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Fix Your Anxiety with Faust Ruggiero
Episode 66 • 31st May 2023 • Clinical Flow with Physiotherapist Andrew Koppejan • Andrew Koppejan, PT
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In this episode, I am honoured to welcome Faust Ruggiero onto the show. Faust has been a practicing psychologist for over 40 years and is the author of The Fix Yourself Handbook & The Fix Your Anxiety Handbook. Faust teaches us to break the cycle of anxiety and dispel feelings of inadequacy, so that we are equipped with the tools necessary to effect lasting change in our practices and in our lives. If you want to learn more about Faust's work click here.

Outcome Measures 2.0: I'm building a web-based tool (called Clinio360) that will help physical therapists get below the surface of what makes their patients tick, click here to Join the Journey!

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Mentioned in this episode:

Sole

https://yoursole.com/us/health-professionals

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to the clinical flow podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Akopian.

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If you're a physiotherapist or other movement professional,

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who feels like you're stuck in a rut, then my podcast is for you.

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This podcast is focused on helping you unleash your best clinical self

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and move from a place of frustration to flow in your clinical practice.

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Each episode, I'll share strategies and approaches along with my latest thinking.

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On how to improve your clinical performance and keep loving what you do.

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This is episode number 66 and today's a special episode.

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And this episode I'm joined by FoST Rogerio.

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who is a renowned psychologist and author of fix your anxiety handbook.

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I know what you're thinking.

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Why is a physiotherapist, do I need to know about anxiety?

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As I share in my show, a recent survey was done in Canada and 33%

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of Canadians experienced anxiety.

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We touch on this topic as well as we dive into how we, as professionals

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can increase our happiness in our careers and workplace.

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To ultimately help ourselves reduce anxiety levels and in turn,

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provide better patient outcomes.

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I want to let you know that I also have a newsletter where I write

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about topics relating to improving clinical performance, head over to

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360 clinician.com to sign up today.

Andrew:

all right, so on the show today, I have Faust Ruggiero, welcome, Faust, uh,

Faust:

great to have you on the podcast.

Faust:

It's a pleasure to be here, Andrew.

Faust:

Thanks for asking me to come on board.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

So, maybe if we, , before we dive into, this, topic of anxiety and

Andrew:

overwhelm that can happen, for us as clinicians, I think.

Andrew:

Really an, uh, an exciting and, and interesting topic.

Andrew:

Um, maybe just share with, uh, with the audience a little bit about your

Andrew:

background, um, before we dive in.

Andrew:

Sure.

Andrew:

I've

Faust:

been a clinical psychologist, uh, for the last 40 years.

Faust:

33 of them in, uh, private practice.

Faust:

Um, everything from individual family, uh, substance abuse,

Faust:

women's issue, you name it.

Faust:

And I've done a lot of training for professionals, helping them to

Faust:

be, uh, become, uh, better, more efficient, um, happier professionals.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, Andrew: that's interesting that you

Faust:

one of the things we lose in, uh, the longer we practice is actually being

Faust:

happy in, in the work that we do.

Faust:

Right.

Faust:

So that's, uh, I think that's a, a really good point.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

You know, I, I think that if, if you don't like what you're doing, particularly

Faust:

if you're working with people, you know, their lives depend on it.

Faust:

If, if you don't like it, they're gonna pick up that vibe right away.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, you know, it doesn't take long.

Faust:

And, and then, and then they ask themselves if they did

Faust:

something wrong or, or is there, you know, what's going on here?

Faust:

Sometimes they don't come back, you know, and, uh, I just, I always

Faust:

tell people, ask yourself first, is this the profession you wanna be in?

Faust:

And if you do, Then there are a number of things you can do to be happy in it.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. And sometimes it's the profession.

Faust:

Sometimes it's, it's your own personal life or the way you, you know, you

Faust:

allow stress and things like that to build, you know, uh, you know,

Faust:

it's that old thing, you know, we have to take care of ourselves

Faust:

before we take care of other people.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. Andrew: Yeah.

Faust:

And you've written a book called Fix Yourself Handbook and uh, we were

Faust:

just chatting before we hit record.

Faust:

You've got a new book coming out that specifically speaks to anxiety, so

Faust:

maybe, maybe tell me a little bit about.

Faust:

what that book's about and, and what sort of prompted you

Faust:

to, to write this follow up.

Faust:

You know, uh, Andrew, I wrote the first book de deciding that I

Faust:

wanted to do something different.

Faust:

The te self-help books tend to do, uh, one topic at a time

Faust:

or two, something like that.

Faust:

Uh, my first book, the Fix Yourself Handbook, is 36

Faust:

chapters, 36 different problems.

Faust:

Uh, I keep them small and I give the advice at the end of the chapter.

Faust:

Uh, in terms of what people should do, when, um, we were gonna go

Faust:

forward, we thought, we thought about a sequel to that book.

Faust:

Then I decided, well, you know what?

Faust:

I'm gonna turn this into a series and, you know, we'll, we'll make that

Faust:

the flagship book because it is so diverse, and then start picking out.

Faust:

Uh, chapters or, you know, problems we see that are more important.

Faust:

So we now talk, talk about the fixture.

Faust:

Uh, an, uh, fixture self empowerment series.

Faust:

So it's gonna be about eight, nine, maybe 10 books.

Faust:

Uh, anxiety came next.

Faust:

I, and I looked at what happened after the pandemic and all those

Faust:

c you know, all the things going into the way the world's changed.

Faust:

Anxiety has just, you know, re risen tremendously, so, mm-hmm.

Faust:

. Now it was time to say, all right, let's start looking at.

Faust:

And, uh, you know, we have people that are doing what I do, what you do for

Faust:

a living, and they're doing it online and they're, and they're staying home

Faust:

and they're saying, this is great.

Faust:

It's so much easier.

Faust:

And I say, yes, and you're isolated and you're not seeing people and

Faust:

you're not going to, the places used to go there , it's not good.

