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The Power of Presence: Discovering Your Inner Self Through Mindfulness and Breathwork With Herb Avritt
Episode 13 • 4th July 2023 • Mindful You • Alan Carroll
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On this episode of Mindful You, Alan Carroll interviews Herb Avritt. Herb explains how mindfulness is getting in touch with the machine that your spirit is riding around in. Avritt has practiced many different jobs and after suffering a traumatic brain injury he reinvented his life and became a psychedelic integration and life coach. We need to become the observer when doing tasks, when we can become the observer it changes everything that we are doing. Herb believes that when we appreciate and love what we see with our eyes we start to love ourselves and feel that love for ourselves as well. We are all a tiny piece of God and we are all one.

About The Guest:

Herbert has had a varied career ranging from business management, working in the semiconductor industry and being an entrepreneur for most of his life. His vast experience in a variety of areas makes for wisdom and knowledge that shines forth through his creative ideas and "outside-the-box" thinking.

When life threw him a curve ball in the form of traumatic brain injury, Herb did not let it stop him for long. He has worked the past 5 years to reinvent his life and recreate his reality by becoming a psychedelic integration and life coach, and is now helping others create clarity from the chaos in their hearts or minds.

About Alan:

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.

Personal: https://www.facebook.com/alan.carroll.7359

Business: https://www.facebook.com/AlanCarrolltrains

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aca-mindful-you/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulnesseminar/

Web Site: https://acamindfulyou.com/

Transcripts

Alan Carroll:

Our next guest on the mindful you podcast. I met a

Alan Carroll:

while back at an event called embracing the woo woo meaning

Alan Carroll:

that spiritual dimension of consciousness, that metaphysical

Alan Carroll:

dimension of consciousness beyond the ego, identity. And

Alan Carroll:

Herb was a spiritual coach, he described himself as a spiritual

Alan Carroll:

coach and entrepreneur. He has faced traumatic brain injuries,

Alan Carroll:

has gone through a healing and has journey down the mindfulness

Alan Carroll:

path. And now has tapped into that mindfulness, dimension of

Alan Carroll:

consciousness. And he also has gone down the path of

Alan Carroll:

psychedelic integration using medicines in order to achieve

Alan Carroll:

that stability. And that mental equilibrium and emotional,

Alan Carroll:

emotional balance and calm. It is with great pleasure, then

Alan Carroll:

that I introduce you to herb Hey, our vet, our next guest, on

Alan Carroll:

the mindful you, podcast. Welcome, welcome, herb to the

Alan Carroll:

mindful you podcast.

Herb Avritt:

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you

Herb Avritt:

for inviting me, I'm really excited to be out letting other

Herb Avritt:

people know what's going on, and, and helping them get back

Herb Avritt:

in contact with life.

Alan Carroll:

Absolutely, absolutely. And we were talking

Alan Carroll:

a little a little earlier about experiences of mindfulness. And

Alan Carroll:

I like to have an understanding if we had to define from your

Alan Carroll:

point of view of mindfulness, presence, emptiness, beingness,

Alan Carroll:

whatever word you want to use to describe that, that space of the

Alan Carroll:

headspace in from your experience, how would you define

Alan Carroll:

mindfulness and presence?

Unknown:

Well, it was, when you first went on your first read

Unknown:

the like, the pre questions like, what is mindfulness is

Unknown:

like, well, that's just being really present with yourself

Unknown:

that is, and then and then I read the more questions like it

Unknown:

was all of the terms that I use to define mindfulness, you have

Unknown:

the question of what is that. And it's really weird, because a

Unknown:

lot of those terms are part of what's called the woowoo. World,

Unknown:

the, the the spiritual world, the world, that's not the

Unknown:

reality that most people see the going to work the driving the

Unknown:

taking care of the kids and taking care of the house. And

Unknown:

that that kind of reality is what most people think of, of

Unknown:

as, as what's real as what's reality is. And mindfulness is

Unknown:

is more of figuring out you in that space. So instead of

Unknown:

becoming part of that space, you you mindfully, go into your

Unknown:

space while you're in those other space. So mindfulness is

Unknown:

getting in touch with the machine that your spirit is

Unknown:

riding around in, and paying attention to your vehicle. And,

Unknown:

and being with your vehicle while you are also driving it

Unknown:

around in life, in your day to day. So while you are taking

Unknown:

care of your kids while you are doing your yard work, you can

Unknown:

also be paying attention to you to your vehicle to how you're

Unknown:

breathing to how you're moving to what your body is telling

Unknown:

you. At the same time as you're doing all of these other things.

Unknown:

And that brings, that brings you back into life in a different

Unknown:

way. So instead of like life happening to you and around you,

Unknown:

you become a part of it. And there is there is that spirit,

Unknown:

it's not spirituality it is you just get more in touch with your

Unknown:

spirit, you get more in touch with life, you start to

Unknown:

understand that there is more than just what you're doing

Unknown:

there is the being doing it as well.

Alan Carroll:

Right, there's the there's the doing this and then

Alan Carroll:

there's the the being behind the dewiness which is the intention,

Alan Carroll:

what's the intention of the being and and and when you talk

Alan Carroll:

about, you know, how do you get to that being quality not caught

Alan Carroll:

into doing this, which is the manipulation of the things but

Alan Carroll:

get into the being space in which you're sort of the all you

Alan Carroll:

talked about pay attention. And boy that's left that's it. good

Alan Carroll:

one to have a little conversation about. What does

Alan Carroll:

pay attention for me means wake up. And wake up means observer

Alan Carroll:

and witness, whatever is going on rather than, rather than you

Alan Carroll:

are the movie you're watching while you're watching the movie.

