In this episode of the Contractor Freedom Podcast, Jason Phillips sits down with Konrad Derheim of Derheim Painting for a powerful conversation about rebuilding, refocusing, and growing a painting business through one of the hardest seasons of his life.

Konrad shares how he went from feeling overwhelmed and stuck to building a $1.8M painting company by getting clear on the right work, making hard leadership decisions, improving his sales process, and learning how to build a business that could support both growth and freedom.

This conversation is for contractors who have built something successful on paper but still feel trapped by the pressure, decisions, and daily chaos of the business. Jason and Konrad talk honestly about what it takes to move from survival mode into real leadership and how focus, systems, pricing, and team development can change the future of a company.

If you’re a painting contractor, remodeling business owner, or home improvement entrepreneur who wants to escape Contractor Prison and build a business that gives back your time, peace, and purpose, this episode is for you.

Topics include painting business growth, contractor leadership, building a team, raising prices, creating systems, overcoming hard seasons, and finding Contractor Freedom.

As a certified human behavior consultant in disc personality styles and motivators, I'll be sharing with you skills for life, love, leadership, and business. I'll also be connecting you with experts that can help you scale your business and your life. So if you want to build the business and life of your dreams, then you are in the right place. 


Let's go. 


Welcome to the Contractor Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Jason Phillips, and I'm sitting here today with konrad Derheim of Derheim Painting in, uh, Ardmore, Oklahoma. Konrad has quite the story of, uh, of transformation, not just in business, but in his, in his personal life, too, and, and, uh, w- we'll, we'll get into that. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah, so thank you for having me here, Jason. Really excited to share some of my story and talk with you. Uh, yeah, my name's Konrad , owner of Derheim Painting. 


Derheim Painting & Home Improvement. We actually just rebranded just a couple months ago, so it's still fresh. And we are in small town Oklahoma, not attached to a big metro market or anything, so, uh, it's a slightly different business model. And yeah, been in business for a little over six years. Uh, part of Contractor Freedom since the very first event, and that's a quick snapshot. 


Konrad Derheim: I would say leadership. 


Jason Phillips: Hmm. Okay. 


Konrad Derheim: Yep. 


Jason Phillips: Leadership. It all rises and falls, doesn't it? Okay. Great. Um- Take us back before Durheim Painting. 


What was life like? 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. It just depends how far you want me to go back, but, um, you know, life right out of high school was different. That's when I got introduced to the painting trade, right out of high school in San Francisco. So that's where I was born and raised, uh, lived there for 28 years. But right out of high school, I was introduced to painting. 


Um, by the time I was graduated out of high school, already had my house raided, been in trouble, had been shot for the first time, selling drugs, doing everything in that sort of lifestyle. 


Jason Phillips: I've never heard someone say shot for the first time. Okay. Okay, you had, man, you had a pretty rough time. Wow. So, um, well, all of that changed. 


When did that happen? 


Jason Phillips: W- was there, was there one of these, "Hey, enough is enough" moments? Like, what, what, what brought about the, the desire for change? We go from LA to Oklahoma. LA- That's, 


Konrad Derheim: that's 


Jason Phillips: a- To Okla- Sorry. I keep saying, I keep saying that. Going from SF- SF hates 


Konrad Derheim: LA. That's, that's why. We- 


Jason Phillips: That's right. I know ... we 


Konrad Derheim: hate LA. 


Jason Phillips: I know, and I always get... 


Every time we talk, I keep saying LA. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. That's what it is. Okay. SF, San Francisco- 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah ... 


Jason Phillips: to Oklahoma. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: Okay. You had family there, but that's quite a change. 


Konrad Derheim: Mm-hmm. 


Jason Phillips: But what... We... There, there had to have been something that said, 


"Hey, we gotta get out of here." 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah, so getting out of jail for the last time, uh, was huge. 


Jason Phillips: to that. Mm. 


Konrad Derheim: And so I was still an addict, still getting high, still selling some of that stuff, and involved. 


I mean, you're living inside of San Francisco where all you know is, is that type of life, uh, as an adult at least. 


Jason Phillips: Mm-hmm. 


Uh, we came out to Oklahoma for July 4th just to try to see family and do something a little bit different. And when we came back to San Francisco, we had already talked about, you know, [00:06:00] how can we get away from this? How can we leave? 


Jason Phillips: Mm. 


Konrad Derheim: And she kept on saying, "You know, Oklahoma wasn't that bad." And I'm like, "Really?" 


