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Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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056: Military Caregivers and Blue Star Families with Dr. Geri Lynn Maples

As the wife of a veteran injured in service to our country in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Dr. Geri Lynn Maples advocates, educates, and dedicates her life to serving our veterans and their families. Her Doctoral Dissertation, titled, “Surviving the Invisible Wounds of War: As Told by the Unseen Heroes,” focuses on her personal story as a National Guard Military Spouse turned Caregiver and the impact of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder & Traumatic Brain Injury upon National Guard/Reserve Military Spouses and their Children. Geri is also the Chapter Director of the Dayton, Ohio Blue Star Families and the 2020 Elizabeth Doe Fellow for Ohio.

Connect with Dr. Geri Lynn Maples on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerilynnmaples/ or email gmaples@bluestarfam.org

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Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories for today's military spouses so they can continue to make confident and informed decisions for themselves and their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen a Moe's, a gold star, daughter, veteran spouse and your host for holding down the fort by us that wealth. Let's get started.

All right. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of holding down the floor. I am your co host, Jenn Amos. And as always, I have my co host with me, Jenny Lynch troupe. Jennylyn Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:48

Great. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Jen Amos 0:51

Speaker 1 2:07

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Jen Amos 2:11

Yeah. And I'm so glad that I had found you on LinkedIn. That's kind of my way of connecting with our community, a lot of us are on there. And more importantly, just who you are and what you do for our military family. And I know we were talking offline a lot about that. And so for people that are getting to know you for the first time, why don't you just share a little briefly what life looks like for you nowadays? Because I know that you had just started the Dayton, Ohio Blue Star Families chapter over there. And I imagine it was an interesting experience having started it and these interesting times.

Speaker 1 2:45

Jen Amos 4:22

Yeah, absolutely. And I can only imagine how much more challenging it is as a caregiver and someone who needs to go to, you know, the doctor, possibly frequently. I was just telling my husband yesterday, I was like, Honey, I think we need to like maybe consider going vegan or something because just the way that we're eating right now. Like I'm not saying we need to go to that extreme but like even as a healthy person, you know, and I just got the notification that I need to do like my annual checkup, you know, to go the doctors. I was just thinking like, I don't want to go to the hospital. I don't want to see my doctor like I'm so glad I went like earlier this year, you know, to get blood tests and all the normal stuff. But I just think that this time, it just seems like there's just a lot of anxiety and fear for me to go to the hospital. And so I can only imagine what it's like to have that routine that where you have to go to the hospital.

Speaker 1 5:13

Yeah, it's, you know, my husband doesn't, he doesn't like virtual visits, and he doesn't adapt well, to the get to the parking lot call, let me know you're here and wait to come in. He has a real problem with that. So it's been a real adjustment. And if technology doesn't work, he gets frustrated. So it's really been a challenge. I'm guessing that it's a lot of people kind of have that anxiety. But it's probably double that for persons, like, you know, my husband with a traumatic brain injury and all. So

Jen Amos 5:46

yeah, absolutely. This is like this is totally not in comparison to anything of your situation. But I was just thinking, too, that we had recently taken our dog to the vet. And we had to cancel his second appointment, because I just didn't like how the first appointment went, like right now, the vets like pick up your dog and take them inside and they take care of him for you. But our dog, unfortunately, he doesn't like that. He's a little more on the anxious side. And so we had to, like wear a mask and sit outside on the porch to talk to the doctor and the exam, just like did not go well. And after that, I just thought I was like, I don't like my dog is fine. Like he's a dog like me fine. Like I just don't want to deal with the anxiety of going to a medical environment. And so like it's it has nothing to do. There's no comparison to what what your situation is, but it just reminds you of just this overall, maybe fear and anxiety around like our health nowadays and having to stay at home, but also having to take care of our health if we have to and go to the doctors.

Speaker 1 6:41

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We have that same situation with our puppies, too. Yes, so I totally I totally can relate to that. But you know, I think the other side of that is you were able to put on a mask and kind of be involved. Whereas for a military caregiver like myself, I have to explain, especially to the civilian world, that I'm my husband's military caregiver. So I have to come in with him because a lot of times they're restricting who can go in and with individuals into the hospital or into the ER, he was suffering really bad headaches about a month and a half ago. And I literally had to beg to say, I have to go into the hospital with him. He's not going to go in there without me. I'm his caregiver, I need to be involved. And it was a real challenge to get them to understand, you know, who a military caregiver is and why it's. So it really is challenging on many different levels.

