"How rock bottom do you have to let me hit before you actually help me?" Brad McEwan’s words hung in the air after we wrapped, because they’re all too familiar in the building industry. In this episode, we go past the surface stuff and talk honestly about what it looks like when you’ve been carrying it all, hoping someone will notice, and then realising you’re running out of road.

From the outside, Brad looks like the guy who’s got it sorted, with business, family, and good people around him. But he shares how quickly “I’m fine” can turn into snapping at work, shutting down at home, and feeling like you’re watching yourself unravel in slow motion. If you’re a builder, tradie, or business owner who’s been pushing through stress and burnout, this conversation will hit close to home.

We chat about why grit without communication becomes isolation, and how stress shows up in your relationships, sleep, patience, and confidence. Brad talks about what actually helped, including getting the right psychological support and learning practical tools to manage anxiety and mental health in real life, not just in theory, especially in high-pressure trade work.

This episode challenges the usual definition of “tough” and offers a better way forward, with space to step back, reset, and redefine success without losing your identity.

This conversation includes mental health and suicide. If it brings anything up for you, you don’t have to sit with it alone. In Australia, Lifeline is available 24/7 on 13 11 14 or at https://www.lifeline.org.au/. If you’re in immediate danger, call 000.

CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00 Intro

01:09 Brad joins and heavy topic

02:28 Early anxiety and trade culture

06:21 House purchase and burnout

14:36 Depression and anger stories

22:33 Pro Clima resource plug

23:42 Getting help and couples counselling

28:55 CBT tools and coping strategies

30:45 2022 crash and new limits

32:03 Crash Changed Everything

36:43 Income Protection Lesson

38:19 Identity Crisis After Injury

39:17 Perfectionism On Site

47:15 Hempcrete Engineering Failure

55:38 2024 Break That Fell Apart

57:09 Solo Builder No Backup

59:08 Work Dries Up Fast

01:00:45 Family Pressure Hits

01:02:05 Job Starts Then Sinks

01:02:52 Grinding Solo On Site

01:03:32 Delays And Cashflow Reality

01:04:58 Burnout And No Life

01:07:26 Asking For Help

01:12:35 Therapy And Breaking Point

01:22:20 Support Network And Reset

01:28:10 Rebuilding Habits And Confidence

01:32:09 Advice On Communication

01:37:01 Closing Thoughts On Listening

Our Sponsors:

Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima

MEGT - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/megt

SBA - https://www.thesba.com.au/

Biz Tech Guru: https://www.biztechguru.com.au/

Connect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram: @sanctumhomes

Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt:

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/

Another episode today, Mindful Builder Podcast.

Um, coming to you from the Pro Clima Studios, major sponsor of the podcast.

Um, love working with them, to be honest with you.

And Brad works with them as well.

Yeah.

So it's not as if we're just like virtue

signaling with Pro Clima guys.

I was actually saying to someone the other day, um, they'll…

Yeah, Brad's with us.

Brad's here.

Brad's here.

So we've got Brad, uh, on with us for a few episodes today.

I was saying to someone last week about Pro Clima, and it was a, it was an

architect maybe, and it's what you see is what you get from the back ender

side of things, where they're just like this family orientated business.

Yep.

Um, not that I was surprised when we started work with them, more so

from behind the scenes, but yeah, what you see is really what you get.

I wouldn't actually be surprised if Gus asked to join our family.

I know.

Like, he does message us a lot.

So Gus the other day, uh, so Gus is communications manager at

Pro Clima, Brazilian, and he's being a bit of cheeky to me.

So on, someone on one of my comments on Instagram asked a Pro Clima question,

and it was just after Brazil lost in the World Cup, and I was like, "Oh,

maybe you should reach out to Gus, but hey, he's been crying a bit at the

moment, so hold off a few days." So, uh, I was, uh, getting stuck into him.

But today we have, we're, we're doing a lot of our filming now

from the Wilderness Build Co.

with Kai's business, just because it's central for all of us.

But today we have Brad on.

Um, topics, how do I describe today's topic?

So Brad and, and myself and Matt and a few of the other people that we sort of chat

with a lot have, um, you know, we talk a lot really openly, really vulnerably about

like whatever's going on in our lives.

And I think, um, we always wanted to get Brad in to talk building science

and just good building and all that kind of stuff, but he did say that he'd love

to come on and talk about experience as a builder in the past couple of years.

And, um, I actually reckon this one's probably going to get pretty

heavy, because I know some of the shit that you've gone through over

the last couple of years and, um, so there, uh, I don't know, could be

some tears, could be some cuddles.

That's what we're here for.

Um, and I know that, you know, Brad's certainly been someone that I've, you

know, talked to over the years when I've had shit going on, he's always

been there, and I kn- I, I'd like to think that, you know, me and Matt have

probably been that pillar for him as well.

Because I know the last couple of years have been pretty shitty for you, Brad.

Is it be fair to say that what you see sometimes is not what you get?

Yeah.

And do you want to elaborate on that?

Let's go back.

Let's just, te- tell us where this all started.

I mean, 'cause-

That's why, that's why I sort of, yeah,

I was using it as

a- Yeah.

Yeah, I think we had a chat back in the day when yous first started,

um, about sort of my pathway and, you know, whatever else.

And I knew, obviously I'm… Fuck, I've never been so

nervous for a podcast before.

Um, I knew early on that I struggled with s- something, which I guess

that turned out to be, you know, stress and anxiety or whatever.

Um, and it was obviously amplified heavily the more I got into,

the more I got into my career.

Um, it was probably 2016-ish, after I bought my first house, that I sorta had

my first real fucking downward spiral.

I went from having a heap of disposable income and zero responsibilities to, "Holy

shit, now I've, uh, done this thing that I'm responsible for." Um, and it sort of,

yeah, that hit me for six a little bit.

I wasn't really expecting it to, to be that way.

Um, everything had always been hard anyway, but I just figured that in

business, you know, it's, it's meant to be hard and, and that's what it

is, and sorta just wrote it off as, you know, this is, this is normal.

And, um- Were you told what normal was meant to look like?

Or was it a normal perception that you had yourself?

Uh, the-

The experiences that I had early on in the trades was definitely very

different from the world that I'm fortunate enough to operate in now.

Um, you know, everything was hard.

