Mari Wagner sits down with Catholic content creator Maclaine Noah to explore the impact of social media and specifically social media addiction. Known for her Instagram account @acatholicconvo, Maclaine shares her journey of balancing her online presence with real-life commitments, and the unseen addiction challenges social media can present. The discussion covers practical tips for managing social media use, the importance of intentionality, and the spiritual implications of overconsumption. Together they offer guidance on how to make social media a tool for good without compromising one's mental, physical, and spiritual well-being.

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Follow Maclaine on Instagram @acatholicconvo and her social media examination of conscience is pinned at the top of her account.

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Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

2

podcast where faith meets lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here, whether you're

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful real life conversations

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and actionable steps on how to claim

the full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

9

Welcome to Ever Be.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

All right.

11

Happy Wednesday friends.

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We have a long time friend

on the podcast here today.

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McLean Noah.

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If you follow her on Instagram

at a Catholic convo, you

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probably know who she is.

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She was like one of the OG

Catholic content creators

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back in the day and still is.

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I think before I started my account,

some of my friends were like, you should

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follow this girl, like a Catholic convo.

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Like, this is kind of what

we feel like you should do.

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So like, she's the OG basically.

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Um, so McLean welcome to ever be,

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Hi, thanks for having me.

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Uh, it is an honor.

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So thank you, Mari.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

can you tell us a little bit about

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who you are and what you're doing

in case people maybe don't know

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who you are, don't follow you yet.

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Yes, absolutely.

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Um, so my name is McLean.

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I am a young woman living in South

Dakota, which, um, Knowing me, I

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never thought I would say, but,

um, basically I am a mother, I'm

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a wife, I am a beloved daughter.

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Um, those actually go in backwards

order, so you can just reverse that

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and that's the order they go in.

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And, um, yeah, I'm very passionate

about, um, social media, the effect

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that it has on the church and, uh,

the greater role of evangelization.

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Um, but also all of the, um, things that

can come with social media as far as the

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negative sides that I don't know are being

spoken about enough I think everyone has

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experienced and it's kind of this like

secret, uh, unmentioned thing that we.

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Think we can just kind of

pray about and deal with.

42

Um, but I think it should really be part

of a bigger conversation, especially in

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the world of creatives and people who

are in the Catholic Instagram Um, yeah,

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other than that, I love my husband.

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I love my son.

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I love South Dakota and

I'm just happy to be here.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Good.

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Yeah, I'm glad that you have opened

up this conversation on Instagram

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and I mean, it's been a few years of

you talking about it here and there.

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So it's not like it's new.

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Um, but I honestly, I just don't

feel like I've seen a lot of

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other people speak on the topic.

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Which is what I thought of you

when I wanted to talk about it.

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And before we hit record, I

was telling McLean selfishly.

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She's here talking about this right now.

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Cause I feel like I'm scrolling a

lot lately and I like need boundaries

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and I need a conversation with

someone to be like, okay, what are,

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what is the purpose of social media?

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How do we know when we're going too far?

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How do we know when it's using

us instead of us using it?

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Um, so I'm excited to jump in, but

I think, uh, just starting kind

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of in a baseline level talk to

us about like, What do you feel

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like is social media addiction?

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Um, how did you become

interested in this topic?

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And like, what really is

it just on a basic level?

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah,

um, so addiction is a very bold word and

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I do use that word on purpose because

I think it creates a sense of urgency

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and also speaks into other vices that

we can experience and other forms of

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addiction that we can experience so,

um, Nothing that I say is going to be,

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you know, I'm not trained in addiction

or, um, you know, any, anything that is,

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uh, medically involved with what we're

going to be talking about, um, but just

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looking and observing and being in the

social media world and then having my.

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A humble understanding of,

um, vice and Catholicism is

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what I'll be speaking out of.

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But, um, social media addiction is

basically a way of, um, indicating when.

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You have an overuse of social media.

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So overuse is a lighter term that we can

use Um, but basically you feel a tie or

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you see yourself Uh the physical action

of being tied to social media in a way.

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That's not Moderate or not prudent.

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So just like um addiction to alcohol

is going to be over consumption of

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alcohol or whatever Um, kind of like a

worshiping in a sense, I idolatry of.

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a thing is going to lead

into that addiction.

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so when we idolize and, um, kind

of worship social media in our

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time and in our hearts, what I'm

referring to with, um, social media

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addiction, if that makes sense.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah, no,

that's a really great, um, explanation.

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What can this look like

practically for somebody?

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How can we kind of maybe like

take note of our actions?

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

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So this is gonna look different for a

ton of people, which is why it's tricky.

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but.

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Essentially, the reason why I became

so passionate talking about this was

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because of The, my own poverty that

I found in, uh, social media overuse.

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And so what I found was an initial desire

and heart for, um, being a Catholic

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voice on Instagram and sharing the

gospel and sharing my life in order to

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witness to what Jesus has done for me.

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Um,

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you, uh, that's really easy to do if you

think of the context of a blog, like a

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website blog, because that's really a

one sided, you're putting out things and

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then, um, you're kind of closing that blog

social media when it was introduced this

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back and forth interactive concept that

allowed people to, um, Continue to invest

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in the platform as it invests in them.

