Navigating Codependency in Coaching Relationships
In this episode, the hosts dive into the topic of codependent clients and coaches with saviour complexes.
John and Angie share personal experiences, address the importance of setting healthy boundaries, and discuss the potential pitfalls of seeking or becoming a reliance centre for clients.
They further explore how unhealthy dependencies can form, the need for coaches to empower rather than disempower, and the ethics involved in maintaining professional coaching relationships.
Our hosts also emphasize the significance of self-awareness and continual personal development as essential elements in effective coaching.
Do you have questions about coaching clients, coaching business or comments on the themes of The Coaching Clinic? Leave us a voicemail. It's free to do and if we like it, we might just feature you on the show. Go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast
00:00 Introduction: The Big Decision
01:07 Discussing Codependent Clients
01:21 Personal Experiences with Codependency
03:24 The Savior Complex in Coaching
04:05 Setting Boundaries with Clients
05:32 The Role of NLP and Hypnosis
06:46 Empowering Clients vs. Fixing Them
15:58 Challenges with Difficult Clients
18:00 The Importance of Healthy Boundaries
29:14 Concluding Thoughts and Next Steps
Angie,
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:Angie: John,
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:John: I've got a big decision to make.
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:I don't know what to do.
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:Angie: what's the big decision?
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:John: I don't know who to vote for
in the Eurovision Song Contest.
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:Angie: In the what?
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:John: The Eurovision Song Contest, but
all the European countries and Australia
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:for some reason compete to win a trophy.
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:Angie: Oh, John, I don't
think anyone cares.
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:John: Angie, the gays care, the gays care.
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:Let's start the show.
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:Angie, we've been talking about
approaching this topic for a while.
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:It's been on our list of ones to get to.
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:And today we're going to have a bit
of chat about codependent clients.
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:and coaches with saviour complexes.
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:Interesting topic.
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:And I have some personal
experience of this.
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:On both sides of having codependent
clients and having a bit of that
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:saviour complex going on, certainly
in my early days of coaching.
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:And it took me a while, but what,
where do you stand with this though?
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:Have you had some experience as well?
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:Angie: Oh, gosh.
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:, yes, I definitely have.
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:I think the savior complex, like
yourself, I definitely experienced
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:earlier on, but tell me, I would
love to hear your perspective.
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:So tell me about one of the times
that you've won of, cause I'm assuming
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:there's a couple, but where you
had felt that or experienced that.
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:This way, cause I think there's a lot
of people listening that are like, what
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:the hell does that, I can kind of figure
it out, but what does that even mean?
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:John: Sure.
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:Okay.
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:So, here's a situation I found myself
in, in my very early days, I was one
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:of my very first paying clients as
a coach and really liked her, super
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:nice client and professional woman
and really wanted to make some life
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:changes and some working on some growth.
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:It was pretty general stuff, I suppose.
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:Where we found ourselves getting was.
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:She would be this is in days
before text messaging, God, I'm
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:old but she, I would be getting
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:Angie: he's talking smoke signals folks.
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:Sorry, go ahead.
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:John: not far off voicemails.
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:So I'd be getting voicemails, I'd be
getting emails from her and sometimes
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:quite sort of late in the day
phone calls that, what should I do?
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:What should I do?
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:This situation has come
up, what should I do?
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:Got to even a point where like at first
I thought this was just one of those
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:things with coaching And then at some
point I started realizing the things
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:that she was calling me out for decisions
She's making or decisions that she
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:should be able to make by herself And
what was I doing intervening in these
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:kinds of decisions that she was making?
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:Not that I was telling her what to do.
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:I was trying to go, well, what
do you think you should do?
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:What's good?
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:What are your options here?
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:Which one's most attractive?
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:It was all that kind of thing.
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:But I should not have been
that available to the client.
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:I know that part of the reason why I
was doing it is because I felt it was
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:my responsibility to fix my client.
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:And that I could do that as a
coach, I could fix my clients
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:and be like their savior.
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:I could be their Superman
and fly in and save the day.
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:That was pretty much what I had in
my head and that situation and a few
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:other things really woke me up to,
okay, it's not my job to fix them.
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:And this is unhealthy.
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:That's what first thought.
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:This is unhealthy that they're
calling me or feel that they can
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:contact me anytime to ask me.
