How to Use Facial Decoding for Better Networking and Communication

Speaker: 00:00:01

I love etymology, which is a scientific

study of the origin and evolution

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of a word or of sayings semantic.

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Meaning now.

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Some of, you may have heard the

term high brow or low brow before.

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The terms, highbrow and lowbrow come

from phrenology, the 19th century

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science of regarding the shape of

the skull as a key to intelligence.

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Uh, high forehead meant.

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Hi intelligence, a low one.

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Not so much.

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Well, the so-called science of phrenology

isn't used anymore for a number of

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different reasons, not the least

of which is that it led to notable

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episodes of racism and prejudice.

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Um, but what if we could use physionomy.

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The art of understanding other people

based on their facial features.

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To unlock the keys to

better communication.

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Welcome to episode 180

5 of this shit works.

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A podcast dedicated to

all things networking.

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Relationship building

and business development.

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I'm your host, Julie Brown.

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Speaker author and networking coach.

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And today I am joined by Brian gawky,

a facial decoding expert who is going

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to discuss how we can discover how

people like to be interacted with.

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Simply by looking at

the shape of their face.

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Are you skeptical about this topic?

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I would be surprised if you weren't, which

is why I want to have this discussion.

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My guest today thinks that the face

is a map of what we've been through

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when it speaks volumes about people,

without them having to say a word.

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And if we can learn to decode

it, we can easily build rapport

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and strengthen our relationships.

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And isn't that what this

podcast is all about.

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So without further ado,

Brian, welcome to the podcast.

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Brian: Thank you for having me.

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Julie: Yeah, of course.

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Um, find this fascinating.

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My first question would be briefly,

how does someone get involved in this

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expertise, technically facial decoding?

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Like how do you become involved in it and

then become an expert in a speaker on it?

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Brian: Sure.

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Fluke Circumstance.

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Like most things in life,

it was very much unplanned.

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I had a friend who was coming to Dallas.

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I live in Dallas, Texas.

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She was coming into town for a

trade show and she said, you need to

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come meet this guy who's a speaker

and he's over at the trade show.

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I'm like, why do I need to meet this guy?

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She said, he reads faces.

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And I go, oh yeah, let me

rush over there for that one.

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You know, I thought there's no

way I've got over here, body

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language, books, everything.

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I'm an introvert at heart.

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And so I Like every good introvert

wanted to study people to figure

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out how to interact with them.

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And I went over there, but I

thought since I've never heard

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of this, this is total BS.

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I'm gonna go blow holes in this guy.

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He's gonna say generic things that

are known as Barnum statements,

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which are, Oh, you've had a hard

time in life or something so

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generic it applies to everyone.

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Julie: Is that come from like

Barnum and Bailey circus?

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Oh, okay.

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Very I see.

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I love entomology.

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Like, I love entomology so much.

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Okay.

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Brian: that's exactly right.

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And so I went over there and I was

like, I'm going to get this guy.

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I'm approved.

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He's a fraud.

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And he sat us down at dinner and

without, without us saying a word,

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there were six, eight people with us.

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And he dissected every single

person to a T including me.

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And I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, what is this?

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And so he had a book and what happened

was he was an attorney who went to the

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pretty prestigious school here in Texas,

uh, Texas Christian university, AKA TCU.

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And he went there for

undergrad and then law school.

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Well, while he was studying, he

found phrenology that it's taught to

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attorneys for jury consulting, and

he ended up loving it so much that he

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left his law profession and decided to

teach that around the world full time.

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And he created books, he created

flashcards, and it's been around

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since the Greeks, where they

started trying to understand people

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based on their facial features.

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And what he found was he had such

incredible good luck and I guess

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look is a bad term when he used the

skill, he got good feedback from it.

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And so much so that what he would

do when he was traveling is he

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would actually go to fairs and other

places and set up a booth and just

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say, Hey, let me do it for free.

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And that way he got feedback

that wasn't biased from people.

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And so I thought, okay, I'll

study this and I'll see.

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And as I mentioned, I

was kind of an introvert.

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I was on the help desk when I found

this book and I was great at body

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language, but body language is reactive.

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And I'm like, wait, this is the

first proactive skill I can use.

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So I bought the book.

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I bought the flashcards.

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I still keep them on my desk to this

day to show people, and then it's

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kind of hard to see with the light.

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And I would take them out and I

started getting feedback on, and it

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helped me go from being on the help

desk to regional vice president of

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sales, because once I learned to focus

on other people, two things happen.

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One, I got on my own way, you

know, so many times as being an

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introvert, we're overthinking

things that I was making it about.

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Oh, what do they think about me instead

of how do I build a bond with them?

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And number two is when you're

in sales, especially we get

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what's called commission breath.

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Cause we're so focused on what

we want to push as our agenda.

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But when we learn to alter it,

it's like going to another country.

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Instead of demanding that they speak

English, you learn basic phrases of their

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language and it changes the engagement.

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Julie: Right.

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Okay.

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So let's talk a little bit about

the facial features that you

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mostly look at for, analysis.

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Where do we start on the face?

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Brian: I start with eyebrows.

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But the reason for that is

because you can see eyebrows.

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Julie: my glasses off so you can see

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Brian: Well, actually,

here's the funny thing.

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If you put your glasses back

on, most people pick glasses

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that match their eyebrows.

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So

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Julie: Oh, I guess I do.

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Brian: So that's the funny thing.

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That's why I teach eyebrows.

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Two reasons.

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One is eyebrows lead to eye

contact, but you can also see

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them from across the room.

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So, for example, if you're going to

event a networking event and you don't

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know the people you're going to meet,

you I start with here because then it

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leads to eye contact, but you can also

figure out just from eyebrow height and

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eyebrow shape, the very, very basics.