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So you're being given content and reels

and an explore page, um, all the time,

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even when you're just trying to create.

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What you want to create on the

platform, if that makes sense.

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there's really no way for you to

just, um, take from social media.

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It is going to take something from you.

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And so you have to know as you're entering

in that that's what we're dealing with.

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Which is why I think.

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Creators need to be more sober to

this reality because it is Something

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that can really draw you in and bring

you into um Social media addiction,

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but if you're looking for indicators,

this would be anything There's going

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to be a full scale, but it could be

anything from um Like scrolling too

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often, which we hear all the time.

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Um, oh, I'm scrolling too much.

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Or I, um, you can maybe retreat from

of your, um, daily tasks to lay on

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the couch and scroll just for a little

bit, but maybe for a little bit more.

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Um, it could be, you know, like you.

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You can't really go to the restroom

without bringing your phone.

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You can't, run an errand

without bringing your phone.

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Um, and maybe some people have

phones without social media.

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So that's why it's, you got to

think about your own situation.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Right.

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

and then it can get all the way to.

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know, retreating from personal

relationships, prayer, your

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relationship with God in exchange

for more time on social media.

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So what we're talking about is really just

an increased use of social media that is

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somehow altering or even detrimental to

relationships or activities in your life.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah,

and it seems like it's like, whether

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it's a passive or active choice to choose

social media over other things more often.

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So I'm thinking to, um,

to add to this list, like.

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How many times do you pick up your

phone and maybe even open the app?

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I mean, we can talk about phone

addiction one, but right now we're just

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focusing on social media addiction,

but like, first of all, how many

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times are we picking up your phone?

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How many times are we opening the app?

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Are we doing it?

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Like you said, every time I go to the

bathroom or like anytime you're in a line

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or even like while you're driving and

it's on a red light, are you picking up

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your phone to just be like, Oh, I just.

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I don't know like it's just like a natural

reaction you have of like i'm waiting not

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doing anything for more than 10 seconds So

are you picking up your phone to do that?

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um Yeah, if you're like if you live with

roommates or if you are married and you

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have a husband or a spouse Like are you?

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Using your phone and using social media

while you're in the presence of community.

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Are you in the presence of your husband

and you're just like naturally picking

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it up while you're at dinner or on

the couch or in the car or whatever.

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You know what I mean?

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So those are the things that kind of

came to mind as you were talking of just

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like, in what instances and how often

are we choosing that over something

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else and kind of looking to like, why we

both don't believe social media is bad.

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Right.

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But it's like, okay.

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But like, why are we picking it?

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Do we have a reason to pick it up

every time we're picking it up?

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And I know for myself times when I have

fasted from social media, either like

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randomly or during Lent or something,

and I haven't like deleted the app.

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It's like impossible.

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It's like, you don't realize

how many times you pick it up.

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Just.

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Just to open the app and you're like,

Oh, I'm supposed to be fasting from this.

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Like, why did I even open it?

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Like, why did I even open it?

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It's like the fifth time that

I've opened it and I'm like,

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supposed to be fasting from it.

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So it's really become a thing for a

lot of us and ingrained habit, but

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we don't really have a why behind

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

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Part of my fear actually comes from.

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The Catholic social media world,

which I do believe is overall doing

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good things, but, um, building that

habit of continuing to open it and

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it's just kind of fine and it's okay.

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I opened it again, um, because what if

you're opening it and in your newsfeed,

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it's a beautiful Catholic post and it's

like scripture and it's the gospel or,

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um, Yeah, it's something inherently.

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And so we can kind of rationalize

an addictive tendency it's Catholic.

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I'm

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

we're doing

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

content.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: things.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that's a great distinction to make.

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Cause it's like, Of course, like if

you're going to be consuming something,

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yeah, like let's clean out the feed.

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Let's follow people that are actually

sharing the gospel and inspiring

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you to live a Christ centered life.

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But like you're saying at the same time,

that's not an excuse to, uh, overdo it

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and, you know, let go of moderation.

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Um, and you can say that for a lot of

things too, but let's just be realistic.

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Who do you, who do you feel

like is actually struggling with

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social media overuse or addiction?

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

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So, um, anyone that's going to be

an active social media user, I would

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say should have it on their radar.

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Because, um, I don't know if you have

watched The Social Dilemma on Netflix,

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or, um, anyone listening, if they've

seen it, one of my favorite movies.

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I think it's Very well done.

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Um, it's a documentary about

the roots of social media, um,

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and the effects of social media.

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And, um, you're hearing firsthand from

the creators of these apps and major

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platforms, um, that they were created to.

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Use a piece of you like they are using

the information that you give them, um,

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as even if that's something as simple

as what clothing brand you would want

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to buy from, which isn't a bad thing.

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Um, but.

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I would say, like, anyone who's going to

be on social media, these apps are created

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for addiction because it benefits them for

you to use social media more frequently.

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And so, um, they're often not going

to be looking out for Your personal

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moderation, because if you're on

Instagram longer, then they can feed you

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more ads and get more money ultimately.

