Erin Pehlivan, writer and founding editor of Return Trip, joins Emily and Corinne to talk about the moments of change that travel inspires, what goes into creating a publication with a new perspective on a popular subject, and how to make the most out of being part of the publishing community.

Uh, the name is interesting too, because I think

in order to really have traveled, I think we have to

come full circle and come back to ourselves, come back to our

home, and really, like reflect on what we've been through. I

know not everyone can have that experience, like, if you're

immigrating or a refugee from a country that's at war. You might

not, not ever go back home, but that piece of home is kind of

always still with you. You foreign

Welcome to the hybrid club Scout podcast with

me. Emily einerlander

and me. Corinne kalafke, hello. Hello, Corinne.

Hello, Emily,

the frontier between traditional and indie

publishing. And today, we're talking with Erin pellavin about

her new zine, return trip, which just debuted on Thursday, right.

Yep. All right, so Erin pellavin is the founding editor of return

trip, a zine that explores how travel makes us feel. She is a

freelance writer and editor who's been published in

Maisonneuve, the Globe and Mail en route magazine and more.

She's also an associate editor at the vault, a literary zine

focusing the work on the work of women writers. Her home base is

Toronto, but she's also lived in Copenhagen, Ho Chi Minh City and

Montreal, and we met in Copenhagen, so it's nice to talk

again. So hi, thank you for being here. Aaron, thank you for

having me. I'm so excited. Yeah, how was your launch? It was

great. Yeah, we had a really good turnout. Yeah, it was

awesome, yeah, and it was, it was at a bookstore, a record

store? Yeah, it's a

record store, yeah, in Toronto on Queen Street.

All right, so I believe that Curran has an

icebreaker question. Oh, I sure

do. All right, hold on. One second here. Get

ready. Okay, so between rush, Justin Bieber and Nickelback, if

you had to listen to any one of these artists for the rest of

your life, which would it be, and why

I'm gonna go with Rush, because the least controversial,

well in our brush, like Canadian royalty

anyway, right? Yes.

I mean, there's a lot of Canadian Lord loyalty,

there's there's Celine, there's Shania. You know, there's a lot.

There's Drake. Like, I listen to Drake all the time. So that

would have been my answer.

But, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, we tried

to pick the worst ones, yeah. Well, what I think are the worst

anyway, but yeah, all right, so rush, okay, I am, I'm sorry. I

am, I'm not sorry, I'm opinion. Why am I saying that?

Well, area has pretty good taste. I think

because we do. You remember when we DJ that night at the student

house?

Yes, in Copenhagen, yeah, it was great.

I actually listened to art brood all week

in preparation for this. Wow. Listen to it in years. And I was

like, I remember that was fun. We'll link it in the show notes.

All right, so we've had some varying answers to this

question. As you know, we interviewed Joe Biel, and then

we've interviewed Erin Klassen, but she comes on later, and then

Shelley Pearson, who we also interviewed, has her own opinion

about what constitutes constitutes a zine. So what

would your definition of a zine be?

I feel like a zine just has a very independent kind of

spirit to it, and it's independently published. My

knowledge of zines is kind of like, you know, Aaron comet bus

and like all those really old school zines that came out of

Portland, and they're, you know, black and white, photocopied,

stapled, like I that's a traditional zine to me. But in

the past few years, I've been noticing that there are things

that are called zines that are like perfect bound and include

color and like a little bit of investment. So it's interesting

to see how zines have evolved. But I think at the heart of it

all, zines are independently published,

so that's like the main uniting factor for

them, I think so. I mean, in my opinion, I'm not

super I'm not, like, an expert on zines or anything like that,

but that's just kind of what I've noticed, and, like, have

done one. So I feel like that the more expert than us. Yeah,

that's true, yeah. But I think right now, we're struggling on

how to define return trip, like. Is it a magazine? Is it a zine?

It has the heart of independent publishing and this kind of

different content that's very different from magazine, and we

don't have advertisements or advertorials or anything like

that, or like any commercial content. So we're still

deciding, do we call it a zine? Do we call it a magazine?

Because when you hold it in your hands, it does have a magazine,

almost like book vibe to it, with lots of colors and photos,

so, right? Yeah, we're still, we're still figuring out who we

are,

yeah, it's never, never just a finished

product in the whole thing, right? Yeah, would you consider

yourself like a perfectionist when it comes to the editing

process? Like you have a hard time letting it go to print.

