In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, we explore whether the popular “Let Them” mindset is always as healthy as it appears.I’m joined by Dr Rana Pishva, Clinical Psychologist, to unpack how ideas intended to support empowerment and boundary-setting can sometimes slip into emotional avoidance, disconnection, and relational rupture – particularly when applied rigidly or without reflection.Together, we discuss boundaries versus avoidance, curiosity versus control, and what happens when self-focused wellness messages are used to shut down difficult conversations rather than deepen understanding. We explore real clinical examples involving family relationships, holidays, romantic partners, and unmet emotional needs, alongside a thoughtful discussion about AI, validation, and why human connection still matters.This episode invites a more nuanced, compassionate approach to boundaries – one that balances self-respect with empathy, accountability, and relational repair.

Timestamps:

1. 00:00 – Why the “Let Them” movement feels empowering but may hide avoidance
2. 03:19 – When self-focused wellness becomes relational disconnection
3. 04:24 – A clinical example: family holidays, boundaries, and disappointment
4. 06:37 – Why boundaries aren’t about dropping emotional hand grenades
5. 08:32 – The importance of curiosity in relationships
6. 09:25 – AI, validation, and emotional outsourcing
7. 11:51 – Why human understanding matters more than generic reassurance
8. 15:12 – How “Let Them” can quietly erode emotional intimacy
9. 18:51 – Avoidance, anxiety, and the cost of protecting peace at all costs
10. 22:05 – Grief, unmet needs, and what we lose when we disengage
11. 28:13 – Using “Let Them” after reflection, not before
12. 31:12 – When “Let Them” does help – and why context matters

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The Let Them Movement is everywhere right now. And for a lot of people, it feels empowering. But in clinical work, we're starting to see something else happen. I've heard clients quote it in therapy and I've seen what happens when they start to use it as protection rather than reflection. So today I'm sitting down with a fellow psychologist, Dr. Rana, to ask the uncomfortable question has let them gone too far because what if this isn't empowerment? What if this is avoidance dressed up as confidence? Is let them actually helping people heal or is it helping them to disconnect from others faster? I'm Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist. I hope you'll find this content so helpful. And if you do, like and subscribe for more. Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. I am Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist. I'm joined here today by a Canadian clinical psychologist, Dr. Rana.

Hi, welcome along Rana.

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Absolutely. So we thought it'd be really interesting to have a chat about kind of inspired by a global phenomenon of a book called Let Them by Mel Robbins. And in a very small nutshell, an example of that would be if someone's really upset with me for something that they think I've done, maybe I can let them, but I can choose to go make a new friend or I can choose to talk to them about it, or I can choose to make sure that in future I don't let that happen in relationships. So it's putting the onus on me and just kind of saying, "People will be people and I'm maybe not the centre of their world." That's kind of what I took from it. But you kind of and I were discussing whether actually maybe let them has gone a little bit too far. And I would love your take on that runner.

Absolutely. I started noticing that the pendulum might've been swinging too far when I was seeing versions of either quotes from the book or bits of the interviews or even clients coming in telling me that they had read this book or other books like it where there is a very self-focused path to wellness. And I'll start off by saying that the message in Let Them or similar books are really come from a positive place. They're really clever repackaging of things that we have already known about. Things like personal responsibility, focusing on what you can control, accepting people for who they are instead of trying to change them over and over again. But what I was noticing was happening is that folks were over-correcting and in the way that they were applying it because there was such a desire to change the way that they were relating to others.

And so they were putting into, in short, we're putting into place these strategies of, "Oh, let them, that's not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm not going to deal with that. " Yet people continued to feel lonely, frustrated, and resentful. And what I was realising is that we're putting these strategies in place before doing the work and then expecting other people to change. So I thought it was interesting to bring this to the surface and discuss it, not just in terms of this book, but also as a general trend of these self-focused wellness trends.

Absolutely. And so in case people aren't really getting what we mean or they're wondering if they're interpreting the book properly or in a less helpful way, without identifying any particular client, and maybe I can give you a moment to think, could you think of a case study where someone's maybe not quite getting it right in a way that's actually helping their relationships to be functional?

Absolutely. So there are a lot of examples, but some of them actually tend to happen around different holidays. So whether it's Christmas that just passed or even summer holidays or whatnot, because these are the times where people's time, they need to often share their time, either with family or friends. There's lots of demands or pressure on their time. And so what I was noticing is folks wanting to, for instance, a client wanting to set boundaries around how they were going to spend a long weekend, and historically this was a weekend, I think it was Canada, I can't remember, where it was a family event, but this wasn't something that they wanted to do that year. They had a new partner and they wanted to spend that with them. And the way that it was brought in and the way that they talked to me about having set this boundary was, I texted my mom, I told her I'm not going to the cottage, that I wanted to see my boyfriend that weekend.