Alan Carroll:

So from my perspective, so that's why I worded that way,

Alan Carroll:

how do you word it your way

Unknown:

I understand the analogies you're using. Most

Unknown:

people, when they start talking about mindfulness, they think

Unknown:

they need to sit still to be quiet, to get rid of all of the

Unknown:

distractions before they can get into that space. And as you in

Unknown:

for most people, when they start getting into mindfulness, that

Unknown:

is a lot easier. But there are like walking meditations, there

Unknown:

are moving meditations. And as you start to grow into that,

Unknown:

then that mindfulness and that meditation and that connection

Unknown:

to life can start to be with you at all the time. Now, that that

Unknown:

also takes paying attention is also a focus. It's like what

Unknown:

you're focusing on. So sometimes you're focusing outside of your

Unknown:

body on the task at hand. And if you can bring that observer in

Unknown:

that you're talking about that that paying attention, then you

Unknown:

can focus on you focusing on the task at hand. And that changes,

Unknown:

that changes pretty much everything about what you're

Unknown:

doing. And it can, again, we were talking about when we

Unknown:

started about how I drive and how I started noticing that I

Unknown:

was driving through postcards, and just seeing this amazing

Unknown:

beauty all of the time. And that that happens more in a

Unknown:

mindfulness state because you bring the observer along,

Unknown:

there's a lot of times where when I actually see these

Unknown:

beautiful things, I consciously go, Hey, God, this is really

Unknown:

pretty, I know that you're always seeing everything all the

Unknown:

time. But come check it out from this perspective, knowing that I

Unknown:

see you, I consciously invite you in to share this beauty of

Unknown:

you with you. And as I do that, you know that the observer

Unknown:

becomes me, I become the observer, but I also become that

Unknown:

which is being looked at as well. So it's one of the few

Unknown:

times that that I can see myself as beautiful as I see everything

Unknown:

else. Because that's one of the hard parts for me is because I

Unknown:

know how flawed I am, I know how messed up I am, you know, I have

Unknown:

brain damage, I hurt my head. And it kind of took my life

Unknown:

apart. And so that made me feel bad about myself. And so it's

Unknown:

hard for me to see the beautifulness of me that I can

Unknown:

see everywhere else. So when I can get in that state of

Unknown:

mindfulness and see the beauty and starting got inviting God

Unknown:

into witness through me, that is that is when I can start feeling

Unknown:

that beauty with inside me I can start feeling that worthiness

Unknown:

inside me. And that is one of the things that sometimes brings

Unknown:

tears to my eyes, because not only am I loving what I'm

Unknown:

seeing, I am also feeling that love for myself as well. And so

Unknown:

mindfulness is getting in that state where, where as you're

Unknown:

looking out and seeing and doing, then you can also be in

Unknown:

that same beautiful state. It's like when people go to a museum

Unknown:

and they see amazing work of art for the first time and it brings

Unknown:

them to tears. Well, mindfulness can can make that you can see

Unknown:

that everywhere. It doesn't have to be something that somebody

Unknown:

does, it can be what is here and what God created and what you

Unknown:

see in just everyday moments,

Alan Carroll:

hears of joy, tears of bliss is part of that.

Alan Carroll:

That mindfulness, stillness, place of beingness in which you

Alan Carroll:

begin to manage the thoughts better, because you can you can

Alan Carroll:

observe the thoughts now. And the thoughts are painting the

Alan Carroll:

narrative and if you can change the thoughts that you think you

Alan Carroll:

put you change the narrative, and all of a sudden, what you

Alan Carroll:

said is exactly the love and the end divinity in which we are is

Alan Carroll:

then available to express it through us. And in one of the

Alan Carroll:

Course of Miracles they talk about, God cannot do for us what

Alan Carroll:

God cannot do through us and through us means you. You you

Alan Carroll:

see the beauty all around all around you. And that leads into,

Alan Carroll:

you know, if someone was interested in mindfulness, which

Alan Carroll:

you and I are certainly, you know, what are some of the

Alan Carroll:

benefits of mindfulness? And you you just listed a whole bunch of

Alan Carroll:

them be like, All right.

Unknown:

Yeah, that that joyful state, that sense of tears, that

Unknown:

sense of love, that's, that's our normal state. That's, that's

Unknown:

should be where we are. And all of the stuff that we have the

Unknown:

society that's going on the, the halfing, to get a job, those are

Unknown:

all distracting us from that. So mindfulness is a way to get

Unknown:

underneath that distraction and get back to who we are that that

Unknown:

what we are that sense of peace and joy. And if you can start to

Unknown:

get there, then then the falseness of the or the

Unknown:

falseness of the distraction can start to fall away. And you can

Unknown:

start to touch that, that beautiful inner part of you. And

Unknown:

so that, you know, it's not, it's not that you have to go

Unknown:

find that it's like, you have to start peeling away the

Unknown:

distractions, because that is what you are. Because once you

Unknown:

find that, once it's like, holy cow, what was that, like? That

Unknown:

was you, okay, that wasn't something that happened to you,

Unknown:

that was you got rid of enough of the stuff around you to say,

Unknown:

hey, that what was that, that's the inner you, that's there all

Unknown:

of the time. And you just built this shell and you in society

Unknown:

has all of these rules and things to basically distract us

Unknown:

from that, so that we can interact with each other. But,

Unknown:

but once you start peeling that away, and you can find that

Unknown:

within, then if you get really good, you know, and it takes

Unknown:

some people years, years and years, sometimes their whole

Unknown:

life, to be able to really tap into that. And you know, I can

Unknown:

do it, sometimes I can't hold on to that space. Because there are

Unknown:

like said, there's a lot of distractions, and some of them

Unknown:

seem really awesome. But when you can get rid of those

Unknown:

distractions and drop into that space, it can be pretty, pretty

Unknown:

incredible and overwhelming.

Alan Carroll:

And when you drop into that space, her I would, I

Alan Carroll:

would describe that space as a spiritual spiritual space, a

Alan Carroll:

space beyond a metaphysical, spiritual, not non judgmental,

Alan Carroll:

being, everything just is kind of space. And you'd also

Alan Carroll:

describe yourself as a spiritual coach, is that meaning that you

Alan Carroll:

take people into that space? When you coach them,

Unknown:

I talk about it, I help them get there. But a lot of

Unknown:

times, it's something that people have to find themselves.

