The pandemic hasn’t been easy for business leaders. And that’s especially true for people leading businesses that physically bring people together. 

But rather than lamenting the challenges of the last 18+ months, Paul Glantz, co-founder and chairman of luxury movie theater company Emagine Entertainment, believes he’s the “luckiest guy on earth.” 

A CPA by training, Paul spent 27 years of his career at Proctor Financial — the last 10 as its president. The entrepreneurial bug bit and Paul started a company rooted in his passion for the movies. Today, Emagine operates 27 luxury theatres with a combined 23,141 seats and 244 screens in Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

The pandemic has proved to be a tough hurdle for Emagine. “To be candid with you, I misjudged the duration of the pandemic on several occasions,” Paul admits.

In this episode of Finding Gravitas, Paul talks about navigating a challenging business environment since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, including the company’s decision to continue to pay employee health insurance — after it was forced to furlough some workers. Paul believes in leading with empathy, but says keeping loyal employees is ultimately about “enlightened self-interest.” 

He also discusses how his company drives innovation and implements new technology. Although Emagine is known for introducing digital and luxury enhancements to the theater experience, Paul doesn’t see himself as a visionary. Instead, he views innovation as necessary for sustainability in business. 

“A lot of the things that we've done in our theatres, folks say, Oh, you've been such an innovator … this is great,” he explains. “Candidly, I think everything we've done has been largely driven by the need to survive.” 

Paul and host Jan Griffiths discuss what it means to lead authentically as well as how gratitude can inform leadership style. 

Themes discussed in this episode: 

• The “most difficult thing” Paul had to do in his entrepreneurial career
• Why business success starts and ends with great customer service 
• Giving back to more than 1,000 different organizations 
• How a fear of failure drives Paul’s desire to serve
• Admitting problems and acknowledging weaknesses
• Why it makes sense to put the interest of others ahead of your own 
• Being a leader who doesn’t like daily routines

Featured Guest: Paul Glantz

📽️ What he does: Paul is co-founder and chairman of Emagine Entertainment, which operates 27 luxury theatres in Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. An expert in the cinematic exhibition industry, Paul led Emagine to the forefront of dramatic technological enhancements.

💡 On Gravitas: “It's leading with conviction but recognizing you don't have all the answers, and incorporating the views and the input of others to help you form a better organization.”

Episode Highlights

[4:21] Origin story: Paul discusses his background and explains why he thinks of himself as “the luckiest guy on earth.” 

[9:18] When COVID came: Paul talks about the state of his movie theater business when the pandemic first hit as well as his mindset. “To be candid with you, I misjudged the duration of the pandemic on several occasions,” he tells Jan. 

[15:10] Leaders might not have the answers: Jan and Paul talk about acknowledging weaknesses as a leader. 

[14:32] Servant leadership: At Emagine Entertainment, teammates are treated with “kid gloves” and a lot of empathy. During the pandemic, Paul made sure general managers never missed a paycheck. He did have to furlough some employees but continued to pay their health insurance. 

[27:08] Tech and leadership: When thinking about leading with technology, Paul doesn’t consider himself a visionary. He shares how a disappointing opening night led him to make bigger investments in technology.

[33:12] Setting the tone with customers: Paul emphasizes the importance of customer service, noting that all success in business stems from pleasing the customer. 

[39:32] Ch-ch-ch-changes: Leaders need to move with the times. Paul reflects on adapting to change (even when it’s not convenient). “If we don't embrace change, if we don't recognize that there are perhaps better ways to do business ... I think we're doomed to failure,” Paul says.

[44:15] On Gravitas: When asked what gravitas means to him, Paul talks about leading while recognizing you don’t have all the answers. 

[49:19] No two days are the same: Paul describes himself as “the least regimented guy in the world.” He starts his days at different times and enjoys a mix of things in his schedule. 

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to Finding Gravitas, the authentic leadership podcast designed to help you break the corporate mold and allow your leadership to thrive. Gravitas is an irresistible force. It's the hallmark of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan as she guides you through the quest for Gravitas by interviewing some of the finest leadership minds. For more tools and resources to help you become a more authentic leader engage with us at Gravitas detroit.com.

Today, you'll meet Paul Glantz, the co founder and CEO of Emagine entertainment, I wanted to find a guest for this show, who truly understood the authentic leadership trait of resilience and heal better than the leader of a movie theater business during a pandemic. Paul shares openly his thoughts and actions and how we totally underestimated the pandemic. Paul is an authentic leader, he lives his life and leads in accordance with his values. He is very much focused on giving to others giving back to others, whether it's through philanthropy with other organizations, or to his employees, to his business to his clients, to his stakeholders, you will see this as a theme coming through in this podcast and in this interview. He's a humble man, and he has absolutely no problem sharing his mistakes. He sees the value in putting these lessons out on the table and talking about them and empowering others. by leading this way. You'll learn about that fateful night to the opening night that actually made him cry. You'll also learn about the way that he starts his day, which might not be as you expected. So much to learn in this episode. Paul, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jan. Pleasure to be here.