And they were so upset that their mother was expressing disappointment and kind of even trying to convince her otherwise. And her reaction was to sort of not respond to her mom for a week. And to me, knowing what I knew about this client, it felt like a really strong reaction where she was hoping for something from mom. Mom didn't give it to me. Oh, let them, I'm walking away from this. That's not working. Now, of course, there's a lot to unpack in this particular relationship, hence why she was in therapy, but these type of knee-jerk, strong reactions that we're calling boundaries were actually harmful because she was left still frustrated, still disappointed in mom, even though she was letting mom have her reaction. So that's one example that I can think of is very much shows up around time demands.

Yeah. And also, I guess that would be suggesting that you operate in a silo and we don't. So actually, if your relationship with your mom is still important, then I guess I'd be encouraging any client to say, "I'm really sorry. I know that often we do usually get together, but this time I'd like to do something a little bit different and I'm feeling really tired and I don't want to make the drive and I've got this new relationship and I would really like to just spend it with them." I know you might be disappointed about that and I'm a bit disappointed as well because I do enjoy that time together, but maybe we could find a different time to spend together or if this works out, I could bring them next time. It's not just saying, "I'm doing this. " It's almost like lobbing a hand grenade, isn't it?

"I'm doing this. I don't care what you say. "And I'm not going to respond to you. That's almost like, is it passive aggressive? Is that the right term?

I don't know if that's passive, but I like the hand grenade idea or this idea of walking away from a burning car. I was like, " It's not mine to deal with. Those are your feelings. You deal with them. "And what ascribing to these models rigidly does is that it really stifles our curiosity about other people and why would my mom be upset if I cancelled? Or another sort of pattern that's noticeable, even if I'm talking to folks in general is around cancelling last minute plans because we had made these plans for brunch, but I'm cancelling because I'm feeling really tired. And it's sort of like, " Well, you made a commitment to three other people who are waiting for you at the restaurant, but, oh, but I'm taking care of me. Let them be upset. "But it stifles our curiosity about how come this other person is upset?

How come this other person is acting the way that they are? And curiosity is, I think, the start of any change. And when we're not curious about why we're setting a boundary or we're not curious about why someone else is responding the way that they are, then we're disconnecting, right?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know, I think one of our strengths as psychologists is to be curious about others. It's definitely curious. Yeah. I'm relentlessly curious. I love knowing about people and about people's whys. And it's one of the things I found challenging in the pandemic because everyone was wearing masks and then you didn't get to speak to people, to strangers.

If I may, the additional layer that I'm seeing now, and again, this is in my office, but also in sort of broader communication or discussions around mental health is folks turning to AI therapy for support, whether it's therapy or just the regular chatbot that they happen to be using for emotional support, what did those bots do is that they reinforce, they're so agreeable that they reinforce your point of view. So if you say," Should I cancel these plans with my friends? "I'm feeling really tired. They'll say," Oh yes, you're taking care of yourself. You go ahead and do that. "And let them will tell you, " Yeah, let them be upset because you are taking control of what you can. The second half of the book, they'll let me. "It's like, " You're taking control where you can. "But that is very narrow minded and these chatbots will reinforce that and isolate us.

You've

Given me an idea then for when automation and AI gets it a little bit wrong. So I'm going to ask you to pay me a compliment. So if I'm feeling a little bit wobbly, maybe I'm not feeling great about myself, could you say something nice about me, please?

Absolutely. I was thinking actually that I really like your necklace. It's very colourful and we don't wear long necklaces anymore and I kind of miss that.

Okay, thank you. So I was watching a creator yesterday called Mama Still Got It, doing quite a raw reel about not feeling herself, feeling like maybe she wasn't feeling her most attractive that day, feeling like she wasn't being the best mother that she wanted to be. And her hair wasn't hairing and skin wasn't skinning, even the light in the room wasn't quite right. And as part of that, she'd said," Oh, Alexa, pay me a compliment. "And it was something along the lines of, in terms of awesomeness, your unicorn riding on a dragon. And I was just a bit like, " It's just too much. "That doesn't really do much for me. For me, it would be much better for them to say," Actually, you've got a really kind heart and you mean to do the right things and your listeners really love what you have to say and you're doing a good job.