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:Sometimes just stupid questions
that they should be able to
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:figure out for themselves.
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:Angie: So I think there's
layers to what you just shared.
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:I don't think I ever experienced
the, Hey, I am available.
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:I think I always set boundaries and
that was just from my previous life
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:of I needed to have the me, like I
needed to separate myself because.
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:I used to make the joke in my
corporate life and say, Oh, there's
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:no MD at the end of my last name.
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:There's no emergency.
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:So I think that carried over, but
I definitely think I had a I was
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:going to use the word insane, but
I think that's appropriate for it.
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:But I definitely had this kind
of like you, I felt like I wasn't
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:doing my job if I couldn't fix them.
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:And I don't know how long I sat in
that space, but I could remember coming
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:into sessions and being disappointed
if they didn't feel better, right?
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:If they didn't move past the whatever,
fill in the blank, whatever the
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:challenge of the day, the challenge
of the week was And I don't know
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:how long that lasted for me, but it
was definitely the wrong mindset.
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:Of course I came into it with
my heart I want them to move
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:forward, I want them to grow.
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:But then, I think, again, I was taking
it back upon myself and taking that
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:responsibility that it was my job to
do that, which there might be people
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:listening going, well, hell, you're
the coach, it was your job, but
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:not in the way that I was doing it.
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:Right.
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:John: We talked to previous on show
that I had gotten into doing more NLP
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:kind of stuff as well, so I was doing
a lot of NP therapy work with people,
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:and in that particular, very much
felt that it was my responsibility
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:to fix my client's problems.
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:To solve their issues for them,
because that is essentially
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:what they're paying me for.
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:They're paying me to solve
their problem for them.
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:Like, I need to stop smoking,
help me stop smoking, or I,
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:I've got an obsessive compulsive
disorder, help me get out of that.
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:Whatever it was I thought,
oh, NLP could help them.
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:I can heal them.
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:I can cure them, for want of a
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:Angie: You're putting your hands on
their head and being like, you're healed.
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:Not really though, right?
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:John: been an interesting, we could go
super deep on this, interestingly enough,
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:because my, my opinions of now are sort
of NLP and hypnosis is that it's not
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:something really that you do to someone.
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:It's something that you help
people do for themselves.
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:Even then, like hypnosis is something
that somebody has to elect to that.
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:If you don't want to go into a trance,
you're not going to go into a trance.
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:You have to put yourself in the trance.
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:You have to give yourself permission to
be responsive and to trust the person
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:who's guiding you on that journey.
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:And so I'd like to say also
all hypnosis is self hypnosis.
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:To some degree all coaching
is self coaching as well.
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:That you want to get people in a position
where they can figure out what to do for
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:themselves because it's not coaching.
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:If I tell you what to do
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:Angie (2): Well, we had that conversation
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:eleven where it's like, Hey,
what's the difference between being
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:consulted, being a consultant, a coach.
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:And I think that the mindset really should
be, you're not there to fix anybody.
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:We're not there to fix anybody.
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:We're really there to.
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:Heighten awareness and show people the
way show them that there is a forward and
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:not a stock and that i'm not the end all
because we're not supposed to keep clients
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:forever I will say to you I have some
clients that i've had for five seven years
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:now eight years even and the beauty of the
work that i'm doing with them is that we
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:can myself and that client can look back
and say, wow, look at the journey, right?
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:We're not just having expensive
cups of coffee, right?
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:There's actual movement.
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:There's actual application of
the work that we're doing that
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:they're putting into their lives.
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:Now, I don't know how long I'll have
those people as clients, but for now
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:the work is working so it's ongoing.
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:But the idea isn't to.
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:Do that forever, not for me anyway
maybe there's people out there that
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:are like I want the clients for life.
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:It's a whole different episode
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:John: Yeah, I, yeah, maybe that
is something we need to get to at
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:another episode, but I know for me,
I, growing up, I very much wanted
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:to be a person of significance.
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:Yeah.
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:I used to read.
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:I used to read a lot of comic books.
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:I love super still do love all
the superhero stuff Yes, I and you
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:can if you can see my background.
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:There's a picture of superman right
behind me There's another wall.
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:There's wonder woman.