Andrew:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew:

It's interesting.

Andrew:

I came across a stat of, uh, Canadians, uh, in terms of anxiety levels, and it

Andrew:

was between 18 and, uh, 39 years old.

Andrew:

They, they're 33% of them, uh, reported having, dealing with anxiety,

Andrew:

like that's, uh, that's a high

Faust:

number.

Faust:

That's huge compared to what it was.

Faust:

You go back, uh, before the pandemic and it was in the teens, 17, 18%.

Faust:

We've almost doubled it.

Faust:

And, and again, that's.

Faust:

You know, uh, youth, it's not estimated.

Faust:

It's actually what's reported, uh, what, what's not reported with anxiety.

Faust:

It's make it much, much higher than that.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. Andrew: And so do you think

Faust:

contributing to some of that increase?

Faust:

Or, or what, what's your, uh, hypothesis as to why we're seeing such an

Faust:

increase?

Faust:

Yeah, it is, uh, because what.

Faust:

As you start to develop a pattern where you like to stay home, uh,

Faust:

you're not challenging yourself.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. So that's gonna bring on anxiety.

Faust:

You're not in social situations as much.

Faust:

Um, so now we have social anxiety developing.

Faust:

When these things start happening now, we stay home and home.

Faust:

Looks like it's great and it's a comfort zone and everything's there,

Faust:

but those walls start getting, you know, closer and closer.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And, and, and your world becomes very small.

Faust:

You're not challenged.

Faust:

And then when things do challenge just a bit, you overreact as

Faust:

it takes you right out of that.

Faust:

Of that comfort zone, and you haven't been practicing all the things you do

Faust:

that normally, uh, you know, are there to deal with anxiety or, or, or risks,

Faust:

or change, all those kinds of things.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

. Yeah.

Andrew:

So let's, let's sort of talk a little bit more about this anxiety as it relates

Andrew:

to, you know, uh, as a professionals.

Andrew:

Uh, you know, I, I talked to, you know, a variety of physiotherapists who.

Andrew:

Uh, you know, share their, their struggle with anxiety.

Andrew:

Uh, they often can feel overwhelmed, especially when you're dealing with,

Andrew:

um, you know, a heavy caseload.

Andrew:

You're dealing with complex problems with people who are in pain.

Andrew:

Uh, you're trying to sort out what, uh, what's going on for people.

Andrew:

Plus you have this expectation of, you know, I've gotta get results

Andrew:

cuz they're paying me to, to, to get, you know, help them get better.

Andrew:

And, um, and so, you know, I, I really, I'm hoping that to, you know, today our

Andrew:

conversation can really help that that clinician who finds themselves really

Andrew:

struggling with how to manage, um, one's emotional state, um, and I think anxiety

Andrew:

can often really, uh, be at the forefront of that experience, uh, for them.

Faust:

And it can, and it also has a tendency to transition

Faust:

itself into depressive states.

Faust:

You know, now you're, you, you're, you're, you're so worried and you're

Faust:

doing so many things and trying to be perfect and balance this and

Faust:

balance that, and then you just crash.

Faust:

And then you get to the point where I don't want to do anything at all.

Faust:

And you know, you have to, you know, the first key, and with all

Faust:

of us, we're human beings first.

Faust:

We have personal lives, we have physical bodies that sometimes.

Faust:

doing okay and sometimes not doing so.

Faust:

Okay.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Uh, you know, we have to take care of ourselves physically, intellectually,

Faust:

emotionally, spiritually, uh, you know, we, we need to take,

Faust:

make sure those parameters, those life parameters are addressed.

Faust:

That's the first thing I tell everyone.

Faust:

You know, when, when I do, uh, workshops with, uh, uh, healthcare

Faust:

people and, and other professionals, they all come in, they talk about the.

Faust:

And the profession and you know, the managing the books and all the, and,

Faust:

and those are legitimate pressures.

Faust:

But what I'll say to this is, how come some people don't get burdened by that?

Faust:

They know they're there, but they don't get overwhelmed.

Faust:

And you're doing that.

Faust:

It's, you know, what's your stress level when you walk in the door in the

Faust:

morning, when you walk into your office?

Faust:

What's your stress level like?

Faust:

You know, that's the first check you have to.

Faust:

If you're, if you're getting up and saying, oh man, it's Monday,

Faust:

I gotta go in the office again.

Faust:

Boy, that's a, that's a powerful statement.

Faust:

Yeah, it really is.

Faust:

Versus it's mundane, you know, I know who I'm seeing and I'm

Faust:

really looking forward to seeing that person, and I like what I do.

Faust:

You know, um, I, I, I was, I've been doing this over 40 years.

Faust:

I was thought about retiring last year, but someone said, why don't

Faust:

you, I said, beside the outcry of people who said what, you're gonna

Faust:

go where, you know, I love doing it.

Faust:

I still have, you know, after I've been doing this since 1979 and,

Faust:

you know, I still look forward to sitting with people, um, even though.

Faust:

I did take a semi-retirement, I moved things into my house and

Faust:

I'm seeing people here, and I saw people throughout the pandemic.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Uh, you know, so I love what I do and you know, that's what I, I tell

Faust:

'em, the ingredients are a, keep your personal life, uh, in balance.

Faust:

And if not, get help for that.

Faust:

B, if you're not in the profession, you wanna be.

Faust:

It's either a different profession or make changes.

Faust:

Maybe you don't wanna work for this, this company, or maybe you want to go

Faust:

private, or whatever it is that you want to do, make some adjustments that,

Faust:

that are gonna make that better for you because, uh, you know, these are

Faust:

moments of your life going by and boy, you know, why spend them like that.

Andrew:

You bring up an interesting point about, you know, make sure that you're in

Andrew:

a place that you know is suitable for you.

Andrew:

Like, whether that's a, the workplace setting or whether

Andrew:

that's, you know, professionally.

