In this episode of "Be & Think in the House of Trust," Servane listens to Esther Foreman, founder and CEO (Chief Encouragement Officer) of the Social Change Agency and Social Change Nest. Esther is a leader with a purposefully anarchic style focused on getting out of the way and releasing resources to those better positioned to create change

Esther explains how the team support grassroots movements and community organisations through a trauma-informed, non-extractive approach, while transforming the funding landscape.

"Rest is radical... proper rest is resistance"

Highlights in this episode:

• How the Social Change Nest was created during lockdown to support mutual aid groups across the UK
• How "fiscal hosting" or "nesting" - provides trust-bases infrastructure support for grassroots organizations
• The philosophy behind the "nest" - supporting groups until they can operate independently
• The disconnect between modern grassroots movements and traditional charitable structures

Connect with Esther

The social change Nest https://thesocialchangenest.org/

The Social Change Agency https://thesocialchangeagency.org

Find Esther on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherforeman/

Servane Mouazan: Welcome to Be & Think in the House of Trust. My name is Servane Mouazan from Conscious Innovation and what you experience in this series is a thinking environment with people who ignite social and environmental change through the way they invest capital, resources or help us make a little bit more sense of the world. And we also look at the conditions that generate more trust, more effective and kind collaboration. So today I'e excited to welcome Esther Foreman. She's the founder and CEO, reading this as Chief Encouragement Officer of both the Social Change Agency and the Social Change Nest and much more on the side as well. And she and her team and rich ecosystem help groups to grow while transforming the funding landscape. Her philosophies focus on empowering grassroots movement and community organisation. She provides infrastructure and financial support for social change initiatives. She believes in participation in distributed leadership and sustainable ecosystems for social change movements. She translates insights into action very quickly. and boldly.

Esther Foreman: Welcome Esther, hello.

Servane Mouazan: So pleased to have you in the House of Trust.

Esther Foreman: Oh thank you for having me

Servane Mouazan: Esther, when I look at the work you do, the word that stands out for me is nesting. But not just nesting in isolation, it's like communal nesting. What are your thoughts if I tell you that.

Esther Foreman: What are we doing or what are my thoughts? So we set the social change nest up over lockdown which I think is really interesting and symbolic in itself. and it was born out of the work we were doing in the Social Change Agency of supporting social movements to grow and there was a really big need that we can see where you are able to hold a group of people together through a fiscal sponsorship or nesting as we like hosting and not be extractive and not and pay attention to the power dynamics, to the trauma informed approach. And in the US there is a fiscal hosting is a thing, it's like a normal thing but in the UK just isn't. There aren't a lot of us around and I wanted to make sure that if we were going to set something up in the uk replicating our American colleagues we would do it in a very kind of non extractive trauma informed way. And we were searching for ages for something to make it help us do that in, in a really equitable fashion. and was there's no way that you can do it in a, both exical fashion and affordably until a couple of months before the pandemic hit in the uk a colleague and one of the greetss that we were working with said if you come across open collective and in short open Collective is a transparent bookkeeping platform which sounds really boring but what it does do is that it enables you to have open books but not just open books, open books for any community group ever. So the technology is absolutely groundbreaking, in a really geeky way. But m it bas means if you're a cre people you can hold, you can hold money transparently so you just underpinned by a fiscal host or a bank account. And why that's important is because if you can remember back in the just before the pandemic or just as pandemic was unfolding, the mutual aid movement mobilised and all of those groups alough up and down the country people very, very quickly fastaster than government, fast than local authorities mobilised into very hyper local groupooves to go and get shopping and to go and get prescriptions to their neighbours and dog walking and and because of all of our work in the social movement side and research into it, we knew that one community is mobilised faster than government is inevitable. Two that often when you've got periods of really fast mobilisation and low trust, all kinds of weird and dodgy stuff happens. Foraud s yeah, mainly Foraud actually where know people are moving money around and lots of risky business risky things happen. Like people gather a whole bunch of money and put it in someone's bank account and then that person is like oh my God, I've now got 500 quid in my bank account, it's cleared my overdraft but I've lost everyone's cash to get their shopping. When the transparent bookkeep thing came up I'm like this is it, this is going to be the key to supporting the entire country. As lockdown hit us and a mutual aid movement mobilised and we just put