Unknown:

And there's a lot of ways there's a lot of entry points to

Unknown:

start getting to it. There's there's breathwork there's

Unknown:

there's different actual mindful tech techniques, like MBSR. And

Unknown:

and I don't remember necessarily all of that what the acronyms

Unknown:

mean. But I know it's it's mindful. There's lots of

Unknown:

mindfulness practice practices. And so there's a lot of entry

Unknown:

points to get to it. But the thing is, is a lot of people

Unknown:

then start thinking the entry points are, are what that is. So

Unknown:

people go oh, man, I was doing this breath work. And I felt

Unknown:

this amazing thing. Instead of saying, Hey, I used breath work

Unknown:

to do to get through the distractions to find myself,

Unknown:

they say it's the breath work that did it. No, you are the

Unknown:

medicine that is what you are. And the breath work is just a

Unknown:

key that unlocks the door that might or cracks open that window

Unknown:

to give you a brief glimpse of, of who you are inside of that.

Alan Carroll:

So this is I want to make sure I got that one. So

Alan Carroll:

the breath work, the conscious breathing, you're saying that.

Alan Carroll:

So that's the outer manifestation of some inner

Alan Carroll:

awareness behind it.

Unknown:

Um, more it's, it's, um, it's like opening the window

Unknown:

or opening the key. It's, it's a practice that you can do to

Unknown:

navigate through through the distractions and bring yourself

Unknown:

to a quiet place and catch a glimpse of who you are. So okay,

Unknown:

the breath work isn't isn't the isn't the thing that's making

Unknown:

you feel that way. Just like wow, that's a I haven't tried to

Unknown:

put it this way before. So he's trying to come up with an

Unknown:

analogy.

Alan Carroll:

I love analogies to I understand the good analogy

Alan Carroll:

is really

Unknown:

pretty close to the experience the ocean, you get in

Unknown:

a car, and the car, the car is how you get there. But you're

Unknown:

driving the car, you're going there, the car isn't taking you

Unknown:

there, you're taking the car there. And once you get there,

Unknown:

you get to be the experience. So the breath work is like a car

Unknown:

that you get into to go visit yourself. Or how does that does

Unknown:

that sound? Perfect. That sounds like a great analogy.

Alan Carroll:

I like the breath work is is what I noticed is

Alan Carroll:

that I can't focus on the breathing and be thinking at the

Alan Carroll:

same time. And it shifts the attention from a disembodied

Alan Carroll:

from from from the disembodied state of those illusion of those

Alan Carroll:

thoughts, those distractions, and it shifts it into my body.

Alan Carroll:

And that becomes embodied, embodied. And that becomes

Alan Carroll:

grounded and centered and anchored, and all the thoughts

Alan Carroll:

begin to fade away. And you mentioned the word

Unknown:

body, the mindfulness that because a lot of the

Unknown:

breathing techniques is is like you feel in your body, can you

Unknown:

feel your chest rising? Can you feel? Can you feel the moisture

Unknown:

on your nose as you breathe out? And can you feel it slightly

Unknown:

dry? As you breathe in? Can you feel the air twirling in your

Unknown:

sinuses? Can you feel it going down your your esophagus and,

Unknown:

and as you get into these sensations, and you really get

Unknown:

into this, what that is, is first takes you into your body,

Unknown:

and then as your mind clears, then that also fades away, and

Unknown:

you become the breath. And then after you become the breath,

Unknown:

then that also fades away. And then you're just kind of left

Unknown:

there with yourself. And if you can stand that, if you can, if

Unknown:

you can sit in that space, which the first couple times you do it

Unknown:

is it's almost agonizing, it's almost painful. And you will do

Unknown:

anything to get out of that space. Because it it just is

Unknown:

you're not people aren't ready necessarily to be able to sit in

Unknown:

that kind of beauty. Because it is because then when they come

Unknown:

back, it's like what did I lose. So there was this time where,

Unknown:

where I snowboard, I hurt my body a lot, I had problems with

Unknown:

my feet. And there was this one time I got a foot massage, I was

Unknown:

like my foot felt great. It was like finally it stopped hurting.

Unknown:

And then when the massage was over, like for the next two

Unknown:

weeks, it was so much more obvious how much my feet hurt,

Unknown:

but I didn't go back and get another foot massage, because it

Unknown:

was just so painful, that it was easier to get used to the pain,

Unknown:

then to get out of it and then go back into it. So a lot of

Unknown:

times when when pupils first start getting into this

Unknown:

mindfulness, they find this amazing spot that's just so

Unknown:

overwhelming. And then when they have to step back into their

Unknown:

life, it's it's, it's more painful, it's more distracting,

Unknown:

it's like, I want that. But I have to deal with this. So I

Unknown:

don't want to see that again. Because coming back from that is

Unknown:

so traumatic and uncomfortable. So and you know, when when you

Unknown:

and I first got together, I'm also a psychedelic integration

Unknown:

coach. And so psychedelics off, oftentimes will put people into

Unknown:

that, like really, really deeply into that space. And so then

Unknown:

when they come back out of it, and they have to go back to

Unknown:

life, it's like, all of that as possible. All of that is there.

Unknown:

Now I have to deal with all of this crap. Again, I want to go

Unknown:

back there. And so there's this destabilization, which is why

Unknown:

again, the integration is, so I'm important in the pre

Unknown:

coaching so that, you know that that could possibly happen. But

Unknown:

so that's why, you know, mindfulness, and a lot of these

Unknown:

techniques, you actually start teaching them, if you're a good

Unknown:

coach, you start teaching the people this before they go into

Unknown:

that space. And there's a lot of times where people can get into

Unknown:

that space without the psychedelics without the

Unknown:

entheogens without the medicine, because you know, we are the

Unknown:

medicine, that's just an accelerated and accelerated way

Unknown:

to get there. And so, you know, if you can get there through the

Unknown:

breathwork, through the yoga through the mindfulness

Unknown:

practices, through getting into nature, and getting in touch

Unknown:

with that kind of life and do it slowly, then you can build your

Unknown:

tolerance for yourself for that joyfulness. And as you move into

Unknown:

it slowly and back out and slowly and back out, then you

Unknown:

can become that more often. You bet. Now, now with psychedelics,

Unknown:

there's a lot of people who have been doing the breathwork and

Unknown:

have been been doing this for a long time. And then the

Unknown:

psychedelic is just like an extension of that and it helps

Unknown:

them go deeper and understand more. But where I came out, it

Unknown:

was through desperation with the head injury, my life was falling

Unknown:

apart. Everything was like just crashing around me. And so I

Unknown:

needed that reconnection with life. And so that acceleration,

Unknown:

though, does come with a cost because you get thrown into it,

Unknown:

and then you get taken out of it. But that does a reset, and

Unknown:

hey, I know that's possible. Now I can feel again, I can be alive

Unknown:

again, I can get in touch with with that which I am again,

Unknown:

because all of this damage, all of this pain took me away from

Unknown:

that. So getting back in touch with that then gives you the

Unknown:

space to start working back towards there more naturally, by

Unknown:

doing your own work. There is no getting away from the work you

Unknown:

do. You just can't get away from the work a lot of people right

Unknown:

now. You're smoking, you're cured, your depression, or your

Unknown:

anxiety. And you know, that's that's not true, you have your

Unknown:

you have as you get to see it, and you get a space that, Hey, I

Unknown:

saw that. And now I can start working towards that and start

Unknown:

moving towards that. So you know, some people can do this

Unknown:

one time and have this amazing experience reconnection and then

Unknown:

go for it. But a lot of people, you know, you still have to go

Unknown:

back and and do the work, you still have to realize that you

Unknown:

are that spirit inside, and then start trying to contact that

Unknown:

intentionally, mindfully. Right? Exactly going forward in exactly

Unknown:

actually make those changes in your life. Because if you're

Unknown:

living a life, that that causes you to get into that state of

Unknown:

anxiety and depression, and you you go do these experiences, but

Unknown:

then you don't change anything, when you get back, well not,

Unknown:

then that experience just becomes a memory and then it

Unknown:

becomes a faint memory and everything that was going wrong

Unknown:

is still going wrong. And those distractions pile up and cover

Unknown:

you up again. So you have to do the work to get right to get

Unknown:

through that to take that away so that you can then make the

Unknown:

changes to get in contact with yourself more often.

Alan Carroll:

And when you do you have do you have a practice

Alan Carroll:

yourself? If you do on a daily basis?

Unknown:

Um, daily basis? No, I have been trying for years to

Unknown:

set myself up a daily practice. And I talked about this brain

Unknown:

damage that I have quite a lot, it makes things really

Unknown:

interesting for me, there is so much that I see there's so much

Unknown:

where I'm in contact a lot with myself that how to say this,

Unknown:

that that it's not necessary, for me quite the same way. But

Unknown:

then when I start to get out of balance, I do have to step back

Unknown:

into my practices. And yeah, so I have been challenged in very

Unknown:

interesting ways. And unfortunately, I think I did

Unknown:

that to myself. Because so I've been out a lot of these tools

Unknown:

and techniques since I was a teenager. So 30 or 40 years. And

Unknown:

And at one point when things were going really well. And I

Unknown:

thought I had control of it. I basically challenged God is

Unknown:

like, Hey, God, I'm ready. I think I'm ready for the next

Unknown:

step. I want to start, you know, and God picked up Mount Hood,

Unknown:

and hit me over the head with it, and shattered all of my

Unknown:

practices. So I was I was doing so much things, right. I was

Unknown:

doing the breathing, I was making my decisions based on

Unknown:

love. It's like, okay, these are the decisions I have to make.

Unknown:

What is the most loving decision, it's like, it might

Unknown:

not necessarily be the most loving for me, but for the

Unknown:

overall whatever is happening, what decision would be based in

Unknown:

love. And I was doing the meditations and then I got hit

Unknown:

in the head really hard. And my business fell apart. I stopped

Unknown:

being able to do paperwork, I stopped being able to talk on

Unknown:

the phone, meditation when I would go into a meditation I

Unknown:

would come out of it in a rage instead of in a peaceful place.

Unknown:

I would like get quiet and and just like freak out. And and so

Unknown:

that that is my path now. So getting back from that I'm

Unknown:

learning so much more how to talk to other people about it.

Unknown:

So I challenged God to make me useful, and he smacked me upside

Unknown:

of the head. It is like, Okay, you thought you got it from a

Unknown:

place of ease. Well try it from this, this, this place where

Unknown:

you're messed up, you feel like you're broken. And now Now go do

Unknown:

that now figure out how to help people. And that's kind of where

Unknown:

I am now. So there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of these

Unknown:

practices that I have to sneak up on now. Because if I hit them

Unknown:

head on, if I was like, I'm going to go here, and I'm going

Unknown:

to do this like I used to do. It doesn't work for me. But at the

Unknown:

same time, I can also see where I was in other people's like,

Unknown:

Hey, I was here at this point, and you can go around it this

Unknown:

way, oh, hey, I was here at this point. And you can move this way

Unknown:

and get through it. So it makes me a better coach. But at the

Unknown:

same time, a lot of the practices that I had aren't as

Unknown:

effective, so I have to sneak up on it. So that's, this is what

Unknown:

I'm talking about driving. So when I'm out driving, and I

Unknown:

start looking at the beauty in the postcards and I start

Unknown:

putting myself in that space, I have to like, be distracted on

Unknown:

the outside to be able to get focused on the inside. And a lot

Unknown:

of people have to be cut all of those distractions out and get

Unknown:

to the middle, I have to be distracted to kind of get into

Unknown:

it now. So it's this weird place of, of Wow, how to say it's like

Unknown:

the guru on the mountain. So they're like these, there's

Unknown:

these comics, like the Wizard of it of the guy up on the

Unknown:

mountain, and these people climb up to the mountain and ask him a

Unknown:

question. And he gives them just like this really simple answer.