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:I've got doctor here and goodness day
to us I still love all that stuff But I
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:also had bought into wanting to be that
like I think I really wanted to be Spider
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:man when I was growing up or the flash.
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:It was another, as I
wanted to be a superhero.
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:And I think I brought some of that
with me still into my adult life as a
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:coach or thinking, coaching to some
degrees is kind of a superpower and all
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:the NLP stuff feels like superpowers.
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:It feels like stuff that
not everyone can do.
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:And not saying I've got like power
hungry or anything like that with it.
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:But I definitely felt that
it gave me some significance.
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:And so there was a degree to which
I bought into that and was partly
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:responsible for allowing those dependency
situations to arise and to continue,
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:because I didn't draw the boundaries.
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:Part of me wanted that.
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:Part of me wanted people looking up to
me and putting me on that sort of, Oh,
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:you saved my life kind of pedestal,
and it was like, that's not healthy.
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:And then that's not something we want.
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:Angie: what was let me ask you though,
but let me ask you this I think
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:this is really important for people
listening What was the turning point?
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:Where did you or how did you find
that awareness where you were like?
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:Oh, wait a minute.
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:This isn't healthy There is
a different way to do this.
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:What was that turning point for you?
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:John: that I should not be in
a position where I'm making
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:decisions for other people.
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:That they are perfectly
capable of making themselves.
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:I shouldn't be there for somebody else.
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:To have to tell them what to
do, that they, that I recognized
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:how disempowering that was.
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:And I think that was the thing of coaching
is supposed to be about empowering
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:your clients, not disempowering them.
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:And so, there was a way covered.
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:It wasn't just the one client.
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:There were other things that, there
were boundary issues with a few other
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:clients I had, that I had to recognize.
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:And I also had some of those boundary
issues with a few friends as well.
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:I have to tell you, it didn't take me very
long to start putting boundaries in place.
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:I had to, unfortunately, stop working
with those clients because I couldn't
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:fix the damage that had been done.
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:I'd already created an unhealthy client
relationship and I couldn't pull it back.
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:I didn't know how to at that stage.
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:Maybe I could now, but At that
time, I didn't know how to do that.
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:So the
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:Angie: I think that's really, wow,
that's like a super wow moment.
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:I don't think a lot of people
could honestly admit to
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:saying, hey, you know what?
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:This was definitely not the right
approach and it, and I love, love
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:that you said, like you created
that, I disempowered them, right?
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:And I realized that I should
be doing the opposite of that.
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:That's huge.
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:I'm bowing.
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:That's a great acknowledgement.
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:I have to say.
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:John: I appreciate that.
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:It didn't feel so good at the time.
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:I have to tell you I felt pretty rotten.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I felt rotten at the time.
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:I had to take the go cap in hand to
my clients and say, look, I haven't
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:served you very well here as a coach.
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:I'm responsible for having
created this situation and here's
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:why it's not serving you or me.
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:Yeah, that was hard, but it was important
and it was the right thing to do.
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:And I'm very, I'm very big on my ethics.
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:I'm very, I like to be a very
responsible operator and that
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:didn't feel responsible to me.
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:So yeah when things switched for me I
think I also recognized one of my best
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:friends wanted me to coach her and I
said, look, we can do a bit of coaching,
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:but then I could see that whole pedestal
thing coming up there as well as like,
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:no, the boundaries aren't right here.
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:It's not going to work.
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:I still, yeah, you still see
these situations, but when
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:you're in it it's tough.
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:It's tough to sometimes admit
to ourselves as well, that I'm
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:partly responsible for this.
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:But it's absolutely essential
in my development as a coach
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:I fixed those boundaries.
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:I had to fix the boundaries
with some friends.
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:It cost me a few friendships,
not, thankfully none of my
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:closest friends they got it.
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:But clients, yeah, it certainly
cost me a few clients.
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:It cost me a bit of maybe a bit of
self esteem, but in the long run,
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:John: for it.
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:Yeah.
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:Angie: think that, sometimes we put, too
much pressure on ourselves that we have
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:to get it absolutely right every time.
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:When you're in a coaching call
that is being run organically,
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:I'm going to say this, you have
no idea what's about to happen.
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:You have no idea really what's going
to come up because you know what, when
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:I set intention or when I have caught
myself setting too much, I'm going to
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:emphasize too much intention around
a session that would throw me off.