Paul, the first time I saw you, you're a cardboard cutout.

We call that thin Paul.

It's not very often I get to say that right? That's right. I saw you of course at an Emagine theater. But more recently, we met at the Detroit economic club, young leaders conference at the Motor City casino. And I had never met you before. And we had, we had a conversation after I closed the keynote. And obviously, there was a connection there with authentic leadership and my leadership message. But what struck me more than anything, was the warmth that you feel when somebody meets you for the first time. It's not, hey, I'm meeting a CEO of a major corporation. And you know, you're you're too good for anybody to talk to, you're very, you're very warm, you're very inviting. You make people feel safe around you, we had a lovely conversation. And we didn't really we didn't really know each other that well, and and I thought, wow, this is a leader with Gravitas. This is an authentic leader. And so that's why you're on the show.

I'm glad you felt that way. And, you know, there's an old saying about, you won't remember what somebody told you or how they said it, but you'll remember how you feel. And so I'm delighted to think that you felt that way about our genes meeting at that event.

Yes. And now I get to ask you the question, because I want to know, Paul Glantz, what is your story? Let's go right back to the beginning.

04:21

You know, I am the luckiest guy on Earth. I was born to loving parents. And so I would tell you that all the success in my life is born out of the fact that, you know, my folks love me, and I was their only child. And they told me I could be anything I wanted to be. And you know, when you're told that frequently enough, you begin to believe it. And so it became I would say a self fulfilling prophecy. though neither my folks finished college. My dad went to trade school. My mom worked as a lab technician before most moms worked. I never knew that I had a choice but to go to college, and so when little Polly grew up and it was time to go off to college, There wasn't a trust fund set aside for him because he didn't come exactly from a moneyed family. But I was very fortunate that I had not been a model citizen in my high school years. But I maintain good grades. And so I earned a scholarship to Wayne State University, where I studied accounting and business and thought I got a pretty good education there because I was fortunate enough to pass the CPA exam, but the first dry, so off to the races, you would think right? Well, not quite. So you see, I didn't quite have a mentor back then. And little did I know, but that I had colored outside the lines when it came to trying to enter the public accounting profession. In fact, at the time, there were eight international accounting firms, plus plant Moran, and what's now u, h, y and several other local firms. And I was turned down by eight out of eight, plus all the local firms. And I'd like to believe I can sometimes learn from my mistakes. And so I went back, start working my master's degree in taxation, and that allowed me to recruit on campus. And lo and behold, Mr. Glantz was now coloring within the lines if he was welcomed into the public accounting profession. But you know, that one year, sort of sabbatical when I couldn't find a job and public accounting turned out to be a real blessing because I worked as a credit analyst at Comerica Bank. And I tell people that I learned how to read financial statements before I can put them together. In here, that's really important. If you think back on my career, particularly as not runner. I've had to write business plans, I have to do cash flow projections, I have to understand the inner workings of balance sheets and income statements. And all that stuff really was learned in my first year in banking. But interestingly enough, I was so fortunate, and I think, you know, we don't know, luck of birth or, or how we're going to, you know, fare in life. But that broad base of experience that I garnered both working in banking and public accounting, I think has really served me extremely well in my career. And so that continued on, I ended up learning about the insurance industry, I went to work for Pulte home Corporation after my stint in poly accounting. And they made me a corporate Risk Manager, something I knew nothing about. But they said, Well, we can take a CPA and teach them that kind of stuff. And so I learned about insurance there and had a really lovely career for 27 years with a company in Troy, Michigan called Proctor financial Incorporated. And I started out as a CFO and I spent my last 10 years as president, that organization. And during that time period, of course, my little entrepreneurial tabi grew up and at the time, I'd said Well, look, I've got a vocation, and an avocation. And the movie theaters were really my avocation. But unlike most folks who have hobbies, say they play golf or something, I guess mine were a little different. Maybe I'm boring, because I'm an accountant. But a lot of fun growing that little entrepreneurial business over the years, and lo and behold, it is now my vocation.

Yes, yes, it definitely is. So tell us a little bit about Emagine I know that you're in four states now. Is that right?

08:18

Yes, we have our home base here in Michigan. We have a theater in Wisconsin, one in Illinois, one in Illinois, although we hopefully have another one coming in Illinois very soon. And just recently, we open to an Indiana. In addition, we have a licensee that operates under the brand. Emagine in Minnesota. So counting my licensee, I guess run five states. So

let's get right to it. Then Paul , you have all these movie theaters, and then the pandemic hits. I mean, what, what, what do you do? One of the reasons that I very much wanted to talk to you for season three for the podcast is to probe into the authentic leadership trait of resilience. I cannot think of another business that was hit harder than you were hit during the pandemic. Could you tell us a little bit about the thought process and your leadership during that time?

