And the whole online

shipping of animals.

282

I mean, like, I don't understand

how people fall for that.

283

What are, what are kind of some of

the issues that you see as far as when

284

people are purchasing these animals

online and just getting them shipped?

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Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, I mean, it's not

Amazon Prime, you know, it's, it's, you

286

have a sentient being that you are having

to transport and, and, And especially when

287

you're talking about putting it in a crate

on a plane, unsupervised, not monitored,

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um, it's, I, I think it's terrifying.

289

And we've seen those transactions fail.

290

We've been contacted by consumers who

got a sick puppy, who didn't get a puppy

291

and they were scammed out of their money.

292

Um, and so the concern definitely is

going to be, you know, the health.

293

This poor little thing has got to go, it's

already immunocompromised from wherever

294

else it came from and now you're going

to put it through the stress and trauma

295

of having to travel, you don't know what

it's exposed to, when does it get any kind

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of food or water, um, not to mention any

poor sanitation issues with being in that

297

crate, you know, urinating and defecating

and having to exist in that until it gets

298

to its final destination, heaven forbid if

there's A type of layover and the puppy,

299

we've seen them get stuck in warehouses

that nobody's come to pick them up.

300

Um, and then we, we had one

case there's in Illinois and

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they died inside the crates.

302

So, you know, and there's all,

there's so much room for error

303

and for something to go wrong.

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Um, I hate to say it.

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It's one of those things, like

we wouldn't do this with kids.

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We're doing this with animals.

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You know, it doesn't, doesn't make sense.

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DrG: We had a, a client, uh,

at the hospital where I was

309

working at that she got a puppy.

310

I don't remember what kind of a dog

it was, but she got this puppy from

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Texas and she purchased it online

and allegedly it was registered

312

and it had all these things.

313

And as soon as the dog landed, as soon

as she received it, she noticed that

314

the dog was not feeling well and she

took it straight from when she picked

315

it up to the hospital and it had parvo.

316

And this poor little dog went straight

from the flight from Texas straight

317

into an isolation ward for about a week.

318

And this lady had all the expense

of purchasing and then all the

319

expense of the parvo treatment.

320

Of course, the people that sold

her the dog ghosted her because

321

they're not responsible anymore.

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So it was just a disaster all around.

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And, you know, she

didn't do it maliciously.

324

She truly didn't know.

325

And that's kind of one of the

things that we want to do with

326

this, educate people about.

327

Why it's not okay to do that, right?

328

Like you don't know what you're getting.

329

And it's really easy to

scam somebody in the mail.

330

Shalimar Oliver: Oh yeah.

331

And, and no, consumers like, you

don't know what you don't know.

332

Right.

333

And so we see so many well intentioned

people that, uh, don't know any better.

334

Or, you know, really thought they

had done enough research and hadn't.

335

Um, so no, it's no fault.

336

It's, it is more about why we want

to have these kind of conversations

337

to generate the awareness and bring

it to people's full attention.

338

Um, we're starting to see billboards

pop up around the country, talking to

339

people about buying a puppy online,

buying a puppy from a breeder.

340

Um, and so no, it's, it's no, you

know, no fault of their own, but it's

341

gosh, with the, the struggles and the

strife that they go through buying

342

that puppy, let alone what the puppy

itself goes through, it's traumatic.

343

Um, we've dealt with families that

pumped thousands of dollars into, you

344

know, vet costs after they've purchased

a sick puppy and only for it to die.

345

That, you know, how many parents I've

talked to that have purchased a Christmas

346

puppy, and that went, you know, belly up.

347

It's.

348

awful to think of the trauma

they have to go through.

349

Those aren't memories that

families want for Christmas.

350

Those aren't memories that kids want

growing up with their first dog.

351

Um, it's horrible.

352

I feel for them.

353

So what are

354

DrG: going to be the worst

states for puppy mills?

355

Shalimar Oliver: I mean, typically

it kind of stays around the same, you

356

know, um, locality in the, on the, in

the country, if you will, but we see,

357

you know, Midwest ish area, um, Ohio.

358

DrG: Go Bucks!

359

We are horrible about puppy

360

Shalimar Oliver: mills.

361

I mean, you guys are doing, there's a lot,

I think it was like over 300, um, Class

362

A breeders that you had, well over 300,

like 350 something, but, uh, Missouri.

363

Beat everybody with over 800 licensed,

um, class A breeding facilities.

364

So, um, but yes, uh, Kansas, Oklahoma.

365

Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, uh, Oklahoma, PA.

366

I think Wisconsin was on the list too

for like, when you're looking at the

367

top 10, um, USDA licensed breeders.

368

So let me be clear on that too.

369

We, when we talk about it, we want to

make sure it's from information that

370

we've seen, we've reviewed to, to confirm.

371

So, um, each year HSUS, uh, our stop

puppy mills team puts out a map.

372

That's accessible to people

online on the top 10 worst States.

373

And so, uh, good old Ohio was

up there, but not with 800, like

374

Missouri, but you guys had over 300.

375

So it's still a lot.

376

And even the, uh, it puts, uh,

the broker licenses in as well.

377

So we do the class B category.

378

I think you guys were like under 50,

but that's still a decent amount.

379

Um, 40 something, if I'm not mistaken.