Andrew:

And I know for myself in, in my own sort of career, it's, it's often been

Andrew:

hard to know, you know, is this just uh, a me issue or is this a, is this

Andrew:

a workplace or is this a profession?

Andrew:

You know, like when do I have to make a change and when is it that I

Andrew:

have to actually stick something out?

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

Do you know what I mean?

Andrew:

Like, there's that often that.

Andrew:

That, uh, hard balance to find, you know, what, you know, do

Andrew:

I need to just persevere here?

Andrew:

Uh, do I, is this workplace really unhealthy for me?

Andrew:

So, is there anything that you, you can suggest as, you know, sort of

Andrew:

some litmus test to say, okay, you know what, this is, this is where, you

Andrew:

know, it makes sense to, to persevere.

Andrew:

This makes sense to actually, you gotta, you gotta switch it up, right?

Faust:

Oh, I just lost everyone.

Faust:

Oh, there we go.

Faust:

Everyone come, come, uh, you know, comes up with that point.

Faust:

Is it me?

Faust:

Is it the place?

Faust:

I said, well, if, if you've switched three or four times and you're

Faust:

still not happy, then I'm probably thinking there's something with you.

Faust:

If you're willing to stay where you are, uh, but you're saying, gee, you

Faust:

know, I'm working for maybe this doctor or this, this, uh, corporate leader,

Faust:

whatever it may be, and I don't like this.

Faust:

Then you then that, that's a different set of circumstances for all of us in he.

Faust:

We all know in, in, in here, in this phase, and I'm sure in Canada

Faust:

it has changed so dramatically.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

I mean, I can go back five years ago and in the area where I live in,

Faust:

which is about 90 minutes, um, west of New York, 90 minutes east of Philly.

Faust:

So I'm right in, I'm outside of Metropolitan, but it's all right there.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

In this area alone, there were about five, six hospitals, um, six, seven years ago.

Faust:

Now there are.

Faust:

Not that they've closed up tho.

Faust:

The other two, these two are monsters now that are fighting each other.

Faust:

And, uh, it's a now a huge corporate structure.

Faust:

Doctors offices are being swallowed up.

Faust:

They're working for a few hospitals now.

Faust:

Uh, they are told how long they can see patients, uh, how much, how many

Faust:

patients they have to see in a day.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, how much revenue has to come in.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, um, uh, and, and they, and they must now, Medicine with a corporate model.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, which is, you know, it's, it's burning people out.

Faust:

You know, I thank, I always say thank God for me, I went, uh, you know,

Faust:

independent and stayed that way.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

I didn't have to answer to anyone, but, you know, uh, you go into a doctor today,

Faust:

many times they're on the computer while you're talking cuz they have to put your

Faust:

information in the computer where we used to have that eye contact, that slow

Faust:

kind of bedside manner as we call it.

Faust:

Well, that's.

Faust:

You know, been, been pretty much, pretty well phased out because the,

Faust:

uh, you know, when they're more concerned about when someone calls

Faust:

your information's in the system.

Faust:

Uh, yeah.

Faust:

That type of thing.

Faust:

And, and, yeah.

Faust:

So, so you're gonna see a lot of people are gonna, are gonna say,

Faust:

this is, I'm so stressed out.

Faust:

Well, you're not going in.

Faust:

To a relaxed environment.

Faust:

So now I go back to that first ingredient.

Faust:

You've gotta get yourself in order.

Faust:

Do I wanna do this?

Faust:

Do I wanna practice?

Faust:

Whether it's physiology, whether it's, uh, taking care of people's bodies,

Faust:

whether it's their minds, whatever.

Faust:

Do I wanna be in this field?

Faust:

Because if you're just coming into it, maybe you can adjust to those things.

Faust:

Those of us have been in a while, say, man, this is changing.

Faust:

It is not what I signed up for.

Faust:

You know, my whole thing was people and dealing with people

Faust:

and you know, hello Mrs.

Faust:

So-and-so.

Faust:

Gee, it's good to see you again.

Faust:

And you, and you might do, as you and I, when we started this, this podcast,

Faust:

we talked for five minutes before we even got started with the podcast.

Faust:

Yeah, yeah.

Faust:

That's typical what a doctor would do.

Faust:

You get that warmup phase and they talk and you might be there

Faust:

20 minutes and that's gone.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Because you gotta be in and out in seven or eight minutes.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Uh, so you know, you have to know, do I want to do this in this environment

Faust:

and am I built to be able to do.

Andrew:

So it sounds like you gotta really, you know, do a gut check for

Andrew:

yourself to say, okay, let's, let's have some real honesty with ourselves in

Andrew:

terms of knowing if, if this is really the right place, you know, whether

Andrew:

that's at a workplace level or whether that's at a, at a profession level.

Andrew:

Um, so that you're not sort of, uh, deceiving yourself in a way.

Andrew:

Right.

Faust:

You know?

Faust:

Yeah, absolutely.

Faust:

And it's an interesting point because, you know, I look back 20 years ago, I rarely.

Faust:

Uh, medical professionals in my office, people, they don't, we don't seek help.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

We are people that help.

Faust:

There's that posture, there's that thing.

Faust:

I don't do that.

Faust:

And now, you know, in the last seven, eight years, I'm doing a lot more

Faust:

counseling with, and it, it, it's not that it's always long term, but it might.

Faust:

Two, three months where people are saying, Hey, I gotta get in

Faust:

there and see what's going on.

Faust:

Because, you know, I, I got maybe 20 or 30 years to work yet I got a family, I've got

Faust:

a home, uh, all this, and this has changed so drastically and I'm working more

Faust:

hours and, uh, you know, I'm not happy.

Faust:

And when I get home, my spouse or significant other says, you know, I,

Faust:

this is, I can see you're not happy.

