Shinsuke Nakamura's theme, The Rising Sun. One of wrestling's most iconic modern themes in WWE. In 2016, I recorded a cover of The Rising Sun on guitar (before I ever got into writing entrance themes) and it connected me with wrestling fans and other composers and musicians in the industry like It Lives, It Breathes and many more. The Rising Sun means a lot to me for what it meant to me as a fan of Shinsuke, as a musician working on covers, and as hearing longtime WWE composers CFO$ crush another entrance theme.

Today's guest is none other than the violinist who recorded The Rising Sun, Earl Maneein of Seven Suns, frequent of

We also play our favorite game on the show, Music City Rumble, where Earl Maneein names the musicians he'd book in a wrestling match: one men's match, one women's match, and one tag team match!

Enjoy!

-

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About The Show:

Do you like wrestling? Do you like music and stories from the road? Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!

About the Host:

John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.

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Contact via email at johnkiernanmusic@gmail.com. Or fill out this form here! https://johnkiernanmusic.com/custom-wrestler-entrance-themes/#contact

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#music #wrestling #ropesnriffs #johnkiernan

the main theme the

2

stuff is on this.

3

And then you had the also the acoustic part was the.

4

That stuff is also this, this violin.

5

how much of that did they have?

6

First off, thank you for showing that.

7

That's so super cool.

8

When the number counts down, right?

9

Uh-oh.

10

like, I'm like, uh.

11

I feel like that's how my kid is when he takes photos for school.

12

They're just like, all right, you ready?

13

Yeah.

14

Right, right, right, right.

15

Once the number starts, it kind of makes everything way more real.

16

And then you're kind of like.

17

That's, isn't that the joke too about like your kids getting uh their photos, like you pay

like hundreds of bucks for your kids to literally be like...

18

Yeah, you're like, why, why, like you look so nice, you know, that's actually the, I think

the, the, the strong argument for like, like a candid photos where you just like, you just

19

don't tell them, just take the picture and then that's it, because then they, they don't

make weird faces or they don't stop and go.

20

Yup.

21

My favorite pictures of my kids too, like look, they're in school, they do the

professional photos, but dude, my favorite photos of my kids are like when they're at a

22

friend's birthday party or they're just like run around the backyard and you shoot that

photo of them, they just have like this elated face.

23

You're like, dude, that's the moment.

24

That's like the, have kids for this moment kind of thing.

25

And it's just the most natural, coolest thing.

26

So for me, yeah, absolutely.

27

I'm just like, and.

28

That's the thing, because you're capturing their joy or whatever is happening that's real

in the moment.

29

It's not like this sort of manufactured, which I think that's really the core of it.

30

That's an interesting thing about wrestling, what's manufactured, what's real, what's kind

of like...

31

Maybe I know a little bit more.

32

K-Fabe.

33

Yep, what K-Fave, yep.

34

That's what yeah, what's kfabe and then like they get off script, but it's real and then

like but clearly it's not but it is yeah anyway

35

It's awesome.

36

And for those who are wondering who we're talking about here and what we're going to be

talking about on the show, you guys have heard this gentleman all over the place for about

37

the last decade or so, maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit more, in a lot of

projects he's done.

38

But most notably for fans of this show, as we're talking about entrance themes, if you

know one Shinsuke Nakamura, you hear his theme, you hear that amazing violin, you hear

39

that amazing piece, that violin was recorded.

40

by my guest today.

41

Thank you so much for being on the show, Earl.

42

Thanks for having me, John.

43

It's real pleasure to be here.

44

Absolutely, yeah.

45

And we'll talk about Shinsuke Nakamura's theme a little bit here in a second.

46

But before we had been talking, like we've talked on and off over the years, but you know,

one thing that I remember just hearing you upfront is the tone that you bring to the

47

violin.

48

was actually, as many of you know, my wife and I were in a music school and I was talking

to one of my students here, one of my adult students, and he was like, yeah, I'm going to

49

learn the fiddle.

50

And I'm just like, I'm actually interviewing a gentleman tomorrow who plays violin and

viola.

51

But I'm just like, I...

52

wouldn't say that he plays fiddle, but with how aggressive he can be on that violin.

53

Like he can be classical and he can be really emotive in a sensitive way.

54

But when you hear this guy rip, I'm just like, I don't know if that charts into fiddle

territory or if it has nothing to do with the tone of it or it has to do with like what

55

you're playing.

56

But I was just like, I'm interviewing this guy who can basically do it all.

57

And you have done it all.

58

So I want you to tell the people a little bit about some of the things that you've done.

59

over time a little bit about your sound and we'll dive a little bit into that.

60

Sure, thanks.

61

Okay, so, I guess, for all intents and purposes, I'm a violinist.

62

That's what I do for a living.

63

That's my job, which is, I guess is maybe synonymous with bum.

64

Because I don't really, know, basically get texts or emails, you know, because nobody gets

on the phone anymore, and I get told to show up at a certain place at a certain time with

65

a wooden box.

66

and I go to the studio and do this and then numbers bigger numbers appear in the sort of

fantasy world of banks

67

In those establishments we call financial institutions.

68

those financial institutions.

69

Yeah, so that's basically my job.

70

I've been playing the violin since I was five, maybe even four, I forget, but four or

five, which makes me be playing the violin for about 43 years now.

71

That's such a good tenure to be playing the instrument.

72

It's a lot of hate to say it.

73

don't even you do the math people people over there can do the math.

74

Whatever.

75

It's been a long time.

76

Uh, I did the whole thing.

77

I went through I went through conservatory training with the private lessons from when I

was a kid and then I went to college for this.

78

I went to a new school.

79

I went to CUNY Queens College for my undergrad.

80

And then I went to the Manus School of Music, which was a uh

81

It's a division of the New School University for my graduate work.

82

have a master's degree in violin performance, which is, one could argue the usefulness of

that, but let's not for this podcast.

