If you have ever named your symptoms one by one, the phone, the late-night scrolling, the drink that was supposed to be the last, this conversation is for you. It is for anyone who senses the problem runs deeper than any single habit.

Justin L. Shaw calls that deeper root spiritual bankruptcy. With humor and hard-won honesty, he explores shadow work, soul sickness, and what it actually takes to feed the part of you that has been starving.

About the Guest:

Justin L. Shaw is a former stand-up comedian, author, and self-described "little bit Deepak and little bit Tupac." After years navigating trauma, addiction, and the US health system, he wrote Sourcery 101: 13 Rungs to a Higher Elevation of Consciousness, a healing framework inspired by the twelve steps but expanded to address all forms of soul sickness.

Key Takeaways:

• Many separate struggles can branch from one shared root, what Justin calls spiritual bankruptcy.
• The shadow is not you. You are the awareness of it, and that distinction is where healing starts.
• Doctors set the physical bone, but the emotional and spiritual bone needs setting too.
• Curiosity and gratitude sit close together, and there is a lot of healing in the space between them.
• Question your thoughts and feelings before they become actions, rather than running on autopilot.

Connect With Justin L. Shaw:

• Website: awakenthesourcerer.com
• Book, Sourcery 101: available on Amazon, or search "Justin L. Shaw"
• Instagram: @sourcerer_thirteen
• Email: [email protected] (he will gladly send a PDF if you cannot afford the book)

Episode Chapters:

[00:00] Naming the Symptoms, why treating branches never quite holds

[02:30] What Younger Justin Needed to Hear, hope, and the slice-of-pizza self (approx.) [08:00] Spiritual Bankruptcy in Plain Language, trauma, limiting beliefs, and the shadow (approx.)

[13:00] Who Is Driving Your Car, the shadow in the driver, passenger, and back seat (approx.) [18:00] Setting the Spiritual Bone, why mind, body, and spirit heal together (approx.)

[24:00] Curiosity, Gratitude, and First Days, practical ways back home (approx.)

[28:30] Where to Find Justin, his book, site, and a free PDF offer (approx.)

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00:00:08 Archita: We have gotten very good at naming our symptoms. The phone. We can't put down the food. We can stop the shopping cart we filled at two a m. The drink we promised was the last one. We treat each of these as separate problems with separate plans and most of the time the plans don't hold. Tonight's guest argues that's because we've been treating branches while they root quietly keeps growing. He calls that root spiritual bankruptcy, and he's here to talk about what it actually takes to come home from it. Welcome back to Mind over Matter. I am. And today I am joined by Justin L Shaw, a former stand up comedian, author and self-described. Little bit deeper and a little bit stupid. Justin has lived through trauma, mental health struggles, heavy drug addiction, and decades inside what he calls the U. S sick care system. And he's come out of it with a framework he has just published as a book, Sourcery one zero one thirteen rungs to a Higher Elevation of Consciousness, inspired by the twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, but expanded to address all forms of what he calls soul sickness. The work is part healing baths. Part comedy, part spiritual reframe. Justin, welcome to the show. And it's such a pleasure to have you here today.

00:01:33 Justin L. Shaw: Yeah. Thank you. It's good to be here, there, everywhere. It's the it's the magic of the internet.

00:01:40 Archita: Absolutely. And hopefully this magic will help us, uh, you know, uh, convey this conversation to a lot of listeners who actually need it. So yeah, before we begin, there is just a general disclaimer to our listeners.

00:02:33 Archita: And now that we have this out of the way without wasting any time, let's dive into the conversation. And Justin, before we get into sorcery and the framework, I want to start with something simple. So when you look back at the version of you in the deepest part of that struggle, What's the thing you most wish someone had said to him?