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I could talk about eyebrows for

half a day, but the very basics are

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the higher the eyebrow, the more

time they need to make a decision.

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I just did a post about this on

Instagram today and take time.

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Um, the higher eyebrow, you imagine

data trying to race down the

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forehead to get into the eye, the

higher the eyebrow, you can only

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go so fast, go over the speed bump.

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And then try and speed up again versus

somebody's eyebrow, who's very low,

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sits almost on top of their eye.

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Those are people who

make decisions very fast.

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So data can race down

their forehead very fast.

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So if you walk into and you meet someone

and the eyebrows higher, they're gonna

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need more time to process the decision.

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If the eyebrows sitting on top of

the eye, get to the point faster.

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And you mentioned earlier that we talked

about this in our everyday phrases.

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So when we talk about in comedy, There's

highbrow humor and lowbrow humor.

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Highbrow humor is when somebody tells

you a joke and you got to kind of

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think about it and then you laugh.

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Lowbrow humor is jackass

and three stooges.

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Julie: Yeah.

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Brian: So we talk about face, uh, faces

all the time in our everyday language.

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And the reason for that is it was

taught also to authors and artists.

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So not just attorneys, but also

to people with disabilities.

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But I call it the triple A

attorneys, authors, and artists.

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Why?

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Because authors in older books didn't have

a picture for every character in the book.

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Men wore suits, women wore dresses.

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So you couldn't expand

upon their wardrobe.

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The only two ways to describe characters

in a book were through their actions

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and through their facial features.

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Julie: Mm hmm.

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Brian: And then if you've ever

watched any Disney show, read

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any fairy tale, what do they do?

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They tell us about the people

based on what they draw.

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And that's why no matter where

you go in the world, Villains

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look the same, which is vampires.

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You name it.

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Heroes look the same.

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Someone who takes care of people

have all the rounded features.

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It's because they all

took the same courses.

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So we've been taught our entire

life how to understand people

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based on their facial features.

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It just wasn't a formal training

like we're learning today.

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Julie: So, it, the eyebrows, is

that the only thing it's telling

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you is how quickly they make

decisions and process information,

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Brian: That's just the height of it.

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There's three basic shapes of eyebrows.

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There are straight eyebrows, which

is get straight to the point.

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There's angled eyebrows.

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What's my angle?

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Help me understand it.

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And then there's rounded eyebrows,

which are, they think about the people

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around them first and themselves second.

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So I like, I always start off the

presentations with, let me teach you

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how to get free food or drinks, upgrades

in a hotel or upgrades on an airplane.

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Julie: Yeah, let's do that.

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I love getting free shit.

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Brian: Yeah.

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So the first part is if you

want free food and drink, the

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first place you can go practice.

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This is servers.

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Why?

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Because servers are overworked and

underpaid, but you can throw me into the

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bus and say, Hey, I heard this podcast.

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And this guy, Brian said that

your eyebrows kind of explained

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a little bit about you.

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Can I ask you about

what your eyebrows say?

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And people go, yes.

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And when you get it right, they're like,

wait, wait, let me get somebody else.

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And they start bringing people over.

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And when you do it all of a sudden,

they're like, can we get you anything?

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You're like, yes, you can.

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So that's cool.

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Julie: Get me all the free shit.

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Brian: Oh, yes.

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And then if let's say you're going to a

hotel and you want to ask for upgrades.

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Well, if they have a straight eyebrow,

you know, to get straight to the point.

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So you can just walk in and

say, I'd like an upgrade.

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Julie: Are there any upgrades

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Brian: Exactly.

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If it's an angled upgrade, are you the

person who can help me get an upgrade?

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Because it's what's in it for them.

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And especially if you have

status with the hotel, you can

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say, Hey, I'm a diamond member.

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Are you the person who can

help me with an upgrade?

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And if it's a rounded eyebrow, they

think about the people around them.

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You can say, Oh, that

flight was just obnoxious.

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I'm just, I would love a place I

could stretch out in maybe a little

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larger room to walk around in.

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And then they'll go, Oh,

I can get you an upgrade.

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And those same skills can

be used on the airplane.

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So I'll go to the airports

and I'll give a great example.

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I was in Indianapolis one time trying

to get home to Dallas, but they wanted

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me to fly to LGA or LaGuardia airport.

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Spend six hours there

and then catch a flight.

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It was gonna be like 14

hours with the trail.

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I'm like, nope, not going to do that.

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So I went to the airport early.

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The lady working at the gate, cause

they're the ones that have the power.

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She had rounded eyebrows and I

knew there were storms coming in.

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That's why my flight was being.

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Uh, Delayed and moved around everything.

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So my first question, because she

had rounded eyebrows was, Hey, how

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are your co workers doing today?

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Because they think about the people

around them first themselves.

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Second, she said, they're all doing

a cast that I know it's your fault

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because you guys control the weather

and the pilots and the flight

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attendants and the maintenance.

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You know, it's all your fault.

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And she laughed.

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And I said, And how are you doing today?

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Is everybody being nice to you?

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She said, Yes, I said, Okay, great.

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Look, I'm on the eight o'clock flight, the

one that's gonna have to go to LaGuardia.

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You know, I saw there's

a three o'clock flight.

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I have the second best seat in the house.

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If there's any way to get down that three

o'clock flight, I would just love it.

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Julie: Mm hmm.

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Brian: So do you think I got

on the three o'clock flight?

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Julie: Yeah.

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Brian: I also got bumped

to first class and

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Julie: that.

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Brian: it's all about people have

the power and this is just a skill.

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It's not the only skill I

read body language books.

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I'm currently reading a book

called the light switch.

