SHOW TOPIC:

Clair and Daniel Prince bring the proof-of-work.  Homeschooling while you’re traveling the world takes commitment and courage.  In this episode they share their perspectives on un-programming ourselves as parents, teaching values to children, the importance of critical thinking skills, regulatory creep in Europe, and developing deep and bonding relationships with your family.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

• Clair and Daniel started their journey on world schooling in 2014.
• Originally reason had nothing to do with education.  It started because they wanted to exit the corporate rat race.
• Self-directed education includes world schooling, unschooling, homeschooling, self-led learning.
• Benefits have included spending time with their children, seeing how they learn differently from one another, and so much more.
• When Daniel first left his fiat job, he and Clair had to work out the balance.  They had different methods of discipline, different approaches to teaching, different expectations of learning, different levels of patience, etc.
• It’s important to understand you have to do a lot of de-schooling and un-programming of your own.
• Socialization fears with alternative education are not just wrong.  The reality is homeschooled kids are demonstrably better interacting with people of all ages, including adults.
• Transition time between activities and events is critical
• You can learn skills later in life, but you can’t go back and create time with your kids.  You’re building lifelong relationships.
• One of the biggest rewards is teaching your kids to think critically
• How to have conversations with older children about the decision to go to university or not
• The word “drop out” is a psy op
• Western European countries are making it harder for parents to homeschool since covid
• World schooling is still a cheaper way to live than staying in one place
• Clair and Daniel are still judged today on their original decision to world school versus looking at the results, e.g., being bilingual
• World schooling takes work, but it’s worth it

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

Daniel is the host of the 'Once BITten Podcast' Once BITten

Daniel’s book “Choose Life” Choose Life

Daniel’s Twitter: @PrinceySOV

Daniel’s Orange Pill App (OPA): @princey

• Hannah Miller “10 Ways World Schooling Has Ruined My Childhood” https://edventuregirl.com/10-ways-world-schooling-has-ruined-my-childhood/
• Kahn Academy https://www.khanacademy.org
• Kubrio https://kubrio.com
• Outschool https://outschool.com
• Gabor Maté’s “Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers”
• Murray Rothbard’s “Education: Free & Compulsory”
• Peter Gray’s “Free to Learn”
• Interview with Peter Gray on Once BITten 142: https://fountain.fm/episode/VTzhdlX9sMKpv11pLIQ1
• Interview with Pat Farenga on Once BITten 390: https://fountain.fm/episode/lEsk9HVonYRXOIjzoJOs

John Holt books

• “How Children Learn”
• “Teach Your Own: The Indispensable Guide to Living and Learning with Children at Home”
• “Learning All the Time”
• “How Children Fail”
• “Instead of Education: Ways to Help People do Things Better”
• “Growing Without Schooling” (GWS: The Complete Collection)

Naomi Fisher Books

• “A Different Way to Learn”
• “Changing Our Minds: How Children Can Take Control of Their Own Learning”

John Taylor Gato Books

• “The Underground History of American Education, Volume I: An Intimate Investigation Into the Prison of Modern Schooling”
•  “Dumbing Us Down - 25th Anniversary Edition: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling”
• “Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey Through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling”
• “A Different Kind of Teacher: Solving the Crisis of American Schooling”

HAPPY TO HELP:

• Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
• Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
• Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
• Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
• Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
• Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

• Subscribe, like and share this podcast with others
• Visit our “Free Market Kids“ for products like the Bitcoin mining game, HODL UP  https://www.freemarketkids.com,
• Enjoy a 21% DISCOUNT on pre-sales of the 2024 Halving Collectors edition of HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/products/hodl-up-2024-halving-event-commemorative-edition
• Check out Tali’s podcast by and for Bitcoin women, “Orange Hatter” https://www.orangehatter.com  
• Have fun with “Proof of Work Apparel” https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/proof-of-work-apparel

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

• Article "Homeschoolers Are Bitcoiners Who Don't Know It Yet" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/parallels-between-homeschool-and-bitcoin
• Tali’s “Quick Start” checklist  https://www.freemarketkids.com/blogs/i-want-to-start-homeschooling/i-want-to-start-homeschooling-quick-start-checklist

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

This is called alternative education.

2

00:00:01,769 --> 00:00:05,139

What we've come to realize, and many

homeschoolers have come to realize,

3

00:00:05,139 --> 00:00:10,595

that alternative education is locking

a kid in a freaking classroom with

4

00:00:10,615 --> 00:00:12,345

30 strangers for eight hours a day.

5

00:00:12,954 --> 00:00:14,734

That's alternative.

6

00:00:14,764 --> 00:00:16,254

There's nothing natural there.

7

00:00:16,254 --> 00:00:19,175

The critical thinking I think is

the most important thing and being

8

00:00:19,175 --> 00:00:22,385

able to make their own decisions,

look into things themselves.

9

00:00:23,005 --> 00:00:25,045

not take everything at face value.

10

00:00:25,675 --> 00:00:29,335

There's gonna be more and more

homeschooled kids in the next 10 to 15

11

00:00:29,335 --> 00:00:34,185

years So for anybody that's contemplating

this, it's, , very important to understand

12

00:00:34,705 --> 00:00:39,825

that you've got to do a lot of de

schooling and unprogramming of your.

13

00:00:39,995 --> 00:00:40,425

Own.

14

00:00:41,414 --> 00:00:42,974

. Scott: Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

15

00:00:43,284 --> 00:00:48,154

Talia and I are always thinking about how

we can give back and we're not coders.

16

00:00:48,184 --> 00:00:49,214

We can't make wallets.

17

00:00:49,214 --> 00:00:50,524

We're not financial analysts.

18

00:00:50,524 --> 00:00:52,614

We're not gonna write a book

on the history of money.

19

00:00:52,964 --> 00:00:55,454

But we do have over two

decades of homeschooling.

20

00:00:56,024 --> 00:00:58,714

We believe very strongly in the

separation of education state and

21

00:00:58,714 --> 00:01:00,134

the self custody of education.

22

00:01:00,714 --> 00:01:04,373

And the whole purpose of this Bitcoin

Homeschooler podcast is to serve as

23

00:01:04,373 --> 00:01:06,684

a vehicle for us to help give back.

24

00:01:07,154 --> 00:01:11,484

Part of that Is hearing other points of

view and other experiences and today we

25

00:01:11,484 --> 00:01:15,574

are blessed to have Daniel and Claire

Prince and talk about proof of work.

26

00:01:15,794 --> 00:01:21,134

These guys are world schooling, they have

written a book called Choose Life about

27

00:01:21,134 --> 00:01:22,944

it, and we cannot wait to get into it.

28

00:01:22,954 --> 00:01:24,124

So, guys, welcome.

29

00:01:25,904 --> 00:01:27,064

Prince: Thanks for having us on.

30

00:01:27,574 --> 00:01:28,324

Great to be here.

31

00:01:29,764 --> 00:01:33,264

Scott: Alright, my thought is maybe we

start off the conversation, assuming

32

00:01:33,264 --> 00:01:34,644

that people have not read your book.

33

00:01:35,299 --> 00:01:40,439

Could you just give a little bit of

background on like your, your path

34

00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:44,759

on where you are that I think just to

help ground things for the audience.

35

00:01:45,167 --> 00:01:46,176

Tali: ground things

36

00:01:46,234 --> 00:01:47,194

Prince: Yeah, absolutely.

37

00:01:47,264 --> 00:01:52,144

We started this journey into

homeschooling, world schooling,

38

00:01:52,144 --> 00:01:56,984

unschooling, self directed

education, uh, all of the above.

39

00:01:57,209 --> 00:02:01,699

Because they all kind of like merge

into one thing back in 2014, March,

40

00:02:01,709 --> 00:02:05,419

2014, we, we left their old life behind.

41

00:02:05,889 --> 00:02:07,359

We were living in Singapore at the time.

42

00:02:07,929 --> 00:02:11,829

We sold pretty much everything we

owned at that stage and took off

43

00:02:11,829 --> 00:02:13,259

with the kids and started traveling.

44

00:02:13,259 --> 00:02:15,009

We thought we might go

for six to nine months.

45

00:02:15,934 --> 00:02:20,674

But that ended up being two and a half,

almost three years of constant travel, uh,

46

00:02:20,684 --> 00:02:26,124

with the kids, four of them aged eight,

six, and two, three year old twins at

47

00:02:26,134 --> 00:02:27,904

the, uh, the time that we started that.

48

00:02:28,404 --> 00:02:33,764

Uh, and that, yeah, really kind of

took us down the journey of what it

49

00:02:33,764 --> 00:02:36,824

means to separate education from state.

50

00:02:37,034 --> 00:02:39,353

And we've done all kinds of different.

51

00:02:39,819 --> 00:02:43,959

education with them in a system, whether

that's private schooling, Montessori

52

00:02:43,959 --> 00:02:49,309

style, or straight up state school in

Singapore, straight up state school

53

00:02:49,309 --> 00:02:55,728

in France, and mix that over the last

10 years with other, other styles.

54

00:02:55,749 --> 00:02:56,668

Self led learning.

55

00:02:56,819 --> 00:02:58,978

Self led learning at the

moment, for sure, yeah.

56

00:02:59,059 --> 00:03:05,329

But originally it was nothing to do with

education as to why, why we fell into it.

57

00:03:05,359 --> 00:03:08,689

It was because We were looking

for a different way of living.

58

00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,589

We wanted to quit the rat race.

59

00:03:10,899 --> 00:03:19,728

And homeschooling was how we kind of

worked that first initial few years

60

00:03:19,728 --> 00:03:21,539

because we wanted the freedom of travel.

61

00:03:22,309 --> 00:03:26,759

And then once you start to learn about

it and read about it, and you realize

62

00:03:27,294 --> 00:03:31,614

And see the results and see the results

and actually get to spend time with

63

00:03:31,614 --> 00:03:37,174

your children and see how they're

learning and see how differently they

64

00:03:37,304 --> 00:03:41,914

all learn, you know, having four,

they all learn completely differently.

65

00:03:42,624 --> 00:03:43,353

And, uh,

66

00:03:43,529 --> 00:03:45,189

Scott: yeah, that's

really, they really do.

67

00:03:45,228 --> 00:03:50,259

What did you have support from both of

your both sides of the family or friends

68

00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:51,819

when you were making that decision?

69

00:03:53,224 --> 00:03:56,894

Prince: we had a lot of, interestingly,

we had some friends that were teachers.

70

00:03:57,834 --> 00:04:01,574

And they were really supportive

about it, maybe because of the age

71

00:04:01,574 --> 00:04:03,144

that the children were as well.

72

00:04:04,194 --> 00:04:06,214

Uh, family, not so much.

73

00:04:06,254 --> 00:04:08,434

I think it's a generational thing as well.

74

00:04:09,284 --> 00:04:10,304

They were more shocked.

75

00:04:10,603 --> 00:04:11,224

Yeah.

76

00:04:11,353 --> 00:04:14,534

And that comes from The fear of

ruining their grandchildren, I suppose.

77

00:04:14,624 --> 00:04:18,624

Yeah, and that comes from a point of,

obviously, love and concern and worry

78

00:04:18,814 --> 00:04:24,899

and fear that We were being irresponsible

and going to damage our kids chances

79

00:04:24,899 --> 00:04:29,449

of ever being able to go to college

and ever being able to get a job or

80

00:04:29,449 --> 00:04:31,049

ever being able to socialize properly.

81

00:04:31,059 --> 00:04:32,619

You know all of the FUD.

82

00:04:32,739 --> 00:04:33,099

Scott: Mm hmm.

83

00:04:33,774 --> 00:04:34,724

Right, right.

84

00:04:35,114 --> 00:04:36,404

So, Tali, you wanted to comment?

85

00:04:36,459 --> 00:04:38,879

Tali: Just from the point of

view of a mom, like logistic,

86

00:04:39,049 --> 00:04:42,299

logistically, how did you handle that?

87

00:04:42,339 --> 00:04:45,849

Because not only were you traveling,

which in and of itself is difficult,

88

00:04:46,159 --> 00:04:49,759

but when you're also trying to school

on top of that, what did you use?

89

00:04:49,799 --> 00:04:51,259

Like what material did you use?

90

00:04:51,369 --> 00:04:52,829

What was your method of teaching?

91

00:04:54,899 --> 00:05:01,519

Prince: Well, uh, originally, I mean, life

was crazy for us, um, at home back then.

92

00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:06,989

Um, Dan was probably not home much at all.

93

00:05:07,009 --> 00:05:08,189

So it was all on me.

94

00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:13,669

And I had, the twins that were

coming up for three and the,

95

00:05:14,009 --> 00:05:15,349

six year old and eight year old.

96

00:05:16,249 --> 00:05:20,609

And Singapore was very much keeping

up with the Joneses environment where

97

00:05:20,609 --> 00:05:26,519

they have to do all the activities

and, um, you know, swimming, dancing,

98

00:05:26,569 --> 00:05:29,579

tennis, uh, all the, all the above.

99

00:05:30,159 --> 00:05:36,609

And I was so stressed with getting

them everywhere and naps and trying

100

00:05:36,609 --> 00:05:38,799

to be the mom with no family to help.

101

00:05:39,739 --> 00:05:43,189

And, so something had to give.

102

00:05:43,229 --> 00:05:48,558

And it was more a case of me snapping

at a child because they've forgotten

103

00:05:48,558 --> 00:05:50,659

their ballet slippers at the age of six.

104

00:05:51,109 --> 00:05:56,808

And thinking, this isn't right, this,

why should my five year old even care

105

00:05:56,808 --> 00:06:05,064

about Um, ballet slippers and um,

so traveling and homeschooling now

106

00:06:05,064 --> 00:06:08,664

all of a sudden I've got Dan around

so I've got an extra person, um,

107

00:06:08,774 --> 00:06:12,274

to help, um, and we love to travel.

108

00:06:13,214 --> 00:06:15,214

She wanted to say Hinda there, by the way,

109

00:06:16,804 --> 00:06:17,204

Scott: Well, that's a,

110

00:06:17,374 --> 00:06:19,434

Prince: but um, Scott knows

what I'm talking about.

111

00:06:19,464 --> 00:06:20,934

Scott: Yeah, there's a transition.

112

00:06:21,669 --> 00:06:25,109

So not, we, we haven't done the world

schooling, but we're about a year trying

113

00:06:25,109 --> 00:06:30,159

to go full time with our entrepreneurial

Bitcoin education and it's different.

114

00:06:30,259 --> 00:06:34,929

I mean, I'll, from the man standpoint

to be, to be around, to see how much

115

00:06:34,929 --> 00:06:40,229

work Tali was doing to keep all kinds of

things going that I just had no idea on.

116

00:06:40,899 --> 00:06:42,839

And then I'm like, okay,

well, well now what do I do?

117

00:06:42,939 --> 00:06:45,049

Like, um, I wanted a man,

I'm supposed to help.

118

00:06:45,558 --> 00:06:49,099

No clue how this, this operation

is really, is really running.