00:02:57 Justin L. Shaw: Yeah, it's a good question. Well, you know, I would say that, you know, that there is hope and that is that is the that is the main thing. And it's what I've been anchored to for, for so long now. And it's really what I didn't have anyone to say, you know, when I was, I was struggling deeply. My mother, especially, you know, growing up as a child and, you know, dealing with all that, it just she was not good at emotions. She really she kept she would go in kind of depressive things and stay in her room and, um, you know, so and it was just me and her. So there was no brothers and sisters or, you know, dad had left when I was younger. So it was just, I kind of raised myself at times. So, um, you know, I didn't have that person there kind of, you know, saying, you know, you know, there's hope and, and also inspiring hope as well, saying, you know, that, you know, saying there's hope and then, but also bringing it out and saying, you know, there's there is there is magic in you. There's magic in every one of us. You know, I love to say, you know, a sorcerer knows they are special but not unique. So, you know, knowing that you are special and you are, there's this incredible force that lives in every single one of us. You know, I would have loved to know that at at times when I'm really struggling. Um, unfortunately, it's not something that, you know, even you go into a church and they're not going to tell you those things. They're going to tell you God is separate from you. It's out there. And, but that's none of that's true. Uh, so, you know, I just wish I had people around me saying what I know now, um, which is that, you know, I am this, you know, we are, I am, we, we're all just little slices of, you know, the, you know, the same pie. So, you know, if you take a pizza and you slice it up, which you have to do, you know, a slice of pizza is still pizza, isn't it? You know, it's, it's it's a slice, but it's still pizza and that's all. You know what we are. We're just these little. We're these glasses. We're. We're all coming out of this giant ocean, this ocean of consciousness, right? We're all coming out of that. And so it's like, it's like a, um, a glass being dipped into the ocean. And so that glass is now separate from its source material. That glass lives, its life, does its own thing and, you know, lives its life separate from the source material. And then when the time is up, we just get poured back into the ocean. And so it's this and it's just this, this, this cycle, you know, that we're going through and, you know, nothing is permanent and you know, everything, everything can be healed. Everything can be changed. It just is a matter of how to do it. So I would say that a little long winded answer, but those things were would have been really helpful in times of need.

00:05:51 Archita: Wow. That's that's a great place to start this conversation. Justin and I, I'm sure this is definitely something that younger Justin would have wanted to hear, but I'm so glad. And it's really fascinating to think that, uh, you are here in a place where you're able to tell these things to people, uh, you know, these things that the younger you would have wanted to hear. So that's, that's actually something to be really proud of. And I'm, I'm so glad you're here in this space today. And this, this really sets the tone for this conversation. And this also makes all of us more curious about how you really navigated through this journey by yourself. So that brings me to another point. Um, you have named something a lot of people sense, but rarely say out loud that the addictions, the chronic illness, the phone obsessions, the compulsive shopping all branch out from the same root. So, Justin, what is spiritually bankrupt spiritual bankruptcy, actually, in plain language. And how does someone know they're standing in it?