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I think you guys would love it.

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Um, it's written by a former FBI agent

who ran the behavioral analysis unit

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where they were teaching FBI agents.

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How to figure out who they want to be

an asset to flip to come work for the U.

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S.

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against their country.

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It's a fantastic book.

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And so I'm constantly

always working on my skills.

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But this was the first skill that one,

it kept me in the moment with a person.

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I think everyone needs to know

how to read body language.

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The top two body language books

I recommend are number one.

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Janine drivers.

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You say more than you think.

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That's what does my body language

say about me when I walk into a room?

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It's good.

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It's filled with excellent exercises for

you to examine your own body language.

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Then I like Joe Navarro is what

everybody is saying because it's a

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very picturesque book that says what

is other people's body language saying?

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So I do think it's an important skill.

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But what I realized is you have to

be in the room and that's reactive

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skills that you're paying attention.

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Like, you know, is somebody

being put off on me?

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Am I doing good?

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Are they crossing their arms?

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Are they leaning away?

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But with faces, when I'm giving

you my time and attention in a day

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and age where these lovely devices

connect us to the world, I'm holding

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up my phone for since we're on audio.

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Um, our phones connect us to the world,

but they disconnect us from each other.

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And when you're Yeah.

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And when you're learning to actually look

someone in the eye and give them your time

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and attention, it's what sets you apart

in the day and age where smartwatches

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and everything else distract us.

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Julie: Yeah.

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Let's talk a little bit about the lips.

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I've heard you say you can read

a lot about somebody from the

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shape of their upper lip or,

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Brian: Yes, that's correct.

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And there's a cheat sheet.

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If anybody wants to get it, you can go

to just get the cheat sheet and it'll

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cover, or sorry, get the cheat sheet.

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com and it'll cover eyebrow height,

the three eyebrow shapes, and a

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few other features, including lips.

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But when we say the phrase, keep a stiff

upper lip, that means be stoic, right?

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Hold your emotions in.

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That's based on when people

have thinner upper lips.

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You know, not to ask a lot of personal

questions until they feel comfortable.

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So I've done a lot of

traveling around the world.

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When you go to former communist

countries, you'll see a lot of thinner

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upper lips or flatter upper lips.

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Why?

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They couldn't have a public opinion

about things that was risking death.

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So if you watch body language, it's called

a lip concealment where you go like this.

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When you're keeping

your mouth shut, right?

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So as you do that over time, what happens

is there's 42 muscles in the face.

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The mind creates movement,

movement creates muscle.

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So if you're, let's say as a kid, you

were raised in a household that you were

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told kids are to be seen and not heard.

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Well, every time you start to talk, they

shut you down and you go, and that will

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literally flatten out your lip over time.

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It's also the reason why the number

one plastic surgery right now is lip

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enhancement and nobody really knew why.

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It's because this is our personal lip.

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Our upper lip is our personal lip,

and we want to seem more approachable.

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Now, here's a funny thing.

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Women have been changing or altering

their lips for centuries because

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: 00:14:00

what someone will do is they'll

actually draw on with lipstick, larger

322

: 00:14:04

upper lips than they actually have.

323

: 00:14:07

So if you ever have gone up to see,

especially like an older, like in,

324

: 00:14:10

let's say late seventies, sometimes

you'll see they'll draw their lipstick

325

: 00:14:13

larger than their lips actually are.

326

: 00:14:16

Julie: know that was gonna be my

question when you were talking about

327

: 00:14:18

eyebrows cuz especially women women

very rarely have naked eyebrows

328

: 00:14:22

like we we Put eyebrow pen on them.

329

: 00:14:26

We put gel on them our eyebrows

that you see on our face are usually

330

: 00:14:30

much smaller than But then what

we show because of makeup, but

331

: 00:14:34

then also with lip enhancements.

332

: 00:14:36

Like, so how, how are you reading

people who was, I guess, mostly females.

333

: 00:14:41

Um, because we have a

face on mostly every day.

334

: 00:14:45

Brian: Great.

335

: 00:14:45

I have an analogy for this because

I have a six year old one time we

336

: 00:14:49

went to a birthday party and they

had face, uh, face painters there.

337

: 00:14:52

And what happened is whatever her

face was painted as is what she

338

: 00:14:56

projected to the world and how

she acted at the exact same time.

339

: 00:14:59

So she went as a little lion

and so she was actually a tiger.

340

: 00:15:03

So she would walk around as a tiger go

raw and everybody treated her like a tiger

341

: 00:15:07

because they could see on her face What

she wanted to be treated like makeup is in

342

: 00:15:11

plastic surgery or no different So the if

you do a study on Especially younger girls

343

: 00:15:17

who feel out of control of their life

What they'll do is they'll shave off if

344

: 00:15:20

they have rounded or straight eyebrows and

they'll draw on angled eyebrows Because

345

: 00:15:25

angled eyebrows are, what's my angle?

346

: 00:15:26

Help me understand it.

347

: 00:15:27

But they're also seen as

authoritarian eyebrows as in, I

348

: 00:15:31

want to be involved in the process.

349

: 00:15:33

And so nobody knew why they were doing it.

350

: 00:15:34

And sometimes you see where they've

overdone the angle in their eye where it

351

: 00:15:38

looks ridiculous, but that's the reason

why that they draw in the angled eyebrows.

352

: 00:15:43

So when you are altering your face, you're

attempting to change how, what you present

353

: 00:15:47

to the world and how people respond to it.

354

: 00:15:50

So we know how we do that with clothing.

355

: 00:15:51

It's just there's ways to do it

with facial features as well.