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So, anyone who is on social media

should be looking for it, but I would

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say, um, Gen Z, which, um, according

to Pew Research is going to be

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starting at 1997 and younger as far

as a birth year definitely going to be

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Kind of in danger because

we're full digital natives, uh,

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah,

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

an extent, a lot of millennials still

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were kind of in that introducing, um,

timeframe of technology, but that's

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what I would say, which is really

to have the answer of everyone.

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Um, and

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: everyone.

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

everyone, everyone, but,

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um, just knowing, I think.

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What comes with other vice and other sin

is saying, like, that could never be me,

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you know, I could never do something,

um, like that, or I would never take part

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in that sin and not realizing that we

are fallen humans and, you know, We are

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capable of any sin, but by God's grace,

that's how we deter away from them.

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So, um, if you're on social

media, look out for him.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Yeah, for sure.

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Can you share maybe from your own life?

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I feel like you shared a bit about

this when you first started, um,

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just opening up the conversation

about social media addiction online.

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Like what were some of the things

you noticed in your own life that

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were kind of tipping you off to

like, Oh, this is like actually going

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in an addictive pattern right now.

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

I think the big indicator was I

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was choosing social media over.

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An activity in my life that

actually brought me joy.

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I'm not talking about sitting on a

stoplight or waiting in line where it's

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like, objectively, I would being on

my phone more than waiting in a line.

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Um, that's okay because

that's my, you know, boredom.

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Um, but I'm talking about.

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Things that I loved doing, maybe like, um,

doing photography, or going to a coffee

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shop and reading, or Um, writing something

in my journal, going to the chapel.

245

Things that I liked doing when I started

preferring media use and scrolling over

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those when I was like, is not right.

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Because I love these things.

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I love, uh, being with my family, um,

visiting my Newman center, shopping.

249

Why?

250

I'm choosing social media over that.

251

Um, and so that really brought a

lot of fear into my heart of like,

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this is always isolating me, which,

um, in a lot of ways I've made many

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friendships, relationships, connections,

joyful, good things from social media.

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And so that's the hard

part because it can be.

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Really good and really beautiful

when it's used moderately.

256

Um,

257

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

258

The key here is moderation, which

we'll get into in a little bit, but

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: yes.

260

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: sharing.

261

I feel like I remember, um, you sharing

too, which I related to that, like when

262

you were in the chapel praying, you

almost had like the like real sounds like

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playing in your head as you were praying.

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And it was like distracting to prayer.

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Cause you're like, all I can think

about is like this freaking trending

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sound that keeps popping up my feed.

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And when you said that,

I was like, Oh wow.

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I feel like I can relate to that,

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yep.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

which just shows like the linger.

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The lingering of it I know and it's

like that's kind of hard to control

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sometimes too because the songs are

catchy I'm, like I've got this like

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

274

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

page of dr.

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B in my head like over and over

again right now It's whatever

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this trending sound right now.

277

Really?

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yes.

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: gonna

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

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With

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: just Same

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

So, but I mean.

284

It's tricky because, you know, I'm

a new mom and the only thing that

285

calms down our baby boy is the song

Edelweiss from The Sound of Music.

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And it is a short song with

very few words, and so we're

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singing that daily over and over.

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That gets stuck in my head.

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So it's like It's, it's also a human

thing and just our brains that things

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are going to get stuck in our head.

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But there's a difference like that got

stuck in my head because I was caring

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for my son and trying to console him

with a song versus, um, scrolling 20

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times and I'm seeing that audio over

and over and over, um, and I'm not

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getting off of social media and so

it's in my head, does that make sense?

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There

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah,

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

difference.

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It's

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mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: totally.

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I

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: head.

302

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: want

to circle back to the conversation

303

of, uh, the Catholic social media

world that we touched on a little bit.

304

Um, we both, like we said earlier, see

so much goodness in beauty and power

305

in evangelizing through social media

as that's where our generation is at.

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But I want to talk a little bit

about like, what are the ways

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that we feel like It's helpful.

308

What are the ways that maybe

the way we're using social

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media makes this world harmful?

310

How can we be aware of that?

311

How can we make sure that like

we're approaching this, um, maybe

312

as creators, like in a healthy way.

313

And then as, as users, as people consuming

the content on the other side, which I'm

314

sure is the majority of listeners, um,

how can we consume this in a healthy way?

315

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yes,

I think there are a lot of helpful things

316

about social media and we can list off

a million because the church has urged

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us into this new evangelization and

that includes in the digital world.

318

Like we go, the church

has always gone where.

319

Her people are, and so

we will go to Instagram.

320

I will go to Instagram and evangelize

if people are there and they are.

321

Um, I think on Pew research, it says

69 percent of adults and 81 percent

322

of teens are social media users.

323

So it's continuing, continuing

to climb and, um, we really want

324

to meet them where they are.

325

And so in that way.

326

Social media is so helpful

because you think of conference.

327

We were both just at the

national Eucharistic Congress.

328

Um, what if, you know, monstrance was

in their explore page, a user's explore

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page that has never seen a monstrance.

330

They have no idea what that is.

331

don't know who Jesus is and

they see it for the first time.

332

That was a way that God could.