Unknown:

And their mind is blown. And they go down and they live. And

Unknown:

that guy is up on the mountain. Because he knows how messed up

Unknown:

all of this stuff is down here and he doesn't fit in that down

Unknown:

there anymore. And that and that's kind of me, you know,

Unknown:

fitting into normal life doesn't mean so well anymore. So I'm

Unknown:

like, I'm like Yoda in the swamp. Yoda got his butt kicked

Unknown:

went to Degas. And Luke had to go drag him out of the swamp,

Unknown:

Obi Wan got his butt kicked, went to live on a desert planet

Unknown:

under a rock. And again, Luke Skywalker had to go find him and

Unknown:

drag his brother, but and then they helped him, they help the

Unknown:

warrior go fight that battle. So I'm not the warrior out front

Unknown:

anymore. I'm not the guy who's leading the charge. I'm kind of

Unknown:

sitting back. And it's like, the warriors come to me. And it's

Unknown:

like, Hey, cool, he used the Force. Hey, cool, here's how you

Unknown:

do this. But that guy out front, being able to be in that space

Unknown:

leading the charge against the those forces, that's not

Unknown:

necessarily me in them anymore. So I like can sit back and I can

Unknown:

help guide people who are still in that fight, as I pretty much

Unknown:

sit back and work on repairing the damage of getting my own

Unknown:

butt kicked in that fight.

Alan Carroll:

Yeah, based on your own experiences, you have

Alan Carroll:

compassion for other people who are on that suffering path. And

Alan Carroll:

if you can reduce the suffering of others, through your sharing

Alan Carroll:

of your experiences, seems like a wonderful way to pass the

Alan Carroll:

time.

Unknown:

Yeah, somebody once asked me how I want to be

Unknown:

remembered. And and it was, it's actually something that I had

Unknown:

thought of before, not necessarily how I wanted to be

Unknown:

remembered, but how I kind of go through life. And to me, I got

Unknown:

to the point where everything is God. And so you are an

Unknown:

individualized aspect of God, God had to you know, God is

Unknown:

everything. How does God experience the universe? How

Unknown:

does God see what he's done? Well, he separates himself lower

Unknown:

and lower and lower until he can forget who he is. So I'm a

Unknown:

little tiny piece of God who has forgotten he is God. But the

Unknown:

amazing thing about humans and you know, it says it's in the

Unknown:

Bible we are created in His image. We are little tiny

Unknown:

fractals of God who have forgotten the the wholeness so

Unknown:

that we can then experience His creation and show him himself so

Unknown:

we know so for instance, I know I'm God but I'm not God. But

Unknown:

knowing I'm god, I can look around and and experience that

Unknown:

and then relay what he is back to him. And so that's also what

Unknown:

you are. So in. So we are children of God. So I know that

Unknown:

your God and that we are going to be sharing experiences in the

Unknown:

ultimate at the end. So If we ever if there is an afterlife is

Unknown:

there if there is this ultimate, then when we get together, I

Unknown:

want to be known as I saw you as God. And I tried to make God's

Unknown:

experience while interacting with me as positive and as

Unknown:

healthy as possible. So when I see people, when I meet people,

Unknown:

when I talk with people like this is a little being of God,

Unknown:

how can I make God's experience here better at this time? Now,

Unknown:

am I always successful with that? No, I still get mad, I

Unknown:

still lose my temper. You know, sometimes when people don't know

Unknown:

their God, they're inconsiderate, I get caught up

Unknown:

in the reality of the moment. So you know, I am not perfect. And

Unknown:

while I say I am God, I am not God. And I cannot. I cannot be

Unknown:

that all of the time. And also we are here to experience we are

Unknown:

here to get frustrated and angry and mad and all of that, because

Unknown:

that's also part of this experience is not just the

Unknown:

worship, it's not just the seeing how beautiful it is, it's

Unknown:

also to have this life to have this experience to to be all of

Unknown:

these things to get my head knocked into have all of these

Unknown:

problems, and then to find a way to overcome it. But if in that

Unknown:

when I can find these times where I can, I can be in this

Unknown:

space, to recognize the divinity and others. And for those

Unknown:

moments, try and make that person's journey just a little

Unknown:

bit better, a little bit more comfortable to know that I see

Unknown:

God in you. And as God is looking back at me to say, Hey,

Unknown:

I see you I know you're there. And I love you, and I wish the

Unknown:

best for you. And, you know, because that really is, to me,

Unknown:

one of the one of the most kindest things that I can do is

Unknown:

to try and make the experience not not for other humans, but

Unknown:

for all of these other little beings of God. And that is that

Unknown:

is what we all are.

Alan Carroll:

What beautiful ways of saying it her very, very

Alan Carroll:

nice. The you have that? The oneness, how do you you the idea

Alan Carroll:

is if there's no judgment, it's all oneness. We're all God and,

Alan Carroll:

and I liked the way you have worded it. It was very, very

Alan Carroll:

nice. And now we're going to be

Unknown:

gone years yearly to come up with that. And it

Unknown:

actually kind of started as a joke. And the question that got

Unknown:

me, that got me there is is there a place where nothing

Unknown:

exists? Because we use that word a lot. And oh, what goes faster

Unknown:

than the speed of light? Nothing what's greater than God?

Unknown:

Nothing. So there's like, is, is there a place where nothing

Unknown:

exists? And but I, I told you, my wife and I would drive a lot.

Unknown:

And so as I'm driving, it's like I am driving, I can't, there's

Unknown:

not a lot else I could do. So I would go into these thought

Unknown:

processes. So I wouldn't be driving around thinking about

Unknown:

this. And I got to the point where if nothing exists, there

Unknown:

can only be one thing that does exist. And it doesn't matter how

Unknown:

big it is, or how small it is, from the point of view of

Unknown:

nothing, there's only one thing that exists, because if there's

Unknown:

two things, if there's nothing between them, then they exist in

Unknown:

the same space. But if there if there are two things, well, then

Unknown:

nothing knows that their space, the distance and time that it

Unknown:

takes to get between the two of them. And it'll draw a circle

Unknown:

around it, make it one thing and then move away from it at the

Unknown:

speed of light to make it a single point. And so there can

Unknown:

only be and I don't know that this is true. This was just my

Unknown:

this is just the way I was thinking. And so then the joke

Unknown:

goes something like this. So if my wife and I are driving

Unknown:

around, and I am contemplating nothing, and she asked me what

Unknown:

I'm thinking about, and I say nothing. Am I telling her the

Unknown:

truth?

