There hasn't been a single fragrance brand that has cracked the code on creating a fragrance that is 100% botanical, has zero synthetics, uses non- denatured alcohol AND smells like a truly fine fragrance with all it's complexities (until now!). 

One or two have gotten close, but consumers complain they smell too strongly of layered essential oils and not enough like the perfumes they miss. Don't get me wrong, I wear essential oils all day and love them.  But I missed having a perfume to love.  The other thing is that most of them are still using petroleum derived additives in their denatured alcohol.

When my friend Gaya, the visionary CEO behind Wyld Notes, approached me about ingredients for the this new 100% synthetic free fragrance line, I honestly didn't realize just how difficult it would be to create something that was 100% natural.

This podcast is our story, the behind the scenes that takes you from the vision to the creation of Wyld Notes. (launching in March!).  We expose why the "clean" fragrance movement isn't as clean as you think it is and why Wyld Notes is so different than anything else out there. 

In today's episode, we're chatting about: 

• Why synthetic fragrances are linked to migraines, skin reactions, and hormone disruption 

• How Wyld Notes sources ingredients from regenerative farms 

• The truth about denatured alcohol in perfumes 

• Why traditional fragrance houses resist going 100% natural 

• How to layer botanical perfumes for a unique signature scent

• Find your signature Wyld Scent with the scent quiz
• Read the shownotes
• Watch the interview on You Tube

About Wyld Notes

Launching Mid March!

• Visit their website.
• Follow them on Instagram.

Download the Top 25 Toxins to Avoid and become a label reading pro! 

Getting started with red light therapy with 40% off the LUMEBOX.

If you enjoyed this week's episode, please:

• Leave a positive review or rating wherever you listen
• 
  
• Shop toxin free products on my Toxin Free Shopping Guide
• 
  
• Post a screenshot, share what you loved, and tag me on Instagram @wendy_toxinfreeish
• 
  
• Want to ask me a question to get answered on the podcast? Leave me a voice message here.

Read The Shownotes Here

Mentioned in this episode:

Toxin Free Faves ads

Head over to toxinfreefavorites.com to  shop all the toxin-free goodies that you would find in my home. Curated, tested, and well loved by me!

Welcome back to the Toxin Free-ish podcast. As always, I'm your host, Wendy, a former environmental toxins attorney turned clean living coach. And this is where toxin free living meets real life. And today's episode is such a special one for me. I've literally been counting down the days to finally share, and actually months, I've been counting down the months to finally share this conversation with you.

I have had the incredible opportunity to help shape something truly groundbreaking in the clean fragrance industry. And that is a brand new 100 percent botanical fragrance brand called wild notes. And today I have the beautiful and talented Gaia with me, who is not only a friend and a fellow entrepreneur, but she is the brilliance and the passion and the CEO of wild notes.

And in this episode, Gaia held nothing back.

She is sharing how she navigated countless hurdles in everything from finding a fragrance house who was more than just willing but really excited to create blends with 100 percent botanicals, to holding the highest standards of sourcing ingredients from regenerative organic farms, and even the near impossible task of finding a manufacturer willing to use pure, non denatured organic alcohol.

And I can't wait for you to hear about this journey because it Honestly, it's not just about the fragrance itself. It's about shifting an entire industry towards greater transparency and cleaner choices. And you know, I am all about that here. Plus, you're going to love hearing about the unique scents that completely changed my mind about what botanical fragrances can smell like.

Wild

wendy: Gaia, welcome to the Talks and Freesh podcast. I'm so excited you're here. I have been waiting. What is it? Six, six months now we've been talking about this. Yeah, I think it's been six months. You are coming out, well, you're the woman, you're the brains, and you're the beauty, which is what I say, behind the new brand, Wild Notes.

Thank you so much for being here. I would love for my audience to kind of know, how did this all get started?

We both realize how Bad when it comes to ingredients how bad the fine fragrance world is and she said I want to bring something new innovative clean and safe for people in I was asked if I want to come and partner with her to create something new It was hard to pass up an opportunity like that in more than anything else to work with someone that I I [00:04:00] Respect so much.