Yeah. I mean, the zine took a year and two months to

complete so, and I think a lot of that was me, well, not a lot

of it, but I would go back and look at the content and be like,

Oh, this reads really weird. Like, how did I not pick this up

before? And then I would just kind of edit again, and then get

my friend to copy edit. So, yeah. I mean, it's part of the

process, and I definitely consider myself a perfectionist,

but at some point you just kind of have to trust that it will be

okay in the end.

All right, so did you read a lot of travel

writing before you decided to create return trip? And what did

and didn't you like about any of the stuff you may have read?

I don't really read travel writing. I find unless

it's a place I've been or a place I really want to go. I

don't tend to want to read about destinations. I'm more

interested in how people feel when they're on the road. And to

me, that doesn't matter what the destination is or the location

like, I just kind of want a good story about a moment of change,

I think so that's really important to me. Yeah. I mean, I

kind of read, like, philosophical travel books, I

guess, like, let me look at my shelf here, I think Paul

Theroux. I think his name is, he did the art of travel. I read

flights by Olga to karchick, who's a Polish writer who won

the Man Booker last year. I believe. Oh, right, yeah. So she

kind of has these really interesting meditations on

flights and airports and travel, and I just like, live for that

content. I think I I just love that feeling of being on the

road and traveling. So I feel like that's a bit different than

the genre of travel writing, or at least what I know of it,

because I'm not an expert on it, but yeah,

like a Travel and Leisure magazine sort of

person.

Yeah, and like lots to aspire to there, but yeah,

that's definitely not the inspiration for return trip.

Well, I'm kind of relieved to hear that.

Honestly, I don't like those magazines either. Okay, so next

question, how do you want your travel writing zine to stand out

from all the rest?

So, like I mentioned, it really is focusing on the

feelings we have when we travel. And another piece that's

interesting about return trip is we want to focus on cultural

identity a bit and how people define themselves. Like that's

not travel in a traditional, like, commercial or capitalistic

sense. It's kind of like your family traveled to Canada you're

an immigrant, like travel has affected your life, like whether

you have traveled or not, like someone traveling has affected

where you are today, and especially in Toronto, it's a

really multicultural city, and Canada is a very multicultural

country, and I'm really proud of that. That isn't to say there

are no problems at all. I know that people still face

discrimination and whatnot, but I kind of wanted to look at

those two aspects of travel and really just explore the feelings

behind travel and kind of like the depth of travel and not

really see it as a commercial entity, I

suppose so. To that end, what kind of

submissions were you looking for? How did you collect them

and convey that idea of what you wanted? How did

that work? Yeah, I feel like I know a lot of people who

have traveled extensively or lived abroad or are from another

country or kind of live between two cultures or more, and I

approached my friends. They were pretty much everyone in the zine

is my friend. I approached them because I wanted to know what

they thought about this concept, and I knew that they were

creative and had something, had a story to contribute, or some

artwork, and, yeah, I almost kind of wanted to feel like a

collection of stories on this meditation, I suppose. And the

name is interesting, too. Because I think in order to

really have traveled, I think we have to come full circle and

come back to ourselves, come back to our home, and really

like reflect on what we've been through. I know not everyone can

have that experience, like if you're immigrating or a refugee

from a country that's at war, you might not, not ever go back

home, but that piece of home is kind of always still with you.

And so it's interesting to kind of reflect on that, I think.

So there's a really unique part of your call

for submissions where you say, we acknowledge that travel is a

privilege. That doesn't mean you've had to travel in order to

contribute. What did you have in mind when you wrote that?

Yeah, again, like I had said, like a lot of people in

Toronto come from other places, and so part of my definition of

travel involves, like, kind of having that cultural identity

aspect, and also, yeah, travel is a huge privilege, and so I

think not everyone can travel, but that doesn't mean that their

voices don't deserve to be heard, or that doesn't mean that

they don't have a local experience that they could talk

about. So like, if someone wrote on Chinatown, for example,

that's something that would be interesting to me, kind of

reflecting on what that means to them. Yeah.

So there is a piece, and the most recent one

correct about being in Chinatown was it? Was it? The one about

food?

Is it? Yeah, my friend Genevieve yam Cotman wrote a

really great piece about food and cultural identity. She's

from Hong Kong, but she's kind of like grown up between Hong

Kong and Toronto, and she has ties to both. And so yeah, her

and her experience of that was really interesting to me.

