In this compelling episode of "Dare to Be More," host Anthony Perl is joined by Principal Lisa Moloney and the former Head of HSIE Dani Rodrigues, who recorded this conversation before taking on a new role as Director of Students, Year 11 to Year 12, for a rich conversation about what learning for the future truly looks like at MLC School. From a student who used AI-generated voices in her podcast assessment to Year 9 girls designing climate health books for Sydney University, this episode is full of inspiring examples of education at its most innovative.

Lisa and Dani explore how MLC School is embracing AI not by banning it, but by teaching students to use it ethically, creatively, and critically — and how real-world partnerships are transforming what's possible in the classroom.

Featured Guests: Lisa Moloney, Principal at MLC School Dani Rodrigues, Director of Studies (Year 11 & 12) at MLC School

In This Episode, You'll Discover:

• How MLC's HISE faculty uses provocation-based learning to spark genuine curiosity and critical thinking
• A real example of a student using AI-generated voices in a podcast assessment — and the ethical conversation it sparked
• How MLC's partnership with Sydney Science Park brings real-world problem solving into the classroom
• Why MLC chose to embrace AI rather than ban it — and what that looks like in practice
• How the future of learning is about collaboration, agility, and comfort with uncertainty

Key Topics Discussed:

• Project-based and provocation-based learning in HISE
• Ethical use of AI in student assessments
• The Sydney Science Park partnership and real-world problem solving
• Preparing girls for careers and challenges that don't yet exist
• The role of educators as co-learners alongside their students

About MLC School: MLC School is a leading independent girls' school in Sydney, committed to empowering young women through academic excellence, character development, and innovative education. Our mission is to inspire girls to dare to be more.

Connect With Us:

• Website: mlcsyd.nsw.edu.au
• Instagram: @mlcsydney
• Facebook: @MLCSchoolSydney
• LinkedIn: MLC School

Co-host: Anthony Perl

Produced by: 'Podcasts Done for You'Hashtags: #FutureReadyEducation #AIinEducation #ProjectBasedLearning #MLCSchool #GirlsEducation #InnovativeLearning #DareToBeMore

Today I am joined by Lisa Maloney, principal at MLC School and Danny

2

Rodriguez, head of hissy at MLC School.

3

In this episode, we explore learning

for the future, including project

4

based and provocation based learning,

ethical use of AI and student

5

assessments, real world partnerships

with organizations like Sydney Science

6

Park, and how MLC is preparing girls

for careers that don't yet exist.

7

I'm your host, Anthony Pearl.

8

Let's begin today's conversation.

9

Well, hello everyone and welcome to

another episode of A Dare to Be More.

10

And this is gonna be a really interesting

conversation because we're gonna be

11

talking about learning for the future.

12

So let me first of all, welcome

Lisa and Danny to the program.

13

Welcome.

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Dani Rodrigues: Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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Anthony Perl: Well, I think we

should start by allowing you both to

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introduce yourselves, Lisa, for those

that may not have tuned into previous

18

episodes where you've been featured.

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Do you wanna tell everyone who you are?

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Dani Rodrigues: Yes.

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Lisa Maloney.

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I'm the principal of MLC School.

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Anthony Perl: And Danny, what about you?

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Dani Rodrigues: Hi, I'm Danny

Rodriguez and I'm the head of

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department hissy at MLC School.

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Anthony Perl: So why don't you tell

us a little bit more about what that

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actually means in the context as well?

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Dani Rodrigues: Definitely.

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I know HSI means a lot of different

things in a lot of different schools.

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Unique to MLC, the HSI department

is a dual curriculum department,

31

so both Nessa and IB courses.

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At this point, we are up to 22 different

course offerings across seven, three

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to 12, including mandatory geography.

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We have two elective lines, which is

global studies, our innovative pioneer.

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Outta the box elective, as well as

our traditional offering of commerce

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as we move into year 11 and 12.