Like, I thought it was pretty bad, honestly. Like, I thought it was just dirt roads and slow and not my scene. But she kept talking about it, and I knew we needed to make a change. And so we went back out there the next month in August, and this time, yeah, we did stay with family, but it wasn't a family trip. 


It was more so I could kinda see the scene, and I was painting again at that time in San Francisco. So I was trying to understand, like, what the trades and how many painting companies there were, and what I would do for work if I was going to come and live here. And I realized that, like, when you Google painter near me in Ardmore, Oklahoma, I mean, you get nothing. 


Jason Phillips: are. 


Mm-hmm. 


Konrad Derheim: And so we actually moved the next month. So moved, went out in July, came back in August, moved in September, and that is kind of the story right before settling down in Ardmore. 


Jason Phillips: So what's a moment maybe from the old life that you'd never wanna repeat again? 


Konrad Derheim: There's so many. I mean, just, I mean, getting high is, is probably the first one. 


I mean, addiction is, is a real- 


Jason Phillips: Mm-hmm ... 


Konrad Derheim: is a real thing. It's really hard to, to get sober from, from anything, I guess, but I was dealing with meth. 


Konrad Derheim: September 15th of 2019. That 


Jason Phillips: was it. 


Konrad Derheim: That was it. So we drove out to Oklahoma, you know, in a car that we didn't own, uh, with some stuff we probably shouldn't have had. 


And by that, you know, we brought only... Our plan was to get sober. So, like, we were moving to get sober, and we didn't have... We had my family's, my grandparents' house to live, to stay, not live forever, but they were willing to help us transition. And they didn't know, you know, our whole story or anything like that, but they were super excited to have family come move to Oklahoma, right? 


Um, get real cranky and sluggish, but that was the day. So that, that day means, means a lot to us. The day I got to Oklahoma is my sober date. 


Jason Phillips: So then that... Man, that's so impressive. I want you to know, that is super impressive. Super impressive. 'Cause so, so many people get stuck in that loop and never get out. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: Thank you. They never get out. So I'm, that's super impressive. You know- Coming from all of that, does that influence the way that you lead today? 


Konrad Derheim: 100%. Yeah, I think a lot of people when they hear some of my past are like, "Oh, so you know how to get money and, and stuff like that." And I'm like, "Yeah, but no, it has nothing to do with that." 


My worst day is way better than any day in my past. 


Jason Phillips: Wow. Wow, so the contrast there. Okay. Man, that's, that's really, that's really interesting. You know, as business owners, um, it's easy for us to, you know, feel like, wow, we've... It's... Life is hard. Life is hard. But man, I've never dealt with something like you've had to deal with before. 


And we, we may, we may get into that in a minute. But, so let's talk, let's talk about business for a second, okay? You're in a small town, what, 250,000, somewhere like that? 


Konrad Derheim: In the entire service area. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. So- Our town is, like, 25,000. 


Jason Phillips: And, and, uh, okay, so you started the business and, um, got it rolling and it somehow, you know, you and, you and I got connected. 


What, what was, uh, what was business like, you know, two years ago, a year and a half ago? 


January of ' 


Konrad Derheim: Right. So I went to those first two events, and two years ago, let's just say two years ago from today in May of '24, I had already gotten so distracted with commercial work that it totally took me in a different direction. Mm-hmm. And I did the most revenue we've ever done at the time that year with like a 36 or so gross profit, only negative net. 


I mean- I see ... did, performed horribly. Now you go a year and a half ago, let's say the beginning of '25, that's when I came back to sales boot camp and completely, uh, got clarity on the direction that the business needed to go in, which was back to residential repaints. 


Jason Phillips: Focus, and focus on repaints. 


Konrad Derheim: Focus on repaints, and everything changed. 


Jason Phillips: So And that's fantastic. And by the way, you just got a new, some new wheels, by the way. 


What, what'd you get? 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. A 26 Raptor. 


Jason Phillips: Oh. Yeah. Ford Raptor. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It looks so good. That's like, man, that's like a dream truck. 


Konrad Derheim: I love it. I mean, as soon as I test drove it, 'cause I was like, "Okay, I'm getting my guys all these brand-new vehicles." Yeah. Man, they deserve that. Right. They should have something nice, you know, F-150 and whatever. 


And so I'm like, okay, it's about time I look at something for me. I'm like, okay, well, a Lariat F-150 that has the leather, the moonroof, all that stuff is already 60 or 70. And so then I was like, no, I don't love that for the price. I drive an F-250, and I'm like, there's nothing I need here. I don't need to tow a boat yet. 