Jen Amos 7:40

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of which, for people that are hearing about Blue Star Families for the first time, Jerry, why don't you share with our listeners? What is a Blue Star family?

Speaker 1 7:52

Yeah, that's a really great question. So at Blue Star families, we obviously serve our military families in the community. But we also encourage to villian families to be involved as well to be part of our members. But here in the Dayton community, there's 11 or 12 of us across the country, we each have our chapter. So we have different regions from the West Coast, East Coast, down south in Florida, even in New York City. But here in Dayton, like you said earlier, we are brand new chapter, but a Blue Star family can be an active duty family, it can be a veteran family, caregiver, family, any kind of status within the military. But what they do is they are actually members free membership is free. And we as a chapter involve them in all different kinds of programming, whether it be from spouse force, where we help military spouses become, you know, gain the tools and gain employment with our partners out in the community, whether it be through Amazon, I know we work real closely with them, even our caregivers, we have a phenomenal Caregiver Program, where a young lady by the name of Amy oversees that, and she works with our military caregivers to help them gain the skills to prepare to get back out and into the employment world that is kind of adapted to them, right. So if they want to work remotely, because they feel better to do that, then they're able to do that. But we support the children as well. You're programming right now we're doing Bluestar summer camp. So this week, we did aerospace, and the kids got to go to virtually to a museum yesterday and see all kinds of neat little airplanes and things like that. But we really, you know, blue star family is, is really just kind of no matter what state what status of the military, you're in, we welcome them. And it really is special to be able to do that because especially nowadays, they need that the kids need that and we had to transition all of our programs to virtual so we do parks to kids De instead of kids to parks, you can't take them to the park right now. But you know, it really is just kind of a way to help engage the community and let civilians know that, hey, this is unique about military families, let's help you understand what it is about military families that is unique, so that you can have the opportunity to kind of see what you have to offer, right and see what ways you can support especially from, you know, an employment standpoint or an education standpoint. So

very awesome. Of course, we all wish we could do it all in person, but it sounds like you all have adapted just fine. And you're still able to offer these amazing programs to you know, really the families, the kids and even civilians.

Yes, yes, you know, and I think that's one of the things about that makes Bluestar family so special is we do want to get our civilian community involved. You know, we do have a great relationship with Starbucks as well. And my Starbucks here, in Dayton, we have joined forces together to do Starbucks coffee, taste, and chat. So next week, we'll be doing coffee, taste and chat. And they're so awesome, because they're sending samples out to those who registers so that we can learn about the coffee together. But then we have a theme each week, you know, the first time we did it, we talked about self care, which is really important amidst COVID. Next week, I'm going to focus on time management, because that's really important to write families for balancing, employment and childcare and puppy care, you know, all these different things. But time management is key. I don't know about you guys, but I find that it's really hard for me to separate myself from work and family, because I know there's an email waiting for me, you know, and so I'll be watching a movie, and remember that I forgot to do something and with my office, right across the way, it's so easy for me to get up and just go do that. And so that's probably like a COVID symptom. Yeah, I COVID Home Time Management symptom. Yeah, lack

of personal boundaries and, and a bunch of things. So Jenny Lynn, I thought your head nodding a lot. And I know that you know, you started your work and what you're currently doing, working from home really and this entire time, so I thought I'd check in with you and see if you had any thoughts.

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, the work life boundary thing is really interesting, especially as a mom of elementary school age boys, I will say that I'm thankful that the office sitting in in my house hasn't door and I've just really had to learn like to shut the door, I can't just constantly good because I would always be doing work or something and not present upstairs, my offices, like the only little room downstairs. So I kinda, that helps. There's like a whole flight of stairs between my office and like the rest of the house. So that's been helpful. And, you know, it's great listening to Jerry talked about Blue Star Families, we've been a huge fan of Blue Star families for years, especially at our last duty station, which was not a traditionally a military town. But to have the museum program is probably my favorite thing that blue star family says, and we would go to our local museums, for free, it provided us a way to get to know the community we were a part of, and also not have the burden of like exorbitant Museum in the Great Northeast where we were before. And so love the survey they put out every year, I actually take the survey every year and participate, because it's fascinating to me to learn about all the different pieces and parts that make up the military community. So I'm always on the lookout for the newest data that comes out of those.

Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Because, you know, this year, we're actually launching that on September 8. So it's a little behind because of COVID. But I'm excited every year to see that as well. I've you know, even before it came to Blue Star Families, I was using that data, because you know, I'm an academic nerd so. So, you know, having that data is so valuable. And interesting enough, it really does give folks like Jenny and her family, the ability to voice the things that are important to them. And whether it be you know, what is working and what is not working. But well, this chapter is brand new. So I'm really excited to be able to learn about what the families in Dayton have to say, you know, what, what is that data gonna look like when it's starts to become, you know, heard and their voices start to become heard. So I'm really excited about that. Because it is an opportunity to help us understand and tailor the things that need to be tailored to serve our military families in the best possible way. So thanks for bringing that up, Jenny, because I'm so glad to hear that you're are a fan of Blue Star Families and benefited from a lot of our programs, they really are instrumental in, in making a difference for our military family. So I'm honored to be able to have this opportunity, I couldn't think of a better position for me to be a part of. So I'm excited. And I look forward to many, many years and data. So

it sounds like I mean, the data is really fascinating to me every year that it comes out. But I imagine from a military caregiver standpoint, like you're really pumped about the way that Blue Star Families is able to actually make real change in the community. I mean, that's probably one. I'm a data nerd. And I think it's fascinating to look at all the little wheels and the colors and all the things and learn that I as an active duty military spouse, I'm like, point two 8% of the entire American population. That's a statistic that always blows people away. But, you know, I know through the years, I continue to take the survey, especially from a mental health and healthcare standpoint, because that seems to be the place where we really need a lot of support. And Blue Star families through the survey really is able to kind of push some of that through. So super helpful.

Yes, yes. And, you know, I'm glad that you brought that up, you know, especially the caregiver piece, you know, I'm grateful for the opportunity to serve my fellow military caregivers here in the state of Ohio, especially being, you know, the Elizabeth Dole fellow, so many things, really, you know, I have a lot of goals in that role, and one of them coming from the education piece, because, you know, as the military caregiver, you know, we do sometimes get to the point where we're like, you know, I'm going to be in this role, and what can I continue to do? How can I continue to serve, and education for me has been a real opportunity to continue my work, I wouldn't be where I am today without it. So I'm a huge education advocate. So when it comes to the survey, I want to know, what is the education level of our caregivers? Where can we grow opportunity wise to help empower them, I'm a better caregiver, because I was educated and had took those opportunities. So I'll give a shout out to thanks, USA, thanks, USA was a huge advocate for me being in education through their scholarship program. I can't say enough about that organization, I wouldn't be here where I was today without their scholarship opportunities. So big shout out to them. But from a state level, I want to see our state actually empower military caregivers so that they can have opportunities to seek higher education, whether at no cost, that would be my ultimate goal, no cost, but low cost, if possible. But you know, I'm anxious to see what our surveys gonna say, from a caregiver standpoint on what are their education goals and things like that, you know, do they need more undergrad opportunities, more graduate opportunities? So I'm anxious to see what that's gonna say. But, you know, I also want to know, do they feel welcomed in their community? Do they feel understood? You know, all these things? And what does it look like financially? You know, we did at Blue Star Families for 10 weeks, we did a pain points poll. And I might get a little emotional telling the story, but I had a caregiver respond to this pain points poll through COVID, which was looking for what are you experiencing right now. And she was having to choose whether to feed herself or her spouse, wow. And I immediately took action, and had her food on the table within 24 hours. But I couldn't imagine being in that situation. So that's just one powerful impact that I've had, from my basement. Right. Working from my basement, but that's the opportunity that I've been able to do so far. So even though I'm from my basement, I'm still making the difference.

That's awesome. Yeah. Do you find it easy for people to identify as military caregivers? I've heard you say a lot that you're looking forward to the survey results, because you want to know, and from an active duty perspective, I'd just now kind of come around to the fact that I can identify myself as a caregiver, I would not have years ago and I find it's really difficult, especially for military spouses, because we have this all like I can do all the things I've done all the things, I can continue to do all the things to identify oneself as a caregiver, despite all the things you continue to add to your plate that are in fact, they're giving. Do you think it's easy to identify those people or to have them identify themselves?

