Dawn Damon: My guest today is an author, a speaker, a certified Christian DiSC facilitator, co-host of Salted on Abundant Television, and podcast host of Juggling Life: Finding Balance. She's also a retired career professional with over 26 years of service in the United States Air Force and the Forest Service. A proud Oklahoma native and author of Breakdown Better: 52 Restoring Devotionals for Burned-Out Women, please welcome to the program today, Vivian G.Cummins.

Hello, Vivian!

Vivian Cumins: Hey, Dawn. How are you today?

Dawn Damon: I'm good. It's good to have you back. You're a bravehearted woman. You've been here before.

Vivian Cumins: I have been here. It's been about a year or so. I just listened to our previous episode this morning as I was working out, and I was like, Wow, there have been a lot of things that have changed since that time.

Dawn Damon: A whole lot of life went on. That's right. And if we only knew what kind of bravehearted woman you were gonna be when we were doing that recording, right?

Vivian Cumins: Yeah. God has, you know, at that time, really walked me through a season, but we continued to walk through that season. It's a lot of lessons learned.

Dawn Damon: Yes. And now you have a new book out called Breakdown Better, as I mentioned at the top, 52 devotionals. But in the opening of your book, you share about a time when you were so burned out, you felt so overwhelmed, and you were struggling with depression. You actually pleaded, "God, would you please let my heart stop beating so I can just go home?"

Vivian Cumins: Yes. That's a desperate place. You know, I had, you know, we talked in the previous episode about my struggling with perfectionism and control and striving and all of that. And that really came to a head, and I realized that I didn't know how to stop all of that. And I knew that I couldn't stop. I knew that in order for me to get over all of that, God would have to intervene. And so I kinda gave Him an ultimatum. I was like, "Either you take me home, because I don't wanna be here anymore, I can't live like this anymore, or you fix me. Do whatever you need to do with me to heal me from all of this striving and burnout and depression and overwhelm and anxiety." He chose the latter.

Dawn Damon: That's so awesome.

Vivian Cumins: Because you had said in one of your previous interviews, or I read it, that when you cried that out, God said, "Nope, hold on a minute. I'm gonna restore you."

Dawn Damon: Yes. I imagine, knowing God, it's like, "I'm not even gonna make you know, make you what you were. I'm gonna bring you to a whole new place." Tell us what happened. Yeah. How did you find yourself overcoming?

Vivian Cumins: Yeah. So it was so bizarre to me, because that was the word restore that God put on my heart. It was kind of like a physical whisper, if I can. It was just such an internal thing that when I'm lying on the floor, I'm pleading God to take me home, and He whispers, "Hold on, I'll restore you."

And I've used the word restore so many times. We all know what that means. But it meant something so deep to me that day, because to restore something means to bring it back to its original intent. God is our creator, who created us with purpose and intention. And I had floated so far away from His original design for my life. And so with the striving, and the working so hard, and the trying so hard, and having to have everything perfect. He never asked any of that of me. He only asked me to be who He created me to be. And so when He said, "Hold on," what He was basically saying to me is, "I've got you. Here's my right hand. Grab a hold of it. Let me pick you up off of this floor, and I will bring you back to my original intent of how I created you to be." You know, the book is about restoring devotionals, and it's because God wants to bring us back to our original intent.

Dawn Damon: Wow. That's really significant, and I hadn't understood that when I brought that up. But no wonder the Holy Spirit prompted me to mention that, because there's so much truth and power in that that many of us are not living according to our original design, are we? We've gotten away from it. Yeah. We've drifted. And now we're just settling, we're acquiescing. Instead of living in that full identity of who God created us to be, or that talent, or that gifting, we're just kind of limping along in life. And that promise is for all of us, really, isn't it? God wants to do that in our lives.

Vivian Cumins: Yes. And you know, the one thing that, as you were saying that, just kind of put on my heart was, you know, whoever told me that I wasn't enough? Yeah. Whoever told me I had to try so hard, you know? Right. Nobody did that. Well, maybe society, you know, or social media or whatever, inadvertently. But yeah, we are perfect the way God made us, and how He made us with our personalities

Dawn Damon: and stuff. Mm-hmm. You've talked about the perfectionism and the striving and all of that. It was just kind of a slow burn, or was there a cataclysmic moment where you were just like, "Okay, I can't do any more." What event led up to all of this?