356

: 00:15:55

Julie: Do you think there are

any ethical considerations,

357

: 00:15:59

surrounding the use of this tool

358

: 00:16:03

Brian: I used to

359

: 00:16:03

Julie: we're using this tool in diverse

cultures or multicultural settings?

360

: 00:16:08

Like, what are, what are the

ethics around it or ethical

361

: 00:16:11

Brian: so far I haven't found anything

that has really stood out to me.

362

: 00:16:14

And the reason for it is I'm not

saying every gender has this or

363

: 00:16:18

every race has this because it's

about what do your features for

364

: 00:16:21

your particular face say about you?

365

: 00:16:24

So, for example, Everybody can have

large lips or small lips, and with

366

: 00:16:28

having larger ears or larger eyes,

it's based on specifically your

367

: 00:16:32

features, and it's not just a feature.

368

: 00:16:34

It's a combination of features.

369

: 00:16:36

So it's kind of like cooking.

370

: 00:16:37

When people are learning this, they learn

eyebrows first, like eyebrow height.

371

: 00:16:41

Then they'll come to eyebrow

shape, and you work your way down

372

: 00:16:43

the face, kind of like reading a

book top to bottom, left to right.

373

: 00:16:47

I used to be really concerned about

teaching this to HR because I thought,

374

: 00:16:50

well, what if somebody doesn't get a job?

375

: 00:16:52

Based on what somebody can

learn about facial features.

376

: 00:16:55

But then you have to think

of it from the company side.

377

: 00:16:57

What's worse than a bad hire?

378

: 00:16:59

So I don't know that there's

necessarily anything that is really

379

: 00:17:02

there because it's not about judgment.

380

: 00:17:03

It's more about trying to understand

people because there are very few

381

: 00:17:06

facial features that somebody should

immediately go, Ooh, and step away from.

382

: 00:17:11

Now there's combinations of

features that I'll pay attention to.

383

: 00:17:15

And it's again, what we've

been taught over time.

384

: 00:17:17

So if I see somebody who has a very

downturn nose, and has a pointy

385

: 00:17:21

chin and has angled eyebrows.

386

: 00:17:22

I'm gonna pay more attention to

them, but it has nothing to do with

387

: 00:17:26

gender, race, anything of that nature.

388

: 00:17:29

Um, right handed, left handed, it's

all, what do their features say?

389

: 00:17:32

And because there's 42 muscles

in the face, our features

390

: 00:17:35

change constantly over time.

391

: 00:17:37

So in my presentations, I'll show

a picture of me at 18 versus 38,

392

: 00:17:42

and my ears used to stick out more.

393

: 00:17:44

My eyebrows were straight versus angled

now, and then my eyes used to angle

394

: 00:17:48

down and over time they angled back up.

395

: 00:17:50

So our facial features can change as well

based on what's going on in our, our mind.

396

: 00:17:56

So when I mentioned earlier, the mind

creates movement, movement creates muscle.

397

: 00:18:00

Well, when your parents said, stop

making that face or get stuck that

398

: 00:18:03

way, there's actually some truth to it.

399

: 00:18:06

Julie: When my husband says

to me, don't make that face.

400

: 00:18:09

I'm like, it's the only face I have.

401

: 00:18:10

Brian: Right.

402

: 00:18:12

Julie: Um, I've, I've listened to,

watched a couple of your videos and,

403

: 00:18:18

um, I think, I think they're great.

404

: 00:18:21

The videos where you're

speaking in front of crowds.

405

: 00:18:23

And I heard you say in one of

the videos that we, for better

406

: 00:18:28

communication, need to learn to speak.

407

: 00:18:31

other people's language instead

of pushing our own agenda.

408

: 00:18:35

I mean,

409

: 00:18:35

Brian: A

410

: 00:18:36

Julie: I mean, we're all trying

to get something out of, you

411

: 00:18:39

know, out of our efforts.

412

: 00:18:40

And for most people who listen

to this podcast, it's networking

413

: 00:18:43

and relationship building.

414

: 00:18:44

So what do you mean by speaking

other people's language?

415

: 00:18:48

I mean, I'm assuming there's the

literal, yes, when you go to another

416

: 00:18:50

country, try to speak their language,

but what are we talking about when

417

: 00:18:53

we're all speaking the same time?

418

: 00:18:55

Brian: very simple one is people learn

through three basic sub modalities.

419

: 00:18:59

That is auditory, visual

and kinesthetic learning.

420

: 00:19:02

So if someone has In proportion to their,

their size of their face, larger ears

421

: 00:19:07

than they tend to be auditory people.

422

: 00:19:09

So you'd say things like, Hey,

does this sound like a good idea?

423

: 00:19:12

Do you hear where I'm coming

from or what I hear you saying?

424

: 00:19:16

So those are with people with larger ears.

425

: 00:19:18

If people have larger eyes, then

they're more visual learners.

426

: 00:19:21

So you'd say things

like, well, picture this.

427

: 00:19:23

Do you see where I'm coming from now?

428

: 00:19:25

And I'm bad.

429

: 00:19:27

I will hang up a physical phone call

and say, okay, I'll see you later.

430

: 00:19:31

Why?

431

: 00:19:31

Because I'm extremely visual.

432

: 00:19:33

If I only used visual terms talking

to an auditory person, they're not

433

: 00:19:37

always going to hear what I'm saying.

434

: 00:19:38

So you learn to add it all in.

435

: 00:19:40

And then the third

component is kinesthetic.

436

: 00:19:42

They're hands on learners.

437

: 00:19:44

And the facial feature that

represents that is below the

438

: 00:19:47

nose and above the upper lip.

439

: 00:19:48

If it's a very wide area right here,

it's called the, uh, not the frenulum.