So next question, Have you got a lot of

submissions that fall under the category of writing about where

you live, and do those mostly tend toward expats living

somewhere long term, or people who were born and raised in a

single place,

looking at the zine, I think we don't have a lot of

content about, like, writing where you live, per se, there's

a poem about Korean identity that kind of takes place in

Toronto, that's migrant by Misha Yang and so that's not really an

expat story, per se. It's, it's more like a piece on on where

she kind of fits in with her, herself. Okay, Toronto, yeah. So

that's kind of what, what our first issue has. But you know,

I'm definitely interested in hearing about expat life and

kind of living in a culture that is different from your own and

like because for me, like having lived in Copenhagen and Vietnam,

I feel like a crazy amount of change happens when you're out

of your comfort zone and when you're living somewhere and

Having to start a routine in a totally different place, I feel

like some interesting stories or anecdotes might come out of

that. And, yeah, that's like a really big reason why I wanted

to kind of start return trip as well, because I'm just drawn to

those stories.

Okay, okay,

I really liked your piece that you wrote about

the night you had, was it in Luxembourg? Yeah, where you

just, like, didn't actually remember anything from, yeah,

it's like, that's people don't really write about that kind of

stuff, but it happens all the

time. Yeah, and, like, I think I had written that piece

a few years ago, and I was like, Who the fuck is gonna like,

accept this submission, it's so weird, and I it seemed like such

a misfit, but I wanted to address it somehow, like,

basically I had gone to Luxembourg. I was only there for

like, 24 hours, but my my train from Paris was very delayed, so

I only spent a night in Luxembourg. And I guess I kind

of write about what I had anticipated seeing, and then

what versus what I actually saw there, and what my actual

experience was, it was very different from what I expected.

But, you know, that's what it was, and that's how I will

always remember Luxembourg in my mind.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people have travel

experiences like that, where the most memorable things that stick

out in your head are the things that probably aren't going to be

accepted to a magazine. I just remember in Thailand being at a

train station until three in the morning, and the guy I was

traveling with wouldn't stop singing the green grass song.

Like the green grass grows all around, all around. And I was

just like, stop. It was like one of the most memorable nights of

my life because the green grass song. But there you go.

Yeah. So I think there's people talk about how, if you're a

Western person in a. Other country, you're an expat, but if

you're a non western person who moves to a Western country,

you're an immigrant or refugee. So I'm interested in how you're

kind of subverting and decolonizing with the articles

that you're writing. Would you say that return trip is an anti

colonial work, and do you see that as different from

mainstream travel writing?

I don't know that I'd title us or qualify us as an

anti colonial publication. I'm really interested in anti

colonial stories and people's stories of colonization,

including Canadian stories, like from indigenous people, so it's

something I'm very open to. But with our first issue, I don't

know that it really comes across that we're anti colonial or

anything like that. There's a really great publication,

actually out of Toronto called Living hyphen, and it's all

about kind of having a hyphenated identity. So a lot of

the contributors are kind of like, you know, maybe born in

Philippines, but raised in Canada, or, I don't know,

they're mixed race, and they live in Canada, or they have

ties to their to their homes in India or whatever. And I have to

applaud that publication, because they are very anti

colonial. And they even worked with an indigenous group here to

come up with, like, a colon anti colonial statement about, like

the land that that this magazine is published on. So I think,

like, that's, that's amazing, and, yeah, I'm interested in

going into that territory, and I'm interested in seeing kind of

how other publications address that issue, for sure, and it's

definitely not a mainstream thing here, although I kind of,

I'm seeing more and more in Toronto, a lot of events, people

are starting off by acknowledging that the land is

native And and belongs to certain indigenous groups.

So, yeah, yeah, we've started. I've

started seeing that in a lot of events in Portland as well,

which I think is nice.

Yeah. So one theme that you come back to

again and again is that travel creates and fosters

vulnerability. And why do you think that's important?

I think in vulnerability, that's kind of

where those moments of change can really happen, kind of like

again, going back to Copenhagen, like I lived in Copenhagen for

six months, and it changed my life. It changed my worldview.