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MLC is filled with plenty

of choices for our students.

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So we offer business studies,

legal studies, economics.

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We are nearly offering business

services starting next year,

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as well as HC geography.

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And then if we flip over from an

IB perspective, the offerings are

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equally diverse, where we've got

psychology, business management,

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economics, and geography.

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So in terms of that,

what does that look like?

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That's like a team of

roughly 15 to 16 people.

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We see every student in the school, and

we are lucky to enough to have really deep

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enrollments in year 11 and 12 with a 95%

conversion rate from stage five to a year.

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11 students in stage six.

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So we're quite blessed

and lucky in that stage.

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Anthony Perl: That is a lot of

opportunity people will have there.

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And I mean, Lisa, tell me a little bit

about what it means to offer that broader

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range of things and where learning for

the future comes into that as well.

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Dani Rodrigues: For sure.

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Danny sort of hinted there a little

bit about, I guess the elective, and I

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think that's the opportunity to really

explore what learning might look like

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at the same time as they're really

looking at what the world might look

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like has been something that the team.

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Danny Leeds has really harnessed and I

think so I might actually get Danny to

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talk a little bit about that, but that

this, I think this team is particularly

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well placed, both in terms of their

expertise, but also because of the, the

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nature of the course that they offer to

really start to explore what learning

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of the future looks like now and how

that might progress going forward.

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So, Danny, can I, I think one of

the things you were telling me

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about was, I guess, the use of AI in

some of the classes and how you're

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using that to enhance learning.

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I know there's been lots.

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There's a lot written about how it

may not enhance learning, but I was

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particularly impressed by some of the

work Danny and her team are doing.

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Yeah, not a problem.

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What I've got, the most innovative

thing we've done in our electives

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so far is we really questioned,

funny that we're on a podcast.

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We really questioned the

notion of whose voice is it?

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So the student had to work individually

and in global studies it's project-based

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learning, so they get a massive

provocation at the beginning of the

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unit or the beginning of the term.

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Something like pandemics are inevitable.

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Something really broad, open-ended that

crosses multiple spheres of psychology,

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geography, business, and economics.

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And they have a choice of how to

present their learning, and that's

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what draws students to his ease.

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That freedom and opportunity and

where AI fits in is it really gives

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us even more choices than before.

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So one student decided to do a podcast

and we were like, yep, that's great.

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We can do a podcast.

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In the unit of work, we go through role

of the media, perspectives of media.

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Features of a good podcast, features

of any, all the presentation mode,

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but we were really dappling in, okay,

I wanna have a podcast, but I have to

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do it myself, but I wanna interview

different people and to present my answer.

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I wanna have perspectives from the

media in my podcast, but I'm alone.

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So what she did was she typed up a

transcript and the class culture is

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so vibrant because everyone's just

presenting their view on that question.

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She got a few girls to read it just

to double check that all perspectives

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were heard, that it's balanced.

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And then she goes, me.

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So we speak a lot about ai.

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What I want to do is I wanna use

AI generated voices because then my

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podcast will sound like a real podcast

because what I'll do is I'll curate

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the voices to match the different media

perspectives, and it will sound like

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I have a lot of guests in the show.

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When she presented that idea

in our project Catch up, I

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said to her, that's great.

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We're gonna open this up to the class and

we're gonna talk about the ethics of that.

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Like is it still your podcast in the

presentation mode as we market, if you

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didn't actually say everything yourself.

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So who owns that piece, piece of work and

how are you going to decide which voices

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to use and when you put it together?

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And I have to mark the presentation

quality of that podcast.

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Where do we end up next?

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Obviously we always push our girls

to be to do next 'cause we're

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like, let's just see how it goes.

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So she submitted it.

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She wasn't happy with the voices.

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They still sounded very automated.

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It was still her transcript, her voice.

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When we did the gallery walk at

the end of the unit, girls listened

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to her podcast in the headphones.