119

00:06:49,683 --> 00:06:52,404

So, I mean, you guys, it sounds like

you guys did fine with it, but it was a

120

00:06:52,644 --> 00:06:55,574

Prince: No, to start with, it was

tough because we had different.

121

00:06:56,639 --> 00:07:04,369

Methods of discipline and different

methods of what approaches to teaching

122

00:07:04,369 --> 00:07:07,439

and different expectations of learning.

123

00:07:07,849 --> 00:07:13,029

So it took us a while to different

levels of patience as well.

124

00:07:15,349 --> 00:07:16,469

It turns out I'm not as patient as

125

00:07:16,574 --> 00:07:17,334

Scott: Daniel, are you

126

00:07:17,334 --> 00:07:17,644

helping

127

00:07:17,679 --> 00:07:18,449

Prince: but in the,

128

00:07:20,384 --> 00:07:22,064

Scott: Are you actually

helping teach then, too?

129

00:07:23,459 --> 00:07:24,449

Prince: different things.

130

00:07:24,559 --> 00:07:27,169

Um, we both have our skills.

131

00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:28,449

Yeah, exactly.

132

00:07:28,509 --> 00:07:29,579

Uh, yes, for sure.

133

00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:31,959

Um, I'm just trying to think

back to like the, the very

134

00:07:31,989 --> 00:07:33,219

early days when you're going.

135

00:07:33,479 --> 00:07:38,039

So for anybody that's contemplating this,

it's, I think, uh, very important to

136

00:07:38,039 --> 00:07:44,329

understand that you've got to do a lot of

de schooling and unprogramming of your.

137

00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:45,069

Own.

138

00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:46,319

Which we hadn't at the time.

139

00:07:46,329 --> 00:07:50,629

Yeah, of your own problems that you've

carried through your own schooling and

140

00:07:50,949 --> 00:07:52,509

into your adult life and whatever else.

141

00:07:52,510 --> 00:07:57,039

And the expectations of learning because

all we knew was Sit down and learn

142

00:07:57,039 --> 00:08:02,279

from a book, you know that that was

what has been drilled into us as well.

143

00:08:02,599 --> 00:08:06,059

And at that stage, I was coming

out of an 18 year career.

144

00:08:06,089 --> 00:08:07,579

So I've just done the linear thing.

145

00:08:07,579 --> 00:08:12,929

I've done to school, got some grades,

gone into an apprenticeship, got better,

146

00:08:13,139 --> 00:08:17,939

got moved up, got moved to a different

country, was on the fast track into,

147

00:08:18,329 --> 00:08:25,059

you know, Another 10 to 15 years of

just sitting there and grinding out and

148

00:08:25,059 --> 00:08:29,639

getting the retirement and whatever else

and all of a sudden that's gone and I'm

149

00:08:29,639 --> 00:08:36,739

at home every day and dual parenting

rather than single parenting and then

150

00:08:36,739 --> 00:08:41,318

trying to, you know, help the kids with

whatever it is that they're trying to do.

151

00:08:41,703 --> 00:08:48,554

Um, my levels of patience fluctuated

very, uh, quite volatile in the

152

00:08:48,564 --> 00:08:52,944

early days because I've been used to

being in a business scenario, 10, 11

153

00:08:52,944 --> 00:08:56,524

hours a day, five days a week, not

dealing with three year olds that are

154

00:08:56,524 --> 00:09:00,484

arguing over whose cup is who when

the cup is the same freaking color.

155

00:09:02,174 --> 00:09:03,584

That's all a million times.

156

00:09:05,664 --> 00:09:08,614

like, stuff like that I couldn't

handle, like, right, I gotta

157

00:09:08,614 --> 00:09:10,074

be out of the room right now.

158

00:09:11,264 --> 00:09:11,844

Scott: That's awesome.

159

00:09:12,724 --> 00:09:12,944

Yeah.

160

00:09:12,944 --> 00:09:15,674

I think, I mean, for me, what

I hear though, you, you're, you

161

00:09:15,674 --> 00:09:16,954

took, you made the leap, right?

162

00:09:16,954 --> 00:09:18,204

You, you said we're in this together.

163

00:09:18,204 --> 00:09:19,314

We're committing to this.

164

00:09:19,314 --> 00:09:21,204

You have the courage to, to do that.

165

00:09:21,274 --> 00:09:24,574

And then later on, it's not till

later on that you figure out how

166

00:09:24,574 --> 00:09:27,774

you do it, the capacity for it, and

let alone to have the confidence.

167

00:09:28,804 --> 00:09:34,064

Prince: Yeah, we took books with us

and we tried to pretend, um, that

168

00:09:34,064 --> 00:09:36,114

we were, we knew what we were doing.

169

00:09:36,674 --> 00:09:41,704

And, um, you know, occasionally would sit

down and say, right, open the books, kids.

170

00:09:42,314 --> 00:09:45,404

And then we realized that

that was really hard.

171

00:09:46,224 --> 00:09:52,834

And then we would go out and we, we

were traveling at times and then go to

172

00:09:52,834 --> 00:09:59,194

a museum or we'd be in a place where

every day was a lesson just traveling.

173

00:10:00,074 --> 00:10:04,154

then we realized that they were

actually getting so much from our

174

00:10:04,154 --> 00:10:06,074

traveling and our journey and.

175

00:10:06,814 --> 00:10:11,444

And hopefully they wouldn't remember it,

which I'm not sure they actually did.

176

00:10:11,814 --> 00:10:18,034

But, um, but yeah, so then it, we

tried to use the world as our school,

177

00:10:18,094 --> 00:10:22,824

but then occasionally we'd go, But

we have to do some more sit down

178

00:10:22,834 --> 00:10:26,014

stuff and try and them down again.

179

00:10:26,044 --> 00:10:31,804

And then that would end up in arguments

because, um, they didn't want to do that,

180

00:10:31,814 --> 00:10:33,814

or they'd get frustrated really quickly.

181

00:10:34,714 --> 00:10:36,554

it's an unnatural way to learn, right?

182

00:10:36,554 --> 00:10:37,304

This is the thing.

183

00:10:37,644 --> 00:10:39,354

This is called alternative education.

184

00:10:39,364 --> 00:10:42,734

What we've come to realize, and many

homeschoolers have come to realize,

185

00:10:42,734 --> 00:10:48,189

that alternative education is locking

a kid in a freaking classroom with

186

00:10:48,209 --> 00:10:49,939

30 strangers for eight hours a day.

187

00:10:50,549 --> 00:10:52,329

That's alternative.

188

00:10:52,359 --> 00:10:53,849

There's nothing natural there.

189

00:10:54,774 --> 00:10:56,174

Scott: right, I was just

going to ask you about that.

190

00:10:56,254 --> 00:10:59,534

I was, I mean, cause at some point the

light bulb goes on and you're like.

191

00:11:00,119 --> 00:11:03,109

I know you'd comment in your, in

your, your book about socialization.

192

00:11:03,109 --> 00:11:06,239

That was something that our

families had had concern about.

193

00:11:06,899 --> 00:11:09,289

Then they, they, as they get

older and you're worried, man,

194

00:11:09,299 --> 00:11:11,349

I'm, I'm almost too worried.

195

00:11:11,379 --> 00:11:12,539

Not, not too worried.

196

00:11:12,809 --> 00:11:16,069

I'm almost worried for the opposite

reason that they're too social.

197

00:11:16,229 --> 00:11:18,679

They, they're their confidence now

and handling a lot of different

198

00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,669

situations with a lot of different

types of adults and, and others.

199

00:11:23,339 --> 00:11:26,309

They're very confident in

things that I was like, Hmm.

200

00:11:26,779 --> 00:11:30,319

So like what was that like lightbulb

moment as you kind of realized what

201

00:11:30,319 --> 00:11:34,229

you just commented on Daniel where

you you realize that actually This

202

00:11:34,239 --> 00:11:36,189

is the natural way of learning.

203

00:11:36,189 --> 00:11:37,979

This is actually better for my kids.

204

00:11:38,439 --> 00:11:40,159

Like what when was that

moment for you guys?

205

00:11:41,709 --> 00:11:45,929

Prince: I don't even know if we get,

we've had a light bulb moment, but we do

206

00:11:46,439 --> 00:11:52,729

get a lot of compliments from strangers,

um, or people that just meet them about

207

00:11:52,739 --> 00:12:00,709

how they can to adults, look people

in the eye, um, engage with people.

208

00:12:02,299 --> 00:12:06,369

And that started happening very

early and still happens to this day.

209

00:12:06,419 --> 00:12:08,339

And that's nothing to

do with what we've done.

210

00:12:08,339 --> 00:12:12,469

I think it's purely by being

around us the whole time.

211

00:12:12,479 --> 00:12:19,354

I think that's just, it's like

An osmosis of being around us.

212

00:12:19,394 --> 00:12:24,144

They've just learnt how to

engage with people more.

213

00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:29,624

I think that's, uh, uh, one of

the big disadvantages of the world

214

00:12:29,634 --> 00:12:32,454

that children spend less time

with their parents these days.

215

00:12:32,674 --> 00:12:36,174

And I think they don't

learn so much from that.

216

00:12:36,754 --> 00:12:37,174

Yeah.

217

00:12:37,175 --> 00:12:43,404

And I think, um, perhaps a light bulb

moment for me was meeting other world

218

00:12:43,404 --> 00:12:44,874

schoolers and homeschooled kids.

219

00:12:45,464 --> 00:12:52,184

Uh, along the way, um, and even

really early, we read that blog post.

220

00:12:53,734 --> 00:12:54,544

What was her name?

221

00:12:55,064 --> 00:12:55,534

I don't know.

222

00:12:56,819 --> 00:12:59,459

Scott: You listed out like a

hundred resources in the book like I

223

00:12:59,469 --> 00:13:03,329

was like I was going through it and I'm

like you just had So many to look at

224

00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:05,199

I won't even pretend that I know which one

225

00:13:05,234 --> 00:13:05,894

Prince: Hannah Miller.

226

00:13:05,994 --> 00:13:08,514

Hannah Miller wrote this and

she was 13 when she wrote it

227

00:13:08,714 --> 00:13:10,574

and it was called, what's hell?

228

00:13:10,804 --> 00:13:12,334

Hell world schooling ruined my life.

229

00:13:15,304 --> 00:13:19,059

And it was like a brilliant clickbait

title and a satirical piece.

230

00:13:19,059 --> 00:13:20,214

But it was very satirical.

231

00:13:20,214 --> 00:13:22,174

It was, it was, it meant

actually the opposite.

232

00:13:22,774 --> 00:13:27,474

So yeah, I suppose those little

moments when um, one is like, I

233

00:13:27,474 --> 00:13:32,914

wish, I hope that by the age of 13

my child can write in this style

234

00:13:32,914 --> 00:13:35,144

and be as funny and as open as this.

235

00:13:35,489 --> 00:13:39,539

And then, um, you met other kids

around the world and like the slightly

236

00:13:39,539 --> 00:13:41,389

older ones, you're like, ah, okay.

237

00:13:41,549 --> 00:13:44,159

And like Claire said, they'll

come up, introduce themselves.

238

00:13:44,179 --> 00:13:47,139

You could be anywhere, on a beach, in a

park, in a little world school meetup.

239

00:13:47,459 --> 00:13:51,209

You'd fall into Facebook groups, so

you'd hit country, who's world schooling

240

00:13:51,209 --> 00:13:54,239

here, who's on their travels, and blah,

blah, blah, go and meet in the park.

241

00:13:54,739 --> 00:13:58,489

And you'd meet the other kids, so

like, ours were very young still,

242

00:13:58,529 --> 00:14:01,129

but you'd meet a 13, 14 year

old and they'd come up to you.

243

00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,849

shake your hand, introduce

themselves and sit down.

244

00:14:03,849 --> 00:14:06,569

Before you know it, you've had a

conversation for 30 or 40 minutes

245

00:14:06,569 --> 00:14:08,719

and they've told you where they've

been and this and the other thing.

246

00:14:08,999 --> 00:14:13,399

You're like, huh, I'm like just sitting

here, chilling out, chatting to a

247

00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:19,289

13 year old when I'm used to that

experience being, uh, hello, how are you?

248

00:14:19,539 --> 00:14:20,819

Um, yeah, nice.

249

00:14:20,889 --> 00:14:22,409

Um, how's school?

250

00:14:23,179 --> 00:14:25,299

Uh, oh yeah, yeah, it's okay.

251

00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:26,069

Like.

252

00:14:27,044 --> 00:14:32,164

With a normal schooled person and that

could even be your niece or nephew who

253

00:14:32,164 --> 00:14:36,829

you're supposed to be close to that

just cannot have that, you know, there's

254

00:14:36,829 --> 00:14:42,809

that barrier between you and them

because they're so used to being the

255

00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:48,329

only adult that they ever get exposed

to is the authority at the front of the

256

00:14:48,329 --> 00:14:51,649

classroom and that's their day to day.

257

00:14:52,009 --> 00:14:56,124

So, Those little light bulb moments for

me were like, yeah, we're on the right

258

00:14:56,134 --> 00:15:01,004

track with, with these kids because

look at, and this is what we keep

259

00:15:01,284 --> 00:15:06,364

coming up against now because Caitlin

is now 18, the twins are coming up 13.

260

00:15:06,624 --> 00:15:08,694

Every time we go away to

one of these conferences.

261

00:15:09,079 --> 00:15:12,709

They're sitting down for hours talking

to other Bitcoiner will call on me later.

262

00:15:12,829 --> 00:15:14,589

He's like, dude, your kids.

263

00:15:14,809 --> 00:15:16,409

I've just been talking to them for hours.

264

00:15:16,409 --> 00:15:17,429

I'm like, how old are they again?

265

00:15:17,919 --> 00:15:18,149

Yeah.

266

00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:19,549

Those guys are 12.

267

00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:21,409

Like, this is crazy.

268

00:15:22,669 --> 00:15:25,559

Scott: Well, a compliment to you guys

then for, uh, for raising them that way.

269

00:15:25,629 --> 00:15:27,709

Tali, you were, you were going

to ask something there to that?

270

00:15:28,724 --> 00:15:32,084

Tali: Well, I, I just want to kind

of second what you said with that's

271

00:15:32,094 --> 00:15:35,314

something that we have noticed in

our homeschooling groups as well.

272

00:15:35,374 --> 00:15:41,654

We haven't come across really a whole

lot of world travelers, but just the fact

273

00:15:41,674 --> 00:15:45,874

that the kids have daily conversations

with adults, mom and dad, if just mom and

274

00:15:45,874 --> 00:15:48,294

dad, that makes such a huge difference.

275

00:15:48,504 --> 00:15:50,364

More than the passing, , I'm

going to school now.

276

00:15:50,364 --> 00:15:50,614

Bye.

277

00:15:50,964 --> 00:15:51,434

I love you.

278

00:15:51,434 --> 00:15:52,974

You know, that kind of passing moment.

279

00:15:52,975 --> 00:15:57,194

But discussions in the kitchen, , just

over dinner table, that kind of stuff.

280

00:15:58,154 --> 00:16:03,864

Because what you guys did is a

huge, huge leap from somebody who

281

00:16:03,864 --> 00:16:06,564

is still stuck at a corporate job

and the kids are going to school.