83

And then I just have been working professionally ever since.

84

I was in a bunch of bands.

85

uh...

86

and i also grew up in the hardcore scene and metal uh...

87

sort of extreme music kind of stuff ever since i was like maybe i want to say i started

going to my first underground shows when i was maybe thirteen thirteen going to sort of

88

vfw halls and church basements and uh...

89

quick, you talked about hardcore.

90

We're just going to real quick for everybody watching, you can see this, but for everybody

listening, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention your Converge

91

So I didn't wear this on purpose, just sort of inertia.

92

But yes, uh you know, huge, huge converge.

93

Dillinger, my quartet actually collaborated a lot with the Dillinger Escape Plan.

94

We're on their last album.

95

We did a whole sort of a I guess you can call it a tribute album.

96

did.

97

um

98

their album, One of Us is the Killer.

99

It was a pandemic project.

100

John and I, were speaking about COVID before we shortly before we came on.

101

And one of the big projects was that I did during the pandemic was uh was Ben Weinman,

call me up because, you know, we're friends and he was just like, I have an idea.

102

You're clearly, you know, you're doing nothing and I'm doing nothing.

103

And why don't we?

104

like how that conversation starts.

105

Hey, I got an idea.

106

You're not doing anything.

107

What do you got after that?

108

No, that's actually what Ben said to me.

109

He called me up.

110

Wait, are we allowed to curse on this podcast or am I watching myself?

111

What's going on?

112

Right.

113

So, right.

114

So he calls me and he goes, you know, there's the niceties of like, whatever, how's your

family?

115

How's your family?

116

Like, whatever.

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And then he goes and he goes, what are you doing?

118

I go fucking nothing.

119

What what what are you doing?

120

Right.

121

And he's like, similarly, fucking nothing.

122

But like, I have a I have an idea.

123

And why don't you, you know, you've already worked with us and how would you feel about

arranging and recording a whole sort of string quartet version of One of Us is the Killer.

124

And so I did it and it was that was that was a pandemic project.

125

So basically, I've been involved in hardcore and uh heavy metal sort of, you know, since I

was maybe, yeah, like I'd say 13.

126

uh

127

going to underground shows, kind of just being really, really viscerally involved and

loving that music as a sort of actual musical home for me, while schizophrenically also

128

kind of going to violin school uh and learning Western European classical and its sort of,

you know, descendant sort of music.

129

That's...

130

that too, because even when I went to music school, my wife and I met at Florida Atlantic

University years and years ago.

131

Her master's in piano performance.

132

My background is in music composition, technology.

133

They called it commercial music back then.

134

was kind of a degree that merged all those paths.

135

it's one of those things that, and there's a couple of things I'll touch on, but the first

thing is the fact that even though you have people that are rooted in learning like the

136

jazz style, the classical style, because there's so much music out there, now everybody is

into.

137

excuse me, all these different styles, right?

138

So it's like, you can have somebody who's in the practice room for four or five, six hours

learning Chopin, you know, learning Satie and all that.

139

And then all of sudden you see them at a Converge show or you see them at a local

hand-to-hand show and you're just like, man, that's really cool.

140

And I think that when I was growing up, before I'd even gotten really into like, you know,

studied music and whatnot, I was always just like, if you like classical, kind of what you

141

do.

142

If you like rock, that's what you do.

143

Right.

144

It was also like when I was young, I was like, you can either be a rhythm guitarist or

lead guitarist and you're kind of predestined at birth for what you're going to do.

145

You know, then I learned my first solo and I was like, completely different.

146

But I felt like when I was younger, there was no way that those would cross at all.

147

And then as I got to college and you get to meet a lot of different people like, you have

someone who loves Dream Theater, you have someone who loves Porcupine Tree, and then

148

they're listening to Miles Davis and then Amen.

149

Look at that.

150

They're looking at classical.

151

So it's like I think we're in real kind of special time there.

152

And

153

throughout your career, throughout my career, it's like you have all these musicians now

who are into a variety of things.

154

And then obviously comes the whole, cool, what do we do with that?

155

And that's where you get these records.

156

Like you said, this uh string version of Dillinger Escape Plan or all the myriad of

different things that come out are these hodgepodge styles now.

157

just label it progressive and then they can do anything they want.

158

Right or crossover or whatever.

159

Yeah.

160

Yeah.

161

Yeah.

162

I could not agree with you more John like a thousand percent man like I think and when we

were I don't know I don't actually know exactly how old you are so in with my generation

163

I still remember CDs.

164

Nice, nice.

165

Yeah, so I mean, when I was in like, it was actually weird drama.

166

Like when I was in violin school, like a couple times I would like sort of show up with

like I was definitely the weird kid there and like odd, odd boy out because I would show

167

up with, you know, like it's it's we were going to hardcore shows and part of that is

moshing and you kind of sometimes get a little hurt a little bit like so.

168

I definitely remember it was a really big deal.

169

One time I had a black eye like is like some kid backfisted me.

170

You know, like whatever.

171

It's kind of mutually agreed upon sort of thing.

172

And it was a big deal.

173

Like it was like, what is this crazy kid in in school?

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Like no one else is doing this.

175

And also the fact like I was it was definitely if you're playing classical music, you're

playing classical music.

176

And there's a wider issue that we can talk about or not.

177

about what I think sort of a class sort of divides uh an aspirational kind of like if

you're a lot of times if you were doing classical music it was you know classical music is

178

derived from like music of royals like commissioning you know like who was in who was

Mozart's boss who was Bach's boss like you know the Margrave of Brandenburg whatever right

179

and so you're writing this music that's intended to be sort of existing in a certain

social class

180

Right?

181

then metal and hardcore is definitely a folk music of our time.

182

Not folk music like Woody Guthrie, right, or whatever, but like folk music of the people

and of a certain social class.