You worked hard.

You know, like physically we worked so hard as an apprentice.

Um, Joe, my old boss, is, you know, one of the closest people in my life now.

Like, they're legitimately like family to me.

Um, you know, he is a great mate, but at the time he was also a great role

model and the only role model I had.

And basically when shit fucking hit the fan, we just fucking worked

hard and, and sorted out the issue.

You know, "Oh, shit, someone hasn't paid you. Let's take on another job and fucking

flog ourselves till we get paid," and that, that solves that problem, you know?

It was always hard, but that sheer strength and resilience in that way

was what always solved those problems.

But there's always an, there's always an out, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

There's always a solution.

Yeah, and but the solution was just sacrifice yourself and go to work

and punish yourself physically.

Do, do you mean… When you say punish yourself, do you mean

just by the sheer hours or doing stupid work that was dangerous?

All of

it.

What- By any means necessary, get fucking paid.

That was, that was how, that was how I operated.

That was the example that was set to me, and I knew no different.

And the opposite side of that was like, "Fuck, now we've got money. Let's have

fun. Let's do cool shit." You know?

Awesome.

And so I just rode that fucking wave- For a long time because that's all

I knew, was here's a problem, the best way to fix it is just fucking

knuckle down and fucking get after it.

Head

down, bum up.

Yeah.

And so after I bought my house, like I had never… I was living at home with my

parents, and I was literally like fucking booking trips to America for like six,

seven weeks a year, sending my apprentice to go work for someone else and like just

fucking off and like living like a king.

It was the best.

Like, it was honestly like the absolute glory days.

And

this, you were at this point single.

Wife wasn't part of the- So I met Erica in… She's gonna fucking bash

me for not remembering the year.

Nah, two, must've been 2016, I reckon.

So like I met her about six months before I bought my first house.

Yeah, okay.

Um, and yeah, so I had this crazy disposable income, you know, worked hard.

Obviously, you know, all the challenges with having your own small business

or whatever were still there, but when you've got no fucking bills

and you're making adult money, it, the problems are easy to ignore.

Yeah.

You

know?

Don't we see that in like AFL right now?

Isn't it like a 19-year-old, 18-year-old- Totally … walks into an AFL club earning

huge cash, and what do you do with it?

We're n- not taught at school how to use money.

Oh, you, you… Sorry to, to, to, to interrupt for a sec. When you

say problems, are you talking about like actually like problems, um,

outside of work, like mentally?

Like, are they the problems that you're talking about?

Because you say you- No … you just ignored the problems.

Yeah, so like, you know, um- If someone didn't pay an invoice, it

wasn't the end of the fucking world.

Yeah, okay.

I had that much disposable income.

Like, I wasn't paying a mortgage.

Mm. Yeah.

I didn't have a family to support.

Okay.

Yep, yep.

You know?

I getcha.

I getcha.

All these things weren't there.

And then when I bought the house, I was like, "Shit, now

I got bills to pay." Yeah.

And I had no idea, y- you know, whether I could afford it or not.

Yep.

Obviously, you know, I knew- Amazing … that I had money- Yeah … but I'd

never s- I had never… I tell you, I had never worked out a personal budget

for us until maybe six months ago.

So on that, at that point in time, there was no- … banking restrictions really.

If you wanted a credit card, you call one up, they'd send one out.

If you want a loan, you just get one.

I mean, it was- It's a little bit more than that … being single

and self-employed, and doing the most that you can to minimize

tax, getting a bank loan's- Yeah

fucking not easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, you know, but the solution was just- Work … work your absolute fucking ring

off and save a whopping house deposit.

Yeah.

And get it done, and that's, I had always operated that way.

If I want something, I just go to work.

It was one of the first things that I loved about being a trade.

I want more money, I just work harder, I get more money.

Happy days.

Yeah.

And it worked for a, a really fucking long time.

Like, when I bought the house, I was like, "Shit, I need money now." I actually

worked, I might have mentioned this previously, I worked 72 days in a row.

72

days in a row.

And, and, and on the

tools as well And I stopped on the tools Yeah This is, uh, purely as a carpenter.

And like long hours, like 10-hour days, and I only stopped because I

had a friend's wedding, otherwise I probably would've kept going.

That was the only reason that made me not work.

And at the end of it, I had heaps of money obviously, but I was

f- fucking drilled, you know?

Physically absolutely fucking smoked.

I was struggling to have a conversation with anyone.

Like, I just was absolutely annihilated.

And it caused a lot of problems in my relationship with Erica.

Um-

Early on

Yeah.

This was, we'd probably been together for maybe six, eight-

Yep

… nine months or whatever.

She had just moved into my house.

Um, no, hadn't, no, no, she hadn't moved in, but she was staying over a lot.

Yeah, yeah.

She was staying over a lot.

Um, and there was, yeah, like a lot of conflict there because,

you know, I'd get home from work and I, I'm f- fucking toast.

Like- And go to bed.

It's physical.

People don't realize it.

Yeah.

But like I'm getting home thinking, "Fuck, I don't want to talk to

anyone," and she's there and she's like, "I want to be engaged."

Yeah And it's like, so we're just like clashing.

Um, and it was really fucking, it was really hard.

Um, I went to America, um, which is, you know, that's the place that

has always been, you know, what genuinely feels like home, I guess.

Um, you know, I've got a, I've nearly got like a whole life over there, like, and at

that point in my life I legitimately did.

I had an American phone, I had an American wallet with money in it all the time.

Like, when I wanted to go I just fucking went.

You know, um, and I got very close to, to moving there permanently

before I met Erica anyway.

Um, I went to America and I remember sitting on the dock at

my mate's place, which is normally like, "Fuck, this is the best."

You know, like I'm on a private lake in Georgia at a lake house.

There's a wakeboard boat there, and I just was like fucking empty.

I was like…

Was this after your 72 days straight?

And, and, and was the- Yeah … break of, was d- was the break you going

over to America for this wedding?

No, the wedding was here in Australia.

Yep.

Um, I just went to America 'cause that's what I did every year at that-

Yeah, okay, cool … at that

time.

So you'd work your ass off and reward yourself with partying practically.

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah.

We've, I mean, we've all been there.

Yeah, but to, but to, but to another level though.

It's not just like work all week on a Friday, Monday to Friday, go out your

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, recover.