Vivian Cumins: It's something that I think had been compounding for my entire life. But I was starting to have a lot of physical ailments that were starting to really just kind of build on one another. It started kind of with headaches, and then I was having a lot of stomach issues, so I was going to the doctor all the time for all these weird stomach things.

Then I started having heart palpitations, and then I fainted at home one day, just. Oh, wow ... you know, passed out one day. I ended up in an emergency room, thinking I had a heart attack. You know, so it was just one thing after another. My body was screaming and saying, "You've got to stop."

Yeah. And so that was kind of what was leading to it: my health. Also, I knew enough about myself to know that I was bringing this all onto myself, and that, again, is why I kinda was, you know, crying out to God to take me home or fix it because I didn't know how to stop. It was almost like an addiction.

Dawn Damon: Yeah. I'm identifying with some of that because while I'm not a perfectionist, I struggled with anxiety in my past, and I remember the first time that I experienced that, and mine was more surrounding post-traumatic stress from childhood abuse and things that were starting to make their way to the surface. But it started with, "I think I'm having a heart attack."And in the emergency room, "Oh, now I have a chicken bone stuck in my throat, and I can't swallow, and I've lost my voice." And I was a singer, so that was a very horrible thing. And then, yes, I had the headaches, and I had, you know, vertigo and everything.

And it was just all my body advocating for me. Yes. Sending signals and warning signs that were saying, "You can't keep all the balls underwater. You can't keep the past hidden when it wants to be known, so that you can let it purge through you and unload it instead of just kind of keeping it in the dark, 'cause it's there." So I remember those days, and it is. It's, it's your body saying, "Listen, you gotta change direction. Change your course. Do something, or we're breaking down here."

Vivian Cumins: Yes, and that's exactly what happened to me, and I think that's what happens to so many women out there as well.

Dawn Damon: To so many women. So you share openly in your book about your personal experience with this burnout, but I imagine you've learned so much from going through. It's not like, "I wanna go through it again, God." Don't hear that. But what shaped you? What did you learn? Your testimony: how did it deepen your faith?

Vivian Cumins: Yeah. So, a couple of things there. Yes, God didn't cure me, if you will, from my, you know, lifelong burnout process. It was a little bit at a time. And, you know, we talked about it in the earlier episode; you know, he revealed to me that spirit of perfectionism. He revealed certain strongholds that I've had in my life. We had to work through each one of those, you know? And God is such a loving God. He didn't just, like, dump all of this on me and tell me all these things that are wrong with me. Little by little, he would start to reveal some areas that I needed to work on.

Anger is the one that I'm currently working on, which is so crazy. I was like, "God, I don't have an anger problem." And, yeah, I do. I have an anger problem. And, as part of what you mentioned in the introduction, I became a certified Christian DiSC facilitator because the DiSC deals with our personality traits, and I became just infatuated with learning more about myself to understand why I am the way I am. Right. And that's kinda one of those things that showed me about how anger, you know, God gave us emotions, and it's not a sin to be angry. It's what we do with that anger that can get us into trouble. Yes. And so, it's just little things like that.

Once I find, like, "Okay, I think I'm, I'm good on this, God," and he's like, "Okay, let me show you another little thing that we need to work on." But I mean from glory to glory to glory to glory. Yes. You know, he's refining me, and I'm learning every single day, and it's, it's just kinda funny now. I can find myself, like the one thing that really will set me into a rage, Dawn, this is so crazy, is my printer. This printer and I go round and round. And so the last time it gave me so much trouble, I found myself starting to get really angry, and then I just stepped back, and I'm just like, "Not today, Satan," and just kinda giggled and took some deep breaths, walked away, came back, fixed it, and it worked fine. So yeah, I'm getting there.

Dawn Damon: That's so good. It's so good because every time you interrupt that pattern and choose a different pathway, we know the neuroscience now says, “Oh, okay.” We used to just automatically go here with this emotion. We all have a favorite home base emotion. But now your brain is going, "Er, wait a minute." And it al- allows it to, every time you interrupt that, to build a new neuropathway. And we do a lot of that work. We do brave thinking on The Bravehearted Woman, and talk about that because some of our emotions, yes, emotions come to us, but some are just our habits. Yes. Because we've been wired, or our brain has been wired and programmed to be that way, so it's, it's hard and holy, sacred work to redesign and become aware of that, tear down those thoughts and change direction.