282

00:16:06,564 --> 00:16:09,664

So it might seem like it's, it's

like a completely different world.

283

00:16:09,664 --> 00:16:13,914

But even if you just take small steps

toward having more conversations

284

00:16:13,914 --> 00:16:16,274

with your kids, you are already

moving in that direction.

285

00:16:16,584 --> 00:16:17,784

Kids respond really quickly.

286

00:16:18,144 --> 00:16:22,604

Something else I wanted to mention was

I wanted to ask you, uh, you mentioned a

287

00:16:22,604 --> 00:16:26,634

few minutes back that, , you'd be world

traveling, you'd be visiting museums

288

00:16:26,634 --> 00:16:28,284

and visiting these incredible cities.

289

00:16:28,574 --> 00:16:31,614

And then you suddenly realized,

Oh, I should probably make sure

290

00:16:31,614 --> 00:16:34,124

they can still write maybe too mad.

291

00:16:34,564 --> 00:16:35,814

And you're sitting them down.

292

00:16:36,064 --> 00:16:40,114

I don't know about your experience,

but for our kids, that was very painful

293

00:16:40,414 --> 00:16:45,919

because What I forgot for myself

was I needed transition time between

294

00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:51,334

running places and When I'm the one

who's coordinating all of it and I'm

295

00:16:51,354 --> 00:16:54,944

not the one doing the learning, I

forget that and then I force the kids

296

00:16:55,474 --> 00:17:00,254

without that transition time to sit

and then it becomes so difficult, you

297

00:17:00,254 --> 00:17:03,164

know, like the temper tantrums and

the meltdowns and things like that.

298

00:17:03,354 --> 00:17:06,534

What was your experience like and

what did you guys do to help the kids

299

00:17:06,534 --> 00:17:11,334

transition from going all over the place

and then sitting down quiet at the table?

300

00:17:11,444 --> 00:17:14,784

I do believe that that is part of

schooling and that is where self

301

00:17:14,784 --> 00:17:19,914

discipline comes into play and it is also

Really a necessary part of schooling.

302

00:17:20,013 --> 00:17:21,194

So what did you guys do?

303

00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:24,749

Prince: I can completely

relate to what you're saying.

304

00:17:24,819 --> 00:17:29,499

It's, it's when it's on your, on your

terms, like you've got to be somewhere.

305

00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:30,359

You're doing something.

306

00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,219

You're trying to rush them

through, sit down and do this.

307

00:17:33,249 --> 00:17:35,869

We've got half an hour to get this done.

308

00:17:36,299 --> 00:17:37,329

That's when it all.

309

00:17:38,074 --> 00:17:42,824

goes down and that's totally a parenting

issue, not the child's issue, but

310

00:17:42,824 --> 00:17:44,444

we put that onto them, I suppose.

311

00:17:44,445 --> 00:17:50,344

I don't know if we've ever, I agree,

you do have to do sit down things,

312

00:17:50,344 --> 00:17:53,694

you do have to do reading and writing

and things every now and then.

313

00:17:54,944 --> 00:17:56,984

Some days it works, some days it doesn't.

314

00:17:57,174 --> 00:18:00,564

, I don't know if we've ever solved it.

315

00:18:00,844 --> 00:18:06,674

I mean, I think as they've got

older, they've been able to do that

316

00:18:06,674 --> 00:18:10,564

themselves and do self study a bit more.

317

00:18:11,334 --> 00:18:15,404

And since they've been older, we've

been trying to follow, student

318

00:18:15,454 --> 00:18:18,234

led learning, which is that

they follow their own interests.

319

00:18:19,554 --> 00:18:25,204

So in the idea is that they're interested

in it themselves, so then they have

320

00:18:25,204 --> 00:18:27,784

much more motivation to, to sit down.

321

00:18:28,514 --> 00:18:31,284

So they'll join the clubs that they

want to join on, , like Cubrio,

322

00:18:31,814 --> 00:18:34,654

for example, we use, or Outskool.

323

00:18:35,174 --> 00:18:39,024

Uh, so then it's on them to

choose and decide which ones.

324

00:18:39,024 --> 00:18:44,434

We obviously help and guide

them and in some cases insist.

325

00:18:44,969 --> 00:18:50,139

Like, no, you're definitely doing that

one because there's no discussion there.

326

00:18:50,239 --> 00:18:53,649

You have to do it and you have

to try it and we can look at

327

00:18:53,649 --> 00:18:55,429

it again in a month's time.

328

00:18:55,429 --> 00:18:58,459

And maybe we can swap it

out for something else.

329

00:18:59,059 --> 00:19:02,029

So, yeah, there is still that element of.

330

00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:08,879

Uh, guidance, I suppose, and then when

they're actually on the clubs on the zoom

331

00:19:08,879 --> 00:19:13,239

calls with, uh, with the other kids and,

uh, and the facilitator that all goes

332

00:19:13,239 --> 00:19:15,239

fine, they'll sit down and do the work.

333

00:19:15,239 --> 00:19:19,639

They're on creative writing clubs

and sit there and tap away and then

334

00:19:19,639 --> 00:19:21,069

share their stories at the end of it.

335

00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:25,479

Uh, which I don't think we

would get the same result if

336

00:19:25,479 --> 00:19:27,159

it was just you and I saying.

337

00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:28,259

Definitely not.

338

00:19:28,439 --> 00:19:28,699

No.

339

00:19:28,989 --> 00:19:29,239

Right.

340

00:19:29,259 --> 00:19:33,139

Write us a story and then present it to

us in the lounge in 45 minutes and go.

341

00:19:34,919 --> 00:19:36,579

Scott: Well, there's something

that I would like to point out for

342

00:19:36,579 --> 00:19:40,119

the listeners too, that I think

we're just all taking for granted.

343

00:19:40,149 --> 00:19:43,629

You're, the ability to learn later,

like your own, as you're, as an adult,

344

00:19:43,629 --> 00:19:45,039

you're still going to be learning things.

345

00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:49,199

So there's something about that

self directed, that, that's

346

00:19:49,199 --> 00:19:51,289

a skill by it, by itself.

347

00:19:51,579 --> 00:19:54,459

But the thing that's on my mind as

you guys are talking is I'm just

348

00:19:54,459 --> 00:19:57,009

imagining you're traveling the world.

349

00:19:57,689 --> 00:20:01,319

You're having Multiple meals

with your kids during the day.

350

00:20:01,329 --> 00:20:04,739

Maybe sometimes you, you break up

and, and you're not, and you think

351

00:20:04,749 --> 00:20:09,259

about how many kids these days are

either in single family households,

352

00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:14,129

or even if both, there's a mom and

dad there, the, the hours you have

353

00:20:14,129 --> 00:20:16,309

to put into like the rat race, right?

354

00:20:16,379 --> 00:20:19,869

Or maybe you're both working and now

you're just kind of saying, okay, you're,

355

00:20:19,869 --> 00:20:23,729

your child's now gonna spend most of

their waking hours with other people.

356

00:20:24,764 --> 00:20:27,624

You can't, you can learn

a subject later on.

357

00:20:27,804 --> 00:20:30,944

You can go self teach, whatever

it is, later on, almost anything.

358

00:20:31,864 --> 00:20:37,134

You can't as easily go back and try to

build a relationship with your, with your

359

00:20:37,144 --> 00:20:41,334

kids and set an example of how parents

can work together through difficult times.

360

00:20:41,464 --> 00:20:44,714

Because I'm sure like, it's

not all like, you know, flowers

361

00:20:44,714 --> 00:20:46,014

and candy and whatever else.

362

00:20:46,024 --> 00:20:49,074

Like there's, there's, there's

tough times in there and they see

363

00:20:49,074 --> 00:20:50,374

mom and dad working through that.

364

00:20:51,094 --> 00:20:53,764

That's a huge, huge

thing to teach your kids.

365

00:20:53,765 --> 00:20:53,859

Yeah.

366

00:20:54,449 --> 00:20:56,769

And you can't easily go

back and learn that later.

367

00:20:57,589 --> 00:20:59,769

So that's what's on my mind as

we're having this discussion, is we

368

00:20:59,769 --> 00:21:03,319

can get into the, these technical

things on, is it Montessori?

369

00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:04,779

Is it Udemy?

370

00:21:04,779 --> 00:21:05,439

Is it whatever?

371

00:21:05,459 --> 00:21:09,709

But I mean, think about what the

kids are getting when you, I mean,

372

00:21:09,729 --> 00:21:13,719

to me, this is the heart of, of the

self custody of education, right?

373

00:21:13,719 --> 00:21:16,979

You are, you're, you're teaching so

much more in terms of life skills

374

00:21:16,979 --> 00:21:19,219

there and values that is just.

375

00:21:20,084 --> 00:21:23,264

You can't even put a price tag

on, on, on, on some of those.

376

00:21:24,479 --> 00:21:26,199

Prince: I mean, we sit down to eat.

377

00:21:27,074 --> 00:21:32,974

together pretty much every, well, at least

twice a day, sit down around a table.

378

00:21:33,324 --> 00:21:36,314

And you can imagine some of the

conversations there, but you know,

379

00:21:36,314 --> 00:21:41,624

they're proper discussions sometimes

around Bitcoin, not always, but they're

380

00:21:41,634 --> 00:21:49,474

proper discussions and with their points

of views and whether we think this is

381

00:21:49,774 --> 00:21:52,164

right to have this point of view or not.

382

00:21:52,679 --> 00:21:58,549

And, um, I think that again goes back

to their, you know, it gets discussed

383

00:21:58,589 --> 00:22:05,679

whether it's right or wrong, the

conversation, but, uh, it's, um, it's,

384

00:22:05,749 --> 00:22:10,469

I suppose like a mini debate sometimes,

but, uh, I think it's a skill as well.

385

00:22:10,649 --> 00:22:11,059

Yeah.

386

00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,659

And then with, with, to your point

as well, Scott, when we were doing

387

00:22:14,819 --> 00:22:16,289

the long term traveling with them.

388

00:22:16,809 --> 00:22:18,159

Uh, yeah, they were part of it.

389

00:22:18,189 --> 00:22:21,719

They were part, whether they realized it

or not, they were part of every decision.

390

00:22:21,789 --> 00:22:26,339

They were part of every up and part

of every down and they experienced.

391

00:22:26,924 --> 00:22:30,414

All of the good stuff and all of

the bad stuff together as a unit.

392

00:22:30,414 --> 00:22:34,404

Like when we were in Thailand and

Samuel split his head open, like

393

00:22:34,414 --> 00:22:38,744

they saw exactly like mom and dad

go straight into panic mode, alert

394

00:22:38,744 --> 00:22:40,954

mode, get this shit sorted out mode.

395

00:22:40,994 --> 00:22:43,344

And that was a learning

experience, all of it.

396

00:22:43,434 --> 00:22:46,534

And all of the emotions that came

with that and the sadness and

397

00:22:46,544 --> 00:22:48,534

then the relief that he was okay.

398

00:22:48,534 --> 00:22:51,464

And it was just some stitches and

he was back again in an hour or two.

399

00:22:52,024 --> 00:22:56,004

Um, you know, all look just

those kinds of situations.

400

00:22:56,869 --> 00:22:58,889

Huge amounts of learning

is going on there.

401

00:22:58,894 --> 00:22:59,284

Scott: Mm hmm.

402

00:23:00,104 --> 00:23:01,124

Yeah, absolutely.

403

00:23:01,284 --> 00:23:01,674

I love it.

404

00:23:02,724 --> 00:23:05,754

Tali: That was my favorite part

of homeschooling was the fact that

405

00:23:05,914 --> 00:23:09,724

our kids know each other very well

They know each other's friends.

406

00:23:09,784 --> 00:23:14,894

They know each other's teachers And what

like you said when we come to the table

407

00:23:15,284 --> 00:23:19,439

and They're debating certain points

of view or whatever it, they're still

408

00:23:19,439 --> 00:23:24,869

together and they can disagree, you know,

when, as they get older, because our, our

409

00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:26,439

girls are a little bit older than yours.

410

00:23:26,889 --> 00:23:30,989

Um, when they disagree, they

really disagree, but we're still.

411

00:23:31,234 --> 00:23:34,414

Able to talk about it and we can

always go back to the reference of

412

00:23:34,444 --> 00:23:38,724

remember that time when this teacher

did this and that kind of stuff I

413

00:23:38,724 --> 00:23:40,174

want to throw a question at you guys.

414

00:23:40,214 --> 00:23:41,544

I don't know if you've noticed this.

415

00:23:41,584 --> 00:23:43,194

I'm sure you have, but

I'm going to throw it out.

416

00:23:43,494 --> 00:23:48,054

So going back to what you said

before about when you decided to do

417

00:23:48,135 --> 00:23:53,064

Um, homeschooling and your family

out of their concern and love were

418

00:23:53,064 --> 00:23:57,494

afraid that, um, you were going to

ruin your kids because we had that.

419

00:23:57,524 --> 00:23:58,784

We had that on both sides.

420

00:23:59,194 --> 00:24:03,784

And what I am noticing now

with our kids being older.

421

00:24:04,774 --> 00:24:07,914

And they're going outside, obviously,

our family circle, our two boys are

422

00:24:07,914 --> 00:24:09,304

working, our girls are at school.

423

00:24:09,974 --> 00:24:15,134

What they're noticing now is that the

way they think is so, so different

424

00:24:15,374 --> 00:24:19,504

from their peers, that it's very,

very difficult for them to connect

425

00:24:19,534 --> 00:24:22,754

with peers that are the same age.

426

00:24:22,764 --> 00:24:26,064

Because they're still, right now,

scrolling on Instagram and talking about

427

00:24:26,064 --> 00:24:28,674

stuff that are somewhat unimportant.

428

00:24:28,724 --> 00:24:32,584

, they're stuck in the pop

culture, whereas our kids would.

429

00:24:32,984 --> 00:24:36,524

Look beyond that just be just because

of the type of conversation that we have

430

00:24:36,524 --> 00:24:41,844

our home So in that way they have been

frustrated that they they are having

431

00:24:41,844 --> 00:24:46,694

trouble Connecting with the general

peers outside the homeschooling circle.

432

00:24:46,724 --> 00:24:49,464

Are you guys noticing the same

thing for you guys for your kids?

433

00:24:51,549 --> 00:24:54,659

Prince: Yeah, well, we were

in another city the other day

434

00:24:54,669 --> 00:24:56,189

and, well, a few months ago.

435

00:24:57,499 --> 00:25:03,949

a busload of school kids obviously on a

on an excursion or going out for the day.

436

00:25:04,779 --> 00:25:08,709

Which, uh, the kids obviously in the

bus were looking at our kids that were

437

00:25:08,709 --> 00:25:11,789

just free out and about in the city.

438

00:25:12,939 --> 00:25:17,679

And they're all like pulling funny faces

out the bus window and, you know, sticking

439

00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:21,339

the middle finger up and things like

that, our kids and things, because they

440

00:25:21,339 --> 00:25:23,929

think that they're cool and, and, um.