Jason Phillips: baby. I'm gonna have to get this. Yeah, baby. Okay. Sweet. Sweet. It, it, what a nice truck it is. Yeah. 


Man, you des- you totally deserve that. Um, so, so let, let's go back to the, the, um, a, I, I feel like a lot of, uh, a lot of contractors dabble in the residential and the commercial. And, um, and some, I, I guess I would say some succeed, but, but the focus sounds like it really simplified things for you. And you said you, you had clarity, and I think that's one of the, one of the main things in business that, uh, many business owners, most business owners don't have is, like, real clarity. 


Konrad Derheim: Yep. That would've been Alicia at the time. 


Jason Phillips: And, um, so you were running all the projects, doing all the sales, wearing ton of different hats. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: And, um, and you eventually, uh, hired... What was the first role, next role that you hired for? 


Jason Phillips: Okay. So project management. Now you've-- So you were focusing more on the sales end? 


Jason Phillips: So, okay, so you got your admin first. 


Konrad Derheim: Mm-hmm. 


Jason Phillips: Then you had a project manager, and, and, uh, and now, what does it look like now? 


Konrad Derheim: Two sales project consultants, and we almost have a second project manager as well. 


We're hiring for, for that role. And then I just fired our call center last week, and that's a different story, but they weren't performing and, and some other things. So once we replace them, we will have two full-time office roles, you know, Desiree, who does expediter and some other things with, with the business, and then call center, two sales reps, two PMs. 


That's what we'll have in the next 30 days. 


Then I talked to you on a Monday, and you're like, "Jason, I fired him." And this was the guy that was using your company truck for personal things. And here's what you said to me. You said, "Jason, he, he knew he wasn't supposed to do that. He, he knew that he wasn't supposed to take the com- run personal errands on the weekend in his truck," or whatever he did. 


Sh- in the short term, it would've been easier to let him stay, and just to have more conversations about performance. It would've been easier to let him stay, but you would've been, you would've been nursing a cancer, right? You don't put up with it. And it's not about... I, I, I don't get the, uh, feeling that you're a toxic boss, by the, by the way. 


Um, but one of the hardest things to do, one of the hardest things to do in business is to fire people. The, the people problems are more stressful and difficult than the money problems or the tax problems. And it would've been so easy just to let this ride, but you would've been, you would've been nursing a cancer on your team. 


I mean, when, during their, during their interview, they're doing their best sales presentation they've ever done. And you've, and you've got their, you've got their advertising sheet right in front of you, their, their resume, right? And so you think they're gonna put all this, their failures and faults on there? 


No, they're not. And, um, which by the way, you know, one of the things that, that we've done, we've worked together is work, is to define your roles, right? And, um, has that hel- how has that helped you by, you know, we create this role packet together that's got key result areas, ideal avatar, you know, personality match, um, job ad, interview questions, all of that stuff. 


How has that helped you? 


Of course, you have to incorporate disc assessments when you're doing the in-person interview in the office. Don't send them an email and have them do it at home or anything like that. You gotta do it mid in-person interview if you feel like they are, you know, deserving- 


Jason Phillips: Heading the, headed the right direction 


And- Mm ... you know, that was something where I'm out of town, you know, dealing with my son's surgery- Yes ... and he's telling the office that, you know, the, the van is parked, everything's good, and he lives near the o- near our office, and, you know, someone found out that, hey, the van's not there- Mm ... multiple days in a row. 


Someone like that has to go, um, just to give some clarity on, you know, firing fast, but... 


Jason Phillips: You know, y- you... something that, that you mentioned that you were out of the office 'cause y- your son was having some surgeries. You had to take some time off work. 


Konrad Derheim: Yep. 


Jason Phillips: And when you were deal- I was so happy for you at that moment that you were able to take off to be with the family and the business kept running. 


Konrad Derheim: Both. Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah, right? And so through that time, if... Correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory is the business kept rolling other than that issue. The, the jobs kept running, the sales kept coming in, and, uh, you were able to focus on family, which is ideal. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. I had some freedom there to be able to handle kind of an emergency with the family- 


Jason Phillips: Yeah ... 


Konrad Derheim: and not let it be an emergency in the business. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. That would've been a double... That would've just made it that much more stressful. 


Konrad Derheim: For sure. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. Indeed. So, um, what- What would you say to a contractor who's listening to us that's got someone on their team that they don't trust? 