And I have known for over a decade. So I jumped at it. I just said, okay, let's just figure it out. So that's kind of where it started. And that was, six months ago.

wendy: I love it. And you had no idea what you were getting yourself into, did you? Yeah.

gaya: so because I didn't even take time to think through and process it because we just sat down and we were just talking. It's been a while since we've seen each other in two hours into the conversation, she goes. So Gaia, do you want to come and do this with me? And I looked at it. I was like you asking me to answer that question right now on this one But you know, that's how the best things in our life always happens, right it's unexpected But i'm always up for a challenge.

That's just my personality and , You just jump in headfirst and ask questions later type of person. So I said yes

But. Even just hearing people or getting messages on the internet of women saying like I miss perfume like women I think just innately we love smelling beautiful. We love smelling good We love other people noticing that we smell good. I think it's just something that we really enjoy and For women who you know can't use synthetic perfumes because they have reactions skin reactions migraines I can't cannot go near synthetic fragrance.

So bear with me. I just want to like list them out really fast. And for my community that's listening and for anybody new to the podcast, I have individual podcasts touching on each one of these ingredients that you can go down in the show notes and listen to. But. A lot of this undisclosed synthetic fragrance perfumes that are out there, they have things like phthalates in them, which are endocrine disruptors that can lead to infertility.

They can lead to birth defect issues as well as an increased risk of breast cancer. They have lileal in them, which is a fragrance ingredient that has been banned in the European Union since last March, but they gave brands five years notice. And they said, Hey, this is a reproductive toxin. You need to get it out of your perfume, but it's still widely used in the United States.

gaya: Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent. I, I, I remember really taking notice in some of the ingredients in personal care, skincare, about 10, 11 years ago, especially after I had my daughter in really looking at ingredients and saying, like, if it has fragrance in them. I have. slowly taken them out of my products that I use.

I think in the beauty space that hasn't evolved when it comes to clean I feel like when you look at skin care, hair care, body care, there are a lot of cleaner products and brands out there. At least a lot of brands are attempting to keep it clean and making improvements. And there's, I think, more regulations around them as well as an industry.

Like, it's crazy to think that we've had, we, it's a growing industry, but we haven't really evolved from a clean industry. Ingredients standpoint, and that's where we wanted to make a difference. We wanted to go back to the roots of what fragrance really were thousands of years ago. They were pure essential oils and, these natural ingredients people combined together to create these beautiful scents.

So I think that's just, we are redefining the fragrance space and that's where I am so excited about it because it's innovative. It's different.

wendy: it is. So to your point, there are so many clean skincare companies out there right now. And I know cause I've reviewed them all and there's a lot, there's a lot out there and there are some fragrance companies that, you know, really sell themselves as clean. They market themselves as clean and there's this new movement that I call the safe synthetic movement where companies are making, perfumes and they're using these quote unquote safe synthetic molecules, which basically just means they're synthetic molecules that the company has decided for themselves that they're safe, right?

gaya: From day one, we knew we're not going to use any synthetics. But to your point, though, when I, , interviewed different fragrance houses, I spoke with seven fragrance houses and these are all Top 10 in the world, right? So these are not little mom and pop shops. These are top 10 in the world with decades of experience in, in worldwide global presence and the full belief for every top brand that you can just name it out there.

But, but we knew we didn't want to do the same old. We wanted to push the boundaries and do something different. So I kept going. I kept interviewing different fragrance houses until I found one who was actually excited about the new challenge. I mean, they said on our first conversation, they said, we've never done this before.

I'm going to be honest with you. We've never done this before, but It's exciting. Instead of doing the same old, same old again and again, we're excited to innovate. We're excited to create something new and different in the space, in, We're willing to work with you in, they happen to be 150 year old fragrance house that was started in France in have a global presence.

They don't have that sophistication that you get from a, from a, from a True fine fragrance and but we want it all right. I went to them. I want it all I wasn't willing to compromise on the performance or the ingredients and the challenge was can you combine the two? And they did so It's always out there.

I think we can always push boundaries, but We have to find the right partner to do it. Right people who see the vision.

I actually, you know, looking back at some of the reviews that I've done, I do think that it's easy to be hard on brands and say things like, oh, this isn't clean, this isn't clean, this ingredient isn't clean. But when you start to get to know the brands, you find out one of their hurdles is getting a manufacturer who's willing to actually make a formula with what they're asking for.

And, you know, that is something that would have never crossed my mind before, but now I am. Intimately familiar with, with that struggle. So one of the very first things that you started sending me alcohol, you know, I'd get these text messages from you. Like, what about this one? What about this one? What about this one?

