Some of the most powerful moments in sports happen away from the playing field. That’s what struck me in this conversation with Buffalo Bills team chaplain Len Vanden Bos and linebacker Lorenzo Alexander. I became really interested in learning more about the role faith plays in the NFL because I started to observe things on the sidelines, after games, and during the course of the weekly schedule covering NFL teams in Miami and Washington, D.C. 

I noticed that some players were displaying their spirituality openly around the facilities and also after games meeting at midfield to kneel and pray with their competitors, I also was introduced to the concept of the team chaplain and saw that work in full force in 2007 when Washington safety Sean Taylor was killed and his teammates leaned on each other and Pastor Brett Fuller through grief and healing.  

When Bills’ safety Damar Hamlin suffered a life threatening cardiac event on the field in January 2023, I was watching at home like millions of other football fans as the team and the nation seemed to be collectively praying for a miracle.  During shots the cameras were getting on the sidelines, I caught a close up shot of the Bills’ team chaplain Len Vanden Bos praying alongside a player on the bench.  That moment made me want to understand more about how faith and belief might play more of a role in the sport than we think, and that’s when I decided I wanted to reach out to Len in hopes he would share his story.  Here we are a couple years later. I’m grateful Damar Hamlin is back playing, and I’m grateful the Buffalo Bills were open and helped share this story. I appreciate Lorenzo Alexander for being willing to sit with us and share a player's perspective as well as his personal story about the impact of the death of his friend, star safety Sean Taylor. 

In this episode, Len and Lorenzo open up about what belief really looks like in the NFL, and why it matters.

We talked about how faith shapes the locker room, steadies players in moments of tragedy, and builds a kind of brotherhood that lasts long after the season ends. Len and Lorenzo shared about how the spiritual fabric of a team can be just as important as its playbook.

What You’ll Discover:

• The role of faith inside an NFL locker room (04:44)
• Len on why the Bills created a full-time chaplain role (07:30)
• Lorenzo on what shifted after Sean Taylor’s death (16:56)
• Why belief builds brotherhood beyond the scoreboard (36:30) 
• Faith as a foundation during tragedy and crisis (47:11)

As I listened to Len and Lorenzo share their experiences, I was reminded of how faith can give athletes a way to steady themselves when the stakes feel impossibly high. Tune in to hear how NFL players’ lives can be impacted because of the community and fellowship surrounding them.

You can watch this interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/jG9wjXTqfqs 

For a full transcript and more, check out our blog post: https://www.lindsaycz.com/show-notes/buffalo-bills-16  

Check out more from the Buffalo Bills: 

Follow the Team on Instagram.

For more from Lorenzo Alexander, you can follow him on Instagram.

[00:00:20] Lindsay: Hey everybody, welcome to Things No One Tells You. Or TNOTY, as we like to call it. That was Buffalo Bill's team chaplain, Len Vanden Boss. He was sharing the interaction and what it was like. Moments after Bill's head coach Sean McDermott two years ago, motioned for his help as a Buffalo Bills safety.

[00:00:54] Len: You know, I don't know if I've gotten any better advice in my 12 years now in the league than that, but I have to remind myself of that every da,y too.

[00:01:11] Lorenzo: Right

[00:01:20] Lindsay: I have wanted to have a conversation about faith in football because of things that I've observed while covering the NFL. And they've been both things that I've seen in locker rooms and team facilities, but also things that I've seen carried out, while covering sidelines on the field. And one of those things is I started noticing that at the end of games, players from both teams will meet at midfield, and if they choose to join in on this, they will kneel, they will hold hands, they will pray.

[00:02:08] In whatever city they're playing in, that is always a place for them. After the game is done, I started to think that maybe this is something that not a lot of people know about and know exists, and so I thought maybe this would be a really interesting conversation to share. So what I discovered through this conversation with Len Vanden boss and Lorenzo Alexander, who's the player that he really wanted to have join him, but also who is a player I covered for years, covering the NFL in Washington, is that it also sheds light on the dynamics of a locker room that you might not realize, because it's just something that's not talked about a lot.

[00:03:02] Len: What a great day.

[00:03:16] Lindsay: Great crowd.

[00:03:18] Lindsay: Like fans lined up at seven.

[00:03:23] Lindsay: Do the fans know who you are? No. Are you sure?

[00:03:31] Like, who's this guy? Yeah. All right. I gotta go. All right. Yeah. Alright, let's go. Come on, we're up. We're up. We're up. We're up. We're up. We're up.

