This week, Anique and Jeff discuss Pride month: what it means to each of us, the dos and don’ts, the tops and bottoms and everything in between. Listen now to learn about how your organisation and its leaders can actively and intentionally support the LGBTQ+ community.

Learn more about Within People and the work we do here

All right.

So happy to be here.

It's been way too long.

Yes.

Why has it been so long, but doesn't, it feels like it's been a long time

because it has, but actually it does feel, it feels like only yesterday

that we recorded our Ukraine podcast.

And now we're in what, like day 102 of the war?

That is the most depressing thing in my New York times, , every day,

it's like, here's the day countdown.

So it was like the countdown to Christmas or something, but it's

the count up to even more malaise.

But, it's pride month.

It's pride month.

So that we'll just put that, all that sadness in a box for now and

focus on being the proud members of the LGBTQ community that we are.

And actually I've been quite trying to adopt the two S at the beginning.

I don't know if you know about this.

Do you?

I noticed that you did do that?

Yeah.

I think it's because post black lives matter, I like

have a curated Instagram feed.

I like stopped following a lot of white people and just brought a

ton of indigenous and black people and other folks into my feed.

And I'm really, the witchy spiritual side of me is like pretty intrigued

by the indigenous culture and like the storytelling and the

intergenerational sharing of history, also trauma, I don't know.

I'm really, I'm really curious about their culture.

And so this idea of people being two-spirit I think

is just really fascinating.

That's what the two S stands for is two-spirit.

And I'm not educated enough to speak any deeper than that, except that people

feel like they belong in two worlds and that they belong to two different

cultures and there's a queerness at that.

And there's a, a way of belonging too.

So it's sort of this like inclusivity moment of adding those things to

that acronym to say like, Hey, you can be a part of this too.

So I don't know.

It's it's interesting.

I think it's interesting to see how much more gets added in to

the acronym as time goes by.

Isn't it?

And, and why do things get added in, right?

And how do I, as someone as a gen X, how do I feel about that?

It's the same.

With the pride flag , as the pride flag evolves, how do I feel about

that and what comes up for me?

And I think with, with the additions of the plus and the I and the a, what

does that mean for different groups who identify with the different subsets?

I would say, or different reflections of identity in our, in our community.

But I think what's interesting, about the two-spirit notion was, was I I'm still

not clear yet, like where came from, because when I did some research that

it doesn't actually adequately reflect a lot of first nations perspective.

And, and I'm still concerned that about, did it come from

somewhere that wasn't within?

Like the labeling of it, not the concept of it, but the labeling of it,

did that come from actually a bunch of other queers that decided, oh,

we must adopt this and bring it in.

So I feel like I have further learning to do on that.

So for me, I don't feel like.

Able to add it in to the way that I speak.

And I, I will prefer to use LGBTQ or sometimes LGBTQ plus, I feel that really

represents and can be for all of us.

And, and I'm even just happy now that I can use the Q in there, because for

the longest time, the Q was one of the biggest triggering words in my world.

I've had people use that word as a slur against me with violence.

And so it's how do you adopt that and understand it?

And I think there's been a lot in our community to help us understand the

history of that word as well and how important it was to reclaim that word.

But that's a journey for a lot of people and especially people of my generation

where it's like, whoa, whoa, I'm going to put the "f" in there as well.

No, please.

No.

Yeah, you you've suggested a couple of things that we hope to cover today.

And before we hit record, I was like, I don't know about that.

And I'm actually so excited for you to share your knowledge

because there is so much.

Like intergenerational things that happen, even in our community of learnings

and history and like lived experience that I don't have that you don't have.

I'm a man, you're a woman.

We identify different.

So we also don't have those experiences, but why don't we just

get started by just talking about what pride month even means to us?

Cause I think that's a really awesome place to start.

Yeah.

Well, what does it mean to you?

Well, for me, pride month is it kind of brings up two things.

I get quite frustrated that we even need to have a month.

Which is kind of a different part of this conversation, but then I also do

feel wildly proud to be bisexual and own that and have a space to really like

celebrate that and bring awareness to it.

