SHOW TOPIC:

Clair and Daniel Prince bring the proof-of-work.  Homeschooling while you’re traveling the world takes commitment and courage.  In this episode they share their perspectives on un-programming ourselves as parents, teaching values to children, the importance of critical thinking skills, regulatory creep in Europe, and developing deep and bonding relationships with your family.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

• Clair and Daniel started their journey on world schooling in 2014.
• Originally reason had nothing to do with education.  It started because they wanted to exit the corporate rat race.
• Self-directed education includes world schooling, unschooling, homeschooling, self-led learning.
• Benefits have included spending time with their children, seeing how they learn differently from one another, and so much more.
• When Daniel first left his fiat job, he and Clair had to work out the balance.  They had different methods of discipline, different approaches to teaching, different expectations of learning, different levels of patience, etc.
• It’s important to understand you have to do a lot of de-schooling and un-programming of your own.
• Socialization fears with alternative education are not just wrong.  The reality is homeschooled kids are demonstrably better interacting with people of all ages, including adults.
• Transition time between activities and events is critical
• You can learn skills later in life, but you can’t go back and create time with your kids.  You’re building lifelong relationships.
• One of the biggest rewards is teaching your kids to think critically
• How to have conversations with older children about the decision to go to university or not
• The word “drop out” is a psy op
• Western European countries are making it harder for parents to homeschool since covid
• World schooling is still a cheaper way to live than staying in one place
• Clair and Daniel are still judged today on their original decision to world school versus looking at the results, e.g., being bilingual
• World schooling takes work, but it’s worth it

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

Daniel is the host of the 'Once BITten Podcast' Once BITten

Daniel’s book “Choose Life” Choose Life

Daniel’s Twitter: @PrinceySOV

Daniel’s Orange Pill App (OPA): @princey

• Hannah Miller “10 Ways World Schooling Has Ruined My Childhood” https://edventuregirl.com/10-ways-world-schooling-has-ruined-my-childhood/
• Kahn Academy https://www.khanacademy.org
• Kubrio https://kubrio.com
• Outschool https://outschool.com
• Gabor Maté’s “Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers”
• Murray Rothbard’s “Education: Free & Compulsory”
• Peter Gray’s “Free to Learn”
• Interview with Peter Gray on Once BITten 142: https://fountain.fm/episode/VTzhdlX9sMKpv11pLIQ1
• Interview with Pat Farenga on Once BITten 390: https://fountain.fm/episode/lEsk9HVonYRXOIjzoJOs

John Holt books

• “How Children Learn”
• “Teach Your Own: The Indispensable Guide to Living and Learning with Children at Home”
• “Learning All the Time”
• “How Children Fail”
• “Instead of Education: Ways to Help People do Things Better”
• “Growing Without Schooling” (GWS: The Complete Collection)

Naomi Fisher Books

• “A Different Way to Learn”
• “Changing Our Minds: How Children Can Take Control of Their Own Learning”

John Taylor Gato Books

• “The Underground History of American Education, Volume I: An Intimate Investigation Into the Prison of Modern Schooling”
•  “Dumbing Us Down - 25th Anniversary Edition: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling”
• “Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey Through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling”
• “A Different Kind of Teacher: Solving the Crisis of American Schooling”

HAPPY TO HELP:

• Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
• Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
• Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
• Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
• Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
• Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

• Subscribe, like and share this podcast with others
• Visit our “Free Market Kids“ for products like the Bitcoin mining game, HODL UP  https://www.freemarketkids.com,
• Enjoy a 21% DISCOUNT on pre-sales of the 2024 Halving Collectors edition of HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/products/hodl-up-2024-halving-event-commemorative-edition
• Check out Tali’s podcast by and for Bitcoin women, “Orange Hatter” https://www.orangehatter.com  
• Have fun with “Proof of Work Apparel” https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/proof-of-work-apparel

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

• Article "Homeschoolers Are Bitcoiners Who Don't Know It Yet" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/parallels-between-homeschool-and-bitcoin
• Tali’s “Quick Start” checklist  https://www.freemarketkids.com/blogs/i-want-to-start-homeschooling/i-want-to-start-homeschooling-quick-start-checklist

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

This is called alternative education.

2

What we've come to realize, and many

homeschoolers have come to realize,

3

that alternative education is locking

a kid in a freaking classroom with

4

30 strangers for eight hours a day.

5

That's alternative.

6

There's nothing natural there.

7

The critical thinking I think is

the most important thing and being

8

able to make their own decisions,

look into things themselves.

9

not take everything at face value.

10

There's gonna be more and more

homeschooled kids in the next 10 to 15

11

years So for anybody that's contemplating

this, it's, , very important to understand

12

that you've got to do a lot of de

schooling and unprogramming of your.

13

Own.

14

. Scott: Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

15

Talia and I are always thinking about how

we can give back and we're not coders.

16

We can't make wallets.

17

We're not financial analysts.

18

We're not gonna write a book

on the history of money.

19

But we do have over two

decades of homeschooling.

20

We believe very strongly in the

separation of education state and

21

the self custody of education.

22

And the whole purpose of this Bitcoin

Homeschooler podcast is to serve as

23

a vehicle for us to help give back.

24

Part of that Is hearing other points of

view and other experiences and today we

25

are blessed to have Daniel and Claire

Prince and talk about proof of work.

26

These guys are world schooling, they have

written a book called Choose Life about

27

it, and we cannot wait to get into it.

28

So, guys, welcome.

29

Prince: Thanks for having us on.

30

Great to be here.

31

Scott: Alright, my thought is maybe we

start off the conversation, assuming

32

that people have not read your book.

33

Could you just give a little bit of

background on like your, your path

34

on where you are that I think just to

help ground things for the audience.

35

Tali: ground things

36

Prince: Yeah, absolutely.

37

We started this journey into

homeschooling, world schooling,

38

unschooling, self directed

education, uh, all of the above.

39

Because they all kind of like merge

40

2014, we, we left their old life behind.

41

We were living in Singapore at the time.

42

We sold pretty much everything we

owned at that stage and took off

43

with the kids and started traveling.

44

We thought we might go

for six to nine months.

45

But that ended up being two and a half,

almost three years of constant travel, uh,

46

with the kids, four of them aged eight,

six, and two, three year old twins at

47

the, uh, the time that we started that.

48

Uh, and that, yeah, really kind of

took us down the journey of what it

49

means to separate education from state.

50

And we've done all kinds of different.

51

education with them in a system, whether

that's private schooling, Montessori

52

style, or straight up state school in

Singapore, straight up state school

53

in France, and mix that over the last

10 years with other, other styles.

54

Self led learning.

55

Self led learning at the

moment, for sure, yeah.

56

But originally it was nothing to do with

education as to why, why we fell into it.

57

It was because We were looking

for a different way of living.

58

We wanted to quit the rat race.

59

And homeschooling was how we kind of

worked that first initial few years

60

because we wanted the freedom of travel.

61

And then once you start to learn about

it and read about it, and you realize

62

And see the results and see the results

and actually get to spend time with

63

your children and see how they're

learning and see how differently they

64

all learn, you know, having four,

they all learn completely differently.

65

And, uh,

66

Scott: yeah, that's

really, they really do.

67

What did you have support from both of

your both sides of the family or friends

68

when you were making that decision?

69

Prince: we had a lot of, interestingly,

we had some friends that were teachers.

70

And they were really supportive

about it, maybe because of the age

71

that the children were as well.

72

Uh, family, not so much.

73

I think it's a generational thing as well.

74

They were more shocked.

75

Yeah.

76

And that comes from The fear of

ruining their grandchildren, I suppose.

77

Yeah, and that comes from a point of,

obviously, love and concern and worry

78

and fear that We were being irresponsible

and going to damage our kids chances

79

of ever being able to go to college

and ever being able to get a job or

80

ever being able to socialize properly.

81

You know all of the FUD.

82

Scott: Mm hmm.

83

Right, right.

84

So, Tali, you wanted to comment?

85

Tali: Just from the point of

view of a mom, like logistic,

86

logistically, how did you handle that?

87

Because not only were you traveling,

which in and of itself is difficult,

88

but when you're also trying to school

on top of that, what did you use?

89

Like what material did you use?

90

What was your method of teaching?

91

Prince: Well, uh, originally, I mean, life

was crazy for us, um, at home back then.

92

Um, Dan was probably not home much at all.

93

So it was all on me.

94

And I had, the twins that were

coming up for three and the,

95

six year old and eight year old.

96

And Singapore was very much keeping

up with the Joneses environment where

97

they have to do all the activities

and, um, you know, swimming, dancing,

98

tennis, uh, all the, all the above.