[00:03:48] That idea is one that Sean McDermott brought with him when he took over as the head coach. Having someone always accessible to players builds trust, but also becomes a part of their daily routine on the practice field. So this has been a conversation that I think for me has been a couple of years in the making, and so I'm so grateful to have you guys here.

[00:04:14] Lorenzo: Right?

[00:04:18] Lorenzo: Yeah. I mean, I got to you in Washington in 2006 when I got there. When did you get there? Yep. Yeah,

[00:04:25] Lorenzo: Yep. So five. Yep. I played 15, I've been out six, so 20, 21 years. Yeah. Yep. Yeah,

[00:04:44] Lorenzo: Wow. I would say it is, it's more prevalent today. I think it's more visual, but I think it's always been at the core of guys in that locker room in some way. I think just for many years, just because of the old school way, it was more transactional, just thinking about your grandfather and how he grew up.

[00:05:24] guys stepping out, guys creating that huddle at the 50-yard line that you see. And I think over time, now we have full-time chaplains that are part of the fabric of the team. And so that's really where I've seen the biggest shift, to where now it's not like this outside thing that we know is a part of you, and we know it's important, but hey, we're gonna help actually bring someone in to help you cultivate that.

[00:06:05] And so when you show up to work, I'm more present. I'm more in tune, and guess what? I'm bringing those same principles to impact my teammates. Right. And so I may have a guy that's struggling, I can help that guy get on board, figure it out, or support him by building a relationship, letting him see Christ through me, and then he may elevate as well.

[00:06:32] Len: You know, one thing I would add to that, which is a great answer, is what I think people don't know is that there are a lot of people, a lot of players in the league that love the Lord.

[00:07:01] But when we see each other in the fifties, some of these guys know each other. I love to watch before and after games. Everybody knows each other, it seems like. Right? But then, when more and more people gather and take a knee, you know, and thank God publicly, you see how the fabric of the league, I think, has changed because people are freer, or more bold to say, here's how I'm living my life.

[00:07:30] Lindsay: Yeah, for sure. So, Len. Walk me through how you would describe what the actual job of a full-time chaplain is. Yeah, and also Sean McDermott, head coach of the Bills. He told me when he took this coaching job, when he had the opportunity, he saidwouldn't't I want to hire a full-time Len?

[00:07:56] Len: Yeah. Right, right. You know, my job, I think, is always to look at it three ways. Number one is to love everybody and to serve everybody, you know, when Jesus says love one another, as I've loved you, I wanna make sure that, whether they walk into the chapel or Bible study or have any kind of interaction with me, I want them to know that they're loved and I'm here to serve 'em.

[00:08:34] And then for guys like Lorenzo who are serious about their faith and growing is to try to make disciples and to come alongside. And I've learned as much from Lorenzo as he learned from me. I can guarantee you that. So I look at it that way, like if I, as I go into my job, you know, am I loving people?

[00:09:09] My wife and I are partners doing the ministry, so we do couples group together, and we bring

[00:09:16] Len: For sure. We, you know, Lorenzo and Manique hosted for many years when we were there. You know, open up their home. So, but trying to,

[00:09:28] 'That like?

[00:09:53] It's easy for me, right? It's easy. I mean, I got a whole bunch of guys that I get to see every day and build these organic relationships through doing something that's hard. Right. That's typically, you know, how football teams are created. You're doing things hard together. We bind around it, but our wives, yeah, a lot of times are, you gotta stay back with the kids, and then when you do come out, you kind of just drop in, in the middle of the year, and then so what does that look like?

[00:10:34] So you can start cultivating community together as husbands, as spouses, and then as wives get to be able to see that and get to see that. So it was really cool for us to open it up and, you know, host and provide that space. And you really saw couples grow. You get to see a look ahead, okay, this is how we do things, pay things forward, and just people just, really giving their, their, testimony.

[00:11:09] Len: And, I would say too, you know, what Zoe provided Zoe and Man Janique provided was just a really safe place that we would.

[00:11:34] Oh, for sure. For them to come into their home in that house and go, Oh, this is what a Christian House looks like. Like the kids are running around, and Zoe's helping with dinner and getting stuff ready. And a lot of times, I don't think a fair amount of players have seen that.

[00:11:50] Right? I didn't see it growing up, and I had to see Antron Reell and Len Fetcher, James Thrash, those men Reo Wynn modeled that Ye,s. Right. What does that look like? 'Cause you don't, right. And we actually would invite single guys, too. Yeah. And have them come over. Right. You know, invite, come on.