Well, I think like my leadership, most of the time I muddled through most of it, to be candid with you. I had misjudged the duration of the pandemic on several occasions. But I am, by nature, an optimist, and I felt this too shall pass. And in fact, during the time period, that we were shut down. I don't think I've ever worked as hard as I've worked during that, you know, that duration. It was because we had a competitor up in Grand Rapids that had declared bankruptcy in February of 2020. And we were intent on trying to acquire that organization. Now it turned out that we were fortunate that we did not acquire substantially all that organization's assets because the carry would have been challenging because needless to say, our industry didn't quite come back as rapidly as I thought it would. But we ended up acquiring four locations that were formerly leased by that company, and the leases were rejected in the bankruptcy. And those four venues to which an Indiana one in Saginaw, Michigan one of Batavia, Illinois, those four collectively represented roughly 25% of the defunct organizations, prior revenues. Now, that's not a 30. So the top four that we had the good fortune of acquiring, represented roughly 25% of the organization's total revenue. So I think we got the pick of the litter, so to speak. But, you know, at the same time, I'm aspiring to grow. And I'm thinking that this is the time just like Warren Buffett would tell you that be greedy, when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy. And I'm thinking, well, the time to buy is, when everybody's back on their heels, right? Well, my bankers thought I was out of my mind. And they're not entirely this guy in that respect. It did seem out of sorts. But you know, I'm all in. I'm all in. And I felt like if this world's going to come back, if we're going to have a return to normalcy, then folks still want to eat out, they still want to, you know, leave their homes to be entertained. And we will be there to offer them a terrific out of home experience. And so maybe it's misguided bravado. But I'm of the opinion that, that folks still aspire to enjoy an auto home experience. And that's our job. And we will continue to do it. And hopefully, we'll do it in a manner where folks find a compelling value in in coming to our venues. So it was a schizophrenic time, we were juggling, on the one hand trying to grow, on the other hand, trying to keep the lights on, pay our property taxes, while we had zero revenue, cover some debt service, make lease payments. And we were very fortunate, we went into it with a good balance sheet, a lot of cash. And we also are blessed to have some terrific bankers who provided us with financing, that really got us through to the first quarter of this year. But at the end of the first quarter, I was faced with a, perhaps the most difficult thing I've ever had to do in my entrepreneurial career, which is to go back to my investors for a capital call. I was very proud of the fact that since 1996, I'd had the privilege of shepherding other folks investments, without ever calling upon them and saying, I've got a problem. And now it's your problem. I always prided myself on avoiding that. But we reached a point where we needed some additional cash infusion. Of course, I put in, but didn't have enough to cover the full exposure that we needed, compared to times in the past when I could cover it. But I was so deeply gratified when my investors stepped up. Not only did they fund what was necessary to keep our banks happy, but they also found it in their hearts to fund the additional growth opportunity that we didn't have identified as well. So, you know, as much as this has been a challenging time, it's also been among the most gratifying things that could have ever happened in my business career.

Oh, you're one of the things that strikes me about you, Paul, is that you're never afraid or uncomfortable to admit mistakes. You just said you know, you misjudged it, you thought it was gonna last four to six weeks. And as I was doing my research, you know, that was published in Crains. You know, you're very comfortable with your leadership and saying, Hey, I thought it was going to be this, it's going to be something else. How, what advice would you give to leaders who are not as comfortable admitting their mistakes? Were you always that comfortable? Or was that a skill or something that you developed over time?

I have very little filter. I'm transparent. And maybe just maybe, because I didn't grow up with privilege. I always think that, you know, if I draw goes away, I won't commit suicide, I'll be perfectly fine. And, and so yeah, I don't bet 1000. I don't know anyone who really does. And so I'd like to think that's simply a demonstration of humanity to recognize that I don't have all the answers. My word there are libraries filled with knowledge that I don't possess. And, and I think that I think folks are, are inclined to want to rally around people who aren't, don't hold themselves above others. And I'm not I mean, the truth is this. If you go to one of our theaters and the floor is sticky, That's my problem. And the reason it's my problem is I didn't put the right people in place to do the job for you. But I'm ultimately responsible. You're not going to see me ascribe blame or or cast aspersions on my teammates? And and ultimately, I think that's the right answer. I think, you know, folks have to accept responsibility and I am ultimately responsible here. So hopefully when I acknowledged by shortcomings, my failings, it's simply an acknowledgment that we're all kind of that way. We're, we're all human. We're all mortals, we have our frailties.

Did you ever think that people might see that as a weakness? I know, there are a lot of leaders out there who are afraid to admit that they don't have all the answers, because they don't want to look weak in front of their people that you ever thought ever crossed your mind?

Not really, maybe I'm just fortunate, maybe I'm up to so maybe it never dawned on me. But, you know, early in my career, I did work with folks that I thought, you know, had leadership roles, but the demonstrated insecurities and I thought that, you know, their behaviors were were untoward, that was, it wasn't endearing in any way, shape, or form. And so perhaps, you know, we all are a product of our experience, our background. And so perhaps I learned that from seeing the other side of that coin.

Yeah, you know, it took me a long time to learn that, quite frankly, because I grew up in a leadership model, where I was told that you'd sit at the head of the table, you command the agenda, you command the room, you know, you guide the decisions. And it took me a long time to realize that that's not really the way to do it.