440

: 00:19:52

I can't think of the term right now,

but when that's why those tend to

441

: 00:19:55

be hands on physical people who like

to learn with hands on learning.

442

: 00:19:59

So you'd say things like, well, once we

get up and get moving and once we take

443

: 00:20:03

charge and here's the crazy part, if

you're going to go meet in with someone

444

: 00:20:07

who does podcasts or they put out

press releases or they've got a blog.

445

: 00:20:13

They will write in the

language that they prefer.

446

: 00:20:16

So one time I went to, there's a

company here in Dallas I did training

447

: 00:20:18

for, and I went and grabbed one

of the blogs of their CEO, it was

448

: 00:20:21

actually a press release, and it was,

we're gonna hit the ground running.

449

: 00:20:25

And once we get up, we're just

gonna tackle the competition.

450

: 00:20:29

So when I met with them, what did I do?

451

: 00:20:30

I used kinesthetic words.

452

: 00:20:33

Why?

453

: 00:20:33

I want to speak his language,

454

: 00:20:38

Julie: I can't stop looking at myself

trying to figure out what my face is

455

: 00:20:42

saying like it's I know the listeners

This is not a visual medium But we

456

: 00:20:46

you know Brian and I can see each

other and I'm feeling a little self

457

: 00:20:50

conscious right now because I feel

like what is he saying about my Eyes,

458

: 00:20:53

what is he saying about my lips?

459

: 00:20:55

Yeah

460

: 00:20:58

Brian: I call this the skill to make

you want to lean in and look away

461

: 00:21:00

because once, once you learn it,

that's why I purposely put a picture

462

: 00:21:05

of myself up like six slides into my

keynotes because I want people to see

463

: 00:21:10

my face and know it's not that bad.

464

: 00:21:12

But what was funny is the gentleman

that taught to me great guy, but

465

: 00:21:15

what he would teach it, you'd go

sit in a chair in the middle of

466

: 00:21:18

the room and he pointed your face.

467

: 00:21:20

Okay.

468

: 00:21:21

And you're like, okay, it's not awkward

enough to be in the center of the room,

469

: 00:21:24

but he's literally pointing your face.

470

: 00:21:25

But one of the things that he

taught me over time was when

471

: 00:21:27

you're talking about other people's

facial features, what do you do?

472

: 00:21:30

You point at yourself and you say, well,

I can tell by year this that way the

473

: 00:21:34

person can see what you're talking about.

474

: 00:21:36

Versus if I do this, the whole time I

point at you, all you see is my finger

475

: 00:21:39

and we know that pointing is bad, but yes.

476

: 00:21:43

So that's why the company's called

subtle skills, because if you

477

: 00:21:46

learn this, you never have to

tell anybody what you're doing.

478

: 00:21:49

And that's the funny thing is it's

hit or miss once I, I asked normally

479

: 00:21:53

if I'm at, let's say it's a two day

event, I asked to be a day one speaker.

480

: 00:21:56

So people can come up and

talk to me afterwards.

481

: 00:21:58

And the entire reason why is

because people are fascinated by it.

482

: 00:22:01

We all want to know more about

ourselves and what are the faces saying?

483

: 00:22:04

And so what I set up, like, for example,

if I have a 60 minute keynote, I'll leave

484

: 00:22:09

the last 15 minutes for volunteers if

there's a way for them to get up on stage.

485

: 00:22:12

But if not, I hang around the events.

486

: 00:22:14

So people can come up and going

back to earlier, the thinner upper

487

: 00:22:18

lip, if somebody said, Oh, analyze

their face, I won't do it now.

488

: 00:22:24

If they come up and say, would

you analyze my face all day long?

489

: 00:22:28

But I know automatically people are

guarded with that thinner upper lip.

490

: 00:22:32

And so if they have that and somebody

else volunteers them, I know they're

491

: 00:22:35

not going to be happy with it.

492

: 00:22:36

And I should write down a piece of paper.

493

: 00:22:38

They're going to disagree

with everything I say.

494

: 00:22:40

And because we were talking

about a mutual friend that I

495

: 00:22:42

want you to meet Janine Driver.

496

: 00:22:44

Janine is a rock star when she's on stage.

497

: 00:22:46

She shares all of her stories.

498

: 00:22:48

She even over shares sometimes.

499

: 00:22:50

And when she gets off stage, if

people ask her personal questions, she

500

: 00:22:53

goes, Why do you need to know that?

501

: 00:22:55

So it's once you get to know

people, you can just recognize

502

: 00:22:58

these features and know, do I

need to keep it strictly business?

503

: 00:23:01

Should I make it personal?

504

: 00:23:02

But you're right.

505

: 00:23:03

As soon as people know what, you

know, then they're a little more

506

: 00:23:05

like, Oh, how are you doing?

507

: 00:23:07

Let me just hide my face the entire time.

508

: 00:23:09

Julie: Okay, so we'll do let's do

a quick read read my face quickly

509

: 00:23:14

and I promise I won't get upset

510

: 00:23:16

Brian: So I'll tell you one

of the things that stands out.

511

: 00:23:18

That first is you have very full

upper eyelids and that's one of

512

: 00:23:21

the things that's on a cheat sheet.

513

: 00:23:23

So I was raised in the day and age of Dr.

514

: 00:23:25

Seuss.

515

: 00:23:25

So the more lid you see, the

more they think in terms of we.

516

: 00:23:28

So I know you like to do

things with other people.

517

: 00:23:30

You prefer that doing things alone.

518

: 00:23:32

So if I was going to do anything, I

would invite you to go, but I would

519

: 00:23:35

also, when talking to you, use inclusive

language like, well, once we do this

520

: 00:23:40

and once we get started, when we work

together, because that's how you think

521

: 00:23:43

is with fuller upper eyelids, your eyes

522

: 00:23:46

Julie: for makeup too

523

: 00:23:47

Brian: Yes.