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:And honestly, It's like, okay, let me
take a step back and let me, oh, I still
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:need to be the guide, the pace car,
if you will, but I need to let this
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:start to flow organically and not set
an expectation because that's not fair.
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:Now.
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:That can definitely create a little
bit of the floor moving kind of thing
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:in the funhouse because You know,
or maybe you touched upon topics or
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:pain points for clients And maybe
them coming into the next session or
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:two or three is an avoidance, right?
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:They come up with other things
consciously or not To avoid that.
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:So you as the coach, I think still need
to pay attention, but I really, I just do.
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:I feel like that, setting too much,
there's that fine line of setting
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:the intention around the session.
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:I think the only intention that
I allow myself to set now is that
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:I need to remain open, right?
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:I need to still be aware bird's eye
view of what's going on, but at the
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:same time, I need to remain open.
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:I'm still sitting here
thinking about times where,
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:and I'm laughing out loud to myself going,
Oh, maybe it happened more than I thought.
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:But not where it was telling
people what to do, but giving
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:them too much of the what ifs.
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:Cause then I thought if I'm just
giving them options and I'm opening
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:up that door for them, I'm still doing
well and getting a little too deep.
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:So you can still ask.
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:So what if you did this?
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:Okay.
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:Or what if it was different?
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:What would that look like?
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:That's a different question than
saying what if you did a B or C?
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:Because again, still setting
them up for a reliance, right?
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:Instead of them saying, okay, let
me ask myself the big, the million
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:dollar question in this scenario.
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:So I think that dependency, that
codependency can absolutely creep in easy.
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:It's like slick, slippery slope.
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:John: There's an attractiveness
to it as well from a coach's side.
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:This is one of the reasons why I think
I have a very deep fascination with
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:the tools of influence and persuasion.
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:And and I've spent a lot of time
educating myself on those and still do
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:as I still try and read and learn as much
as possible because it's fascinating.
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:But I could see the appeal of
being that sort of guru figure.
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:The person is like, I rely on them.
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:They had, they're the
person with all the answers.
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:Whereas now I am where I am wary as
hell about anyone who sets themselves
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:up in that kind of position because
nobody does have all the answers and
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:nobody is so perfect or knowledgeable
to that they know everything or that
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:they can give you all the right answers
that there is no one person in all
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:of history who has that regard and
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:Angie: I agree.
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:Listen.
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:Yeah.
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:John: but it's true, it's true
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:Angie (2): Well, think of it this way.
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:I think that it comes up or it can
come up even for an experienced coach.
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:When we have a difficult client, right?
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:Somebody who just isn't seeing movement
and they start up more frustrated and
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:maybe they, again, the scenarios can
vary, after several sessions of somebody
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:not making any kind of movement, you
really have to step back as a coach
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:and say, am I challenging enough?
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:Are they avoiding it?
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:You have to really dive in.
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:And I think it's interesting
because I, from the very beginning,
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:we talked about this, right?
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:When we have that first call and
I ask people, why are you here?
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:What kind of coaching
do you think you want?
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:Because I want to get an idea of
the picture, vision that they have
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:now, that doesn't mean I'm going to
step into that and be like, Oh, let
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:me be this, let me fill the mold.
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:That's not it.
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:But I need to understand.
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:What their perspective of what a
coach should be doing for them.
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:So if that's not in alignment at the
beginning right at the beginning I
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:either just state that or I say hey,
this is who I am and what I do I
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:don't think we're a good fit, right?
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:That's that's a tough truth at
the very beginning is to turn away
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:a client and say hey Perhaps you
know John is a better fit for you.
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:Have at it But knowing that, knowing
that as you're progressing through the
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:timeline of this journey with them I
think it's really important to be able to
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:stay true to getting I guess I'm getting
a little in the weeds here, but I'm I'm
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:envisioning this, I'm envisioning this
process, and I'm seeing times in my career
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:where You know, it was not easy because
I let the client maybe run the show a
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:little bit too much, you know what I mean?
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:Instead keeping my hands on the wheel, I
let go for a little bit and said, here.
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:And that has, I wouldn't say
gotten me into trouble, but it's
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:definitely Warranted some reflection
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:.
John: Yeah, I appreciate that.