You know, here, this might have a role in my demeanor as well. I've always had a boss. And, and so because, you know, I had a lengthy career working for others. And because I have investors in the business, I've always felt that I'm accountable to others. And that I have to acknowledge when I'm, when I missed make a misstep or failed in some way. Because if it's just a fact that, you know, we were not going to bat 1000.

Yeah. Tell me about your thoughts around servant leadership. I know that you presented on that at Troy chamber event. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on servant leadership?

Well, I'm a big believer that our teammates must be treated with kid gloves, they must we must tell them and truly mean that we care about them. Because ultimately, the most important thing to be a good contributing teammates and Emagine is to have empathy for our guests. It's so I can't be cruel to my teammates, and make their lives miserable, and expect them to smile and be gracious to our guests. And so I also say that we never know what's going on in somebody else's life. And, you know, when we went through this challenging time last year, I'm rather proud of some of the things that we did, because I think it was it was representative of our concern for our teammates. So for example, and again, I wouldn't call it philanthropy was enlightened self interest, we, we never allowed one of our general managers to miss a paycheck. Because ultimately, those folks have institutional knowledge, they know how to run these theaters. You know, you put me at a popcorn machine these days, I'll burn it, you know, so you don't want that. And, and so we couldn't afford to lose our senior leaders because they know how to run theaters, and they do a good, great job doing it. Then with those folks that we ultimately had to furlough. We made the decision to continue to pay 100% of their health insurance, both for they and their family members, without any contribution during the period of time they were laid off, because I just felt like I didn't want any of them to have to make a decision. Do I buy groceries? Or do I pay for my health insurance? Certainly, during a pandemic, we need health insurance. And so I'm, I'm really proud of that, I think it was the right thing to do. And, you know, perhaps it's paying dividends. Now, we haven't lost a single one of our general managers, we, we've largely retained all of our workforce. And we unlike many employers, we're not struggling with you know, acquiring talent, like others. And so hopefully it was a demonstration but but a meaningful one that we genuinely care about the folks who work for us and and I do because again, if I have to care about them in order for them to care about you as my guest Yeah,

I agree with you and it's very much the Simon Sinek philosophy too. I'm sure you're familiar with Simon Sinek Yes. And he believes that if you take care of your people, then they will take care of your clients and your customers.

That's, I think it's irrefutable. And again, I, you know, I can't ask my teammates, you know, to smile and be gracious to our guests, which is their job, that's the most important thing they can do be empathetic and kind to our guests can ask them to do that if I'm in the backroom, you know, using a whip on them? Yeah,

yeah, that's right. Paul, let's talk about giving back to the community, your business is heavily involved in the community and gives back to many different organizations, and also you personally. So tell us a little bit about that. And what drives you what motivates you to give so much?

You know, at one point, I told my friend, Marina Horton, that it was responsibility for those of us who have done well to give back and Marina corrected me, and I've adopted her approach. And her approach is no, Paul, it's a privilege to get back in it truly is, I think it's enlightened self-interest. In this regard, I think when your guests know, your customers know that you don't just take from society, but you give back as well. They feel better about doing business with you. And so I recognize that, you know, the needs in our society are infinite, the resources are, are limited. But if we can just help one person, then we're doing well. And I've taken such great pleasure in seeing, for example, our, our scholarship recipients at Wayne State University, helping them graduate with less debt or no debt. Seeing two of our scholarship recipients go on to become very high flying partners at McKinsey and Company, you know, you want to talk about something you're thinking, boy, I help this guy, look at where he is, he's head and shoulders above me. And so we've got two of our recipients there. And so yes, Wayne State holds a soft spot in our heart for for us, my wife, Mary and me, because we were beneficiaries of a scholarship that when both of us, and so I say that we're on the deferred tuition plan at Wayne, we're simply paying that tuition now with interest, and hopefully helping, those are coming up behind us. And again, I really do think it's a it's a privilege, it's not a responsibility, it's a privilege to help those who are less fortunate. We, again, when you've had as many blessings as we've enjoyed in our lives, it's, it's I think it's the least you can do, I don't know, any other way, honestly,

I see. We, you know, we talk about Gen Z coming into the workforce. And I see that one of the things that's really important to them is the mission of the company. But I think they're also asking these kinds of questions. You know, what are you doing? What are you doing for the environment? What are you doing for the community, it's not just about the business itself, it is about something that's much broader than that.

We added up between my personal philanthropy, my family's personal finance, philanthropy, and the companies last year during the pandemic, and we had helped over one out 1000 organizations. And I'm not to be lauded for that, it's just simply that we have trouble saying no. But, but again, you know, there, there are so many worthwhile causes, there's so many important missions. And, and so we'd like to be able to help those who need a little hand up, you know, and those who, you know, can benefit from a little bit of economic help, and so forth. It's, it's really, it's, I just think it's the right thing to do.

Authentic Leadership is about living life, and leading in accordance with your values. And it seems to me that this is an example of how this is manifesting itself out in the world for you. This is who you are.