Esther Foreman: down all of our tools at SC and everything and moved and built social change nest in three or four months and by mid about a year in pandemic we were supporting about over 100 mutual aid groups up and down the country enabling them to operate really in high risk places doing risky. Ah well I say risky, it'not risky to us. It's common sense, you go and get someone shopping but if you're an insurance company it'be high risk. And we cultivated really high trust which meant people can mobilise and move really really quickly. So and then from there it's just grown out into the social change nest. And the philosophy behind nest and why it's called nest is I don't want people to stay put like underneath it is a, belief that, you know, we're all part of civil society, everyone has an opportunity to take part in it and to grow. And what civil society does not need is another parasitic organisation that sits in the middle of it and basically sucks up resources and doesn't enable people to go and do what they want to do. So our idea was that we will build something that would hold infrastructure in the shadows, into places where they wouldn't necessarily have access to infrastructure to the point they didn't need it anymore. And we build out their capacity, their resilience, their skill set, and help them do whatever they need to in order to be able to fly the nest and stand up on their own. And hence why we called it the social change nest. It's a long answer, to a short question, a beautiful story.

Servane Mouazan: So you mentioned a few patterns there, the hyperlocal aspect, a fast movement that can really be born out of crisis, the need for infrastructure sometimes in places where there was not any and the high trust cultivations, other patterns that you've observed that have been blossoming in, in this nesting phase of yours.

Servane Mouazan: So what I'm hearing is you've got a really complex system of intermesh movement, organisation, hyperloal things that serve people's interests on the ground. Very complex and not just that on the other side you've got a very linear, still very linear and controlling ways of working and you will manage to be the translator of these two things.

Esther Foreman: We are the intermediary between those two things. We have about 700 groups and they range from really small lovely groups like Friends at Badjger park or you know very, very local community groups, maybe cooking meals or a tiny food bank to really

Esther Foreman: amazing complex. I mean they're all amazing but you know we've got the reimagining fundraising which is the UN coalition of ingo's looking at how you innovate around fundraising in this day and age and everything in between. We had a lot of place based funding for some of the foundations we lot of our movements, a really big environmental movements for example, we've got Uplift and you know they're the ones that helped stop Rosebank being built to a really big incredible work. And we sit there and translate and manage. We hold the risk basically on behalf of the others. But the nest bit is our basic philosophy which is that at some point you can't just keep depending on us. We can't just. At some point you have to leave the last. No one's done it yet though, but we'd like them to which is that you want a thriving civil society where everyone has the ability to get involved in it and we're there to help make that happen.

Servane Mouazan: M so in short when someone who doesn't know you Yet I wonder who that could be really. But imagine someone who doesn't know you yet part of government and is into that department, that sector of looking at charity sector or civil society, what have you. They spent one minute with you and they're im boued with these old beliefs. How do you tell them what you are engaged with in a way that they are coming out of the lift transformed?

Esther Foreman: That's a really good question. You want my one minute elevator pitch?

Servane Mouazan: You can think out loud, you know, if it transforms itself where you're thinking, that's great. That's what it's all about.

Esther Foreman: No, absolutely. I would ask them how they would use a charitable registration on a flat structured group of volunteers.

Esther Foreman: And have think about what that would do to them if they were in government. the amount of time we've seen of organisations that have wasted months trying to decide who's going to be the treasurer and actually they were already doing amazing work and just needed to be enabled to go and do it and not be distracted by who's going to be the treasurer or the chair. Does crossing into ficiary and compliance work does. Unless you're ready for it, it does change and sometimes it's really good. I'm not saying it's a bad thing for that to happen. It's really important. You need that accountability. But what we're saying is the models they're using to bring that in don't work anymore. and in the patterns we see everywhere. So we're seeing, I mean we're definitely seeing a shift in participatory kind of decision making, participatory grant making. And in order to hold change with lots of social change with lots of people, you need a backbone infrastructure, body that understands trauma, that understands trust building, that can hold the risk and let people get on with it. Which is, you know, we spend a lot of time looking at risk management and thinking about risk and trauma and you know, our head of risk and compliance is also our head of innovation.