183

So then you have this kind of like real um conflict, I think, that is apparent in there.

184

And I definitely was at...

185

I believe that kind of at the forefront of that, like I got a lot of weird looks and sort

of like pushback and like kind of a thing.

186

And I think what you're talking about is such a good thing because of base, maybe maybe

the Internet or maybe like, you know, like of of this sort of blurring of genres.

187

It's not that you have to play a certain style.

188

Incidentally within classical music there was even that divide of like if you're are you

playing like romantic?

189

you doing brahms?

190

Are you doing brahms and bar brahms this kind of a thing?

191

Beethoven or are you an early music person and you're only doing Monteverdi and uh you

know and and Bieber and Before Bach right so there was definitely this it was even like

192

the sort of really hard divide there

193

which maybe seems to also be going away.

194

And so I think the fact that these genres are getting blurred, that you can be into

dubstep and metal and, you know, pop and classical, kind of like ingesting the whole, the

195

macro is just fucking awesome.

196

I think that's a great development and that's one of the better things about our crazy

time that we're in, I think.

197

too.

198

And I think it's really cool that you brought up the history of like where a certain music

comes from.

199

Because I think a lot of the times, you know, a lot of people will learn the music in a

conservatory or they'll learn it, you know, from their teacher.

200

But we don't often go over the history of it.

201

Right.

202

And that's not instrument specific.

203

But I mean, we don't think about like when I talk to my students, I try to make it a point

of saying that a lot of the ways that we learn guitar can differ guitar teacher to guitar

204

teacher, mainly because we are such a rebellious instrument.

205

Right.

206

When we on guitar,

207

were years and years ago before guitars were there and lutes and everything.

208

People were learning by sitting together.

209

They were sheet music, yeah, for us.

210

But a lot of the times, of positions of the guitar, you're learning watching somebody,

right?

211

People can learn by tab, they can learn by ear, they can see scales on a

three-note-per-string thing, they can see it in intervals.

212

There's lots of different ways to do it, but just because of the layout of the instrument,

you have this different dynamic.

213

And I remember when I was going through school, it was around like 2009-ish time.

214

And I remember, I feel like we were the generation right when YouTube was starting to

become this place that people were using as a resource hub, right?

215

Before that it was just kind of like, you're uploading, I'm the juggernaut, bitch!

216

Now you're uploading everything else, right?

217

Like, cool, here's a lick, and people are starting to come up with those.

218

And I felt bad for the teachers in hindsight, and kind of then too.

219

But, you know, me, I came from a very not-schooled kind of guitar-ing, so, sort of speak,

I was taking lessons in the back of music.

220

store, which is not dog and I love my teacher to death, but I mean then you go into an

element of like the college side of it and I think the teachers at that time were trying

221

to wrangle, okay, you have a lot of these kids coming in who can play Dream Theater and

I'm just using them as kind of like an overarching example, right?

222

You could play these technical things, but then on the other side you're having trouble

with like a G major scale.

223

Mm-hmm.

224

Right.

225

lay these eight finger tapping lines, but when I put the C major scale in front of you

just to read it, you're sitting there being like, I have no idea what's going on.

226

And, you know, it was such a different dynamic of those teachers being like, well, I also,

you can do the rock stuff that you want, you can do the metal stuff that you want, but you

227

also have to learn jazz.

228

And it's just like that ended up having to take priority.

229

And I remember for me, it was a little bit difficult for a lot of like, you know, my

people in my classes and whatnot, because there was this weird divide.

230

But now I think in like 2025 there's so many different styles and so many people even like

such as yourself that you know You play violin, but you also play electric violin There's

231

a lot of people who have now taken like violin viola cello and have made that a staple of

their sound using effects changing styles All those kinds of things so Going almost 15

232

years later.

233

Let's say 15 20 years or so The math is wrong than that, but you get what I'm saying.

234

You now have all of these different Influences that come into it and you're like, hey

235

You don't just have to do this.

236

You should still study these styles because they're important.

237

And history is important to know where you've come from and where you're going.

238

And there's a lot to learn in those.

239

But you don't have to feel like you're locked down into a traditional style anymore.

240

You can merge it with everything.

241

And I think more people also take those skills and transfer them into lots of these

different things.

242

So, long spiel.

243

I think it's really cool where music is in 2025.

244

I agree.

245

agree.

246

And in a weird way, there's a lot to say that we will not say here, I think.

247

like, in terms of like, you know, the internet kind of being the great uh sort of like

equalizer in a way where it doesn't really like those things don't exist now because you

248

have access to everything.

249

And it can be a negative thing sometimes, this sort of access to everything.

250

But in this regard, I think it's an overwhelming positive.

251

that you have access to everything you can see what so and so what what you know, like not

that I'm into it, but I'm into it just listening, but I can't do it like you can you can

252

check out this Mongolian throat singer.

253

Just I just to click this and like like, wow, that that guy is doing crazy shit, you know,

like, and that's it.

254

That's that's that simple.

255

So.

256

And now we're going to do a little bit of a dovetail into a bit of what the audience for

the entrance themes here is going to really be excited about too, because you are the guy

257

that does it all, right?

258

But many of the people who are listening to this show are familiar with your work on

Shinsuke Nakamura's theme.

259

I know that's how I became familiar with you too, because...

260

back when that theme came out, a lot of us were starting to do covers, right?

261

And I'm sitting there listening to the song.

262

I have a cover that I did years ago, which I think was in 2016.

263

So that was kind of my foray into doing music in some sort of wrestling perspective, doing

covers.

264

Basically me listening to you going, OK, what's he doing and how does this work?

265

And I'm on guitar and, you know, people have done things afterwards in the same vein and

it's cool.

266

But you got the chance to work with

267

CFOs on Nakamura's The Rising Sun and it's still an iconic theme.

268

It's gone through lots of different transitions whether he's a good guy or a bad guy or

whatnot but your violin is always there.