333

of come into their life, but it has to

be that starting point that would launch

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into in person incarnational relationship

because Jesus if social media was

335

necessary for a relationship with Christ

or Necessary for evangelization, then

336

he would have come with a smartphone.

337

Do you know what I mean?

338

And like he would have

come with a Facebook page

339

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

You're right.

340

I've never thought about it that way.

341

Yeah,

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maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

have come verified.

343

He would have had the blue check and he

344

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

he was the biggest influencer.

345

He was, but

346

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Exactly.

347

Yes.

348

so that tells us that it's not necessary.

349

What Jesus did use were new

words, new teachings that linked

350

back to the old Testament.

351

He presented teachings in new

ways that we could understand.

352

He loved people in a very different.

353

Culturally groundbreaking way.

354

um, used new means of evangelization.

355

And so that's why the church says

technology is a tool that we can use.

356

But like you said, in the beginning of

the podcast, um, the, the hard work is to.

357

Render technology to our, uh, use and

to use it as a tool so that we aren't

358

Have you seen, um, the social dilemma,

359

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

I actually haven't when it came

360

out, I was like, I'm too scared.

361

Like I had, this is going

to make me get off my phone.

362

And I was like, I can't, I,

I literally haven't seen it.

363

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

my gosh.

364

Okay.

365

There's a beautiful quote, beautiful.

366

LOL.

367

a helpful quote, um, in the movie.

368

I forget who it's attributed to,

but it says, um, The only two types

369

of goods that consider their, um,

audience to be users are the drug

370

industry and the social media industry.

371

No one else is a user.

372

Like, and so even that language is going

to indicate The fact that, like, we are

373

being taken advantage of to some extent.

374

Our time is what social media is buying

and taking from us and using of us.

375

and our attention.

376

Our time and attention.

377

Um, you have to watch this movie.

378

It's so good, Mari.

379

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

And now I'm like, I gotta watch it.

380

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: You do.

381

With Trey.

382

Do it with Trey.

383

It'll be great.

384

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: I will.

385

. And one thing I was going to say too,

is we can probably both say a little

386

bit about this too, if you feel like

you want to say anything, but I feel

387

like for Catholic content creators,

like our purpose and our, uh, like

388

driving force behind what we're doing

is to help people have, like you said,

389

an in person experience with Jesus.

390

Like my hope that this is like

a practical way you can use it.

391

Like my hope is that like, you'll see.

392

A post in the Catholic Instagram

world that will linger with you and

393

inspire you to go sit in prayer and be

like, okay, Lord, like, what are you,

394

what do you want to say about this?

395

Like, why did this linger in my heart?

396

Why did this, you know, post about

suffering or joy or the Eucharist

397

or Mary's motherhood or whatever

it is that, you know, the post is

398

about, like, why did it linger?

399

What are you trying to draw me into?

400

And like, take it to your spiritual

life and let it bear fruit in your

401

spiritual life instead of letting

it be like any other trend that

402

you're seeing where you just scroll

past it and look to the next thing.

403

Um, so I think like we desire it to

have a little bit more intentionality

404

for a reason to make you stop, to

make you wonder, and in hopes that

405

you can draw something from it.

406

To the chapel and then let it bear

fruit in your heart instead of just let

407

it slide through like any other post

408

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Right,

and that is a beautiful hope, and one that

409

I, I personally hope every creator has.

410

And that's where it gets tricky, is

that, You can't be responsible for

411

your followers vices or what they're

going to do with your content.

412

They, there's this individual

responsibility to practice moderation,

413

that's the other thing, like, we think

about, West Coast Catholic in your store,

414

your intention with that is to share the

gospel in a tangible way to bring these

415

beautiful sacramentals into the home.

416

However, maybe someone could see

your store and use it as a lack

417

of prudence or over consumption.

418

They're buying too much or

they're not buying and gifting

419

like everything is for them.

420

They're hoarding.

421

So, But you didn't create

the shop with that intention.

422

So that's the same thing

with creatives too.

423

Like, we can create this content in

hopes that people will take it to prayer.

424

And I do trust that a lot do.

425

But how many times have you found that?

426

a recipe and you hit the little

bookmark and you save it and

427

you've never looked at it

428

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Okay, call me out, girl.

429

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

And myself, I've so much, I have

430

a whole cookbook in my saved post

431

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Oh, same.

432

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

together.

433

You know what I mean though?

434

So it's like we can have that

intention, but social media,

435

there's a new thing the next day.

436

So like, why do we need

what we saw yesterday?

437

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Uh huh.

438

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Um, slippery is that, you have to

439

have that personal responsibility.

440

It's not, you know, this creator's

fault that someone is overconsuming

441

social media, but the creator, in my

opinion, ought to have intentionality

442

and prayer behind what they're

doing so that they are not just

443

creating in order to hook someone.

444

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Absolutely.

445

I think that's so necessary.

446

Um, especially when we're using

it as a tool to evangelize.

447

We want it to be the Lord's words and

His mission, not bringing glory to us.

448

Um, okay.

449

Let's try A little bit about let's

chat a little bit about, um, if,

450

yeah, if we are using social media

poorly, like, some of these effects,

451

um, it can affect our health, our

anxiety, depression, self esteem.