None of us find this easy any of the time. "And that for me has got more usefulness and more believability, more utility. What do you think?

Absolutely. It's something that is, well, individual to you. It's based on who you are as opposed to this sort of mythical creature comparison. I don't know. I feel like my daughter might really like that as a compliment, but I'm not sure that it would work in an interpersonal relationship. And what I think is really interesting is that doing that, the automatic response of going to a machine for a compliment tells me two things. The first is, how come we're not turning to each other? What if I sent my sister a text and said," Feeling really crummy, send me something funny.

Why can't I do that to a real person and I feel that I have to go to a machine? "That's sort of one thing. And then the other part is the practise that it takes away. So if I'm feeling crummy, I'm not working through the different steps, drawing on myself to challenge that, knowing that, you know what, I felt like this before. Hey, I actually have a journal entry about a time where I know reading that makes me feel good, or I'm going to put on a song and dance. I'm going to draw on my own resources rather than again, going to a machine. And so while AI, it does give a lot, can give tools and information and life I said I didn't use it. It prevents us from learning the skills we would want to learn to be efficient and it disconnects us from people who could support us in a way who could foster these relationships, right?

Yeah. And so if I did go with that, I'm feeling really crummy example. And if I did say to my husband," I'm feeling really crammy, say something nice about me, or to one of my friends, and they came back with, you're a unicorn riding on a dragon, "in terms of the let them stuff, I personally would feel like, " You don't even get me, that's not authentic. You're my best friend or you're my husband, and this is the best you've got. "And go down the let them thing. What if we were using the let them inappropriately? We'd be saying," Well, I can let them think that that's going to scratch my itch and I can scratch my own itch and say something nice about myself. "And there's a whole thing about internal, external validation and all of that jazz, making ourselves feel good enough. But if we just left that with them, we would have a relationship which isn't meeting my needs because actually I want something that feels like they know me and they genuinely value me as a person.

So that would be an example of how we'd let them wrong.

Yeah, I think so because you would have this sense of like, well, first you'd have that disappointment and then you have this sense of like, oh, this person isn't going to get me. This person doesn't understand me, this person doesn't meet my needs. So I'm going to let them be how they are and the let me, I'm going to stop going to them to get my needs met and what that's just going to set us apart. Now that being said, it's possible that we're going to learn over time that this person just doesn't know how to get it. They give me a solution when what I want is a hug. And I've tried, I tried, I tried. Sure. Then the responsibility is on you to pivot and say, okay, this is not the type of support this person's going to be able to give me, but I can go to so- and-so.

I can foster other relationships or I can do this for myself. Or quite frankly, I start conversations with my husband sometime, I don't need a solution, just tell me I'm right. And then I go and I just sort of preface it. So just to make sure there's no, but that's something that you foster and let them doesn't offer

That. Yeah. And what I really like about some of my experiences of training was that you speak about the position you're taking at that moment. But if I know I'm asking my husband to step into an area that he doesn't have any experience or any care about, sometimes I will let him know. Sometimes I'll say, "I'm about to tell you something and I know you won't care, but I'd like you to respond to me as if you really do and as if you're so- and-so friend because they're not here." So I'll say, "So-and-so's having a baby." And then we'll go, "Oh, wow. Oh, that's amazing. Gosh, amazing. How far along is she?" But ordinarily he'd be like, "So?" But I'm obviously excited about that and want to share that with someone, but maybe I've been asked not to tell anyone, but telling my husband he's not telling anyone.

So yeah, I think we can give people the opportunity to not necessarily care about what we care about, but yeah, don't have to like everything we like.

That's right. But in that moment, your husband cares enough about you and your relationship to do that, to entertain that playfulness that we build because, well, you need that for that type of trust. And I'm realising, as you were saying that, that sounded a little bit like the prompts will give AI. I was like, "Act like a da da da da da da and do that. " Well, we can do that with each other and actually have that interpersonal inner subjectivity that I see you seeing me and being open to that and also being able to tolerate the discomfort when that person misses the mark because Alexa got away with that comment because she's a machine, our best friend, partner would not. So when someone we care about misses the mark because they will, being able to tolerate the discomfort and be curious saying, "Okay, they didn't mean it that way.

We can revisit this. It's not what I needed right now, but we do need to repair, for instance, or let me find another way to talk about this. " When we set boundaries in such a rigid way and our expectations of people are somewhat unforgiving, we don't give that space and we avoid that discomfort. We stop engaging in things that make us uncomfortable because why would I? I'm going to protect my peace. And again, that perpetuates anxiety. We know that avoidance is the fuel to anxiety and disconnects us even more from each other.

