Just as episode 6 was about to air, the promotional material for the episode on social media turned a few heads. Quite a few heads, actually. Again, The Spillway found itself amid a cancelation campaign. The title of this episode and the tagline for The Spillway (“refocus on Whiteness without supremacy or shame”) were the only two things that started this specific campaign. This time, on the charges that:

1. Feudalism is never funny.
2. White people shouldn’t earn a living dismantling racism.
3. It’s never okay to center White people.

Jenny and Loran re-recorded the intro to the episode to address these points. Still, we decided last minute to keep the episode in its original format. We decided to keep the original version after realizing we were responding from a place of hurt, not a place of connectivity. They weren’t actually interested in listening to the episode, let alone any of The Spillway’s work. Just as we weren’t interested in their healing. We began to mirror our shamers by responding to their tactics rooted in White supremacy with our own. 

We publish this bonus material here as a way to memorialize this moment. And as a way to invite people into the conversation of humor, what it means to make money in social services, and the power of connectivity. We offer this invitation independent of the cancelation campaign while acknowledging that this work didn’t grow in a vacuum. 

Mentioned in this episode:

The Spillway Community Guidelines

1. Engage sequentially. The show is a serial not episodic. We do this so we can build relation and find common ground and context. 2. We stay in our own lane. The Spillway is about White people talking to (predominately) White people about White people and White culture. We're not out here to critique anyone's actions but our own. 3. Our combined fabric of destiny. (3a) As Dr. King said, our humanities are deeply interconnected to each other. Racism negatively impacts me, too. (3b) The Spillway is one mechanism within a larger framework needed to sustain racial equity and justice. We're not a one-stop shop. 4. No one right way to liberation. We all share the same goals, but not every method works for every person. If this doesn't work for you. That's okay. Maybe it works for someone else.

How boring would that be?

That one really damaged us.

Huh?

Happily

ever after.

Oh, God don't even get me started.

I mean, you can get me started if you want.

We'll be here for a while.

So buckle in,

right?

Yeah.

I think about every single close relationship that

I've been in there has been.

' Jenny: cause that's life, but we

there's conflict in this relationship.

So that means it's no good.

Yeah.

Conflict helped me understand myself better, but that was only, I think part

of that too, as though that like, I wanted to understand the conflict more

and my actions and how they contributed.

And co-created a reality in which that conflict could occur.

I'm laughing.

Not because what you just said is like, you are probably the only person

who was like, I actively wanted to go towards the fire and figure out how

it started while it was still on fire.

Yeah.

I mean, it's burnt you uncomfortable couple of times, but also.

Keeps your blessed, blessed that humans are blessings.

No take backs.

No, but it's true.

You grow.

I mean, I don't think it's the only way you can grow in a relationship

is circle effect, but it's a very important part of how we learn.

Yeah, it is.

It is like, even think about like love languages and how I didn't even know

that they were love languages until I had to use that exact language.

If like, oh, this feels.

Weird that the language that I'm using, isn't landing for you in the same way.

And then that's when partners would have been like, oh no, this

is the way that I express my love.

And I think it's the same thing when we're in conflict to flag.

Oh, wait, I feel like I'm receiving this in a different or weird way.

Is that actually conflict or are you just expressing yourself in ways

that feel normal or like natural Tio?

Right.

And how am I receiving your information?

I did an Italian ones were so loud, so loud, and I always

felt like I was being yelled at.

Oh

really?

I wonder who else is Italian and loud in your life?

No, it wasn't.

Yeah, it wasn't yet.

I had to think this person, um, uh, I wasn't intending for the conversation

to, to go to this like really heightened or like elevated place.

And they were like, what are you talking about?

And it was like, I just feel like you're yelling at me right now.

Um, you're just being very loud.

And then that's when I literally got like the Italian hand.

That's like, I am Italian.

I will smack you.

And that is my symbol.

Yeah, but not all the times are going to smack you as there's some blood

flow, but this that's just like what this really lovely human was saying.

Right?

Like this, this, this is how I respond.

Yeah.

Oh, my,

how did we get here?

I of, we went on a, we went on a journey and we ended up in relationship,

which is what we're talking about anyway.

Right.

Because I think this is also will know it is the first time that we've

had more than one other person.

So that changes the dynamic too.

Like how are we going to talk to each other?

Like, whoa, what does that look like?

What are we, you

know?

Well, I think too, there's this thing that white people do when we

get together of especially like, especially the white liberal.

Well, okay.

So, so many of the creeks that I've read online, come from white liberals,

and this is like capital L liberal, which encompasses like Democrats and

Republicans who I think all hold this like bizarre belief that we can somehow

have ethical consumption under capitalism.

Uh, that there are ethical billionaires.

Sure.

I'll ethics.

Aren't a binary, but it's this like this lie that we tell ourselves to overcome our

guilt and shame that we feel for profiting off of socially sanctioned slave labor

under globalization, the collapse of our ecosystem, but like, that's just 0.1.

And then there's healing white people as prevention and harm reduction for me.

And the spillway, it follows the model around dismantling patriarchy

and like the numerous men supporting men orgs, a breakthrough for men

read jealous episode two of the podcast, masculinity action project.

Um, the Goodman project, the mankind project, um, Part of man part of

man, and this all compliments, the work of women Linnworks, these

men are doing incredible work.

And at the end of the day, they too have to put food on their tables

and put a roof over their heads.

The entire social service model is set up the exact same way, ask any

social worker or government employee.

And like, I get it.