And I'm very lucky to have been able to go on exchange during

university and have that experience. But, you know, I

look back with kind of rose colored glasses like, Oh, I love

Copenhagen. What a great time. But like in reality, like, there

are a lot of shitty times where I felt lonely and isolated and

frustrated and had really bad experiences with like Sanskrit

bank. I was just gonna say, like, trying to open an

international bank account is, is a form of torture that I I've

never experienced before. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I think it's

important to kind of have those experiences to ground you a bit,

because travel is not always about a vacation. I mean, you

can certainly travel for vacation, and that's great and

live your life, but um, sure it's not always like this great

time. You know

that's that's for sure, when you got those

long winners, but I guess you're used to those,

yeah, probably, yes. It's almost May, and it's still,

it's still like, not even 10 degrees. I don't know what that

is in Fahrenheit, but oh my god, still very cold here.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait no, it's warmer than

that, okay, but still, I remember the big thermometer.

All right. Well, let's talk a little bit about marketing and

sales, because I know that that's very complicated issue.

You said you have no advertisers, so before I ask

about the marketing side of it, how? How'd you fund it? Can I

ask about that?

Yeah, my creative director and i Her name is

Jessica Johnstone. She's extremely talented. I basically

approached her, and I was like, I kind of want to make a travel

magazine. You and I like to travel. We both like magazines,

like, what do you think? And she was down. So we kind of just

like, split the printing costs, which I feel really grateful,

like she was on board with that. Because, I mean, it could cost a

lot of money to print a book, basically. Um, yeah, so that's

how we funded it was just like out of our savings.

How? How high was your print run?

We printed 250 copies. So it's quite a small run,

special limited edition. Yeah, there you

go. Well, we're excited. We're gonna Erin is nice enough to

send us a copy, and we're going to give it away. So keep an eye

out for that, everybody. It's really exciting. So for a travel

zine, it seems like Instagram would be a really good platform

for for getting the word out. And what other plans do you have

for growing the audience and for putting it out into the world

for people to see? I have

very limited experience in marketing and PR, so whatever

we're doing in that realm is a work in progress and a huge

learning curve for me, but I will say we're launching our

online store very soon, so that is one way how you could get

return trip. And we're also reaching out to local boutiques

and bookstores in Toronto. So that's very exciting, because I

think people are once they see the issue in their hands, like

the hopefully they get what it's about, and they'd be interested

in carrying it. And I feel like there's a pretty supportive

community in Toronto right now where there's like, kind of a

lot of indie publications coming out. And so I don't know if

there's like, a demand for that per se, but I definitely notice

it in a lot of stores, and it's definitely part of like certain

brands and certain boutiques to want to have publications

stocked

so there's a space available for you to

enter, rather than to completely create it on your own.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you have any advice for her? Corinne,

oh, for marketing and publicizing it. I

mean, yeah, get on that social media girl, that's part of it. I

would say the Yeah, the Instagram thing is, I mean, it's

absolutely the best way to promote, like, something like

this, I think this subject matter and just like the

experiences you're trying to create for people and the

experiences you're trying to get from people, yeah? Like, I'm

trying to think of what else I mean, I know it's probably not

super, like, cost effective, but giveaways are another really

good way to reach people, which I know, yeah, when you're

printing 250 you know, magazines, it's not, you know,

probably something you want to give away. But that does create

some buzz too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really helps. People love

free shit. So that's, if I've learned anything in my years of

marketing and PR, it's the people of free shit. So yeah, I

don't know. I'll think about it and, like, think of some other

ways, but yeah, that's, I don't know. I mean, these days, like

social media, advertising on social media, which, of course,

also costs money, so yeah, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, D

are you gonna have merch in your online Oh, yeah, that's a great

idea.

Well, right now we are just going to be selling the

magazine, but yeah, I don't know yet. We've thought like we have

Pinterest boards of interesting things we could potentially

sell. But, yeah, it's, it's a work in progress, because

Jessica works full time, and I lime freelance right now, and

and whatnot. So it just takes time to kind of build those

things out. I think.

So when you're working with the vault as well,

like, how much time would you say that you dedicate to each of

your projects,

the vault. I'm not sure exactly what the average would

be per week. Sometimes there's more stories to look over. And

then when we do print collections, there's more of

like a rigorous proofing process and and there's several editors

that work on the vault, so it's very collaborative, which means

it could sometimes take a bit more time, but I really love

working on the vault, and so I'm always like, very happy to just,

like, drop everything and read a story that came in.

I just, I just joined last week. So, oh, my

god, yay. Thank you. And we'll talk about that more in our next

episode as well. So in your spare time, what do you like to

read for pleasure? Other than 12 stories?