Like, you, you're, you're-

You're balls to the wall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You,

you- Yeah, I was balls to the wall.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I was like work as hard as humanly possible and then, you know, go

and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

And I think we need to distinguish here that as a trade, I don't think people

understand the, the, the pressure you put on your body, and I think that,

um, being a physical labor intensive job absolutely smokes your body.

And I now look back at when I was like f- dad, dad's a electrician by trade.

He'd be on the tools and, I dunno, you, you're five or six and he comes home

and you're like, "Let's kick the footy," and he just wants to sit on the couch.

And you're like, "What do you mean?" I now get it.

I think, like, that physicality is what attracted me to being a chippy.

Like, 'cause I, 'cause I'm, I'm, you know- classic ADHD, can't sit fucking still.

And just the fact that you get to work, you're wearing a tool belt and you're

going all day, like I loved that.

Yeah, it's the only part I actually enjoyed too.

Oh, yeah.

I think- Fucking

loved it

… I think the difference, and I say this now retrospectively looking

back, you know, I've had, we'll get into it a bit more later, but the

last few months to really reflect-

Yeah

on the last decade of, of my life and like how I got, how I got to here.

But we wore it as a badge of honor.

Yeah.

Definitely.

You know, like I did my time with a fucking hardcore wog.

It was, yeah, like, "We are working fucking hard," like that

was what was drummed into him.

Yeah.

You work, work, work, work, work.

You know, and he said to me multiple times, you know, his father worked

his ring off, and on his dad's death bed, his dad said to him, "I

fucking wish I didn't work as much."

Yeah.

You know?

But that's what, that's what was drummed into h- him, and it wasn't drummed into

me, but that, you know what I mean?

That's just how we operated.

I mean, I th- I think it's a conversation for another time, but

I, I kind of almost feel like it's like gone too far the other way now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna comment.

Yeah.

No, no, let's, let's not go there.

But yeah, yeah.

Um, anyway, so I came back from that trip.

Me and Erika split up.

Um, I just was like a fucking shell of a human.

Um- So

you were depressed?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which at the time- Were you diagnosed

at that point, or you just, now you

look back- No … you've recognized it?

At that, at that point I wasn't, and I just had the mentality that

this is hard because it's hard.

If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Yeah, okay.

Hard is normal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And yeah, I just was like, "Well, this is part and parcel

like of, of, of what I'm doing."

Yep.

Um, I didn't know that I was depressed at the time.

I knew I really struggled with, you know, stress and like at, at that

point in my life, the anxiety was like I had a fucking bad temper, like

a really fucking, a horrible temper.

I would smash shit, break stuff, you know, like, um-

Just within yourself, like i- in your private time or like-

Oh, no, fuck no.

I'd tear off at work.

At someone or more just

within yourself?

Oh, depend who-

Yeah

… who was the fucking straw that broke the camel's back.

Okay.

But like I've thrown a brick through a builder's window

Like full scale Over what?

Just to give context

Uh, I had a brand new car.

It was my first brand new car.

It was fucking probably on its first tank of fuel.

It was parked in the driveway on the job site.

They were getting a brick delivery.

I was just framing at the time.

I was on the roof.

He's like, "Can you move your car?"

I was like, "I'm not getting down." I threw him the keys.

He moved my car.

They moved all the temporary fence panels and lent them up out of the way,

and the wind blew them straight onto my car, and I just heard this thud.

I looked over, there's my first brand new car I've ever bought, it's

literally fucking four days old.

I fucking… When I say nought to 100, it probably wasn't even nought

to 100, it was nought to 1,000.

I fucking lost it, and I just fucking got down and got to the front

of the job, and there was bricks and there was a window and fuck.

What happened?

He shit himself.

He left.

He thought I was going to kill him, which I was running down the driveway

screaming, "I'm going to fuck you up" Did he pay you to fix your car?

No.

No.

We moved the temporary fence panels.

There was one tiny little scratch buffed out.

Um, but you know, I w- I wasn't in a- I shouldn't

be laughing at this.

Like, I shouldn't be laughing.

He's, but he's… I, I reckon, I reckon your story-

The crazy thing is, is that, like, I've got so many stories through

that first maybe six, seven years of self-employment that at the time I, I

laughed at and now I look at it in a complete different light where it's like,

fuck, I was really in an unhealthy way.

Mm.

Is there one moment that… Is there one story or one moment that you just

instantly comes to your brain on that?

Like where you ne- you needed to make a change?

Yeah.

Is there just one mo- Now, now, now looking back now, is there

one story and you're like, "Whoa"?

I think throwing a brick through a builder's- Oh,

throwing hammers at people

Are you proud of it?

Um, like-

Or were you proud of, were you proud of it, I should ask?

So for context, two people have had a hammer thrown at them.

One was a crane operator who nearly threw me off a double

story roof loading trusses.

Okay.

Right?

And I was like-

Fair point

… he shouldn't have been operating a crane.

Yeah.

The second one dropped a live load of trusses into a scissor lift that I was in.

So both of them- Probably deserved it … I thought were fairly justified,

but- Yeah, I'd say that … had, had said hammers have hit people-

Yeah … we'd probably not sitting here having this conversation.

Yeah.

So- Yeah, well- … in the heat of the moment, I didn't give a shit about

what I did, but looking back at it now, you know, yeah, that's not happening.

From what

you say, I don't think they're unwarranted moments of-

Yeah, but like-

… rage

… if you're, if you're operating in that way, y- you should be

able to remain calm enough that that's not your first reaction.

So-

Oh, I think that's super hard.

You,

you're fight or f- Yeah, I, I'm gonna- … fight or flight … I'm probably gonna

disagree for a second, and, and I, I can only speak from my experience on this.

So it's pretty well known that I've been seeing a psych for the last 13 or 14

years, and I pretty much, p- probably like you, Brad, I'm diagnosed anxiety disorder.

And my psychiatrist drew, psychologist, sorry, drew, uh, uh, like a, a graph.

Yeah.

And you've got a vertical axis and a horizontal axis-

Yeah … and you've got time- Yeah

and then you've got pressure or anxiety.

Yeah.

And then you've got this normal line that kind of runs through at a point.

Yeah.

Now, generally, most people kind of, you know, go up and down over time- Yeah, yeah

… with stress and anxiety, stress, anxiety.