I'm not gonna take it with me, am I? No, I don't think so. No, and so if you acknowledge that, and, you know, again, I'm very fortunate, I'm at a point in my life where there wouldn't be another material possession that would bring me happiness, I have a car, I have a home, I have a boat, I have clothes. And but most importantly, I have a loving family. And so those are the things that are in a loving family is far more important than the other parts of life. And, and so if I can share some of the good fortune that we've had with those who are less fortunate than I just think that that's a value system that we should all embrace.

Yeah. Again, it's clearly an example of authentic leadership when you live your life, and you lead in accordance with your values. And it feels it feels good.

feels great. Yeah, I'm a happy guy, glad you know, more I give the happier I am.

And that's what leadership is it is about how you lead others, but it's how you lead your life and it should feel good, it should feel great. When we were in the casino, I had everybody with their arms up in the air, talking about how great leadership feels like. And I do that because it's fun, and it gets people moving. But it really leadership should really feel that great, you should feel it right down to the core of your being.

What can you think of any other privilege, any greater privilege, I mean, it truly is a privilege to be able to lead an organization like this and have so many wonderful people associated with it, all of whom are dedicated to serving our guests. You know, again, I talked about this on multiple occasions how lucky I am, I am, I'm just incredibly fortunate to have this wonderful team, they have enjoyed some economic success that we can share with those who are less fortunate. And to, you know, again, you have the most important thing, which is a loving, healthy family.

You know, leadership touches, you touch people's lives. And I think a lot of leaders today, sometimes they underestimate the power that they have. Because you can you can make somebody feel good in the workplace, which translates directly into their home life. And now of course, we know the lines are blurred even more. It's an awesome responsibility. And I think when people realize that they are there to serve others, and that they can have such a dramatic impact on somebody else's life. It switches the perspective on leadership.

Without question, our most recent policy trailer focuses on our teammates, and what Emagine meets them focuses on some media personalities and what Emagine represents to them. And it's very touching to me to think that this organization is had a meaningful impact on their lives.

Let's talk about technology and innovation. Lots of business leaders out there today struggling with this idea of embracing technology and innovation. I see many business leaders say, oh, we're an innovative company, but yet they're referring to maybe a product and they assign that to an individual or a group, they don't truly embrace innovation in every facet of the business. You are known and you have a reputation of being at the forefront of technology and innovation in the business that you're in. How did you do that? One? What advice would you give to other leaders out there who are trying to get their arms around New technology? I mean, it's a leap, right? You have to take a leap and you don't have all the answers. So tell us what does that feel like?

Well, you've heard the adage that Necessity is the mother of all invention. To be a little anecdote, when we opened our first new-build theater, it was in 1997. And it was on a Saturday night, just after we opened that the Detroit Red rings won their first Stanley Cup in 42 years. There was not a soul in that theater. And you want to talk about a guy who was for Lorne I've literally cried driving home that night, and dropped while driving home that night I concluded that if folks wanted to see hockey, then by golly, we'll show them hockey, we won't show them movies. And so my evolution into technology like digital presentation, for example, grew out of my shortcoming by not recognizing that what we should be is a full entertainment venue that we should offer folks on the screen what they want to see not what I want to show them. So we rented a digital projector the following year for the Stanley Cup playoffs, of course, the redwings again won the Stanley Cup. And that put us in a position where we were very much leaders in digital technology at one time we had prototype 1.2k Digital projectors This is before the industry had developed all of its standards and so forth. And so I literally sort of evolved into it. And then we were well-positioned then to become the first in the world to adopt all digital projected projection technology. And I wouldn't tell you that I think our guests really care if it's digital or analog. They want a you know, sharp clear picture they want great sound. And we've done that with you know with laser projection with Dolby Atmos sound with 4k projection and so forth. But I would say that again, it's really just driven by an intense desire to try to serve our customers needs and expectations. Because I don't think there's really a lot of room for mediocrity in the world of commerce these days, you're either going to be good at what you do. Or you're going to be left by the side of the road under our economic system. So I didn't have a vision. You can't look at me and say, well, Paul, you are first in the world do all digital technology or genius. No, you know, was driven by it was driven by the fact that the studios were subsidizing the transition to digital cinema. And I felt like the deals weren't gonna get any better. So I better get in early. I got in early, I was the first.

That was not the answer I was expecting to hear. Well, there it is.

That's it. I'm, you know, finance guy counting. The deals aren't getting any better. Let's get in while we can.

Yeah, yeah. But still, it was a commitment was huge commitment to make

it was and you know why? Because we were really on the bleeding edge. At the time, there weren't enough digital prints. So we had both dual projection systems. And every one of our 46 auditoriums, we had a mechanical projector, and we had a digital projector, because you didn't know if a particular film was available in digital or not. And so we probably incurred more costs than later adopters did. But there was a time in this society of kind of fascination that we had more digital projectors per capita in the state of Michigan than any other state in the Union, let alone that world. Because my, my Michigan-based competitors all decided they wanted to keep up with me. And that was fun. So Michigan really led the way with digital projection.