269

Your violin playing in your music is such a staple for him.

270

So with that, you got the...

271

how did you get the call to start working with CFOs on that track?

272

Okay, so here's the interesting thing.

273

As somebody who's not actually into wrestling, know, uh WWE, like I only know like the big

things, it was just another gig.

274

I don't even remember who called me, really, but it was just kind of like what I was

saying, alluding to earlier, where like, you get a text, right?

275

And you go, oh, show up here at this time and place.

276

And that's it, right?

277

And I...

278

uh

279

I think whoever called me knew that I was an electric violinist also and they were like,

can you bring both instruments?

280

So I have both here.

281

So the instrument that's used on the Nakamura theme is this.

282

Look at that!

283

So this is a seven string electric violin.

284

made by a guy named John Jordan.

285

forget the exact town he lives, doesn't matter.

286

Anyway, but he, and it's interesting that you were saying that you were covering this

using a guitar.

287

And a lot of what I started doing was because I'm a metalhead and a hardcore kid, but I

just gravitate towards the violin more.

288

I mean, can play, oops, sorry, I just hit my own mic.

289

can play the guitar also, right?

290

As you can see, but.

291

but I'm just way better at the violin.

292

So my whole thing was that like I was doing metal on the violin.

293

So it was really fun.

294

So I was taking inherently originally guitar language.

295

So it's really funny that you're saying you were like covering the violin parts on the

guitar because it's basically the circle coming all the way back around because basically

296

I was doing guitar riffs on the violin.

297

So if I'm going to flip it on.

298

Sure.

299

And by the way too, just from the guitar perspective, a seven string guitar that I would

use would be standard EADGBE, but then the low would be a B.

300

What's the tuning on a seven string?

301

Totally kind, yeah.

302

E, A, D, G, uh C, F, B-flat.

303

Okay, cool cool.

304

So still kind of in fifths, like you're still running that, Yeah.

305

but it's reversed, right?

306

So instead of like the fifths ascending, it's descending, right?

307

So it's funny, cause like when you like on a power chord on a guitar, you do this for

like, you know, like an E, right?

308

Right?

309

Right.

310

I'm going to pull my guitar out.

311

Yeah.

312

Yeah.

313

On guitar, you would kind of do it like this, where if you're doing a power chord in

standard, it'd be this kind of thing, right?

314

So you'd be making it like this.

315

Yeah.

316

Unless you're doing it in reverse, in which case you could do the fourth like that.

317

Yeah.

318

it's reversed on the violin see I only have one finger can you hear that by the way?

319

oh so yeah I didn't really I haven't we haven't set it up so it like is actually record

you know so the Nakamura theme

320

Right?

321

So that was recorded with this.

322

The guys in CFO ran my electric violin through their DAWs and their setups, which I can't

speak to.

323

So I don't really know exactly what their plugins were or what.

324

So I don't really know.

325

But it was, you know, I'm assuming it was some kind of like amp sim, you know, like

whatever.

326

Yeah.

327

And

328

use.

329

Whatever.

330

Yeah.

331

So but this is basically.

332

The like I said, the circle, it's it's it's me taking from guitar land and like they had

the riff charted out on their keyboards and they were like, what kind of sounds can we

333

kind of come up with together?

334

do this and I was like well we can try this we can try we went through a whole bunch of

it's been it's been years now so don't really remember exactly right but it was basically

335

I did this you know did the what if I did this low

336

right, take their keyboard riff, what was originally written on, you know, on their MIDI

stuff.

337

Because when I came into the session, it was all charted out just on the computer.

338

And it was all kind of like a very dubstep-y sort of a thing, which remained.

339

It's definitely, you know, a dubstep-heavy kind of, especially the synths that are there.

340

You know, and yeah.

341

real quick before we keep going on that too, one thing that's cool about that violin sound

too, for those who may be instrumentalists too, with guitar you have frets, right?

342

So when you're sliding into notes, you still, you have a little bit of like this movement,

but it's not like where it's violin, where you're literally able to seamlessly go into the

343

note, right?

344

It's like, the sound that you get, I feel like the articulations that you did on that were

like so perfect for this theme, and you could only do that on violin.

345

Well, you know, so the funny thing is, so the guys obviously, it's not, I don't think it

was on purpose.

346

But now that I'm thinking about, let me put it on standby so you don't have this.

347

So, um it's not on purpose, but I think what is also cool is that so, like, to

oversimplify, there is...

348

a certain type of sliding that goes on in like in in Japanese in some kinds of Japanese

music not all right so it's evocative like if it's like it's to oversimplify but if

349

somebody wants to like evoke some quote orientalist I mean I'm bordering off like you know

like like in a uh sonic uh landscape right sonic scape on this um

350

a slide done in a certain way would evoke this kind of oh like feeling there.

351

Right.

352

So I don't I don't think it was on purpose, but it was kind of like accidentally

discovered, I think, in the process to what you're talking about.

353

So that's there.

354

And that's kind of cool.

355

And uh yeah.

356

So then we did that.

357

And they were like, that's really, really sweet.

358

Can you

359

But we want a little bit of a different sound also for the for the theme and so that was

done on On this which is actually the acoustic um

360

The the main theme was not done on an electric violin the main theme the

361

stuff is on this.

362

Right.

363

And then the

364

ask, because when you brought up the electric, I was like, I hear where the electric would

come in.

365

But in some of the videos that they did covering it, I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure

that I saw you using the acoustic.

366

And I was like, I didn't know if that was maybe like B-roll from afterwards when you were

just kind of figuring it out, or if it was like, OK, cool.

367

Because it sounded like that was the acoustic, and then you had the layer of the electric

under it.

368

Yeah.

369

Yes, that is, yeah, that's correct.

370

That's absolutely correct.

371

And then you had the also the acoustic part was the.

372

That stuff is also this, this violin.