What I found for me is I used to go up above that normal line.

Yeah.

Right?

Up above that normal line, up above that normal line, and this

is when I'd start to spiral.

And then what happens is your new normal goes up higher-

Yeah, okay

… which is outside of an unhealthy level of anxiety, and it sounds as

if you were at that point as well.

So if you think about it, you might operate here, but you're operating

higher than what you might operate

at.

You're just on, you're on, you're on a normal rollercoaster, and then you go to

the bigger rollercoaster, and then you're on the bigger rollercoaster, and you

just keep- Absolutely … yeah.

And then all of a sudden, you've always got this level of cortisol within your

body that all it takes is one of those moments, 'cause you're already operating

at a higher level of cortisol, to just spike, and it just sends you away.

And you're at this age 23 to 25, roughly?

Yeah, I was probably like, yeah.

Yeah, you're young.

Like- So you're also- Late 20s … you're also young,

immature, lack of life experience.

Yeah.

And, and the justification to me was, they're a dumb fuck.

That's why I flew off the fucking handle, you know?

But I didn't realize how much damage being in that state of mind

constantly was, was doing to me, like what long-term effect it was-

What have you realized it's done?

Um, I just like, you know, p- people have said, you know, um, 'cause I

used to be like obviously pretty like footloose and fancy free and whatever

and, you know, people are like, "Oh," you know, "B-Rad's dead." You know?

Like that person's-

Don't you have a t- tattoo that says, "Live sideways"?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and yeah, it's like

Yeah, I've got older and, you know, whatever.

But, you know, now, like I said, retrospectively looking back, it's like

the… You know, uh, there's been a lot of things that have happened that

slowly make you withdraw from stuff, and it's like incrementally, like, you

know, bit by bit by bit by bit, you know?

And you lose that zest for life, you know, that I used to have, you know?

And so yeah, I didn't, I didn't think at the time that that was happening.

I was just like, "Well, I'm just getting older," you know?

Yeah, but I mean, to use it like a, like a car analogy, like, and even

Matt probably knows this, if you ran your car at high revs every single time

you got in it, you're gonna fuck it.

Why wouldn't I know

that?

Yeah.

I don't know, because you don't come across as a car person.

You're not a car person.

Car person.

Well, Joel would say that.

Joel will love this analogy.

Does, do EVs have revs?

Like if you, if you, if you, if you ran it at seven, eight, 8,000 revs

every single day from the moment you get out of bed to the moment you come

home, like one, how the fuck you, are you gonna come down from that?

And then if you're doing it again the next day, something's gonna break.

Yeah.

And I did it for a decade.

Well, there you go.

Okay.

So you fucked the car.

Yeah.

You know, and so anyway, we, me and Erica split up.

Um, I sort of calmed down a little bit.

How long did we split up for?

Yeah.

Oh, s- three months.

Yeah.

Okay.

Hey, Matty, I've been talking to a few people recently, and they're

like, "You know what? You've been building for Pro Clima for years.

Like, how do we get to where you are?"

So we all started at level zero at one point, and we got there.

But one of the things that Pro Clima have on their website is they have a library

of so many details, from wall to roof to subfloor to window assemblies, for

multiple different windows, on how to use their product and install it correctly,

and is one of the, the best resources you can find online to learn how to do this.

And if you're an architect and you're not sure how to draw something, they've

probably got the answer already.

And I think about, you know, 2018, 2019, when we f- we, we first started

getting into this, we had to trawl through all kinds of different documents.

We

had to make it up.

We, we, we had to make it up.

It's all there for you.

Yeah.

The answers are free now, and social media's great.

There's so many awesome videos and content out there, but the ultimate

source of truth is the Pro Clima website.

They have every single detail that you can imagine.

And you know what?

If they don't have it, you can email them and they'll help you solve it.

Damn right.

So use Pro Clima, proclima.com.au if you need to reach out to them.

We met through wakeboarding, um, and, and we sta- it was like…

It wasn't an amicable split.

I was a bit of a prick.

Um

The, I just had nothing to give basically.

Like, I just was toast.

I was like, "Oh, there's-" I've got to work.

I, I don't have any energy to put into anything other than me just

getting by fucking day to day.

Yeah.

Um, and then, yeah, sort of- Did she tell you you needed help?

So after, after we started hanging out again, you know, things sort of, you know

kicked off again really, like with my anxiety, and she was like, "You

need to go and get help." Yeah.

And I was like, "All right. That seems fucking logical."

Um- Did she say what help?

Did she say what help?

Yeah.

Psychological or- No,

that's what…

Well, I knew what

she meant

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

You know, she's like, "You, you need to go talk to someone or whatever-" Yeah

… "'cause it's not fucking normal." And I was like, "Okay." And at that point,

you know, like, this world didn't exist.

So d- we're talking maybe 2018-ish, 2019?

No, this was like t- t- Like, so did we still want to- End of, end of '16.

So we're still in the same year now?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, and I was like, "Cool." So I went to a fucking GP.

Yep.

Um, and he was, he was pretty good.

And yeah, just had a, had a pretty open conversation with him, and he

suggested going to couples counseling.

And I was like- Not a psychologist?

Nup.

Nup.

Um, I think, like, a lot of the stuff was, like… Obviously, it was all to

do with my anxiety, but it was really peaked because w- me and Erica had

different ways of communicating and completely different needs as humans.

Yep.

You know?

So at the end of a hard day, I want to be left the fuck alone.

Erica wants the complete opposite.

So she's coming home from a hard day at work wanting that human

interaction, and I'm coming home from a hard day thinking, "I don't want

to fucking interact with anyone."

Okay.

And it's obviously causing this conflict in our relationship, because

how do you meet both those needs when they're complete fucking opposites?

So couples counseling was honestly the fucking greatest money I've ever spent.

Yep.

You know?

And it was, again, she's fucking great.

Nothing to do with her, it was all of my shit.

Were you selfish or you just didn't know any different?

W- Selfish in what way?

Like, that you just wanted to go home and do, like, your thing.

Does that make sense?

Um- Like, do you felt like you'd like… Do you look back and go, "Well-"

It probably was-

Yeah

… selfish, but I thought she was selfish.

Yeah, I know.

That's why I asked it, yeah.