452

I think a lot of us have experienced

that to an extent in some

453

way, given, like you said, we.

454

Kind of are the generation that

grew up in this digital age and

455

people younger than us even more.

456

So I didn't have Instagram or, you

know, a smartphone till I was 15,

457

but, um, that's still pretty young.

458

And I know a lot of people who.

459

I mean, yeah, started when we

were in like fifth or sixth grade.

460

So it's been around at this point

for most of our lives for people

461

that are listening probably.

462

So what can some of

those effects look like?

463

Um, how can we kind of keep an eye out

for if it's affecting us in that way?

464

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: So

465

out, and this is from McLean Hospital.

466

I did not do that on purpose.

467

I really didn't.

468

And it's not spelled the same way as my

name, but, um, they tied social media

469

use to decreased um, worse sleep, delayed

sleep, everything around sleep, which

470

we know we've heard with the screens

and the blue light and all of that.

471

That is just going to be that snowball

effect that's ultimately going to lead

472

to anxiety, depression, uh, potentially.

473

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

474

Yeah.

475

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

is going to, like, you know this too,

476

when we throw off our mental health.

477

Um, that can affect our gut and then our

gut health can affect our mental health.

478

And so it's just like this endless cycle

that, um, I think is pretty insidious.

479

And so we maybe see these effects and

we think, Oh, it's probably my diet.

480

Okay.

481

And then we don't change our social

media use or like, well, I didn't work

482

out enough, so I wasn't tired enough.

483

And that's why I didn't get to fall

asleep soon, soon enough in the night.

484

Um, I'm just going to scroll what

we, we try to, um, of come up with.

485

And of course both could be problems

in our personal health, but, um, social

486

media, yeah, it can really affect.

487

Our physical health, which then is

going to tumble into our mental health.

488

that would be my initial read.

489

But then, um, course we can get into

what each individual is kind of telling

490

themselves as they scroll on social media.

491

So whether that's like seeing

ballerina farm and it's like,

492

I'm never going to find.

493

I, what if I can't have Children?

494

What if I don't make enough

as that family makes?

495

Am I going to be happy?

496

So then we can get into the

mental spiral of, um, what seeing

497

social media does to our personal

thoughts and our personal value,

498

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

499

And I think it's good to remember

that we're All body mind and soul.

500

And you kind of touched on this without

explicitly saying that, like, they're not

501

separate entities that do that are, that

are just like isolated from each other,

502

everything we do body, mind, soul somehow

informs the other and affects the other.

503

And so I know that like

maybe when I was in college.

504

Before I was a missionary, this

is something I learned like

505

as a missionary in college.

506

I was like, yeah, like the things

that I consume, the things that I

507

watch, like don't actually affect me

because like, I'm stronger than that.

508

Like I can be on social media.

509

I can follow all types of people on

social media, like all types of account.

510

It doesn't matter.

511

I can watch anything because like, I'm a

good Catholic and like, it's just I know

512

how to not let it affect me and that's

just naive and that's just not true.

513

Right.

514

And you start to see how the things you

see on social media or on TV or whatever

515

the people you follow, um, how I feel

like what I was noticing, like how it

516

informed my thoughts started to teach me.

517

Yeah, no, actually it, it clearly

did affect my mind, which then can

518

affect the desires of my soul, which

can affect how I'm living physically

519

in the world and affect my body.

520

Um, and so keeping that in mind too, that

like, it's all, it's all interconnected

521

and, um, we can't kid ourselves.

522

It's not going to affect

another part of our life.

523

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: right?

524

No, I think that's where.

525

Um, is going to creep in and not

to over spiritualize, but, and you

526

could, maybe we could just say our

littleness is going to creep in of like.

527

It's really not a big deal this

is like the largest the the

528

Technological change in history.

529

It just completely spiked when we hit that

21st century There was an unprecedented

530

technological advance that happened.

531

And so it is important.

532

know this will affect my life.

533

This will affect my relationship

with God and my Catholic identity.

534

I think you were asking like,

how does poor use of social

535

media affect our mental health?

536

What about like our health as a Catholic?

537

Like.

538

media and Catholic social media,

we cannot say is for everyone.

539

We cannot say you should be there.

540

You have to be on it.

541

Like that's where you need to be.

542

No, no, no.

543

There are some people who I definitely

feel like should be on it and

544

should be consuming and creating it.

545

Um, but it's not for everyone or

else monks would be way out of whack

546

and not on it Okay, think of, the

social media or just Instagram realm

547

as this like digital diocese that

has no one really like in charge.

548

There's no like bishop of the

digital world, you know what I mean?

549

No

550

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Wow.

551

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

calling the shots, keeping people in line

552

with church teaching and fact checking

things according to the catechism.

553

It is free reign.

554

And so,

555

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

556

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Catholic on social media, you're going

557

to be getting content about that.

558

everything Catholic.

559

And some of those things might be

false, not on purpose, but we're not

560

church fathers, we're not theologians.

561

We're doing our best and

like sharing our testimony.

562

Um, but some people will

take things as writing.

563

Mari is Catholic.

564

And so what she said

about this topic is what

565

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Sure.

566

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

believes,

567

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Uh huh.