99

And I was so stressed with getting

them everywhere and naps and trying

100

to be the mom with no family to help.

101

And, so something had to give.

102

And it was more a case of me snapping

at a child because they've forgotten

103

their ballet slippers at the age of six.

104

And thinking, this isn't right, this,

why should my five year old even care

105

about Um, ballet slippers and um,

so traveling and homeschooling now

106

all of a sudden I've got Dan around

so I've got an extra person, um,

107

to help, um, and we love to travel.

108

She wanted to say Hinda there, by the way,

109

Scott: Well, that's a,

110

Prince: but um, Scott knows

what I'm talking about.

111

Scott: Yeah, there's a transition.

112

So not, we, we haven't done the world

schooling, but we're about a year trying

113

to go full time with our entrepreneurial

Bitcoin education and it's different.

114

I mean, I'll, from the man standpoint

to be, to be around, to see how much

115

work Tali was doing to keep all kinds of

things going that I just had no idea on.

116

And then I'm like, okay,

well, well now what do I do?

117

Like, um, I wanted a man,

I'm supposed to help.

118

No clue how this, this operation

is really, is really running.

119

So, I mean, you guys, it sounds like

you guys did fine with it, but it was a

120

Prince: No, to start with, it was

tough because we had different.

121

Methods of discipline and different

methods of what approaches to teaching

122

and different expectations of learning.

123

So it took us a while to different

levels of patience as well.

124

It turns out I'm not as patient as

125

Scott: Daniel, are you

126

helping

127

Prince: but in the,

128

Scott: Are you actually

helping teach then, too?

129

Prince: different things.

130

Um, we both have our skills.

131

Yeah, exactly.

132

Uh, yes, for sure.

133

Um, I'm just trying to think

back to like the, the very

134

early days when you're going.

135

So for anybody that's contemplating this,

it's, I think, uh, very important to

136

understand that you've got to do a lot of

de schooling and unprogramming of your.

137

Own.

138

Which we hadn't at the time.

139

Yeah, of your own problems that you've

carried through your own schooling and

140

into your adult life and whatever else.

141

And the expectations of learning because

all we knew was Sit down and learn

142

from a book, you know that that was

what has been drilled into us as well.

143

And at that stage, I was coming

out of an 18 year career.

144

So I've just done the linear thing.

145

I've done to school, got some grades,

gone into an apprenticeship, got better,

146

got moved up, got moved to a different

country, was on the fast track into,

147

you know, Another 10 to 15 years of

just sitting there and grinding out and

148

getting the retirement and whatever else

and all of a sudden that's gone and I'm

149

at home every day and dual parenting

rather than single parenting and then

150

trying to, you know, help the kids with

whatever it is that they're trying to do.

151

Um, my levels of patience fluctuated

very, uh, quite volatile in the

152

early days because I've been used to

being in a business scenario, 10, 11

153

hours a day, five days a week, not

dealing with three year olds that are

154

arguing over whose cup is who when

the cup is the same freaking color.

155

That's all a million times.

156

like, stuff like that I couldn't

handle, like, right, I gotta

157

be out of the room right now.

158

Scott: That's awesome.

159

Yeah.

160

I think, I mean, for me, what

I hear though, you, you're, you

161

took, you made the leap, right?

162

You, you said we're in this together.

163

We're committing to this.

164

You have the courage to, to do that.

165

And then later on, it's not till

later on that you figure out how

166

you do it, the capacity for it, and

let alone to have the confidence.

167

Prince: Yeah, we took books with us

and we tried to pretend, um, that

168

we were, we knew what we were doing.

169

And, um, you know, occasionally would sit

down and say, right, open the books, kids.

170

And then we realized that

that was really hard.

171

And then we would go out and we, we

were traveling at times and then go to

172

a museum or we'd be in a place where

every day was a lesson just traveling.

173

then we realized that they were

actually getting so much from our

174

traveling and our journey and.

175

And hopefully they wouldn't remember it,

which I'm not sure they actually did.

176

But, um, but yeah, so then it, we

tried to use the world as our school,

177

but then occasionally we'd go, But

we have to do some more sit down

178

stuff and try and them down again.

179

And then that would end up in arguments

because, um, they didn't want to do that,

180

or they'd get frustrated really quickly.

181

it's an unnatural way to learn, right?

182

This is the thing.

183

This is called alternative education.

184

What we've come to realize, and many

homeschoolers have come to realize,

185

that alternative education is locking

a kid in a freaking classroom with

186

30 strangers for eight hours a day.

187

That's alternative.

188

There's nothing natural there.

189

Scott: right, I was just

going to ask you about that.

190

I was, I mean, cause at some point the

light bulb goes on and you're like.

191

I know you'd comment in your, in

your, your book about socialization.

192

That was something that our

families had had concern about.

193

Then they, they, as they get

older and you're worried, man,

194

I'm, I'm almost too worried.

195

Not, not too worried.

196

I'm almost worried for the opposite

reason that they're too social.

197

They, they're their confidence now

and handling a lot of different

198

situations with a lot of different

types of adults and, and others.

199

They're very confident in

things that I was like, Hmm.

200

So like what was that like lightbulb

moment as you kind of realized what

201

you just commented on Daniel where

you you realize that actually This

202

is the natural way of learning.

203

This is actually better for my kids.

204

Like what when was that

moment for you guys?

205

Prince: I don't even know if we get,

we've had a light bulb moment, but we do

206

get a lot of compliments from strangers,

um, or people that just meet them about

207

how they can to adults, look people

in the eye, um, engage with people.

208

And that started happening very

early and still happens to this day.

209

And that's nothing to

do with what we've done.

210

I think it's purely by being

around us the whole time.

211

I think that's just, it's like

An osmosis of being around us.

212

They've just learnt how to

engage with people more.

213

I think that's, uh, uh, one of

the big disadvantages of the world

214

that children spend less time

with their parents these days.

215

And I think they don't

learn so much from that.

216

Yeah.

217

And I think, um, perhaps a light bulb

moment for me was meeting other world

218

schoolers and homeschooled kids.

219

Uh, along the way, um, and even

really early, we read that blog post.

220

What was her name?

221

I don't know.

222

Scott: You listed out like a

hundred resources in the book like I

223

was like I was going through it and I'm

like you just had So many to look at

224

I won't even pretend that I know which one

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Prince: Hannah Miller.

226

Hannah Miller wrote this and

she was 13 when she wrote it

227

and it was called, what's hell?

228

Hell world schooling ruined my life.

229

And it was like a brilliant clickbait

title and a satirical piece.

230

But it was very satirical.

231

It was, it was, it meant

actually the opposite.

232

So yeah, I suppose those little

moments when um, one is like, I

233

wish, I hope that by the age of 13

my child can write in this style

234

and be as funny and as open as this.

235

And then, um, you met other kids

around the world and like the slightly

236

older ones, you're like, ah, okay.

237

And like Claire said, they'll

come up, introduce themselves.

238

You could be anywhere, on a beach, in a

park, in a little world school meetup.

239

You'd fall into Facebook groups, so

you'd hit country, who's world schooling

240

here, who's on their travels, and blah,

blah, blah, go and meet in the park.

241

And you'd meet the other kids, so

like, ours were very young still,

242

but you'd meet a 13, 14 year

old and they'd come up to you.

243

shake your hand, introduce

themselves and sit down.

244

Before you know it, you've had a

conversation for 30 or 40 minutes

245

and they've told you where they've

been and this and the other thing.

246

You're like, huh, I'm like just sitting

here, chilling out, chatting to a

247

13 year old when I'm used to that

experience being, uh, hello, how are you?

248

Um, yeah, nice.

249

Um, how's school?

250

Uh, oh yeah, yeah, it's okay.

251

Like.

252

With a normal schooled person and that

could even be your niece or nephew who

253

you're supposed to be close to that

just cannot have that, you know, there's

254

that barrier between you and them

because they're so used to being the

255

only adult that they ever get exposed

to is the authority at the front of the

256

classroom and that's their day to day.

257

So, Those little light bulb moments for

me were like, yeah, we're on the right

258

track with, with these kids because

look at, and this is what we keep

259

coming up against now because Caitlin

is now 18, the twins are coming up 13.

260

Every time we go away to

one of these conferences.

261

They're sitting down for hours talking

to other Bitcoiner will call on me later.

262

He's like, dude, your kids.

263

I've just been talking to them for hours.

264

I'm like, how old are they again?

265

Yeah.

266

Those guys are 12.

267

Like, this is crazy.

268

Scott: Well, a compliment to you guys

then for, uh, for raising them that way.