[00:12:11] Len: Probably more powerful than anything we said. Right, right. Just to walk into that environment,

[00:12:16] Len: having that example. So day to day, just to kind of, you know, wwe doaa chapel, like most teams do a chapel, either the night before the game.

[00:12:34] Lindsay: Sean said you can't find a seat in the house.

[00:12:38] Len: Yeah. We're by God's grace. W, got a great place to meet. You know, and Sean has carved it right into the schedule, which has been a real blessing. So it's, it flows right into meeting time. Right. You know, which I think is strategic, very intentional.

[00:13:09] No one's gonna ask 'em any questions. They can just take it in, so that's the big thing we do as far as a service. And then for us, the Monday before the team meeting is Bible study. And as I was telling you earlier, we try to always combine those two things. So Chapel was kind of a presentation.

[00:13:44] So Dawson and Alex Knox hosted last year. I think they're gonna host again this year. So Tuesday night we're doing a whole thing about marriage and what it means to date and what does Bible says about, you know, our relationships with each other. And, we love that we can't get enough of that, you know, and we have food there and, you know, it's just an evening where they can come get something to eat, and then hang out and talk as long as they want to.

[00:14:31] Right,

[00:14:33] Len: Right. You know, like, what my baby, you know, this guy? So, when we came to Buffalo, the Williams, I remember Jill Williams and Kyle said, Hey, this is what we do in Buffalo. We do it all combined. We're one big family, and we're not gonna talk about football. And so they were like, all right,

[00:14:48] Len: We're following your lead.

[00:15:18] And it's all about trust and building relationships so you can earn the right to say, Hey, let's talk about your story, and here's what I'm learning. But that takes time. You gotta earn that right to do that.

[00:15:36] Right? Obviously led by the Holy Spirit. So what do you think about Reid Ferguson, Lee, Levi Wallace, Matt, Barkley, and there's probably a ton of other guys that I'm not, that's not coming to my mind 'cause I'm old. But, Lorenzo Alexander. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So to be able to really be extensions into the locker room, right.

[00:16:20] Oh, ,really? So how does that end? You ask questions and are curious about that perspective, and I'm gonna share my faith. And then you start getting guys thinking a little bit differently, and guys are watching. That's one thing I figured out a long time ago, really, they're Tri Locker, they're watching, a nd they know who Christians are.

[00:16:56] They actually are trying to figure out what that thing is that makes you a little bit different. And I say that because I was that guy looking. There you go. Anell, James STRs REO went, I got saved in Washington, where Sean Taylor passed in 2007. But those men were walking differently even before that tragedy happened, and I was already curious.

[00:17:41] That's cool. Right? And so you start seeing it happening and over organically over the last, you've been here seven,

[00:17:48] Lorenzo: Nine years, right? Yeah. It goes by fast. You see the ministry grow, right? And it's just God working guys in the locker room and just the Holy Spirit kind of moving through that space.

[00:18:16] 'cause I wanna share my faith not overly or crazy. Yeah. But outta love. But you have, I have heard that in some ways, too. And that just tells me that the spirit is moving and putting those people in a certain way because it's hard to be in a space when people are loving on one another like that.

[00:18:41] Lindsay: Yeah.

[00:18:46] Lindsay: for context. When you're saying that, you're, that guys are talking, and then you're in a moment where you wanna question that, like you're saying..

[00:18:53] Lindsay: For context, for people that aren't aware, like what type of chatter would that be in a locker room? How would you describe it

[00:19:01] Lindsay: Just what you're hearing that you feel like you need to, Oh,

[00:19:11] 37 or Aaron Rodgers 42, 2, right, right, right. Men. And so just think about all the things that we would consider seeing are things that men get themselves into. And I call it because we have boyish where we call ourselves men, but we have. Boy tendencies, right? Because the Bible tells you to lay down those things as you mature and grow up and understand what the truth is.

[00:19:48] Yep. It's there's a ton of conversations that you're gonna have, you know, with your, that you have with your kids at home, that you have with your own friends, that people have that those are the conversations I'm having with guys in the locker room. Right. And I wanna bring a kingdom's perspective to whatever worldly idea that they have, right?

[00:20:24] I mean, the world has us so messed up, you know, they think you're shrinking. When you surrender. You actually, God expands your impact and influence when you submit, obey, and really abide by thee word. And so,

[00:20:38] Lorenzo: Yeah,

[00:20:41] The power of the peer-to-peer ministry, right? I mean, I, believe the, like I said, the chaplains facilitate, but when you have guys like this or, the other guys that you mentioned as well as Case Keenum and Josh McCowen, or guys like Matt Forte or Brendan Marshall, her cousins, I mean, there's so, de Mario Davis, there's so many around the league.