00:07:00 Justin L. Shaw: It's yeah, it's it's trauma. It's, it's limiting beliefs and trauma. And that's what creates spiritual bankruptcy. And spiritual bankruptcy is what motivates our shadow. Um, so they're all tied in together and, you know, we don't have time to get into, you know, every aspect of the thirteen rungs. But the first one is, is shadow work. And, uh, spiritual bankruptcy is the power source for the shadow. The shadow is the separate source of us. It is, it is not us. We are the awareness of the shadow, not the shadow itself. The shadow wants to be destructive and it can be destructive in various ways. So this is what spiritual bankruptcy looks like is when your shadow is in charge. So the shadow can be in three spots in the in the in the car, right. So it's metaphorical car. If your shadow, which is made up of limiting beliefs and traumas, it's it's it is. And it is fueled by spiritual bankruptcy. If your shadow is driving your car, it's going to drive off the cliff every time. Every time. You know, you could go get your car, you could put it back on the road. It's going to drive off the cliff again. It's going to constantly be driving off the cliff because your shadow is driving your car. And we see this in, you know, the unfortunate people that, you know are homeless. They can't get control of their lives. They can't hold on jobs. They can't live normal lives. Their shadow is running, is driving their car, and it's just continuing to drive. And you can always move the shadow. But a lot of people don't understand what the concept is. So, you know, they'll get help and they'll get claim. They'll go right back because the shadow is still there and it hasn't been moved. So, you know, then you can be in the, in the passenger seat, which is still pretty, uh, involved in the conversation. Right. You know, someone in the passenger seat, it's very you're talking with them. You're engaging with them. Um, for me, you know, I, my, my shadow has been in each car spot. I have been in, I have been on, I've spent nights in streets and jails and rehab centers and halfway houses. I have been there, so my shadow has been driving the car at times and. And then in my in my late twenties, I decided to get sober. And so now the shadow moved into my passenger seat, but it was still too involved in my life. These limiting beliefs, the spiritual bankruptcy. It's it it, it was it was talking to me. And in the form, especially in religion, for me, it was Christianity. And there's a lot of fear in Christianity. Um, there's a lot of fear to conform. There's a lot of fear. And that's how Christianity is run. It's run on a foundation of fear. And so I had, you know, this, the shadow for me was in the passenger seat. It was still talking to me, all these fearful things, trying to keep me, hold me back from who I am, who I could be and who I, you know, there's you told me I had a written a book, you know, back in the day, I would have laughed you off. It's just been insane. So, you know, I still had that shadow kind of holding me back from the greatest things where we want our shadow is in the back seat, which is you're just kind of checking out in the back. It's like a little kid, you know, you're like, you're checking on it back there, making sure it's the air okay back there, you know, do you need some Cheerios? Are you hungry? You know, just you're checking on your shadow. And just because you can't throw out of the car, it's a part of you. It's who we. It's it's a part. And that spiritual bankruptcy is there, but we can heal it. And so I like to compare it to heal the shadow, heal the spiritual bankruptcy. It's, it's, um, it's a bit like if, if you, if you were to fall off a, you know, a ladder and you know, you, there's, there's a, there's a place for doctors. Okay. There's absolutely a place for doctors when it comes to acute injuries, when it comes to chronic injuries, chronic is ongoing and it is caused by this root spiritual bankruptcy. Every chronic condition, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, autoimmune disorder, um, you know, cancer addiction, you know, depression, anxiety, I mean, all these that we label them different things, but they're all caused by one thing. And so any label can be considered chronic. It's just the medical community does not have the full grasp of things because it is it is the mind, body spirit. It is three things. Okay. It is those three things. And and they're and they're separate, but they're all one and one. And you have to pay respect to one because we're paying, paying respect to one pays respect to the others. And if you take away one, it completely eliminates the other two. There's just, just, just will destroy. So, so what's happened in the medical community is they've taken away the spirit portion of the mind body spirit and said, that's not that's, you know, a bunch of hokey. It doesn't exist. Whatever. So there is there healing will never happen if in the, in the, in the, in the, in the medical community with the spirit left out of things. And so this brings the spirit back into things. So I like to say it's like falling off a, you know, a roof and you've got a bone sticking out of, out of your arm, you know, you know, this is this is a great time for the medical community. You know, we, you know, acupuncture isn't going to do a whole lot. When I have a bone, I have a bone sticking out of my arm. You know, meditation isn't, isn't, isn't the best solution in the moment with a bone sticking out of my arm. I need a doctor to set the bone and do the surgery. But after the surgery, the doctor's part is done because what heals the body may what made the body heals the body. So in terms of trauma, we have to learn how to set the emotional bone, the emotional, spiritual bone. And that is that is what is so hard to understand with, you know, with these things. And the medical community will, will never understand how to set the spiritual bone because they do not believe the spirit is real. So therefore, spiritual bankruptcy will never be will never be cured by the medical community, uh, ever. Um, if they're going to, you know, I don't see a time anytime soon when they're going to start recognizing that the spirit is real and that we are spiritual beings and that that must be incorporated into every, you know, doctor visit, every single doctor visit. They should be asking, you know, how, you know, how are things, how is your, you know, how's your stress levels? How are you dealing with things? And, and they don't they completely stay out of that. They, they can keep it completely. You know, let's take X-rays. Let's, you know, let's see in here. Let's get you some pills. And so it's, you know, and that's that's that, that's it. That's where spiritual bankruptcy is, is being, is being just looked over. But it, it comes from the root causes of our traumas. And then which kind of form into limiting beliefs, our traumas will kind of morph into these limiting beliefs and hold us back, um, and make us sick, not only just hold us back from greatness, but it, they, you know, the traumas, if not healed, will, will continue to make us sick throughout life if we don't understand how to Set the emotional spiritual bone and let the body heal itself. So that's kind of what the system I created is, does it will set the spiritual bone to assist in that.

00:14:07 Archita: Yeah. I mean, I think, Justin, you have described it beautifully. And, you know, that distinction matters because if if we keep treating spiritual hunger as a chemical imbalance or treating chemical imbalance as spiritual failure, we keep missing the real work. And what you're naming is the layer most diagnostic systems don't touch. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners will be able to resonate with you over this. So I'm really glad you brought that up. And, um, just to know, for the person listening tonight who has been carrying their version of spiritual bankruptcy quietly, who has been telling everyone they are fine while something inside has been starving. What would you want them to hear from you before they close this episode?