So it's sort of two things.

It means being able to celebrate who I am in a way that feels

really safe actually, and accepted.

And I can do that every day, but there's like a month for it, which is really nice.

I think what it does is also create a space for us to talk about our

experiences in this community.

Like we're going to do today.

Like you and I have spoken about the word queer, we've spoken about

a few things, but it sort of gives like an invitation for a deep dive

to talk about things and to really like bring things into our awareness

and other people's awareness too.

Yeah, it's almost like, it's our time.

Goonies never say die.

It's our time now.

But it's interesting though, to think like, this is a

thing that happens now, right?

Like the other day was national veggie burger day and shout out for that.

But, you know, I get as, as listeners may know, I love a cocktail and every

now and again, it's margarita day or it's like, National Manhattan day.

Thank you.

So we get a month...

As if you needed an excuse to drink cocktails.

As if.

Every day.

It's like every day is pride day and every day is national Manhattan day.

It's like, why do we need these days?

These times or these observances?

But I think you've raised the point is like, if we don't shine a light on

something, how does the light to get the chance to beam across the world?

And so, so we get a month And I think it's different for me now that I

live in San Francisco because it's like living in the fault line of

the epicenter of American queerness.

And it means more now.

And I think move, I moved here in the pandemic and it shut down and

I got really angry about that.

I got really angry that they would cancel the pride March.

A.

This doesn't make any scientific sense to me.

Cause like, can't we just March in six feet distance from each other, like a

really long, elongated march, but it was like, okay, now you've someone else

has decided that we don't get to do the thing that means something to us and pride

was a riot and the march is important.

So in the same way that churches were like, what do you mean we can't worship?

And the government said, okay, maybe you can.

It was like, how did the government get to decide that pride marches

across the nation would be canceled?

And I, I see that as homophobic and I see it as an affront to our culture.

So then last year there was a slightly diluted March as well

cause we had another kind of uptick.

This year, let's see what happens.

I think it's, it's all, it's all a go, but it does mean something

different and it means showing up.

It means stepping up as well.

And I think it's a reminder to us that the ride isn't over.

And I think for me in my sort of journey of that is like, okay,

now I really want to start a riot.

So what's it going to be?

Cause I think as you you know, maybe when you're in your activist, youth era,

everything was a riot and everything's a revolution because that's how we

process things in our, in our youth.

And then you kind of get like complacent don't you?

And like a riot is like, how am I going to get a table at foreign cinema?

Right?

But it's not.

So it's a reminder.

No, the fight's not over.

Let's go.

And I think that's really important for this, for this month to

remember, and especially with some of the shizz that is going down.

Let's get into that.

So we know on this podcast, we always kind of talk about workplace culture

and leadership, obviously, but we're bringing this pride month's lens to it.

And we thought we could kind of highlight a little bit of why companies,

why organizations support pride.

Should they?

How do they?

Where perhaps are the missteps and things, they could be doing a

little bit differently because we've got a lot of that out there, but

where do you think we should start?

Well, what do you think about corporations supporting pride month?

I think similarly to how we share with our leaders

committed to change that DEI should be integrated in everything.

So should pride.

And that doesn't mean that you need to have like a rainbow logo year

round, but it does mean that inclusive behavior and inclusive activities should

just be happening all year, perhaps still celebrating during this month.

Because as we said, it brings a lot, it's a reminder.

It gives us a chance to share stories, to connect, to feel proud, all those things.

But, again, it's one of those things.

I'm a Libra.

Okay.

I'm balancing scales.

I can kind of see both sides.

I both am annoyed that this is a thing that we have to celebrate

and people put rainbow logos and I can see why it's important.

And I also just wish it was something that lived throughout the whole year.

And I used to work at WeWork and I was on our queer community, our

employee resource group, basically.

And one of the big, last initiatives before I got unceremoniously

exited was the pride...

More on that on another podcast.

Was the pride parade.

So I got to help to design our whole float.

I got to be on the committee.

We put together a whole series of events.