441

00:25:25,134 --> 00:25:29,484

And then our kids turned around

to each other and went, kids that

442

00:25:29,484 --> 00:25:31,364

go to school are just so weird.

443

00:25:33,044 --> 00:25:33,304

Scott: Yeah.

444

00:25:34,684 --> 00:25:36,494

Can I, can I add this?

445

00:25:36,534 --> 00:25:39,624

I just, um, I, there's so many

questions I have for you guys.

446

00:25:39,634 --> 00:25:44,584

You clear, you mentioned Bitcoin

earlier and I'm curious, so I'm

447

00:25:44,584 --> 00:25:45,744

assuming you're a Bitcoiner.

448

00:25:45,804 --> 00:25:46,944

Is that, is that true?

449

00:25:47,234 --> 00:25:47,384

Are

450

00:25:47,524 --> 00:25:53,294

Prince: Yeah, I had the same belief, not

nearly as deep in as Dan, but yes, I agree

451

00:25:53,294 --> 00:25:56,944

with the concept and the ideas behind it.

452

00:25:57,084 --> 00:25:57,364

Scott: Okay.

453

00:25:57,364 --> 00:26:01,244

So, so Daniel was first and

then you, you were, brought

454

00:26:01,244 --> 00:26:03,024

along into the, the rabbit hole.

455

00:26:03,354 --> 00:26:06,794

So, and then how about the kids are

the, were the kids on the spectrum?

456

00:26:07,264 --> 00:26:10,644

Because I, where I'm going with that

is, , I hear Talia and I are, we're, we're

457

00:26:10,644 --> 00:26:12,524

throwing our heart and souls into this.

458

00:26:12,524 --> 00:26:17,094

We, we believe in this, strongly

believe in this, and, and that's a

459

00:26:17,094 --> 00:26:19,674

whole other, I mean, this is where

Big Winter spent hours, right?

460

00:26:20,424 --> 00:26:24,084

But our kids look at us and they say,

okay, dad, why do you have laser eyes?

461

00:26:24,804 --> 00:26:27,694

You know, you're, you're going to your

little cult and you know, they, and they,

462

00:26:27,704 --> 00:26:28,924

they make all the comparisons, right?

463

00:26:28,924 --> 00:26:30,934

You're, I mean, just so many comparisons.

464

00:26:30,934 --> 00:26:35,244

So I'm curious from, from a schooling

standpoint, but also from a Bitcoin

465

00:26:35,254 --> 00:26:37,564

standpoint, where, where are you

guys as a family and how are you

466

00:26:37,564 --> 00:26:40,114

guys handling the subject of money?

467

00:26:40,195 --> 00:26:45,374

And freedom and the, the things Daniel,

that you would talk for hours on your

468

00:26:45,384 --> 00:26:48,054

podcast about how do you, how do you

handle those in the, in the house?

469

00:26:50,059 --> 00:26:51,799

Prince: Well, it gets

talked about all the time.

470

00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,939

So, um, they, they

certainly know about it.

471

00:26:55,499 --> 00:26:59,429

Um, because, because, because

Bitcoin fixes everything.

472

00:26:59,449 --> 00:26:59,899

Yeah.

473

00:27:00,289 --> 00:27:02,519

That, that, that sentence comes up a lot.

474

00:27:03,899 --> 00:27:05,479

Lots of debates about that in the kitchen.

475

00:27:05,789 --> 00:27:06,599

Chicken in the fridge.

476

00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:09,309

Oh, Bitcoin fixes this.

477

00:27:09,989 --> 00:27:16,209

Um, but, um, yeah, uh,

all of them understand.

478

00:27:18,429 --> 00:27:22,589

Again, the concept of it, how it works,

we don't know how deeply, they don't

479

00:27:22,589 --> 00:27:30,759

know the technicalities of it, but they

understand deeply and much more than

480

00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:37,109

probably another kid, even our 18 year

olds age, they understand inflation and

481

00:27:37,139 --> 00:27:39,999

why the world is in such a state now.

482

00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:43,849

They understand it's not

just because the pandemic.

483

00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:50,959

Um, and, um, they, they understand

that it's printing money that, uh, or

484

00:27:50,979 --> 00:27:58,499

fiat money, uh, uh, they've read a few

books that are more to their level.

485

00:27:58,909 --> 00:27:59,659

Played Hoddle Up.

486

00:27:59,660 --> 00:28:00,819

Played Hoddle

487

00:28:01,144 --> 00:28:02,064

Scott: Oh, nice.

488

00:28:02,344 --> 00:28:02,684

Nice.

489

00:28:02,684 --> 00:28:03,044

Yeah, that's

490

00:28:03,044 --> 00:28:03,254

right.

491

00:28:03,254 --> 00:28:04,294

I forgot about

492

00:28:04,489 --> 00:28:05,029

Prince: read that.

493

00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:06,069

Yeah.

494

00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:16,829

Um, uh, our older daughter, she went to

school, um, and has much more of, um.

495

00:28:17,339 --> 00:28:22,159

I'd say probably different views

to the rest of us a bit more

496

00:28:22,169 --> 00:28:25,799

so she has more of a outsidely.

497

00:28:26,209 --> 00:28:30,039

Well, yeah, she's but she still

understands Bitcoin and still

498

00:28:30,659 --> 00:28:33,889

comes back to it quite often

talks to her friends about it.

499

00:28:35,249 --> 00:28:37,229

It's interesting to see how they're going.

500

00:28:38,129 --> 00:28:39,709

They're going to be pulled

in different directions.

501

00:28:40,284 --> 00:28:43,684

And this is, as we know, what

Bitcoin does to you, right?

502

00:28:43,684 --> 00:28:48,184

It's going to find that thing within

you that resonates with you the most.

503

00:28:48,184 --> 00:28:51,664

And then you're going to apply your

time and effort to that specific.

504

00:28:51,884 --> 00:28:53,874

So for you guys, it's

Bitcoin and homeschooling.

505

00:28:53,904 --> 00:28:56,664

You know, I absolutely 100

percent agree with you.

506

00:28:56,664 --> 00:28:59,054

If you separate education

from state, you will separate.

507

00:28:59,329 --> 00:29:00,979

Money from state and vice versa.

508

00:29:01,029 --> 00:29:04,179

And as you said, Scott, Bitcoin is a

homeschoolers that just don't know it yet.

509

00:29:04,589 --> 00:29:06,699

And homeschoolers are Bitcoiners

that just don't know it.

510

00:29:06,809 --> 00:29:08,869

That's, that's just 100 percent true.

511

00:29:09,649 --> 00:29:10,779

But what's going to bring them in?

512

00:29:10,879 --> 00:29:11,939

You know, what will it be?

513

00:29:11,939 --> 00:29:13,329

And what will it be for our kids?

514

00:29:13,329 --> 00:29:17,479

And having the kids with us at, uh, at

some of the conferences, getting them

515

00:29:17,479 --> 00:29:25,144

exposed to The, the talks, the panels,

the, um, the booths, the work that's been

516

00:29:25,144 --> 00:29:29,504

going on, Caitlin currently, she's 18.

517

00:29:29,514 --> 00:29:34,684

She's just had a chat with Alex Gladstein

and CK from Human Rights Foundation.

518

00:29:34,684 --> 00:29:38,894

So she's looking into the, can I

do some kind of internship because

519

00:29:39,054 --> 00:29:41,024

it's international relations.

520

00:29:41,489 --> 00:29:43,009

That's pulling her into this thing.

521

00:29:43,009 --> 00:29:47,739

So right, where, where can, who

in my network do I need to put in

522

00:29:47,739 --> 00:29:49,149

the way of you on your journey?

523

00:29:49,149 --> 00:29:54,859

And, and Sophia, she met Rachel

actually in Germany, uh, just four or

524

00:29:54,859 --> 00:29:57,399

five weeks ago at, um, at an event.

525

00:29:57,679 --> 00:30:01,069

And, uh, Rachel's put him on this

event in January and Rachel invited

526

00:30:01,069 --> 00:30:05,839

Sophia to come and speak on a panel

about what's it like to be a teenage.

527

00:30:07,809 --> 00:30:08,899

Surrounded by Bitcoin.

528

00:30:08,939 --> 00:30:10,749

Surrounded by Bitcoin stuff.

529

00:30:10,819 --> 00:30:12,139

How's it shaping your mind?

530

00:30:12,499 --> 00:30:16,049

So, goodness knows where she's

going to get pulled into.

531

00:30:16,769 --> 00:30:19,429

Claire's going to start

resonating with um, you know,

532

00:30:19,429 --> 00:30:20,929

is it the human rights aspect?

533

00:30:21,289 --> 00:30:24,419

Is it getting more For me,

that's what interests me more.

534

00:30:24,949 --> 00:30:26,589

The humanitarian side of it all.

535

00:30:27,589 --> 00:30:30,539

But then someone like My son,

he just loves the gaming.

536

00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:30,989

He's like, what?

537

00:30:31,169 --> 00:30:33,269

You can win sats playing

Pac Man and stuff?

538

00:30:33,369 --> 00:30:34,539

Okay, let's get into that.

539

00:30:34,829 --> 00:30:36,509

Lauren does the show with me.

540

00:30:36,509 --> 00:30:38,959

So she's interviewed, goodness

knows how many people.

541

00:30:38,969 --> 00:30:40,239

She just likes talking to people.

542

00:30:40,309 --> 00:30:42,179

Yeah, she loves the conversation of it.

543

00:30:42,209 --> 00:30:45,869

And just like sits there and

gets truth bombed every episode.

544

00:30:45,879 --> 00:30:47,269

She's like, oh.

545

00:30:47,469 --> 00:30:50,789

So one day, I guarantee you one day

she'll be 15 or 16 and she'll just

546

00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:52,529

start coming out with all of this stuff.

547

00:30:52,999 --> 00:30:54,019

But where's it going to take her?

548

00:30:54,029 --> 00:30:55,899

You know, it's going

to be amazing to watch.

549

00:30:57,069 --> 00:30:58,029

Scott: Well, I mean, good for you guys.

550

00:30:58,029 --> 00:31:00,029

I mean, this is something

that's on our mind too.

551

00:31:00,029 --> 00:31:03,789

We've cleared it so, you know, so Tali

and I earlier this year went to a couple

552

00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:09,119

of homeschooling conferences and tried to

pitch Bitcoin to homeschoolers and it was

553

00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:12,669

an uphill to say it nicely and uphill.

554

00:31:13,244 --> 00:31:16,064

Time, like it was, it was, it was

a very frustrating experience.

555

00:31:16,074 --> 00:31:19,184

So I think we'll get there eventually.

556

00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:23,884

And, and it's, and, and the reason I asked

that question is we're, we're trying to

557

00:31:23,884 --> 00:31:26,144

not only, I mean, we want our own family.

558

00:31:26,144 --> 00:31:29,774

We want our own kids to understand this

and say, look, we have this insight.

559

00:31:30,634 --> 00:31:31,644

We want to share this with you.

560

00:31:31,644 --> 00:31:34,644

You guys can, you have the benefit of,

you have the whole life in front of you.

561

00:31:34,644 --> 00:31:36,984

We're, we're learning this much later.

562

00:31:37,924 --> 00:31:41,324

And even within our own family,

we're, we're finding that it's not.

563

00:31:41,345 --> 00:31:44,624

Uh, it's not that simple and it's

certainly not one conversation.

564

00:31:44,714 --> 00:31:46,904

You know, it's not one

game, one book, one podcast.

565

00:31:46,914 --> 00:31:49,774

It's, it's this consistent thing.

566

00:31:49,814 --> 00:31:54,224

And the number of times I mentioned

low time preference or fiat money or

567

00:31:54,224 --> 00:31:56,944

something else like that, the kids just

roll their eyes and they're like, okay,

568

00:31:56,944 --> 00:31:58,774

dad, we don't need another lecture.

569

00:31:58,914 --> 00:32:02,494

But I'm thinking like these

are like understanding money,

570

00:32:02,504 --> 00:32:04,044

the, the time preference thing.

571

00:32:04,114 --> 00:32:07,114

I mean, you guys talked

about, um, was it meditation?

572

00:32:07,114 --> 00:32:08,344

I think lowering your stress.

573

00:32:08,374 --> 00:32:09,924

You guys, you actually talked about that.

574

00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:13,689

Those are, those concepts of taking

care of your body for the long

575

00:32:13,689 --> 00:32:17,319

term and, and doing those things,

they're, they're all tied together.

576

00:32:17,389 --> 00:32:21,639

All these concepts, like they build on

each other and it's like, well guys, this

577

00:32:21,639 --> 00:32:24,999

can really, really impact you for the

better, your success, your happiness.

578

00:32:25,849 --> 00:32:28,979

And sometimes they just,

they're not ready to hear it.

579

00:32:29,439 --> 00:32:34,819

At least that's my, my take on it is

like, why, why can't I get you guys to?

580

00:32:35,354 --> 00:32:40,064

See all the things that I'm seeing

and I'm trying to, I'm, I'm trying

581

00:32:40,064 --> 00:32:42,244

to be more understanding of what's

their point of view and how do

582

00:32:42,244 --> 00:32:44,184

we reach, how do we reach them?

583

00:32:44,194 --> 00:32:47,334

I mean, Tali's teaching me that

I, that I don't communicate well

584

00:32:47,334 --> 00:32:50,294

with women evidently because

we speak like men on podcasts.

585

00:32:51,244 --> 00:32:51,864

I'm like, okay.

586

00:32:52,524 --> 00:32:56,754

So we had, um, so she's exploring that

and she's, she's, she's growing that, but

587

00:32:56,764 --> 00:33:01,054

that's the reason I ask is because you're,

you're teaching your kids your values.

588

00:33:01,054 --> 00:33:03,254

You're teaching them the things from.

589

00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,739

A normal traditional school, like a

traditional curriculum, but then there's

590

00:33:08,739 --> 00:33:12,809

this whole suite of new things that we're

into with Bitcoin with what is money

591

00:33:13,179 --> 00:33:15,139

Austrian economics, lower time preference.

592

00:33:15,139 --> 00:33:17,349

I mean, if you want to get into

the humanitarian rights and things

593

00:33:17,349 --> 00:33:21,709

like that, I mean, there's so much

to get into there than the diet and

594

00:33:21,709 --> 00:33:22,859

what we're being told with the diet.

595

00:33:22,889 --> 00:33:26,609

Well, I want our kids to how do you teach

your kids what's right to eat and not eat?

596

00:33:27,449 --> 00:33:31,539

You want to talk about influences like

we teach our kids this and then our

597

00:33:31,539 --> 00:33:35,179

sons will go out and they'll come back

with McDonald's bags and pizza bags

598

00:33:35,179 --> 00:33:39,019

and or boxes or whatever and we're

like, wait a minute, like, didn't

599

00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:41,399

we like, what are you doing anyway?

600

00:33:42,724 --> 00:33:44,284

Tali: I'm gonna add my two cents in here.

601

00:33:44,334 --> 00:33:50,164

I think one of the biggest rewards that

we have as homeschoolers is we teach

602

00:33:50,194 --> 00:33:54,394

kids to think critically and they're

not just being spoon fed like they're,

603

00:33:54,424 --> 00:33:58,974

sitting in rows and like cattle,

just being, being spoon fed stuff.