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:Do you know what here's where
else it cropped up for me as well.
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:Noticing that the boundary stuff was
so important here was finding myself in
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:situations like if you are the person
that has the answers for your clients.
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:What do you do in those times when
you don't have the answer for them?
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:And so, you know, I was talking before
like I had a, one particular client it
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:was a bit of a nightmare client situation
for me and all sorts of problems came up
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:because of this but there was an element
to which her expectation was that I could
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:fix her maybe some part of me thought
that I could and so she was coming back
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:week after week not taking any action
not doing any of the things that she said
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:she wanted to do and coming to me for
answers as to why that wasn't happening.
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:And I was trying to fill that void of
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:answers, like again pulling,
stuff out my butt, trying to
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:come up with answers for her.
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:But okay.
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:And week after week, the same thing
again and again, until it got to a point
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:where it's like, enough's enough here.
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:Like, if you're not going to take
action, why are we doing this?
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:Led to all sorts of problems beyond that
which I've talked about maybe before, but
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:just unhealthy, unworkable, unrealistic.
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:Unless you actually want to be a cult
leader, even if it's a cult of two people,
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:Angie: don't know that about me?
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:No, I'm joking.
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:I'm sorry.
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:Go ahead.
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:John: You can have a cult
of one person in your cult.
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:You know, it's like your coaching client.
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:It could be your partner.
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:It could be, if you are exerting undue
influence over someone else and they
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:are allowing you to do that, or even
giving you permission to do that.
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:It's a cult situation because you are
maybe controlling their information.
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:You're controlling their decisions.
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:You're somebody controlling
their emotional output.
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:You're controlling how they spend their
time or who even who they associate
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:with that starts to look like a cult.
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:And so yeah, this is something
we should be very, very wary of.
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:Nobody should be putting themselves
in that position where you are trying
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:to fill the void for other people.
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:or responsible for having the answers
for them because it will never be fully
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:satisfactory and you do end up in a
situation where you are exerting power
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:and undue influence over someone else.
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:Angie: you know, it's
interesting and I Agree with you.
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:It's interesting.
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:I was thinking about those times when
you finish up a round of coaching
375
:with a client and it's time to decide
whether they should move forward
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:or whether it's time to pluck them
out of the nest kind of a thing.
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:And I've had many occasions where I've
had people say to me, Oh my gosh, Angie,
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:what am I going to do without you?
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:And then I have a session around that
and go wait a minute, what do you mean?
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:Let's talk about that.
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:Because I think sometimes, it's an
initial mindset, that once they get
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:out of it, once they get over that
piece, they'll be like, it's okay.
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:It's like having your
favorite teacher in school.
384
:I don't want to leave.
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:I remember crying.
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:They were great.
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:Mrs.
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:Klein cried.
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:I didn't want to leave her.
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:She was amazing.
391
:But that didn't mean I was
going to sit in third grade
392
:for the rest of my life either.
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:Although there are some that might
say you should have stayed there.
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:You're still too silly for us.
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:But no, but seriously, so it's really
that gauge of saying wait a second.
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:Why would you say that?
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:Why do you think you made me?
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:And then sometimes at the end of that
conversation, it's just you know what?
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:I've really so valued the work we've done.
400
:And honestly too, if I get to that point
when I have that conversation, if I
401
:don't have a clear vision for what can
be next for them, I cannot work with
402
:them and I might say, you know what,
go take three, six months, even a year.
403
:Go do the things.
404
:And if you want to come and do
coaching, you want to come back to
405
:coaching, then come back because
there, there's the empowerment.
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:That's what makes you a great
coach is being able to illustrate
407
:to your clients that, they've
made some really great progress.
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:Now, There are definitely moments
where it takes some clients longer to
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:start allowing the onion to peel back.
410
:So maybe it's not until several
sessions in that you start to do
411
:some heavy lifting, heavy work.
412
:And you might want to then of
course continue because there's
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:specific work to be done.
414
:Momentum is now in place
and you want to do that.
415
:But I also know, and
I'm going to say this.
416
:Sorry, I'm not going to mention any names,
but I know of coaches that create that
417
:urgency to get people to sign back up.
418
:And I think that's shit.
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:I really do.
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:I think that's really shitty.
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:I don't think it's fair.