269

Tali, you were, you were going

to ask something there to that?

270

Tali: Well, I, I just want to kind

of second what you said with that's

271

something that we have noticed in

our homeschooling groups as well.

272

We haven't come across really a whole

lot of world travelers, but just the fact

273

that the kids have daily conversations

with adults, mom and dad, if just mom and

274

dad, that makes such a huge difference.

275

More than the passing, , I'm

going to school now.

276

Bye.

277

I love you.

278

You know, that kind of passing moment.

279

But discussions in the kitchen, , just

over dinner table, that kind of stuff.

280

Because what you guys did is a

huge, huge leap from somebody who

281

is still stuck at a corporate job

and the kids are going to school.

282

So it might seem like it's, it's

like a completely different world.

283

But even if you just take small steps

toward having more conversations

284

with your kids, you are already

moving in that direction.

285

Kids respond really quickly.

286

Something else I wanted to mention was

I wanted to ask you, uh, you mentioned a

287

few minutes back that, , you'd be world

traveling, you'd be visiting museums

288

and visiting these incredible cities.

289

And then you suddenly realized,

Oh, I should probably make sure

290

they can still write maybe too mad.

291

And you're sitting them down.

292

I don't know about your experience,

but for our kids, that was very painful

293

because What I forgot for myself

was I needed transition time between

294

running places and When I'm the one

who's coordinating all of it and I'm

295

not the one doing the learning, I

forget that and then I force the kids

296

without that transition time to sit

and then it becomes so difficult, you

297

know, like the temper tantrums and

the meltdowns and things like that.

298

What was your experience like and

what did you guys do to help the kids

299

transition from going all over the place

and then sitting down quiet at the table?

300

I do believe that that is part of

schooling and that is where self

301

discipline comes into play and it is also

Really a necessary part of schooling.

302

So what did you guys do?

303

Prince: I can completely

relate to what you're saying.

304

It's, it's when it's on your, on your

terms, like you've got to be somewhere.

305

You're doing something.

306

You're trying to rush them

through, sit down and do this.

307

We've got half an hour to get this done.

308

That's when it all.

309

goes down and that's totally a parenting

issue, not the child's issue, but

310

we put that onto them, I suppose.

311

I don't know if we've ever, I agree,

you do have to do sit down things,

312

you do have to do reading and writing

and things every now and then.

313

Some days it works, some days it doesn't.

314

, I don't know if we've ever solved it.

315

I mean, I think as they've got

older, they've been able to do that

316

themselves and do self study a bit more.

317

And since they've been older, we've

been trying to follow, student

318

led learning, which is that

they follow their own interests.

319

So in the idea is that they're interested

in it themselves, so then they have

320

much more motivation to, to sit down.

321

So they'll join the clubs that they

want to join on, , like Cubrio,

322

for example, we use, or Outskool.

323

Uh, so then it's on them to

choose and decide which ones.

324

We obviously help and guide

them and in some cases insist.

325

Like, no, you're definitely doing that

one because there's no discussion there.

326

You have to do it and you have

to try it and we can look at

327

it again in a month's time.

328

And maybe we can swap it

out for something else.

329

So, yeah, there is still that element of.

330

Uh, guidance, I suppose, and then when

they're actually on the clubs on the zoom

331

calls with, uh, with the other kids and,

uh, and the facilitator that all goes

332

fine, they'll sit down and do the work.

333

They're on creative writing clubs

and sit there and tap away and then

334

share their stories at the end of it.

335

Uh, which I don't think we

would get the same result if

336

it was just you and I saying.

337

Definitely not.

338

No.

339

Right.

340

Write us a story and then present it to

us in the lounge in 45 minutes and go.

341

Scott: Well, there's something

that I would like to point out for

342

the listeners too, that I think

we're just all taking for granted.

343

You're, the ability to learn later,

like your own, as you're, as an adult,

344

you're still going to be learning things.

345

So there's something about that

self directed, that, that's

346

a skill by it, by itself.

347

But the thing that's on my mind as

you guys are talking is I'm just

348

imagining you're traveling the world.

349

You're having Multiple meals

with your kids during the day.

350

Maybe sometimes you, you break up

and, and you're not, and you think

351

about how many kids these days are

either in single family households,

352

or even if both, there's a mom and

dad there, the, the hours you have

353

to put into like the rat race, right?

354

Or maybe you're both working and now

you're just kind of saying, okay, you're,

355

your child's now gonna spend most of

their waking hours with other people.

356

You can't, you can learn

a subject later on.

357

You can go self teach, whatever

it is, later on, almost anything.

358

You can't as easily go back and try to

build a relationship with your, with your

359

kids and set an example of how parents

can work together through difficult times.

360

Because I'm sure like, it's

not all like, you know, flowers

361

and candy and whatever else.

362

Like there's, there's, there's

tough times in there and they see

363

mom and dad working through that.

364

That's a huge, huge

thing to teach your kids.

365

Yeah.

366

And you can't easily go

back and learn that later.

367

So that's what's on my mind as

we're having this discussion, is we

368

can get into the, these technical

things on, is it Montessori?

369

Is it Udemy?

370

Is it whatever?

371

But I mean, think about what the

kids are getting when you, I mean,

372

to me, this is the heart of, of the

self custody of education, right?

373

You are, you're, you're teaching so

much more in terms of life skills

374

there and values that is just.

375

You can't even put a price tag

on, on, on, on some of those.

376

Prince: I mean, we sit down to eat.

377

together pretty much every, well, at least

twice a day, sit down around a table.

378

And you can imagine some of the

conversations there, but you know,

379

they're proper discussions sometimes

around Bitcoin, not always, but they're

380

proper discussions and with their points

of views and whether we think this is

381

right to have this point of view or not.

382

And, um, I think that again goes back

to their, you know, it gets discussed

383

whether it's right or wrong, the

conversation, but, uh, it's, um, it's,

384

I suppose like a mini debate sometimes,

but, uh, I think it's a skill as well.

385

Yeah.

386

And then with, with, to your point

as well, Scott, when we were doing

387

the long term traveling with them.

388

Uh, yeah, they were part of it.

389

They were part, whether they realized it

or not, they were part of every decision.

390

They were part of every up and part

of every down and they experienced.

391

All of the good stuff and all of

the bad stuff together as a unit.

392

Like when we were in Thailand and

Samuel split his head open, like

393

they saw exactly like mom and dad

go straight into panic mode, alert

394

mode, get this shit sorted out mode.

395

And that was a learning

experience, all of it.

396

And all of the emotions that came

with that and the sadness and

397

then the relief that he was okay.

398

And it was just some stitches and

he was back again in an hour or two.

399

Um, you know, all look just

those kinds of situations.

400

Huge amounts of learning

is going on there.

401

Scott: Mm hmm.

402

Yeah, absolutely.

403

I love it.

404

Tali: That was my favorite part

of homeschooling was the fact that

405

our kids know each other very well

They know each other's friends.

406

They know each other's teachers And what

like you said when we come to the table

407

and They're debating certain points

of view or whatever it, they're still

408

together and they can disagree, you know,

when, as they get older, because our, our

409

girls are a little bit older than yours.

410

Um, when they disagree, they

really disagree, but we're still.

411

Able to talk about it and we can

always go back to the reference of

412

remember that time when this teacher

did this and that kind of stuff I

413

want to throw a question at you guys.

414

I don't know if you've noticed this.

415

I'm sure you have, but

I'm going to throw it out.

416

So going back to what you said

before about when you decided to do

417

Um, homeschooling and your family

out of their concern and love were

418

afraid that, um, you were going to

ruin your kids because we had that.

419

We had that on both sides.

420

And what I am noticing now

with our kids being older.

421

And they're going outside, obviously,

our family circle, our two boys are

422

working, our girls are at school.

423

What they're noticing now is that the

way they think is so, so different

424

from their peers, that it's very,

very difficult for them to connect

425

with peers that are the same age.

426

Because they're still, right now,

scrolling on Instagram and talking about

427

stuff that are somewhat unimportant.

428

, they're stuck in the pop

culture, whereas our kids would.

429

Look beyond that just be just because

of the type of conversation that we have

430

our home So in that way they have been

frustrated that they they are having

431

trouble Connecting with the general

peers outside the homeschooling circle.

432

Are you guys noticing the same

thing for you guys for your kids?

433

Prince: Yeah, well, we were

in another city the other day

434

and, well, a few months ago.

435

a busload of school kids obviously on a

on an excursion or going out for the day.

436

Which, uh, the kids obviously in the

bus were looking at our kids that were

437

just free out and about in the city.