604

00:33:59,194 --> 00:34:03,144

And so we teach them to think critically

and we, because we're new to the

605

00:34:03,144 --> 00:34:07,984

homeschooling and that's, sorry, because

we're new to the Bitcoin space and our

606

00:34:07,984 --> 00:34:11,264

kids were brought up in the traditional

way as Daniel, you were mentioning

607

00:34:11,313 --> 00:34:14,924

before, we only told them what we knew

and what we knew was the traditional

608

00:34:14,924 --> 00:34:16,623

stuff like the traditional finance.

609

00:34:16,623 --> 00:34:20,464

And, you know, you go, you get

good, get good grades, you get a

610

00:34:20,464 --> 00:34:24,204

good education, you get a good job,

you climb the corporate ladder.

611

00:34:24,224 --> 00:34:25,194

That's what we knew.

612

00:34:25,704 --> 00:34:29,884

Before we enter the Bitcoin space, we

didn't question our understanding of the

613

00:34:29,934 --> 00:34:33,583

how, how the world worked and how money

worked, because we thought we knew it.

614

00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:34,829

The correct way.

615

00:34:35,059 --> 00:34:36,799

That was the way we train up our kids.

616

00:34:37,389 --> 00:34:42,109

And so suddenly we come across this

Bitcoin thing and our mind is blown.

617

00:34:42,859 --> 00:34:45,268

But our kids didn't have that need yet.

618

00:34:45,289 --> 00:34:48,559

You know, we found Bitcoin

out of our need for it.

619

00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:51,379

I think everybody has to come to

Bitcoin with some type of need.

620

00:34:51,629 --> 00:34:53,139

And it could be humanitarian.

621

00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:53,998

It could be something else.

622

00:34:54,018 --> 00:34:57,049

But everybody had a need and

Bitcoin became the solution.

623

00:34:57,069 --> 00:34:59,779

And so our kids, they haven't

come across that need yet.

624

00:35:00,069 --> 00:35:02,669

And so they see us suddenly change.

625

00:35:03,089 --> 00:35:09,479

And Our 16 year old, his favorite,

um, retort to me or us telling

626

00:35:09,479 --> 00:35:12,209

him about Bitcoin is, Mom,

627

00:35:13,264 --> 00:35:13,424

Scott: well

628

00:35:13,429 --> 00:35:16,899

Tali: mostly mom because he was

always working, Mom, you taught me

629

00:35:17,369 --> 00:35:19,619

to not accept things that face value.

630

00:35:20,019 --> 00:35:22,239

You taught me to question.

631

00:35:22,319 --> 00:35:24,209

And I'm like, you're not supposed

to question me, you're supposed

632

00:35:24,209 --> 00:35:25,099

to question other people.

633

00:35:26,829 --> 00:35:32,249

But, but, you know, I, I feel like we have

to give them room are because they're,

634

00:35:32,319 --> 00:35:37,469

they're really young adults and we've

brought them up to be critical thinkers.

635

00:35:37,479 --> 00:35:40,219

And eventually they will,

their paths will lead there.

636

00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,209

But if we're shoving it in their

face all the time, it's just like

637

00:35:43,209 --> 00:35:47,679

any other family and members or

friends that we want to say, Hey,

638

00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:50,599

you're Can I please tell you about

this incredible thing called Bitcoin?

639

00:35:50,609 --> 00:35:51,129

They'll be like,

640

00:35:52,309 --> 00:35:52,449

Scott: You're

641

00:35:52,459 --> 00:35:53,299

Tali: crazy and weird.

642

00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:56,519

You know, our kids are

looking at us the same way.

643

00:35:56,994 --> 00:35:57,714

Prince: totally agree.

644

00:35:57,734 --> 00:36:00,654

The critical thinking I think is

the most important thing and being

645

00:36:00,654 --> 00:36:03,864

able to make their own decisions,

look into things themselves.

646

00:36:04,484 --> 00:36:06,524

not take everything at face value.

647

00:36:07,354 --> 00:36:11,904

But, um, yeah, we get, we totally

get the eye rolls all the time.

648

00:36:11,924 --> 00:36:14,214

I like, oh, that's talking Bitcoin again.

649

00:36:14,924 --> 00:36:19,464

But it's interesting when you

sometimes hear your children talking

650

00:36:19,464 --> 00:36:24,224

to kids their own age that have

nothing to do with Bitcoin, and

651

00:36:24,224 --> 00:36:25,814

then trying to explain it to them.

652

00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:31,014

And you like why it's important

and, and all these things.

653

00:36:31,024 --> 00:36:34,399

They're like, huh, They, they did listen.

654

00:36:34,399 --> 00:36:35,459

They do get it.

655

00:36:35,839 --> 00:36:40,039

And, uh, I suppose, like you

say, they have to make, they

656

00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:41,879

have to make their own decisions.

657

00:36:41,879 --> 00:36:45,789

And, you know, I don't know

how many times in my life, my

658

00:36:45,789 --> 00:36:48,779

opinions and things have changed.

659

00:36:49,149 --> 00:36:53,749

And I've completely pivoted on

some things that I thought were.

660

00:36:54,859 --> 00:37:00,819

I was really set on, um, before, but,

um, I suppose, uh, that's one of our

661

00:37:00,819 --> 00:37:05,129

biggest goals is to make sure they're

always learning always that, you know,

662

00:37:05,129 --> 00:37:10,225

you don't stop learning at 18 or in the

early 20s when you finish university,

663

00:37:10,225 --> 00:37:14,899

because we're still learning now,

but we could really, when we were

664

00:37:14,929 --> 00:37:16,859

our kids at school could really see.

665

00:37:17,724 --> 00:37:26,991

The love of learning disappearing, like

they just were so bored by, yeah, and I

666

00:37:26,991 --> 00:37:33,634

would say as well, it's a classic cliche,

uh, action speak louder than words.

667

00:37:33,954 --> 00:37:39,914

And in 18 months, when you guys are

still doing this podcast, and you've.

668

00:37:40,169 --> 00:37:43,009

Still you're still designing games.

669

00:37:43,049 --> 00:37:45,819

I mean the thing is you always

still you've got that game, right?

670

00:37:45,859 --> 00:37:49,299

That's there that's out There it's

going to keep selling people are

671

00:37:49,299 --> 00:37:53,779

going to carry on asking, you know How

to play it and whatever else you're

672

00:37:53,779 --> 00:37:55,189

going to keep going to conferences.

673

00:37:55,689 --> 00:38:00,999

You're not going to stop what you're

doing So in 18 months, we're the critical

674

00:38:00,999 --> 00:38:04,579

mind these kids that you've brought

up that we've brought up and hopefully

675

00:38:04,579 --> 00:38:08,289

other people around Around the world

that are suffering these same problems

676

00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:14,494

18 months goes by You haven't changed,

your conviction is even stronger, your

677

00:38:14,504 --> 00:38:19,554

message is clearer, you've sharpened

your tools with delivering the messages.

678

00:38:19,854 --> 00:38:23,584

Scott can speak to women and you

know, it's going to be amazing.

679

00:38:23,585 --> 00:38:27,364

Mmm.

680

00:38:27,414 --> 00:38:30,424

Scott: Do you, um, have you talked

to your kids about university?

681

00:38:30,424 --> 00:38:32,084

Are they considering not going?

682

00:38:37,504 --> 00:38:44,134

Prince: No, this is where, like, giving

them free minds and things is the, uh,

683

00:38:44,834 --> 00:38:47,184

well, our oldest is determined to go.

684

00:38:48,664 --> 00:38:54,164

And, you know, she, she's not picking

the cheaper European universities.

685

00:38:54,174 --> 00:38:58,334

She's trying to pick a, I mean,

it's not the U S which is picking

686

00:38:58,334 --> 00:38:59,834

the UK, which isn't cheap.

687

00:39:00,654 --> 00:39:08,694

Um, Sophia, um, doesn't know at

all what she wants to do, but

688

00:39:09,114 --> 00:39:11,984

she still feels the pressure, I

suppose, because the age she is.

689

00:39:12,514 --> 00:39:17,544

And all the other kids are looking

or working towards university.

690

00:39:18,144 --> 00:39:20,834

So the word comes up quite a lot from her.

691

00:39:21,494 --> 00:39:28,404

But she is much more open to learning a

vocation rather than going to university.

692

00:39:28,664 --> 00:39:29,014

Yeah,

693

00:39:29,114 --> 00:39:29,544

Scott: be part of the

694

00:39:29,804 --> 00:39:33,074

this might be the unprogramming

Daniel, you're referring to because

695

00:39:33,094 --> 00:39:35,334

Tali and I met in grad school, right?

696

00:39:35,344 --> 00:39:39,464

And then our, both of our sons, like,

so both of our girls say, okay, we're

697

00:39:39,464 --> 00:39:42,804

going to go to school and we're like,

yeah, we'll support you and all that.

698

00:39:42,804 --> 00:39:45,754

But both of our boys are like,

we don't really want to do that.

699

00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:49,989

And here, and with all the things that

we've learned over the last couple

700

00:39:49,989 --> 00:39:55,099

of years of studying Bitcoin, like

we were like, yeah, you know, this is

701

00:39:55,099 --> 00:39:59,709

not, we, we can't even, we can't say,

here's why you really should do this.

702

00:40:00,339 --> 00:40:04,479

You know, you should spend a lot of money

to go be indoctrinated and do whatever.

703

00:40:05,169 --> 00:40:08,279

And, and now it's kind of like

unprogrammed in our part and.

704

00:40:09,104 --> 00:40:12,514

Now we're back to our families because

now we're, you know, we're 20 some years

705

00:40:12,514 --> 00:40:15,144

into this thing and we're like, what

are your, what are your kids doing?

706

00:40:15,424 --> 00:40:17,494

Well, the, the boys have

decided to drop out.

707

00:40:17,804 --> 00:40:20,174

And they're looking at our families

are looking at us like, well,

708

00:40:20,174 --> 00:40:21,034

what are you gonna do about that?

709

00:40:21,804 --> 00:40:24,234

Like, well, we, we support

them a hundred percent.

710

00:40:25,204 --> 00:40:29,599

Um, It's been, it's been a, it's a, it's

kind of our, one of our current learnings

711

00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:34,024

that Tali and I are going through is,

is how to have this conversation with

712

00:40:34,094 --> 00:40:39,234

what do you think of formal university

schooling after all that we've

713

00:40:39,234 --> 00:40:42,974

learned through the Bitcoin and what's

going on with, with fiat education.

714

00:40:43,144 --> 00:40:46,754

So that's the reason I asked, um, looked

like I may have hit a sore spot for you.

715

00:40:46,754 --> 00:40:47,444

I was like, Oh,

716

00:40:47,744 --> 00:40:48,384

Prince: Yeah.

717

00:40:48,474 --> 00:40:48,814

No.

718

00:40:49,314 --> 00:40:55,354

Well, for me it is, because I, I, I

don't want them to, to, to go and be

719

00:40:55,354 --> 00:40:57,824

indoctrinated and be forced into debt.

720

00:40:57,864 --> 00:40:58,964

It makes no sense.

721

00:40:59,284 --> 00:40:59,534

Yeah.

722

00:40:59,534 --> 00:41:01,814

For me it's the unnecessary debt.

723

00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:03,414

I don't, I don't know.

724

00:41:03,414 --> 00:41:10,824

I think they're open minded enough

to, to see for themselves when

725

00:41:10,824 --> 00:41:12,514

they're being indoctrinated hopefully.

726

00:41:12,514 --> 00:41:12,944

But it's.

727

00:41:13,394 --> 00:41:14,624

It's the unnecessary debt.

728

00:41:15,344 --> 00:41:18,504

And I just hope, it's that, it's

that framing as well, Scott, you

729

00:41:18,504 --> 00:41:22,844

know, that that is a sign of that,

that word, that term dropout.

730

00:41:23,914 --> 00:41:24,584

Dropped out.

731

00:41:24,974 --> 00:41:26,824

It should be opted out.

732

00:41:26,874 --> 00:41:31,894

No, they are opting out of that because

it is a choice and is empowering.

733

00:41:32,004 --> 00:41:36,084

But somehow it's been turned upside

down to make you look weak and an

734

00:41:36,084 --> 00:41:39,554

undesirable human being because

you dropped out of college or you

735

00:41:39,554 --> 00:41:41,074

dropped out of school or whatever.

736

00:41:41,519 --> 00:41:46,059

So what we try and, uh, well, I, I

certainly hope many people around the

737

00:41:46,059 --> 00:41:47,829

world understand you have a choice.

738

00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:52,739

You can't opt out and that just

reframing that language empowers you.

739

00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:59,049

And, um, I hope that Caitlin, it looks

as though she, she will go to college.

740

00:41:59,399 --> 00:42:05,999

But if she gets the opportunity to intern

at incredible organizations before she

741

00:42:05,999 --> 00:42:11,839

goes and being surrounded by incredible,

inspiring people, then when they get

742

00:42:11,849 --> 00:42:16,089

there, like you've experienced, uh, and

other homeschoolers have experienced,

743

00:42:16,129 --> 00:42:21,649

they get there and they look around at

their classmates and they're like, Really?

744

00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:24,039

We're talking about the

current thing all the time?

745

00:42:26,209 --> 00:42:26,669

Tali: That's it.

746

00:42:26,679 --> 00:42:28,849

That's exactly what our

girls are telling us.

747

00:42:29,179 --> 00:42:32,599

And, um, it's kind of like that,

uh, you know, I don't know what

748

00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:35,379

your faith background is, but a

lot of Christian parents are very,

749

00:42:35,499 --> 00:42:40,689

very afraid of letting their kids

go out and be ruined by the world.

750

00:42:41,209 --> 00:42:45,279

And we, I actually told the kids when

they were in high school, when you

751

00:42:45,279 --> 00:42:49,249

graduate, you're going overseas because

you need to see how big the world is.

752

00:42:49,664 --> 00:42:50,204

Scott: And

753

00:42:50,464 --> 00:42:54,384

Tali: My, my peers, my, the moms

were like, Oh my God, what are

754

00:42:54,384 --> 00:42:55,584

they going to be exposed to?

755

00:42:55,894 --> 00:42:59,354

I'm like, whatever it is, they

have to choose their own belief.

756

00:42:59,354 --> 00:43:02,384

They grew up under our belief

system, but they need to choose.

757

00:43:02,714 --> 00:43:07,184

And so the, my, our kids went out

and came back with stronger faith

758

00:43:07,214 --> 00:43:08,884

because they didn't like what they saw.

759

00:43:09,264 --> 00:43:12,824

And the same thing is happening at the

universities that our girls are attending.

760

00:43:12,824 --> 00:43:15,334

And actually all four of our

kids went to school and to.

761

00:43:15,889 --> 00:43:16,999

Opt it out afterwards.

762

00:43:17,289 --> 00:43:19,239

But now they know where they stand.

763

00:43:19,429 --> 00:43:20,309

So it's okay.