That's pretty, I mean, in a nutshell, that's the whole thing. And so if you want to make a perfume and sell it without these extra chemicals in the alcohol, which you were very clear from the beginning, this is a non negotiable. We are not denaturing. are alcohol. And also just as you know, for education purposes, if the words alcohol do not are on an ingredient list, that is a denatured alcohol.

I actually started, it was keeping me up at night. How, like, how many do you think you called?

gaya: I probably call between me and, My team, we probably call about 70. Or so around the world around the country, but I want to go back to talking about denatured alcohol a little bit. There are two ways of denaturing alcohol to, one is actually using essential oils so you could use. a very strong oil like peppermint or bergamot to denature the alcohol.

That that are denatured with essential oils, but they were just they was very strong and you will get a bergamot Fragrance if you use that so we couldn't use that. So in when you use the do when you formulate fragrances fine fragrances You have to use the denatured alcohol. That's denatured with something like tba a chemical That that's obviously uh a

wendy: a scent to it. It's

gaya: Yeah, it doesn't have a,

wendy: to

gaya: yep, but you can drink it because it makes it poisonous or it's undrinkable, but it doesn't interfere with the fragrance oil blend.

But the problem with that was all the manufacturers needed a very special permit to be able to use it, use that or bring it even to their facility. They have to have an alcohol beverage license.

wendy: Yeah, it's

gaya: But, but,

wendy: Like a bar.

gaya: yeah, like a bar or a distillery, or a winery, they are the ones that who has it.

So I have found some big companies They have license but They don't their specific plant only does one or the other so So it was just really really hard in um Honestly, after calling about 70 or so manufacturers around the country, we have found two that, that actually had the

wendy: Total.

gaya: Yeah, that's it.

I do not know. I came to a point almost saying maybe that doesn't exist. Like we'll have to get our own license and put our own manufacturing.

wendy: to do that. Yeah. And that's, there are a very small handful of, you know, companies that are filling it and manufacturing it like themselves to, yeah, to get around this.

That specific license, so I started going middle of the night one by one to see if any of them manufacture cosmetics and, and found one here,

wendy: in your backyard, right? Are they're really close to like, literally, I remember you were like, I'm going to go drive over there. It's wild.

gaya: Yeah, but I mean, it just goes to show how far behind we are. in the, in the fine fragrance world when it comes to having safer, cleaner products.

And so I don't know. I, I still remember in vivid detail you telling me, we found, we found, we were even joking we're like, we should open one. We should, you were like, we're in the wrong business. Maybe I need to invest in a plant, you know, a manufacturing plant. Like clearly there's a need here for this.

gaya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think the more consumers demand that, I think they will, it will hopefully will improve. Hopefully we will, create awareness through what we are doing, to make the consumers more aware and educated and demand better for themselves. Right. And that's the hope.

wendy: Yeah. Well, now other companies will see like, well, Wild Notes did it. Right? Like if they can do it, we can do it. And so I think collectively as a community, it will get the word out. And I, I hope what I hope happens is that more companies will start demanding it. So

wendy: Okay. So one of the other things I hear all the time is, what we already touched on, but it's this idea that.

Oh, it's great if you want to make a perfume that's like 100 percent botanical, you know, yes, of course that's clean and beautiful and safe and good for you, but you're destroying the environment, right? So I hear this a lot. I hear a lot of, it takes way too many botanicals. It's super destructive to make a little bit of perfume.

It's not eco friendly. It's not good for the environment. And to that, I always say to these companies that say that to me, you could be a part. of the solution. Because if you were supporting the farmers and sourcing from regenerative farming sources, then you could actually be healing the environment. So Wild Notes is sourcing from regenerative, zero pesticides, organic farms, And that was like a core value also from the beginning.

gaya: Yeah, so there are three different sources. One, obviously some of our, unique ingredients come from our own farms that practice regenerative agriculture. They're certified organic. I mean, we take a lot of pride in, Farms around the world, right? So there's, there's that, and then there are some, actually some of these ingredients come from the wild and, uh, just to go with our name, right?

Like they went through their supply chain just the same way that we do. And that's why I was excited to partner with them because they have very same, Like we do same standards like we do and they look at business like the way that we do. So it was really exciting when I found them. You know, when you find a partner business partner that actually has the same standards, it's just it's just the best partnership.