568

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

which is where it can get really tricky.

569

Yes.

570

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: which I

like that you brought that up because as

571

a consumer, hopefully that like opens our

eyes a little bit more to use the Catholic

572

social media well, which we'll get into

in a second where it's like, okay, I can

573

draw inspiration from these creators.

574

I can learn from their testimonies,

but like, get to know your own faith.

575

Don't allow like the creator

to become the catechism.

576

You know what I mean?

577

Like the creator.

578

Isn't the church teaching isn't

like the law isn't the catechism.

579

They might have drawn from it.

580

We hope so.

581

But at the same time, like form

your own soul, form your own mind

582

and your faith and let that be the

starting point that inspires it.

583

But don't let it be the end.

584

Don't let it be like the

resource you're drawing from.

585

Um, yeah, so great.

586

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Yeah, love it.

587

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Well, it's a great point.

588

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

589

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Um,

how let's turn the narrative around.

590

Let's talk about like, how

can someone have a better

591

relationship with social media?

592

We've all experienced

these negative effects.

593

And like you said, social media might

be great for some, some might recognize,

594

like, it's actually not good for my

life, but I think there's a happy

595

medium for a lot of us where like, we

can learn to use it well as a tool.

596

We can learn to grow in moderation.

597

Um, how Can someone have a better

relationship with social media?

598

What are some healthy habits, some

healthy boundaries that individuals

599

can implement, uh, with social media?

600

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Making intentional decisions.

601

Like, when you are making a decision,

having, having that conscious choice

602

behind it, and knowing, okay, I am,

I am choosing the, I don't know,

603

the Ollipop instead of the Diet Coke

because there's no aspartame in it.

604

Um, like, we're doing that intentionally.

605

Um, and so the same can

go with social media.

606

So, when we feel more, um, in tune and

in control of our use of social media,

607

that's when it can really flourish.

608

there are a million ways to have a

good relationship with social media.

609

That's the cool thing.

610

You can invite Jesus into it and say, I

really don't want to scroll for too long.

611

Could you please, like, I don't

know, bring someone into my life

612

that'll help me live more presently.

613

Could you, um, like bring me into more

habits and then something, not just

614

waiting for God to, you know, do it for

you, but, I would say my first thing

615

is going to be going to confession.

616

I think a lot of.

617

examinations need to start

including overuse of media.

618

Whether that's YouTube and it's

like, okay, well I'm Facebook.

619

Watching YouTube for hours and hours

or having it on your entire workday.

620

You have that autoplay on and

it's always in the background.

621

need to start confessing to it's

like split, um, attention or really

622

not being present to the tasks that

we've been given by God, um, or

623

overuse or addiction of social media.

624

Confess it in the confessional,

ask your priest, what can I do?

625

And overall, when you're

going to be growing in virtue.

626

This is going to be not as big of an issue

because you're getting closer to Christ.

627

And so that should also affect any

other like addictive tendencies or

628

habitual vice you, um, see in yourself.

629

So it, pray about it.

630

Um, receive from your Bible before

you're receiving from Catholic Instagram.

631

up a Bible first.

632

This is so hard for me.

633

Um, with like nursing, it's so much

easier for me to have one hand than two.

634

And that's the first thing

that I do when I wake up.

635

And so, um, yeah, receiving from God,

the Eucharist, Jesus, the mass, the

636

physical, tangible sacramentals are

infinitely better than any photo of.

637

That's sacramental or a

recounting of a mass experience.

638

And so receiving from the incarnate

God first, then going to social media.

639

Um, I think, yeah, we

talked about a detox.

640

If there are people that you don't,

that you know, like you tend to

641

scroll a lot on their page, or you're

really intrigued with them in an

642

unhealthy way, or in a way that.

643

start to tell yourself negative

things about your life.

644

Um, stop following them.

645

Doesn't matter if it's a friend or

an influencer, stop following them.

646

It's not a big deal.

647

Um, I think, uh, a couple apps that

are in place, there's one called

648

clear space, which, um, helps you

with time limits and intentionality.

649

Um, there are the.

650

In system, um, time, time

restrictions that you can like

651

put the iPhone itself has,

652

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

653

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

the time limits, and make

654

sure you don't override them.

655

I have an hour time limit on my

Instagram my husband set my passcode.

656

still, to this day, do

not know that passcode.

657

So I have to go to him, a physical person

and say, Hey, I did run out of time.

658

I did want to post this one more

thing, or maybe I ran out of time

659

because I was editing this reel

for about 20 minutes on Instagram.

660

you put like 10 more minutes on it?

661

And so you're interacting with someone

who has your sainthood in mind, whether

662

that's a friend, family member, spouse.

663

Um, yeah, those are the

first that come to mind.

664

Watch the social dilemma.

665

Like you, it's not necessary.

666

I won't say it's necessary.

667

But in some way researching what

social media does to people,

668

because it's different from any

other form of technology where like

669

the book is a form of technology.

670

It made information easier to access.

671

And I, I know that the book, when it

was introduced and written word was

672

like, Oh my gosh, people are going

to be have their heads in books.

673

And they're not going to be

interacting with society.

674

Compared to now, it's like,

my gosh, a book is so holy.