438

And they're all like pulling funny faces

out the bus window and, you know, sticking

439

the middle finger up and things like

that, our kids and things, because they

440

think that they're cool and, and, um.

441

And then our kids turned around

to each other and went, kids that

442

go to school are just so weird.

443

Scott: Yeah.

444

Can I, can I add this?

445

I just, um, I, there's so many

questions I have for you guys.

446

You clear, you mentioned Bitcoin

earlier and I'm curious, so I'm

447

assuming you're a Bitcoiner.

448

Is that, is that true?

449

Are

450

Prince: Yeah, I had the same belief, not

nearly as deep in as Dan, but yes, I agree

451

with the concept and the ideas behind it.

452

Scott: Okay.

453

So, so Daniel was first and

then you, you were, brought

454

along into the, the rabbit hole.

455

So, and then how about the kids are

the, were the kids on the spectrum?

456

Because I, where I'm going with that

is, , I hear Talia and I are, we're, we're

457

throwing our heart and souls into this.

458

We, we believe in this, strongly

believe in this, and, and that's a

459

whole other, I mean, this is where

Big Winter spent hours, right?

460

But our kids look at us and they say,

okay, dad, why do you have laser eyes?

461

You know, you're, you're going to your

little cult and you know, they, and they,

462

they make all the comparisons, right?

463

You're, I mean, just so many comparisons.

464

So I'm curious from, from a schooling

standpoint, but also from a Bitcoin

465

standpoint, where, where are you

guys as a family and how are you

466

guys handling the subject of money?

467

And freedom and the, the things Daniel,

that you would talk for hours on your

468

podcast about how do you, how do you

handle those in the, in the house?

469

Prince: Well, it gets

talked about all the time.

470

So, um, they, they

certainly know about it.

471

Um, because, because, because

Bitcoin fixes everything.

472

Yeah.

473

That, that, that sentence comes up a lot.

474

Lots of debates about that in the kitchen.

475

Chicken in the fridge.

476

Oh, Bitcoin fixes this.

477

Um, but, um, yeah, uh,

all of them understand.

478

Again, the concept of it, how it works,

we don't know how deeply, they don't

479

know the technicalities of it, but they

understand deeply and much more than

480

probably another kid, even our 18 year

olds age, they understand inflation and

481

why the world is in such a state now.

482

They understand it's not

just because the pandemic.

483

Um, and, um, they, they understand

that it's printing money that, uh, or

484

fiat money, uh, uh, they've read a few

books that are more to their level.

485

Played Hoddle Up.

486

Played Hoddle

487

Scott: Oh, nice.

488

Nice.

489

Yeah, that's

490

right.

491

I forgot about

492

Prince: read that.

493

Yeah.

494

Um, uh, our older daughter, she went to

school, um, and has much more of, um.

495

I'd say probably different views

to the rest of us a bit more

496

so she has more of a outsidely.

497

Well, yeah, she's but she still

understands Bitcoin and still

498

comes back to it quite often

talks to her friends about it.

499

It's interesting to see how they're going.

500

They're going to be pulled

in different directions.

501

And this is, as we know, what

Bitcoin does to you, right?

502

It's going to find that thing within

you that resonates with you the most.

503

And then you're going to apply your

time and effort to that specific.

504

So for you guys, it's

Bitcoin and homeschooling.

505

You know, I absolutely 100

percent agree with you.

506

If you separate education

from state, you will separate.

507

Money from state and vice versa.

508

And as you said, Scott, Bitcoin is a

homeschoolers that just don't know it yet.

509

And homeschoolers are Bitcoiners

that just don't know it.

510

That's, that's just 100 percent true.

511

But what's going to bring them in?

512

You know, what will it be?

513

And what will it be for our kids?

514

And having the kids with us at, uh, at

some of the conferences, getting them

515

exposed to The, the talks, the panels,

the, um, the booths, the work that's been

516

going on, Caitlin currently, she's 18.

517

She's just had a chat with Alex Gladstein

and CK from Human Rights Foundation.

518

So she's looking into the, can I

do some kind of internship because

519

it's international relations.

520

That's pulling her into this thing.

521

So right, where, where can, who

in my network do I need to put in

522

the way of you on your journey?

523

And, and Sophia, she met Rachel

actually in Germany, uh, just four or

524

five weeks ago at, um, at an event.

525

And, uh, Rachel's put him on this

event in January and Rachel invited

526

Sophia to come and speak on a panel

about what's it like to be a teenage.

527

Surrounded by Bitcoin.

528

Surrounded by Bitcoin stuff.

529

How's it shaping your mind?

530

So, goodness knows where she's

going to get pulled into.

531

Claire's going to start

resonating with um, you know,

532

is it the human rights aspect?

533

Is it getting more For me,

that's what interests me more.

534

The humanitarian side of it all.

535

But then someone like My son,

he just loves the gaming.

536

He's like, what?

537

You can win sats playing

Pac Man and stuff?

538

Okay, let's get into that.

539

Lauren does the show with me.

540

So she's interviewed, goodness

knows how many people.

541

She just likes talking to people.

542

Yeah, she loves the conversation of it.

543

And just like sits there and

gets truth bombed every episode.

544

She's like, oh.

545

So one day, I guarantee you one day

she'll be 15 or 16 and she'll just

546

start coming out with all of this stuff.

547

But where's it going to take her?

548

You know, it's going

to be amazing to watch.

549

Scott: Well, I mean, good for you guys.

550

I mean, this is something

that's on our mind too.

551

We've cleared it so, you know, so Tali

and I earlier this year went to a couple

552

of homeschooling conferences and tried to

pitch Bitcoin to homeschoolers and it was

553

an uphill to say it nicely and uphill.

554

Time, like it was, it was, it was

a very frustrating experience.

555

So I think we'll get there eventually.

556

And, and it's, and, and the reason I asked

that question is we're, we're trying to

557

not only, I mean, we want our own family.

558

We want our own kids to understand this

and say, look, we have this insight.

559

We want to share this with you.

560

You guys can, you have the benefit of,

you have the whole life in front of you.

561

We're, we're learning this much later.

562

And even within our own family,

we're, we're finding that it's not.

563

Uh, it's not that simple and it's

certainly not one conversation.

564

You know, it's not one

game, one book, one podcast.

565

It's, it's this consistent thing.

566

And the number of times I mentioned

low time preference or fiat money or

567

something else like that, the kids just

roll their eyes and they're like, okay,

568

dad, we don't need another lecture.

569

But I'm thinking like these

are like understanding money,

570

the, the time preference thing.

571

I mean, you guys talked

about, um, was it meditation?

572

I think lowering your stress.

573

You guys, you actually talked about that.

574

Those are, those concepts of taking

care of your body for the long

575

term and, and doing those things,

they're, they're all tied together.

576

All these concepts, like they build on

each other and it's like, well guys, this

577

can really, really impact you for the

better, your success, your happiness.

578

And sometimes they just,

they're not ready to hear it.

579

At least that's my, my take on it is

like, why, why can't I get you guys to?

580

See all the things that I'm seeing

and I'm trying to, I'm, I'm trying

581

to be more understanding of what's

their point of view and how do

582

we reach, how do we reach them?

583

I mean, Tali's teaching me that

I, that I don't communicate well

584

with women evidently because

we speak like men on podcasts.

585

I'm like, okay.

586

So we had, um, so she's exploring that

and she's, she's, she's growing that, but

587

that's the reason I ask is because you're,

you're teaching your kids your values.

588

You're teaching them the things from.

589

A normal traditional school, like a

traditional curriculum, but then there's

590

this whole suite of new things that we're

into with Bitcoin with what is money

591

Austrian economics, lower time preference.

592

I mean, if you want to get into

the humanitarian rights and things

593

like that, I mean, there's so much

to get into there than the diet and

594

what we're being told with the diet.

595

Well, I want our kids to how do you teach

your kids what's right to eat and not eat?

596

You want to talk about influences like

we teach our kids this and then our

597

sons will go out and they'll come back

with McDonald's bags and pizza bags

598

and or boxes or whatever and we're

like, wait a minute, like, didn't

599

we like, what are you doing anyway?

600

Tali: I'm gonna add my two cents in here.

601

I think one of the biggest rewards that

we have as homeschoolers is we teach

602

kids to think critically and they're

not just being spoon fed like they're,

603

sitting in rows and like cattle,

just being, being spoon fed stuff.

604

And so we teach them to think critically

and we, because we're new to the

605

homeschooling and that's, sorry, because

we're new to the Bitcoin space and our

606

kids were brought up in the traditional

way as Daniel, you were mentioning

607

before, we only told them what we knew

and what we knew was the traditional

608

stuff like the traditional finance.