00:14:56 Justin L. Shaw: Well, you know that it's the main thing is to kind of have a perspective on things because our beliefs and perspectives are, are everything. So what we believe in, in that moment, and we have to question our thoughts and our feelings before they become actions. So we're not just organic robots. You see a lot of society running around. They are biological robots. They're not questioning their thoughts or their feelings before they become actions. And so they're just robots. Um, so the, the, the key for, you know, anyone who's struggling or, you know, like is to start questioning things, you know, to question everything and, and to, to have and gratitude, gratitude is, is the foundation for healing. Find stuff to be grateful, grateful for. Uh, you know, I find stuff all the time. There's stuff that goes on in my life that isn't that is not great at all, but there's always stuff I can find to be grateful for. So in between curiosity and gratitude, there's, there's, there's a lot of, um, healing in that. And so I just, I implore people to, to question things. You know, I like to say, you know, there's instead of people always talk about, you know, it's the last day, live life like it's your last day. Well, you know, for me that doesn't look so good. I might end up, you know, I'll probably I won't do my yoga meditation in the morning on my last day and I might get drunk. And who knows, I might rob a pharmacy. I don't know, it's my last day. Um, so, you know, living life like it's your first day. Well, now it's a little bit different. Now you kind of have a curiosity of things. Imagine if you were just you were just generated into the simulation. You were just plugged in. You were just, you just boom. All of a sudden you were just here. First of all, you recognize, you know, there's a lot of beauty in the world. Um, you know, I think you'd get a lot of gratitude and say, wow, this is, this is really, really cool. And, and to have a chance at, you know, every moment you're creating a version of yourself. So change is happening as we're speaking. You're actually changing as you're. And so what direction are you going? There are many possibilities, limitless possibilities for your life, for anyone, for, for, for people's lives. Endless. And how to get there is where your energy is at. So questioning your thoughts and feelings, where your energy is at, because that's going to guide you to where you want to go. Because you're going to go someplace you might. Why not go someplace that you want to go? And whether that's just healing, whether that's, you know, finding a new partner, whether it's a new job, new life, you know, guide your life through your energy and you work on your energy by becoming aware of your thoughts and your feelings and, you know, meditation and things like that. And so those are all really easy, quick things. And if you haven't started meditating, that's another big thing. You got to get out there. It's just something you don't have to, you know, sit in total silence. You there are guided meditations, there are apps, headspace, calm, insight, timer, really good apps that you can get there are, you know, YouTube has guided, uh, but to, you know, to take time to meditate, to clear your mind every day, um, is something that I certainly must do to keep my sanity. Uh, and so that is something I also suggest to get out to people as well.

00:18:33 Archita: That's a great advice, Justin. And thank you so much for sharing that. I think a lot of listeners needed to hear this today, and I love how practical and grounded all the advice you've shared today is. And if there's something that I can take out from this conversation today is that healing isn't about fixing every symptom one at a time. It's about finally feeding the root that's been hungry for a very long time. And that work begins quietly the moment we stop pretending we're not the ones starving. So, Justin, thank you for reminding us that. And before we close, I'd love for our listeners to be able to find you, follow your work and pick up the book. So where's the best place for them to connect with you?

00:19:20 Justin L. Shaw: Yeah. So I get, um, Instagram, um, um, sorcerer underscore thirteen, so spelled with a U. Um, so sorcerer is spelled differently whenever we get into that, but you know, kind of source energy sorcery. So it's different than, uh, different than, um, wizards and magic, although it's, it's real magic. It's practical magic and it's healing magic. So it's sorcery with a U. So sorcerer underscore thirteen is my Instagram. Um, if you, uh, the book is on Amazon sorcery one hundred and one. Uh, you can search by my name, Justin Elshawe. Might be easier. Or you can go on the website, which is awaken the sorcerer dot com and um, or, and if you can't afford a book, I will gladly send a PDF. Uh, my email, if you want to reach out, it's sorcerer thirteen at gmail.

00:20:09 Archita: Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. And we will make sure to include all those details in today's show notes so that it's just one click away for our listeners. And thank you. Honestly, um, Justin, for bringing all the honesty, the humor, and the heart you brought into this conversation today. And if anything Justin said tonight reached you, don't rush to fix yourself with a new plan. Sit for a moment, notice what part of you got quiet while he was talking. That part already knows something. Healing usually begins by listening to it. This has been mind over matter. I margita take care of your mind. Take care of your soul and I'll see you in the next conversation.