Interesting. And then, of course, you ended up in the Wayne State Innovation Hall of Fame, was that part of that?

As I understand, they're going to be honoring me on the 15th of October, as an entrepreneur for lifetime achievement. So I'm deeply honored by that, you know, it's my alma mater. And I'm in some really good company. I mean, I'm not sure I really belong in that class. But it's, it's very gracious them to think about me that way.

Well, and that's, I think that's part of your leadership style. You are quite humble, you know, you certainly don't come across as this big ego CEO. And I think that's part of your charm. If I may say so.

Well, thank you. I like the idea of being charming, as opposed to being a big ego guy. Yeah, right, right. I'm not sure what a big ego does for you. He doesn't do a lot does it? I think it does nothing for you, if it deters people from sharing their thoughts with you, and being transparent with you. And I think it really works to your detriment, it repels

people. And when I talk about Gravitas, as being the hallmark of authentic leadership, authentic leadership is all about bringing people in to you. And that's all about warmth, and making people feel safe. So they can make decisions, so that they can feel good about what they're doing. They can feel good about your leadership, your company, and yes, your customer, you know, and

I recognize that not everyone, as I said, How many times but they're not going to bet 1000 either, we're all going to make mistakes, and then abuse becomes a question of what do you do thereafter. And I find that oftentimes when you stumble in some way, but if you acknowledge it and make it right, that your customers are, you know, more than happy to forgive you. And so I, I'd like to, you know, continue the theme of, if we, if we can't serve you, well, then what can we do to make it right? If we, and if we can't make it right, we're not going to take your money or give you your money back whatever we can possibly do. I think it's our responsibility to serve our guests effectively serve them well, because I believe that all success in business is born out of serving one's customer. You know, the financial results come naturally. I think if you have raving guests, if you've got guests who just love your product, they tell their friends, and so the most important thing is that we embrace our guests, we give them an exemplary experience. And treat them like the princes, the kings, the princesses, they are because without them we have nothing. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. You know, I have the same situation with my investors. You know, as a guy who didn't come from a money background, without the capital that our investors have so graciously bestowed upon us, we'd have nothing and so I am I'm truly a grateful guy. I think I've been very very fortunate my life and, and think that most all my success is really the result of others contributions.

Yes. Well, let's talk a little bit about the future. You know, the pandemic was hard and yes, you showed Tremendous resilience, and you're coming through it. But it also opened up this whole new realm of the virtual world that many businesses didn't really embrace, because they didn't want to, you know, it was sort of part of the routine and the mold that you would get on a plane and go visit somebody and go visit a plant or visit in an office that was out of state or out of the country. And now we've all had to embrace this virtual technology. So we're a lot more comfortable with that now than we ever were before. So I have to believe that that starts to open up some opportunity for you in the business world.

You know, I think so. And we touched on it. When I say at the Detroit economic club, young leaders event that perhaps there's an opportunity to do smaller congregate events, where there could be a speaker where there could be some type of event going on in a particular locale. But it's broadcast to smaller venues or venues all over the country, all over the world, where folks would come together in smaller groups, not required the travel and so forth. And so we're very fortunate we are doing business with two terrific companies that are involved in distributing content to theaters around the country and around the world. And that's part of their vision, they believe that they can take live entertainment, and present it in environments like ours, where maybe there's even a two-way communication. So in technology, as you know, it has been a hallmark of our business. And we have embraced that we're, you know, we've got fiber optics leading into every one of our buildings. And so with fiber-optic lines, we can show live events with no pixelization can be live, it could be two-way communication. And so I think I think there, there are more opportunities available to folks like me that have venues than folks realize,

yeah, I love that idea. I see the global corporate meeting, VM presented and in one location, and then many, many other locations around the country, people actually go to that location. So they have the theater experience, they're not at home watching on zoom, you know, it's a much better immersive type of experience.

I absolutely agree with you. As much as we've all become accustomed to zoom, and you know, sitting in front of our computers at home, I think there's still value and congregate activities. And especially if folks are feeling comfortable with a smaller group as opposed to an enormous group, we'd like to be there to be able to avail that opportunity to them. Yeah, yeah,

I think that the future is tremendously exciting in the world of audio and visual. And part of my passion, as you will know, is podcasting. Because I believe that audio is a great way to get the message out to people not only externally, but internally to your own employees. And people want, they want people to speak in a human to human language. We don't we people don't like corporate speak, I know that we have a lot of people out there. And I hate to I don't mean to offend them. But there's a lot of people that spend their lives and their careers crafting the message, right? It's all about crafting the message. And I remember when I did my global meetings, it was all Oh, well, you know, it's got to go through communications, we got to make sure that the message is consistent. And then by the time you got to do the call, there was always a technical problem with the zoom link or something. And you had to do three calls, because there were three regions you're trying to cover globally. And it was just a was just so much pain and agony. And I think that, you know, number one, we've embraced this virtual world much more now after the pandemic, and the technology is there to do it. But people need to do it, my fear poll is that people are going to go back, that they're gonna want to go back to their comfort zone, and they want people back in the office, they want to be back in command and control, because that's maybe how they were successful in their role. And that gives them comfort and security. So for those people who want to go back to the way it was before the pandemic, and not really embrace the virtual world, and make it work with interactive experiences in making this working world really transform it. What would you say to those leaders that were reluctant to embrace this new world?