609

And, you know, you go, you get

good, get good grades, you get a

610

good education, you get a good job,

you climb the corporate ladder.

611

That's what we knew.

612

Before we enter the Bitcoin space, we

didn't question our understanding of the

613

how, how the world worked and how money

worked, because we thought we knew it.

614

The correct way.

615

That was the way we train up our kids.

616

And so suddenly we come across this

Bitcoin thing and our mind is blown.

617

But our kids didn't have that need yet.

618

You know, we found Bitcoin

out of our need for it.

619

I think everybody has to come to

Bitcoin with some type of need.

620

And it could be humanitarian.

621

It could be something else.

622

But everybody had a need and

Bitcoin became the solution.

623

And so our kids, they haven't

come across that need yet.

624

And so they see us suddenly change.

625

And Our 16 year old, his favorite,

um, retort to me or us telling

626

him about Bitcoin is, Mom,

627

Scott: well

628

Tali: mostly mom because he was

always working, Mom, you taught me

629

to not accept things that face value.

630

You taught me to question.

631

And I'm like, you're not supposed

to question me, you're supposed

632

to question other people.

633

But, but, you know, I, I feel like we have

to give them room are because they're,

634

they're really young adults and we've

brought them up to be critical thinkers.

635

And eventually they will,

their paths will lead there.

636

But if we're shoving it in their

face all the time, it's just like

637

any other family and members or

friends that we want to say, Hey,

638

you're Can I please tell you about

this incredible thing called Bitcoin?

639

They'll be like,

640

Scott: You're

641

Tali: crazy and weird.

642

You know, our kids are

looking at us the same way.

643

Prince: totally agree.

644

The critical thinking I think is

the most important thing and being

645

able to make their own decisions,

look into things themselves.

646

not take everything at face value.

647

But, um, yeah, we get, we totally

get the eye rolls all the time.

648

I like, oh, that's talking Bitcoin again.

649

But it's interesting when you

sometimes hear your children talking

650

to kids their own age that have

nothing to do with Bitcoin, and

651

then trying to explain it to them.

652

And you like why it's important

and, and all these things.

653

They're like, huh, They, they did listen.

654

They do get it.

655

And, uh, I suppose, like you

say, they have to make, they

656

have to make their own decisions.

657

And, you know, I don't know

how many times in my life, my

658

opinions and things have changed.

659

And I've completely pivoted on

some things that I thought were.

660

I was really set on, um, before, but,

um, I suppose, uh, that's one of our

661

biggest goals is to make sure they're

always learning always that, you know,

662

you don't stop learning at 18 or in the

early 20s when you finish university,

663

because we're still learning now,

but we could really, when we were

664

our kids at school could really see.

665

The love of learning disappearing, like

they just were so bored by, yeah, and I

666

would say as well, it's a classic cliche,

uh, action speak louder than words.

667

And in 18 months, when you guys are

still doing this podcast, and you've.

668

Still you're still designing games.

669

I mean the thing is you always

still you've got that game, right?

670

That's there that's out There it's

going to keep selling people are

671

going to carry on asking, you know How

to play it and whatever else you're

672

going to keep going to conferences.

673

You're not going to stop what you're

doing So in 18 months, we're the critical

674

mind these kids that you've brought

up that we've brought up and hopefully

675

other people around Around the world

that are suffering these same problems

676

18 months goes by You haven't changed,

your conviction is even stronger, your

677

message is clearer, you've sharpened

your tools with delivering the messages.

678

Scott can speak to women and you

know, it's going to be amazing.

679

Mmm.

680

Scott: Do you, um, have you talked

to your kids about university?

681

Are they considering not going?

682

Prince: No, this is where, like, giving

them free minds and things is the, uh,

683

well, our oldest is determined to go.

684

And, you know, she, she's not picking

the cheaper European universities.

685

She's trying to pick a, I mean,

it's not the U S which is picking

686

the UK, which isn't cheap.

687

Um, Sophia, um, doesn't know at

all what she wants to do, but

688

she still feels the pressure, I

suppose, because the age she is.

689

And all the other kids are looking

or working towards university.

690

So the word comes up quite a lot from her.

691

But she is much more open to learning a

vocation rather than going to university.

692

Yeah,

693

Scott: be part of the

694

this might be the unprogramming

Daniel, you're referring to because

695

Tali and I met in grad school, right?

696

And then our, both of our sons, like,

so both of our girls say, okay, we're

697

going to go to school and we're like,

yeah, we'll support you and all that.

698

But both of our boys are like,

we don't really want to do that.

699

And here, and with all the things that

we've learned over the last couple

700

of years of studying Bitcoin, like

we were like, yeah, you know, this is

701

not, we, we can't even, we can't say,

here's why you really should do this.

702

You know, you should spend a lot of money

to go be indoctrinated and do whatever.

703

And, and now it's kind of like

unprogrammed in our part and.

704

Now we're back to our families because

now we're, you know, we're 20 some years

705

into this thing and we're like, what

are your, what are your kids doing?

706

Well, the, the boys have

decided to drop out.

707

And they're looking at our families

are looking at us like, well,

708

what are you gonna do about that?

709

Like, well, we, we support

them a hundred percent.

710

Um, It's been, it's been a, it's a, it's

kind of our, one of our current learnings

711

that Tali and I are going through is,

is how to have this conversation with

712

what do you think of formal university

schooling after all that we've

713

learned through the Bitcoin and what's

going on with, with fiat education.

714

So that's the reason I asked, um, looked

like I may have hit a sore spot for you.

715

I was like, Oh,

716

Prince: Yeah.

717

No.

718

Well, for me it is, because I, I, I

don't want them to, to, to go and be

719

indoctrinated and be forced into debt.

720

It makes no sense.

721

Yeah.

722

For me it's the unnecessary debt.

723

I don't, I don't know.

724

I think they're open minded enough

to, to see for themselves when

725

they're being indoctrinated hopefully.

726

But it's.

727

It's the unnecessary debt.

728

And I just hope, it's that, it's

that framing as well, Scott, you

729

know, that that is a sign of that,

that word, that term dropout.

730

Dropped out.

731

It should be opted out.

732

No, they are opting out of that because

it is a choice and is empowering.

733

But somehow it's been turned upside

down to make you look weak and an

734

undesirable human being because

you dropped out of college or you

735

dropped out of school or whatever.

736

So what we try and, uh, well, I, I

certainly hope many people around the

737

world understand you have a choice.

738

You can't opt out and that just

reframing that language empowers you.

739

And, um, I hope that Caitlin, it looks

as though she, she will go to college.

740

But if she gets the opportunity to intern

at incredible organizations before she

741

goes and being surrounded by incredible,

inspiring people, then when they get

742

there, like you've experienced, uh, and

other homeschoolers have experienced,

743

they get there and they look around at

their classmates and they're like, Really?

744

We're talking about the

current thing all the time?

745

Tali: That's it.

746

That's exactly what our

girls are telling us.

747

And, um, it's kind of like that,

uh, you know, I don't know what

748

your faith background is, but a

lot of Christian parents are very,

749

very afraid of letting their kids

go out and be ruined by the world.

750

And we, I actually told the kids when

they were in high school, when you

751

graduate, you're going overseas because

you need to see how big the world is.

752

Scott: And

753

Tali: My, my peers, my, the moms

were like, Oh my God, what are

754

they going to be exposed to?

755

I'm like, whatever it is, they

have to choose their own belief.

756

They grew up under our belief

system, but they need to choose.

757

And so the, my, our kids went out

and came back with stronger faith

758

because they didn't like what they saw.

759

And the same thing is happening at the

universities that our girls are attending.

760

And actually all four of our

kids went to school and to.

761

Opt it out afterwards.

762

But now they know where they stand.

763

So it's okay.

764

Even if like your girls, if they go to

college and they look around and go,

765

this is it, this is all there is to it.

766

And then opt out.

767

Now their conviction is even stronger.

768

So I actually I'm in favor of letting

them go out there and make their mistakes.

769

Prince: Yeah, me too.

770

I

771

Tali: Yeah.

772

Prince: think it's how you

learn as well, yourself.

773

If they get there and think,

right, this isn't for me, that's

774

for them to have made that choice.

775

But um, and our oldest at

the moment she's in Thailand.

776

Yeah.

777

Traveling with her friends.

778

There's three of them.

779

They've gone out there, they've

been gone for a month already.

780

And then they'll be gone

at least until March.

781

Uh, in, in Thailand and Southeast Asia.

782

Going out and seeing the

world and making mistakes.

783

We've already missed one flight.

784

We already missed a flight.