I also, you know, was such an angry young woman when I was a young adult. For me, I didn't get angry. I had anger. Like, that was an emotion that protected me from feeling the other emotions. I didn't wanna feel sad or rejected or shamed or inadequate, so I just allowed myself to feel angry, 'cause that could be about you and you, and it could be about this dumb thing and that thing. It didn't have to be that I was flawed and broken. Yes. So that was a deep work that the Holy Spirit did in me when I finally felt safe enough to experience my real emotions.

I think perfectionism can sometimes have that same control, can sometimes have those same things, where if I do it perfectly, I don't have to be faced with the fact that maybe I'm not enough.

Vivian Cumins: Right.

Dawn Damon: Feeling insecure. Right. Yes. The pushing, striving because my acceptance, my identity, is wrapped in this thing that I'm doing. Yes. What did you learn about your identity in Christ during this time?

Yeah. Because, you know, I used to be Vivian with the title behind my name. I used to have, you know, a bunch of staff. Everybody used to come to me, and I used to be, you know, the go-to person. I had all this, you know, status, and then now I'm just sitting here at the house. And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness."

And so I really struggled with that. And, you know, and again, that's when God started kinda saying, "Okay, again, let's go back to the beginning. Who you are in me, who I created you to be. The job was just a resource. It provided some income. That was never who you were. Let me tell you a little bit about Vivian." And so God's been kind of teaching me about myself and who I am, and the personality and the innate things that He's instilled in me, and what they were supposed to be used for. You know, the perfectionism and all that other stuff, now I kinda flip that script. It's excellence. It's not that I have to be perfect; it's the expectation to be excellent in all that I do, you know? Yeah. To honor God. And so we're learning. Just like you said, all those little neural things, I'm learning new pathways, little bit by little bit, and I'm giving myself grace, and I'm trying to be very patient with myself because I also have that type A personality that just wants to get everything done now.

But I'm having to give myself some grace so that I can really dive deep into my spirit and soul and learn who I am in Christ. And so yeah, I'm always on a journey, it feels like. But it's good.

Dawn Damon: I think ... Yeah, I think we all are. You know, that's well said. We are on a journey. We're on a pilgrimage. We're all becoming, as you said a moment ago, from glory to glory. And I had the same thing. You know, when you lose titles, we don't recognize maybe how enmeshed our titles are with our identity. And, and when that thread is pulled, and that thread is pulled, if we feel very vulnerable or very unbalanced. Like, I don't know what I do know, or who I am important to, or what relationships, and even if we don't have titles, you know, as midlife and beyond, most of my women are probably beyond midlife, but it's a transition.

Yep. Whether we like it or not, we're transitioning. Our kids are out of the house, probably. Our bodies are changing. Oh, yes. Our careers are changing. Our metabolism is changing. Mm-hmm. You know, a very interesting time of life. And, you know, we're all on that journey. You know, when we think about this whole area of overwhelm and striving and burnout, I think it's kind of sneaky. I think it's the silent epidemic, as you call it, that really can wreak havoc with so many women. Have you found that to be true?

Vivian Cumins: Absolutely. I think that as women, we're so used to being everything to everyone, to the point where we neglect ourselves.

Dawn Damon: Yep.

Vivian Cumins: And then, you know, your body starts to be neglected, your mental stability becomes neglected, your spiritual life becomes neglected, and little by little you just start to erode away until you have that breakdown, you know? And so we're not good about asking for help. I know for me personally, you know, asking for help or admitting that I was having any type of a mental crisis, it was a sign of weakness for me. And so I never wanted to share. In fact, you know, my husband knew nothing about any of this stuff that I share in my books or that I've shared on podcasts. He didn't know those things. You know, he comes from a background where you just suck everything up, and you just get it done. He's a former military man, and he has a certain mindset that you just get it done and you don't show weakness. And, you know, I kinda played into that a little bit, you know.

Yeah. And so I think, you know, one of the things that I have learned in this journey and that I try to impart upon women is do not be afraid to ask for help. You know, if you're feeling down and you just can't get out of it, you need to get some help. Because eventually you're gonna get to that point where you're on the floor like me wanting to commit suicide, and praise God He delivered me from that, but there are a lot of people who don't get delivered from that. Yeah. And so that's one of the biggest things that I try to advocate for women now: just to ask for that help.