373

how much of that did they have?

374

First off, thank you for showing that.

375

That's so super cool.

376

uh Second, how much leeway did you have to add like your own melodic contour or your own

articulations to it?

377

Okay.

378

actually a lot um the CFO guys were like super cool they I mean like they wrote all of the

the things it was all laid out for me by the time like you know it wasn't on sheet music

379

but it was on their MIDI controllers and they were like we got this thing we kind of hear

violin here what can you do for this this this kind of stuff and I just basically took it

380

and I kind of put my own

381

uh vibe on it, like understanding that this is again, not a wrestling fan really much, but

but I understand deeply that this is hype music.

382

Right.

383

That like I know that this is hype music.

384

This is this is what gets the crowd stoked that this guy is coming out and like, how are

we going to build this excitement?

385

for this there, you know, so they already laid the groundwork, you know, obviously the CFO

guys already had all their, it's already was all charted out.

386

um But when I said, I think I wanted, if you listen to the full track, there's definitely

me taking a bunch of solos.

387

That's what I was gonna ask.

388

Yeah, cause there are points in, like, let's say you just call it like A section and B

section, right?

389

Just to simplify it, A section being the main melody, B section being the part where

you're riffing up a little bit or soloing.

390

In those solos, those, didn't have written up.

391

They were just like, all right, cool, this is blank, do your thing.

392

And then you're like, I can do my thing.

393

I got you.

394

Cool.

395

right.

396

So the main things that were pre-written was the actual...

397

It was...

398

This was pre-written.

399

That was written the that was already written to.

400

um I'm not sure the electric violin thing was actually.

401

It might not have been and we might have done that together.

402

And then the.

403

You'll have to ask somebody else and then and then the the.

404

All that, like the dive bomb in, that was me.

405

So that was just doing a bunch of takes and in the control room, the guys being like, yo,

that was dope.

406

Or, you know, like, or let's maybe let's take that again.

407

you know, you know, you know, I think it was a very fast session.

408

um

409

It was funny, ah got, you know, uh a guy showed up that was not CFO's guy.

410

It was actually the WWE guy showed up with like a legal pad and like literally the suit

showed up and was like, well, sign this contract and you have no rights and this is your

411

money.

412

Thank you.

413

Just quick and that's it, yeah.

414

uh

415

it.

416

again, not as a wrestler.

417

I had no idea how big this was.

418

None.

419

For me, it was at the time it was just like another session.

420

Like it was like, OK, well, I'm just going to go in.

421

I'm going to do this thing.

422

Right.

423

And then the.

424

No.

425

No, um it was it was it was through word of mouth, I think they knew of me and like what I

do.

426

um And then that was it.

427

I just I went home and I was happy to get my uh

428

my little fee for actually.

429

OK, so here's the funny thing.

430

uh I got it.

431

Should I say how much so I got I got.

432

you on how transparent you can or want to be.

433

I don't mind.

434

All right, so I got paid 550 bucks for that session, right?

435

So it was like a 40 minute, I was there for about 40 minutes, right?

436

And the funny thing is, is that like you go in and you kind of do the thing and uh it's

such a huge song.

437

Like my friends were like, you only got paid that and it's that big.

438

And I'm like, but you know what?

439

But you know what, too?

440

Like, I'll say this, and I've always been somebody who...

441

has been grateful to be musically active and busy pretty frequently.

442

And I think that a lot of people don't think about it like that.

443

You know, they think about obviously everything that you see like, you need to get

royalties, you need to get this.

444

And different people do different things differently.

445

Different companies do different things differently, different composers, different

musicians.

446

Right.

447

And when you're saying that you got paid, first off, to for anyone thinking that 40

minutes is weird, session musicians can go in and like an hour take like 17

448

takes and they're all perfect like you and I remember one of my favorite stories is

hearing I forget his name but he's a session guitarist he for the goo goo dolls he was

449

like yeah for Iris I was in there I took three takes and they were like see you later just

like but that's the thing right is like when you're a session musician you it sounds like

450

a little but you're there for 40 minutes how many people get paid 550 an hour to do

anything you know

451

true.

452

And then also the thing is, like, thought like, like, like, think, look, what my friends

were trying to say, like, kind of have my back on, I definitely understand, because I do

453

think I brought something pretty cool that like, look, the CFOs had the thing.

454

But I definitely brought a little something that is kind of cool that adds to it.

455

But what I'll say is, look, I think it's all watered under the bridge.

456

It's not worth like, it's not worth.

457

I don't think my contribution was enough to demand more necessarily unless they were

willing to give it, which they're not because it's the WWE.

458

But, um, but look, I I like for years I was getting checks for Alicia Keys for a track

that we recorded and then they nixed.

459

I'm not even on the actual single.

460

Sure.

461

because I was in the session and because I had recorded it and because it went through the

union, I just kept on getting royalty checks for like years.

462

And I'm not, if you listen to this, it's an Alicia Keys song called Superwoman.

463

It's a cover of a Stevie Wonder song, right?

464

And uh I'm nowhere on that, on the single.

465

But I was at the recording session and I laid tracks down.

466

And because they worked out their deal with 802 with the union,

467

I royalty checks even though I wasn't on it.

468

So I think it's sort of all water.

469

My take on it is that like my friends are angrier about it than me because they love me.

470

But the way I see it, it's all water under the bridge.

471

There's like sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

472

And this wasn't even losing.

473

I still got paid for the thing the time I was there.

474

I did the thing.

475

I got out and that's it.

476

And it's kind of a cool, it's a cool song.

477

You know, I think if, yeah, that's.

478

it

479

I remember for me hearing it for the first time too because I was a fan of Nakamura when

he was in New Japan, right?

480

And I think a lot of people who were in love with Nakamura in New Japan wanted him to take

that and come over to WWE.