Capitalism is icky and we need more people of all backgrounds working

to dismantle systems of oppression, with different skills, with different

strategies and different viewpoints.

And this one, right way mentality is just literally a tenant

of white supremacist culture.

Right.

There's more than one way to achieve liberation and pay.

Imagine gate keeping isn't high on the list of priorities.

And I think what's also so interesting when I hear this critique, is that in

it is this belief that white people are jumping over ourselves to end white

supremacy, which we know isn't the case.

If there were money to be had in dismantling white supremacy, we

wouldn't be having this conversation.

Right.

It would be.

So, um, candid foundation, uh, they have this breakdown of where,

how all of the money is distributed by a whole bunch of factors through

like foundations funds and trusts.

And they like do this for, um, all money that has moved.

It's just like a base and most of this money, um, that they're talking about

or that they explore it, it kind of goes on to fund social services and D and

I work or diversity equity inclusion.

They found that like over the last 18 years, it has become a 111.5,

$8 billion industry billion with a B and of that 111.5, 8 billion,

only 557 million with an M million.

Was earmarked for way people working with way people.

And so in perspective, if you take away every penny granted or funded to support

way people that dismantle white supremacy, 99.3% of the budget would still remain.

And that's over the last like 20 years.

And every time I think of that number, I always remember the

James Baldwin quote, hold on.

I want to get this right.

Let me look it up.

White people in this country.

We'll have quite enough to do in learning how to accept and

love themselves and each other.

And when they have achieved.

Which will not be tomorrow and will not be today and may very well be never.

The black problem will no longer exist for it will no longer be needed, but

yet we have all of these white liberals debating the ethics of the one right

way to put food on your table, because that's more important than to have

a cultural or systemic revolution that can also start from with that.

But also like there's women and people of color and trans and queer folks.

And all of the intersections are out that have asked men and white people and

citizens straight folks to do this work and to do that, which a lot of it is

emotional labor to do that by themselves.

There are so many white people, there are so many straight people

and CIS people and men who are hell bent on validation from women, folks

of color from queer and trans folk.

But white people.

As soon as we see another white person who we think is like acting out of pocket,

we immediately go find the closest person of color, specifically a black woman.

And we want them to tell us, thank you for showing me this, because it reminds

me that you're the good way person.

You're the good white validation.

And then we rely on the emotional labor of folks of color.

Again, so much of this feels so icky because in liberal spaces,

wait, people have been told.

I hate ourselves.

Right?

Right.

Other weight people that we have to decenter ourselves from this conversation,

no matter what you can never, ever, ever think about you being weighed.

And so now I'll wait.

People like use this de-centering.

Phrase as a shield to not examine our own roles in perpetrating violence,

against folks of color and hurts people.

And it feels icky because capitalism is awful and it feels icky because

part of not all of, but part of this work is about learning and healing.

Our hurts as hurt people can hurt people.

I mean, more than actual Israel, like all of the above, like, uh, just.

And that's why I'm so excited for this conversation today

because these three white people.

Are still like charging through all of this noise to say no, actually wait,

people willing to be honest and talk with other white people about this.

And I also need to put food on the table because there's no consumption

because there's no ethical consumption of the capitalism.

Right.

There is one.

Uh, and I feel like that's just part of the shame culture that

we're so deeply invested in of.

Let me also shame white people so that the attention is not on me.

Right?

Like I'm going to line up behind this person.

So you can't see me.

Right.

It will be in a perfect cutout and the perfect silhouette cutout.

So you cannot see

me at all.

So you can't see me at all so that you, so that if you do know I'm

there, you know, that I'm on the right, the right side of things.

And so I'm so excited to be in a room full of white

people that acknowledge this.

And they're going to be like, actually, we're not going to

use shame in this conversation.

What are we supposed to call best?

Like I was thinking of like, wait people doing the work.

what about like something like, so it's, uh, so it's, we're kind of

going around in a circle, like a focus group, like a focus group focus group,

like a white people's focus group, but that sounds kind of clinical.

How loud, where a white people focus group.

What about my God?

Whites of the round table?

You so much.

I hate me too.

It's okay.

I mean,

what is the story?

It's the king, or if there's like court, right.

You're asking

the wrong person with certainly.

I don't know the Alamo, so yeah.

But yes,

that's not what this is all

about.

This is all about Camelot and the sword and the stone is

also a part of that story.

So we're coming back to Disney.

I don't know, you know, I mean names, but I feel like there's a, like a KU

Klux Klan thing about white Sunday.

Oh like the white Knights of the

KKK.

Yeah, there we go.

That's probably not.

I mean,

I hear what you're saying, and this is upon like, it's a bunch of

white people sitting around the round table talking about what it means to be

white, but there's no connection here.

And if people want to make that connection, like that's their call,

but like, that's not our intention.

Right.

Well, then again, I guess like so much of this is about

like intention and impact, right?

It's also, you know, hinges on people actually listening.

Do you think if people disagree with us, they're actually

going to take time to read and listen to what we have to say.

Oh, no,

I can't imagine.

90% of people who think that we're just complete bullshit.

Anyway, they're not even going to like listen or care to understand

what our message is or that we actually deeply deeply care about

their healing as white people.

I know, but that's just like the way that council culture has like

just encroached anti-racism culture and it's like of Angela and sad.

Like cancel culture is white supremacists culture, and it's so easy to fall

into and we just have to keep going.

And like Fred said, welcome them.

Welcome.

Welcome.

Welcome.

No, but I totally hear what you're saying.

Yeah, we should probably get this started because this is already a longer.

Let's do it.

Okay.