380

So a lot of those brokers, and again,

this is just the people we know about.

381

There's so many that are, there's

no oversight, no regulation, no

382

license requirement, law enforcement

doesn't see them, they're completely

383

unseen by the public, so again,

it's just the ones that we know.

384

And what's really

385

DrG: sad is that some of these people

are not like just one time violations

386

that lands them on these lists, right?

387

Like some of them are year after

year after year, yet they're still

388

allowed to keep their license.

389

Shalimar Oliver: Exactly.

390

We have frequent flyers.

391

Isn't that sad that repeat offenders year

after year of the Horrible 100 report,

392

they're back in it again because from

our research and all the great work

393

that that team's done, they see the same

person, the same kennel in there once

394

again with repeated documented violations

that have, you know, what's being done

395

after that, that That's been documented.

396

Nothing.

397

So, um, yeah, it is sad to see, but we

do have those each year, unfortunately.

398

DrG: And speaking of Ohio, we are kind of

the home of one of the biggest pet stores

399

that sells animals, so no very proud

to say that we are the home of Petland.

400

Um, and I did help you guys with a

case a long time ago because some of

401

the issues with these puppies being

sold sick is not just the problem of

402

health problems for the animals, but

also health problems for people, right?

403

Right.

404

Shalimar Oliver: Yes, that

strikes, uh, yeah, as somebody

405

who's contracted Campylobacter.

406

Yeah, yeah.

407

Yes, that is no fun.

408

No, it's not.

409

DrG: Yeah, so, uh, and, and that video

is available on the Puppy Mills campaign,

410

but there was a purchase of a puppy.

411

I think it was in Kentucky

that the puppy was purchased.

412

Shalimar Oliver: There's a Texas video

413

DrG: too.

414

Yeah, so I think the one that I saw the

puppy that I examined from that video

415

was the puppy from Kentucky and it came

in and and one of the one of the things

416

and it's not necessarily the fault of

the employees because I don't think that

417

they really know they're not educated.

418

properly.

419

And they were telling the purchaser,

no, there's like less than 1 percent

420

chance that this dog is going to have

campylobacter or any problems like that.

421

And the puppy came straight from

there to me to get examined.

422

It was in, in relatively poor condition.

423

It was really thin.

424

It was a doodle.

425

So all this fluff hair, it made

it look like it was healthy, but

426

it was really, really skinny.

427

And just water diarrhea coming out

of it, um, and we examined it and it

428

had Campylobacter and it took about

six months to get that dog clear to

429

where it was having normal stool.

430

And thankfully it ended up in a really

good home that, that took him and

431

they're, they're doing great with him.

432

But you know, all the people that

potentially would get exposed from

433

these animals and just the zoonosis,

, the, Antibiotic resistance that this

434

is causing because a lot of these

campylobacters are not like, we

435

can't

436

Shalimar Oliver: treat them.

437

No, there's so there's the potential for

so much zoonotic diseases with, um, you

438

know, for folks that don't know where the

disease passes jumps the species barrier

439

so that we can contract it from them.

440

And, you know, I think.

441

I tell a lot of people too, thanks to

COVID, if you will, it really brought to

442

light for people to pay more attention

about zoonotic diseases that they're out

443

there and look how bad they can become.

444

And so it really helps

when I'm working with.

445

Different law enforcement officials,

and sometimes they'll hit a wall and

446

they have a great case, um, but maybe

they're not getting as much cooperation.

447

Uh, it's not able to go up

the chain for whatever reason.

448

Uh, one thing I bring to, to, to light

to them is, hey, have you talked to your

449

public health officials about the case?

450

Because you've got, you know,

Giardia, coccidia, potential for

451

campylobacter, even ringworm.

452

You know, all these things that

we can catch from these guys, um,

453

it really gets their attention.

454

And yeah, they're not happy

about introducing more disease

455

into the human population.

456

So we've seen public health officials

in a jurisdiction kind of gain interest

457

and jump on it with law enforcement to

work together because they had no idea.

458

And it could be newer to them as well.

459

They're looking for and tracking

for other human illnesses.

460

Now you're bringing in these

zoonotic diseases and illnesses.

461

So it's really getting the

attention, uh, and not just like

462

local public health officials.

463

There was the, the 2 CDC investigations

that came out of the Campbell back to,

464

uh, from Petland stores, the 2016 and

465

confirmed, you know, over 100 people

were infected and they traced it.

466

I believe it was from Florida where

the puppy ended up at a store and

467

they trace it back to the Ohio, I

think it was breeder, I'm sorry.

468

Um, and then in 2019 or 2020, I

think they came on their radar again.

469

And they went back and did

another, another study.

470

I don't recall all the numbers

from it, but you get the interest

471

of the CDC and this stuff.

472

Um, you know, they're not

messing around anymore.

473

So, um, it's interesting to see that

it's gained all their attention.

474

It's, it's a great thing to see, but

then it's also scary knowing this

475

is all out there and that yes, any

one of us can contract these, uh,

476

illnesses, some antibiotic resistant.

477

Uh, one of my co workers contracted the

antibiotic resistant strain, I believe.

478

And so, you know, it's, uh, it's

not something we want out there.

479

It's something we need to kind of

put a cap on as soon as possible.

480

So.

481

Yeah, it's no joke.