Servane Mouazan: Yeah, well they have to have a lot of imagination as welleah.

Esther Foreman: Well, this is it so. And in true anarchy you can't really break any rules unless you absolutely know what they are and then you can break them.

Servane Mouazan: Oh, is't that a call to action?

Esther Foreman: M.

Servane Mouazan: Okay, moving on. Esther, I wonder how was your leadership changed throughout this workuse? I imagine, you know, you come into this job and you're surrounded by people holding all leadership or old guard leadership values maybe and then you transform with all this. Who are you As a leader.

Esther Foreman: Yeah. I mean it's definitely been a journey and ve as, I've got more anarchic the older I've got for sure. And it's really funny because, before, when I was younger, I was just stupid. I like rebellious and now I IM m actually purposefully an archic as opposed to before. And there's a bit there about, I just want to get out of the way. I mean my philosophy is to get out that I should not be in the way. I shouldn't be taking up space for someone else, should be talking about it. My main purpose is to help get resources released into the space as someone better than me can go and do the work and we will get out of the way as much as we can and share the resources as much. And it'the philosophy is, that, you know, it's better that if three people benefit than one person benefits more because everyone gets lifted. And you know, the more we've got into it, the more we lean into different forms of organising. We definitely lean into a trauma informed approach. I've got much more feminist as I've got. I've got older. And you know, we see. We did a lot of work with working class communities, with different kinds of mums and m. women and lots of work with

Esther Foreman: the LBGTQ communities. And the more I spend time with them, not that wasn't before, but I. The more I've seem to be spending time with them, the more I guess robbatic I've become and it has changed and the more we understand in the really beautiful sense of like, rest is radical. It's more like that caring is actually a radical act because if you don't do that, you can't build solidarity. Before they were just words, but now we're practising what we preach and we've got really in depth wellbeing strategies putting into work into the organisation. we really try and cultivate that with my team and then spread it out across the network. And Rest is radical. To really understand that it actually. Proper rest is resistance.

Servane Mouazan: Oh God, yeah. Rest is a lot of work. Rest is a lot of work. As there you don't sit idly waiting.

Esther Foreman: No, no. You. To actually cultivate silence and restful behaviour for whatever that may be for anyone, you know, it has to be purposeful. It's powerful. St you ask me how my philosophy change, my leadership changed, that's changed. I think I wouldn't recognise myself from a few years ago. That's for sure.

Servane Mouazan: Mmmm M so rest is radical. That's I'm hearing another call to action here as well.

Esther Foreman: Yeah.

Servane Mouazan: so based on what you've noticed so far that your own behaviour change or your own new approach, your philosophy but what do you think what kind of behaviour is required from leaders in finance institutions to enable more of these infrastructure and nesting?

Esther Foreman: Yeah so for me the big thing is always about risk. So when we're looking at finance and we're looking at investments, we're looking at community investments like the of Barking and Dagenham giving and doing they're amazing. But it's so small. I mean it's big. They impact is huge and it's wonderful. But actually the size of the investments going through for doing community LEDs capital builds or capital investments is tiny. What would it take for an investment fund to be set up to 100 million And actually being able to put that into community led investments into community managed resources. So we're hearing a lot of words on the streets from councils and government about having community led assets but no one's investing in community leadership in a way that actually works. Do people really understand what a CIC is and actually how to manage it and then how to deal with difficult decision making and membership and there's no place to to put people to go and do that. So in the side on one of my side hustles is helped to I've been helping to get Brent Giving going. It was part the London giving movement. It's my local area and Camden giving are doing a brilliant job actually the whole giving movement everyone is great but actually you're mixing it in with other incredible play space work like the great mant of system changes where rest is definitely seen as a radical thing and actually really understanding like if you want to create social impact, if you want to shift the power, you can't just keep using the same structures if you've had before you and the same, same way that you just. It requires a completely different approach and if you as a finance person are feeling uncomfortable about it, it means it's working. So if you don't like it, if it's agitated for immediate reaction is know how this is ridiculous. You know how can they give over the decision making for like a 2,000 pound pot of money which is something that I've heard many times. If it's making uncomfortable then you need to lean into it because if you're genuine about making an impact in your community and with your funds then right now the way that we understand distributed leadership you should be feeling uncomfortable. If you're not feeling uncomfortable you're not doing it right?