481

And there was a lot of points where, you know, he did do that and he had a great theme

that also had a violin called subconscious.

482

And then he came over, he has the rising sun now.

483

And that first time that you saw him versus Sami Zayn and everyone's just like, what's

going to happen with Nakamura?

484

don't think in modern history, knowing somebody's gonna come in, there was more pressure

on what's this entrance theme gonna be?

485

And I say that as somebody who's written over 150 themes for people and different

promotions.

486

I don't think that within the last, and I'll say it on the record again, within the last

20, 30 years, I don't think that there was a more pressure built for what's his entrance

487

theme gonna be?

488

And then it just starts, and from like the first two seconds, you're just like, all right,

this is unbelievable.

489

Nakamura comes out, he does this thing.

490

But like instantly, that theme in the business, we call it getting over, right?

491

It becomes real popular.

492

It got over, like real hard, real fast.

493

And obviously, he won that.

494

about the CFO guys also that's like how good their writing is too like even when I walked

in that studio I was like that's that shit's hot that's it's a hot riff so

495

you've probably seen or heard it taking on all these different transitions over the years

with the different versions that Nakamura has used, different people coming in and adding

496

their flair to it, like Nita Strauss, Alec Cooper, and all these different people.

497

And just obviously the covers and covers and covers and covers that there are, including

my own.

498

When you see the life that

499

your melodies have taken over and your riffing on violin has done.

500

What does that do for you?

501

I don't really, I am never concerned about that sort of stuff.

502

Personally, I think it's actually, you know,

503

You guys ever see that ever see that um, there's this hilarious thing about Mike not not

not you know like about Mike Tyson and this little girl is interviewing him and She goes

504

what do you think about your legacy as you know?

505

Heavyweight champion of the world and blow all this kind of stuff and he goes like

506

so fucking dark but also not he goes he goes well um i'm gonna be dead anyway and so are

you and so is everybody here so i really don't give a shit like like literally like legacy

507

means nothing to me because uh it really doesn't yeah because i'm gonna be dead and so are

you and then there's little girls like kind of like standing there like there's like

508

He's like, that's not the answer I was expecting at all from Tyson.

509

But, but I mean, what, what Tyson was saying, maybe not, maybe not.

510

I loved maybe his, his, his super direct way of saying it was off putting to some, but I

kind of, I kind of agree.

511

I think we're here.

512

We're just doing our best.

513

Like you just try to do some shit that like makes other people happy, makes yourself

happy.

514

you know that's it i think it's cool i i think it's really really cool um that other like

that that this thing is like that i've been a part of this thing that is so fucking cool

515

you know

516

And it's crazy too, because I would even argue that with CFOs and with that one, and I'm

putting you guys together in that element because I know that you're giving a lot of the

517

credit to CFOs, right?

518

But there is, it's the singer, not the song in a lot of ways, you know?

519

And I think that while they came up with something incredible and would continue to come

up with pretty incredible music for uh WWE during their time, that theme doesn't come

520

alive.

521

Like you could, they could have just left the midi stuff in, right?

522

They could have just left the violin in.

523

Sure.

524

I would argue controversially that that first theme will always be the best that it's

because of your playing it's because of the accents it's because of all that and You know

525

even those solos there's something to be said about when you know that someone is soloing

and then there's something to be said when you know that someone is just kind of messing

526

around and Like it's hot, you know, there's that bridge and you hear it in jazz all the

time, right?

527

Cool The song is actually 30 seconds and people just solo for seven minutes and use all

these

528

extensions and things.

529

And sometimes it sounds cool, other times it's just like, alright dude, let's get back to

the head.

530

Like, let's do it.

531

Yeah.

532

jerking off.

533

Don't, no one cares.

534

Right.

535

yeah.

536

This sounded like, and that's why I asked you, I'm like, was it written or was it just

improvised?

537

Because it sounds so intentional.

538

Like it sounds like, okay, cool, you sat down and you wrote this out.

539

Like I could envision if you were like, nope, totally intentional.

540

But again, your musicality brings to the fact of even your solos on that song were so well

put and so intentionally sounding that that's a huge testament to the work that you did.

541

That's awesome.

542

Thank you.

543

So I'll to answer not to answer to go on, go forward with what you just said.

544

Lately, I've been, you know, like one of the things I watch in my spare time is this sort

of like the Drumeo and the Musora sort of video.

545

Really, really great.

546

So fun.

547

Right.

548

And there is this.

549

While I oppose it philosophically, there was this, there was a sort of on Missouri, there

was a sort of a disco proggy disco funk band covering Alice in Chains is, uh, them bones,

550

right?

551

And philosophically, I'm sort of against it because it's such party music and Alice in

Chains inhabits this such a, just a, such a profound darkness.

552

in the music that to make it light like that kind of like I'm a little like right but but

they did at the same time on a technical level this band is on fire dude like these guys

553

were like coming up with like the coolest arrangements and like bang like like right like

what if we go like and then yeah yeah and then uh

554

Like it was right like suddenly all in and everything was like like on fire and this band

sounded incredible right and What I loved was one of the one of the Missouri guys in the

555

control booth said for those who are just starting out and Seeing you pull all the shit

like this incredible musicianship Like just out of your head like like it's seeming like

556

like that's nothing

557

Right?

558

Can you speak to that?

559

And the lead singer said a really wonderful thing.

560

he's just like, look, like these are like improv improvisation is basically like the thing

that you did a million times, like just kind of put in different places in each segment.

561

Right.

562

So like a lot of the hits, the horn hits that you think are common, like just out of our

ass, like, you know, like we've actually done that.

563

in a slightly different context a million times before.

564

If you listen to our original music, you'll hear that horn hit that we just pulled out

there in a different song.

565

And we just kind of like changed the context there.

566

So to piggyback on what you're saying in terms of my soloing and its improvisatory.

567

Yes, I just made it up on the spot, but I also didn't.