785

Already made a reservation

for the wrong like day.

786

Yeah.

787

Already over time zone.

788

Already screwed the time zone

up and overpaid for an Airbnb.

789

Yes.

790

Scott: If that's how you

learn though, you're right.

791

I mean now You you know sitting down

and telling someone how time zones

792

work is not the same as actually

messing up And and having to pay

793

Um, with the frustration, the

794

Prince: Having to pay twice

795

Scott: pay twice.

796

I mean, that's, that's

a real education there.

797

Um, missing a

798

Prince: when money, when money's tight

799

Scott: yeah.

800

So, um, so one of the things that was

on my mind, um, going back a little

801

bit to the, the people who are just

starting thinking of like some of the

802

folks who'd be listening to this, the,

they might look at that and they say,

803

okay, well, the world changed though,

because you guys started world schooling.

804

Before COVID

805

Prince: hmm.

806

Mm hmm.

807

Scott: in some countries like

Germany, you can't homeschool, right?

808

It's not even an option in the U

S the, the impact of COVID really

809

opened a lot of eyes for parents

and it actually helped fuel.

810

The homeschooling movement, and there were

a lot of people brought in because they're

811

like, what, like they, they realized

like it was, they weren't getting what

812

they, they thought they were getting,

uh, or they were getting extra things

813

that they didn't want, uh, in there.

814

So things, for example, that might change

for, um, uh, a young family would be,

815

you guys did a lot of home swapping.

816

There are a lot of young couples now that

might be forced to rent just because the,

817

where we are in the, in the fiat cycle.

818

So what I'm saying with that is some

things have changed and I'm just

819

curious, like if you're, for the people

listening now, if you were sitting down

820

with one of those young couples, what

would have, what would you say to them?

821

Would anything change from what you,

what you captured in your, in your book?

822

Because I know you guys put a

lot of thought into that, but the

823

world's changed quite a bit in

the last five, seven years, right?

824

So I just want to just ask you

to reflect a little bit on that.

825

Is there anything that

you would, um, You say

826

Prince: Well, when we were, when we were

traveling, we did decide at one stage

827

to stop in France because we wanted our

children to learn a second language.

828

So they did go to school for a little

while to, to, to use the language and

829

during COVID we decided to take them

out of school, which, like you said,

830

so many people decided to take the

children out of school in France too.

831

They saw, um, the state education wasn't

quite what they wanted anymore, but

832

since then France has changed the laws.

833

Uh, well, interestingly enough, late

834

uh, they decided to change the

homeschooling laws, so it's, it's

835

really hard to homeschool in France now.

836

And I'm seeing so, so many European

countries, especially Western

837

European countries, are, um,

making it harder for the parents.

838

The, the hoops you have to jump

through makes it really, really hard.

839

The paperwork.

840

the assessments for the children.

841

And for example, in France, when you

homeschool, you have to teach the state

842

education to your children, which for me,

that's not the point of homeschooling.

843

So, um, so if For me, it's a lot easier

to drop my children at school at eight

844

o'clock in the morning and pick them up

at four o'clock in the afternoon than

845

to have them at home if I was going to

have them learn the state education.

846

So why would I teach them

that at home all day?

847

Um, so, uh, yeah, it, I, it, it's,

it's much more difficult, I'd say now

848

you've really got to, and, um, yeah,

as, as a parent, I'd say that to another

849

homeschooling parent is that I constantly

have doubts in what I'm doing all the time

850

and reassess things and I, but I think

I would do that if they were at school.

851

You know, if, if they're at

school, I'd always be thinking,

852

am I doing the right thing?

853

Are they in the right school?

854

Is everything working, but we always

doing that, uh, the kids is this working.

855

And, you know, I suppose it's about

being adaptable to everything and the

856

children, because they're also different.

857

And

858

Scott: these the fight you stage is

scary with the you know I did I did

859

not realize that the to the extent

that you're describing Like how

860

much the the they're going that way.

861

Sorry, Daniel.

862

I didn't

863

Prince: there's a lot of regular,

lot of regulatory creep, um, across

864

all of, uh, of all of Europe, uh,

especially in, um, even the UK that,

865

you know, it's, it's getting tighter.

866

Yeah.

867

It's probably one of the

freer places in Europe.

868

So we were talking to the founder of a

Sudbury Valley school in, in Southeast.

869

England in Kent, and she was explaining

how the regulatory creep is creeping

870

up on them to the point where now they

can only accept in quote students to

871

come to the, and Sudbury Valley is a

democratic style, uh, school styled after

872

the Sudbury Valley School in, in the us.

873

Uh, and uh, she said, yeah, we can

only have students come in between

874

Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

875

Uh, between 9.

876

30 and 3.

877

30, because if we have any more minutes

than that, then we are operating as a

878

school, in air quotes, and we come up

under a completely different regulation.

879

More of an association, I suppose.

880

Yeah, so when you look at Montessori

schools, or Waldorf Steiner schools, or

881

any of these other kind of alternative,

again in air quotes, schools, Uh,

882

if they're working five days a week,

they're just a quasi state school

883

with a kind of They are in France.

884

Yeah.

885

In fact, anything else just

recently closed down, I didn't

886

realize, but one by one.

887

Mm hmm.

888

And I think it's because they're not

doing the state So they used to be kind of

889

like forest schools and things here, but

they've just been regulated out of town.

890

Scott: wow.

891

Prince: if you are, if you're welcoming

kids into, um, an institution five

892

days a week, then therefore you need

to have, it's like banking, you know,

893

you can only bank if you've got a

license from the federal reserve or

894

from the bank of England or whatever,

you can only school if you've got a

895

license from the ministry of education.

896

And if you have that license, then there

are certain things that you need to.

897

Uh, adhere to and certain requirements

and regulations and so if you really

898

want to be a democratic school, you're

like, no, we're not doing any of that.

899

This is the whole point of this school.

900

Then they start crimping the amount of

time you can actually offer to the kids.

901

So this is going on

902

Scott: Wow.

903

So other countries that are going

the other way other countries

904

that are Kind of a bastion for

905

Prince: up.

906

None I've seen.

907

I think Eastern Europe might be easier.

908

I don't know for sure.

909

I know there's a lot of them.

910

Homeschoolers more in, um,

Czech Republic and, um, maybe

911

Bulgaria and places like that.

912

But yeah, those countries, I

suppose, where they, yeah, they.

913

Uh, I, I'm not sure it's a hundred

percent, but I think it's pretty much.

914

You can fly under the

radar in those countries.

915

But it's prohibited in places like

Sweden or Scandinavia, Netherlands,

916

Germany, Very difficult in

France, very difficult in Spain,

917

Scott: So maybe if you, someone wanted to

world school today, maybe they should be

918

looking at Asia or some somewhere else.

919

Prince: Well in Asia,

920

Tali: I interviewed a homeschooler in

a Bitcoin homeschooler in Portugal,

921

and she said that she pulled her

oldest one out during COVID, and she

922

had a lot of trouble with paperwork.

923

But then second one, because he never

went into the system, there's no problem.

924

So if you move to Portugal, and you

don't enter the system at all, it's

925

actually quite easy, as far as I

926

Prince: Yeah, you gotta be,

you gotta be flying very low.

927

It's about not being a

resident in some countries.

928

Like for, France is different.

929

If you're, even if you're not a resident.

930

They say you have right to free

education, so you should be at school.

931

Um, but places like Portugal and

Spain, I think if you've not,

932

Scott: hmm.

933

Mm

934

Prince: registered.

935

Well, it's getting into health

systems and things like that as well.

936

You know, like as soon as you're in

that, that flags another bureau and

937

that flags this and that flags that.

938

That's where they make it difficult.

939

If you look, you know,

Europe's quite socialist.

940

If you wanted any child benefits or

anything like that, you don't get it if

941

you don't send your children to school.

942

Um, things like that.

943

But to go back to your, your original

question, Scott, about, um, if

944

people are thinking about doing world

schooling, what's changed and whatever,

945

uh, I would say, yeah, I mean, by

and large, it's still the same.

946

In fact, I would say it could even

be easier in finding accommodation

947

now because things such as.

948

Couch surfing and I mean, Airbnb

has bloomed in the 10 years

949

since we've been doing it.

950

We use home exchange and yeah, if

you do not have your own property

951

to exchange, then of course,

that's a problem, but people do

952

exchange their rented apartments.

953

That's permission from them.

954

Yeah, it's up to them to.

955

Yeah.

956

And I suppose it's no different

to family sitting is a big, big

957

thing looking after people's pets

and pet sitting, house sitting.