You know, that's a really interesting question. And I don't really know the answer to that. What I can say is that there's a lot of caregivers out there who are caregiving that don't know. And maybe it's because it needs more exposure, if that makes sense. I did not consider myself a military caregiver until I was introduced to the Elizabeth Dole Foundation. And I think it's because I didn't realize I just went into mode, right. I, you know, my husband came home in 2004. From my rack, I remember the first time I had to call for help. And that was a different time back then, you know, the time was completely different. There wasn't a lot of programs in place we didn't know about traumatic brain injury. So I just went into action and knew that I had to save my family, right, and we almost lost our home. I've almost lost him three times. I knew that I had to take action for my family to survive. And it wasn't until 2011 that I even heard the term military caregiver. And I had to ask myself, Yes, I take into appointments. Yes, I am. On the phone advocating for him. Yes, I do all these things. I am a military caregiver. So I often ask other spouses, do you do these things? And they'll say, Yes, Jerry, I do those. And I said, You're a military caregiver. And they they never really realized it because they didn't understand. And then I want to get them involved. Right. So So that's part of my mission to is to help them understand and help them see that they are a military caregiver. So I'm not really sure, Jenny, I think it's a come to terms thing. It's an exposure thing. And I know Jen and I were talking back a couple weeks ago when we first chatted about a mentorship and how I kind of see myself for those young military spouses who are coming up to answer that question of what if this happens, and my dissertation is really kind of focused on, I would love them to read it, because I was not prepared. Yeah, we're what happened to me, when my husband went in, when I married him, I was 20. So I was a little I was younger than my daughter is now. But I was this wife and we lost a baby. Right after that happened. And about three months into our marriage, we lost our first baby. And I remember he had to go to drill or he was going to get busted rink. And I put that in my dissertation. I was angry. But I didn't understand what it meant for the call to service. I didn't understand that. So as a you know, now, you know, we've been married for next year, and we 30 years. And I was all these years a military spouse. And then in two eras, I realized when I was writing my dissertation that I was a pre 911 spouse and a post 911 spouse. So I have two different experiences in two different worlds. The worst thing that my husband went to before 911 was floods and tornadoes. And then he, you know, after 911, I knew right then that day that our world was changed. And so there's those two levels of fear, right? I think the first time I ever got scared was when he was going to work at the Olympics and 96, and the bomb went off. And there was no cell phones back then. So I couldn't call him. Or at least we weren't rich enough to have a cell phone back then. But, you know, I think that was the first time I was ever scared. But there was two different scares, if that makes sense. So I would like to be a mentor to those and really kind of be that wit method of preparedness for those spouses who were haven't really had that experience that I've had just to be prepared. Because, you know, I don't want to ever see anyone go through what I had to go through. And I'm just grateful to be able to, to give back in that manner.

Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like to me that the way that you made sense of, of everything you went through is going back to what you described yourself as an education or doing that research. And I appreciate you bringing awareness to what a military caregiver is because even I was unaware of that. And I think that when we choose or we find ourselves in this military life, a lot of labels were unaware of, or there's a lot of descriptions were unaware of that if we just knew about them, we would know what resources could potentially be available, you know, to us. And so I think it's wonderful that with everything that you went through, and thank you for sharing all of that. And I understand that you probably very candid about this because it is in your dissertation and you actively openly talk about it, but I appreciate you sharing it again. And I hope that it's a way for our listeners to find that reassurance. Because I find that people that do listen to our show tend to be new, they tend to be new spouses or they're young. They're young in the service and and they don't know a lot. And before they can try to figure it out, they have to move again or, you know, something changes. And so I really appreciate you being on to share that you've been through all that experience, you know, pre post nine, a pre 911 and post 911. And that you really want to be a resource to our military families today.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a real honor to be able to do to do what I do, and educate. And you're so right, there are a lot of labels. And those often are associated with resources that they don't really know is available to them, you know, whether it be scholarship, or Blue Star Family Programs, right, just so many things, and to be able to give that back to our community is amazing. And, you know, I'm not a podcast person, like, like you both are, but I did start this new, this new program called FlyerTalk, which is based off nudie Jenny, which is on Fridays, and it is that ability, it brings that ability for 30 minutes every Friday, to align resources with those out in the community, in a way to help families realize that, hey, these things are available, and oh, wow, I didn't know about them. Or maybe I qualify, you know, those types of things. So that is part of my mission. But I also, I find a lot that when I do talk with families, they just sometimes there's so many things that are available that they get lost. And so to be able to educate them on that and list them, you know, I have some of them listed on our Blue Star Families page for Dayton, but you just can't cover them all. So it's the conversations individually with them that helped me think, oh, you know what, I can help you. Here's this. So I'm one of those people who love to talk to families one on one, and get to know them, and best align them with things. It's a miracle, how many things I've collected since 2004. I would probably be as rich as Bill Gates, if I had $1 for every place I've connected with since 2004.