Faust:

Down and you're burned out and you know, so what they're doing is coming

Faust:

in and, uh, and, and we're spending time, you know, getting to those

Faust:

core issues they themselves have.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

You know, and, um, you know, people go into our profession, like it

Faust:

or not, we're, we're caregivers.

Faust:

We like to help other people.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And we know when we're not.

Faust:

Yes.

Faust:

And it

Andrew:

doesn't feel good.

Andrew:

No, it doesn't.

Andrew:

And, and it's true.

Andrew:

It's, it's hard to ask for.

Andrew:

When it's yourself that needs . Yes.

Andrew:

When you're on the receiving end, right, because it's, there's definitely that

Andrew:

you, you know, you can, you can feel comfortable in the giving part of it, but

Andrew:

then it's like, well, hang on a second.

Andrew:

How, what am I doing to, to stay healthy?

Andrew:

How, how can I actually stay in a place that can give me some longevity

Andrew:

in the, in the work I'm gonna do?

Faust:

You know, I, I, I always use the analogy of people, I say,

Faust:

well, I assume you have a car.

Faust:

And they say, yes.

Faust:

And I say, well, it it, you need that to get you from point A to B.

Faust:

If you don't give it any attention.

Faust:

Either you're going to lose it or it's going to go into the

Faust:

shop for that two or $3,000 bill.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And while it's in there for the week or two or three, whatever it takes to get

Faust:

your parts, now, you don't have that.

Faust:

Your body, your mind, your emotions are the same way you're going.

Faust:

You're going in there and using them every day.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, you think a tune.

Faust:

Is a good idea.

Faust:

And that doesn't mean you have to go see a psychologist.

Faust:

You may form a group of 10 or 15, uh, men and women who sit down and just

Faust:

say, Hey, let's meet once a month, once every other week, and let's just

Faust:

throw some stuff out there and talk.

Faust:

You need to get that energy outta yourself because otherwise it spins

Faust:

inside you and, and it just, it does it, it just gets very negative after a.

Faust:

. Yeah.

Andrew:

And then, and then you couple it, couple it with what you said earlier

Andrew:

about this increasing isolation mm-hmm.

Andrew:

that we experience, right?

Andrew:

So not only are we having to give and we don't have a, a good, uh, you

Andrew:

know, healthy outlet, uh, for that.

Andrew:

Um, but then you, you increase the isolation that we have, you know,

Andrew:

socially, uh, you know, outside of work.

Andrew:

And so that, yeah, that's, uh, definitely sounded like a , an unhealthy recipe

Andrew:

for . For, for a professional longevity.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Faust:

And again, it's not something that has to challenge,

Faust:

uh, your feelings about yourself.

Faust:

You don't have to be calling the, uh, the psychologist, the psychiatrist

Faust:

and saying, I gotta get in there.

Faust:

I'm falling apart.

Faust:

You may, you know, you may be in that hospital system or wherever you may, and

Faust:

you may know, uh, other professionals, and then you might say, Hey.

Faust:

You know, why don't we sit down, you know, and we can discuss

Faust:

what's changing in the field.

Faust:

We can discuss our own personal stuff, put together a support group.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, I've, I've seen a number of, uh, groups, you know, get

Faust:

together and do those things.

Faust:

And it's, you know, it, it's, it's, instead of, uh, gee, I leave work

Faust:

and I go out for a few cocktails.

Faust:

Uh, you know, I, I go to my group and we once a, uh, every other week for

Faust:

an hour, We sit down in a room and we just throw information back and forth.

Faust:

Several things happen.

Faust:

Number one, you're with other professionals, so now you

Faust:

realize what you're experiencing is not, you're not alone.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

It's not specific to you.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

You have a network of people that will support you and they're in

Faust:

your field understanding what you do, so they also understand you.

Faust:

You know, you can talk to your spouse at home or whoever, but they're, if they're

Faust:

not in it with you every day, they don't.

Faust:

They don't understand it.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, uh, you get to then step out of the self, you know, I must care for others and I

Faust:

got some self-care going on in my life.

Faust:

So not only does that work well for me, it really, the reciprocity between

Faust:

me and the clients or patients I'm dealing with actually goes up because.

Faust:

I'm taking care of that part of me.

Faust:

I'm healthier.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. So it's just, and, and again, you're not alone.

Faust:

It's, there's so many good things to do it so you don't have to check into

Faust:

the place, you know, where, you know, you know, the people say, oh, he's

Faust:

going for counseling over there, cuz you know, we don't do those things.

Faust:

We're above that sort of stuff.

Faust:

So.

Faust:

But when, but when, uh, the high and mighty get together as a group that's

Faust:

accepted, you know, . Exactly, exactly.

Faust:

And now you can cry and do whatever you want behind the closed doors.

Faust:

. Andrew: That's right.

Faust:

That's right.

Faust:

Now it's approved.

Faust:

. There you go.

Faust:

. So, you know, um, I was reading in your book, uh, that's coming out,

Faust:

uh, about how you believe anxiety is actually a physical problem.

Faust:

Um, and I I thought that was really interesting and I was hoping that

Faust:

you could unpack that a little bit because, you know, to me, when I think

Faust:

of anxiety, I think of it as, you know, You know, it's an emotional issue.

Faust:

It's, it's my thinking that's going too fast.

Faust:

It's, you know, all those things.

Faust:

And so I, I'd really love for you to share what you're, uh, what

Faust:

you were meaning behind that.

Faust:

That's the question I get a lot.

Faust:

I go, oh, no, no.

Faust:

It's, uh, yeah, it's in my head.

Faust:

I start worrying and I said, let me ask you a question.

Faust:

I, here's how I tell everyone.

Faust:

Let me ask this question.

Faust:

If I, while you're dealing with all those things you think in your head, if

Faust:

I could snap my fingers and take your, your body level, all that acceleration,

Faust:

you feel right down, how would you feel?

Faust:

Could you sort that stuff out a little better and then it clicks?