So those are the three ways that we source our ingredients that go into our fragrances. And then obviously, when it comes to alcohol, it's organic, non denatured sugarcane alcohol. So you are getting the best

wendy: The best

gaya: part. Yep. Yep. And when it comes to ingredients.

wendy: You're also a part of 1 percent for the planet as

And we'll start with, reforestation project, but as we grow, I mean, that's one of the most exciting parts of this brand that the impact that we will get to do around the world through this reforestation and other restoration efforts that we'll get to do. but yeah, I'm really excited about that.

I think that's. That's going to be our way of giving back to the nature that we take our ingredients from.

wendy: I think it's so important for people to understand, like, I talk about regenerative agriculture a lot, and I think it's easy to think that regenerative just means you do things a little bit better. But really what regenerative means is you're using cover crops and you are healing the soil and the microbiome.

And so when you support regenerative agriculture by sourcing from farms that are, do, and I have, been to a lot of these farms, you know, you just by sourcing them from there, you are making the environment better and you're, you're moving the regenerative agriculture movement forward. And I think that that in and of itself is beautiful.

And what I look for in like the best of the best and the cleanest of the cleanest, because I do think that botanicals are amazing, but you have to do it in a way that honors and respects our environment.

Yeah.

wendy: I love it. Opening doors. So let's talk about the actual perfume, right? Because that's why we're here. So we're talking about the actual perfume. And for clarity, the farms we're talking about are Young Living Farms. Wild Notes is sourcing these regenerative organically grown essential oils from Young Living Farms.

What is your, what is your, there's five. So when Wild Notes launches, which will launch soon after this podcast airs, there's going to be five favorite fragrances that are going to be launched and you're going to be able to get a discovery site of all five of them. So you can try them out and see which ones you love.

gaya: Yeah, so they are five very distinct fragrances and they are gender neutral. So you get to choose what you love and what works with your skin because when you wear perfumes and that's one of the things, right, it just, with your chemistry, it just, it smells different, right? And you can, we both can wear the same fragrance.

It will smell different. So that's the uniqueness about it. But we have a good variety. multiple different, scent profiles that we're hitting with these five in. So do you want me to go

wendy: Yeah, let,

gaya: by one? Okay.

wendy: through them one, one by one. I, by the way, I have them all and I, I have my favorite. I'll tell you, I'll, I'll keep that as a secret and then I'll tell you which one's my favorite as we go through them.

It has a little bit of sweetness, but Really deep, woody undertone to it. And then you have Timeless Floral, which is, I think, a really beautiful floral. , there's a mix of florals in there, a little bit of citrus in there. But it's just, it's really elegant, I feel like.

wendy: You know, for somebody who loves floral, I think they're going to love it. I knew, so I'm not a floral person. I've never worn florals before. It's just, I think everyone has their thing. I'm a citrus girl. I'm such a citrus girl, but I, I smelled it. And what I loved about it is, you know, I think the reason why I hate floral scents is because I hate synthetic floral scents.

gaya: Yeah. Yeah. And then you have your rugged wilderness. It just makes you feel like you're in the mountains and in the wild

wendy: And my son loves it. My son, my 16 year old son was like, am I getting a bottle of that?

gaya: I think, I think that's going to be one of the favorites for a lot of men, I

wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Great

gaya: and, and then you have, Fireside Citrus that has citrus, top notes, Mixed in with a little bit of woody undertone to it and it has a little bit of smokiness to it I I don't know. I just

wendy: It does.

gaya: absolutely love that

wendy: So I said, I'm a citrus girl. I hundred percent, when you sent these to me, I was like, that's going to be my favorite. Hands down. I said, from the very beginning of this project, please make me a citrus. I want a citrus and I love it. And it's beautiful. And it smells really good with my skin. And I, I adore it, but it was.

Not my top

gaya: Oh,

gaya: Yep sweet decadence, so I think this is this is probably the most out there trendiest One out of the five and it's the vanilla coconut pistachio it's a really sweet. Fragrance, it's I I I expect it to be a top seller, especially with younger girls Because I think it's very trendy But but that being said

wendy: I was going to say, I, I, I, if you, if you would have explained that to me and you did explain it to me and I was like, I'm not going to like that. Maybe my daughter will love that. I don't like like super sweet either. I'm just not into that. I am obsessed. with this fragrance. Like when I ran out, I cried. I was like, how long do I have to wait for the full bottle?