482

DrG: And as you had said, like, people

that buy these puppies for Christmas

483

presents because of their kids and

everything else, like, we're putting

484

all these children in, in danger,

and people that have elderly or

485

immunosuppressed people in their home,

because another Another misconception

486

is some people say, well, I don't

want to go to a shelter because I

487

don't know where this dog came from.

488

Or I know that shelters have diseases

or whatever behavioral problems.

489

And they go and purchase a dog from

a pet store because they think they

490

know where it came from, or they think

they know that they are healthy and

491

that couldn't be further from the

492

Shalimar Oliver: truth.

493

Right.

494

Yeah, no, it's, it's

the whole health issue.

495

I mean, at the end of the day, if it's

an adult dog you're adopting, there's

496

going to be history that you don't know.

497

But, you know, if you want an adult

dog, then you buy a retired breeder dog.

498

That's what lived in

a cage its whole life.

499

Never been on a leash, seen

sunshine, touched grass.

500

You're going to have a lot more

behavior issues to, um, there's

501

research done by Frank McMillan, uh,

on the behavior of puppy mill dogs too.

502

There's several papers that

he's written that, that, uh, are

503

fascinating that people want to

take a read, but yeah, socially,

504

you know, these dogs are incapable.

505

Um, the puppies, even, even though

they're newer at life, still come

506

traumatized because of everything

they've seen in those few weeks.

507

And so there's just, there's no guarantee,

there's no guarantee, unless you get into

508

your responsible breeders, breeding, uh,

with, with, that have You know, they're

509

breeding for good behavior and medical,

and they have that genetic testing.

510

They have that paperwork, legitimate

paperwork, available for, for a buyer.

511

DrG: But also, we're not going to

find the, what we consider responsible

512

breeders, which would be people

that have a veterinarian, that get

513

the animals examined, that do Every

test imaginable to make sure that

514

they are bettering the, the breed.

515

They're not just continuing

on diseases and stuff.

516

These are also people that don't have

a hundred breeding animals, right?

517

They usually have like two or three.

518

Yeah, they're going to be

519

Shalimar Oliver: more specific.

520

You know, they have that passion

of whatever specific breed

521

that they're interested in.

522

Um, you know, like the Rottweiler

and, um, they're not one of those.

523

I always, it's bad.

524

Uh, way that I paint the picture in

my head, but it's like, you know, the

525

little puppy drug dealer, like walking

up to you, like, what do you want?

526

Do you want a schnoodle oodle doodle?

527

Or do you want to Yorkie schnorkie porkie?

528

You know, they've just got a hundred

breeds of puppies in their pockets.

529

And it's, you know, they shouldn't

have constant funneling out like

530

year after year, month after month.

531

There's no downtime.

532

They just constantly have all of

these dogs and puppies available.

533

It's not normal.

534

It's not right.

535

It's not healthy.

536

Um, And yeah, so the, the responsible guys

really put that commitment and passion

537

into those braids where they're perfecting

and we want to keep those clean, healthy

538

bloodlines in existence, um, for sure.

539

So there's just, unfortunately, there's

just not a lot of them out there.

540

They're out there for sure.

541

Um, and we need them, but unfortunately

all these bad breeders are just

542

messing it up for the rest of them.

543

DrG: And as consumers Uh, we are making

it so much easier for these puppy

544

millers because now we are taking into

this whole concept of designer breeds.

545

So we are allowing them to

basically sell us mutts for

546

thousands and thousands of dollars.

547

And so many people don't

research into that.

548

I mean, not that there's any research

to do really, but that we are, we are

549

allowing all this stuff to happen.

550

Shalimar Oliver: Yeah,

there's a little bit on the H.

551

S.

552

U.

553

S.

554

website in the puppy

mill research section.

555

You know, we go through there's

different fact sheets out there

556

for people because we want to give

as much information as we can.

557

We even go through the

hypo allergenic stuff.

558

You know, and so, but all your, your

schnoodle oodle mixes too, we're, yeah,

559

we're, we're, we're mixing breeds here

as to what the, why this doesn't make

560

sense to folks and whatever's trending,

like the bernie doodle is huge right now.

561

Why, because why, uh, the lab,

labradoodles that, that started everything

562

in the golden doodles that started at

all, um, you know, no, just no, when

563

there's shelters, there's no excuse.

564

Right now, with the national crisis

that all these poor shelters across

565

the country are going through with

overpopulation, overcrowding, and

566

all those shelter workers are just

trying to do their best to get by

567

and get those animals good homes.

568

And then you have somebody go

out and buy a golden doodle.

569

That's why.

570

DrG: Yeah.

571

And I mean, we just, we recently

were at a spay and neuter clinic,

572

um, in Muskegon County and one of the

local shelters brought us 10 doodle

573

puppies, beautiful puppies, young

puppies that ended up at a shelter.

574

Because the person that bred them

was like, well, I got too many and

575

these are not selling, so I'm just

going to give them to the shelter.

576

So how is that helping

the shelter population?

577

And all the people that say, oh,

you can't find anything other

578

than pit bulls at shelters.

579

No, the sad reality is that

shelters are full of every age,

580

every breed size and everything.

581

And on the whole Bernadudo, I'm

seeing Bernadudos that are 20

582

pounds at their largest as adults.