[00:21:20] And all the trappings that come with it. When you can begin to speak truth in that, to be a listener, a good listener, and then go, Hey, have you ever thought about it this way?

[00:21:29] Len: I remember coming home some late night Sunday night, you know, middle of nowhere, dark. And I look over in the plane to Zoe and, you know, everybody's asleep or, you know, got ice bags on all this stuff.

[00:22:00] And Guy, you know, guys would see that. Yeah. The guys will see that. Yeah. You know, and that witness is more powerful. At least that's where it should always start. Oh, for sure. For sure.

[00:22:22] It's almoso me like he's created just this, you're a safe space that's always present. Like, I think the way that you explain the role to me is really interesting because you're also out there coaching, right?

[00:22:35] Stay in my lane.

[00:22:41] Lindsay: But I think I, because when you were talking about this, you're out there coaching, you're working with the DBs, right?

[00:23:05] Len: No doubt, but that was Sean's from the very beginning. Sean intuitively knew that when he first hired me, he said, I want, I don't want you just, you know, coming in this, I want you to be fully integrated into the team between meeting rooms, practice. Travel office, the whole thing. And that just set me up for success.

[00:23:26] Lindsay: And your journey to this role. Can you share? Yeah. What was that? Yeah.

[00:23:53] If you will. And through the work of my brother, who led me to Christ when I was 14 years old, who continued to mentor me and check on me, you know, he started to write me notes and, say, Hey, you know, how are you living? You know, I know you're having great success and you're climbing the ladder, but you know, what's your relationship with God like?

[00:24:36] He was just my, uy. And God got hold of us when my wife and I went and visited this church in Chicago. And we just felt God saying, "You gotta take this job. This is your next step. And what it was, Lindsay, it was the first step of faith that cost me something. I grew up in a Christian home, went to Christian school, you know, I kind of lived a safe kind of Christian life.

[00:25:21] You know? And I wish I could say it was fantastic from day one, but it was really hard,

[00:25:28] Len: It was really hard. It was like, what are we doing? We had two young kids, you know, and yet God gave me the opportunity a few years later to coach at Wheaton College part-time, which allowed me to kinda stay in football.

[00:25:58] But the call on my life to join the staff of that church and do sports ministry was just, I couldn't deny it.

[00:26:10] Len: It was such a call. It was a call that I just can't explain unless you know what the work of the Holy Spirit does.

[00:26:40] Lorenzo: Right.

[00:27:02] Lorenzo: Oh, okay.

[00:27:21] There was, so the idea of me. Doing that full-time was not realistic. So I didn't, you know, it wasn't something I thought I could do. Right. You know, until a couple of hours later, when Leslie, I knew Leslie Frazier, when he joined the staff of Sean McDermott, Leslie called me up and said, Hey, Sean McDermott wants to create a position for a full-time chaplain.

[00:28:12] Football, it's been, you know, incredible. What a gift. Delight yourself in the Lord. No, that's great. You know, he's gonna take care of you. Yeah, for sure. It didn't happen as quickly at times. I'm like, what am I doing? So long-winded story, to answer your question.

[00:28:25] Len: That's how we landed in Buffalo.

[00:28:31] Len: Yeah. Yeah. So when I got the job, Troy Murphy, who was the chaplain for the Packers for several years, and he's a pastor up in Green Bay, we were on the same staff at Willow Creek together. And so he was the only guy I knew in the league who had done any kind of chaplain work.

[00:29:06] From everybody else in these guys' worlds. 'cause everybody from their agent to their family, to their position coach wants something true.

[00:29:14] Len: Right. And like, be that, be different. And that will allow you to build trust, you know? So that was great advice. You know, I don't know if I've gotten any better advice in my 12 years now in the league than that, but I have to remind myself of that every day, too.

[00:29:37] Lorenzo: Right

[00:29:47] But that was great advice I got from the get-go. And I remember talking to Brett Fuller as well. I think Troy. Gave me Brett's number, a nd I called himand Brett was so gracious with his time and just encouraged me, just like, You can do it. You know, get in there and here are some things I do, but just be yourself and go love on the guys, serve 'em, share the gospel with 'em, and you'll do great.

[00:30:07] Len: So those are a couple of guys who, early on, helped me get off on the right track.

[00:30:18] Lorenzo: Yeah. You wanna answer that question? You want me to answer that question? I, yeah.