Oh, my goodness. That's incredible. Jerry, thank you so much for sharing all of this. I do want to talk just a little bit about your dissertation because we've hinted at it a number of times now. And so can you tell us a little bit about it? And how I think you're in my perspective, you're using it as a tool to empower our community, you know, to be more aware of, you know, PTSD and traumatic brain injury.

Yeah, thanks for asking. So my dissertation is available. I did publish it on Barnes and Noble. So it is available to for purchase on Barnes and Noble. I did that because I didn't want it to be just this academic work sitting in in a digital library. And I mean, let's be serious, who really reads those right? Not the average everyday citizen is going to go look for Jerry maples, dissertation, right. So I wanted to reach military families. I wanted to reach those out in the civilian community who wanted to understand what military life was like. And I wanted to bring awareness to military caregivers, because like we said before, they really oftentimes maybe don't even realize they're a military caregiver herself. So my dissertation is opportunity for people to identify themselves and see their self in my story. So what I did was I went all the way back to my childhood. And I asked myself, Where did my origin the strength come from? Because I had to realize that it was my strength that I developed, to be able to manage all the things that I manage, and to be the best caregiver, I could be to my husband. And so it's my story. And you know, for those out there listening, everyone has a story. And your story can make a difference. And I realized that while I was sitting in my PhD class, and my professor asked me to write a scholarly personal narrative, which I shed tears, and it was then that I realized that it was my childhood and all the challenges that I had went through. That made me the strong person I am today. So I started off with realizing that I was a National Guard spouse. I remembered the times when we were struggling financially, when I had to literally ask my mom if she would buy diapers, because my husband was he wasn't able to get a job because a lot of at that time, and that posts in that pre 911 era. Employers didn't want to hire a weekend warrior. That's what they labeled him a weekend warrior. Oh, well, you're gonna be gone for two weeks in the summer. I can't have that like that was the attitude back then. And we lived through that the whole time. He was dedicated to service. It didn't matter that we were struggling and then we had our cars repossessed we had all these things happen to us. We continued the path, the service. And when he did leave a whole host of other things happen. So what I did was I interviewed five other military caregivers who ranged from the National Guard Reserve. And I connected it to education. And I also focused on the educational challenges from our kids. And what I realized was we all had very real similarities. We all went to our moms. You know, we all had that. With our moms, we all had similar challenges. So these were all the themes that came out of this are children in their educational setting, it faced similar challenges. I literally had a teacher tell me that my son should be fine. Because his dad came home. Wow. And I said, No, life does not work that way. You know, I had a young lady who was bullying my daughter, because she thought that her parents taxes paid for all the stuff that she had. Well, wow, I was like, No, and I had to watch her defend her dad's wounds, via text, message, and crying. And so these are the things that our family has endured. But they've all made us stronger, and closer, and the mission much stronger. Right, the mission to serve and help others out in the community understand that these are the unique things about a military family. And these are the things that we sacrifice. And at the same time, help caregivers understand that you're not alone. And also be that sense of preparedness for those who, you know, unfortunately, may come after because, you know, I think sometimes we forget that our service personnel is still there, they're still in Iraq, they're still in Afghanistan, they're still stationed across the world, and traumatic brain injury, and PTSD is not going to go away. And I will say this, too, I will add this, even in our families, they look at my husband, and they think he's fine. Because they don't see those wounds, they don't see those struggles, they don't see the frustration, they don't see the headache, the things that he has to endure, on a daily basis, the chronic pain, all these things, they don't see that because they're not here. So when you see him out in the community, they think he's just fine. So invisible wounds can be a real challenge, but they're real. And so my dissertation kind of covers all of that, and wraps it up in how education has made a difference. One of the spouses that I interviewed is a doctor as well, and a professor, some of them are still striving to get to there to seek higher education. And they're amazing. They're amazing. And so I was honored to interview them and share their story. And I will say that I probably made Kleenex, very, very rich during that time, because it was the toughest thing that I have ever done in my life, is writing in writing that it was hard to see at times, because I was crying. And I was I had to go back and correct all my errors. But hopefully it helps others understand,