958

Uh, working on farms and that there's

ways you can do it, uh, Woofing, that's

959

called, or there's HelpX as well.

960

Uh, there are ways that you can

do it as a family, no doubt.

961

Uh, there's probably less available, uh,

cheap airlines around the world these

962

days because they've been squeezed.

963

So maybe that price has gone up a little

bit, but, uh, I would say it'd still

964

be cheaper than most people would ever.

965

They don't believe you when you

tell them traveling long term is a

966

cheaper way to live than just sitting

steady and still in one place.

967

Uh, and any world schooler

will tell you that.

968

It does sound very privileged, doesn't it?

969

Yeah, it does.

970

But, you know, once you, once you go

and you start moving and you start

971

figuring things out and, uh, falling

into, uh, your rhythm, um, you, you

972

learn all the hacks and the tricks and

the tools and what works best for you.

973

Uh, it's still very doable and, uh,

honestly, I think if somebody was thinking

974

about doing it, do a six weeker or

something, you know, just, just try six

975

weeks somewhere, try and get a home swap

set up or a couple of home swaps set up

976

or a house sit, whatever it is, and just

go for it and see what it's like and then

977

come back and like, well, did that work?

978

Did we enjoy it?

979

We're all still breathing, right?

980

And can we do this for

six months next time?

981

Because the, the upside is so huge

and When you were asking us, you know,

982

again, about what were family and friends

thinking on your original decision, and

983

it feels to me as though still to this

day, we're judged on the original decision

984

rather than the results and the kids,

which are unquestionable when you sit down

985

and actually talk to them and see them and

just wonder at the different Thank you.

986

experiences that they've had,

now they're bilingual, like that

987

wouldn't have happened if they'd

sat in a classroom for, you know,

988

goodness knows how many times a day.

989

When our kids arrived in France, they

started learning Spanish at school at the

990

same time as they were learning French,

which they hadn't, um, learned before.

991

So, um, and our daughter said to us the

other day, she's been learning Spanish

992

for six years and French for six years,

but she's completely bilingual in French.

993

And she learned Spanish at school

through a classroom and she's

994

like, I can't speak Spanish.

995

I've learned it for seven years,

but, um, yeah, so it just shows you

996

the difference between immersion.

997

And classroom learning.

998

Scott: Yeah.

999

A hundred percent.

00:56:02,544 --> 00:56:03,514

That's a great example.

00:56:03,834 --> 00:56:04,084

Yeah.

00:56:04,084 --> 00:56:07,844

I know everything you're saying by

both of you that it's worth it, right?

00:56:07,844 --> 00:56:12,574

There's, there's a lot of, this is going

to take some work and, but it's worth it.

00:56:13,044 --> 00:56:17,274

The relationship with your kids, what the

experiences that they're going to develop

00:56:17,294 --> 00:56:21,524

their frameworks for life, the experiences

that are just going to help shape them,

00:56:21,534 --> 00:56:26,034

that it's, it's worth it fighting the

bureaucracy and the paperwork and.

00:56:26,644 --> 00:56:28,804

Um, whatever else that you

have to, you have to deal

00:56:28,879 --> 00:56:29,209

Prince: Yep.

00:56:29,309 --> 00:56:30,519

It's exactly what you said earlier.

00:56:30,739 --> 00:56:33,439

You've got this one

limited time with them.

00:56:33,709 --> 00:56:38,219

They're only young for so long,

and then they'll have their own

00:56:38,779 --> 00:56:40,379

lives and their own projects.

00:56:40,409 --> 00:56:43,719

And, and obviously

they'll go and come back.

00:56:43,729 --> 00:56:48,564

Well, they're still family, but

Um, it's, it's such a limited

00:56:48,564 --> 00:56:50,014

time, there's only this one time

00:56:52,344 --> 00:56:52,634

Scott: right,

00:56:52,844 --> 00:56:53,324

Prince: it work.

00:56:54,164 --> 00:56:58,334

Tali: I just have one quick one more

question, which is for your older kids.

00:56:58,374 --> 00:57:01,524

Do they talk about whether or not

they're also looking to homeschool?

00:57:02,739 --> 00:57:04,059

When they have their own children.

00:57:05,355 --> 00:57:06,425

Prince: Yeah, good question.

00:57:07,115 --> 00:57:08,755

Uh, I don't know.

00:57:08,845 --> 00:57:09,945

No, I don't know.

00:57:09,945 --> 00:57:12,245

I don't know what they would do.

00:57:14,375 --> 00:57:14,745

Yeah, I don't know.

00:57:15,295 --> 00:57:15,815

I don't know.

00:57:16,145 --> 00:57:19,475

Um, thankfully, not had that one yet.

00:57:19,635 --> 00:57:21,095

Uh, maybe that one's coming.

00:57:21,095 --> 00:57:24,065

Harold, have they spoken

to you about that?

00:57:24,619 --> 00:57:27,479

Tali: Yes, uh, we actually

have talked a lot about that.

00:57:27,479 --> 00:57:32,059

We have a 20 year old son who is

engaged to another homeschooler.

00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:34,709

They kind of grew up together

in the homeschooling program.

00:57:34,759 --> 00:57:37,099

And both of them are already talking.

00:57:37,234 --> 00:57:40,544

extensively about how they want

to raise their children and

00:57:40,664 --> 00:57:41,884

definitely want to homeschool.

00:57:42,124 --> 00:57:45,274

But her mom's approach to homeschooling

was so different from mine.

00:57:45,294 --> 00:57:48,424

And so he said that they want to

take a little bit from her side and a

00:57:48,424 --> 00:57:50,584

little bit from his side, combine them.

00:57:50,584 --> 00:57:54,094

So he, uh, so Nolan has

talked extensively about that.

00:57:54,104 --> 00:57:56,724

My girls have said, well,

actually, Brianna has said that

00:57:56,824 --> 00:57:58,504

she definitely wants to homeschool.

00:57:58,504 --> 00:57:59,854

And Alaya says she's not sure.

00:57:59,854 --> 00:58:01,784

It depends on her circumstance.

00:58:02,389 --> 00:58:05,239

And Caden's 16, so he's

not thinking that far yet.

00:58:07,110 --> 00:58:08,850

Prince: Oh, that's,

that's, that's interesting.

00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,150

And, and congrats, uh, on the look.

00:58:12,210 --> 00:58:13,950

I hope, I'm sure you're

looking forward to the big day.

00:58:14,439 --> 00:58:14,999

Scott: It's going to be,

00:58:15,379 --> 00:58:18,999

Tali: It's a little strange, you know, I

wasn't expecting it to happen this soon.

00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:20,350

Prince: Yeah.

00:58:20,729 --> 00:58:22,199

Tali: He's a little on the young side.

00:58:22,404 --> 00:58:24,674

Scott: He's young, but he

thinks he thinks longterm.

00:58:25,194 --> 00:58:29,834

So I, I wasn't mature enough at 20

to make a life decision like that.

00:58:30,404 --> 00:58:33,514

I just wasn't ready, but

they're very, very thoughtful.

00:58:33,794 --> 00:58:37,174

So they're very, they're, they're very

thoughtful about what they're trying

00:58:37,174 --> 00:58:40,684

to plan for the future and good autumn.

00:58:41,034 --> 00:58:44,024

There, just because it was a different

timing than me, I'll have to, I'll

00:58:44,024 --> 00:58:47,334

just have to learn and I can't

force other people into my path.

00:58:47,334 --> 00:58:51,714

So, um, but it's, yeah, you, I

think, I think as a parent, you're,

00:58:52,364 --> 00:58:54,954

you're like learning more than

the kids are from the experience.

00:58:55,754 --> 00:58:59,744

And I know, I feel like that for

me, it's been a personal journey

00:58:59,744 --> 00:59:00,964

and this is just the next step.

00:59:02,114 --> 00:59:04,242

So, Mm

00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:08,030

Prince: if there's gonna be more and

more homeschooled kids in the next 10 to

00:59:08,035 --> 00:59:10,280

15 years because it changes everything.

00:59:10,285 --> 00:59:15,190

It changes the way people look,

how they, uh, look at life, how

00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:17,710

they act, how they interact.

00:59:18,060 --> 00:59:18,570

Um.

00:59:18,765 --> 00:59:23,065

And one thing that I've noticed going

to the conferences that I've been going

00:59:23,065 --> 00:59:26,515

to for the last 18 months, people come

up to me and they stop me and they

00:59:26,515 --> 00:59:28,465

tap me on the shoulder and they're

like, listen, I just want to tell

00:59:28,465 --> 00:59:29,825

you I love this show and everything.