583

Right.

584

Do people know what

Bernese Mountain Dogs are?

585

They're gigantic dogs, right?

586

It's like, put curly hair on something

and call it whatever you want it to be.

587

It's like, what do you want?

588

You want a Bernadoodle?

589

Here, this is a Bernadoodle.

590

Because how are people also going

to know what the dog is going

591

to be once it's fully grown?

592

Yeah, it's not like there's a,

there's a standard to follow.

593

Shalimar Oliver: No, I

think with the minis too.

594

Yes.

595

You know, you can see a 20 pound

mini, you'll see a 50 pound mini.

596

Like, what, what?

597

DrG: Talking about shelters, and this is

kind of controversial, and I don't know

598

that we're going to get to an answer or

figure out, but just points for thoughts

599

is when rescues work with puppy mills.

600

Um, I work with a lot of rescues that

will get animals from puppy mills.

601

They'll get either puppies that cannot

be sold, or they will get , the dogs

602

that they're done breeding, uh, and often

in really horrible conditions, right?

603

Like horrible teeth, horrible skin

problems, and worse than that, horrible

604

emotional damage, because these dogs

are just living in a cage, living in

605

horrible conditions, not really handled.

606

So I've always had two ways of thinking

about it because I feel that the rescues

607

are enabling the puppy mills by getting

these dogs out of there and helping

608

them out and not, uh, reporting them.

609

But then the other side of it is

that the rescues are concerned

610

that if they Do report them.

611

Nothing's going to happen.

612

And then what's going to

happen to these to these dogs.

613

And we see some retail stores

that are now encouraging rescues

614

to put their adoptables right

next to the purebred dogs.

615

So what are kind of your

616

Shalimar Oliver: thoughts on that?

617

I think it's so new.

618

Not brand new.

619

It's been around for a minute, but

it is a new topic that I think,

620

yeah, it's controversial because

there's pros and cons to it.

621

Like, just like you said, I think

at the end of the day, there's

622

also a whole other topic that we've

talked about before there's good

623

rescues and there's bad rescues.

624

So, you know, the rescues going in with

the intent also to profit off of it.

625

Um, you know, at the end of the day,

they have to generate funds to continue

626

the support the work they're doing.

627

But when you see a rescue also

selling a puppy for 1, 000,

628

that's that's not what it's about.

629

And so, uh, I think it's still

controversial because it's so new.

630

Um, just like you said, you know, if

no one takes those dogs from those

631

breeders, the retired breeder adults.

632

The sick puppies, the old puppies

that are too old to sell anymore.

633

Where do they go?

634

This is part of the

disappearance act, right?

635

They disappeared.

636

No one ever knows where they end up.

637

So is it better for us in animal welfare

because we care and you can't kill off

638

kindness, uh, animal welfare lovers.

639

We're going to, you know, try to help

where we can, but at the end of the day.

640

We're adults.

641

That's your responsibility

as a breeder, right?

642

That it, that you have to

understand, you have to have a plan.

643

What are you going to do for

the dogs that don't sell?

644

How, how long are you going to

breed an adult before you're

645

going to stop breeding it?

646

And then what are you going to do if

you claim to care so much for the dogs?

647

So, you know, we see those

responsible breeders have that plan.

648

They always say if something's wrong

with the puppy, you can bring it

649

back to us and it's still treated as

a part of a member of their family.

650

Um, the retired breeders, the people

that only breeds so many seasons,

651

cycles, what, what have you.

652

And so they won't put that female through

having to, you know, be a machine of just

653

pumping out puppies like a t shirt gun.

654

And so I think there's a mix to it.

655

What do we do if we don't, if

we do nothing, what happens?

656

But then we, you know, are we enabling,

are we continuing to fuel that puppy

657

mill pipeline for supply and demand?

658

Because we've given them the

space to make more puppies.

659

I don't know that there's

an answer to it just yet.

660

I see both sides to it.

661

Part of it, it's like, okay, let's

help out those poor adult breeders

662

that just need a home to rest in.

663

But then it's, it's your choice as this,

as taking on breeding as, as a business.

664

That you have to have

that plan for those dogs.

665

So I'm not sure yet what that looks

what that's going to look like.

666

And when shelters and rescues are

competing just with simply the local

667

supply and demand of from their

community, people that can't keep

668

their pets anymore stray animals that

are found and born, um, you know,

669

where's the space for those guys?

670

And do they get priority?

671

What does that look like?

672

Because I don't know.

673

That's a whole other topic with all of our

shelters right now that we feel right now.

674

So bad for, I don't know

how they're doing it.

675

How are you adopting where, you know,

we've, we've re reached this point where

676

they're not seeing as many adoptions,

um, and their resources are so low.

677

They're so spread thin.

678

So then you bring in this other type

of population again, at the end of

679

the day, it's all about spay'n neuter,

680

DrG: right?

681

Yeah, exactly.

682

Yeah.

683

So we, I mean, we have the, as

consumers, again, we have the power.

684

Spay neuter to control over population

to decrease the number of unwanted

685

animals that end up in the shelter.

686

But then it is all

about supply and demand.

687

So if we stop demanding the animals from

the puppy mills, they have to shut down.

688

I mean, if they don't have anything

to sell, then they're going to go into

689

another venture because if they can't

make money of it, they're not going to,

690

they're not going to continue it on.