I'm like so happy to answer this, but I'm also so

overwhelmed with emotion. Okay, so I'll start by saying normal

people. By Sally Rooney just came out in North America. I

read it in August, and it's like one of my favorite books ever.

Oh, okay. She was in Toronto doing a press tour for normal

people, and I met her, and she signed my books on Wednesday,

Last Wednesday, and I was just so happy. She's one of my

favorite authors. She's from Ireland, incredible, incredible,

like, 28 year old writer who I'm obsessed with. So even though I

read her books a while back, I can't stop thinking about them.

Like. Yeah, just reading them, she has kind of influenced me to

write my own stories in a different way. So that's a big

deal, I think, because not many people can infiltrate my

consciousness like she does. Wow, yeah. Have you never heard

of No, I've, yeah, I've like, read a bunch of

reviews of her way, they've all been like, glowing, like, same

kind of thing that you're saying, basically. So yeah, I

need to check her out.

Yeah. And so through reading Sally Rooney's work,

I've picked up on a lot of Irish literature. She edits a journal

called the stinging fly in Ireland, and I've been

introduced to a lot of really great writers through there.

Also, I have a connection with Ireland, because my boyfriend is

Irish, so where it's, like, always around the house talking

about Ireland, or, like, videos with Irish accents, like from

RTE or whatever. So it's a big part of, like, our culture, I

feel so yeah, Sally Rooney, I would say, is my number one go

to and, I guess, also in the realm of books. But more related

to TV is I've been watching My Brilliant Friend, the Elena

Ferrante. Oh, yeah. How is that? It's amazing. It's perfect,

like, it's basically Elena Ferrante is My Brilliant Friend,

adapted for TV on HBO, and I'm almost done the first season,

and I'm just blown away. It's like, what I was reading in her

books come to life on television in such a real way that I had

imagined in my head. It's like, it's so perfect.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that they were

able to be that faithful to the books and the adaptation. That's

I feel like that's rare too, that they can like, recreate the

magic of the book in the movie or in the TV show.

So I know that she was heavily involved in as well, and

it's just amazing. And I have not, like, stopped thinking

about it. I'm like, taking notes while I watch it, just being

like, oh my god, yeah, I love it. I really recommend it. Very

cool. Yeah. Okay, okay,

awesome, yeah. Corinne, what about you?

What am I what am I reading right now? I am I'm

reading actually. Oh yeah, there's a Toronto connection

here. So I'm reading. Thank you so much. I'm reading a book by

Bruce McCullough from kids in the hall. So it was, like, his

memoir, I guess that came out a few years ago, which I didn't,

didn't even know existed, but like, my boyfriend's a big kids

in the hall fan, and I was talking about him, he's like, Oh

my god, I have his memoir so and I mean, it's like, obviously, an

easy, breezy read, but it's funny. Well, it's funny because

he's funny, obviously, but it's like, I read it all in his

voice, which makes it even funnier. So that's been a nice

like way to kind of ease into spring, I feel like, because

it's been, it's been pretty funny, and it's different from,

like, well, Emily, you know, like, I'm usually, like,

reading, like, literary fiction. So it's kind of a nice like

detour from the heaviness of that sometimes. So that's what

I'm reading. What about you?

Emily, reading Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, yeah.

Did you read it? It's on my shelf. I bought it

recently, and I'm going to start it soon.

JT, my husband was just going on and on about

how much he loved it, and I started reading it, and I'm

like, Okay. And then you know that there's that point in a

book where you're just, you find yourself reading 100 pages at a

time, like it that happened yesterday. I just got into this

space where I was like, I can't stop, like, you know, something

is going to happen. And then you still cry when it happens. It's,

yeah, it's, it's so worth the time. It's a great book. And

then I was really sick this week, so I had a migraine, but

the only thing I could do was, I can look at my phone, but I

could read the Kindle with no backlighting, and really,

really, really large print out here. So I read two romance

books, and then I read hashtag fashion victim by Amin aktar.

And it's really fun. It's, I like murdery books. So it's

basically about, it's a satire on the fashion writing industry

in this woman who wants who is both obsessed with her, like

fashionista, socialite. Co worker, I guess who she wants to

be best friends with, but then she also hates her and wants her

job. So there's a big trail of bodies, and it's fantastic, and

I love it.