Yeah, absolutely. And has our global mental health ever been this poor in a time when we're less connected from people and more plugged into devices and technology and that parasocial relationship where actually we feel like our phone is the one that knows us best and we're sharing all of our thoughts and feelings with them, but actually it's a device that can't actually think without us and doesn't really know who we are. And I don't know, that's not a good position to be in, is it?

No, it knows us best because it is the best at predicting. It's a prediction machine, which those LLMs are, and it is the device that we share the most information with. So of course it's going to know you best, right? But how does it know you? Is it moved by you? Is it wanting the best for you? I think the answer is still no.

Yeah. I don't think it is moved by me at all now you say it, but it might make me feel like it is.

Yeah.

It's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it?

A little bit. And at the same time, people turn to it because they need it. So I've got compassion for that. But when it shows up in the therapy space, whether it's this rigid application of an individualistic trend or overuse of AI, sort of naming it and recognising that it's meeting a need for you with strategies like Let Them, it's so empowering to say no. It feels empowering to set those boundaries. And that's a feeling that folks look for in relationships where otherwise they felt unheard, unseen and providing sort of this non-judgmental space for them to validate that and then going a little bit deeper around, okay, you're feeling this empowerment. How are your relationships actually doing? Who's going to show up for you? Who are you going to show up for? Who's around you applauding, supporting you when you've shut all of these doors?

You sort of actually get to that need. And eventually, so many of these conversations turn into a conversation about grief because they've had to shut some relationships out or significantly limit them because it's not the relationship they wished for and there's such grief there and we're avoiding it, I think sometimes.

Yeah. And I think if I'm thinking back to the example I gave about the woman that's met her boyfriend and really maybe does want to spend the time with her boyfriend, but actually is also feeling a bit sad about not spending it with her family. If we were looking at this through a complex trauma lens where actually the relationship with her family is not meeting her needs and where actually isn't an attuned relationship where maybe she does really want to do that, but she feels like she should be doing that. How could we have a let them style interaction with that, which serves the lady herself, but maybe it deals with this rather than just leaving it or being really abrupt with it.

I love that you asked that question because it is actually about having a strategy that isn't necessarily repeating what you've done in the past. And I think that it starts with making an intentional choice whether you decide to go to the family weekend or not, as long as it is intentional, you're not doing it out of guilt or out of a fawning response, which is the new sort of kind of word being overused, but you're doing it because it's a value-driven choice and you tolerate the discomfort to be curious about mom's experience. So mom has always been someone who has had difficulty when someone stands up to her. She has a hard time with the fact that I'm dating already. All of these things, mom's feeling sad about this and the way that mom shows her sadness is with these critical comments. Doesn't mean they're okay, doesn't mean it's my job to fix it.

That's actually a let them thing, not mine to fix. That's what's happening. I'm going to let her with that and I'm going to make a decision that is right for me this time. So really describing what it's like for the other person without owning it and then deciding, what am I going to do? Actually, you know what? I can see my boyfriend the week after. This is really important for my mom because she's, I don't know, getting surgery in the fall. She might not be able to do this next year. Who knows? I'm going to do it. I'm doing it by my choice. I'm not fawning, I'm not, all that. So that's how I would approach it. What do you think this is like for the other person? And that's a tough question.

So yeah, I guess that would suggest that the relationship was still important to you enough that you wanted to make sure that she had those experiences and that you had those together. And if actually that wasn't the thing, and if actually spending time with your boyfriend has made you realise, actually, I think this is what an attuned relationship feels like where I'm allowed to say no, where I'm allowed to say later, when we're allowed to say, "Yes, let's do more of that. " And it's kind of listened to, then maybe the mother's using this surgery as a guilt trip. And maybe actually I can think, "I do hope that your surgery goes well, but I also really don't want to come this weekend. I really do just want to be here, enjoy my home, not travel and spend time with my partner. And I would love to come and see you just before your surgery."

So it's like that foreign response is whether it's kind of just people pleasing to the max. And I think we are supposed to be the main player in our own life. I think we're not an extra. I firmly believe that if we're keeping ourselves front and centre, that everybody else around us will have their needs served well as well, not to like the complete nth degree of thinking we are the best at everything in the world and we should always have our own needs met first. But generally speaking, if people are wives or mothers or husbands, if we try and make sure we've got stuff in our life that we are enjoying, everyone else will benefit from that is kind of what I'm saying. But yeah, I think sometimes people I'm working with will suddenly have an example of that functional relationship and it puts all of the others into perspective, which then makes them realise how they've been keeping people sweet and maybe they don't want to do that anymore.