691

Shalimar Oliver: And sure.

692

There's the whole, you know, I get it.

693

Shelter takes in 20

dogs from a puppy mill.

694

It brings the community and they flock

into that shelter and it can expose, you

695

know, maybe somebody that wasn't going

to adopt a cat falls in love with a cat

696

and that takes that one can into a home

or a different dog that was already

697

at the shelter for 300 days now gets a

chance to be seen by somebody that may

698

not have, I, I will acknowledge that.

699

However, the, the larger side of that

with these big populations coming in

700

from breeders, Getting rid of their dogs.

701

It's hard to think about.

702

But it does boil down to, at the end of

the day, in the animal welfare community,

703

we all have a hard time saying no.

704

DrG: And I guess that actually,

I had not thought about, uh, the

705

uh, auctions, the puppy auctions.

706

Where, which are so horrible.

707

I've never, I've never seen one in person,

I've only examined animals that come out

708

of it, but can you explain to people what

are these puppy auctions and why they're

709

Shalimar Oliver: so horrible?

710

Oh, let me give you a great example

of one with a big commercial burrito

711

that was getting busted and needed to

downsize so you can just Like we talked

712

about in the beginning, where the dogs

disappear and the regulatory agencies

713

don't care, the fact is dogs are gone,

so now it's not their problem anymore.

714

But part of where those dogs disappear to

are auctions, where if I just got busted

715

by the USDA, I got 500 dogs and they all

look like hell, and I've got to downsize

716

or fix the sick ones by this day, I'm

gonna load a hundred of them up, and

717

I'm gonna go to this auction where it's

literally people just bidding on dogs.

718

It's usually other breeders.

719

That are then taking Those dogs to

then make their own populations.

720

And again, talk about feeling the

cycle, just regenerating it over

721

and over, uh, the conditions there.

722

Are they, is there any kind

of oversight or enforcement?

723

No, absolutely not.

724

We get into other auctions, livestock

auctions, you know, there's the one out

725

in the, the equine one in Holland, pa.

726

They're awful.

727

And then when they're left there

too, they're, what are they?

728

Do they have food,

water, adequate shelter?

729

Um, is there regulations

on selling sick ones?

730

Nope.

731

Sure isn't.

732

Hey, you got 200 bucks and you want

to buy this, you know, breeder.

733

This female that's been used

about 22 times in her life.

734

Here you go.

735

She's yours.

736

And so it's disgusting.

737

There are some rescues that try

to do some good and they try to

738

raise money to go out there and get

some of those dogs out of there.

739

It's heartbreaking.

740

Cause it's like, I wish I had a million

dollars so you could just buy everything.

741

Guess what?

742

If you had a million dollars and you

bought all those dogs, they'll find a

743

way to bring in more, no matter what.

744

DrG: Yeah, that's what that's where I

have been involved have been rescues

745

that go to these auctions and then

they get the puppies and nobody wants

746

right they're getting some of these

dogs for like five bucks, 10 bucks,

747

and they are dogs in horrible shape.

748

Um, and, and we have to think about the

fact that, you know, again, we talked

749

about all the, the health diseases

and the emotional problems that these

750

dogs have, and then the rescues take

these dogs, get them spayed and kind

751

of patch them up, and then these

dogs become somebody else's problem.

752

Yeah,

753

Shalimar Oliver: they're going to take

that on and sustain that, you know,

754

whatever the medical issue might be.

755

And if there's not a combination of the

medical issues, if it's a younger dog

756

that as it grows, then develops those

congenital issues that's put on that

757

poor, again, well intentioned person

that wants to bring, you know, another

758

family member into they're stuck with,

which is, we know too, the costs.

759

To, to care for them.

760

And then, you know, you want to keep

going on about the cycle, it can lead

761

to then people either surrendering the

dog again or failing to provide care to

762

their own pet and that gets reported.

763

So it's a vicious cycle.

764

And then you're really just relying

on these amazing people that have the

765

means to pay thousands and thousands

of dollars, which is not a lot of us.

766

Rightly so, you know, I,

it's, it's, it's a lot.

767

The, uh, pet is a huge undertaking.

768

Um, other countries right now that are

questioning, like, do you need a license?

769

Like, do you need permission basically,

uh, to earn a dog because of what

770

their issues are they're seeing?

771

So, um, it's a huge responsibility,

but they have, the consumers are left

772

with having to continue that care.

773

Once the rescue still pumped

thousands or hundreds of dollars

774

into that dog, it doesn't stop there.

775

Um, and then behaviorally too,

which is a whole other thing.

776

So if they're having to manage that, and

we've seen people that have, you know,

777

adopted from a rescue, but then returned

it because the, the dog's behavior is,

778

is something that is not compatible with

their lifestyle or wishes for, for a pet.

779

DrG: Yeah.

780

I would definitely like to see more

regulation of not just the puppy

781

milk, which they're not well, properly

as properly regulated as we would

782

like, but regulation of just anybody

that breeds a dog for sale, because

783

they're just, there, there is no way.

784

To properly keep track of it.

785

And there are so many people that

are doing it for the wrong reasons,

786

just because they want to make money.

787

I know of a person that breeds small

breed dogs and the, at least the mom dog.