It was incredible.

And I felt good doing that.

And I felt empowered that WeWork was like, please let's do this.

And it was sort of a like, shouldn't we just be always doing this?

So I'm kind of, of two minds, I don't know.

Yeah.

So, so you felt, it must've felt good to make that float and be represented

in that way, feel proud of your company.

Right.

And I think there's, there's a bit of a corporation halo effect that goes there

from an internal engagement point of view.

Right?

Like we can be proud cause we're supporting.

I do think it, the story behind it has to go way further back around

the acknowledgement that actually this is a group of people, the LGBTQ

community who are a segment of the population that can spend money.

So it's, it's in many sense, it's a marketer's dream to go in pride month.

"We support you.

Please spend your dollars with us".

In America, it's known as the Dorothy dollar and in the UK,

it's known as the Pink Pound.

And the Pink Pound is worth an estimated sort of 6 billion

a year to the UK economy.

And it's estimated a being as a global force over several trillion.

Right?

Okay.

But those, those are big numbers.

But is that what we're here for?

Are we a marketing segment?

Are we an ABC one LGBTQ plus one, like, that's not what pride is about.

And I think that's why people get angry with the commercialization of it.

And if I walk into target and I see the pride outfits that you've

got hanging on your cheap plastic, like hangers, as I walked past the

chocolate aisle, that can infuriate me.

But I did see a post the other day on Instagram, which

I thought was really great.

I think it was post of someone's tweet that said, " hey, yeah, it's kind of

gross what Walmart and target are doing, but as somebody," and I think this person

was maybe late or early stage gen X.

So quite a bit, a little bit older than me.

"As someone who use to not be able to walk into a store and feel that they

could hold hands or be themselves with the person they loved to walk into

target, which was one of the first businesses to kind of support, I think

this is and celebrate, to walk into stores now and see them celebrating our

identity is fundamentally different".

And so how do we understand that?

Not just go, oh, it's gross because the corporates are stealing our money,

but actually understand how much, how far we've come, where it used to be

shameful or hurtful to walk into a store.

And, and let's acknowledge that in many places in the world and still many

places in America, it is still that way.

And that until the equality act passes, many stores in many states could still

say, "Hey, you can't come in here and buy something from us because you are queer".

And so there's far to go.

And so, so yeah, it's interesting to think actually, can we see the positive in the

commercialization of, of not of our flag.

Cause as you know, I don't believe in that we can't take an identity

and merge it into our own and say, "Hey, look for a month.

We're rainbow too".

That doesn't really work for me, but can we say, "Hey, we support you.

And actually we're doing something and we're doing something in

the community and we're doing something inside our business".

And that's where I think this really needs to move to.

Can we have in June companies saying we're not done yet?

We have a lot more.

In terms of equity and equality, that and inclusion that we really

need to do in our business.

I really liked that.

And when you were speaking, what was coming up for me is like, I think I

also really need to check my privilege when I feel the frustration because

unlike you and other people, even older generations and people of my exact same

age, I have not had a traumatic experience as someone in this community, really.

I had a couple of times when I was like ostracized and outed when I

was living in Utah and like was not allowed to do certain things, but I've

always been accepted by my family.

I've always been.

I'm a CIS woman.

Like I can, I'm presenting, you know, like I can show up and just be myself.

And that is, there's a real privilege to that.

So the trauma of walking into target and seeing rainbows is not

something that I have experienced.

I can empathize with that of not being accepted into a target, but I,

it's not something I've experienced.

And there's a real privilege to that, that I have to remember.

Yeah.

And I think it's like , where we are now is great.

It's and we're not done, but where other places in the

world haven't even started yet.

And I think that checking our privilege of like, if we're fighting

the fight, but we live in San Francisco, the fight feels different.

Can we remember we're fighting the fight for people around the world?

In seven countries that you can still face the death penalty

just for being who you are.

You know, legal marriage is only one in 50 countries, I might get

that wrong apologies, but it's, it's low compared, you know?

So, so there's a lot more to do.