Absolutely. And they don't want to do that anymore. And hopefully that functional, that healthy relationship is giving them perspective. And the way I would approach it, I think clinically would still have that point of curiosity of this is what it is like for mom or this is what it is like for the other person to the best of my ability of guessing, this is why they're acting that way. Again, I don't have to fix it. I don't have to hold it. I don't have to do anything about that, but their reaction is actually not about me and I'm going to make the choices that are based on my values. So even when you decide to shift your behaviours, even when you decide to change the relationships and make different decisions, when those decisions are made based on not labelling the other person, shutting the other person out, but rather just taking a moment to reflect on their internal world, that reflective functioning skill of what is it like for them, why does it matter?

Now that's really uncomfortable to do, but if you're capable of doing that for a little bit and seeing like, "Okay, that's what's going on. There's some softness that happens." And then you can say, "All right, well, not my job to deal with that. I'm still going to make the choice." The feeling moving forward in that is really different. I hope I'm expressing myself clearly on this idea that regardless, you can still be curious even if that relationship has been really tumultuous.

Yeah. And I think maybe where the let them does come in is actually if there's been a relationship rupture for some reason and you're trying to be curious, you're trying to make space to find out what's going on, but the other person is stonewalling you, then maybe this is an example of when you can do let them. I can't keep having this raw wound trying to solve this. If you're choosing to not interact with me, not let me know, not try and fix this, then I can let you not be distressed by the rupture in our friendship. And I can still be sad about that, but I can choose to put down my tools and say, "I can't do anything right now, and that has to be okay." Is that a better example of let them?

Yeah, I think that's an example of let them where the person has done the work, where the person has reflected on the reasons why, the values why they're going to choose to approach a relationship one way or another. And it's because they've sought to understand that the other person has a limited capacity to engage with them in the way That they're willing to grieve the relationship they're not going to have. And so then it's also more sustainable because every time that sting happens again, because oh, now it's Labour Day and now there's another weekend coming up, they can say, okay, here comes mom's guilt trip. I know it's because she doesn't know how to express herself. She really wants us to be together and this is not mine to hold. Sort of this almost little script that becomes repetitive.

Yeah. And sometimes it will never be enough. So even if you saw your mom every weekend, if you still chose to not see her for a special holiday or special important significance, you wouldn't necessarily have earned those tokens in the bank. Whereas-

There isn't one. Yeah, you're right. It's like this bottomless pit, but that's part of your understanding of that person

Where you

Could say, "You know what? I could be there all week and she still wouldn't be happy." I have enough evidence to say that. Again, not mine to hold, not mine to fix. Having compassion even must be really hard for her. Not mine to hold, not mine to fix. These are the choices I'm going to make.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Thank you so much, Rana. Could you tell us a little bit about where people can learn more about you and your work?

Absolutely. So most of the information about the workshops that I hold for mental health professionals about the professional consultation groups can be found on my website, sorted-mind.com. LinkedIn is where I do a lot of my professional connections as well, where I hold a lot of my workshops. And I tend to have a little bit more fun on Instagram in terms of posting what I find are little tools to help people sort out the messy parts in their life. So that's @drana.sortedmind. So lots of different places where they can find the work that I do. And then my long articles are all on Substack.

Great. I will link all of those details in the show notes and on YouTube if people are watching us on YouTube. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a fascinating look into why we might be getting let them slightly wrong and certainly why some of our clients might be getting that wrong. Thank you so much for your time, Rana.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you. What an interesting discussion with Dr. Rana. Has this helped you to think differently about yourself or the way that you've interpreted the book? Has it helped you think about how you might've seen this play out in your own family, in your own workplace? I would love to know. Do let me know in the comments. Have you read the book? Let me know what you think to that. If you haven't, but you would like to, please do check out the link in the description or the show notes so that you can grab your copy. There is a members only companion episode to this. And if you'd like to be part of that, you can get a free trial on Apple Podcasts and you could subscribe via Captivate and/or you can subscribe to my members only content via YouTube. The podcast will always be free, but these paid options help me to bring this content to you, which does take quite a few days of my time each week.

And it's your way of saying, "I really rate and support what you do. " So thank you so much if that's something that you are planning to do or maybe you are already doing.

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