Konrad Derheim: I would say instantly, I mean, get the feelings out and make it facts. 


So if you don't trust them, you have to know exactly why you don't trust that person, and if it crosses, you know, that threshold for what you tolerate and what you will allow to happen in your business, then you gotta let them go right away unless, you know, there's... If they're not at that threshold, then maybe you bring them in and talk to them to see if you can correct it. 


Of course, that's always a good thing. It just depends case by case. Trust is a major thing for me. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. 


Konrad Derheim: So we don't give a lot of chances with trust at Painting. 


Jason Phillips: Well, you're, there's a lot at risk. Yeah. There's, there's a lot at risk. Um, tell me about a hiring mistake that really stung. 


Um, so I mean, even recently, uh, our PM who was with us for almost a year, he actually parted ways to go to dental school. So that was kind of all at once, and we needed to fill that seat really quickly. And I was doing interviews, and the person we ended up hiring, who's gone by now, you know, did not last more than about three weeks. 


I mean, they had that sales presentation at the interview. You know, they had confidence. They were able to, you know, just speak really properly about their experience and how it's so relatable to the role of project management. They were... They had a management role at a factory, and so they had a lot of people who reported to them and things like that. 


And so that was really tough, and I was just so impressed with his interview. Hiring is so hard because I see how every person who walks through the door can be a good fit, and I like to think that they will be a good fit, and it's hard for me to say no during the interview process if there's enough, enough good. 


Jason Phillips: Right. 


Konrad Derheim: Um, so that one hurt because it was pushing us back. I mean, we have a... We already taken a step back by losing our PM, then we kinda make a step forward by hiring one, then we're like two back because now we're multiple months having that transition phase 


Jason Phillips: So 


Konrad Derheim: that was a very recent 


Jason Phillips: Those are re- those are real setbacks. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah, I would say it starts with being humble. I mean, like, they just, they leave their ego at the door when they walk in. 


I mean, they just don't think that they're better than anyone except better than everyone else outside of Painting. Yeah. I mean, we are very competitive. I mean, you walk in and you feel that winning spirit, and everyone is super competitive, but other than that, I mean, we're not better than each other, um, if that makes sense. 


Jason Phillips: So having a team like yours is, um, is the goal of a lot of contractors, and I hear this a lot: "Jason, I need someone. When should I hire someone? I, where am I gonna get the money?" What would you say? Where'd you get the money? 


Konrad Derheim: Well, I raised my prices with the S7 sales process to where we just want to afford everything that we need. 


But actually, I mean, you have to hire before you actually need the role, because by the time you need the person, it's too late to start hiring and you're already behind. 


Jason Phillips: That's right. 


Konrad Derheim: And so you... I mean, I'm leaving my job ads up for roles that I'm not hiring for today just to have a pipeline as full as possible, and if an A player just comes in and they're knocking on our door, we might find a seat for them even if we're not ready because we are so growth-minded that an A player will help us win no matter if we're ready on paper or not. 


You know, if Apple needs to upgrade the processor or puts faster stuff in there, are they paying for that? No. We're paying for that, right? The customer pays for the better stuff. And, and here's, here's, here's a reality is, you know, when, when you're the one-man show or the Superman in your business and you're trying to, you're trying to run the sales, you're trying to run the projects, you're trying to do the marketing, do the backend, everything's that maybe the admin work, you're really not doing a good job at anything. 


You're just making everything survive, right? 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: Well, that's a good way to look at it. And so, I mean, being able to have a, a, a value-based sales process so you can actually start charging what you're worth. 


Too many contractors are doing great work and not charging for it. So if you wanna build a team like Konrad's team, you've gotta raise your prices and generate some more gross profit so you can hire those people, and then it just gets better and better. Now you're, now you're serving your customers m- better. 


What, y- you, you, you were one of the very first people to join the Contract Freedom Coaching program. Um, that was a big step. It was, it was a, it was a commitment both of time and financially, right? So, um, that, that was a leap. What, what made you take that leap? 


Konrad Derheim: I was tired of being stagnant working with a different coach. 


I mean, there were two years in a row where I basically was doing kinda similar stuff. 


Jason Phillips: Hmm. 


Konrad Derheim: And I mean, I know you gotta pay to play, and I don't want to, you know, read a bunch of books and watch YouTube videos and grow slowly. I would rather commit and pay the money and really invest time, uh, well spent with someone who's done it before to do it really fast. 