And, and that's, you know, 'cause it's like, I'm getting home, I'm going, "F- I

just want to be left the fucking alone.

Leave me the fuck alone.

I've had a hard day."

Yeah.

But she's thinking the same thing in the opposite of like, "I've had

a fucking hard day, I need it."

Let's go for a walk.

You know?

Yeah.

We operate completely differently, you know?

And that was my first… We did all these, you know, fucking exercises and stuff

on different personality types and the love languages and all that fucking…

It's not nonsense, you know, whatever.

Yeah.

It's obviously, you know, legitimate.

But I'd never thought about that before.

I'd never been explained to it before.

You know what I mean?

Like, I… Like I said, I didn't grow up in this world that we operate in now.

And I have this conversation all the time with Joe.

He's like, "I don't know how you're still in the building game, it's fucked." And

I'm like, "I don't operate in the same world that we operated in when you were in

the game." Mm. It is not the same thing.

It is a completely different, a completely different industry.

Did you think it was all woo-woo or at the time?

Nah.

No, you actually, so you went in pretty open-minded.

You weren't just like,

" Oh"- I've always been extremely open-minded.

Um, you know, and, uh, I've had a couple of, um, even, like, the, the

last psychologist that I saw, he was like, "I can't believe how,"

you know- open-minded you are.

Well, not just open-minded, but, like, I'm in there to fucking get what I- To learn

can get out of this.

Yeah.

You know, I've always been, yeah, hungry to learn about what- whatever it is.

I just had never been exposed to it.

Yep.

You don't know what you don't know.

No.

You know?

Um, so yeah, that was all good.

You know, whatever.

The following couple of years after that were pretty good.

I had all these new tools to deal with my stress and anxiety.

Mine and Erica's communication was fucking amazing.

We had a safe word so that if I had a absolute fucking

asshole of a day, I'd come home.

Or, you know, if we were, if we were in a situation where I

was starting to get wound up-

Yeah

… I could just drop the word and remove myself from that situation.

And then when I had the ability to calm myself down- You'd go back to it

we could then have a productive conversation- Yeah … and it

not go fucking pear-shaped.

Can I… You, you talk about tools, 'cause that's a, that's some language

that my psychologist uses as well.

So, and again, I'm not throwing this back to me, I'm just

curious to, to see what you did.

Because there's a couple of different approaches when we're dealing with

anxiety and dealing with depression.

One is CBT, so cogniti- cognitive behavioral therapy, and then

there's also medication.

Yeah.

What were, what, what were the things that you did?

Did you, did you ever get medicated for anxiety?

No.

No.

So you were using sort of CBT?

Cognitive

behavioral therapy, is that

right?

Yeah, cog- cog- cognitive behavioral therapy.

That's right.

So it's basically understanding how you respond to different, um, scenarios,

and then using the tools that they're teaching you to then respond to it.

Yeah.

Well, like, the counselor that I went to was just this lovely

woman that worked at a church.

I don't know if she was, like, full trained in anything or whatever, no idea.

But basically it was, you know, me understanding what my triggers were, and

the biggest thing for me was just, like, immediate removal from that situation

was the best thing that I could do.

And then breathing exercises to calm my- self down really.

Yeah, so that's what you're t- what you're describing is CBT.

Yeah,

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, you know, once I'd had the, the time to, I guess, reflect on whatever

the situation was, I could tackle it and communicate very differently.

You know?

So that was all good.

We had a fucking good trot.

Things sort of… You know, obviously it was always still a, something that was

on the back of my mind, and I knew, you know, this is something that I'm probably

gonna have to manage for, for life.

It is what it is.

Yep.

Like, that's, you know, part and parcel of, of- what I do.

Um, and then we got to s- say, 2022.

So Erica's pregnant with our son Flynn, and I fucking broke both

my wrists in a motorbike accident, which we've discussed before.

Um, so that was the first major step in me not being able to resolve a

problem by just flogging myself at work.

'Cause if we go back to some of the things you talked about before, 72 days in a

row, the grind, you know, you know, to, to solve problems you just worked harder.

Yep.

Like, you didn't have those tools at your disposal then.

No.

No, I was- And motorbike riding was an outlet for you.

That was you time.

Yep.

Yeah.

So you just lost that.

And, and that was… I always justified the work by going, "Oh, but I've

got a dirt bike, I can do this." You know, we had built a, a caravan.

Um, Joe, my mate, my old boss, that's what he does now, builds custom caravans.

Um, so we had… When he first started his business, we, we, you know, we built

a caravan through the COVID lockdowns.

Um, you know, mine and Erica's honeymoon was in Joe's fucking driveway 'cause

it was in the middle of COVID shit.

Um, anyway.

And let, let, let's- Do you still motorbike ride?

Do you still dirt bike or have you gone back to it?

Um, I've got a small bike that we rip around on farms and stuff.

But don't like it.

Uh, the crashed bike is still crashed in my shed.

Um, and it- Is that a

reminder of what could happen?

Nah.

It's, um-

Uh, yeah, we, we… As the, you know, the timeline evolves or whatever.

But basically, you know, I had a lot of cool hobbies, and like

that, in 2022 they were gone.

No more dirt bike and no more snowboarding, no more

wakeboarding, none of this shit.

And this wasn't related to COVID, though?

This was just- No, this was- Yeah … yeah, after COVID.

I just fucking- Yeah … had a very unfortunate accident.

Yeah.

And yeah, it f- I fucking literally changed my life and even

worked.

But I mean, let, I mean, let's, I mean just, no, d- it wasn't just a, it

wasn't just a cheeky motorbike accident.

It was a head-on collision.

You could have died.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What did you collide with, a tree?

Another bike.

Another bike.

Oh, I didn't know this.

Like, going at what, however many-

No, oh, we were only doing probably, like, 40 k's each.

What happened to the other person?

But we hit each other on a blind corner.

Did they- Like, no brakes, like- Was the other

person- … like

a full impact … what happened to them?

He sm- shattered his femur.

Okay, so both of you had

We were fucked.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, we were both pretty, pretty cooked.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, so yeah, broke both my wrists, I chopped a toe off.

Fuck.

Um.

Did you not, I

did not know this.

No, I didn't know that part.

Oh,

man.

Yeah.

Yeah, the other bike's brake pedal went through my boot.