And so can , if you're in a place of privilege of where you live

and things feel good, can you remember that you're here also as

a community to fight for others?

And can corporations then, or businesses understand that they may

have a role to play in that too?

And that that role is based around how do they create a system of

equity, inclusion, and equality in their own macro micro world where

they can actually affect change?

Yeah.

I really liked the idea of like using June to say, we're not done yet.

I think that is really powerful because I mean, Don't Say Gay bill just passed

in Florida, like a few months ago, like, hello, what are we doing people?

Right.

And there's many other bills on the docket in many of the states

where, you know, there's going to be a lot of don't saying gay.

And so how are corporations right now saying gay?

And can they put their money where their mouth is because always follow the money.

Listeners of this podcast know that that's where I believe the truth lies.

So if you believe in equity and equality and you've, and you want to change your

logo rainbow this month, can you tell us how are you going to get behind that?

Like, are you willing to defund your pac for politicians who will

not pass the equity act into law.

And if you're not why, and can you stand up as a leader in front of your business

and say, this is why we're not willing to defund politicians who will actively

seek to discriminate in our community.

And I think we saw the backlash with Disney where they wouldn't withdraw

their support of the, don't say, gay bill, and then the bill passed.

And then we're like, oh, wait a second, actually, we do.

A little bit too late there, mickey.

But the backlash internally and externally for, for Disney fans was, was very real.

And of course now Disney gets the backlash from the Florida

politicians, but who will win.

Mickey or Ron?

Please let Mickey win.

I'm team Mickey.

Before we get into what corporations could be doing, can we talk about

the most ridiculous thing that we've seen so far this month?

It's currently the 10th of June and we've already seen some ridiculous stuff.

What's the most ridiculous thing you've seen?

I mean, it's gotta be the foods things I can't tell

what serious or not anymore.

The memes, the "Gayo" . The Gayo Mayo, the rainbow Mayo.

I mean, that had to be fake.

I think everybody was like, is that a deep fake?

It looked like it was photo-shopped with the rainbow Mayo.

I don't know if you saw this the sort of.

"What to bottoms eat?"

thing going down.

It's gotta be all the food stuff going on for me right now.

But I think there's something light hearted about it.

It's like, it's, it's funny- ish.

It could be a microaggression?

I dunno.

What do you think?

Well, yeah, the most ridiculous thing actually was today.

I was getting my haircut and talking to my my hairstylist, Bradley.

Shout out to Bradley.

And he was like, "have you seen the burger king Whopper thing?"

And I was like, no, and he's like, "it must be fake" . I'm like, well, let's see.

And so while I'm getting my blow dry, I'm Googling, and I think it's real.

In Burger King in Austria, they are doing a fully tops or fully

bottom's bun so you get a burger bun, that's both tops or both bottoms.

And we all know that, like you can't have two tops and you can't have two bottoms.

It doesn't work.

It doesn't work for a burger and it doesn't work.

So, this is in Austria, though.

This is very interesting from an Austrian, conservative cultural context as well.

That's why I think they're, it's like, they think they're being funny

and they think there's like some edge to it, but actually, it's not inclusive.

That's for dang sure.

And yeah, and actually it's funny because that is, it's sort of like

only an intersection of the whole community and the whole month is

about, it's not about everyone.

It's about one little it's absurd.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

So food in June, 2022 has been the nexus of where...

last year was crappy couture in target this year, it's bizarre burgers.

Yeah.

Bizarre burgers.

Okay.

So what should corporations be doing?

We started to get into that, but, rather than just the rainbow

logo, what, what can we do?

Well, I've, I've sort of alluded to it already with my

let's go with the defunding option.

I mean, I think that's the far end of the scale, obviously the,

like how do you listen to people?

Understand the issues in the community?

That is important.

Like you said, this is a time for space.

So how do we give space for those stories?

How do we actually hear and understand them?

I think one thing that I'd love to highlight is, I think it's time that

if you have a policy in your business, that is equitable and inclusive, say

for example, adoption leave for same-sex parents or healthcare provided at the

fullest extent of your insurance that might be quite different to what the state

would provide, say for HIV medication or something like that, that really

understands the needs of the community.