Dawn Damon: Yes. That's so important. I'm just gonna say it again. There's no shame in asking for help, and sometimes, bravehearted women, asking for help is one of the bravest things that you can do. Are there telltale signs that somebody might be heading for a crisis, emotional or mental? I know we don't really break down so much, but just that we hit the wall, that I can't go anymore, I can't do it anymore. Are there signs to look for? Aside

Vivian Cumins: Yeah, I think so. I mean, first, I would say the physical signs. Listen to your body. I couldn't even form a thought anymore. I mean, it started off, and it was kind of funny because I would, like, misplace things, and I would find my readers in the refrigerator or the pantry. I mean, just dumb things. And then I would look at, like, for instance, I could look at an apple, and I would call it a banana. I mean, I just couldn't think. And it was funny at first, but then it got kinda scary. Yeah. I'm thinking, "Okay, do I have dementia? Do I have an early onset of Alzheimer's? What is going on with me?"

But it was just my body slowly breaking down. So I think that physical things are definitely, you know, a red flag. I started becoming very, very tired and not wanting to get out of bed. I did, I forced myself, but if I had my choice, I wouldn't have.

Yeah, I was so incredibly exhausted, and then I was not finding any joy in anything. Nothing. Everything that I enjoyed doing wasn't fun, so I just stopped doing everything. So, I just kinda, all I did for the longest time was just sit and scroll my phone, which is a horrible habit to get into, but it- Sure ... it kept my mind numb. You know? Yes. I could look at stupid stuff and just not have to think about anything.

And so those were really big signs for me when I was like, "Oh my gosh, I am sitting here doing nothing but scrolling all day. I'm exhausted. My body's fighting me. And I have no joy." Those were scary for me 'cause I'd never gotten into that deep of space before in depression.

Dawn Damon: Yeah. Great warning signals to be paying attention to. So the loss of joy, fatigue, the loss of motivation, I suppose you could say. And then the body starts to give those signals of whatever it is. I know for me, you know, stomach ache, headache, aches, cramps, those kinds of things where, again, our bodies are telling us. They're saying, "Listen, you're about to hit a wall."

And then, of course, the first panic attack led to months of anxiety and panic attacks. Praise God, it was all treatable and, you know, we came out of it. But maybe somebody listening today, you're feeling that and you're like, "Yep, that's right where I'm at. Yep, what do I do? Who do I call? How do I stop this?" Well, I'd say call your pastor, call your doctor, share with a trusted friend, an ally, but don't keep it a secret. Am I on the right track there, Vivian?

Vivian Cumins: Absolutely. My first thought on that was, you know what God told me, "Hold on. Grab my right hand. I will restore you." But a lot of times, God's not

Again, He's not just gonna pull us out, and everything's perfect. There'll be work that needs to be done, and sometimes that work is getting help from a trusted source or the 1-800, you know, Suicide Hotline. Or, I mean, there are tons, I mean, even if you're not feeling suicidal, you can still call those numbers, and there are still people on the other side who are confidential and can talk to you. Yes. And, you know, get your mind in a space where you can reach out maybe somewhere locally and get that help. But yeah, hold on, grab God's hand, and let's get to work.

Dawn Damon: Amen. Well, it's been a joy to talk with you today. My guest today, Vivian G. Cummins, tells us the name of your book again: Break Down Better: 53 Restoring Devotionals for Burned-Out Women.

Vivian Cumins: Yes. It's called Break Down Better: 53 Restoring Devotionals for Burned-Out Women. And, alongside that book is a guided journal called A Better Way, and I'm actually very proud of that piece of work because it's for that woman who's ready to dive deep and go and partner with God. It has self-assessments, it has journaling prompts, and at the very end, I work with the folks to write an action plan for the future and how they'll live their life moving forward in a better way.

Dawn Damon: Wonderful, and they can get that through you or on Amazon?

Vivian Cumins: Yes. They can get it through Amazon. Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and Target are both also carrying it, and they can also go to my website, viviancumins.com. They can grab 'em there. There's also a free downloadable resource called A Better Way Forward, and my hope is that this resource will fall into the hands of women who are looking to do a, uh, women's group study utilizing these two materials. And so that is, I think it's about a 45-page booklet that you can download for free, and it will guide you step by step to do a women's guided study.

Dawn Damon: Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that, and we'll make sure all of those links are in the show notes, everybody. Great to have you on. Listen, ladies, if you're heading for a burnout, this is your moment. This is a call from God to you specifically that says, "Hold on, daughter. I will restore you." Take him at his word. Reach out. Talk to someone. And I'm here. Vivian's here. You can reach out to us.

I'm gonna leave you like I do all the time, bravehearted women. This is Dawn Damon, your brave-hearted coach, asking you, is it time for you to find your brave and live your dreams?