Ah.

Um.

I remember talking to Brad the next day, and I'm, he's, like, telling me about it.

I'm just like, "Dude, are you fucking all right?"

But that's how, that's… I was on the track with, my arm was like

fucking… And I was with Joe, and he was like, "F- I've ne…"

Like, he's a solid bloke.

Like, he has got it fucking together, and he's just like, "Holy fuck." Like,

it, the accident fucked him up pretty bad as well, 'cause he was right behind us

watching, and he always rode in front.

So when you hit him- And he's like, "Oh, you go." And, bam.

Ah,

okay.

I fucking drilled myself.

Anyway, it, it is what it is.

But I remember sitting on the track with, you know, my arm fucking hanging sideways,

and I'm like, "Oh, fuck, I'll just put a cast on. I'll be back at work in a week

or so, like no big deal." You know, it's not like I hadn't worked injured before.

So I, I, honestly, I didn't think a thing of it.

I was like, "Oh, whatever, I'll figure it out." 'Cause that's

how, I'd always done that.

But how long- I'd

always just got gone like … how long before you worked out

that wasn't gonna happen?

Uh, I don't know.

A f- few, few days after the fucking adrenaline wore off and I realised

I couldn't fucking feed myself or wipe my own arse, you know?

And I was like, "Ooh, shit, this is probably a bit worse than, than what

I fucking thought it was." Um, yeah.

And also didn't help that my wife was pregnant at the time.

How, how many weeks or months pregnant?

Oh, she was halfway.

Okay.

So you, you, you had a little bit of time to recover, but not much.

Yeah, not, not a lot.

It was good practice for her, um,

you

know, 'cause she had a- And you got

to still

play with your arms.

Yeah.

Both?

Yeah, both of them.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, so had the accident and, yeah, all these things that, you know, was

the justification for my hard work, you know, getting to go and do these things

was gone in a, in a fucking instant.

When did you realise they were gone?

Did you not, not… Did you recognise it later on, or was it something

that- No, I recognised it later on.

I was fucking naive.

Yeah, yeah.

But the surgeon at the hospital said to Erica I was, I was f*cking out of it.

Um, his left wrist is f*cked.

Like f*cked.

Like it's gonna be bad.

And, um, yeah, I just was always, like, incredibly optimistic about how things

would work out and always just had the mentality that I'll figure it out.

Is that the one that you wear the brace on now?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

So there, it is actually worse.

It is- Yeah.

Yeah, okay … touched.

Um-

The other one's okay?

The other one's fine.

Wouldn't- Yeah … wouldn't know I broke it.

Yeah, okay.

Um, so yeah, it took a little bit of time for me to realize how, how cooked

it was, um, and I probably realized how cooked it was at Kangaroo Ground.

Mm.

Um, so I was in rehab for ages, um, and eventually it got to like, "Oh, you

know, just go back to work," or whatever.

Um, and I wasn't really, like, building a hell of a lot at, at the time.

Um, so I actually did a frame for Hamish and just grit my

teeth and just f*cking sent it.

And- Because you, that's all you knew

… that's all I knew what to do.

I was like, "I've just had time off work. I need the money." You know?

Do you have income protection?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

So side note to anyone, if you're a tradie and you don't have income

protection- Or, or- Or you're an

apprentice

… or anyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Literally, if you're on a tools physic- if you do physical work-

Well, there's

your mind for moment right there … if you're, if you're, if you're…

Yeah, exactly.

If you're a hairdresser to a makeup artist to a carpenter to anything a

pr- anything where you use your hands that requires you to physically do it,

osteo, physio, go get income protection.

Yeah.

So I didn't use any income protection because my accident was covered

by TAC, and you can't claim both.

Anyway, um- Do

they still pay you wage at TAC or a certain percentage?

I was about to say.

Yes, but here's a little life lesson for you if you're self-employed.

If you pay yourself two-fifths of f*ck all out of your business, you will

get paid two-fifths of f*ck all from either your income protection or TAC.

Oh.

Because they work off what your average is.

Yes.

So pay yourself.

Mm.

But c-

Well, that's easier said than done- I know … 'cause when you're managing

cashflow, the easiest thing you can do as a- Not pay yourself … you

know- Yeah … self-employed is, is, which we'll get into.

So pay yourself and then put money back into the company.

At least show that you're paying yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what I was eligible for via the TAC was two-fifths of sh*t all.

So even though I had it, um, and same, the coverage that I had at the time in

income protection was a lot more than what I was paying myself, so they would've

just looked at it the same way and said, "Oh, y- you don't make that money."

Yeah, okay.

That's interesting.

So anyway, something to be, uh, mindful about We'll get back to that

mindful moment,

yeah.

Anyway, so I fucking barrelled myself.

I had a pretty rough trot for probably a year after that, just trying to

figure out what I was gonna do.

' Cause there, there was an identity crisis there- So

we're now into 2023 roughly

you know, like, 'cause, 'cause you- Yeah … you know, I think-

Yeah, we're into, yeah, like start of 2023,

yep … 'cause you,

you'd always identified as this person that just center, that you could solve all

problems using your hands, and then all of a sudden that's taken away from you.

And I know, like- Yeah … during that time we were having heaps of

conversations around that, and I know it was really hard for you.

Yeah, 'cause I was like, "What the fuck do I do?"

You know, and then trying to f- find other people to do what I do is, is really hard.

Like, I'm actually pretty fucking good at being a tradie.

Um-

I think you, you, you're- Good at everything … you're exceptional at

being a tradie, and I think that you, your, your standards of yourself are

so unbelievably high that you actually struggle when people aren't that high.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

It's, um, it's very detrimental.

Um, yeah.

And it's, yeah.

Like, the, the things that happen on jobs impact me in a way that I've not seen

many other people impacted the same way.

Only t- I only have ever met two other tradies that wear it as hard

as I do when things don't go right.

What do you mean don't go right?

Like, when things aren't perfect, like, it eats me up in a way that

is so fucking unhealthy and so hard to deal with, that's not normal.

Like, the, the process isn't perfect or, like, the, like, the finish

isn't perfect, or everything?

The who- the whole lot.

Okay.

So, I, I mean, I've got experience with Brad being on one of my sites, and I

know him and I have had conversations about this frame at Kangaroo Ground,

and I'm like, "Oh, mate, that's fine."