675

Like you're reading a

book that is amazing.

676

Um, so if we don't see, um, and become

sober and awake to the effects of social

677

media, then it's going to be a lot easier

to just brush it off as what society does.

678

And we all just scroll while

we're with each other now.

679

So let's keep doing it.

680

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

681

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

So I hope those are helpful.

682

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: They

were, yeah, I think what I really

683

love that you said were kind of like,

sometimes we, like I said, we need to

684

like, just not be naive about where we're

at and like, not kid ourselves and like

685

those, like, physical blockers, like

are good, like, to actually like, put.

686

A time limit on your phone.

687

And if you need someone to hold you

accountable and have a passcode, great.

688

That's what makes it easy.

689

You know, like I said earlier about like,

if I've given up social media for lunch

690

or if I'm fasting for it, like I'll,

I'll often just leave the app there.

691

Cause I'm like, Oh, it's fine.

692

I won't open it.

693

But it's like, clearly.

694

We're not at that place yet.

695

Clearly like we need the extra step

of removing the app of setting a

696

time limit of having accountability

with a friend or a spouse.

697

Um, and that's okay.

698

I wouldn't say that's

something to feel bad about.

699

It's like, we're all, we all were kind

of just like put in this situation

700

because this is the time we grew up in.

701

And so, um, I wouldn't say like it's

necessarily our fault that we got

702

here, but it is our responsibility

to acknowledge like anything in

703

our life that we aren't using in

moderation because we're all trying

704

to live Christ centered lives.

705

And so this goes for anything that you

feel like is becoming a vice of some sort.

706

Like it's okay to have

really strong boundaries.

707

It's okay to have accountability and have

a friend kind of walk with you in that.

708

And it's really good.

709

Um, the other thing I was going to

say too, that I find helpful is kind

710

of having a standard in your life.

711

This is what I try to do of like, I

won't pick up my phone first thing in

712

the morning and it won't be like the

last thing that I see when I go to bed

713

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

714

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

that having that mentality every day.

715

Helps you realize how much you reach

for it and kind of helps you have kind

716

of like that self check of like Why

am I rolling over and grabbing this?

717

Okay, maybe like let's not sleep

with our phone next to our head

718

Which already is pretty bad for you.

719

So like let's put it on the other side

outside the room, you know And then just

720

doing that makes it so it's also not the

last thing you do before bed and we're

721

not stuck in like a scroll before bed and

having blue light affect our circadian

722

rhythm and Hormones and other things.

723

Um, and so replace that

with a short prayer.

724

Like when you get up, instead of reaching

for your phone, have that initial like

725

desire to reach now that you've heard

this, hopefully you can't forget it.

726

Um, you just remember like, Okay.

727

I'm reaching for something.

728

Like, let me reach for the Lord.

729

And it doesn't have to be a

big 30 minute prayer time.

730

Like just let it be like a quick

morning offering of like, Lord, thank

731

you for the rest that you gave me.

732

Like I give this day to you.

733

I entrust it to you.

734

And like, may your will be done.

735

And before you go to bed, instead of like

falling asleep as you're scrolling, like.

736

If you feel like you need to

reach for something again, reach

737

for the Lord, give him thanks for

the day and ask for good rest.

738

Um, and so I feel like

that's a good standard.

739

I will say, I feel like we should all

have, we should all work towards having

740

the Lord, um, have our first and last

moments of the day instead of our device.

741

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Absolutely.

742

Yeah.

743

Because imagine if, if we see ourselves

as, Catholic creators or, um, consumers

744

on social media, the disciples going out

kind of before they chatted with Jesus as

745

they were camping and traveling together.

746

they just like went and evangelized

and came back and were like,

747

Oh my gosh, I didn't even know

that you were here, Jesus.

748

Like, I just did all this stuff for you.

749

And he's like, why weren't you with me?

750

You know what I mean?

751

So can, we can do that same thing.

752

Like we go out and we're doing, doing,

doing, and we create so much for Jesus

753

and do not even rest with him in any way.

754

So that you added that.

755

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yeah.

756

Um, last thing you did mention the

examination of, or no, you mentioned

757

bringing this into confession and I know

you made an examination of conscience

758

for media use, um, a few years ago.

759

Tell us more about that.

760

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yes.

761

So I created this with, um, a friend

Mackenzie, who, was a missionary at the

762

same time as I was, and we were talking

about this topic a lot and it was really.

763

You've alluded to this, but

we are really trailblazing.

764

We think, okay, social media has

been around for a minute, but

765

I mean, 20 years is really not

where everyone is trailblazing.

766

Everyone's figuring out what media does.

767

We can see some of the effects,

but nothing like What we see to

768

be the effect of the television,

which was introduced longer ago.

769

So we're still learning a lot of things.

770

so we're talking about that and, um,

we desire to have, um, a very deep,

771

detailed examine about social media.

772

And so it's in three parts.

773

Um, because there are different questions

that creatives creators should be asking.

774

So people who are putting out content,

people who are consuming content, then

775

everyone who is just kind of, Using

and on social media in any generic way.

776

Um, because they do overlap and,

um, pretty much all creators are

777

going to be consumers, but not

all consumers will be creating.