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They were obviously critical about

some, something sounded a little

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bit robotic, but they all had an

appreciation why she picked different

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characters for different segments.

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And then when we brought it to the

marking team, it taught us to challenge.

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Okay.

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Our marking guidelines

weren't prepared for this.

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'cause when we wrote this task a term ago,

we had the very traditional presentation

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guidelines off well paced, well pitched

use of audio, kind of all of these

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really traditional senses of what you

think about with an oral presentation.

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And at the end of it we were like,

well, what are we actually assessing?

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How does that fit into a

very traditional framework?

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And I think that's where hissy is

the best position to really take our

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students to the next, because we kind

of think what is the future of that?

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But also how do we use it responsibly?

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And how did we breadcrumb our cause

for that student to feel comfortable

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to take that risk in her learning?

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And we know perfectionism

is so high in girls.

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I think what I love about that too is

that, you know, the future of learning

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is not just about the students, is it?

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You know, that whole process is about how.

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The department, the teachers, the

educators, are learning alongside what

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this type of technology means for how,

how we judge whether someone has learned

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and what they've learned and whether the

presentation was, what we expect is, I

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just love the fact that this is a journey

that we're all on together, and that

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as educators, we have to be open to the

fact that things are not how they were.

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But at the same time, there is

still real learning to be had.

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So I think it's a fascinating

topic and one that we could

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chat about forever, I think.

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Anthony Perl: And when it comes to

technology, I mean, sometimes it's a case

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of just because you can doesn't mean you

should as well as where can you push it.

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So it's a nice quandary to have.

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And I'm sure there's a lot of ethics to

cover it in exactly this particular area

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because what's real, what's not, and that

balance between responding authentically.

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And not just relying on

an AI to do everything.

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'cause I think that's

the value of it, right?

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We are just here, we are responding

to each other in conversation.

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And you can't script that.

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Dani Rodrigues: No, you can't.

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And, but I just think the purpose

of using it wasn't to make her

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podcast, you know, content wise.

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She wasn't just putting the question in

and putting all her study notes in and

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going, Hey, can you write me a transcript?

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She just didn't even, that

didn't even cross her mind.

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It came through.

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I have a problem, I'm not.

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She just was very open.

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I'm not a very good drum student.

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I'm not one of those girls that can

make all these different voices, but

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I want my podcast to be authentic, and

this might be as a solo contributor,

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how I could potentially get there.

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Obviously, I think when we think of

AI and assessment and research based

168

design, I think most teachers kind

of go through, oh, I give my students

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a research based task that they have

to submit at the end of the unit.

170

They're gonna put it into

chat, GBT or copilot.

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It's gonna type them up, a

summary, and then I'm gonna read

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a regurgitated version of that.

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But when you open your classroom with

AI ethics and you breadcrumb situations

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where you push different perspectives to

the students and how it could be used in

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an ethical way or how it could be used

next, I think we are less likely to get

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those copy paste assignments where we

are just reading what a bot's written

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and where they actually have the freedom.

178

To kind of use it in a different

way than what it was intended for.

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Anthony Perl: I think that's

the great challenge, isn't it?

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And it's so good to have an education

program that's offering students

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that opportunity to challenge the

way things are being done in the past

182

and, and looking at new technology

and how you can advance that.

183

Because for so long we were just

stuck in the old ways, right?

184

That we just had to do things the

way the education system had it.

185

And now actually looking and

being on the forefront of that.

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That's huge.

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And let me ask you as well, how

do, how do you reconcile between

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the students and what the parents

may think in that situation?

189

How do you find that balance?

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Dani Rodrigues: We haven't actually

had any parental feedback on the task.

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I think at year nine is considerably low

stakes at this stage for many parents.

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The most is if the students go

home and speak about it with their

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parents about how they've used it.

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We haven't had a lot of

academic misconduct in our team.

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Because most of our assessments are, as

you can see, like evaluative in nature.

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So they have to bring some kind of

version of themselves to the question.