Faust:

That's why go to the doctor and they'll say, here, here's your whatever medication

Faust:

out of an Xanax, whatever it may be.

Faust:

Or people are taking CBD oils and THC and whatever.

Faust:

It the, because what are they doing?

Faust:

They're not, that's not, that's not going in your head and

Faust:

sorting all your problems out.

Faust:

That's taking your body down.

Faust:

Gotcha.

Faust:

So it's not that, that's the only thing.

Faust:

Anxiety.

Faust:

It just has to be started.

Faust:

The treatment modality has to start there.

Faust:

We get people to learn how to calm themselves down.

Faust:

Then, you know cuz, cuz it starts in the body, it hits the emotions, and

Faust:

now you're reacting and then your head doesn't know what to do because your

Faust:

emotions have now taken all the energy that your brain is supposed to have.

Faust:

for your intellect.

Faust:

I mean, and that's the, the thing people have to understand is that, you know, we

Faust:

think emotions are in the heart and all that it, emotions and intellect are, are

Faust:

reasoning, abilities, are always fighting for space in the brain, so to speak.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

If your emotions are impacted, they're using up the energy of the brain

Faust:

needs to sort things out, which is why you feel the conflict and what

Faust:

it's all based upon is going too.

Faust:

Mm.

Faust:

Anxiety accelerates the body.

Faust:

That's what it does.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

It goes and everything amps.

Faust:

And anytime we're amped up, emotions get amped up.

Faust:

You, you, you, I don't, people have five cup of C cup, uh,

Faust:

cups of coffee in the morning.

Faust:

Their emotions are going up.

Faust:

I guarantee it.

Faust:

All you have to do is say the wrong thing,

Andrew:

Exactly.

Andrew:

Exactly.

Andrew:

. Faust: So, and they'll

Andrew:

You know, so my point is you start dealing with it first.

Andrew:

Learn how to, you know, decelerate.

Andrew:

Breathe a little differently.

Andrew:

Don't put the accelerants in that are.

Andrew:

Continue to accelerate your body, and then you're gonna try to mm-hmm.

Andrew:

, uh, calm down.

Andrew:

Um, be able, you know, put things that worked for you besides breathing.

Andrew:

Maybe it's meditation or prayer or yoga or whatever it does to calm your body down.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Get those things in your world.

Andrew:

Exercise, get your body healthy.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Um, get enough sleep.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

You know, a proper diet.

Andrew:

All those things.

Andrew:

When I, when I deal with people and they're, and they have anxiety, almost

Andrew:

everything I just mentioned isn't

Andrew:

working.

Andrew:

Hmm.

Andrew:

Even though we think that it's working.

Andrew:

Right, right.

Andrew:

Because we have, we do.

Andrew:

I'm eating well, I'm doing this.

Andrew:

Are you eating well?

Faust:

Well, yeah.

Faust:

Okay.

Faust:

And then I go through the diet and, you know, 80% of it's carbs, you

Faust:

know, . And I said, are you getting up when you get up in the morning?

Faust:

Are you fresh?

Faust:

Yeah, after my cup of coffee or two, I said, yeah, okay.

Faust:

How many of those do you have?

Faust:

You know, and it's that, and maybe it's a couple of those energy drinks and the

Faust:

sugar and the carbs that are going in.

Faust:

So you, you're not getting a good diet.

Faust:

You're eating late at night.

Faust:

Uh, maybe.

Faust:

And you now have some, uh, a GERD that's going on.

Faust:

Uh, yeah.

Faust:

So you're not sleeping well now you've got medications to medicate this and that.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And they're interfering with some sleep.

Faust:

You get up in the morning, you feel lousy, and you start the cycle all over You.

Faust:

That, you know, the, the, the coffee pot is on automatic, so when you get up you

Faust:

don't even have to wait five minutes.

Faust:

That's right.

Andrew:

Just how about IV

Andrew:

? Faust: You know, so I, I, I teach

Andrew:

Let's get your body healthy first.

Andrew:

Hmm.

Andrew:

Okay.

Andrew:

Now if there are, you know, extenuating circumstances, you know, someone's

Andrew:

being abused or, or you know, those, you know, they're gonna lose the house.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Okay.

Andrew:

About, by all means, those are things that we need to deal with right away.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

But for most people, let's get the body in order.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

and then we're gonna deal with all those things.

Andrew:

And, and when I have people in the office, and I've been using this

Andrew:

program for about 20 years, no, I've never had a person not get better.

Andrew:

Never.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

But you know, it's a program that you're gonna work.

Andrew:

It's not the, uh, you know, um, the quick fix or fix me in

Andrew:

10 quick steps kind of thing.

Andrew:

And I Exactly.

Andrew:

It's not, it's a lifetime.

Andrew:

It's what the, our bodies are there for our lives, and we have to be able

Andrew:

to treat them well for that time.

Andrew:

So if we, if I think about, you know, sort of, uh, work life and, and

Andrew:

how, how, uh, you know, sometimes you're in a, in a treatment room with a patient

Andrew:

and, uh, your anxiety starts to ramp.

Andrew:

uh, you know, you're, you're feeling like you're running behind.

Andrew:

You're not figuring out what's going on.

Andrew:

Exactly.

Andrew:

Uh, maybe you're, you know, maybe your perfectionist tendency is kicking

Andrew:

in, like, I gotta figure this out.

Andrew:

You know, in those moments, like, do you, like, what would you say to that?

Andrew:

Uh, professional is like, I just feel my anxiety skyrocketing and I

Andrew:

don't know what to do in that moment.

Andrew:

Right?

Andrew:

Like, you know, how, what, what can you do in that moment to

Andrew:

slow yourself down physically?

Andrew:

Yeah.

Faust:

If you have the option, the first thing to do is say, I'll be right back.

Faust:

Mm.

Faust:

Step out of the door and catch your breath.