It's not like, I don't know, maybe I'm just used to like the cocoa butter and the super sweet vanilla, but oh my God, I love that perfume so much. I am so obsessed with it and I cannot wait to get my hands on a full bottle.

gaya: Yeah. I mean, here's the interesting part of, you know, when you think about vanilla, pistachio, sweet, you think it's, you know, For women, right? Even I kind of felt that way, but we had a friend over a few weeks ago in, I had him try, like smell all of them. And then I said, what, which one would you wear? And he said, sweet decadence.

None

wendy: were like, no really,

gaya: at, yeah,

wendy: this rugged wilderness one.

gaya: but he, he said, and he's like, no, but we, I mean, it was right. He was right. Because when we smell that on him, that was the best out of the five. So it was, he knew his stuff. But like, I don't want people to think, oh, that's very,

wendy: Feminine.

gaya: but that's where the discovery set come into play.

wendy: Yep.

gaya: and

wendy: I lair the fireside citrus and the sweet decadence. That is my, that is my sweet spot. I love it.

gaya: Mine is smoky ember and timeless floral.

wendy: Okay.

gaya: Yeah, yeah. And my husband likes smoky ember and rugged wilderness together. So I think that's the other beautiful thing. If you get the discovery set, you could actually layer them and see.

wendy: Yeah, what

gaya: have a signature scent that you absolutely love, and that's going to be very unique to you.

Like, It changes year to year and so one of the arguments in the perfume industry is if we want to make a fragrance that Smells exactly the same year after year after year. We have no choice, but to use synthetic. What do you think about that? Yeah That's wild. Yeah.

gaya: was told the same, but here's the beautiful part. Like, I don't think I even shared this with you. I mean, we are now in the, like, as we're recording this, we are now in the final stages of going into production. Right. So we formulated, of initial products when we first went through the process. Five months ago, four months ago, right?

Okay. To use for the final batch is a very fresh juniper batch, but we realized the juniper we used in the initial formula was a six month old batch that has already kind of aged. So they smell different. So the process is we are going to rebalance. the fragrance, the formula, every batch to create that consistency in every time they blend the oil, blend the perfumer going and rebalance and check against the previous lot to make sure that it stays as closely consistent as we possibly can.

wendy: want to do that. That's too hard You And you were

gaya: that is too hard and

wendy: too hard. Yeah.

gaya: costly, right? I mean, even when we talk about alcohol, one of the things that we didn't share is the non denatured alcohol costs twice as much as denatured alcohol because of the additional alcohol tax that's added on to. Every batch, every barrel that you get, it costs you twice as much

wendy: Yeah. So you can either get the denatured alcohol as petroleum derived ingredients in it and spray it on your body, or you can pay twice the cost for that alcohol to get something that does not have a chemical added to it just to comply with alcohol laws.

They know doesn't hurt their health and wellness, right? Especially I mean I have a daughter you have a daughter they all are in that same age around What they want to experiment with skincare, makeup, fragrances, and you can't stop them from doing it because that's just, we all have been there, right, in that age.

But at least as a mom, I feel good about being able to give a healthier lifestyle. Safer option for her.

And. You were quiet for a little bit and you said, we will figure this out. Like you just weren't even willing to go there. And then we followed on by talking about, we both have girls that are. You know, near the same age. And it's important as moms for us, like these hormone disruptors, these synthetic fragrances, these chemicals, like, like, I'm going to be so excited to give a bottle of this to my daughter and I can feel so safe and so comfortable and so happy that it, that this is an option for her.

gaya: Yeah.

gaya: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just lack of education is, is just, it's mind blowing. I mean, I didn't know, right? Like, I mean, I've been in the beauty space, health and wellness space, but I remember even going into this, I was very. Open and honest. And I said, I've never done fragrance. Like you have to know if I'm going to do this, like this is going to be a learning curve for me because I've never dealt with fragrance.

wendy: Because I'm, I have a whole perfume review that's going to be published with this episode. So everyone listening, there is a, if you want to know those, some of the brands using phthalates and using all of those awful things, I've got them all published.

But what I, what I saw when I started reviewing perfumes is on the front website, it says organic sugarcane alcohol, but when you go into the section of the label that's legally required by law. That's where it says alcohol, do not, and you know what, let's talk about transparency of ingredients. This is a perfect segue into the transparency because one of the things that you said from the beginning is every single ingredient will be completely and fully disclosed, which is true.