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And I think we safeguard a lot by having

like group contracts, paired contracts,

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group check-ins, everything is structured

in a way where there's really no way for

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the students to hide in their learning.

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So the teacher as a facilitator

and also teacher as someone that's

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visible, means that we are responsive.

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And because our team is quite

tight knit every time we.

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A problem or something comes to our

desk that's new or unusual because

204

we kind of resolve it on the front

forefront of resolving it straight away.

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So it never really has to

get to a stakeholder where

206

we have this dicey situation.

207

Hmm.

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Anthony Perl: And you've given a

great real world example in that.

209

I'm sure there are others where

this is, you know, it's about using

210

real experiences, isn't it, in

the real world that are going to

211

enhance what the girls are doing?

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Dani Rodrigues: Oh, absolutely.

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And I, I, I might jump in next.

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I think this is a.

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Another, uh, really good example I

guess, of how you enrich learning and

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think about learning of the future.

217

We actually, as part of our strategic

plan, made it a, a deliberate pillar

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really around partnerships, around

the fact that the future of learning

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is not just contained within a school

classroom or even within a school AI task.

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The fact is that in

order for learning to be.

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Real sustainable and connected

to the outside world.

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We have to get out and partner with

some of those organizations and we're

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very fortunate that we have a number

of really rich partnerships across

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a, a wide range of subject areas and

professional learning opportunities.

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But Danny's team has once again

jumped on board here with that,

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with a number of partnerships.

227

I might get Danny to talk a little bit

about some of the work that they're doing.

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Once again, I think mainly at the year

nine level, but we've also got our

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similar project going on at year six.

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Yeah, so we do have a year six and

nine partnership with Sydney Science

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Park, which is run by Celestino.

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Essentially it's a Greenfield site,

um, located near the new airport, and

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it's gonna be converted into a mixture

of high to low density residential and

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commercial areas, commercial space, and.

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What we've done this year for the

first time ever, is in our partnership

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we've actually leveraged parents as

an expert, as well as experts within

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the Sydney Science Park offering.

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So what does that look like?

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Again, it was a, our first

ever AI embedded task.

240

So in the past, what we've had is

we've developed a task and it's been

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traditional, it's been what we thought

was innovative and the girls have gone,

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oh, we wanna do this with ai, or this

with ai, but this time we're like, no, no,

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let's just put it in the framework of the

task and you know, roll the dice and see.

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Kinda what problems or what opportunities

arise, and essentially the girls

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were given a problem statement.

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I'll tell you the most challenging one.

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So the most challenging thing for the park

is that they would like 40% canopy cover.

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So that means large trees.

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However, because it's located

near an airport, large trees

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that do not attract birds.

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So it was a process driven task.

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Again, something new and new

for us later in stage five.

253

But essentially the students had to

undertake primary data and secondary

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data, and one of their secondary

data sources could be an AI platform.

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It went two ways for

their primary data source.

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They could definitely use anything.

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We've got so many networks and so many

experts connected Sydney Science Park, but

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then we also leveraged our parent body.

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As a potential expert.

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So architects, anyone in renewable energy,

anyone in urban planning was kind of

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used there as well as to supplement it.

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Our industry experts that were on site

that were doing the raw data testing,

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the students had two approaches.

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Each group did something

slightly different.

265

Some groups put their problem

statement straight into AI

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because we said you could use it.

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So they went, find me a tree

with 40% canopy, cover that.

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Attract birds and they got

this massive list of trees.

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As you do, you get this

huge list of trees.

270

Mm-hmm.

271

And then they started Googling

these trees and they were like, I

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don't like the look of this tree.

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Or We can't get this tree in Australia.

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Actually this tree doesn't match

the soil or the climate conditions.

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So they were starting to find fault.

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Process.

277

And, um, a few groups said the, because

he allowed us to use it, we were

278

excited, but it actually generated

more questions and answers because we

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had to keep going back and quizzing

it because it wasn't getting it right.