Faust:

You know, if, if you're near an exit where you can get some

Faust:

fresh air, that's wonderful.

Faust:

And it might be 60 seconds.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

People are people, people are, are, are trained to wait in our

Faust:

waiting rooms for a half hour.

Faust:

I mean, yeah.

Faust:

So when you, they're already back there.

Faust:

They're in examining our treatment room.

Faust:

They're already there far as they're concerned.

Faust:

They crossed the first big hurdle.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And, and you just say, I'm gonna step out for one minute, just gotta get something.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

. And you go out and remove yourself from, from that environment so you

Faust:

can catch your breath, you know, uh, stretch is, uh, you know, stretch your.

Faust:

Get, get some of that and go, what what'll happen is those things right

Faust:

away typically take you down 10 or 20%.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Enough to get through that patient.

Faust:

Then you've gotta figure out, okay, how am I, you know, what do I need?

Faust:

And then, and, and so, That, that's the first step in those situations.

Faust:

But that should lead you to, to be able to say, okay, that's happened.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, if I'm jumping outta my skin, is it just high anxiety?

Faust:

Am I getting a panic attack here?

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, what's going on with my body?

Faust:

You may need to start seeking that help you've been putting off.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Because if you're to the point of anxiety attacks, either at work or at.

Faust:

You're in a dangerous place as far as physically, and also in terms

Faust:

of your ability to treat people.

Andrew:

Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Cause how are you gonna be able to think clearly?

Andrew:

Exactly.

Andrew:

Anxiety is ramping up that high.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

And, and you mentioned an interesting, uh, point earlier about, you know,

Andrew:

our tendency to, uh, be perfect.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Um, and, and I was curious to, to, cuz I think that, uh, you know, as professionals

Andrew:

I think we can, we often can have a bit of this perfectionist tendency in ourselves.

Andrew:

And so I was hoping, you know, to maybe just make, share that linkage in

Andrew:

terms of, you know, with anxiety and perfectionism and, and how do we sort

Andrew:

of combat that tendency when we feel like we need to be perfect in these,

Andrew:

in these situations with our clients.

Faust:

You know, you, you, you, we feed off what happens in a therapeutic

Faust:

environment when we ha when we're seeing people, and especially when we begin

Faust:

to know we're proficient at what we do.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, we expect that, and then we, and, and we deliver quality.

Faust:

And then people say, thank you so much.

Faust:

You are so wonderful.

Faust:

And they go tell their friends and their friends call and say,

Faust:

can I come and see you too?

Faust:

And before you.

Faust:

Our game has been upped, though.

Faust:

That's like a professional athlete who they say, you know, he's vying

Faust:

for the mvp and then maybe he gets it.

Faust:

Well, next year he comes, you know, comes up to whatever he, to the plate

Faust:

or, or the football field or, or the hockey arena or whatever it may be.

Faust:

And we expect, let's go, man, this guy is good, and the person buys into it.

Faust:

Well, what you didn't buy into is the fact that with.

Faust:

becomes a whole lot more energy being used up, and you are putting demands on

Faust:

yourself that not only were never there before, you don't know how to identify.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, it's, it's no man's land and you're there.

Faust:

And that's what happens with professionals.

Faust:

And we walk in, you know, and then we start doing things that, that, you

Faust:

know, we dress a little differently because, you know, well, we we're moving

Faust:

up and maybe the new car and the new house, and now it, it, it, it permeates

Faust:

other areas of our lives and we're starting to buy into this notion that.

Faust:

We're really good.

Faust:

So we expect that to continue mm-hmm.

Faust:

, and that that's living way, way above the, you know, the comfort line.

Faust:

It just is.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, we just need to go in there, humble and relaxed every day, enjoy

Faust:

what we're doing, and do the best job we can that particular day.

Faust:

We don't want to buy into, uh, you know, that, uh, stigma that,

Faust:

uh, you know, kind, kind of quasi celebrity status that we think we're.

Andrew:

Yeah, it's inter Yeah, it's true because it's, you know, you'll have, you,

Andrew:

you almost take on these expectations that the patient has, or the client has, has

Andrew:

expressed, uh, you know, and, and then it becomes really hard to live up to that.

Andrew:

And, and it's true that that situation that they may have heard of from their

Andrew:

friend or their family member isn't necessarily gonna translate into their

Andrew:

experience cuz it's, they have a different body, they have a different injury or a

Andrew:

different issue that they're dealing with.

Andrew:

But then it's true.

Andrew:

You do feel that increased pressure.

Andrew:

To be like, okay, I've gotta, I've gotta get this sorted out for them, just like

Andrew:

I did for that other person who, you know, in two sessions was so much better.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

. Exactly.

Andrew:

, Faust: exactly.

Andrew:

You know, you know, I, I sometimes counsel people who are, as we call

Andrew:

celebrities, and, you know, and what they'll all say is, I bought into this

Andrew:

notion that I was somebody that I wasn't.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

, you know, they, you know, the, the, the red carpet syndrome, that whole thing.

Andrew:

You, they, you can buy into that because you have to.

Andrew:

and everyone wants you to be it.

Andrew:

And then before you know it, you believe that that's who you are and

Andrew:

that's the level that you are supposed to perform at, which is, you know,

Andrew:

there's no solid foundation under that.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

There's no place for that to go.

Andrew:

So we don't want to buy into those things.

Andrew:

We wanna, and that's another reason why they'll go in and, and, and,

Andrew:

um, and maybe not like their job so much because what they don't like,

Andrew:

it's not the job they don't like.

Andrew:

It's the.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

And, and I always tell 'em, stop putting pressure on yourself.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

, go into your, uh, job every day, relaxed.

Andrew:

Uh, enjoy what you're doing.