788

And I probably the dad dog too,

but the bitch has skin problems,

789

behavior problems, I think orthopedic

problems, and they keep breeding them

790

and the people that are buying them.

791

It's just like, Oh, what a cute puppy.

792

And then they pay her many

hundreds of dollars for this dog.

793

That is a genetic disaster and for why?

794

Right?

795

Because this person is not, is

not being, uh, regulated and

796

they're probably not even paying

taxes for the sale of these dogs.

797

Like, it's just ridiculous

all the way around.

798

And the one that suffer is the person

that bought this dog thinking that

799

they're buying a healthy puppy.

800

And then the dog in the end, that is

going to have all of these health problems

801

that may or may not get treated properly.

802

Well, so somebody actually did make a

report once you guys received that report.

803

How does it go forward from there?

804

Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, I mean,

it's, it's a hit or miss, right?

805

So if we get information sent over to us.

806

Uh, so we can either receive it from

a person that's visited, so they're

807

reporting the conditions, a buyer that's

had a horrible experience, uh, law

808

enforcement, family of, you know, there's

so many different ways that we can receive

809

information, but once we're contacted, um,

let's say that we get an online complaint.

810

And so we'll, you know, document it,

address it, do some research on it, and

811

then we're going to reach out to law

enforcement and share the information

812

with them, but also follow up and offering

any kind of resources and assistance.

813

So, you know, sometimes they might just,

you know, law enforcement will then

814

go out, do an inspection, uh, confirm

whether or not there are any issues.

815

Close the case.

816

Uh, sometimes we have an

opportunity in our outreach to law

817

enforcement to provide education.

818

This is something I've

not investigated before.

819

What do I do?

820

What am I looking for?

821

Great.

822

Let me tell you all the things.

823

DrG: Asking for help is great.

824

Please

825

Shalimar Oliver: do.

826

Right.

827

To follow up with, you know, if these

things happen and you find these

828

problems that we can support ABC for you.

829

Um, and then the, the hope is if they

open an investigation and it becomes a big

830

deal, referencing a recent North Carolina,

a puppy mill case that we just did.

831

Um, you know, law enforcement

takes real interest.

832

They acknowledge this as a horrific issue

in their jurisdiction and they want to

833

act on it, but then they're like, Wait,

there's how many dogs on the property?

834

Over 100?

835

Uh, what do we have to do if we have

to seize them through a search warrant?

836

Where do we put them?

837

What do we do?

838

Is this live evidence?

839

Uh, who's responsible

for paying for all this?

840

We don't have a vet.

841

We have no local shelter or our local

animal shelter has five kennels that

842

are already filled with 50 dogs.

843

Um, they don't have the resources.

844

We will come in and it's it's something

that we, you know, hope to help with in

845

our connection and our outreach with these

agencies of if you can, on your side,

846

perform the criminal investigation, see

there's an issue, there's enough evidence.

847

To pursue something you've tried to help.

848

You've tried to educate.

849

There's been no change or compliance

and it reaches the point where a

850

search warrant needs to be executed

and we're working with law enforcement.

851

We're working with the prosecutor's

office, but we're the ones

852

providing those resources.

853

Yes.

854

And we come in.

855

Under law enforcement to work with them

and work for them in providing all of

856

those resources, the unseen evidence

collection during the search warrant.

857

But then after that, too, it's

not like we just help on the day.

858

And then we were off.

859

Um, H.

860

S.

861

U.

862

S.

863

Being able.

864

To provide that financial assistance

relieves them of the financial burden,

865

which is at one of the major concerns

of an enforcement agency pursuing these

866

cases, because as you know, they can

cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

867

we participated in cases that have

cost us over millions of dollars.

868

One that comes to mind that we spent over

2 million while the dogs were in our care.

869

That is nothing that a

local agency can take on.

870

No rescue that could

bankrupt a non profit.

871

And so being able to give these resources

at no cost to an enforcement agency

872

that you can do your job and we can

support you in that is incredible.

873

We're very fortunate as an

organization that we can do that.

874

But if, and when needed.

875

Um, you know, like I mentioned, not

just on seizure day, but then following

876

the ongoing care of the animals, the

cost of veterinary care and veterinary

877

assessment and examination and triage

of all these dogs that have come

878

in from these horrific conditions.

879

Um, the cost can be gargantuan

transporting them where

880

are they getting housed?

881

Because again, they're live evidence

that they don't go in a drug locker.

882

So then the staff and the resources to

continue that care whilst those are animal

883

whilst those animals are held throughout

the duration of the court case, which is

884

we know can take years, especially if it's

in a state that doesn't have cost of care.

885

So, um, you know, you could be holding

on to the animals for weeks to months to

886

years, I've seen a shelter in Kentucky.

887

It was two to three years

they were holding on to these

888

dogs the puppies were adults.

889

You know, it's, it's horrific to

think about, but yes, we can come in

890

and provide those kinds of resources.

891

If requested, we just

have to be invited in.

892

DrG: A lot of people that complain about

why is this puppy mill still around?

893

Like, why are you not doing anything?

894

They don't recognize the lack of

resources, including specially as you

895

mentioned and veterinary resources.

896

I know here in Ohio, for instance,

there are so many veterinarians that

897

don't want to get involved because

they don't want to go to court.