[00:30:37] And so we had a ton of guys that would kind of, I'm not doing the Jesus thing. All right, well, you can, youcan I take you to lunch and do the Z thing and just kind of hang out and get to know me? You know? Okay, cool. Right. They want that aspect, that type of relationship. And then I think most people just want to see if it's authentic?

[00:31:16] It tends to come out, but I'm more getting to trying to get to know them, where they're at in life, wherethey'rey doing, how did you grow up? Yeah. You know, are you married? Weoourkids? What's your father's son? One of the things I really liked was what Sean did, which I started just trying to find the common ground, right?

[00:31:48] I didn't want anything from them. I'm just here to serve you and help you become the best version of yourself through Christ, even though you don't know that's what you want. And I'm still trying to do that, give them wisdom in that way, and, you know, just plant the seed. That's my job is to plant the seed.

[00:32:14] Len: I mean, I think the word you used, which I would double down on, is being authentic.

[00:32:18] Len: Right. The guy who's seeking, or interested, I would call him an explorer, he is trying to figure out faith and what it means, and how might he fit in, and what's the bible say, that kind of thing.

[00:32:33] Lorenzo: Right

[00:32:46] How did you know what you love to do? What are your passions outside of football? And to actually do that and be a really good listener.

[00:32:54] Len: Right. And to be as opposed to we all of us have a tendency wanna say stuff, you know, and we're thinking about stuff while someone's talking. But to really be a good listener, and then to be a student and to go, I notice this about you.

[00:33:28] but if something is going on, they get hurt. Right? Right. And all of a sudden, you know, they're at, they're in the training room, and you go, Hey, hoare w are you feeling? You know what's going on? And now you have a little background to begin with, all of a sudden they let their guard down and go, man, I'm really struggling.

[00:34:03] Lindsay: Right.

[00:34:05] I'm gonna invite

[00:34:07] Lindsay: and it's sort of like whether they accept or not, it's. It's also, it's helping those things. It's camaraderie, it's chemistry for sure. You've been on several teams. Made an impact on several teams.

[00:34:37] Lorenzo: So, yeah. I, but not from success, so I wouldn't say it's going to lead to winning more.

[00:35:04] So I don't want it, I don't want it to get devalued by saying that. It is only valuable if we win. Right? Because I think that's often the oftentimes, especially in professional sports or in life, well, did you win? Well, that's, another, that's something totally different. 'cause I'm thinking about impacting life and changing people's lives.

[00:35:40] And oftentimes you cannot, the way I evaluate if I did a good job as a coach, I, I really can't do that until they're like 18, 20, right? Going to high school. You know, what do they perceive life differently than other high schools? I can't go off. Did, NFL run team coached by Lorenzo Alexander, did we go 18 to oh and win the championship?

[00:36:19] He gets to experience that. Now his kids get to see what his mom and dad look like. He's breaking a curse that maybe he didn't get to experience. Those are like the real wins. That's what I'm looking for.

[00:36:31] Lorenzo: Generational changes that the winning, yes, I wanna win a Super Bowl. Right? I wanted to win a Super Bowl.

[00:36:44] Lindsay: No doubt.

[00:37:00] That's how I know, okay, we're doing our right thing regardless if we win a Super Bowl or win a championship.

[00:37:10] Lorenzo: players? Well, one of the things I always go back to Asan Taylor, is seeing him; he was actually going through that transition when he was murdered.

[00:37:37] And right. And so when you have that happen, it's just a lot of people on this team, I mean, the Raiders, we didn't win that much, but I mean, we had Derrick Carr, we had Marcel, we had a lot of great dudes on that team. Like I mentioned,,d the commanders or the Redskins at the time. A ton of great dudes.

[00:38:15] They impacted my life. And now I get to pay that forward to other guys who may hahad ve had that same childhood experience I did. And so that's what it's about. Yeah. And so you're just changing, just the trajectories of families and what it looks like, in their household as far as being able to grow up with mom and dad and see them loving on the Lord and what that's gonna mean for their kids.

[00:38:39] Lindsay: I have always loved just understanding the stories behind, you know, different players, understanding how players and coaches grow through the sport and through their experience. I don't know that I've thought about it that way. You have this massive locker room of all these different people that are in there together that have very different experiences.

[00:39:04] Len: Just to see you get emotional about that shows the depth of the connection you've had with guys. Correct? Yeah. And these, and as you know, what they do physically. Over a long period of time together.