524

: 00:23:48

Well, and but you choose to

highlight it with your makeup.

525

: 00:23:50

Right?

526

: 00:23:52

Um, your eyes angle up slightly.

527

: 00:23:54

So you were more the optimist

that you want to hear about

528

: 00:23:56

the positive side of things.

529

: 00:23:57

If I have to come deliver bad news

to start with the positive, then

530

: 00:24:00

work down to the negative instead

of starting at the negative.

531

: 00:24:04

Good, good, strong jaws.

532

: 00:24:05

Once you make up your mind, you can

easily latch in and hold your ground.

533

: 00:24:08

You're pretty much a movable.

534

: 00:24:09

So if I had to come and convince you

to change your mind, I better bring

535

: 00:24:13

facts, figures and data and a legitimate

reason because you don't waver easily.

536

: 00:24:17

Julie: Right.

537

: 00:24:18

Brian: then we talked about that.

538

: 00:24:21

Um, here's a funny one.

539

: 00:24:23

When our noses tilt up slightly, that we

can always see our nostrils right away.

540

: 00:24:27

That's like saying I've got

air to share with other people.

541

: 00:24:29

So people will come up and talk to you

because they're like, Oh, she's up for

542

: 00:24:33

listening to what I'm going to talk about.

543

: 00:24:34

And she's got air to share.

544

: 00:24:35

Well, air is a very vital thing, right?

545

: 00:24:37

So if we all said, take a deep

breath, people go through their nose.

546

: 00:24:41

So when your nose angles up slightly,

That tells other people that

547

: 00:24:44

you're willing to listen and share

your time and attention as well.

548

: 00:24:48

And then, uh, race.

549

: 00:24:50

Julie: i'm like anything else

550

: 00:24:51

Brian: Oh, yeah.

551

: 00:24:52

So when you talk, you've

got talk lines right here.

552

: 00:24:54

So, um, for the people listening, what

we're talking about is it's, it's to the.

553

: 00:24:59

If you're going from the inside the mouth

to towards the ears, she's got vertical

554

: 00:25:03

lines in her chins when she smiles.

555

: 00:25:04

So that is a talk line.

556

: 00:25:06

So I know that's the way you get to know

people is through deep conversation.

557

: 00:25:09

Um, and then raise your

eyebrows up, squint down.

558

: 00:25:14

Julie: screen

559

: 00:25:14

Brian: Yeah.

560

: 00:25:14

Okay.

561

: 00:25:15

So I can't see if you have, is

there a way to make this larger?

562

: 00:25:18

Okay.

563

: 00:25:18

Squint down again for me.

564

: 00:25:20

Okay, so you have to.

565

: 00:25:21

So that's called the force

focus line right here.

566

: 00:25:23

Some people calm their

elevens in their head.

567

: 00:25:26

Julie: I should get Botox.

568

: 00:25:28

Brian: Well,

569

: 00:25:28

Julie: shouldn't be able to see them.

570

: 00:25:30

Brian: we're talking about for

the people listening is when I had

571

: 00:25:32

her squint when she raised up her

eyebrows, she's got long lines that

572

: 00:25:36

are horizontal across her forehead.

573

: 00:25:37

That's someone who does

deep intense study.

574

: 00:25:39

So while you can give her the bullet

points, you better give her the

575

: 00:25:42

user manual because she likes it.

576

: 00:25:43

She dives in deep to understand things.

577

: 00:25:46

Then when she squinted in between

her eyebrows were two vertical lines.

578

: 00:25:50

Yeah.

579

: 00:25:51

That are fairly deep.

580

: 00:25:52

And what that means is

deep, intense study.

581

: 00:25:54

When she's in the middle of something,

then she completely can zone out

582

: 00:25:57

everyone else while you're working.

583

: 00:26:00

And then, um, what else did

I see when you did that?

584

: 00:26:02

Oh, so what the interesting

area is in between your eyebrows

585

: 00:26:06

is this area right here.

586

: 00:26:07

It's a little bit, it's

called a self will pad.

587

: 00:26:10

And what that means is you could

have a micromanaging boss and it

588

: 00:26:13

wouldn't matter because you're always

thinking, what else should I be doing?

589

: 00:26:15

What else should I be doing?

590

: 00:26:16

What else should I be doing all the time?

591

: 00:26:19

So,

592

: 00:26:19

Julie: boss is terrible.

593

: 00:26:20

It's me.

594

: 00:26:21

Brian: Yeah.

595

: 00:26:23

So yes, those are all

the things I can see.

596

: 00:26:25

And this is over a very,

very small picture.

597

: 00:26:27

But what I'll do for fun is I'll go grab

a few pictures of you off of Instagram

598

: 00:26:31

and other places, and I'll put arrows.

599

: 00:26:33

And this is what people

think all the time.

600

: 00:26:35

Oh, he's just gaslighting.

601

: 00:26:36

He's just saying things are there.

602

: 00:26:38

The whole reason I send you a

picture of it is because I'm going

603

: 00:26:40

to be able to repeat exactly what

we talked about at another time.

604

: 00:26:44

So unless your face has changed

dramatically since the last time I saw

605

: 00:26:47

you, I'll be able to do the same diagnosis

or decoding your facial features every

606

: 00:26:53

single time I see you, I'm going to

say the same thing because I have a

607

: 00:26:56

procedure top to bottom, left to right.

608

: 00:26:59

Now, the only thing that may

change is like I used to have

609

: 00:27:02

straight eyebrows over time.