Alan Carroll:

And that's nothing,

Unknown:

right? Right? Because I'm thinking about nothing. But

Unknown:

but in the way I'm thinking about nothing, it's something

Unknown:

and so, with the with the nothing and the one thing that

Unknown:

exists, the one thing that exists has to come from nothing.

Unknown:

And that so the way I describe it is that the one thing that

Unknown:

exists is the body of God, the physicality of everything is the

Unknown:

body of God, and the nothing from which it arose, is the

Unknown:

Spirit of God. So what is greater than, than the universe

Unknown:

or what is faster than what is faster than light? Nothing? Yes,

Unknown:

it is. It moves away from everything faster, to keep

Unknown:

everything at the single point what is greater than God?

Unknown:

Nothing because God the physicality of God came from the

Unknown:

The Grand spirit of nothing. So nothing is the Spirit of God

Unknown:

it's eternal is the ocean upon which the first words I am were

Unknown:

spoken, which created everything. And so the one thing

Unknown:

that exists is everything. And that's part of what we are, we

Unknown:

are part of that everything, we are part of that one thing that

Unknown:

exists, we are an incredibly, incredibly tiny part of that

Unknown:

floating on an incredibly tiny planet floating on a really

Unknown:

small sun. If you think about the size of the suns in a

Unknown:

relatively small galaxy, in this ginormous thing of nothing. So

Unknown:

it took a long time for God to get away from himself enough to

Unknown:

be able to then start experiencing the grandness of of

Unknown:

the everything that he is.

Alan Carroll:

I hear you, I hear you describe, describe sampling

Alan Carroll:

that is nothing? And how do you describe nothing with something

Alan Carroll:

and you can't describe nothing with something. But you can

Alan Carroll:

start to create images. Right that what that one you created

Alan Carroll:

with the hands in one hand here and one hand here, there's an

Alan Carroll:

empty space there that you that you created. And so how do you

Alan Carroll:

create those empty spaces consciously. And then the way

Alan Carroll:

that a way of doing it is, is our mindfulness techniques,

Alan Carroll:

which which he raised to some things, and when you can erase

Alan Carroll:

to some things, then then you're left with nothing's, and like I

Alan Carroll:

call that space you, which is the fifth element, the fifth

Alan Carroll:

element is space. So you're in you're embedding the fifth

Alan Carroll:

element in the physical world, by creating those gaps or pauses

Alan Carroll:

between the somethings. And you become more spacious when you do

Alan Carroll:

that.

Unknown:

And nothing is also incredibly, incredibly small. So

Unknown:

they, they tried to find a smallest particle of matter,

Unknown:

right. So what they did is they took an electron, and if you

Unknown:

look at a at a atom, it's a proton and an electron floating

Unknown:

around it. And when they tried to look at it, it's mostly empty

Unknown:

space. So then what they did is they took the smallest thing,

Unknown:

they took the electron, and they broke it. And they found even

Unknown:

tinier particles. And even within that, it was mostly empty

Unknown:

space. And when they broke up, even this particles of that, it

Unknown:

was still smaller particles with mostly nothing. And it was so

Unknown:

more space. So even with all of the stuff that we actually see,

Unknown:

or we think we see, it is mostly made up of nothing. Again, the

Unknown:

particles that create it are so small, and the space between

Unknown:

it's so big, like the distance between the neutron and the

Unknown:

electron in an atom is greater than the distance between the

Unknown:

Sun and the Earth and the outer planet. So it's like, there's

Unknown:

there's so much space in everything. It's mostly made up

Unknown:

of nothing. And it's just these weird viewpoints that we have

Unknown:

that make it something. So how does God know the every thing

Unknown:

because that nothingness between everything is also God, but at

Unknown:

the same time, he's moving away from everything. And so there's

Unknown:

only the one thing and it's just this really weird way my brain

Unknown:

works that comes out that so this happened

Alan Carroll:

after herb did this happen after your accident

Alan Carroll:

that you had this breakthrough in consciousness? Are is, is you

Alan Carroll:

know, medicines that do it? Um,

Unknown:

that's a difficult question for me. So when I had

Unknown:

my brain scan, it came back as a series of traumatic brain

Unknown:

injuries. So the final accident was the straw that broke the

Unknown:

camel's back. But if you think about that analogy, if you added

Unknown:

one more straw to the candle that broke its back. That candle

Unknown:

was way overweight and he was hurt and he was in pain. He was

Unknown:

he was done. I had fallen out of trees. When before I was five. I

Unknown:

remember my I remember this when I was running across a

Unknown:

playground and I ran behind a swing set and got hit by

Unknown:

somebody swinging went flying smacked. The head had to be

Unknown:

taken to the hospital. I've fallen off Have I fallen off the

Unknown:

old slides. You know, when when we were kids. We had these big

Unknown:

huge tall metal slides. And I fell on out of slides. I got hit

Unknown:

in the head with a baseball bat. I got hit in the head with a

Unknown:

baseball and this was all before I was eight years old because I

Unknown:

left California to Oregon when I was eight years old. In those

Unknown:

those five or six I just listed there were all before I was

Unknown:

eight. When I got into where I in the Oregon, it's like I

Unknown:

played all sports. I played basketball, baseball, football.