My junior high counselor said something to me that I still remember, change or be changed. And so those words resonate with me. And, you know, a company I recently worked for up until just three and a half years ago. One of their advantages was the only constant is change. And so if we don't embrace change if we don't recognize that there are perhaps better ways to do business, better ways to serve guests, serve customers. I think we're doomed to failure. And so I think we have to listen intently to what, what people are saying we, obviously, you know, everyone's going to have a slightly different opinion and so forth. But I think we have to be fearless when it comes to looking in the future, we have to determine, are we going to be a survivor or not, you know, a lot of the things that we've done in our theatres folks that, Oh, you've been such an innovator, you've done one, oh, this is great. candidly, I think everything we've done has been largely driven by the need to survive. Either we're going to do this and do it right. Or, again, I think our economic system will will deal with it. And you don't have to look far to see organizations in my industry that have failed, even failed before the pandemic. And maybe fear has been a great motivator, my business life, not that again, that I, you know, gonna lose some material possessions, you know, got all the material possessions I could ever want for at this point in my life. But, but I don't want to fail. I don't want to fail my teammates, I don't want to fail my investors, I don't want to fail our customers. And so I'm driven to serve them,

leaders out there who are doing everything they can to go back to the way it was before the pandemic, looking at your business in the way it was before the pandemic is the one business process or practice that you shed, that you are glad that it's gone away. And you don't want to go back to

we got rid of our bad smartphone app. You know, if you want to talk about something that was an embarrassment to me, you know how as apps, get ratings, you know, stars and so forth, I think we had a two out of five rating for our app, and that pained me greatly. And so I was delighted when we were able to bring forth our new app that allows you not just to book your film, your show time, but also to buy your food and beverage right on that same smartphone app. And then the goal is to bring you food and beverage right to your seat. So we've taken this a long way. I think, you know, if you go back to when I started the industry, that first of all, there was no computer to be found. But then even when there were computers, you stood in line at the box office, you stood in line to buy your food and beverage you then you queued up to race into the auditorium to get your favorite seat. Now, you don't have to hand that stuff, make a few taps on your smartphone, show up early or show up late. We're going to your seats going to be there. And that's really an enhancement to the quality experience. And so folks again, you've Paul, you've been wonderful now I haven't I did what was the expectation in the marketplace? Because everything has gotten easier through technology. Right? So I think we're really just doing what we need to do to continue to think about the best interests of our guests in our in our owners.

But there you are, again, see you you saying about your app, right? That pay it was awful, right, and you've had to improve it, I love the way that you just so openly, it just you will admit these, these problems, and put it out on the table. And I have to believe that the people that work for you find that very empowering because you're then giving them permission to do the same.

Of course, you know, and I am a big believer that when you put the interests of others ahead of your own, inevitably, both parties are very successful. And so yeah, I I tasked our CEO with developing a new smartphone app and he's shepherded it right through It's magnificent it. He was showing it to me today we've tested it out, it works, and it continues to improve. So I'd like to believe that there's room for continuous improvement in every industry, including ours.

Well, we've talked about authentic leadership, and you saw the keynote at the Motor City casino. Gravitas is the hallmark of authentic leadership. To me it is that ultimate quality that just draws people into you. What is Gravitas to you?

It's solemnity it's its competence. It's maybe leading with conviction, and but recognizing you don't have all the answers, and incorporating the views and the input of others to help you form a better organization.

Yes, well, you display almost all of the qualities of an authentic leader. There's no doubt about that, but their resilience that there's a few that stand out in my mind, resilience is one clearly given what you've been through. The second one is warmth and the ability to generate trust around an enemy that interacts with you. And your conviction like you say, you know this, this, you are bound and determined that you're going to do something, you don't have all the answers and you're open to admitting your mistakes, and you give people permission to do the same making a very safe environment.

That's just simply how I roll. I guess I wish I could say something more eloquent. But I think what you've just articulated is absolutely, how I'd like to be perceived. And I'd like our business to be perceived as one that is absolutely dedicated to, to serving it's serving its customers. I mean, I don't know what else to do. It's my job as a businessman, right? I know serve my customers, somebody else will.

You seem a little surprised that I'm asking you these questions, I can see the look on your face. Obviously, our audience can't see it, because this is a podcast. But I get the sense that you're thinking, you know, what, doesn't everybody lead this way? Or why isn't this intuitively obvious? Am I just putting words in your mouth? Or is it something?