280

And then they had to cross-reference

that to their primary data source,

281

which was their parent, their floristry

expert, anyone in an like architecture.

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Um, some groups did the AI first

and then used that AI answer

283

to cross-reference an expert.

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And discuss the tensions between

what AI produced and what the parent

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or um, partnership expert did.

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Uh, some groups did it

the other way they got.

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I think they did better.

288

They used it for experts first and

then plugged that into the AI model

289

and got the AI model to make more

detailed recommendations or explain

290

why certain trees fit that criteria.

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But that's what we mean by partnership

being the future of education

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is the whole point of the task

wasn't to get to the solution.

293

It was to understand that some

problems actually can't be solved,

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and it's the journey that you get

there and the twists and turns.

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So majority of the task was weighed

on that process, on how deeply they

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went out and spoke to people and how

they cross-referenced their data and

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the literature review that they did

and how they evaluated their data.

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This solution was weighted like

a fraction of the task, and it

299

really encouraged them to work out.

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Hang on, in real life, there's no test.

301

There's no.

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Massive three hour exam and

once I get into the workforce,

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I'm set and I'm good to go.

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There's gonna be genuine problems

in team building and solution

305

navigating and being agile and things

might not work in the first draft.

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So it was a really interesting way to

get those, our parents, our partnership

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and our students working together.

308

And some of the students just said at

the end, my, our solution is this, but

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we still don't think it's gonna work.

310

And we still think that, you know,

it's still gonna attract birds or

311

it's not gonna get 40% canopy cover,

but the best we could come up with.

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You know, tree X and it just took the

partnership to a next level because

313

maybe there might be an MLC student

who's discovered the tree next year

314

or, you know, solved the problem or

they've just crossed out a whole list

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of plants that may not potentially work.

316

Well, I love that because Sydney

Science Park has been one of those

317

partnerships that has evolved over time.

318

And just this morning I actually had the,

an interview with the year six students.

319

'cause the year six students are

also working on Sydney Science Cart.

320

Looking at it through the.

321

Innovation, sustainability, and

I guess what the future of the

322

development might look like in

terms of use of heat and energy.

323

So my interview this morning was me

being questioned with my background as

324

a science teacher around how renewable

materials, how that sort of coincides

325

with the need to be sustainable,

but then also be heat resistant.

326

The fact that it's out in an open

area where there could be fires.

327

So this partnership has multiple layers.

328

Obviously the level at which the students

engage can vary according to the student's

329

interest, their stage of learning

and, but also just that creativity and

330

what we know about the future of work.

331

And what we're hearing from, I guess,

those who, who work in the space beyond

332

school is that what they want is people

who come out into the workforce with

333

that curiosity, that ability to work

with other people, the ability to.

334

Harness the information from AI and

experts and bring it all together to come

335

up with possible solutions rather than

someone who can come out and say, well,

336

I answered a three hour exam perfectly

by giving back all the information that

337

was fed into me during my schooling.

338

So this is the challenge, is to

create these environments where

339

the girls can genuinely explore,

question, work together, collaborate,

340

and be comfortable without coming

up with the perfect solution.

341

'cause that's also something that can be

hard when we're used to having answers.

342

Anthony Perl: Absolutely.

343

There is very rarely a perfect solution,

particularly in real world examples and

344

encouraging that creative and strategic

thinking is invaluable these days.

345

It's where the future is.

346

Dani Rodrigues: Absolutely.

347

And even, I guess the other thing I love

about these partnership opportunities

348

is although it's running under the

hissy team, the interconnections

349

between various departments, various

types of expertise, the fact that.

350

You know, me with the science background,

the girls are talking to me about

351

aspects of it, and at the same time

as they might be working with people

352

out in other departments as well.

353

So the, these partnerships really

do provide us with really rich

354

learning opportunities, not just

as students, I need to say, but as

355

teachers and even principals as well.