Jason Phillips: So well, you're still in the program. Um. So, um, what, what, what has changed? W- you know, what's been some of the greatest value from the program that, that you've received? 


Konrad Derheim: There's so much. I mean, I would say, you know, the roll packets that we touched on, I mean, is just such a foundational piece that I think if you don't have that, you're just at such a disadvantage because the only way to scale is with the people. 


Jason Phillips: Mm-hmm. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. 


Konrad Derheim: Um, it's unlike other communities that I've been a part of, and I think that people are just all kind of in the same, in similar spots. 


You know, everyone wants to grow, and grow the right way, and grow, uh, quickly as well, and there's just a lot of support with people making a lot of change in their communities really fast, and I, I think that's just, just a great thing. 


Jason Phillips: Well, I'll tell you, um, I have the information, but you've done the hard work. 


You've done the hard work, and, uh, I love working with people that do the hard work and make, and make the hard decisions. L- let's talk for a minute. It, it... Your, your name has evolved from Painting. It's now Painting & Home Improvement. What does that mean? 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah, so now we do painting, siding, and gutters. 


I mean, 250,000 we will max out eventually painting homes. And from there, without expanding the service area again to go either into OKC, which would be north, or Dallas, which would be south, which we're not gonna do, the only other thing is to add services. And so we have big goals, and we're adding those services to, to hit them. 


Jason Phillips: And those siding jobs are pretty nice. 


Konrad Derheim: They can be. They can be. We're on a siding job right now, a full re-side that we had, you know, some, some pricing issues on, but they can be really nice. I mean, we did one in J- uh, December because it was such a dry winter out here, uh, that was like 85K. That was our first one. Everything went perfect. 


Jason Phillips: Mm. 


Konrad Derheim: I mean, full re-side, the- 


Jason Phillips: That's a 


Konrad Derheim: nice one 


the horizontal LP Smart Siding. So I mean, it was like a, a lot of money for that one. Um- 


Jason Phillips: That's fantastic. 


Konrad Derheim: It was fantastic. And then we start this year, and it, it's been a little different, but either way, adding those services, keeping it all under one roof on the name has been great. 


Jason Phillips: So let me ask you this. 


Konrad Derheim: In '24 we did 960. 


Jason Phillips: 960. Yeah. And '25? 


Konrad Derheim: 1.8. 


Jason Phillips: So you doubled basically. 


Konrad Derheim: Basically. 


Jason Phillips: Wow. Okay. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. 


Jason Phillips: And, uh, '26, how was your first quarter? 


Konrad Derheim: So in sales we did, what, about 800, I think. 


Jason Phillips: In one quarter. 


Konrad Derheim: In, yeah. Maybe, maybe 750. 


I'd have to check. 


Jason Phillips: Probably the slowest quarter. 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna have a big year. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah. Incredible. So what, um, what's the next big thing that you're working on? Is it, is expanding the home improvement part? 


And so that is where that service, uh, population really increased. Mm. So before this last six months or eight months, I mean, we would barely serve, like, 100,000 people, and still was able to do a, a decent amount of revenue with that. But now our, our big step is really building our brand and name in this new Texas side. 


Jason Phillips: So expanding the geography is part of raising the revenue. 


Konrad Derheim: Exactly. Yeah. Service area and services all got-- all happened very close together. 


Jason Phillips: Fantastic. So man, what an incredible story you have. Just what, what you shared from where you started in San Francisco and, and where you're at now is... Man, that's inspirational. 


You may just be struggling in business. You're, you're covered up. You don't know where to go. You don't know where to turn to. Um, man, reach out to us. You know, send Konrad a message. He's online everywhere. Send me a message. I'd love to connect, and, uh, the best place to-- the best thing to do would be to join the Contractor Freedom community. 


And I'm sick and tired of seeing businesses steal from people's lives and, and I look at guys like Konrad now who, who's, who's doing the work. He's making the hard decisions. He's not delaying, and it's paying off for him year after year, and that makes me feel really great to be a part of your story. 


This is, this is really cool. So man, Konrad, d- sp- speak to someone out there who's stuck in business. They're stuck at, you know, below a million, where you were. You're trying to keep all the plates spinning all by yourself. Tell them what, what should they do? 


Konrad Derheim: Yeah, I'd say get clarity. I mean, just because you're at almost a million doesn't mean you are going in the right direction. 


Jason Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. All right. God bless you guys. We'll see you next time. Talk to you next time