I think the most beautiful thing that you're doing, I think it's twofold. One, it's a form of self feeling for you, you know, to go through, you know, to be able to express all of that, and to serve others just as what you've been doing, you know, this whole time. So I think for me, it's part of why I love what I do with podcasting and amplifying our stories and resources for military families. Because, you know, I think about my background as a Goldstar. Daughter, and how much I lacked a growing up. And it was really only in the recent years that I understood what Goldstar families with the definition was I didn't identify with that till recently. And through that process, I've been able to find my own self healing, and being able to help others with my own story. So So Jerry, thank you so much for sharing all that. I'm sure people will be very interested in getting your dissertation. Yeah. So thank you so much for that a genuine I just wanna check in with you see if you had any thoughts about anything that Jerry shared?

I have a lot of feelings. I don't know that I have any like solidified thoughts that are gonna come out of my mouth. I have a lot of feelings about what Jerry said. You know, there's always the differences and active duty communities, reserve communities, National Guard, there are differences and there are but there are far more similarities. And so, you know, many of the things she spoke about are things that I have either personally experienced in the Active Duty community or have friends that have and I have a very similar outlook as Jerry is like, hey, let's sit down have coffee. Let's talk about it. Like we also keep Kleenex in business here. In California a lot. Because, you know, I found that the more that I talked about the experiences I've had, the more willing other people are. And that's what gets people the help they need, which is I ended up becoming an outreach coordinator for a mental health clinic because of my own experience and with TBI and PTSD, you know, so grateful for the work you do. I love that you call yourself a mentor and continue to mentor those coming up. I think that has been the greatest gift of being an active duty spouse is the mentors that I've had in the community to bring me along, as we've done this life.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to say, you know, to you, thank you, for all you do, Jenny, and you to Jen, because I think it's so important. And it's kind of like, you know, we continued service, right? We have kind of this service before, and now this continued service that we keep on doing and it does make a difference. It really does. So I appreciate both of you.

Thank you so much. And I was just thinking that through everything you shared, you really give off this feeling of validation and acceptance of like, you know, you are a military caregiver, because of a, b and c like don't discount, like the sacrifices that you gave, you know, that you have made, you know, for the family for the service, and everything. So, I love it. Well, Jerry, I think we had a fantastic conversation today felt very heartfelt. Like I feel I feel full. In my heart right now. I feel really good. For people that want to seek out your mentorship, or they want to learn more about your dissertation. How can they get ahold of you? How can they find you?

Yeah, so they can find me on LinkedIn. It's Jerry Lynn strobing Maples on LinkedIn or feel free to email me at G Maples at Blue Star fam.org. And that is my Blue Star Families email address. So they can most welcome do that. Either way is fine. But probably the easiest ways is on my LinkedIn, and then we can connect right away and and start a conversation. So I welcome them to do that. I'm here to help. I'm here to align and network.

Yeah, and it's easier now because we're all at home. So we're gonna just jump on a zoom call.

Yes, yes, we will all be I'll be available via zoom.

Awesome. I love it, Jerry. Well, Jerry, thank you again, so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here and just connecting with you and knowing that there are people like you that exist in our community. So thank you again for your presence and for being here.

Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. I've really enjoyed it.

Awesome. And to genuine thank you for CO hosting with me. As always, I really appreciate your time. Absolutely love being here. Yeah, and to our listeners if you need if you want to get Jarius contact information that will be provided in the show notes as well as on our website holding down the fort podcast.com. With that said, we want to thank you all so much for listening. We hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story, so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. With that said, we look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Tune in next time