How are you extending that?

To everyone in your global workforce.

So if you've got employees in America and I'm just going to be bold here, and you

have operations in Saudi Arabia, how are you going to bring that level of equity

and understanding to your employees there?

And that's edgey.

Because that's going against the cultural norms of what's happening in your business

and in the places that you operate.

But I'm going to plant a flag there and say, you own your system leader.

So if you believe in equity, then that has to go across the board.

It can't just be, oh, you live in California, so you must be more liberal.

So we're going to give you more things, right.

And, oh, you live in.

I don't know Argentina, so we'll, I don't know the healthcare system.

There are apologies what I mean, I'm assuming, I'm assuming there's...

All of our listeners in Argentina are furious.

Apologies.

Lo Siento.

Yeah, so just extending it because I think as companies get more global and also

as the workforce gets more global, so we can work from anywhere now, if you live

and work in certain places, not if you work for Elon more on that maybe later.

Are we extending that same understanding of equity across our business?

Or are we, are we packaging it up in more liberal places so that we

can attract the people who might be living more in those zones?

What do you think about that though?

I know that's kind of interesting.

I'm just thinking like so much of the work we're doing now as a

partnership is about attracting talent, because that is what workplace

culture is calling for at the moment.

And, I like the idea of it being something that's available for everyone

and making that equitable globally.

And it's a curious thing to package it up for more liberal areas.

If that's where you are hyper- locally and wanting to attract

that kind of folks, because it's, I don't know how I feel about that.

To be honest, it's a really difficult one.

I mean, I, in my heart I'm like equitable globally, obviously.

And I can see the challenge of that for employers, for sure.

Yeah.

And strategically, I mean, it's sort of go, okay, well, we'll, we're probably

gonna have to spend more to attract certain people in certain markets

and we can make cuts in other places.

Right?

So, I don't know, like when you were at WeWork, did everybody have

the same package across the board because you were a global business?

Yeah.

I don't know the answer to that.

I would say probably not because my experience was that there was

a pretty intense gender pay gap.

So I'm assuming that there were gaps in other places too, but

I don't know that for sure.

So I'm just no idea.

But I guess the other thing that's coming up for me now is if you're in Saudi

Arabia, And you're a person who doesn't align with our beliefs and your company

has on their culture page or on their job description, equitable working practices.

And that is for some reason, offensive to you, perhaps bugger

off and maybe it comes back to like aligning on our values, like who are

the people that we want to attract.

Right.

And this is always the crux, right?

It's always, the thing is like, Ooh, maybe we don't want to stick our heads

to above the parapet because we're going to have people out there that

aren't going to like what we stand for.

Well you don't stand for it, unless you're standing on the freaking

parapet bouncing up and down and saying, this is what we stand for.

So that's why I hate the word humble when it comes to businesses, talking

about themselves, around stuff like this.

It's like, we don't want to rock the boat.

We don't want to shake things up.

The world needs shaking up.

And if you're going to say that these are the things that are important

to you, you've got to stand by them.

And so, this is a challenge that I'm putting out there becasue I know it's

hard and I know it's particularly hard in regions where that's difficult.

And we've seen a lot of things over the with the past couple of years as well,

especially with social media where we can see what's going on in other parts

of the world and other parts of our community where you've got American

posts saying like, "yeah, it's time for everyone to come out", and here's our

media and like have a public outing.

And like, here we go, Rebel Wilson's come out.

Isn't she great?

Let's post that and post that and post that.

And then you've got people in countries where they can't come out because doing

so would be harmful to their life, going well "that's really great that you guys

are saying that this is so important.

We can't do that".

And I think it's not for us to go, oh, you should.

But rather for us to go, oh wait, how do we use our privilege to help you do that?

And that's going to be a journey for your nation to get there or your culture.

But if we stand for equity and equality and belief in who we are, then we have to

be able to stand for that in everything.

And as a company, I just believe you're going to have to take that

journey and take that step and you do it because it's the right thing to do.