764

00:43:20,319 --> 00:43:24,659

Even if like your girls, if they go to

college and they look around and go,

765

00:43:25,579 --> 00:43:27,529

this is it, this is all there is to it.

766

00:43:27,529 --> 00:43:28,449

And then opt out.

767

00:43:28,759 --> 00:43:30,719

Now their conviction is even stronger.

768

00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,519

So I actually I'm in favor of letting

them go out there and make their mistakes.

769

00:43:35,909 --> 00:43:36,489

Prince: Yeah, me too.

770

00:43:36,499 --> 00:43:36,509

I

771

00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:36,969

Tali: Yeah.

772

00:43:37,329 --> 00:43:39,489

Prince: think it's how you

learn as well, yourself.

773

00:43:40,269 --> 00:43:42,599

If they get there and think,

right, this isn't for me, that's

774

00:43:42,609 --> 00:43:44,009

for them to have made that choice.

775

00:43:44,169 --> 00:43:47,959

But um, and our oldest at

the moment she's in Thailand.

776

00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:48,259

Yeah.

777

00:43:48,259 --> 00:43:49,879

Traveling with her friends.

778

00:43:49,879 --> 00:43:50,779

There's three of them.

779

00:43:50,779 --> 00:43:52,759

They've gone out there, they've

been gone for a month already.

780

00:43:52,764 --> 00:43:55,819

And then they'll be gone

at least until March.

781

00:43:55,909 --> 00:43:58,129

Uh, in, in Thailand and Southeast Asia.

782

00:43:58,399 --> 00:44:00,469

Going out and seeing the

world and making mistakes.

783

00:44:00,739 --> 00:44:01,909

We've already missed one flight.

784

00:44:02,149 --> 00:44:03,004

We already missed a flight.

785

00:44:03,319 --> 00:44:07,159

Already made a reservation

for the wrong like day.

786

00:44:07,159 --> 00:44:07,219

Yeah.

787

00:44:07,324 --> 00:44:08,204

Already over time zone.

788

00:44:08,479 --> 00:44:11,204

Already screwed the time zone

up and overpaid for an Airbnb.

789

00:44:11,864 --> 00:44:12,084

Yes.

790

00:44:12,449 --> 00:44:13,839

Scott: If that's how you

learn though, you're right.

791

00:44:13,899 --> 00:44:17,959

I mean now You you know sitting down

and telling someone how time zones

792

00:44:17,959 --> 00:44:21,729

work is not the same as actually

messing up And and having to pay

793

00:44:22,145 --> 00:44:23,734

Um, with the frustration, the

794

00:44:23,739 --> 00:44:24,789

Prince: Having to pay twice

795

00:44:24,804 --> 00:44:25,414

Scott: pay twice.

796

00:44:25,464 --> 00:44:28,534

I mean, that's, that's

a real education there.

797

00:44:28,674 --> 00:44:29,454

Um, missing a

798

00:44:29,499 --> 00:44:31,399

Prince: when money, when money's tight

799

00:44:32,204 --> 00:44:32,454

Scott: yeah.

800

00:44:34,244 --> 00:44:38,654

So, um, so one of the things that was

on my mind, um, going back a little

801

00:44:38,654 --> 00:44:42,004

bit to the, the people who are just

starting thinking of like some of the

802

00:44:42,004 --> 00:44:45,904

folks who'd be listening to this, the,

they might look at that and they say,

803

00:44:45,904 --> 00:44:49,394

okay, well, the world changed though,

because you guys started world schooling.

804

00:44:49,919 --> 00:44:50,739

Before COVID

805

00:44:51,699 --> 00:44:51,709

Prince: hmm.

806

00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:52,159

Mm hmm.

807

00:44:52,429 --> 00:44:56,769

Scott: in some countries like

Germany, you can't homeschool, right?

808

00:44:56,769 --> 00:45:02,189

It's not even an option in the U

S the, the impact of COVID really

809

00:45:02,189 --> 00:45:06,019

opened a lot of eyes for parents

and it actually helped fuel.

810

00:45:06,619 --> 00:45:10,109

The homeschooling movement, and there were

a lot of people brought in because they're

811

00:45:10,109 --> 00:45:13,939

like, what, like they, they realized

like it was, they weren't getting what

812

00:45:13,939 --> 00:45:17,849

they, they thought they were getting,

uh, or they were getting extra things

813

00:45:17,849 --> 00:45:19,579

that they didn't want, uh, in there.

814

00:45:19,579 --> 00:45:24,599

So things, for example, that might change

for, um, uh, a young family would be,

815

00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:26,179

you guys did a lot of home swapping.

816

00:45:26,589 --> 00:45:31,899

There are a lot of young couples now that

might be forced to rent just because the,

817

00:45:32,089 --> 00:45:34,149

where we are in the, in the fiat cycle.

818

00:45:35,344 --> 00:45:38,584

So what I'm saying with that is some

things have changed and I'm just

819

00:45:38,584 --> 00:45:42,364

curious, like if you're, for the people

listening now, if you were sitting down

820

00:45:42,364 --> 00:45:46,484

with one of those young couples, what

would have, what would you say to them?

821

00:45:46,494 --> 00:45:50,614

Would anything change from what you,

what you captured in your, in your book?

822

00:45:50,624 --> 00:45:53,604

Because I know you guys put a

lot of thought into that, but the

823

00:45:53,604 --> 00:45:57,394

world's changed quite a bit in

the last five, seven years, right?

824

00:45:57,394 --> 00:46:00,494

So I just want to just ask you

to reflect a little bit on that.

825

00:46:00,494 --> 00:46:03,674

Is there anything that

you would, um, You say

826

00:46:03,899 --> 00:46:08,729

Prince: Well, when we were, when we were

traveling, we did decide at one stage

827

00:46:08,729 --> 00:46:12,169

to stop in France because we wanted our

children to learn a second language.

828

00:46:13,029 --> 00:46:17,559

So they did go to school for a little

while to, to, to use the language and

829

00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:22,489

during COVID we decided to take them

out of school, which, like you said,

830

00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:27,089

so many people decided to take the

children out of school in France too.

831

00:46:27,089 --> 00:46:33,509

They saw, um, the state education wasn't

quite what they wanted anymore, but

832

00:46:33,609 --> 00:46:36,269

since then France has changed the laws.

833

00:46:36,894 --> 00:46:42,764

Uh, well, interestingly enough, late

2020, after the, the first lockdown,

834

00:46:43,414 --> 00:46:46,644

uh, they decided to change the

homeschooling laws, so it's, it's

835

00:46:46,654 --> 00:46:49,694

really hard to homeschool in France now.

836

00:46:50,084 --> 00:46:55,154

And I'm seeing so, so many European

countries, especially Western

837

00:46:55,594 --> 00:47:00,374

European countries, are, um,

making it harder for the parents.

838

00:47:00,374 --> 00:47:04,364

The, the hoops you have to jump

through makes it really, really hard.

839

00:47:04,374 --> 00:47:04,714

The paperwork.

840

00:47:05,465 --> 00:47:10,004

the assessments for the children.

841

00:47:10,624 --> 00:47:16,484

And for example, in France, when you

homeschool, you have to teach the state

842

00:47:16,514 --> 00:47:21,484

education to your children, which for me,

that's not the point of homeschooling.

843

00:47:21,494 --> 00:47:28,554

So, um, so if For me, it's a lot easier

to drop my children at school at eight

844

00:47:28,554 --> 00:47:31,564

o'clock in the morning and pick them up

at four o'clock in the afternoon than

845

00:47:31,574 --> 00:47:35,984

to have them at home if I was going to

have them learn the state education.

846

00:47:36,474 --> 00:47:40,034

So why would I teach them

that at home all day?

847

00:47:40,454 --> 00:47:48,274

Um, so, uh, yeah, it, I, it, it's,

it's much more difficult, I'd say now

848

00:47:48,274 --> 00:47:57,234

you've really got to, and, um, yeah,

as, as a parent, I'd say that to another

849

00:47:57,534 --> 00:48:05,784

homeschooling parent is that I constantly

have doubts in what I'm doing all the time

850

00:48:05,784 --> 00:48:10,014

and reassess things and I, but I think

I would do that if they were at school.

851

00:48:10,479 --> 00:48:12,919

You know, if, if they're at

school, I'd always be thinking,

852

00:48:12,919 --> 00:48:13,889

am I doing the right thing?

853

00:48:13,889 --> 00:48:14,869

Are they in the right school?

854

00:48:14,869 --> 00:48:20,029

Is everything working, but we always

doing that, uh, the kids is this working.

855

00:48:20,029 --> 00:48:24,579

And, you know, I suppose it's about

being adaptable to everything and the

856

00:48:24,579 --> 00:48:26,129

children, because they're also different.

857

00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:27,883

And

858

00:48:28,154 --> 00:48:32,794

Scott: these the fight you stage is

scary with the you know I did I did

859

00:48:32,794 --> 00:48:36,644

not realize that the to the extent

that you're describing Like how

860

00:48:36,644 --> 00:48:38,474

much the the they're going that way.

861

00:48:38,474 --> 00:48:38,904

Sorry, Daniel.

862

00:48:38,904 --> 00:48:39,034

I didn't

863

00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:43,049

Prince: there's a lot of regular,

lot of regulatory creep, um, across

864

00:48:43,139 --> 00:48:47,359

all of, uh, of all of Europe, uh,

especially in, um, even the UK that,

865

00:48:47,469 --> 00:48:48,849

you know, it's, it's getting tighter.

866

00:48:48,849 --> 00:48:49,079

Yeah.

867

00:48:49,479 --> 00:48:52,009

It's probably one of the

freer places in Europe.

868

00:48:52,359 --> 00:48:56,679

So we were talking to the founder of a

Sudbury Valley school in, in Southeast.

869

00:48:57,744 --> 00:49:02,124

England in Kent, and she was explaining

how the regulatory creep is creeping

870

00:49:02,124 --> 00:49:07,374

up on them to the point where now they

can only accept in quote students to

871

00:49:07,379 --> 00:49:12,024

come to the, and Sudbury Valley is a

democratic style, uh, school styled after

872

00:49:12,024 --> 00:49:13,764

the Sudbury Valley School in, in the us.

873

00:49:14,294 --> 00:49:18,194

Uh, and uh, she said, yeah, we can

only have students come in between

874

00:49:18,194 --> 00:49:19,299

Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

875

00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:20,970

Uh, between 9.

876

00:49:20,970 --> 00:49:22,349

30 and 3.

877

00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:27,619

30, because if we have any more minutes

than that, then we are operating as a

878

00:49:27,629 --> 00:49:32,419

school, in air quotes, and we come up

under a completely different regulation.

879

00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:33,359

More of an association, I suppose.

880

00:49:33,369 --> 00:49:37,619

Yeah, so when you look at Montessori

schools, or Waldorf Steiner schools, or

881

00:49:37,619 --> 00:49:41,809

any of these other kind of alternative,

again in air quotes, schools, Uh,

882

00:49:41,989 --> 00:49:45,119

if they're working five days a week,

they're just a quasi state school

883

00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:47,429

with a kind of They are in France.

884

00:49:47,619 --> 00:49:47,919

Yeah.

885

00:49:47,919 --> 00:49:51,029

In fact, anything else just

recently closed down, I didn't

886

00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:52,379

realize, but one by one.

887

00:49:52,459 --> 00:49:53,079

Mm hmm.

888

00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:56,609

And I think it's because they're not

doing the state So they used to be kind of

889

00:49:56,609 --> 00:49:59,789

like forest schools and things here, but

they've just been regulated out of town.

890

00:50:00,424 --> 00:50:00,954

Scott: wow.

891

00:50:01,084 --> 00:50:05,874

Prince: if you are, if you're welcoming

kids into, um, an institution five

892

00:50:05,874 --> 00:50:09,424

days a week, then therefore you need

to have, it's like banking, you know,

893

00:50:09,424 --> 00:50:12,714

you can only bank if you've got a

license from the federal reserve or

894

00:50:12,734 --> 00:50:16,564

from the bank of England or whatever,

you can only school if you've got a

895

00:50:16,564 --> 00:50:19,614

license from the ministry of education.

896

00:50:19,924 --> 00:50:23,374

And if you have that license, then there

are certain things that you need to.

897

00:50:23,974 --> 00:50:29,244

Uh, adhere to and certain requirements

and regulations and so if you really

898

00:50:29,244 --> 00:50:32,854

want to be a democratic school, you're

like, no, we're not doing any of that.

899

00:50:32,854 --> 00:50:34,704

This is the whole point of this school.

900

00:50:35,054 --> 00:50:38,384

Then they start crimping the amount of

time you can actually offer to the kids.

901

00:50:38,384 --> 00:50:39,684

So this is going on

902

00:50:39,844 --> 00:50:40,454

Scott: Wow.

903

00:50:40,644 --> 00:50:43,624

So other countries that are going

the other way other countries

904

00:50:43,624 --> 00:50:45,954

that are Kind of a bastion for

905

00:50:46,234 --> 00:50:46,574

Prince: up.

906

00:50:46,674 --> 00:50:47,604

None I've seen.

907

00:50:47,964 --> 00:50:51,034

I think Eastern Europe might be easier.

908

00:50:51,124 --> 00:50:52,224

I don't know for sure.

909

00:50:52,224 --> 00:50:53,484

I know there's a lot of them.

910

00:50:54,244 --> 00:50:59,594

Homeschoolers more in, um,

Czech Republic and, um, maybe

911

00:50:59,594 --> 00:51:01,444

Bulgaria and places like that.

912

00:51:01,614 --> 00:51:04,444

But yeah, those countries, I

suppose, where they, yeah, they.

913

00:51:05,254 --> 00:51:10,094

Uh, I, I'm not sure it's a hundred

percent, but I think it's pretty much.

914

00:51:10,564 --> 00:51:12,824

You can fly under the

radar in those countries.

915

00:51:12,894 --> 00:51:18,474

But it's prohibited in places like

Sweden or Scandinavia, Netherlands,

916

00:51:18,474 --> 00:51:22,269

Germany, Very difficult in

France, very difficult in Spain,

917

00:51:22,904 --> 00:51:25,294

Scott: So maybe if you, someone wanted to

world school today, maybe they should be

918

00:51:25,294 --> 00:51:29,014

looking at Asia or some somewhere else.

919

00:51:29,019 --> 00:51:29,979

Prince: Well in Asia,

920

00:51:30,284 --> 00:51:36,034

Tali: I interviewed a homeschooler in

a Bitcoin homeschooler in Portugal,

921

00:51:36,444 --> 00:51:41,104

and she said that she pulled her

oldest one out during COVID, and she

922

00:51:41,114 --> 00:51:42,614

had a lot of trouble with paperwork.

923

00:51:42,924 --> 00:51:46,924

But then second one, because he never

went into the system, there's no problem.

924

00:51:47,334 --> 00:51:51,514

So if you move to Portugal, and you

don't enter the system at all, it's

925

00:51:51,764 --> 00:51:54,414

actually quite easy, as far as I

926

00:51:54,459 --> 00:51:57,649

Prince: Yeah, you gotta be,

you gotta be flying very low.