568

If that makes if you understand what I'm saying, like that, I've done this a million

times.

569

that like I have, I have building blocks.

570

It's like we all can speak, but we all knew our alphabet.

571

And it's just because we know the alphabet and we just put sentences together and it's a

new sentence, but it's not really a new sentence.

572

Yeah.

573

Yeah, and I think that when it comes to improvisation and stuff, I teach it the same way

to my students, because a lot of people are just like, you're expecting me to come up with

574

something?

575

And I'm like, yeah, totally.

576

And then you start going over like, well, you can use rhythms from this, you can do this,

or this is something that we worked on before.

577

And it's just like, now you're giving it like you, I think the word that you used,

context, was massive.

578

Because even like if you went back to things that you've done over the course of your

career, people could probably see something similar in Rising Sun and in some of those

579

riffs and things.

580

like that.

581

It's like, it's so true what you said.

582

And, you know, I have to, I have to dovetail back before we get into the two questions

that I ask everybody.

583

Have you ever met Nakamura at all after this?

584

You haven't?

585

okay.

586

No, it's kind of like those things where like you like, uh it's like a, it's, it's a

classic session musician situation where you never meet the person that you're on the

587

album, like, uh

588

It's just you don't, you know, sometimes you do sometimes, you know, like the in certain

cases, the art, the bigger artist is there and they come and they say hi and it's just

589

sort of like, hey, nice to meet you, whatever.

590

But I mean, it's I don't think and plus for whatever reason, internally, the WWE did not

choose me to do their live stuff like after I did the thing.

591

And I remember having a conversation with one of the guys from see, I don't remember which

which one of the two of them it was.

592

but they were actually between us.

593

It's not a secret, like, they were disappointed.

594

They were like, I don't know why management made that decision to not have you do the live

performances.

595

They went with some other guys, some tall skinny dude.

596

um

597

doing the live things and One of the CFO guys were like that's just that's fucked I don't

like that and I'm like well I got other work, so I don't really give a shit, but I mean

598

that's I mean I would have done it if you called me in time you know like but Whatever I

got you

599

me watching it, was confusing though, because at that point I hadn't known specifically

that it was you doing it.

600

About a year two down the line, had been like, OK, cool, is, Earl obviously did it.

601

But when I saw the, I forget who it was,

602

tall skinny dude that's all i remember

603

Yeah, I remember that other gentleman coming out and it sounded different and it sounded

like it wasn't the original, which, you know, fine, people take different things on

604

things.

605

But like it was such a specific, like we talked about earlier, it was such a hyper

specific sound.

606

And like even some of the ways that you would do like the improvisations, like those

slides and things, I was just like, it didn't have the same feel.

607

And I was just like, is this the same guy?

608

And you know, sometimes what you do on a record or what

609

you do in a studio is a little bit different because you're in a controlled environment,

things like that.

610

So I'm like, okay, maybe that's what happened.

611

And then they had the video of you just ripping it in the studio.

612

And I'm like, that's really interesting that it's not that Earl didn't do the live

performance.

613

But yeah, okay.

614

that was, yeah, that was weird to me too.

615

So here's a lot of people.

616

it's totally an internal WWE decision, which actually the CFO guys had no say in.

617

Um, none because they, because they, they told me that it was like, I don't know why they

didn't call you.

618

Of course, yeah.

619

Well, see, what we're gonna have to do one of these days is we're gonna have to get

Nakamura on the show and have you both in the room at the same time, some way or another.

620

We will make it happen.

621

I'm putting it out to you guys.

622

WWE, make it happen.

623

Fans, make it happen.

624

Both you guys in the same room.

625

It's gonna be great.

626

That would be super cool.

627

Super cool.

628

So we're gonna dovetail a little bit into Music City Rumble here, where you are

responsible for booking one men's singles match, one women's singles match, and a tag team

629

match, and you get to choose to put musicians versus musicians in the squared circle and

choose who wins those.

630

So let's start off with our singles match, men's versus men's.

631

Men versus men, one on one.

632

Yeah.

633

so, hmm.

634

Let's see.

635

Well...

636

Okay, so the funny thing is, are we counting...

637

So, for instance, like, I know that, like, Harley Flanagan from the Cro-Mags is a BJJ guy.

638

Right?

639

So, he already knows how to fight.

640

this guy like and you know i know it's not exactly pro wrestling right but like the guy

already knows how to fight plus that guy just had to fight squatting on the lower east

641

side for however many so i would say him definitely that guy um and then who like

642

I would just like him to see Beat- I would like to see...

643

Him beat the shit out of Morgan Wallen.

644

Morgan Wallen's been someone who's been brought up on the show a couple times.

645

So I just want to see him take a beating.

646

Actually, just I don't even know about his skill or what he knows or what he doesn't know.

647

But I just kind of want to see a chair kind of on the back of his head.

648

So Morgan Wallen goes down in that one.

649

I think it's a good time in uh Music City Rumble where Morgan Wallen has gone down.

650

Sorry, I'm into that.

651

Sorry, Morgan.

652

Not really sorry, but you know.

653

not sorry at all.

654

So that's that's the men's.

655

Women's one on one.

656

oh Nina Strauss, because she fucking kicks ass.

657

Right.

658

And that's a very good tie to rising sun.

659

Right?

660

Yeah.

661

So great tides, Anita Strauss.

662

And then, um, are we, are we talking about like people in their prime or like as they are

now?

663

You can make that distinction.

664

I would like to see Nita Strauss fight.

665

Stevie Nicks.

666

my god.

667

um

668

One is just a shredder and the other, oh boy.

669

Oh boy.

670

Who goes over in that one?

671

You gotta be careful on that one.

672

Right?

673

No, because Stevie Nicks, I don't think she can fight, but she's fucking crazy.

674

like, everybody knows that she's like, woo over here.

675

Right?

676

So like, I don't know.