[00:39:39] Right. Right. IItgives you purpose. That's why it makes you emotional. Right. God is doing all the work, but he invites us into this amazing melting pot of football.

[00:39:51] Len: Wives and girlfriends included in the community, right? Like we're, this team and community together for these six, seven months together.

[00:40:18] Right. This is how we're going to,

[00:40:37] Where's the discipline? The accountability, the love, the joy, the peace. Where's that at? Over here? You know? So you burn at both ends,, and it, or it doesn't align. And that tears people apart. So getting them to bring synergy to their life, right? Bthe y the surrendering of Christ, and then they start seeing that, and it just aligns in their impact, beyond what goes oon in he locker room, on the field,iit'sss just, itjustifieded

[00:41:03] Len: and it speak, it speaks to so many of the guys coming in who they just have not seen a good example. Right? Yeah. How it means what it means to walk with the Lord. Yeah. What it means to read scripture, right. What it means to be a husband.

[00:41:43] Correct. Right. Yeah. They, that's a huge paradigm shift.

[00:41:49] Len: For a lot of guys, right. To go, whoa. Like, I think I mentioned Tony Dungy earlier, right? Like, you can have a Christian coach who's willing to be who he is unapologetically, right? And, for a lot of times in his career, he didn't win, but he's always stayed the same, right?

[00:42:19] Lindsay: You mentioned that Sean Taylor's death was something that really flipped a switch for you for sure, for people tthat are listening or watching and aren't familiar with the story.

[00:42:50] I was in Washington covering that story, and I just remember having never seen anything like that up close and dealing with that. I was wondering if you could share your experience because there was a while that they thought he was gonna pull through.

[00:43:13] Right. You're not thinking about death. You know, you're kind of in this moment, and as I reflect on where I was at that time, as far as who I was, you know, I was in the NFL. Playing, you know, making money. And I was unhappy. And I had already started seeing those guys' names that I mentioned earlier, James Thre, Ronaldo, and the Christian men on our team.

[00:43:52] And, but he was going through this transition with Pastor Brett and, just the people in his life of maturing, figuring out who he was in Christ, what that meant.

[00:44:02] Lorenzo: He had become a father, right? And he was thinking about getting married and just all these things that were really happening, and it was just abrupt..

[00:44:34] It took me over, so you know, I hate that it took that, but I know his life and what he did and how he lived and what he was doing impacted so many people in a positive way out of that, out of his death. And so, it was definitely a hard time, but I think the guys around on that team, we, we bonded around that came closer.

[00:45:10] But how can I glorify God in everything that I do, whether it's at work in the football field, at home with my wife, or I didn't even have a wife then, which, crazy enough, I had just met my wife. Future wife in April. And so gave my life to the Lord. And we, you know, got baptized together, right?

[00:45:44] And like, man, this dude was really doing something., need to make a change too. So he inspired me to do that. And. The way he lived his life really impacted my family. So, you know, I have the opportunity to bring Zoe to the training Camp at Miles. I have Mason, and I have my older daughter, Vanessa. And so they get to see their mom and dad love on one another, love the Lord, and be exposed to what that looks like.

[00:46:18] Lindsay: How? How did Faith help that team heal?

[00:46:28] Like Lynn, is now as far as identifying guys to kind of help, infiltrate the locker room in a way, as far as loving on guys. And so, you know, the London Fletchers of the world, the James Ths, the Ronaldo Wind, you know, guys were seeking them, for guidance through that time. And, I think a lot of guys' lives have now changed.

[00:47:11] Lindsay: The bills had the situation 16 years later, after Sean happened. Yeah, DeMar Hamlin. Yeah. Having a cardiac event on the field. What was that like for you when you? Yeah. When that was unfolding?

[00:47:49] You know, because, you could see, you know, the look on the doctor's faces. You could see the look on the trainer's faces that this was something different.

[00:48:16] And, but you're close enough to hear, you know, what the doctors are saying and to visually see, you know, Denny Ellington doing compressions on 'em. And, all of a sudden, it went to, this is really real. Like we were in the middle of a first quarter of a big game, playoff implications where we're gonna be seated on Monday night, and all of a sudden,, that place is quiet.

[00:49:00] Right? I had never had that thought.

[00:49:02] Len: What Ido mean? He could be hurt really bad, you know, but all of a sudden, and the emotions, if you know, have seen any of that footage, the emotions are all over the place with our guys, you know, guys are crying, guys are able to look. You know, and by this time, bythee five, six-minute mark, the Bengals team has come over, you know, and there's an ambulance coming on and, you know, the image of Denny doing those compressions for nine minutes, you know, just felt like, like I said earlier, it felt like an hour.