927

00:51:57,659 --> 00:52:00,789

It's about not being a

resident in some countries.

928

00:52:00,809 --> 00:52:02,559

Like for, France is different.

929

00:52:02,579 --> 00:52:04,649

If you're, even if you're not a resident.

930

00:52:06,154 --> 00:52:10,934

They say you have right to free

education, so you should be at school.

931

00:52:11,674 --> 00:52:15,934

Um, but places like Portugal and

Spain, I think if you've not,

932

00:52:16,512 --> 00:52:17,233

Scott: hmm.

933

00:52:17,233 --> 00:52:17,954

Mm

934

00:52:18,334 --> 00:52:18,944

Prince: registered.

935

00:52:19,124 --> 00:52:21,854

Well, it's getting into health

systems and things like that as well.

936

00:52:21,874 --> 00:52:25,334

You know, like as soon as you're in

that, that flags another bureau and

937

00:52:25,334 --> 00:52:26,874

that flags this and that flags that.

938

00:52:26,874 --> 00:52:28,924

That's where they make it difficult.

939

00:52:29,014 --> 00:52:32,134

If you look, you know,

Europe's quite socialist.

940

00:52:32,134 --> 00:52:35,664

If you wanted any child benefits or

anything like that, you don't get it if

941

00:52:35,664 --> 00:52:37,074

you don't send your children to school.

942

00:52:37,744 --> 00:52:38,734

Um, things like that.

943

00:52:39,724 --> 00:52:43,194

But to go back to your, your original

question, Scott, about, um, if

944

00:52:43,234 --> 00:52:46,264

people are thinking about doing world

schooling, what's changed and whatever,

945

00:52:46,734 --> 00:52:51,814

uh, I would say, yeah, I mean, by

and large, it's still the same.

946

00:52:51,904 --> 00:52:57,134

In fact, I would say it could even

be easier in finding accommodation

947

00:52:57,144 --> 00:52:59,284

now because things such as.

948

00:52:59,654 --> 00:53:03,914

Couch surfing and I mean, Airbnb

has bloomed in the 10 years

949

00:53:03,924 --> 00:53:05,014

since we've been doing it.

950

00:53:05,284 --> 00:53:08,834

We use home exchange and yeah, if

you do not have your own property

951

00:53:08,864 --> 00:53:11,374

to exchange, then of course,

that's a problem, but people do

952

00:53:11,614 --> 00:53:13,234

exchange their rented apartments.

953

00:53:13,414 --> 00:53:15,654

That's permission from them.

954

00:53:16,154 --> 00:53:17,344

Yeah, it's up to them to.

955

00:53:17,404 --> 00:53:17,754

Yeah.

956

00:53:18,164 --> 00:53:22,974

And I suppose it's no different

to family sitting is a big, big

957

00:53:23,354 --> 00:53:26,854

thing looking after people's pets

and pet sitting, house sitting.

958

00:53:27,094 --> 00:53:32,584

Uh, working on farms and that there's

ways you can do it, uh, Woofing, that's

959

00:53:32,614 --> 00:53:34,454

called, or there's HelpX as well.

960

00:53:34,874 --> 00:53:38,034

Uh, there are ways that you can

do it as a family, no doubt.

961

00:53:38,154 --> 00:53:44,834

Uh, there's probably less available, uh,

cheap airlines around the world these

962

00:53:44,834 --> 00:53:46,194

days because they've been squeezed.

963

00:53:46,194 --> 00:53:50,874

So maybe that price has gone up a little

bit, but, uh, I would say it'd still

964

00:53:50,874 --> 00:53:54,684

be cheaper than most people would ever.

965

00:53:54,914 --> 00:53:58,744

They don't believe you when you

tell them traveling long term is a

966

00:53:58,744 --> 00:54:02,494

cheaper way to live than just sitting

steady and still in one place.

967

00:54:02,874 --> 00:54:05,484

Uh, and any world schooler

will tell you that.

968

00:54:05,485 --> 00:54:06,804

It does sound very privileged, doesn't it?

969

00:54:06,804 --> 00:54:08,004

Yeah, it does.

970

00:54:08,344 --> 00:54:11,734

But, you know, once you, once you go

and you start moving and you start

971

00:54:11,734 --> 00:54:16,474

figuring things out and, uh, falling

into, uh, your rhythm, um, you, you

972

00:54:16,474 --> 00:54:19,634

learn all the hacks and the tricks and

the tools and what works best for you.

973

00:54:20,124 --> 00:54:26,494

Uh, it's still very doable and, uh,

honestly, I think if somebody was thinking

974

00:54:26,494 --> 00:54:30,594

about doing it, do a six weeker or

something, you know, just, just try six

975

00:54:30,594 --> 00:54:35,944

weeks somewhere, try and get a home swap

set up or a couple of home swaps set up

976

00:54:35,954 --> 00:54:40,164

or a house sit, whatever it is, and just

go for it and see what it's like and then

977

00:54:40,164 --> 00:54:41,894

come back and like, well, did that work?

978

00:54:42,314 --> 00:54:43,194

Did we enjoy it?

979

00:54:44,354 --> 00:54:46,014

We're all still breathing, right?

980

00:54:46,094 --> 00:54:49,054

And can we do this for

six months next time?

981

00:54:49,794 --> 00:54:56,149

Because the, the upside is so huge

and When you were asking us, you know,

982

00:54:56,159 --> 00:55:02,229

again, about what were family and friends

thinking on your original decision, and

983

00:55:02,229 --> 00:55:06,199

it feels to me as though still to this

day, we're judged on the original decision

984

00:55:06,209 --> 00:55:10,889

rather than the results and the kids,

which are unquestionable when you sit down

985

00:55:10,889 --> 00:55:16,019

and actually talk to them and see them and

just wonder at the different Thank you.

986

00:55:17,609 --> 00:55:22,179

experiences that they've had,

now they're bilingual, like that

987

00:55:22,179 --> 00:55:24,829

wouldn't have happened if they'd

sat in a classroom for, you know,

988

00:55:24,879 --> 00:55:26,389

goodness knows how many times a day.

989

00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,409

When our kids arrived in France, they

started learning Spanish at school at the

990

00:55:30,409 --> 00:55:35,569

same time as they were learning French,

which they hadn't, um, learned before.

991

00:55:36,269 --> 00:55:41,159

So, um, and our daughter said to us the

other day, she's been learning Spanish

992

00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:45,779

for six years and French for six years,

but she's completely bilingual in French.

993

00:55:46,374 --> 00:55:50,624

And she learned Spanish at school

through a classroom and she's

994

00:55:50,624 --> 00:55:52,994

like, I can't speak Spanish.

995

00:55:52,994 --> 00:55:57,484

I've learned it for seven years,

but, um, yeah, so it just shows you

996

00:55:57,484 --> 00:55:58,764

the difference between immersion.

997

00:55:59,459 --> 00:56:00,929

And classroom learning.

998

00:56:01,494 --> 00:56:01,814

Scott: Yeah.

999

00:56:01,814 --> 00:56:02,504

A hundred percent.

1000

00:56:02,544 --> 00:56:03,514

That's a great example.

1001

00:56:03,834 --> 00:56:04,084

Yeah.

1002

00:56:04,084 --> 00:56:07,844

I know everything you're saying by

both of you that it's worth it, right?

1003

00:56:07,844 --> 00:56:12,574

There's, there's a lot of, this is going

to take some work and, but it's worth it.

1004

00:56:13,044 --> 00:56:17,274

The relationship with your kids, what the

experiences that they're going to develop

1005

00:56:17,294 --> 00:56:21,524

their frameworks for life, the experiences

that are just going to help shape them,

1006

00:56:21,534 --> 00:56:26,034

that it's, it's worth it fighting the

bureaucracy and the paperwork and.

1007

00:56:26,644 --> 00:56:28,804

Um, whatever else that you

have to, you have to deal

1008

00:56:28,879 --> 00:56:29,209

Prince: Yep.

1009

00:56:29,309 --> 00:56:30,519

It's exactly what you said earlier.

1010

00:56:30,739 --> 00:56:33,439

You've got this one

limited time with them.

1011

00:56:33,709 --> 00:56:38,219

They're only young for so long,

and then they'll have their own

1012

00:56:38,779 --> 00:56:40,379

lives and their own projects.

1013

00:56:40,409 --> 00:56:43,719

And, and obviously

they'll go and come back.

1014

00:56:43,729 --> 00:56:48,564

Well, they're still family, but

Um, it's, it's such a limited

1015

00:56:48,564 --> 00:56:50,014

time, there's only this one time

1016

00:56:52,344 --> 00:56:52,634

Scott: right,

1017

00:56:52,844 --> 00:56:53,324

Prince: it work.

1018

00:56:54,164 --> 00:56:58,334

Tali: I just have one quick one more

question, which is for your older kids.

1019

00:56:58,374 --> 00:57:01,524

Do they talk about whether or not

they're also looking to homeschool?

1020

00:57:02,739 --> 00:57:04,059

When they have their own children.

1021

00:57:05,355 --> 00:57:06,425

Prince: Yeah, good question.

1022

00:57:07,115 --> 00:57:08,755

Uh, I don't know.

1023

00:57:08,845 --> 00:57:09,945

No, I don't know.

1024

00:57:09,945 --> 00:57:12,245

I don't know what they would do.

1025

00:57:14,375 --> 00:57:14,745

Yeah, I don't know.

1026

00:57:15,295 --> 00:57:15,815

I don't know.

1027

00:57:16,145 --> 00:57:19,475

Um, thankfully, not had that one yet.

1028

00:57:19,635 --> 00:57:21,095

Uh, maybe that one's coming.

1029

00:57:21,095 --> 00:57:24,065

Harold, have they spoken

to you about that?

1030

00:57:24,619 --> 00:57:27,479

Tali: Yes, uh, we actually

have talked a lot about that.

1031

00:57:27,479 --> 00:57:32,059

We have a 20 year old son who is

engaged to another homeschooler.

1032

00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:34,709

They kind of grew up together

in the homeschooling program.

1033

00:57:34,759 --> 00:57:37,099

And both of them are already talking.

1034

00:57:37,234 --> 00:57:40,544

extensively about how they want

to raise their children and

1035

00:57:40,664 --> 00:57:41,884

definitely want to homeschool.

1036

00:57:42,124 --> 00:57:45,274

But her mom's approach to homeschooling

was so different from mine.

1037

00:57:45,294 --> 00:57:48,424

And so he said that they want to

take a little bit from her side and a

1038

00:57:48,424 --> 00:57:50,584

little bit from his side, combine them.

1039

00:57:50,584 --> 00:57:54,094

So he, uh, so Nolan has

talked extensively about that.

1040

00:57:54,104 --> 00:57:56,724

My girls have said, well,

actually, Brianna has said that

1041

00:57:56,824 --> 00:57:58,504

she definitely wants to homeschool.

1042

00:57:58,504 --> 00:57:59,854

And Alaya says she's not sure.

1043

00:57:59,854 --> 00:58:01,784

It depends on her circumstance.

1044

00:58:02,389 --> 00:58:05,239

And Caden's 16, so he's

not thinking that far yet.

1045

00:58:07,110 --> 00:58:08,850

Prince: Oh, that's,

that's, that's interesting.

1046

00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,150

And, and congrats, uh, on the look.

1047

00:58:12,210 --> 00:58:13,950

I hope, I'm sure you're

looking forward to the big day.

1048

00:58:14,439 --> 00:58:14,999

Scott: It's going to be,

1049

00:58:15,379 --> 00:58:18,999

Tali: It's a little strange, you know, I

wasn't expecting it to happen this soon.

1050

00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:20,350

Prince: Yeah.

1051

00:58:20,729 --> 00:58:22,199

Tali: He's a little on the young side.

1052

00:58:22,404 --> 00:58:24,674

Scott: He's young, but he

thinks he thinks longterm.

1053

00:58:25,194 --> 00:58:29,834

So I, I wasn't mature enough at 20

to make a life decision like that.

1054

00:58:30,404 --> 00:58:33,514

I just wasn't ready, but

they're very, very thoughtful.

1055

00:58:33,794 --> 00:58:37,174

So they're very, they're, they're very

thoughtful about what they're trying

1056

00:58:37,174 --> 00:58:40,684

to plan for the future and good autumn.

1057

00:58:41,034 --> 00:58:44,024

There, just because it was a different

timing than me, I'll have to, I'll

1058

00:58:44,024 --> 00:58:47,334

just have to learn and I can't

force other people into my path.

1059

00:58:47,334 --> 00:58:51,714

So, um, but it's, yeah, you, I

think, I think as a parent, you're,

1060

00:58:52,364 --> 00:58:54,954

you're like learning more than

the kids are from the experience.

1061

00:58:55,754 --> 00:58:59,744

And I know, I feel like that for

me, it's been a personal journey

1062

00:58:59,744 --> 00:59:00,964

and this is just the next step.

1063

00:59:02,114 --> 00:59:04,242

So, Mm

1064

00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:08,030

Prince: if there's gonna be more and

more homeschooled kids in the next 10 to

1065

00:59:08,035 --> 00:59:10,280

15 years because it changes everything.

1066

00:59:10,285 --> 00:59:15,190

It changes the way people look,

how they, uh, look at life, how

1067

00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:17,710

they act, how they interact.

1068

00:59:18,060 --> 00:59:18,570

Um.

1069

00:59:18,765 --> 00:59:23,065

And one thing that I've noticed going

to the conferences that I've been going

1070

00:59:23,065 --> 00:59:26,515

to for the last 18 months, people come

up to me and they stop me and they

1071

00:59:26,515 --> 00:59:28,465

tap me on the shoulder and they're

like, listen, I just want to tell

1072

00:59:28,465 --> 00:59:29,825

you I love this show and everything.

1073

00:59:30,205 --> 00:59:33,265

We love that Lauren asks the first

question and blah, blah, blah,

1074

00:59:33,265 --> 00:59:34,775

that first 10 minutes is golden.

1075

00:59:35,245 --> 00:59:36,335

And they're like, and you know what?

1076

00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:43,930

I had no idea that the education system

was set up the way it was and my kids

1077

00:59:43,930 --> 00:59:48,250

will never go to state school because of

listening to your interviews with what you

1078

00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:52,250

guys have been on and whoever else I've

had on I must have like 15 or 20 different

1079

00:59:52,270 --> 00:59:54,450

episodes now focused purely on that.

1080

00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:56,570

And they're like, no, blown away.

1081

00:59:56,770 --> 00:59:58,340

Can't believe I ever went through that.

1082

00:59:58,340 --> 00:59:59,900

Can't believe I never questioned it.

1083

01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,610

But all I do know is when I do

get married and we do have kids,

1084

01:00:03,830 --> 01:00:06,180

they ain't going to state school

or I've got to find a partner.

1085

01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,080

Who already thinks that their kids

are never going to go to state school.

1086

01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,850

And I know I've probably

found the right partner.