That sounds funny. I used to work as a fashion

copywriter, so really, some, some something in there that

would make you

probably love it then Corinne, what

type of literary fiction Do you normally read?

Like? What's a good book you read lately? A good

book that I've read recently? Let's see. I'm in

the middle of this one called Fire Sermon by Jamie Quattro. So

she wrote a. Collection of stories that I really loved that

came out in like, 2013 called, I want to show you more. And so

this is her first novel, and I think it came out a year ago,

two years ago, something like that. But I've been really

devouring that one. I like that one a lot. And she kind of

writes about, like, I don't know, because she is, like, a

Christian herself. So it's sort of about the intersection

between, I don't know, like faith, and then kind of like,

you know, marriage, and I don't, I don't know, like family. It's

just, like, about a lot of I don't know. I don't, I'm, like,

doing absolutely no justice to it, because she's, like, an

incredible writer, but she's just, yeah, I don't know. I love

her, but I've been reading that, so that's one that I've read. I

did read. I told Emily, I think in our last episode, this one by

Alyssa Nutting called made for love, which also came out about

a year ago. Did not care for that, but her first novel called

Tampa, which came out maybe, like, do you remember this book?

Yeah, yes. So that one I love too, which is so creepy and

gross

but so amazing, yeah, Korean, gives it

to me, and she's like, you're gonna love this. I'm like, Why

did you can't see my face right now? Really, was upsetting.

Really so good. Like, yeah, one thing I liked about it

was that it's a perspective you never hear

about. It's

but, like, I really liked that

it was written from the females perspective. It's basically

about a teacher who kind of has, like, a sexual attraction to,

like, grade seven or eight. Yeah, it's really disturbing.

But I was just like, wow, this is so, like, groundbreaking in a

way, like you never hear about women being written in this way,

so you don't see a lot of

female predators, yeah, in books, and

especially female predators that you think are abhorrent. Because

I feel like a lot of the times we see like female characters

who are doing bad things here, you sympathize with them, and

you're kind of on board. But with this one, I was just like,

No,

yeah, very uncomfortable read.

So everyone go read it. That's right, you'll

love it, and then you'll have to take a shower. So yeah, or 12,

right, right.

So, Aaron, do you have any advice for aspiring

publishing people, editors, writers, or just people who are

also drawn to the life that pays no money?

It's hard. I always need advice myself. So I would

say, though, what's been helpful in creating return trip is kind

of having a partner to bounce ideas off of who can do things

that, that I can't do. Like Jess is a really great designer, and

she does a lot of the web stuff as well, and it's just really

important to kind of partner with people who you think would

like a get what, what's, what the project is about, but also

kind of have different skills from you. I also have just found

it really, at least in Toronto, it's a really supportive scene.

So like, let's say, if you're living in your own city and you

see a publication from there, I would say, reach out to the

people behind it and ask them questions. I think because we're

such a small bunch us, like publishing weirdos, we're open

to talking about it with people. And when people are interested

in what we create, it's exciting. So like, if someone

were to come to me and say, hey, I want to start a zine or

whatever. Like, how did you do it? I'd be super happy to talk

to them about it. And I think it's just a really important way

to build

community, really, yeah, well, to wit,

where can people find you

me, like my, my hashtag, I mean, your,

your social media platforms, your website.

Like, where can people get return trip and where can they

follow you in a way that you would welcome,

so you can get return trip at return trip.ca and our

hashtag, or sorry, our Instagram handle is at return Trip.

Mags, yeah. All right, that'll do it. All

right. Well, Aaron, thank you so much. Thank you. Any other

parting words?

No, I'm just really happy to talk to you guys and

keep doing what you're doing. It's fun.

All right. Well, you keep doing what you're

doing. Yeah, and you can follow us on social media, Twitter at

hybrid pub scout. Facebook at hybrid pub scout. Get on our

website, hybridpubscout.com and subscribe to our newsletter,

because there are special things in there. From time to time,

we're going to release the omnibus of JT reads the stone

and fire romance series. You. Just a chapter from each book,

because the series is complete now. You can find us on

SoundCloud, podbean, various RSS feeds all over the internet and

Apple podcast, please go and give us a five star rating on

iTunes, and if you're feeling generosity in your heart, leave

us a review, and I will dramatically read it on air and

and I don't know it'll be worth it, all right? And thanks for

giving a rip about books. You.

You.