And I think we've had conversations around, like, I don't think that I'm

less of a builder, and don't think that I don't care about quality, but you know,

in my whole triage of this situation right now, that's fine and we can move on.

Whereas I know it just completely consumes you.

Yeah, it consumes me, yeah.

Is anything ever good enough for you then?

It, it, like, I, I, like, I'm not, uh, like- No … questioning

what I'm ma- Yeah.

Like, yeah, is it like no matter… You, you don't reward yourself.

That's what I was trying to get at.

Like, you, no matter how well you did it, if it wasn't a hundred, 99.9,

you'd be like, "Can always do better."

Yeah,

yeah.

And it's, you know, it's something now, like I s- said, I've had the

last couple of months to really reflect on things and identify big

issues that I've got, you know?

And s- there's gonna be some things that, like, that's just my personality,

and it's gonna be very hard to manage, but they're things now that I know-

I need to,

I need to try and-

Well, can

I, can

I jump- Well, awareness, awareness is the first step, Ryan

can, can I jump for- then I might be jumping forward to maybe go back.

Did all this come a- apart or, or come around because Bax took his life?

No.

Okay, so it was be- well, before this.

Yeah.

So anyway, I had the accident, whatever.

Um, I soldiered on for a bit, you know, sort of half worked things out,

and I just was gritting my teeth and dealing with, dealing with my injury.

Um- 'Cause you were

in pain too, weren't you?

Yeah, yeah, I was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, the Kangaroo Ground frame, I was going home and not able to sleep,

'cause I was in fits of pain, and I just would go back to work the next day and

grit my fucking teeth and s- send it.

That's- Because that's what you knew

… that's all I knew how to do, you know?

So it was, the injury then sort of like set something else off in that I'm now

going to work, ruining my body more than it already is, for no fucking reward,

because now all my hobbies are gone.

Other than financial reward.

Yeah.

Hey, I'm about to go on a journey with systems, and I'm working

with James from Biztech Guru, who, he was a guest on our podcast.

He was, and I've actually done a lot of work with James in the past, and

it has transformed my business from just being this classic clusterfuck

of a building company to a systems orientated focused business.

And what is, from my understanding, it's all focused on builders, and-

Yep … we're going to be doing a live webinar with him coming up- Yep

as part of this, and it's gonna be a big introduction to systems and

how it can improve your business.

And you know the beauty about it?

It is gonna be absolutely free.

Yeah.

So keep an eye out for the dates.

Uh, this is gonna be a really incredibly valuable workshop to not miss out on.

Yeah.

So either shoot us a DM, um, check the show notes, but we'll put a link

below here to show you how to sign up.

So-

Cheers

… make sure you sign up.

It is.

The identity crisis was more than just, "Am I a carpenter anymore?" And it was

like all these things that have formed who I am as a person are fucking gone.

I'm not a… Can I be a carpenter anymore?

I can't fucking wakeboard, I can't surf, I can't snowboard, I can't ride dirt bikes.

All gone, you know?

And at the same time, I've got a kid, you know, that I can't

change his fucking clothes.

I can't… His first bath, Erica had a fucking shithouse birth experience,

so neither of us gave him his first bath, 'cause I couldn't pick the

fucker up, and neither could she.

And they're only three kilos, three and a half kilos at that point, too.

It's not like it's…

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And it's like, you know, all these things that I thought, "Yeah, fuck, I'm

gonna be able to do all these things as a dad," I c- I can't do it, you know?

I… Physically, my body, body is better now.

Like, my wrist has slowly got better.

I've got a lot better at not doing fucking dumb shit and making it worse.

And- You're letting it recover for the first time … and wearing

a, and wearing a wrist brace- Yeah … constantly, you know?

And that's, that's made a, that's made a huge difference.

Well,

I'm, I'm nine, 10 years old on from a wrist reco, and I reckon it, every

day it gets better than what it was.

Like, three or four years ago, it was still fucked.

Yeah.

The r- Do you get pain?

'Cause I've, I've, I've got plates in one of my arms from a bike accident.

I get a lot less

pain now- Yeah … 'cause I'm not fucking stupid.

But in winter, do you find it gets cold?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I

get a little

bit of

arthri- Yeah, yeah

… so I obliterated all the cartilage in my- Okay … left wrist.

Yeah, okay.

Um, so it, yeah, it gets a little bit, you know, how you going in, in cold weather.

Yep.

Anyway, after that I sort of half figured it out and we had not a bad

trot Sort of 23, 24, financially I did what I thought was really well,

like the best that I had ever done.

Um, I was able to completely support Erica being a stay-at-home mum.

They were having a fucking-

Grand old time

… a, a grand old time, and my whole life was working my absolute fucking ring off.

And, you know, coming-

' Cause this, this was around about the time of the hempcrete house too, wasn't it?

Yeah.

So 23, 24 was w- when I, when I built the hempcrete house, and I had another

project on, um, a stone cottage resto.

So I had plenty of work, and the work was filling my cup

up, like it was enjoyable work.

And so that just became my sole focus, you know?

I just put everything into-

That

… into those things.

I had just finished building a house for my parents, which, you

know, was, in itself, an incredibly difficult, um, thing to, thing to do.

Um, you know, I've, I've said it to their face, I'll never have

as difficult a client as them.

Were they difficult, or were you di- were you the problem?

Um, no, it was just a challenge in that, you know, they try to help a

lot, but it's more of a hindrance than a help, but they don't understand.

And again, this is, you know, a lot to do with how I communicate things.

You know, I'm not the most articulate person when I'm

really stressed and anxious.

Yeah.

Like, I shoot from the fucking hip, and I shoot fucking fast and hard.

As we can see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It- Yeah … really fucking-

Whi- which, which ironically is- I kind of like it … is what's- It works

for me … so endearing about you.

Yeah.

Uh, in, in, in one breath, but I can also understand if you're thinking

in your sort of mammalian brain, you know, and you are fight or flight mode-

Yeah

and not thinking about things rationally, I could see how that

raw honesty could just come out as like a barrage of like, "Fuck yous."

Yeah, d- yeah, yeah.

And obviously the more stressed that they see me, the more they try to help.

Yeah, okay.

And the more clouded things get for them, and it just fucking snowballs.