Unknown:

Again, bad hops got hit in the head with baseballs, footballs,

Unknown:

I knocked myself out a couple of times. And then I got into

Unknown:

college, and I started playing or I started snowboarding. And

Unknown:

the first time I went snowboarding, I came home with a

Unknown:

concussion and whiplash. And I was so messed up, I couldn't get

Unknown:

out of bed for a week, I had to like pull myself to the edge and

Unknown:

then like roll out because I couldn't sit up because of all

Unknown:

and I was so hurt that I bought all of my gear, my snowboard, my

Unknown:

boots, my bindings, everything before I went up again. And it

Unknown:

was probably six or seven years before I bought a helmet. And

Unknown:

then once I got a helmet, I still concussed myself like two

Unknown:

or three times snowboarding. So it wasn't it wasn't a single

Unknown:

incident. So I talked about how I was into a lot of this stuff

Unknown:

since I was a teenager. So I was open to Reiki at 16. I started

Unknown:

doing the Merkava meditation in my early 20s, I did healing

Unknown:

touch, I did the bars, you know, I ran the gamut. Because I had,

Unknown:

I had superpowers when I was when I was a kid. I had an

Unknown:

ability to touch heal people, I, when I would start a

Unknown:

conversation with somebody, and then something would click and I

Unknown:

would start caring on both sides of the conversation. And I would

Unknown:

start talking about stuff that happened to them while they were

Unknown:

when they were children and, and how they could work through

Unknown:

issues with their parents. And then when I was and I didn't do

Unknown:

that intentionally, just kind of would take me over sometimes.

Unknown:

And my wife who I was dating at the time, she was around me the

Unknown:

most had happened to her the most. And it would make her cry

Unknown:

sometimes of how accurate and thorough what I was talking

Unknown:

about was, and it really kind of scared both of us. So I put that

Unknown:

away. I still have it, I can still do it. But I've put so

Unknown:

many locks on it. That is really difficult for me to bring that

Unknown:

out intentionally. And sometimes it's painful now. And so I put

Unknown:

that away. And then I started exploring, what what was that?

Unknown:

What was I doing? And so I went, I would go look at this kind of

Unknown:

modality and people and I would start learning about that and

Unknown:

say, and that someone would say, oh, yeah, this is all you need

Unknown:

this is it. And it's like, well, that doesn't explain what I did.

Unknown:

And so if you're saying this is all there is, then then you

Unknown:

can't be correct, because that doesn't explain what I did. And

Unknown:

I would like walk away from that, and then move to the next

Unknown:

thing. And then that same thing would happen is like, Oh, well,

Unknown:

this is all that you need. This is all there is I was like, No,

Unknown:

that doesn't explain me. So I would leave that and go to the

Unknown:

next thing. And after doing that for about 20 years, I got into a

Unknown:

conversation like this. And I realized this, like, you know

Unknown:

what, I took the truth of that I took the truth of this, I took

Unknown:

the truth of that. And I kind of made a grander narrative for

Unknown:

myself that that kind of contains all of this. And I

Unknown:

still in all of that never necessarily found out what it

Unknown:

was that I did or what I was. And then as I did start to get

Unknown:

close to that, then the straw that broke the camel's back. And

Unknown:

it was a really, it was a really bad hit. I was going down the

Unknown:

mountain as fast as I could. It was at the end of the day, I was

Unknown:

tired. And I did what's called high side I was on my toe edge,

Unknown:

I hit a bump, my heels rolled back, I caught the back edge.

Unknown:

And then I'm flying through the air down a really steep hill,

Unknown:

looking at the clouds. Actually, I actually have a story written

Unknown:

about oh, looking at the clouds, watching them peacefully drifts

Unknown:

through the sky. And thinking to myself, Wow, this is really

Unknown:

going to hurt when I hit the ground who really, really long

Unknown:

time to consider that. And it's like I also thought there's the

Unknown:

stories about how drunk people are the only people who survive

Unknown:

a crash and it's because they're all limp and they don't tense

Unknown:

up. So it's like, okay, can I just relax. So when this when I

Unknown:

do finally hit, I can come in. And I remember okay, just relax,

Unknown:

breathe, relax, and then pain. I hurt my shoulder, I hurt my hip.

Unknown:

I started seeing a chiropractor and an acupuncturist for that.

Unknown:

And during that my business started falling apart. I stopped

Unknown:

being able to do a lot of simple tasks. But I was more concerned

Unknown:

with the body damage and I didn't really consider how badly

Unknown:

I had hurt my head. And this was before all of the concussion

Unknown:

protocols and all of the stuff that that people talk about now.

Unknown:

So it wasn't The first time I hit my head, but it was

Unknown:

definitely God telling me to slow down. And I'm still, I'm

Unknown:

still recovering from that. But in that recovery, you know, I've

Unknown:

had to start talking to people. And I talk this way, I've always

Unknown:

been this way, you can go back to the people that I was with in

Unknown:

high school, and they will tell you this strange stories of

Unknown:

herb. When I worked at Intel, they call them herb isms,

Unknown:

because I would, there would be conversations, and I would come

Unknown:

in with these weird points of view. So I was always kind of

Unknown:

like this. But that last hit, took me out, slowed me down,

Unknown:

brought my life down to where I pretty much only have three or

Unknown:

four had three or four people in my life that I talked to, which

Unknown:

was my wife, and my children. And then, and then as I started

Unknown:

to come back to life to come back out of this, then people

Unknown:

started saying, hey, the stuff that you're talking about is

Unknown:

different. And I need to hear more of that. Or, hey, you know,

Unknown:

you're talking about this, and I tried to implement that. And

Unknown:

wow, it did amazing stuff for me. So these baling wire, and

Unknown:

string and duct tape that I have holding myself together, people

Unknown:

see that and can take these little things that I'm doing and

Unknown:

can like, apply them to their life, and they like, boom, take

Unknown:

off, and it's like, wow, I didn't know this was possible.