610

: 00:27:03

I got angled eyebrows because once I

became a corporate trainer, I didn't

611

: 00:27:07

understand the material for me.

612

: 00:27:09

To be able to, uh, and digest it, to

be able to explain it to other people.

613

: 00:27:13

So angled eyebrows don't necessarily

mean a bad thing, but they can,

614

: 00:27:16

because it's an authoritarian thing.

615

: 00:27:18

The person wants to be in control.

616

: 00:27:19

Well, if you're a corporate

trainer, that's what you are.

617

: 00:27:22

Right.

618

: 00:27:22

You have to deliver the information

or now that I teach on how to

619

: 00:27:25

understand facial features, I

have to understand the material.

620

: 00:27:28

That's my angle to then

explain it to other people.

621

: 00:27:31

So I still want to help other people learn

the skill, but I have to learn it first.

622

: 00:27:37

Julie: It's almost like you're cheating.

623

: 00:27:39

Brian: It is to a degree.

624

: 00:27:41

The funny, the cool thing is,

is people's faces are a map.

625

: 00:27:45

That tells us how to talk to each other.

626

: 00:27:46

We just haven't been formally

trained crazy part because

627

: 00:27:49

you look this up earlier.

628

: 00:27:51

Phrenology was actually the

reason that this got kicked

629

: 00:27:53

out of the academic system.

630

: 00:27:55

So once this was taught, it was part

of the education system until Henry the

631

: 00:27:59

eighth said, I don't like the idea that

beggars and vagabonds can use this skill.

632

: 00:28:04

And so when they said phrenology,

which was bumps on your head

633

: 00:28:07

is what you're born with.

634

: 00:28:08

And as you mentioned,

it was very prejudice.

635

: 00:28:10

Yes.

636

: 00:28:11

Well, they threw it out and they said,

well, we'll get rid of physiogamy,

637

: 00:28:14

which is face reading at the exact

same time, but it was still kept

638

: 00:28:17

alive to teach to the three A's

attorneys, authors and artists.

639

: 00:28:22

Julie: Yeah.

640

: 00:28:22

Brian: So it is, it is like a cheat

code, but everyone's face is just

641

: 00:28:26

telling you, here's how to talk to me.

642

: 00:28:28

We just haven't been formally taught

643

: 00:28:30

Julie: It's interesting when you think

about the, the attorneys because any

644

: 00:28:36

sort of true crime documentary, which

I've watched, which everybody knows

645

: 00:28:39

I've watched, like when they talk about

jury selection, or if they do a deep

646

: 00:28:42

dive into how they chose the jury,

I think it's so interesting how they

647

: 00:28:47

choose juries, but I don't think I've

ever heard anybody say, Oh, we do it

648

: 00:28:51

based on these features of their face.

649

: 00:28:54

It's mostly like, what are they wearing?

650

: 00:28:55

What are they doing with their hands?

651

: 00:28:56

Like how, how is their face reacting to

certain, um, stimuli in the room, whether

652

: 00:29:02

they're words or whatever, but not just

the actual Physical structure of the face.

653

: 00:29:07

Brian: the physical, the resting facial

features, give you an idea of how do

654

: 00:29:09

they take in and process information.

655

: 00:29:11

Everything else that you just

mentioned is reactionary.

656

: 00:29:14

So micro expressions by Paul Ekman, I

think most people should learn that.

657

: 00:29:17

The reason I don't focus on it is I

feel like I'd be so busy waiting for

658

: 00:29:21

your face to react that I wouldn't

be giving you the time and attention

659

: 00:29:24

that I need to, um, body language.

660

: 00:29:26

I already mentioned, I think it's huge.

661

: 00:29:28

Everybody needs to do it.

662

: 00:29:29

Um, you can look at someone.

663

: 00:29:31

We're all, we have an idea of body

language or somebody who's closed off.

664

: 00:29:35

We know not to ask him a lot.

665

: 00:29:36

If people are open, they're

open for conversation.

666

: 00:29:39

So you're right.

667

: 00:29:39

Jury attorneys use a variety of things

in what they call trial science.

668

: 00:29:44

But yes, physiognomy is one of them

or face reading is a skill that's

669

: 00:29:48

taught to some attorneys as well.

670

: 00:29:50

Julie: Yeah.

671

: 00:29:51

Well, I told you in the intro that,

yes, I was skeptical, even though I had

672

: 00:29:58

watched, you know, we have talked before

and I had watched your things, but,

673

: 00:30:01

because I had not seen it in action.

674

: 00:30:03

Um, I don't think I'm

so skeptical anymore.

675

: 00:30:07

I think there's some real shit here.

676

: 00:30:10

Brian: Yeah, I actually one of my slides

in addition to the pictures of me between

677

: 00:30:14

ages is I said, are you skeptical?

678

: 00:30:17

So was I because I was, I thought if

I hadn't heard of it and I can find

679

: 00:30:21

very few books on it, it can't be real.

680

: 00:30:23

And so I encourage people look, get the

cheat sheet, go and test it for yourself.

681

: 00:30:28

But it changed my life.

682

: 00:30:29

I've been using it for 13.

683

: 00:30:30

5 years.

684

: 00:30:32

And is it 100%?

685

: 00:30:33

No.

686

: 00:30:33

Is it high nineties?

687

: 00:30:34

Yes.

688

: 00:30:35

And I'll have to send you

some clips of the last.

689

: 00:30:39

I did a two hour presentation last

30 to 45 minutes was just people

690

: 00:30:42

coming up because this was a

very small private mastermind and

691

: 00:30:46

people always come up stoic, right?

692

: 00:30:48

Oh, they're not gonna be able to read

me and they always walk away either

693

: 00:30:51

turning red or laughing because they're

like, God, how does he know this?