Andrew:

Don't try, don't buy into being someone that you're not.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

And, and, and if you're doing that and you're taking care of yourself,

Andrew:

the kind of coincide, you know, they live together pretty well.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

. . Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew:

And I mean, I think that it, uh, you, you put yourself at risk of

Andrew:

taking shortcuts, uh, to try to get that result, um, that, you know, a

Andrew:

client has put on you in essence, you know, and, and it's, it's true.

Andrew:

We don't have to accept that, right?

Andrew:

I mean, it's, it just because someone has that expectation, I think it's

Andrew:

our job to help reorient their expect.

Andrew:

Something that's a little bit more realistic, or at

Andrew:

least temperate, , somewhat.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

Because, uh, you do,

Faust:

you know, and, and another dynamic that happens is we monitor our patients.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

and when they come in, if they're not happy, we, we, we might even at you.

Faust:

Okay.

Faust:

It's wrong.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

and now we're trying to find out why we didn't make them happy in that situation.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Because we don't want them to leave.

Faust:

That doesn't feel good.

Faust:

We maybe didn't treat them the way they needed to be treated.

Faust:

They may talk about it and say, I didn't think that he or she was that great.

Faust:

Yeah, and we don't want any of those things.

Faust:

So now we're feeding off.

Faust:

That communicative, reciprocity, that that happens in, in those settings.

Faust:

And you know, if you start getting caught up in that, you know, then you

Faust:

start monitoring the computer and look where I see how your rating is, whether

Faust:

they rate you okay, oh my God, I got two stars, or not five, and that's right.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

You know, you, you really start getting caught up in that when all they're

Faust:

looking for is that you're a good person, you're treating them nicely, and

Faust:

that you're efficient at what you do.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

That's.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Andrew:

So when you find yourself getting caught up in that kind of, uh, you

Andrew:

know, situation where you are sort of playing into that, um, you know, uh,

Andrew:

trying to, you know what I, what, what word did you use that reciprocity?

Andrew:

Uh, yeah, yeah.

Andrew:

Communi and

Faust:

reciprocity, yeah.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

, um, you know, do you.

Andrew:

You know, obviously there's that slowing down physically, but like

Andrew:

is there to start to shift how we're thinking our beliefs around that.

Andrew:

You know, it sounds like you almost sort of use a bit of a mantra for yourself

Andrew:

to remind yourself, uh, you know, like, slow down, be humble, you know, um, you

Andrew:

know, what, what else could, what else could, you know, can, can we be doing to.

Andrew:

Help sort of reframe some of those beliefs, um, for

Faust:

ourselves.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

You know what happens, and you were alluding to it a little bit bef before

Faust:

we said you cut corners and things.

Faust:

But we do all that because we get, we get proficient and we start

Faust:

taking shortcuts and we, we, I always use the term autopilot.

Faust:

We come in and we just, we can just go.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

the answer to your question.

Faust:

Slow down and get conscious.

Faust:

Get your mind back involved.

Faust:

What do I need?

Faust:

Ask yourself the questions.

Faust:

What do I need to do here?

Faust:

How do I need to be here?

Faust:

You, you did all that.

Faust:

We all did that when we initially got into the fields.

Faust:

Yeah, because we weren't quite secure.

Faust:

We wanted to be good.

Faust:

We wanted to learn more.

Faust:

We wanted people to like us.

Faust:

Now we got to a point where we kind of abandoned all.

Faust:

And it's, uh, you know, on the fly.

Faust:

And then we'll take a telephone call between this while I

Faust:

have a restroom thing here.

Faust:

I'm gonna go grab something to eat real fast.

Faust:

Oh, hi.

Faust:

How are you today?

Faust:

And you know, now we're in a whole Yeah.

Faust:

Because we, we know we got this and then we start skipping some of the steps.

Faust:

Yes.

Faust:

And those steps are usually the ones where we're bonding with the client or

Faust:

with, or, or we're, we're, we're asking ourselves, what do I need to do here?

Faust:

You know, before maybe we got the chart out and we looked

Faust:

and said, okay, yeah, yeah.

Faust:

Got this now we didn't mm-hmm.

Faust:

because we think we got it or we skimmed it, or the nurse or someone told us.

Faust:

So, so and so looks like everything's okay.

Faust:

Couple changes from last time.

Faust:

Okay, good.

Faust:

And we go in and we wing it.

Faust:

So the answer is go back and get your mind that people like to use

Faust:

the word mindfulness conscious.

Faust:

Get your conscious brain involved and say, who's here?

Faust:

Let me look at this.

Faust:

What do I have to do?

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, let's talk about wh where you are there changes, let's get into the process again.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, Andrew: sort of warm yourself

Faust:

Right?

Faust:

Like it's, uh,

Faust:

yeah.

Faust:

And if you want to get proficient at something, get, be proficient.

Faust:

Get good at doing that for every patient that comes in.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

You can do.

Faust:

People get caught up in this new medical model and they're making me

Faust:

go so fast and I don't have the time.

Faust:

Yes, you do.

Faust:

But if you're using your energy to just say, ah, heck with

Faust:

this, I don't even care anymore.

Faust:

They're just, well, every, everyone suffers, including you.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Slow down just a bit.

Faust:

Ask yourself, what do I need to do here?

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And, and, and if you do that, you'll go in, you'll get what you.

Faust:

And you know, is it gonna be a different animal than you, you

Faust:

know, you signed up for Yeah, it is.

Faust:

But you, it doesn't mean we can't manage the change.

Faust:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Well that's some, that's some great advice.

Andrew:

I, uh, I, I, I think it's good cuz it's, it's sometimes we gotta return to those,

Andrew:

uh, foundational, uh, elements, right?

Andrew:

It's sometimes look for the, the.

Andrew:

The special sauce, when in reality it's like, okay, no, let's just actually

Andrew:

physically slow ourselves down.

Andrew:

You know, that, uh, let's, let's get ourselves back into the

Andrew:

present moment, whatever that looks like in that situation.

Andrew:

Right.