[00:50:01] And they shocked him. And, I believe they got a heartbeat on the first shock. Maybe it took two. But we heard he has a pulse, you know? And before you know it, man, he was in that ambulance, and you know, you're like, what? Do you know what happened? What just happened? You know, all of our minds are off of football, you know?

[00:50:42] That's the only thing I could say. I don't think I said anything else other than, Lord, bring him back, Lord. Bring him back, Lord. Bring him back begging you, Lord. Bring him back. You know? And, you know, that I, you know, there was a moment, there were moments there. We didn't know what was going on.

[00:51:00] Lindsay: I me, his heart had stopped on that field.

[00:51:22] There is no way. They weren't warming up. You know, they were crying. Right. You know, and I remember I went over close enough whereZach Taylor came over to Sean and the officials were there, and Sean said, he says, I'm gonna the hospital. He goes, if you guys play this game, whatever the league decides, so be it.

[00:51:55] Lorenzo: Right.

[00:52:14] Is he still breathing?

[00:52:16] Len: They've got somebody talking to the ambulance. So it was just, you know, just praying for him. And the locker room was just up for grabs, guys, crying guys just beside themselves. Yeah. You know, and I remember Josh, if I, if I got this right, I remember for Allen, Josh Allen at some point coming over into that circle and saying, hihend Sean talked and Josh said something like, if one guy doesn't wanna play, we're not playing.

[00:53:08] praying for him, you know, and getting on that plane coming back on early Monday morning. You know, we had a meeting that Monday morning, right aw nd Sean brought the whole team together and said, We're gonna pray. We just had a prayer meeting as a whole team, you know, and had prayer meetings every morning that week, or you know, that whole week.

[00:53:48] Reports are like, okay, it looks like he's gonna progress brain damage. Looks like he's gonna be okay. But it's still early. He's still there. Some of our trainers stayed in Cincinnati. But it was all about how do we care for each other? How do we provide whatever anybody needs to get through this,,s and just to talk it out.

[00:54:14] Lindsay: Right.

[00:54:29] He said that at the team meeting this morning, the most important thing we do as people. We're in the people business. Right. That's what he said this morning. You know, he reemphasized that all the time. And that we lived it out. You know, by God's grace, you know, I think by Friday or Saturday we had a, you know, DeMar was on the screen in the theme room.

[00:55:10] Yeah. You're like, what? You know?

[00:55:13] Len: And so, it was a wake-up call for a lot of guys, you know. I remember I did chapel that, that next week, and I just said, Don't miss the miracle. You know, don't miss what we just saw. You know, we saw a man, you know, down for nine minutes, and we saw him brought back to life, and that's no accident.

[00:55:54] Lorenzo: Right.

[00:56:12] Right. They forget. They don't, you know, and that's what I try to say. Let's not forget this moment that we were on that field. We witnessed it. And then God, by his grace, brought him back to us. And, he's a living testimony. You know? I mean, he's moved on as far as he's a player. People think of him, I think more and more as a player, but we're always gonna think of DeMar Hamlin for that night.

[00:56:33] Lindsay: What did that mean to you? Like, what did you make of that? Just talking about the miracle part of it, just from your experience and your

[00:56:43] Lindsay: I mean, you know, learnings.

[00:56:59] Yeah. Same age, right? Same position, you know. Yeah. But when you see that up close, if you have any kind of awareness, awareness is like, okay, there's something bigger than me. There's something bigger going on here. Right. And it was amazing to see the country rally and pray with. On ESPN. Yeah.

[00:57:25] Len: Dan prayed, you know?

[00:57:27] Lindsay: We were talking before Dan Orlovsky. Yeah, right. Praying out loud. Yeah. And he recently shared that, when you said earlier about sometimes it's uncomfortable, I thought right away of what Dan said, 'cause he said it, it wasn't comfortable, but he felt like he had to do it. Right. Right. You know, and I think it's, this is a topic that is uncomfortable for a lot of people.

[00:58:09] Like they're just walking around the facility, just, you know, not interested in doing anything related to football

[00:58:17] Len: That week, you know, other guys are in the weight room just getting after the routine and doing their thing. But what it said to me, you know, was God's grace is real. Witness it, you know, watching our players rally around him, you know, and in the years that it, you know, it took him, it's taken him a while to come back from that.