Servane Mouazan: Absolutely. So the linear method is just not working.

Esther Foreman: No, you want that regenerative approach where and most of ness is built on a regenerative thing. We look to regenerate, we try and regenerate everything so everything that we do has a double impact loop on it. So yes, we look after we have a huge I guess you would call it a deal flow but we manage about £50 million worth of grant money for community groups and that in its self est social investment. But we use the profits to build a help desk support function for the groups that don't ever get community or don't ever get goantk making because they're really small. So we've got about 500 of those groups.

Esther Foreman: Really really small. They'never they're not incorporated, not even have a constitution. And we are building out a what we've called a help desk for want of a better word where they can come to us and be like how do we do collaborative leadership?

Esther Foreman: How do we do I don't know. We had a really interesting request and quite, quite a few the groups in Scotland and they were really getting approached by bailiffs so we convened a funding port and we, we've helped disrupt foundation helped get us going and we funded like some legal positions and then that was spread out back across all of the groups in Scotland. They didn't have to go and pay for it themselves. So like everything we've done we've tried to bring it back in and spread it out again. So it's always got a double the profits from the main business which is was purpose driven and charismport impact anyway goes into creating a double purpose for the ones that wouldn't ever be able to afford it regardless has no one else paying for them. So like we try and think creatively around that and about creating investment pots where we can use our own dormant assets to be redistributed across our groups.

Servane Mouazan: M Fantastic. It sounds like sort of super viral, a positive viral infection on steroids here.

Esther Foreman: I'd like to think of it as more a constantial like arrangement than us like injecting steroids.

Servane Mouazan: I don't take that back, I transform that. Listen Ester, what more do you think or feel or want to say?

Esther Foreman: I think it's a really interesting moment in history that we're facing and I think it's a very m Interesting, interesting is the wrong term. But, you know, you've got the rise to the far right coming into the uk. We've got a shift in power dynamic globally. The whole geoolitical situation is, unnerving for anyone. And we're seeing a different kind of rhetoric coming out from the decision makers in this country. And I think people are looking to mobilise and to, think about how they can combat some of the stuff that isn't working for them in their communities. And I think that if you are in a position where you're holding assets, you're holding money, you're holding buildings, people, and you're thinking, actually you're also feeling quite apprehensive about what the future is bringing. I kind of would be asking in a general invitation to absolutely everyone in that space to come and, and think about things differently. Think about this with the spirit of abundance rather than the spirit of fear. And think how much awesome stuff is going on in your local, how many amazing leaders there are. And actually what we need as those that are holding the assets and the resources to think about how we can bring everyone together, connect them up in a point of joy to tackle the bigger issues. Because we can do that in that journey is the radical love, the radical self care and the solidarity that comes with it. And I urge you for people not to feel alone in what they're doing, that there are always people out there that will join that invitation for them.

Servane Mouazan: So people, if you want a remedy for abundance, joy, love and self care, think. Consider nesting. But nesting the way Esther just described. Thank you so much, Esther.

Esther Foreman: Thank you.

Servane Mouazan: So I look forward to welcoming you back again to the House of Trust. If you want to listen to the other shows and the following shows, subscribe to the show anywhere you can find your podcast for more insights and opportunities to thank independently for yourself and as yourself and your team, head to my website, servanemouazan.co.uk and sign up for my regular Conscious Innovation updates. This is for people who love to invest in social change and ignite hopeful actions like Esther explained to us today. Well, keep connecting.

Goodbye.