898

They don't want to, you

know, have to write legal.

899

papers or consults because they're

concerned about what if I mess up?

900

What if I do something wrong?

901

And that for, for animal cases,

you have to have a veterinary team.

902

You have to have people that know

about animals to, to help with that.

903

And as you said, where are

these animals going to go?

904

Now, when you recuperate the animals

from a case, when you get the animals

905

out of that situation, what are the

possible end points for those animals?

906

Shalimar Oliver: Once we bring them

back to our, uh, either if it's a

907

local temporary shelter, or we have

a care and rehabilitation facility in

908

Maryland, um, once they either come

back to either shelter, um, then our

909

mission first off is to rehabilitate.

910

We need to get a lot of these

animals, obviously, because they've

911

been seized, are in poor conditions.

912

So, showing improvement.

913

providing simple things such as food

and water and adequate shelter, but then

914

the needed vet care for a lot of them.

915

Um, and so that takes time.

916

That takes in some situations, a long

time to rehabilitate, uh, medically and

917

behaviorally because these dogs are coming

in from horrific conditions and we have

918

a great behavior team that works closely

with them to monitor, address, provide

919

those resources for that for those dogs.

920

, but, uh, you know, provide the dogs

with the things that they need to

921

learn or remember how to dog again.

922

So that we can essentially

set them up for success.

923

And their next step of their journey

that once we get custody of them,

924

then we work with these incredible

shelter and rescue partners across

925

the country that have some space.

926

We don't want to overwhelm their

population and overburden them.

927

So we want to look for the places of where

is their space, where is there some needs.

928

And so once those shelter and rescue

partners can take them in, then we want to

929

send, you know, the dogs that we've now,

um, invested everything into to set them

930

up for success in the step of their next,

you know, adventure and the next chapter

931

in their life so they can find good homes.

932

and bring awareness, especially

when they're puppy mill dogs

933

coming from puppy mill cases.

934

People think it's cute and then it's,

but it is an opportunity then to train

935

and teach members of the community, like,

but this is what, what they came from.

936

These are the conditions.

937

that they may not have really

understood or known about before.

938

DrG: In closing, how can,

how can consumers protect

939

themselves from purchasing a

dog that is from a puppy mill?

940

Shalimar Oliver: I say this to

my friends that reach out to me.

941

So even close, the people

that are close to me.

942

That I care for that I don't want

to see go through the experiences

943

that I see every day at work.

944

Um, is kind of what we touched

on with the responsible breeders,

945

you know, look for the breeders

that have all this information.

946

There should be, you know, no hesitation

if you have questions about things that

947

they have answers to those questions

that if you want to see something

948

that they will show you whether it be.

949

In person living conditions,

the parents, the dog, uh, the

950

biggest things, genetic testing.

951

Can I tell you how many handwritten

receipts I've seen of like

952

vaccine check on the back of a

grocery receipt or something?

953

No, no handwritten information.

954

You want documentation.

955

You know what official

documentation looks like as a

956

veterinarian, all of that paperwork.

957

There should be no hesitation.

958

Even do you want to

talk to my veterinarian?

959

Right.

960

Hey, the medical expert who has seen and

treated all your dogs over the years,

961

um, but the genetic testing is huge.

962

I would focus more on what is a red flag.

963

Red flag is someone who has.

964

Everything, every time, all

the time, should be a red flag.

965

The breeder that says, let's meet in this

parking lot at Home Depot or Walmart.

966

DrG: 10 o'clock at night, cash only.

967

Shalimar Oliver: Yeah.

968

Um, and you, someone, people that

should have these good reviews,

969

look up reviews because guess what?

970

No one can, no one says

things when they're great.

971

But I tell you, they'll

complain when something's bad.

972

So you'll see a lot of bad

reviews out there as well.

973

Don't forget the information you

have access to, to look up the

974

USDA, um, their search tool for

the breeder license registrations.

975

Also each state, not every state,

but there are some states that have,

976

um, that require state licenses

and they do state inspections.

977

Can you request those records

to that regulatory agency?

978

Is it, is it accessible?

979

Most of them are not accessible online,

but there are some states that you

980

can pull that information off of.

981

, and then, , uh, yeah, doing just any

basic online research to looking at

982

their website, looking at other people

that have had those experiences, not

983

going on a Facebook marketplace and

looking at something like for 300.

984

It looks cute.

985

Um, but the red flags to them of

especially if you with the puppy

986

mill scams where they're trying

to, you know, get you to give them

987

more money for different reasons.

988

So, uh, focus on the red flags.

989

What doesn't look right?

990

And yes, totally go with your

gut, um, and do your research.

991

So really take the time.

992

I think when people are buying on a

whim or just because they want it.

993

That's where something usually

goes wrong, because they

994

haven't really taken the time.

995

even when you go to shelters, like

people will visit more than once,

996

because they want to look around,

they want to get a feel for it.

997

So it shouldn't be a

rush, a rush purchase.

998

Um, that's where bad things

can definitely happen too.

999

So really paying attention to

those red flags, but using the

00:54:35,713 --> 00:54:38,513

tools or knowing about the tools

that are out there to help you.

00:54:38,963 --> 00:54:42,453

Buy the right dog if you don't

want to go to your local shelter.