Unknown:

And it's like, sometimes that almost kind of makes me feel

Unknown:

bad, because it's like, I wish I wish I could, these things that

Unknown:

I was doing helped me that much. But it feels like they're just

Unknown:

barely holding me together. But as people, you know, take these

Unknown:

things, then they're if they're not as broken as I am,

Unknown:

everybody's broken, but not everybody's as broken as I am,

Unknown:

they're able to take these little strings and baling wire

Unknown:

and tips that are holding me together and use it to

Unknown:

accelerate their life. And so I'm I'm now trying to be more

Unknown:

sharing of this, bring this out more, I'm doing these podcasts,

Unknown:

I've become a coach. So I went through a coaching certification

Unknown:

program called being true to you, I started to do that as

Unknown:

part of my own healing after a psychedelic journey. And I fell

Unknown:

in love with the community, it so many people more understand

Unknown:

what I talk about. And they're looking for tools like this to

Unknown:

help their clients. And so I tend to be more of a really good

Unknown:

resource for these people. And I bring something to the table

Unknown:

that I still don't necessarily know what it is because like I

Unknown:

said, for me, it's duct tape and string and little bits holding

Unknown:

me together. But for them, it's like tools that they may have

Unknown:

forgotten or they don't remember, they don't know the

Unknown:

full depth of how they work. And because I've gone through so

Unknown:

many of these experiences that I'm able to somehow convey this

Unknown:

to them, even though it feels to me like I'm barely holding it

Unknown:

together, they see these things as like, Wow, that's amazing.

Unknown:

Let's show that to people. And I'm able to help people that

Unknown:

way. So it makes me kind of feel better about about, about how,

Unknown:

how messed up I am. But not because, again, I get to help

Unknown:

other people come more into their spirituality into their

Unknown:

life and to see life as what it could be.

Alan Carroll:

instead. Yeah, you talked about being God and you

Alan Carroll:

know, God can't be messed up. So the ego can be messed up. But

Alan Carroll:

the God God can't be messed up. You're where God so you have to

Alan Carroll:

sort of laugh at the thoughts of ya messed up, right? That's

Alan Carroll:

That's funny, right?

Unknown:

That's actually one of the one of the funny things I

Unknown:

say is like, the only thing that's not perfect in this

Unknown:

entire universe is my understanding of perfection. God

Unknown:

doesn't mean there isn't a single atom out of place in the

Unknown:

entire universe. So how come I feel so out of place? So the

Unknown:

only thing that's not perfect, is my understanding of what

Unknown:

perfection is.

Alan Carroll:

That's beautiful. That's very, very clear. That

Alan Carroll:

that's a postcard. Herb, you want to put that when a post is

Alan Carroll:

not done. When you take pictures of postcards. You can put words

Alan Carroll:

in that postcard. Yeah, go ahead and say it one more time for the

Alan Carroll:

audience. They say that one more time for the audience. And then

Alan Carroll:

we're never going to complete.

Unknown:

Okay, so, you know, everything in the universe is

Unknown:

absolutely perfect. Everything is exactly where it's supposed

Unknown:

to be. There is not an atom out of place. God doesn't make

Unknown:

mistakes. So the only thing that isn't perfect in all of the

Unknown:

universe, is my understanding of what perfection is.

Alan Carroll:

And understanding is made up of the thoughts that

Alan Carroll:

you that you think and if you can begin to erase the thoughts,

Alan Carroll:

you return to that mindful space of nothingness. Well, Herb, it's

Alan Carroll:

been a joy talking to work. Go ahead, finish it up.

Unknown:

Okay. And even that flawed perfection that that,

Unknown:

that the flawed perception of what perfection is, that's also

Unknown:

intentional, because it then allows me to show up and bring

Unknown:

these ideas to other people who think that stuff is broken. So,

Unknown:

yep, yep. So you can,

Alan Carroll:

you can make that connection and create that

Alan Carroll:

common ground, which makes them more trusting and more open to

Alan Carroll:

hear the the wisdom, the urbanism that you really are,

Alan Carroll:

you are, you are sharing your you've, you've traveled

Alan Carroll:

somewhere, you have experienced something, and you're not coming

Alan Carroll:

back on the trail, looking at other people who are on the

Alan Carroll:

trail. And you're saying, Hey, I've been up the trail aways, if

Alan Carroll:

you do this, this and this, it will accelerate you up the

Alan Carroll:

trail. And so that is a that is like a metaphysician that a

Alan Carroll:

teacher, I want to I want to thank you for being on the

Alan Carroll:

mindful you podcast. Also, if people want to connect with you,

Alan Carroll:

we'll have all your social media in the notes, is there is there

Alan Carroll:

something happening that you would like them to connect with

Alan Carroll:

you or ways to connect to you what's the best way to connect

Alan Carroll:

with you.

Unknown:

Now, probably the best way right now would be on my

Unknown:

Facebook page. And you know, I have the free gift, which is a

Unknown:

call with me. So a half an hour or an hour usually ends up going

Unknown:

a lot longer, because I have a weird sense of time. So unless

Unknown:

something is after the end of it, I just keep talking or

Unknown:

listening, whichever is more appropriate at the time. So you

Unknown:

know, set up a call with me, or hook up with me on Facebook,

Unknown:

follow me on Facebook. And and let me know you're there. And

Unknown:

we'll we'll keep going.

Alan Carroll:

Excellent, excellent. Herb, it's, it's, you

Alan Carroll:

are a traveler on the path. I love those things that you

Alan Carroll:

shared with with the audience. And also I liked it because I

Alan Carroll:

have I understand the nothings into some things. And so I It's

Alan Carroll:

nice to meet somebody who you can pass the football to, and

Alan Carroll:

they'll be able to catch the football and pass it back again.

Alan Carroll:

So I sense a real partnership and in our in our journey

Alan Carroll:

together. And I just know that there's, there's more, there's

Alan Carroll:

more for you to say. So I'd like to invite you back at some time

Alan Carroll:

in the future just to continue our conversation, because it

Alan Carroll:

really does make a difference.

Unknown:

I'd love to be here. And while it is great to be able

Unknown:

to play catch with someone who knows what they're doing. It's

Unknown:

also really awesome to teach people to start playing catch so

Unknown:

that you have more people to play with in the future. And so

Unknown:

I'm absolutely good. Starting to is to help people learn how to

Unknown:

start playing that game of catch.

Alan Carroll:

Beautifully said I love it. Well let's let's

Alan Carroll:

continue the game then. Thank you very much. Thank you again

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