677

I feel like, okay, as somebody who does dabble in, does dabble in martial arts, like I'm a

big Muay Thai aficionado.

678

Actually right after this thing is over, I'm running to class.

679

Right?

680

um, I would say, Nita does know a little kickboxing.

681

I know that.

682

Right?

683

But also you kind of have crazy, which

684

one meme that came out a while ago?

685

You know karate, I know car-razy.

686

Yeah, I know crazy, but as somebody who knows a little bit also crazy doesn't really take

you that far because you can't like you have no cardio.

687

You like three minutes is a long fucking time.

688

Actually, right.

689

So, you know, and I guess I'm approaching it from where I know from the boxing perspective

and not from wrestling.

690

But I imagine that the cardio and the athletics probably are somewhat related and similar.

691

So I would give it to Nita.

692

Alright, I'm into that.

693

And then you get the tag team match.

694

So you're putting a band versus a band.

695

Okay, well obviously from my own personal experience, I know the Dillinger guys are

fucking insane.

696

Like, Ben Weinman is he's like the nicest guy off stage and he's like actually a very

gentle guy also.

697

But you know, he's also a fucking lunatic.

698

And you know, so uh let's do the Dillinger escape plan versus that.

699

Do I want it to be close or do I want it to be just a total?

700

destroying like, like, or do I put them against like, you know, the Doobie Brothers or

something?

701

I don't know.

702

What?

703

that you put them up against, Greg is gonna have the upper hand.

704

Yeah, Greg is a fucking lunatic too, right?

705

He's just insane.

706

He's like, right?

707

So, I guess it depends on whether you want to see an actual match or you want to see just

total like destruction.

708

Um, like not even an actual match.

709

Okay.

710

So who also can like match the crazy?

711

Oh, I know it would be all of Dillinger versus just Gigi Allen.

712

Okay, so there, who goes over?

713

I think.

714

I think the Dillinger guys take it though because of sheer numbers.

715

think, but I think, I think, or how about this?

716

I think everybody dies.

717

Or what we could do is it gets down literally to just GG and Greg and Greg pulls it out

because you got to be able to say that He would literally get like at least four of the

718

people but he wouldn't be able to pass the test

719

right?

720

They both literally have thrown shit.

721

So.

722

I bet.

723

think like that.

724

like that.

725

I'm going to go with that.

726

I think Dillinger wins, but everybody dies except, but the whole band weakens Gigi Allen

so much that Greg could take them out.

727

That's where we end with that.

728

That's awesome.

729

And then last question I ask everybody when they come on.

730

If you had to choose three songs to put on a playlist that represent you, what three songs

would they be?

731

Okay, so I've been low-key thinking about this the entire time.

732

The first song...

733

First song is You Can't Bring Me Down by Suicidal Tendencies.

734

Because that's basically how I live my life.

735

basically...

736

Like, I think the world is a fucking crazy shitty place.

737

Potentially a lot, right?

738

And I think that you have to have that will in you that like almost it's almost I've

always I've struggled with defining this, but it's like

739

like it's like almost like a spite where it's like you can't know you can't fucking all of

you assholes are trying to take me down and y'all can go fuck yourselves because i'm still

740

here like i'm here like you know what mean this kind of like you can't touch me i know

you're trying but come come come to me you know what mean like i think that that's

741

definitely in a weirdly positive way it's like positive spite

742

if that makes any weird sense.

743

that's one.

744

I would say you can't bring me down suicidal.

745

um

746

I think...

747

Maybe, uh

748

Well, it's a classical piece, so there's no words.

749

But I think I really, what resonates with me very, much to my core is the last movement of

the Bach Partita in D minor, which is the Chaconne.

750

um And I think it's Bach at his simultaneously, like most intellectual, but also deep

spiritual.

751

He wrote it right after his wife, his first wife died.

752

And...

753

um

754

we know there's a lot of, uh there's a lot of him trying to kind of like know God through

this sort of like construction of like mathematical like it's super like, it's super

755

mathy.

756

Sure.

757

also not just it's not just an intellectual exercise in that way.

758

So I think there's that there's that kind of a amalgam there.

759

it resonates with me very, very, very deeply.

760

So I would say the last movement of the unaccompanied uh D minor partita for violin, the

Chaconne.

761

I guess the third one, what do I love?

762

What do I love?

763

What do I love?

764

um

765

What resonates with me?

766

Third one that defines, that has a big way, that goes a long way to defining me.

767

That's really hard.

768

ah

769

The Ravel Piano Trio, Passacaille

770

Good choice.

771

That's another, that's the other one that like, find myself really like always coming back

to always, always, always.

772

So,

773

Ravel's so good too.

774

Ravel's one of my favorite composers and I never miss an opportunity to talk about Je

D'Eau or ah just any of his work.

775

For me, it's funny too, because my wife has played a lot of Ravel's pieces before and

she's always just like, he was an amazing composer, but not an amazing pianist.

776

And I'm like, really?

777

And then I hear the way he interprets his own music and I'm like, man, there's some things

that people play and it's so emotive and so just slow and moving.

778

and technical but beautiful and then you hear him play it and he's just a shred guy and

I'm just like alright he speeds through so many of those things

779

Right, right, right.

780

It just goes to show the difference between the composer and the performer and that sort

of how it gets it can get how that perception is so different and allows for the performer

781

to like really bring out things that maybe the composer didn't even really know or mean to

do, but is still valid.

782

Absolutely.

783

Well Earl, thank you so much for making time to join us today.

784

There's a, I love the fact of us being able to talk music, talk Nakamura, but there's so

much that you bring to music and so much that you've brought to wrestling fans through the

785

Sonic, through the Vision and all that.

786

And so I just can't thank you enough for sharing some time with us today.

787

John, listen, thank you for having me.

788

It's been a real pleasure.

789

I've had a lot of fun shooting the shit with you.