694

: 00:30:54

And I'm like, it's not

695

: 00:30:56

Julie: Right.

696

: 00:30:57

Yeah.

697

: 00:30:58

Um, okay, so the cheat sheet

is get the cheat sheet.com.

698

: 00:31:03

And then what about you?

699

: 00:31:05

Um, where should people connect with you?

700

: 00:31:07

Is it LinkedIn?

701

: 00:31:08

Is it your website?

702

: 00:31:09

You mentioned Instagram, like where's

the, or Twitter I think, or X or TikTok

703

: 00:31:13

Brian: Uh, I'm pretty much agnostic.

704

: 00:31:15

I need to get better.

705

: 00:31:16

I don't do Twitter.

706

: 00:31:16

I should add that in, but on everywhere.

707

: 00:31:19

No,

708

: 00:31:20

Julie: leave it I, I think you

should be like, dominant in one

709

: 00:31:25

or two places, so I'm dominant

in Instagram and LinkedIn, so.

710

: 00:31:28

Brian: I am also, um,

for it's subtle skills.

711

: 00:31:30

Nobody can spell it, but S

U B T L E and then skills.

712

: 00:31:34

S K I L L S.

713

: 00:31:35

And what you'll see underneath

it is because it's verified.

714

: 00:31:38

It has my real name too,

which is Brian G A L K E.

715

: 00:31:41

But I'm everywhere.

716

: 00:31:42

Subtle skills.

717

: 00:31:44

Julie: Well, that's awesome.

718

: 00:31:46

Okay.

719

: 00:31:46

And I'll put links to that

in the show notes anyways.

720

: 00:31:49

Um, but this actually has been

really, really interesting.

721

: 00:31:51

I'm, I'm really glad.

722

: 00:31:53

I'm forgetting how we were introduced.

723

: 00:31:55

Brian: Kevin Kepler.

724

: 00:31:57

Julie: Kevin, Kevin, the man

with the million dollar voice.

725

: 00:32:01

Yes.

726

: 00:32:02

Yes.

727

: 00:32:02

Kevin.

728

: 00:32:03

My, my listeners will remember that voice.

729

: 00:32:05

Um, so Kevin introduces, but I'm so glad.

730

: 00:32:08

I'm so glad we did this.

731

: 00:32:08

Thank you for coming.

732

: 00:32:09

Brian: Yes.

733

: 00:32:10

Thank you for having me.

734

: 00:32:19

So.

735

: 00:32:20

What do you think now?

736

: 00:32:22

Are you still skeptical?

737

: 00:32:24

I have to tell you.

738

: 00:32:25

After I talked with Brian, he

sent me a bunch of marked up

739

: 00:32:28

images of my face, pointing out.

740

: 00:32:30

How the different parts of my face,

the shapes, the angles, et cetera, laid

741

: 00:32:34

out a roadmap for him, understanding

how I like to be communicated with.

742

: 00:32:38

And also how I like to engage with people.

743

: 00:32:40

You know what he, wasn't far off.

744

: 00:32:42

I got to tell ya.

745

: 00:32:44

Does this seem like a lot of work?

746

: 00:32:46

Yes, constantly analyzing the

features of others to determine

747

: 00:32:50

how to interact with them.

748

: 00:32:51

Seems like it would be exhausting, but

maybe it's the kind of thing, you know,

749

: 00:32:56

the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

750

: 00:32:59

In any case.

751

: 00:33:01

I really enjoyed my

conversation with Brian.

752

: 00:33:03

I walked into it thinking it was

going to be more of a side show

753

: 00:33:06

talent, if you know what I mean?

754

: 00:33:08

Funny that he referenced PT Barnum

in the beginning of our conversation.

755

: 00:33:12

But I left thinking it might

actually be a really valuable tool.

756

: 00:33:16

If you take the time and effort

into learning more about it.

757

: 00:33:21

Now.

758

: 00:33:22

Onto the drink of the week,

which sticking with a circus

759

: 00:33:25

theme is the electric circus.

760

: 00:33:27

Here's what you're going to need.

761

: 00:33:28

Three fourths sounds of gin,

three fours ounce of Madorie

762

: 00:33:32

three fours ounce of lemon juice.

763

: 00:33:33

Three, four ounce of Jenna.

764

: 00:33:35

Puppy one dash barkeep, Chinese spitters.

765

: 00:33:39

I didn't know what that was.

766

: 00:33:40

So I used her.

767

: 00:33:40

Um, regular aromatic bitters.

768

: 00:33:43

Combine all ingredients and a mixing

glass and shake with ice shake,

769

: 00:33:46

shake, shake, shake, shake straight

into a coop or a cocktail glass

770

: 00:33:50

and garnish with a lemon twist.

771

: 00:33:53

All right friends.

772

: 00:33:54

That's it for this week.

773

: 00:33:55

I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

774

: 00:33:57

If you like what you heard

today, please leave review.

775

: 00:33:59

Please do that and

subscribe to the podcast.

776

: 00:34:01

Also, please remember to share the podcast

to help it reach a larger audience.

777

: 00:34:05

If you want more.

778

: 00:34:06

Julie Brown that's me.

779

: 00:34:07

You can find my book.

780

: 00:34:08

This shit works on Amazon

or Barnes and noble.

781

: 00:34:09

You can find me on

LinkedIn at Julie Brown BD.

782

: 00:34:12

Go ahead and reach out.

783

: 00:34:13

Just let me know where

you found me when you do.

784

: 00:34:15

I'm Julie Brown underscore BD

on the Instagram, or you can

785

: 00:34:18

pop on over to my website, Julie

Brown, bd.com until next week.

786

: 00:34:22

Cheers guys.

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