1087

01:00:11,850 --> 01:00:16,490

So it's, it's great to hear that, uh,

you know, you're, you're expecting

1088

01:00:16,490 --> 01:00:17,740

just to talk about Bitcoin the whole

1089

01:00:17,759 --> 01:00:18,229

Scott: Mm hmm.

1090

01:00:19,550 --> 01:00:21,170

Prince: that's, that's

just a nice takeaway.

1091

01:00:21,419 --> 01:00:25,159

Scott: Yeah, you guys are the OGs of, of

world schooling to the, I mean, they're

1092

01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:27,389

like, oh man, look, they were in early.

1093

01:00:27,389 --> 01:00:28,309

They did it, you know, like,

1094

01:00:29,099 --> 01:00:29,309

Tali: Yeah.

1095

01:00:29,314 --> 01:00:34,589

I think now that our eyes are opened,

a lot of people have talked to us after

1096

01:00:34,589 --> 01:00:39,239

our, um, homeschooling panel discussions

different places and said, I, I don't

1097

01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:43,649

have a significant other, so I don't have

any children, but when it does happen.

1098

01:00:43,934 --> 01:00:47,774

They're getting homeschooled like

young people coming up to us and

1099

01:00:47,784 --> 01:00:49,984

they're listening to the discussions.

1100

01:00:50,049 --> 01:00:54,579

Scott: I think Bitcoiners are already

primed, like they're already, the

1101

01:00:54,579 --> 01:00:59,849

idea of proof of work, um, taking self

custody of anything, money or education,

1102

01:00:59,859 --> 01:01:03,869

like they're already in separation of

education and state, like they're, these,

1103

01:01:03,919 --> 01:01:11,419

the concept of applying that to a new

area I think is a lot faster than, than

1104

01:01:11,429 --> 01:01:16,889

the homeschoolers who are They, they

have a lot of the, the core, they value

1105

01:01:16,889 --> 01:01:19,849

freedom, they value taking care of their

kids and their education and all that.

1106

01:01:20,819 --> 01:01:22,999

But they're, they're like so far behind.

1107

01:01:23,009 --> 01:01:27,799

They're not primed to hear a

new way of doing things, right?

1108

01:01:27,799 --> 01:01:30,049

Our experience has been a lot

of the people who've chosen

1109

01:01:30,049 --> 01:01:31,429

homeschooling, they're overwhelmed.

1110

01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:35,249

Maybe now they're, they're trying

to get by on one, one income.

1111

01:01:35,419 --> 01:01:37,479

So they're probably being super frugal.

1112

01:01:38,209 --> 01:01:40,569

They're trying to figure out all the

curriculum that they need to have.

1113

01:01:41,189 --> 01:01:44,089

And then you come along or

Tali and I come along and say,

1114

01:01:44,739 --> 01:01:46,149

Hey, we, you should add this.

1115

01:01:46,319 --> 01:01:48,989

You should add money to your, your thing.

1116

01:01:48,989 --> 01:01:51,459

And by the way, it's

not Dave Ramsey, right?

1117

01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:54,519

Like, you know, it's, it's, it's

this, this whole other thing.

1118

01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:56,309

And you try to explain it to

them, their eyes glaze over.

1119

01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:58,129

So now you're scaring

them with a new topic.

1120

01:01:58,829 --> 01:02:00,229

They don't know how

they're going to fit it in.

1121

01:02:00,339 --> 01:02:02,679

And if they do fit it in now that you're

going to try to convince them that you're

1122

01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:04,179

the one that has trusted resources for it.

1123

01:02:04,189 --> 01:02:06,029

So they're like, there's like

battle, battle, battle, battle.

1124

01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:08,699

So they will eventually get there.

1125

01:02:09,174 --> 01:02:11,804

Over the next, I don't know how

many years it'll, it'll, it'll take,

1126

01:02:11,814 --> 01:02:16,854

but going to any Bitcoin meetup,

people are primed like they're,

1127

01:02:17,264 --> 01:02:18,754

their mindset is already that way.

1128

01:02:18,754 --> 01:02:20,584

And now they're just

applying it to their health.

1129

01:02:20,644 --> 01:02:22,163

They're applying it to education.

1130

01:02:22,163 --> 01:02:24,624

They're applying it to

just fill in the blank.

1131

01:02:25,254 --> 01:02:27,114

They're just applying those

principles to the next thing and

1132

01:02:27,134 --> 01:02:28,534

the next thing and the next thing.

1133

01:02:28,634 --> 01:02:29,804

And it's true with education.

1134

01:02:29,904 --> 01:02:32,374

So yeah, it's exciting.

1135

01:02:32,614 --> 01:02:34,384

This is our area where

we feel like we can help.

1136

01:02:34,924 --> 01:02:37,364

Give back to, like I said in

the introduction, like we're,

1137

01:02:37,754 --> 01:02:39,344

we're not the techies, right?

1138

01:02:39,344 --> 01:02:42,764

We're not gonna be able to explain

to you how the technical stuff works.

1139

01:02:42,824 --> 01:02:46,114

Um, but, um, you know, we're not

financially analysts or anything like

1140

01:02:46,174 --> 01:02:50,314

that, but I mean, this, this area we've,

we've, this is what we dedicate our lives

1141

01:02:50,314 --> 01:02:51,913

to do with in terms of raising the kids.

1142

01:02:51,913 --> 01:02:55,034

And it, it, it fits with the

mission of, and the freedom

1143

01:02:55,074 --> 01:02:56,734

oriented people in Bitcoin.

1144

01:02:56,924 --> 01:03:00,354

So, and we get to meet great

folks like, like yourselves.

1145

01:03:00,354 --> 01:03:03,694

Like if we hadn't done this,

we never would have taught.

1146

01:03:04,229 --> 01:03:07,779

I'd still be listening to my podcast

or, you know, books, whatever, seeing

1147

01:03:07,779 --> 01:03:10,879

the kids, maybe a couple minutes at

night if I'm lucky because I'm so

1148

01:03:10,879 --> 01:03:13,099

tired, I just want to go to bed, right?

1149

01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:14,189

That would have been the alternative.

1150

01:03:14,788 --> 01:03:19,169

And instead we're, we're out making

much deeper connections with people

1151

01:03:19,169 --> 01:03:23,009

who value have the same kind of values

we have from all over the world.

1152

01:03:23,059 --> 01:03:26,549

Tali is interviewing ladies from

like literally all over the world.

1153

01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:29,249

And we're talking about going to Madeira.

1154

01:03:29,329 --> 01:03:32,349

We're talking about other

things that we want to do.

1155

01:03:32,369 --> 01:03:33,279

We went to El Salvador.

1156

01:03:33,749 --> 01:03:37,529

We never would have done that had

we not been in this community.

1157

01:03:37,529 --> 01:03:39,439

So it's, it's very exciting to be part of.

1158

01:03:40,259 --> 01:03:42,919

And hopefully the kids are watching

and they'll get some ideas and

1159

01:03:42,919 --> 01:03:46,288

they'll say, yeah, we want to, we

want to do what mom and dad did.

1160

01:03:46,709 --> 01:03:47,099

I hope

1161

01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:50,310

Prince: Well, we hope

to see you in Madeira.

1162

01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:51,070

We'll, we'll be there.

1163

01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:54,040

So if you get across, uh, it'd be

cool to, uh, to hang out with you.

1164

01:03:55,309 --> 01:03:56,149

Scott: Yeah, that'd be awesome.

1165

01:03:56,419 --> 01:03:57,139

Hey, let's do that.

1166

01:03:57,614 --> 01:04:00,774

Prince: For me personally, it's

the, um, it's those conversations.

1167

01:04:00,774 --> 01:04:02,174

It's the meeting the people.

1168

01:04:02,834 --> 01:04:04,614

Um, I don't have.

1169

01:04:05,274 --> 01:04:10,084

inspiring conversations day to day

with people around in our communities.

1170

01:04:10,504 --> 01:04:11,334

Other than you, babe.

1171

01:04:11,734 --> 01:04:18,174

But, um, but then, uh, when we, uh, go

to those, those, uh, those conferences or

1172

01:04:18,174 --> 01:04:23,804

the meetups, just every conversation, what

people are doing or how they're doing it.

1173

01:04:23,874 --> 01:04:27,644

And it just, the

conversations blow me away.

1174

01:04:27,644 --> 01:04:30,254

And it just, it, it's inspiring.

1175

01:04:30,254 --> 01:04:35,229

It gives me Hope, uh, you

know, I can, I can just feel

1176

01:04:35,419 --> 01:04:37,649

inside me just a positiveness.

1177

01:04:38,324 --> 01:04:42,004

Um, from those conversations, which, you

know, don't get quite so much these days.

1178

01:04:42,254 --> 01:04:42,674

Right.

1179

01:04:42,694 --> 01:04:46,663

Scott: So, so here we've gone

through this, this, this

1180

01:04:46,674 --> 01:04:47,594

awesome experience you have.

1181

01:04:47,594 --> 01:04:51,114

It's the proof of work, the way your,

your kids have seen the world and what

1182

01:04:51,114 --> 01:04:55,134

they experience and they're bilingual

and they, they have a whole different.

1183

01:04:55,499 --> 01:05:00,779

Perspective and you have these

relationship and experiences together.

1184

01:05:00,788 --> 01:05:02,089

And that is just awesome.

1185

01:05:02,099 --> 01:05:03,719

So just a shout out to you guys.

1186

01:05:04,219 --> 01:05:09,019

As we, as we wrap up, what would be

maybe one or two of your favorite

1187

01:05:09,019 --> 01:05:11,889

resources that you might point people to?

1188

01:05:12,059 --> 01:05:13,939

I mean, obviously we're going

to put in the show notes, a

1189

01:05:13,939 --> 01:05:15,959

link to one's bitten and to.

1190

01:05:16,749 --> 01:05:18,809

To, um, to your book.

1191

01:05:18,859 --> 01:05:19,469

Choose life.

1192

01:05:20,179 --> 01:05:24,699

So we'll have links to, to that, but is

there anything else that you guys have

1193

01:05:24,699 --> 01:05:27,559

that are favorite resources or favorite

things that you like to point people to?

1194

01:05:29,484 --> 01:05:31,224

Prince: We use a lot of

different things, don't we?

1195

01:05:31,225 --> 01:05:33,394

We use Khan Academy quite a bit.

1196

01:05:34,484 --> 01:05:34,504

Yeah.

1197

01:05:35,224 --> 01:05:35,834

KUBRIO.

1198

01:05:35,904 --> 01:05:38,384

K U B R I O.

1199

01:05:38,774 --> 01:05:40,544

Online learning platform.

1200

01:05:40,774 --> 01:05:42,974

Online self directed education platform.

1201

01:05:43,214 --> 01:05:48,184

Probably for I think the sweet spot for

kids aged between 8 to 14 at the moment.

1202

01:05:49,094 --> 01:05:54,084

Uh, then, Out School, obviously

has a lot of, uh, stuff on there

1203

01:05:54,774 --> 01:05:56,144

that you can just plug into.

1204

01:05:56,714 --> 01:06:00,104

And if you want to go down the

rabbit hole, and like we said, in

1205

01:06:00,124 --> 01:06:05,874

getting yourself prepared first

is key, uh, uh, any of the books

1206

01:06:05,874 --> 01:06:09,054

by John Holt, that's H O L T.

1207

01:06:09,454 --> 01:06:10,044

Peter Gray.

1208

01:06:10,264 --> 01:06:12,144

Peter Gray's book, Free to Learn.

1209

01:06:12,504 --> 01:06:15,574

I have an interview with Peter

on the Once Bitten podcast.

1210

01:06:16,899 --> 01:06:20,929

also have an interview with Pat

Ferringer, who carried on John Holt's

1211

01:06:20,929 --> 01:06:22,929

work as well on the Once Bitten podcast.

1212

01:06:22,929 --> 01:06:25,629

So if you just go to Once Bitten and

search Peter Gray, you'll find it,

1213

01:06:25,689 --> 01:06:27,769

or Pat Ferringer, you'll find it.

1214

01:06:27,770 --> 01:06:29,659

Naomi Fisher.

1215

01:06:29,729 --> 01:06:34,624

Naomi Fisher, she's written a book, two

books now, uh, that are very worth digging

1216

01:06:34,624 --> 01:06:39,134

into, uh, because she comes at this from

a clinical child psychologist point of

1217

01:06:39,134 --> 01:06:45,604

view that was in the system before she had

to get out of the system because she saw,

1218

01:06:45,874 --> 01:06:50,964

like her, her big light bulb moment was

maybe there's nothing wrong with the kids.

1219

01:06:51,004 --> 01:06:51,724

Maybe it's the

1220

01:06:51,779 --> 01:06:52,399

Scott: Mm hmm.

1221

01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:53,233

Mm

1222

01:06:53,544 --> 01:06:56,214

Prince: then of course she was

canceled for saying such things.

1223

01:06:56,894 --> 01:07:05,394

And, uh, John Taylor Gatto,

all of his books, incredible.

1224

01:07:05,934 --> 01:07:07,354

Gabo Marte.

1225

01:07:07,355 --> 01:07:07,663

Gabo Marte.

1226

01:07:07,663 --> 01:07:08,663

Hold on to your kids.

1227

01:07:09,279 --> 01:07:10,099

Another book.

1228

01:07:10,429 --> 01:07:10,929

Yeah.

1229

01:07:11,209 --> 01:07:16,199

Uh, and for the Austrian economic minded

people out there, go and read Rothbard's

1230

01:07:16,219 --> 01:07:19,809

book, Education Free and Compulsory.

1231

01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:22,999

So if you're coming at this from

a Bitcoin slant or an Austrian

1232

01:07:23,019 --> 01:07:25,409

economics slant, go read Rothbard.

1233

01:07:25,669 --> 01:07:26,299

It's amazing.

1234

01:07:26,409 --> 01:07:26,929

Scott: Okay.

1235

01:07:27,538 --> 01:07:28,509

Oh, I love it.

1236

01:07:29,019 --> 01:07:30,879

I can't wait to put

all the links to those.

1237

01:07:30,879 --> 01:07:32,709

And then Tali and I

are always looking for,

1238

01:07:33,109 --> 01:07:33,809

Prince: Sorry for the extra

1239

01:07:34,149 --> 01:07:38,339

Scott: no, I mean, it's great because

now there are things that we haven't yet

1240

01:07:39,169 --> 01:07:45,429

read or explored and, and that's just,

that's a fantastic, uh, fantastic start.

1241

01:07:45,538 --> 01:07:47,969

So we'll absolutely check all those out.

1242

01:07:48,899 --> 01:07:51,589

But any other, any other final

thoughts, Claire, Tali, you

1243

01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:53,019

guys, uh, you want to get out.

1244

01:07:54,979 --> 01:07:59,029

No, guys, we really we really appreciate

your time we're looking forward to

1245

01:07:59,029 --> 01:08:04,529

hopefully meeting up maybe in Madeira And

best of luck with these other the next

1246

01:08:04,529 --> 01:08:06,019

stages that you guys go through as well.

1247

01:08:07,788 --> 01:08:08,439

Prince: Thank you for having us.

1248

01:08:08,439 --> 01:08:09,059

Thank you very much.