778

So, um, there are many questions.

779

It's pinned onto my Instagram

profile, a Catholic combo.

780

It's the first post and,

um, it's pretty vintage.

781

Like it w we made it a little bit ago.

782

Um, But it has been super helpful

for so many people to ask themselves

783

questions and to ask Jesus questions

that they've never considered media, even

784

coming into the realm of or affecting.

785

So.

786

Um, yeah, hopefully it's just a

good tool that you can use and,

787

um, share it with whoever you want.

788

Um, it should be really helpful.

789

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Yeah, I'm going to go back and

790

read it because it's so good.

791

Okay.

792

Anything else that you want to share

with our listeners before we wrap up?

793

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Um, I think, I think sometimes when

794

I, I love, love, love talking about

this topic, like if I were to write

795

a book, it would be about this topic

because it is so important to me.

796

And especially now that I'm raising.

797

I just think about where social media

will be when he starts using it.

798

Um, and so I think sometimes it can

feel like, oh, it's a ton of, you know,

799

boomers and millennials that are anti

social media and they want the kids to

800

get off their phones and all this stuff.

801

there is a huge movement in Gen Z.

802

Um, the log off movement also

is one that I wanted to mention.

803

Of people and young adults in our

generation, realizing that they

804

want the incarnate experience.

805

And even if it's Catholic, we're

not even talking about that.

806

are recognizing this is not.

807

As fruitful and as joyful as the

influencer experiencing it in real time

808

of what I'm looking at on social media.

809

Does that make sense?

810

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Yeah, like living through the

811

influencer you love to follow versus

actually living life yourself.

812

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Exactly.

813

Yep.

814

And so I am perfectly content being

the annoying, uh, like old Gen Z.

815

I am the oldest Gen Zer that

exists because I'm born in 97.

816

Um, I'm content being that person and

saying, Hey, this is going to affect us

817

for generations, what if we just did it a

little more intentionally and also there

818

can be so much good that comes from it.

819

So I don't want it to sound like this

doom and gloom message of social media,

820

but I do think that we're not super, um,

awake to what happen with social media

821

if we're striving for sainthood, then.

822

Knowing that information, I do find it

our responsibility and duty to help people

823

get to heaven and therefore bringing

up things that are roadblocks to that,

824

into that relationship with Christ.

825

And this is a huge one.

826

That's very.

827

Slight and very, um, sneaky because

it doesn't feel bad, especially when

828

you're only consuming Catholic content.

829

So, just maybe asking yourself, like,

if you feel, uh, You know, more joyful

830

or more known and seen, um, creating or

consuming Catholic content online than

831

you do in person, because the minute that

we lose our love and adoration for the

832

mass and for that, Repetition over and

over ever ancient, ever new experience.

833

Um, and we prefer graphics every

day of scripture and here's a new

834

monstrance and here's a new video and

dah, dah, dah, dah, that Catholicism.

835

Then we're really in a deep and we

need Jesus to completely destroy

836

like that desire that we have to

see him digitally versus person.

837

So, um, there's a lot to chew on, but.

838

I love social media.

839

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Ends with I love social media.

840

And you know, that's just the

essence of this whole conversation.

841

It's a very powerful conversation.

842

One that I think not

many people are having.

843

And so I'm glad that we are having it.

844

It needs to be had.

845

Um, it's.

846

Almost just like you, you can tell

me really mean it because like,

847

we're both content creators on

Instagram and like generally a

848

content creator probably wouldn't

tell you get off your phone, right?

849

Like they would want you to consume

their stuff, but we genuinely

850

care about your statehood and

your relationship with Christ.

851

And that comes before anything you consume

on Instagram, even if it's Catholic.

852

So ultimately I think what we want

people to walk away with is like,

853

yes, social media inherently, like,

doesn't have to be a bad thing.

854

It's kind of like the way we are using it.

855

Is it using us?

856

Are we using it?

857

How can we learn to really like

render it as a tool in our life and

858

let it go and let it be what it is.

859

It's just an app on our phone.

860

Like it doesn't have to be more than that.

861

We don't have to make it

more than it really is.

862

So hopefully this is

an invitation for you.

863

For all of us to really rearrange

our relationship with social media,

864

hopefully, and build some health,

healthier habits and allow it to be the

865

good tool and place of connection that

we have experienced it to be at times.

866

Um, and that I think that it

can truly has the power to be.

867

Um, so before we close out, uh, where

can our listeners learn more about you?

868

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Um, definitely on Instagram.

869

My handle is a Catholic Convo

um, That's pretty much it.

870

My, my website is a little bit of a

museum, so you can find a couple blog

871

posts on there, but I'm really focused

on my motherhood, uh, in this season.

872

So find me on Instagram.

873

I'll chat with you about

social media anytime.

874

Um, send me any voice memos or

questions that you have in my DMs,

875

and I would love to hear from you.

876

Speak into more of this topic if you want.

877

mari-wagner_1_08-01-2024_091105: Yes.

878

Oh, well, so good.

879

Thank you, Matt, for coming on today.

880

It was so good to have you.

881

maclaine-noah_1_08-01-2024_091105:

Thanks Mari.