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:And I guess it's why sometimes it's
like in any profession, people go I
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:spent 40, 000 and I'm still not better.
424
:John: That's what, yeah, that's
what we're talking about, right?
425
:I mean that this is partly why some people
have so much shit about sales, isn't it?
426
:Is that they think some look, some people
think that's what sales is, getting people
427
:to buy something that they don't really
want through emotional manipulation.
428
:And sometimes that happens,
but that's not sales.
429
:That's a con.
430
:This is not sales.
431
:Sales should be about service.
432
:Like giving people, helping people get
what they actually do want or get to
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:the right service and products for them.
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:If not, you've been essentially
you've run into a confidence trickster
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:otherwise, and that's not what sales
is supposed to be about and it's not.
436
:It's not what coaching is supposed to be
about, like if you have to emotionally
437
:manipulate your clients and put them into
such a negative state of mind, get them
438
:feeling super upset and even distressed
about their problems or get them feeling
439
:so super high about things that they can't
really think and make rational decisions.
440
:I'm not sure that that's
completely ethical.
441
:No, I've never liked that as well.
442
:That's why I was backed away from a lot
of the personal development industry
443
:because there's a lot of that goes on.
444
:Angie: yeah, I think that's
the key, personal development,
445
:development is the key.
446
:And again, I'm not saying that I never
have situations come up where I can see
447
:the reliance building, in a maybe not
so healthy way with a client, but now
448
:I have the experience to identify that.
449
:Relatively quickly and then I shift
away from it, I've had people say to
450
:me, I sent you an email last night
at 11 o'clock and I was really having
451
:a bad time and you didn't answer.
452
:I was like, yeah, because I was sleeping.
453
:You know, like, it maybe then it's time to
like reassess or, revisit the conversation
454
:about what the boundaries look like.
455
:But,
456
:John: Yeah.
457
:I've had those, I've had client situations
where , I had clients who were expecting
458
:results just because they had a coach.
459
:Angie: yeah, oh,
460
:yeah.
461
:Yeah.
462
:John: like, it didn't really
matter so much what we were
463
:actually doing in the sessions.
464
:They go out and be one of those.
465
:Keys to success thing is have
a coach, have a good coach.
466
:Great, but that's only going to help
you if you actually do the work still.
467
:It's not,
468
:Angie: Yes.
469
:John: it's are you going to get fit just
because you've got a gym membership?
470
:No, you still have to go and do the work.
471
:He said to himself, but that's the,
that's the reality of it, right?
472
:Uh, we still, we still have to put
in, we still have to put in the hours.
473
:We still have to put in
the effort and the energy.
474
:But I can see the attractiveness
from a coaching perspective.
475
:Many people come into coaching
because they have stuff that
476
:they need to deal with as well.
477
:Maybe that was partly true for me.
478
:We want to improve ourselves.
479
:We recognize there are things that
pass on going as well in our lives.
480
:And sometimes we come into it because we
generally do want to help other people.
481
:But if you do have, there's some self
esteem issues, some self confidence
482
:issues and stuff like that, and somebody
is looking to you for all the answers.
483
:And you suddenly become this point
of massive importance in their lives.
484
:I can see the attraction, the significance
of that, but just know if that's clicking
485
:up any triggers for anybody, this is not a
healthy situation for you or your clients.
486
:And so it's going to be important to
start to address that in some way and
487
:hold the mirror up and say, Is this
really the right way to go forward?
488
:That there is a better way.
489
:And replay this conversation and
figure out your path forward.
490
:With some healthier boundaries.
491
:Angie: Yeah.
492
:Yeah.
493
:Yeah.
494
:Yeah.
495
:I definitely think that
that's a big part of it.
496
:And I, which is maybe even
a whole different a whole
497
:different session for us.
498
:But, I'm not saying that we all have
to, because it's ridiculous, right?
499
:A lot of people, I think, put
us on a bit of a pedestal.
500
:You have it all figured out and
dialed in every minute of the day.
501
:If you all saw what I look like
right now on this podcast, John
502
:and I are sitting here on video and
503
:I was running late.
504
:Yep.
505
:He has to look at it.
506
:My hair is still bed head.
507
:You know drinking my first cup
of coffee because I'm imperfect.
508
:I overslept and guess what I came in
I owned it and said sorry John most
509
:people don't see me like this here.