And you do it because it makes good business sense because the more you are

able to bring freedom into your business, the more, your people are going to thrive.

The more that you're going to thrive.

And I think if you close that down and think well we're going to, we're

going to lose consumers, or we're going to be pushed out of areas where

we, where we're not accepted anymore.

Where will you, where will you be accepted?

How, how are you standing up for that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And perhaps like the more they're standing up on the platform and being

explicit about values aligned or not, but the people they want to attract,

the more allies they'll create?

Which is kind of interesting because then you've got like global

allies where, you know, there's, the people in this community are

struggling every day to overcome bias that they're, they're having.

And it's, there's so much discrimination in the workplace still.

And there's something about if we talk about what corporations should

do, it's creating that safe space to hear from employees to make it okay,

to be able to talk about who they are and embrace their authenticity.

And really, each of us have a role to play in that.

And so if you have a team full of allies, then you've got more people on your

side doing what's needed to be done.

And you kind of started to talk about this for a second, but the idea of

our really deeply held belief that diversity is actually what helps us

grow diversity, unlocks creativity, unlocks collaboration, unlocks learning.

So the more room you make for it, the better you'll be as a

company, commercially as well.

So one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is that the idea of being mindful

that LGBTQ inclusion doesn't fall behind diversity priorities on gender race.

It's a part of it.

It should be a part of it and intrinsic throughout your organization.

Just like we feel the same way about DEI.

It shouldn't be just a DEI policy that stands alone.

It's integrated into your employee experience at every place.

And part of that is representation at the leadership level.

Like we don't work with many leaders that are part of our community, and there's

something really interesting about that.

And I'm curious what you kind of think about that representation on

leadership teams that could actually be a reflection of the diversity that

we're trying to create in our workplace.

Why do you think that gender and race win in the DEI conversations?

Why did those get popped to the top?

First thing that popped in my mind was that sometimes

those things are more visual where sexuality perhaps isn't.

Yes.

But I don't know.

Why do you think?

I've struggled with this as well.

I think there's two things there apart, like visibility being number one.

I think number two is probably also volume, which is linked to visibility.

So we have 50% women.

We have 50% men.

Why don't we have equality and equity between gender?

So that's a basic one.

And why do we still not have that is an ongoing battle.

So there you go with that one.

I think in America, race is really important and as it should be.

And so it does have a prime position.

So why aren't we seeing more people of color in leadership positions

is a really important discussion.

Whereas you hear that discussion in Europe, but not in the same way because

Europe isn't processing that trauma of inequity in the same way that America is.

It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

It's just not processing it.

And again, there's a numbers game there because people of color are also in

America I think it's, we're going to get to the point where if it's a bit of a

weird conglomerate, but like 50% white and 50% people of color, which in which

they've lumped in just other things.

So yeah, that's a segmentation issue that I'm still not understanding, but

Hey, so that's a numbers game as well.

So then people go, well, there's not that many gays is there?

And then I think the other thing that comes along with it in line with that

is like, well, gay men are still men, so they still are in positions of power.

Well, that's interesting and possibly true.

But that doesn't mean we're not marginalized.

And so we're still not represented.

And at the moment in the FTSE 100, there are zero CEOs who

are LGBTQ or out as LGBTQ and in the fortune 500, there are four.

So even in the numbers game, so if you go by the McKinsey rule of 10% representation

of LGBTQ, I think McKinsey data is maybe a bit outdated because we were looking at

the binaries of sort of gay or lesbian.

And now we know that there's much more of a spectrum.

If you're looking at that, we're still way below the curve.

But the stat that I saw the other day was 25 out of 5,670 board seats

at the fortune 500 companies are occupied by openly LGBTQ plus people.

So that's 0.4%.

So when I cause so you go four or 500, well that's okay.

You guys are in there.

You got four, you got Tim Cook.

Not sure I would include him as openly LGBTQ, but that's for another podcast, but

four to 500 people go, oh, you're there.

You got a number, but 0.4% of board seats that sucks.

Not okay.