00:59:30,205 --> 00:59:33,265

We love that Lauren asks the first

question and blah, blah, blah,

00:59:33,265 --> 00:59:34,775

that first 10 minutes is golden.

00:59:35,245 --> 00:59:36,335

And they're like, and you know what?

00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:43,930

I had no idea that the education system

was set up the way it was and my kids

00:59:43,930 --> 00:59:48,250

will never go to state school because of

listening to your interviews with what you

00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:52,250

guys have been on and whoever else I've

had on I must have like 15 or 20 different

00:59:52,270 --> 00:59:54,450

episodes now focused purely on that.

00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:56,570

And they're like, no, blown away.

00:59:56,770 --> 00:59:58,340

Can't believe I ever went through that.

00:59:58,340 --> 00:59:59,900

Can't believe I never questioned it.

01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,610

But all I do know is when I do

get married and we do have kids,

01:00:03,830 --> 01:00:06,180

they ain't going to state school

or I've got to find a partner.

01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,080

Who already thinks that their kids

are never going to go to state school.

01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,850

And I know I've probably

found the right partner.

01:00:11,850 --> 01:00:16,490

So it's, it's great to hear that, uh,

you know, you're, you're expecting

01:00:16,490 --> 01:00:17,740

just to talk about Bitcoin the whole

01:00:17,759 --> 01:00:18,229

Scott: Mm hmm.

01:00:19,550 --> 01:00:21,170

Prince: that's, that's

just a nice takeaway.

01:00:21,419 --> 01:00:25,159

Scott: Yeah, you guys are the OGs of, of

world schooling to the, I mean, they're

01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:27,389

like, oh man, look, they were in early.

01:00:27,389 --> 01:00:28,309

They did it, you know, like,

01:00:29,099 --> 01:00:29,309

Tali: Yeah.

01:00:29,314 --> 01:00:34,589

I think now that our eyes are opened,

a lot of people have talked to us after

01:00:34,589 --> 01:00:39,239

our, um, homeschooling panel discussions

different places and said, I, I don't

01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:43,649

have a significant other, so I don't have

any children, but when it does happen.

01:00:43,934 --> 01:00:47,774

They're getting homeschooled like

young people coming up to us and

01:00:47,784 --> 01:00:49,984

they're listening to the discussions.

01:00:50,049 --> 01:00:54,579

Scott: I think Bitcoiners are already

primed, like they're already, the

01:00:54,579 --> 01:00:59,849

idea of proof of work, um, taking self

custody of anything, money or education,

01:00:59,859 --> 01:01:03,869

like they're already in separation of

education and state, like they're, these,

01:01:03,919 --> 01:01:11,419

the concept of applying that to a new

area I think is a lot faster than, than

01:01:11,429 --> 01:01:16,889

the homeschoolers who are They, they

have a lot of the, the core, they value

01:01:16,889 --> 01:01:19,849

freedom, they value taking care of their

kids and their education and all that.

01:01:20,819 --> 01:01:22,999

But they're, they're like so far behind.

01:01:23,009 --> 01:01:27,799

They're not primed to hear a

new way of doing things, right?

01:01:27,799 --> 01:01:30,049

Our experience has been a lot

of the people who've chosen

01:01:30,049 --> 01:01:31,429

homeschooling, they're overwhelmed.

01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:35,249

Maybe now they're, they're trying

to get by on one, one income.

01:01:35,419 --> 01:01:37,479

So they're probably being super frugal.

01:01:38,209 --> 01:01:40,569

They're trying to figure out all the

curriculum that they need to have.

01:01:41,189 --> 01:01:44,089

And then you come along or

Tali and I come along and say,

01:01:44,739 --> 01:01:46,149

Hey, we, you should add this.

01:01:46,319 --> 01:01:48,989

You should add money to your, your thing.

01:01:48,989 --> 01:01:51,459

And by the way, it's

not Dave Ramsey, right?

01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:54,519

Like, you know, it's, it's, it's

this, this whole other thing.

01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:56,309

And you try to explain it to

them, their eyes glaze over.

01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:58,129

So now you're scaring

them with a new topic.

01:01:58,829 --> 01:02:00,229

They don't know how

they're going to fit it in.

01:02:00,339 --> 01:02:02,679

And if they do fit it in now that you're

going to try to convince them that you're

01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:04,179

the one that has trusted resources for it.

01:02:04,189 --> 01:02:06,029

So they're like, there's like

battle, battle, battle, battle.

01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:08,699

So they will eventually get there.

01:02:09,174 --> 01:02:11,804

Over the next, I don't know how

many years it'll, it'll, it'll take,

01:02:11,814 --> 01:02:16,854

but going to any Bitcoin meetup,

people are primed like they're,

01:02:17,264 --> 01:02:18,754

their mindset is already that way.

01:02:18,754 --> 01:02:20,584

And now they're just

applying it to their health.

01:02:20,644 --> 01:02:22,163

They're applying it to education.

01:02:22,163 --> 01:02:24,624

They're applying it to

just fill in the blank.

01:02:25,254 --> 01:02:27,114

They're just applying those

principles to the next thing and

01:02:27,134 --> 01:02:28,534

the next thing and the next thing.

01:02:28,634 --> 01:02:29,804

And it's true with education.

01:02:29,904 --> 01:02:32,374

So yeah, it's exciting.

01:02:32,614 --> 01:02:34,384

This is our area where

we feel like we can help.

01:02:34,924 --> 01:02:37,364

Give back to, like I said in

the introduction, like we're,

01:02:37,754 --> 01:02:39,344

we're not the techies, right?

01:02:39,344 --> 01:02:42,764

We're not gonna be able to explain

to you how the technical stuff works.

01:02:42,824 --> 01:02:46,114

Um, but, um, you know, we're not

financially analysts or anything like

01:02:46,174 --> 01:02:50,314

that, but I mean, this, this area we've,

we've, this is what we dedicate our lives

01:02:50,314 --> 01:02:51,913

to do with in terms of raising the kids.

01:02:51,913 --> 01:02:55,034

And it, it, it fits with the

mission of, and the freedom

01:02:55,074 --> 01:02:56,734

oriented people in Bitcoin.

01:02:56,924 --> 01:03:00,354

So, and we get to meet great

folks like, like yourselves.

01:03:00,354 --> 01:03:03,694

Like if we hadn't done this,

we never would have taught.

01:03:04,229 --> 01:03:07,779

I'd still be listening to my podcast

or, you know, books, whatever, seeing

01:03:07,779 --> 01:03:10,879

the kids, maybe a couple minutes at

night if I'm lucky because I'm so

01:03:10,879 --> 01:03:13,099

tired, I just want to go to bed, right?

01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:14,189

That would have been the alternative.

01:03:14,788 --> 01:03:19,169

And instead we're, we're out making

much deeper connections with people

01:03:19,169 --> 01:03:23,009

who value have the same kind of values

we have from all over the world.

01:03:23,059 --> 01:03:26,549

Tali is interviewing ladies from

like literally all over the world.

01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:29,249

And we're talking about going to Madeira.

01:03:29,329 --> 01:03:32,349

We're talking about other

things that we want to do.

01:03:32,369 --> 01:03:33,279

We went to El Salvador.

01:03:33,749 --> 01:03:37,529

We never would have done that had

we not been in this community.

01:03:37,529 --> 01:03:39,439

So it's, it's very exciting to be part of.

01:03:40,259 --> 01:03:42,919

And hopefully the kids are watching

and they'll get some ideas and

01:03:42,919 --> 01:03:46,288

they'll say, yeah, we want to, we

want to do what mom and dad did.

01:03:46,709 --> 01:03:47,099

I hope

01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:50,310

Prince: Well, we hope

to see you in Madeira.

01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:51,070

We'll, we'll be there.

01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:54,040

So if you get across, uh, it'd be

cool to, uh, to hang out with you.

01:03:55,309 --> 01:03:56,149

Scott: Yeah, that'd be awesome.

01:03:56,419 --> 01:03:57,139

Hey, let's do that.

01:03:57,614 --> 01:04:00,774

Prince: For me personally, it's

the, um, it's those conversations.

01:04:00,774 --> 01:04:02,174

It's the meeting the people.

01:04:02,834 --> 01:04:04,614

Um, I don't have.

01:04:05,274 --> 01:04:10,084

inspiring conversations day to day

with people around in our communities.

01:04:10,504 --> 01:04:11,334

Other than you, babe.

01:04:11,734 --> 01:04:18,174

But, um, but then, uh, when we, uh, go

to those, those, uh, those conferences or

01:04:18,174 --> 01:04:23,804

the meetups, just every conversation, what

people are doing or how they're doing it.