00:54:43,733 --> 00:54:45,913

DrG: I always tell people, you

know, obviously the shelters are

00:54:45,913 --> 00:54:50,563

overcrowded so adopt, don't shop,

but if you shop, shop responsibly.

00:54:50,713 --> 00:54:54,943

Like, don't just go buying for backyard

breeders and people that are just selling

00:54:54,943 --> 00:54:58,163

dogs for the wrong reasons, which the

wrong reasons is just to make a buck.

00:54:58,488 --> 00:55:03,168

Not to better the breed or to,

uh, you know, breed out genetic

00:55:03,168 --> 00:55:04,828

problems and genetic disorders.

00:55:05,158 --> 00:55:07,238

Shalimar Oliver: And people

are upset about, like, there's

00:55:07,238 --> 00:55:08,368

no puppies in shelters.

00:55:08,378 --> 00:55:11,688

Well, there's rescues that are going

to these states that are riddled with

00:55:11,698 --> 00:55:13,788

puppies, trying to bring some back.

00:55:13,788 --> 00:55:16,268

So rescues play a really great role in.

00:55:16,573 --> 00:55:17,723

Adoption too.

00:55:18,323 --> 00:55:18,683

So,

00:55:19,573 --> 00:55:21,853

DrG: and there's even

purebred rescues, right?

00:55:21,853 --> 00:55:24,883

So people that are interested

in purebreds, there are places

00:55:24,923 --> 00:55:27,363

that are purebred rescues and

they do get puppies occasionally.

00:55:27,533 --> 00:55:31,203

And yes, it is difficult to adopt

from them because I'm sure there's

00:55:31,203 --> 00:55:34,983

a high demand, but they don't want

those dogs to end up back with them.

00:55:35,623 --> 00:55:40,463

So they are going to be really picky,

sometimes pickier than adopting a child.

00:55:40,573 --> 00:55:44,033

Shalimar Oliver: Yeah, they, they, they,

some of their requirements, um, you know,

00:55:44,033 --> 00:55:46,443

we've seen they're very, uh, intense.

00:55:47,003 --> 00:55:52,243

And we, we feel that passion, um,

but it shouldn't be impossible.

00:55:52,423 --> 00:55:52,783

Right.

00:55:53,073 --> 00:55:57,503

If there are reasons that they want to

adopt to people, they should be legitimate

00:55:57,503 --> 00:55:59,413

reasons, but it shouldn't be impossible.

00:55:59,413 --> 00:56:02,383

When you hit that point,

that's a red flag for a rescue.

00:56:03,343 --> 00:56:06,603

DrG: Right, yeah, how much they

charge and what exactly they're,

00:56:06,613 --> 00:56:08,493

they're looking for as well.

00:56:09,113 --> 00:56:13,023

So, uh, if anybody wants to find out

information about the puppy mill campaign

00:56:13,043 --> 00:56:15,193

from HSUS, how can they get that?

00:56:15,773 --> 00:56:17,703

Shalimar Oliver: Yes, anyone

can go online and look up at

00:56:17,743 --> 00:56:20,243

HSUS's website, so humanesociety.

00:56:20,273 --> 00:56:20,683

org.

00:56:20,723 --> 00:56:23,533

We have a ton of puppy mills research.

00:56:23,653 --> 00:56:27,873

You can just type in HSUS puppy

mills research, every kind of

00:56:27,873 --> 00:56:29,103

document will fly on your face.

00:56:30,063 --> 00:56:33,833

They, the team has done a phenomenal

job with, uh, comprising all of this

00:56:33,833 --> 00:56:38,733

information into easy flow section

in the website, um, so that we can

00:56:38,743 --> 00:56:40,433

teach you all things puppy mills.

00:56:40,453 --> 00:56:43,663

And if people have questions, there's

emails for people to reach out to

00:56:43,663 --> 00:56:48,063

us, ask these questions, learn this

information, spread the information,

00:56:48,453 --> 00:56:52,513

tons of other advocacy groups that

are out there also trying to send the

00:56:52,523 --> 00:56:56,853

message about we need to end puppy mills

and do better with regulating them.

00:56:57,283 --> 00:56:58,863

So anyway, we can help.

00:56:59,638 --> 00:57:02,998

DrG: Always amazing talking to you

because you're a wealth of information

00:57:03,398 --> 00:57:06,008

and you kick ass against animal cruelty.

00:57:06,008 --> 00:57:07,498

So thank you for everything that you do.

00:57:07,508 --> 00:57:07,718

Shalimar Oliver: Back at you.

00:57:10,278 --> 00:57:14,378

DrG: And for everybody that is

listening, please, I hope that

00:57:14,378 --> 00:57:16,518

you get at least a little bit of.

00:57:16,753 --> 00:57:18,493

new information or education.

00:57:18,793 --> 00:57:23,753

And as Shalimar said, spread the word

because we are the only ones that can

00:57:23,753 --> 00:57:25,373

help this problem and stop puppy mills.

00:57:25,953 --> 00:57:29,863

So thank you ma'am very much

again for being here and to

00:57:30,063 --> 00:57:31,333

everybody that's listening.

00:57:31,393 --> 00:57:33,333

Thanks to you for listening

and thank you for caring.

00:57:34,093 --> 00:57:34,850

Thank you much.