If you go to the Wild Notes website, which is linked in the show notes, you will see it right up front. It says up at the top. That beautiful picture. And then it says organic alcohol, right? But if you go to the label, the legal label, that's going to be on these bottles, it is not going to say alcohol did not, but a lot of other companies that that's how deep you have to dig to find it.

In that said, I mean, as moms who would want to put toxic chemicals on their kids, no mom would say that, but that, but that lack of knowledge and the resources, they're doing it without even knowing, but the harm that they're causing their children. So, yeah.

wendy: So last topic, this is also something I am very passionate about. Because you know, I've had a couple of brands, CEOs and founders on the podcast, and I always like to talk about the fact that. Smaller brands like Wild Notes that are trying to do the right thing, you're competing in a space with massive mega corporations, like these massive corporations that are bajillion dollar juggernauts that are out there.

You know, get out there and go share affiliate links online. Go share with your friends and family, make some extra money by doing it. So Wild Notes is, does have an affiliate opportunity. And while you do source your oils, you know, from Young Living and all of that, Wild Notes is not a network marketing company, but you are going to have an affiliate program.

Can you talk about that?

So we, and then obviously we want to share our wins with those that who are partnering with us. So our affiliate program, it's super simple. It's a 25 percent commission on every product that you sell in the, some things that's slightly different with us is you as an affiliate, if you introduce You get that 25 percent commission on the reoccurring orders of that customer as well.

It's not one and done because I

wendy: to find in the affiliate world, that recurring revenue. Yeah,

you it's retaining that customer is much easier, but if you are going to do the legwork to bring in that customer and introduce that customer to our brand, why would we not reward you for their

wendy: better than paying,

gaya: right?

wendy: I always say this, you can pay marketing firms, you can pay for a ton of ads, or you can pay People, and I am an advocate for women making money at home all day long, pay women, pay the moms that are at home that want to do the work. You don't need to have a large following like I do.

And I really think that affiliate marketing is ethical marketing. I feel

gaya: 100 percent and and also if you are partnering with a brand that does the right thing moving the industry forward You are being part of a movement in my mind in if we collectively come together voice our opinions share this Share the stories and demand more and demand better from brands. , it will collectively move the entire industry forward and that's how change happens.

I am a hardworking mom and I can accomplish whatever I want and still be present for her and be a mom, be a wife, and that's what the example that we need to set in being an affiliate marketer, being able to work from home and make that income gives women that flexibility to care for their kids.

And I'm a big, big advocate for that. So I'm excited to partner with so many women, but also men who are

wendy: I was going to say that rugged wilderness and apparently sweet decadence. There's going to be men that love that

gaya: Yeah. And, and I think there are more and more men that who are advocating for clean health wellness. I think there are a

gaya: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think when it comes to clean products, health, wellness, beauty, personal care space, I mean, men's products are a really growing category because there's demand, there's awareness and people are more mindful today.

Right? So, I think we, we have a great program. We would Love to partner with those who are as passionate as we are about this movement, and we welcome you to partner with us. And obviously we want to reward you through our affiliate program.

wendy: So I would, you know, one of the things that I love about what you're doing is if you go over to the Wild Notes Instagram page, you are actually doing behind the scenes, real From the farms and telling the regenerative farming story, which is something that I love because I think people want that connection.

The website. Is has so much information get on the mailing list for wild notes I love all the education about clean living and ingredients that's coming out like you guys aren't just Creating this really beautiful botanical fragrance. You're also like educating everyone and I just want to end by saying I really believe Like, this is going to change, and I know it sounds dramatic to say, like, this is going to change the perfume industry, but what you have done, opening the doors to getting manufacturers willing to make non denatured alcohol, sourcing from regenerative farming so you're protecting the environment, like, you are proving you can make a clean botanical fragrance and you can do it right.

gaya: of it because you have, I mean, all this knowledge in education and experience that you brought to the table that I didn't have. And it was such a great partnership too, I was so relieved that I could actually text you middle of the night and ask you questions and you were so willing to look at things and look at documents and give me feedback.

And I mean, it's a teamwork, right? And I, I do have my expertise, but that the level of knowledge that you have about ingredients is not my, strong suit. So thank you for being part of it. And you added so much value as we went through that formulation process.