Andrew:

I think,

Faust:

you know, you know, some of the, the best compliments I've had over the

Faust:

years are when people in my profession being a psychologist, they may see you and

Faust:

then maybe 10 years they may come back for something else or, and then they'll come

Faust:

in and I'll say, well, how is so and so?

Faust:

And I'll start asking questions.

Faust:

They say, you remember all this?

Faust:

And I say, well, yeah, I mean, this is what we do here.

Faust:

We talk about things.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And, uh, and, and I, and, and you remember that thing.

Faust:

And, and another thing is you're deliver.

Faust:

You're just like, you were 10 years ago.

Faust:

When I get that, then I know I'm on track.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

Because if they're walking out, you know, and, and, and they're kind.

Faust:

Okay.

Faust:

Well yeah, I think I.

Faust:

I'll call you if I need to get, I have some real concerns.

Faust:

I wouldn't want to see one of those, but when they come back and they're,

Faust:

and they're looking at me and saying, yeah, I really appreciate it, you

Faust:

know, and, or I see them in a store somewhere and I'll say, how's this son?

Faust:

And I give the son's name, and it's been six years, from seven

Faust:

years since I've seen them.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

They're looking, ah, you know what, and, and I mean, I, I'm, you know, 40 years,

Faust:

I've probably seen about 5,000 people.

Faust:

So it's not like, You know, uh, you know, I just have five and , you know, uh, you,

Faust:

you wanna be in this, you wanna be in it then do, you know, get in and enjoy it.

Andrew:

I liked what you said was this idea of bringing it back to

Andrew:

the foundational elements, which is get yourself to slow down, um,

Andrew:

you know, take care of yourself.

Andrew:

Um, and, and really do a gut check with yourself in terms of,

Andrew:

you know, am I, am I actually enjoying what I'm doing in my work?

Andrew:

And I think that's the thing that I think, uh, we sometimes forget to ask ourselves

Andrew:

is, am I still enjoying what I'm doing?

Faust:

You know, as you were talking, what popped into my head was what got

Faust:

me to be happy with this profession.

Faust:

Mm-hmm.

Faust:

, what is it you know about me and the profession that I liked?

Faust:

I need to go back and reestablish.

Faust:

Those are the fundamentals.

Faust:

Let me go back and think about all the things cuz maybe.

Faust:

Not that I lost them, I may have tabled some things.

Faust:

I may have made some changes.

Faust:

And in so doing what?

Faust:

Inadvertently, I just got away from the important things that

Faust:

helped me love what I was doing.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

I need to get back to that again.

Andrew:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew:

Cause it is easy to get sidetracked by, oh, I've gotta get this special

Andrew:

designation, or, you know, am I, you know, um, and obviously, you know, making

Andrew:

a living is important, but sometimes we can get too focused on, you know, what,

Andrew:

what are, you know, my billables per day.

Andrew:

You know, and that can take our eyes off of, yeah, what am I actually doing?

Andrew:

Am I in that zone where I'm actually really thriving, enjoying my work?

Andrew:

Um, and, and, uh, and keeping myself in a place where I can

Andrew:

actually do that day in and day out.

Andrew:

I think that's the, and that's becomes quite elusive after a while, if you're

Andrew:

not focusing on that, you know, we, we

Faust:

start this and often we're maybe we're unattached or maybe we

Faust:

don't have the kids or the house and the mortgages and whatever.

Faust:

And so we don't have all the distractors and those distractors.

Faust:

You know, that again, takes up energy for us to have to keep those things mm-hmm.

Faust:

and, uh, so, you know, we, we are now spreading our conscious, the way

Faust:

we deal things all over the place.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

I think that we just have to again, be able to separate all that stuff and come

Faust:

into the office and that's who we are.

Faust:

Hmm.

Faust:

That get back to that.

Faust:

And for some people that's difficult.

Faust:

I mean, for me, fortunately, you know, when I walked into the office,

Faust:

that's what I was dealing with.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

And then when I left, if I had other stressors, like every, and we all

Faust:

do at certain times in our lives and sometimes more often, then we

Faust:

deal with those, we go back to them.

Faust:

But yeah.

Faust:

You know, if, if we're going to bring the stress into the office, then we're

Faust:

gonna have more stress there, then we're gonna have stress everywhere.

Faust:

And it never seems to shut off.

Faust:

Yeah, exactly.

Faust:

It have to be good at, at separating that, you know, com.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

Com compartmentalizing those parts of our lives.

Faust:

Yeah.

Faust:

. Andrew: Well, that's good.

Faust:

Well, Faust, I appreciate you coming on the show and, and sharing from

Faust:

your many years of experience and, uh, and insights with, uh, with this

Faust:

whole topic of, I mean, not only anxiety, but I think just living well,

Faust:

which, uh, to me is, is really such an important, uh, element to being a

Faust:

healthy, you know, engaged professional.

Faust:

Right.

Faust:

So that's, uh, that's, that's been great.

Faust:

Well, you know,

Faust:

I've appreciated being here.

Faust:

Thanks for asking me on.

Andrew:

Okay.

Andrew:

Take care.

Andrew:

Yeah, you too.

Andrew:

Thank you for hanging out with me today and hearing about how you can improve

Andrew:

your clinical performance specifically around how to decrease your anxiety levels

Andrew:

and increase your enjoyment with work.

Andrew:

Make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Spotify to stay up to

Andrew:

date with our future episodes.

Andrew:

And I'd also encourage you to sign up for my free newsletter by

Andrew:

heading over to 360 clinician.com.

Andrew:

If you're looking to learn more about Fosse work, head

Andrew:

over to foster rozario.com.

Andrew:

That's F a.

Andrew:

U S T R U G G I E R o.com.

Andrew:

And I'll include a link to his website in the show notes.

Andrew:

There you'll find a lot of great resources as well as access to his book.

Andrew:

The fix your anxiety handbook.

Andrew:

Here's to less frustration, more flow and better clinical results.

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