510
:You are though Okay, the point that i'm
making is that we are still all human just
511
:because we're coaches or if I'm a doctor,
it doesn't mean I don't bleed, right?
512
:It's the same kind of scenario.
513
:And sometimes we get into coaching
specifically or spaces where,
514
:we're, there's things of our
own coming up and it's virtually
515
:impossible for that not to happen.
516
:But I think that we have to be
trained enough mentally aware enough
517
:to be able to say wait a minute
Is this my issue or their issue?
518
:It has happened.
519
:That's just a reality because
we're human first always
520
:John: it's, it's an interesting
thing and it good there.
521
:They don't wanna go in into the
weeds or often too many tangents.
522
:But I'm very aware that some of
the people who we most respect
523
:and admire the world, we tend to.
524
:idolize them and wash away
their imperfections, but they
525
:are still imperfect people.
526
:And then the thing they say about not
meeting your heroes, it's I think it's
527
:fine to meet your heroes , so long
as you have the approach of everyone
528
:is human and everyone has issues or
challenges or shit they have to deal with.
529
:And sometimes people have good days.
530
:Sometimes people have bad days.
531
:They are all human.
532
:No one is above it all.
533
:And so when you meet, I used to meet
a lot of celebrities in my airline
534
:days, and some of them were fantastic
and some of them not, but I don't know
535
:if they were just having a bad day.
536
:I don't know if they were just being
an a hole because, because that's
537
:how, what their personality is,
or if it was just like on the day.
538
:And so I can't say whether it was
good or bad to meet them or not.
539
:Might have changed some of my opinions
of them, but I've never really held
540
:someone in the sort of level of
esteem where I think that they are
541
:beyond the beyond reproach where
there's really nothing we could say,
542
:Oh, they do everything perfectly.
543
:Nobody is like that.
544
:And we shouldn't ever think that they are.
545
:Angie: Well, and we shouldn't
set an expectation for ourselves
546
:as coaches for that either.
547
:We're allowed to be imperfect.
548
:We're allowed to learn and grow.
549
:That's why we call it a coaching.
550
:I call it a coaching practice because I'm
like I'm different than I was a year ago
551
:and the year before that and 20 years ago.
552
:And and I allow for that
space, but disallowing people
553
:to become overly reliant.
554
:On me, that is definitely
something that I actively work on.
555
:With all of my clients
556
:John: There we go.
557
:I think we might have
just fixed this issue.
558
:May,
559
:Angie: There he is
560
:John: Maybe the UN should hire us and send
us out as a worldwide peacekeeping force,
561
:because we can just solve everything.
562
:Right.
563
:Angie: Oh my gosh, you don't want me to be
a peacekeeper i'm too opinionated Just you
564
:John: and it wouldn't be right.
565
:Anyway.
566
:Yeah.
567
:But it's so ho Hopefully the conversation
has been valuable to you and you get.
568
:Certainly I hope it, if it has touched a
few nerves about, all right, those healthy
569
:boundaries with clients, it's worth
examining that even if you're not sure
570
:take a good honest look and ask yourself,
are you genuinely empowering your clients
571
:or are you maybe allowing yourself to feel
good because your clients really need you
572
:Angie: I
573
:John: maybe make some new and
different decisions for that.
574
:I've enjoyed this conversation,
Angie, how about you?
575
:Angie: all of our conversations . I do
576
:I
577
:John: I did.
578
:I do too.
579
:Shall we come back and
do it again next week?
580
:Angie: I think that's a definite.
581
:Yes.
582
:John: Definitely.
583
:Yes.
584
:But in the meantime, if you have a
message for us, whether you have some
585
:opinions on what we talked about today
or topics that you'd like us to cover or
586
:coaching situations that you don't know
how to deal with, leave us a voicemail.
587
:You can contact us at speakpipe.
588
:com.
589
:That's S P E A K P I P E speakpipe.
590
:com forward slash The coaching
clinic podcast, leave us your coaching
591
:questions, comments, and concerns.
592
:You can find the link in the show notes.
593
:If your message is really good, we
might just speak to you on the show,
594
:but that's it for us for today.
595
:And we will be back next time with
more from the coaching clinic.
596
:So see you then.
597
:Angie: Bye.
598
:Bye