[00:58:41] Len: You know, mentally, physically, I can only imagine what he would have to try to get his body to go through knowing that you would never think that would happen again, but right, right, right. Think of the mental hurdle he's had to overcome to get out and play the kind of football that he has to play in the league.

[00:59:30] And it', a pleasure to walk alongside him. But I'll never forget that I'll never forget DeMar Hamlin, I'll never forget those moments.

[00:59:37] Len: You know, and, so, to God be the glory that, you know, for whatever reason he spared his life that night, you know? And I believe God's. Do tremendous things through DeMar and all of us that witnessed that, you know, that paid attention.

[00:59:56] Lindsay: Is there anything else you guys wanna add about something you would like people to know? You've shared so much that's so valuable and have been so open. I really appreciate it.

[01:00:21] They're passionate about football. We're passionate about football and competing. Yet we get an opportunity to have a real purpose behind it. I mean, wouldn't it be empty if all the years you played football, you know, all it came down to was just. Wins and losses. Right. And how much money did you make, or wouldn't it be just like, right?

[01:01:02] And what you said earlier, right? He does all the work.

[01:01:05] Len: He does the work. We just have to be faithful. Right. We have to show up, be faithful. Right. We don't have to be perfect. We have to be willing to have conversations and love people and go through hard stuff with people and not have to feel like the outcome is ours to control.

[01:01:24] Lindsay: Do you think it's just as simple as finding what feels good and what your purpose might be? Do you know what I mean? When you're talking about your purpose? Yeah. Sometimes it's just like, what is the thing that makes you happy?

[01:01:40] 'cause we remain in the image of God. So I, you know, am being creative. As a football player, I get to be creative with my body and do certain things, make these spectacular catches, rush to passor do these things that people go, Ooh, God created the universe. Right? Community, God is in constant community, right?

[01:02:19] Right. And so whether it's youth camps, going to hospitals, talking to a young guy, right?, and I don't expect it. Can't gimme nothing back. I'm not even looking for anything back. Right? It gives you that opportunity. If you can find that in something you enjoy doing, I think that's when you're ultimately happy.

[01:02:53] Yeah.

[01:03:08] Well, right? We all have different gifts, spiritual gifts, and physical gifts. Right? What are those things that he's gifted me with? And that's why it's important to have people like a mentor, like a land that can help you kind of figure those things out. And then that's the area you want to be in. So I'm no longer a player.

[01:03:41] You have other guys who have transitioned it to the finance world or to real estate. Yeah. But they're doing really well because they understand that their identity is not in the game, right? They're taking their attributes, their God giving attributes, their identity in Christ, and just applying it to the next thing.

[01:04:17] You're gonna find your purpose, you know, with God at the foundation of those things.

[01:04:37] Nature.

[01:04:52] What does God think of me? Right? Well, let's look at who God is, and then, being in nature, general revelation is, you see the detail of God, right? You see the beauty of God, right? Have you seen a sunset? Right? Have you seen the leaves change in the fall? Right? So, maybe we mentioned this earlier, but one of the things I do every day when I get to the facility is I walk around the field for about a lf an hour, our practice field, and it's the sun usually is coming up by the time I get there.

[01:05:39] If you just observe it enough, you can learn about how how he's revealing himself to you. And then into scripture where he goes into real detail about here's who I am and here's, here's the characteristics of, and here's my son who's the exact representation of the father, and let's look at how he treated people.

[01:06:18] And to see their eyes light up and their heart begin to grow, to go, God really does love me and he has a purpose for me, and he has a plan that I, and it, can affect, I marry and how I raise my kids and how I do my job. Like God loves me that much, that he's inviting me into his plan. Come on, what do you want?

[01:06:47] Lindsay: I think it did.

[01:07:02] But he said that he realized that he needed someone there for him. So it was just as much a coach realizing that he wants to be spiritually, you know, straight, and just have someone that he can lean on too. But it really is fascinating to watch, and I saw it with my own eyes, just how Len has become a fabric of that organization, not just guys that we saw coming up, asking to set time with him to talk about faith, but also very much out there on the field.

[01:07:44] It was holy. I had to stay on topic. Thank you so much for listening to to or watching this episode. If you're interested, by the way, in hearing more about the day-to-day life in the NFL, from draft day to big moments like the Super Bowl, check out Alex Okafor's Things No One Tells You Podcast episode. I loved Alex's story.

[01:08:22] Please don't forget, follow and subscribe to things no one tells you. And of course, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, don't forget to leave a five-star review because that's really what helps people get more. Listeners, we would love to grow this community. We are so grateful that you're a part of it.