Yeah.

So this is called again with the, with the terms.

Well, I don't know why everything has to be pink, but fine.

It's why couldn't it be the rainbow ceiling, but it's the pink ceiling.

There seems to be a point where representation at

senior levels is not there.

So why do you think that is Anique?

And is it the same for women and people of color to get to the top?

I think there's some similar practices perhaps

happening like senior leaders.

We talked to our clients a lot about this.

You have to stop hiring in your image.

If we go out and try to find people just like us, all of a sudden, we're

surrounded by a team just like us.

Right.

So there's a real intentionality that has to happen about

creating some really real and serious diversity instead of hiring in our image.

And what's interesting too, is the, like looking externally to hire folks

like hiring from within and looking at your own community within, so that

it's like a real representation of who you already are putting people

in leadership and them representing who you already are is another really

interesting way to think about it.

And focusing on the growth and development of your people and like bringing up the

next generation of leaders, that's, you know, part of this community, part of

the people of color community, whatever that one is for you, but looking at

how you can kind of grow your people from within and hire people who, who

should be in leadership positions.

We need more representation.

It's very important.

Yeah.

It's, it's interesting to think, like how many transgender employees do you know?

Across the clients we've worked with or in the businesses we've worked

with, I can only name a couple and that journey happen over time as well.

If I think about when I started my career zero and where I'm at

now, now I'm seeing a handful.

I'm old, so 20 years of working at least.

So I haven't seen enough, I haven't seen a lot of change,

but maybe it's a hockey stick.

Let's see what happens.

So are the safe spaces being created in our corporate worlds?

And our companies supporting people to come out is the first question,

because the stats are openly LGBTQ plus people that does not mean

that in their lives, they're not.

Like even in their private lives or in their social life, perhaps they are openly

out, but at work, maybe they're not.

And so that's the number one thing, but when are we going

to see a transgender CEO?

When, when do we imagine that's going to happen?

so we think about the progress that's needed now where transgender

people don't even have equal rights in this country and beyond.

So to have one as a CEO, think of the power that would have in representation

for our youth and for politicians to see that this is a person who is

just as clever and just as good and just as brilliant at what they do and

that this aspect of their cultural dynamic, that's hugely important to

them being a successful business person in the mind of corporate America.

That kind of representation is really important and we don't have it.

And this is why I even advocate for if you are a LGBTQ sports

professional, how important it is for you to come out because the world

is needing you to stand on your own parapet and say, look, here I am.

And there are more of us because we know, we know that they're way more

gay footballers in the United Kingdom.

We know that there are way more lesbians sports people in and across the world.

And we know that trans kids have the right to play for the

sports team that they choose to.

And until we start seeing more representation that

is not going to happen.

We know how important that is.

Yeah, we spoke about that today also while I was getting

my haircut, did the maths of all the football teams across, and there's

like something around 4,000 athletes and there's like one bisexual.

That's impossible.

There's definitely more, but it's not as, it's not a safe space.

So it's really difficult.

And imagine what representation would unlock for future generations and just the

people around them, their peers as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we've been talking for quite a while and I'm really happy

to be in this conversation.

And what do you think is important for us to talk about now?

Well, what do you want to see in this pride month?

What would be your dream?

My dream would be CIS white men and women that are leading

companies, going to the employees and the LGBTQ community and saying, Hey, I

really want to create a space for you.

And I want to support you.

How can we co-create together?

Because I think that in a lot of employee resource groups, there's many people in

our community who don't feel safe enough to create the space even for themselves.

And I think we need to see a lot more allyship from leaders to

actually be creating, or at least opening the door, putting the power

in the hands of the community.

But we need some of these allies to open the door that are in senior

leader positions to say, I see you.

I want to support you.

I want to hold a safe space with you and alongside you.

Tell me what you need.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

I think that it's such a simple thing to do and yet seems so hard.

Doesn't it?

And every leader could do that.

I champion your vision.

Oh, it's such a big question.

Isn't it?

That's definitely rainbow mayo.

That was definitely what I wanted to see this pride month.