No, you've read my body language Correct Okay, that's exactly right. I'm thinking I don't think I'm doing anything really. That's

why she asked me this. Isn't everybody do this? Yeah, that's

the way I'm thinking about it. Jan, I'm thinking this is this is. Is there any other way to do this? And do it effectively? I don't know that there is. I mean, and again, I surely don't have all the answers. And I've certainly paid by share mistakes. We've talked about those, we have plenty more we could cover today. But yeah, I'm comfortable in my own skin, particularly at this age and feel like, you know, you can't hurt my feelings. And, but, but again, if I just, I'm not thinking about myself and thinking about others, and then it's so much easier, I think, to move along in life. When you say, Well, why? Why are you getting up today, Paul? I'm getting up today because I'm not just serving popcorn and showing movies. I think, honestly, our business is slightly higher calling and that I think we're genuinely bringing an element of escapism, to people who have got busy lives, and who have smartphones ringing and dinging and to take someone and give them two or three hours of immersive pleasure away from the day to day thoughts of life. I think we're really helping humanity and enhancing the quality of life and the communities we serve. And that's, that's why I'd like to think about our business.

Yes, yeah. It's very much mission-driven. There's, there are no two ways about it. And going back to your, you're surprised at some of my questions, I believe that we've got to do more of this type of conversation where people can listen to extremely successful businessmen like yourself, and hear you talk about authentic leadership. This is how you practice leadership, this is what leadership is. And if we can start to change that mindset, then we can do use my favorite gym that I love to use, we can break the mold. And my concern, Paul, is that if we don't, then we are not going to be able to attract Gen Z, Millennials are in the workforce, for the most part, it's about Gen Z. I agree. And if the leadership model doesn't change from the leadership model of the past, into a more authentic leadership style, then there will be no business, the businesses will have a very limited life. Well, we see

that with, you know, the shortage in the workforce today, I mean, workforce, but participation is is really not strong. I'd like to see it much stronger. And if better leadership would attract more people to participate in the workforce, then that's a word they calling in and of itself.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm going to take a turn into the personal realm. And I love to ask my guests this question because I think it goes right to the heart of mindset and how you set up your day. So how do you start your day,

I am the least regimented guy in the world. And that's not typical, I think for a lot of leaders. So sometimes I roll out of bed early. Sometimes they roll out of bed late, and I hate routine. And so the more varied the more activities I can put in one day, the better. So, you know, I know people who are very disciplined and I admire them greatly like I have an investor who for many years was probably the single best salesperson offering copiers and fax machines in the United States. The most disciplined man I've ever seen up at 5 am planning is Calls making cold calls doing all these things. I'm the farthest thing from that. I'm just, you know, get out of bed take a look, what are we? What do we plan for today? What do we got to do? And so just, you know, roll with it. And I, I'm really comfortable with that I'm not a guy who likes routine. And so that's probably not the characteristic you were thinking about.

But that's just it, right? So in your mind, there is no mold that you're trying to fit in terms of what a CEO should be, like, our senior business leaders should be like, you know, this is not, there isn't a mold that you're trying to fit. You are who you are. And you're okay with that?

Yes, that's correct. I and sometimes I'm sleepyhead sleep in, if my schedule allows. But uh, but I'm also pretty industrious as you might expect, I mean, put in a lot of hours throughout my career and still happy to work hard. But regimentation, and fixed schedule is really the farthest thing from my life, because you're right, there isn't a mold around my life these days.

I'm really glad to hear you say that, because you're right, a lot of people say, you know, they get up at five, and they work out and they do yoga, and they do this, and they do that. And then they might do meditation, or all kinds of things before they start the day. And that's okay, and there's no right or wrong, there's no judgment here. They're just, you know, you're just the human, this is how you want to start your day. Some things work. For some people, they don't work for others. And I have to admit, I struggle with consistency. And routine. In some cases, I like a routine. But then I like to change it, which sounds a little weird, but I love to live, I live in the creative space, I love to create, and sometimes that energy can take me into a late night. And sometimes it will force me to get up early in the morning. And so if there's too much of routine a routine around me, I find that a bit restrictive. But if I don't have something that keeps me to somewhat of a routine, then I'm likely to slide off into some go down some rabbit hole and start focusing on something and it has no relevance to anything. So I think I'm a bit of a mix actually, of I like a routine that I also like to I am in that creative space. That's, that's who I am. I don't want to be constrained by all these routines.

I'm with you. And sometimes I can be working at midnight 1am. It just it really just depends on what's pressing what's required. And it was probably a bad habit I developed in school, but I like to do stuff. When there's a real deadline looming.

I do too. I do too. I work much better, right close to the edge of it. Yeah, that's that

happens to be my, my modus operandi when I can, when I know something's got to get done, you got to get it done. But by this, there's your deadline. Okay. Now I can perform. So I think I perform well under pressure. And, and fear is a great motivator. So those things, keep me for a while. And then when that's over, I can sleep.

Great. Good. Well, I have to tell you, it has been an absolute pleasure talking leadership with you today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, you're most welcome. It's been a pleasure being with you, Jan.

Thank you, Paul. Thank you.

We love feedback.

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Email Jan directly at jan@Gravitasdetroit.com. And tell us about your journey into authentic leadership. Let us know what you liked about this episode, and what you'd like to hear in future episodes. For more tools and resources to help you become a better more authentic leader with Gravitas. engage with us at GravitasDetroit.com