356

So it's lot, lots going.

357

Anthony Perl: There is a lot going

on there and I, I think, feel like

358

this is a topic that we could talk

for many hours on still, but we've

359

only got limited time in this episode.

360

But I just wanted to finish up by

asking the question, and Lisa, you are

361

familiar with this because we have asked

it in previous episodes, but I think

362

it's particularly important to ask this

in the context of the future learning

363

and and ai, which is a part of that.

364

What does DARE to be more mean?

365

Lisa, do you want to go first?

366

I

367

Dani Rodrigues: will because I think we.

368

We demonstrated this

very early in the piece.

369

So when AI first hit, I guess the

education market, and I'm sure the

370

students had been working with it

for quite a while before we caught on

371

as educators that this was going on.

372

We had a choice to make.

373

We had a choice to make, and some

schools went down the Let's Ban It path.

374

And there was a lot in the media about

schools, departments who had decided, no,

375

we are not allowing AI in schools, but as

a school community, we made the decision.

376

No.

377

We weren't gonna try and ban it.

378

We are gonna be daring.

379

We were going to model what

it is that we talked about,

380

but what we were going to do.

381

Dare to look at how AI

could enhance learning.

382

How could AI help us as educators

to be efficient in our practice, but

383

mainly how could it affect learning

for the girls in a positive way?

384

Now, obviously that's been a journey and

Danny's been at the forefront of that

385

journey, but that I think is what it means

for us at or did in those early stages.

386

It.

387

Let's just see how we can utilize this.

388

Let's not just pull down the shutters

and say, no, let's look at if as

389

a school who says, we dare to be

more what that actually looks like.

390

And I think we've been remarkably

successful and we've had a lot of feedback

391

from external experts about the, their

positive regard for the work that our

392

educators are doing in this space.

393

Anthony Perl: I think it's such

a wonderful way of presenting it.

394

And Danny, what about for you dare

to be more, what does it mean not

395

only just to you, but also maybe in

the context of the students that are,

396

that are actually doing some of these

things that you've spoken about?

397

Dani Rodrigues: I think for us, dare to

be more in the HSI faculty means giving

398

the students a space to take risks.

399

Being there to know that as a facilitator,

that you are in there with the risk taking

400

with them, so you are in partnership with

them as you navigate through the unknown,

401

and to be open to the ideas that they

bring, but also to push the boundaries.

402

Just because we've written a task

or we've written a guideline or

403

we have these fixed syllabus, is

doesn't mean that we can't push.

404

Syllabus or the learning to

that next level, regardless

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of what that would look like.

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And if it doesn't work, we will

all on that journey together.

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And we learn so much more for when it

fails in our face than when we do succeed.

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So I think that is the biggest

thing for me in girls' education, is

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kind of creating a space where the

girls feel like they can take that

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perfectionist cap off, they can take

a risk and it's going to be okay.

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And it's.

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To create a learning environment

where they can rely on their

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peers and their teacher as a

facilitator is the ultimate goal.

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I think

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Anthony Perl: it's how we

create a spectacular future

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for all of us, isn't it?

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Dani Rodrigues: Indeed.

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Anthony Perl: Thank you both for being a

part of this really amazing discussion,

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and as I said, I think we could continue

this and we may well do in another episode

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in the future, but for now, thank you

so much for being part of the podcast.

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Dani Rodrigues: Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Anthony Perl: Thank you for

joining us on Dare To Be More.

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If you enjoyed this episode, please

subscribe wherever you get your

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podcast so you never miss an episode.

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Your likes and comments also

help more families discover

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these valuable conversations.

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For more information about MLC School

and their approach to girls education,

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visit their [email protected].

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Check out the show notes

for more information.

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The Dare to Be More Podcast is

produced by podcast Done for you.

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I'm your host, Anthony Pearl,

and we invite you to join us next

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time as we continue to explore

what it means to dare to be more.