I would like to see pride become political again.

And I know we're in a very divisive political environment at the moment, and

I'm all for it because we need to get to break down before we get to breakthrough.

I would like that breakdown to not be violent, but in many cases we have

to remember that bricks were thrown.

So what are the things that we're going to overhaul?

And I think even just seeing what happened over the past couple of weeks in San

Francisco, I don't know if you heard, but I didn't want to get this wrong,

but the sort of governing body for the pride March made the decision that police

officers would not be allowed to march in uniform at San Francisco pride.

So they would need to de-uniform because of the triggers that that might cause.

That caused a furore and Mayor Breed decided that she would not attend the

pride March to stand in solidarity with the San Francisco police department.

So, whether or not, you agree with the decision of the governing

body of the pride parade, the community gets to make the decision.

And I think we have to remember that pride is an exclusive event.

And the pride march is an exclusive event.

The pride march organizers get to decide those things.

And so the furore was of course, Mayor Breed saying she wasn't going to

march and the community was not happy with that and sent a signal that they

weren't going to go to city hall for the annual opening of pride month ceremony.

Mayor breed listened to that.

She heard she stood up.

She apologized.

She said she would march.

And that she supported the community's decision to make its own decisions.

And I think that is political, community making those decisions,

talking about why it makes those decisions is important as well.

I think I, you know, I am very empathetic towards people in the police department

who are LGBTQ and I think removing a sense of their identity is controversial.

But I also understand that pride started because of the police.

That was a thing.

So we have to understand those contexts.

And I guess to put one more wish if I may Anique, is, I would love in

pride month and I know we have LGBTQ history month as well, but I would

like us always to listen to our elders, understand our past and grow from that.

Because I think our history has been repressed for so long that

there's so many good stories to watch and learn from and listen to.

And we're missing that.

And I think if we can use this month to connect even just to

one, that's pretty powerful.

I'd like to give a shout out to season three pose.

I don't know if you've watched this yet.

Oh my God.

The blubbering mess I was when Pray Tell goes back, I'm just in that.

So no spoilers everyone.

If you haven't watched it yet.

I didn't watch it because I was suppressing my own identity of how many

streaming services I needed to sign up to.

And I was like, is Hulu yet another one?

And I was like, no, I cannot put this off anymore.

It's not poses, not going to Netflix.

I can see that.

It's not, I need to watch it sign up to Hulu.

So I was the episode where Pray Tell goes back to visit

his mother and the community.

Like it's making me weep right now.

Just thinking about how powerful and beautiful it was.

And , I mean, that is telling a historical context story and Pose is really an

exceptional piece of broadcasting because of everything that's done for

representation and allowing stories from our past to come through.

But really, you know, even the way that the production team have have

assembled an actual representative cast.

It's beautiful, but it truly is, this season is just amazing.

So.

Mm.

Love that everyone go watch Pose.

And now we've got, now we've got Queer As Folk reboot as well.

And obviously the Fire Island movie is out.

So you've got a lot of stuff to watch this month.

And I know that skewing more on the on the G, B and T side.

I think there was criticism that Fire Island didn't have enough

lesbian representation in it.

And I think the community was like, that's cause they're on the Pines.

So there's another film, it would be over there.

There's a lot out there.

Yeah.

Oh man.

Watching the L word foof.

Anyways.

This was an amazing conversation as always you brought us some really good stuff

and I'm grateful to be in this space with you and this community with you.

And thank you so much for the space to talk about this.

It's wonderful to be here.

I'd like to give a shout out to Emily, our producer.

Who's always behind the scenes and has been giving thumbs up

and claps and hands rasied.

Preach girl.

We are here and thank you, Emily, for everything you've

done for our podcast as well.

Cause it's awesome.

It's so awesome.

Thanks Emily.

I love being a part of it, thank YOU.

So good.

Thanks everyone for listening.

Thanks for being here, Jeff and Emily, it was an absolute pleasure.

Re-imagining Work From Within is available wherever you listen to podcasts and

we release episodes every other week.

See you soon.