And it, it was a, it was a real challenge.

Um, anyway, so we- we're doing the fucking hempcrete joint.

Everything's, you know, shitting in buckets.

Yeah.

Um, everything's like all good or whatever- … and I'm just sort of

looking at those projects thinking, you know, "Fuck, once these are done…"

You know, there was all these grand plans with the hempcrete house, you

know, the landscaping and, "Oh, you know, we'll enter it in awards, and

we'll get Mani to shoot it," and- Yeah

and all this sort of stuff.

And, and towards the end of the project, you know, I started to see

that, okay, this is probably not gonna turn out exactly- that, that way.

Um- What do you mean by

that?

Not because of your own doing.

No, there was, like, a lot of things that were, like, client supply and-

Yeah, just I

wanna clarify that

um, they were running out of money.

Um, we had an engineering failure at the end, and the whole f*cking subfloor

deflected, which, uh, you probably copped one of the first phone calls.

Yeah.

And it was, you know, lawyer up.

Um-

And to give you context, that was definitely not Brad's fault.

The l- the engineer completely miscalculated the hempcrete weight and-

Yeah.

Well, the, the wet hempcrete weight.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then in the- All the

bearers deflected.

Yeah … and in that period had also just shut up shop and gone underground and-

Yeah.

And in fact- And

there's a stack of Google reviews that all say the same thing.

Yeah.

And in fact, testament to Brad too, 'cause if anyone's listening

to this thinking that Brad's a shipbuilder, he is f*cking not.

I've been to that house, and if it wasn't for Brad, that

house would not be what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, I- I'm a psychopath with how I do most things, and-

I fucking-

Is that how you present to clients?

I'm a psychopath.

Oh, they know.

Um, they know.

Um- In,

in, in the best way,

by the way.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

In, in the absolute- I have a really close relationship with

a lot of the clients that-

that I work with and have worked with, and, um- I'd want you

building my house

… they just understand that there's certain things that I have to do for me.

Yeah.

And just stay out of my fucking way.

You know?

Like, we just put these fucking handmade Moroccan higgity-piggity fucking tiles

on the wall yesterday, and I was…

I nearly needed to have a fucking Valium 'cause I'm like, "This

is not working with my fucking OCD," like, all different sizes.

Was that, was that

the, was that the post that- Yeah … you popped up the other day saying, "What this

picture doesn't show is Brad's anxiety"?

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

I was, like, absolutely beside myself, and the cl- one of the clients was there.

This job's for these two lovely people, Mattie and Russ.

They're fucking legends.

Um, and Russ is like, "Oh no, but it's meant to be this, like, natural look."

And I'm like, "Yeah, I, I, I get that, but, like, some of these tiles are fucked.

Like, they got pimples on 'em, and-" Do you remember- "… there's

glazing missing, and…"

Do you- So I'm like, "How natural has it got to be?"

Do you remember when we went to the h- um, to the Far North stuff?

Yeah.

And we walked past the shed and- Yeah … you pointed out the corrugated cladding,

and you said, "I really like that, but I'd actually, like, shoot myself putting that

together because I would have to match up perfectly all of the rusted bits."

And I'm just like, "Couldn't you just, like, lay it as

it is?" And he goes, "Nah."

Nah.

Get out of my way.

He goes, "I like it, I like it now, but I could never lay that." Yeah.

I have to go somewhere else.

Someone else has to do it.

Yeah, okay.

I can't, I cannot be involved with that shit.

It, it does not, it does not work for me.

Um- What is it?

What is it?

What is it about it?

I, I d- I don't know.

And it's like I look at it finished and I think, "Yeah, that fucking

looks really good," you know?

Um, but I've just always been fixated on perfection.

Yeah.

And so when you're doing- Are you a

perfectionist?

Yeah.

Are you outside of work a perfectionist?

Well, it depends on what.

Like around house, like are you, like, a clean freak and can't- No.

No.

So you, so it's only, it's your,

uh, you're just, you're a perfectionist in building?

Yeah.

On site?

Yeah.

Um, anyway, so we have this fucking engineering failure on this stupid fucking

job, and I'm just like, "Fuck. Now the job's not gonna turn out how I want it to

turn out, and it's not my fucking fault."

You know?

The clients have got fucking no money.

We've now got to come up with a solution to fix this fucking problem.

Um, so it basically ended up me doing, you know, and it's a no-win situation,

'cause, like, to them it still cost them a shitload of money, but I basically

did it for fucking almost nothing.

Um, we finished, we finished the job, and yeah, there was a- Big,

big, big shout-out to Yasha, by the way

Oh, yeah, fucking Yasha- Big shout-out to Yasha

what a fucking legend.

Um, first time I had ever dealt with an engineer that you could have a legitimate

conversation with, and he could explain things, and we could work through it.

Yep.

Um, amazing.

Anyway-

And that's an understatement- That-

… the

way that you explain that too.

Yeah.

Like Yeah.

So we finished, we finished the job, and there was, you know, obviously

a lot of client supply stuff there, a lot of things that they were doing

themselves, and the finished product on the job was just not at all what,

not at all what I wanted it to be.

What do you mean by that?

Um, yeah, there's, like, just certain things in there where I got to the end

of that project, and I looked at things, and I was just like, "Why the fuck did I

bother? Why did you get me to build it?"

So I'm just gonna jump to your defense just for a little bit,

just for a little bit here.

Like, I've seen the finished pro- photos of that project, and

I've been to the house, and I understand where you're coming from.

Like, some of the things didn't quite turn out how you thought it

might, but the house is exceptional.

Is that to do with

their style of living rather than the finish?

Well, I think that's af-

but I think that's after.

Nah.

That, that's, that's after the fact.

Like-

Like,

you know, like, they oiled the floors themselves

Yeah.

I, I hope you show a reel of Matt's face now.

Um

No, I, you see, but see I get, I get this stuff, right?

I get it.

I get- But, but I think, I think what I'm… And I think

this just- It's a natural

look,

yeah … this just talks about, like, different personalities.

'Cause I'm just like, "Well, you know what?

You painted it.

You did it.

That's on you." Like, I'm- Yeah … I'm proud of all these other things.

Yeah.

Like, and as a whole-

But

like- … the project's really good

… then it's like, okay, when we have people walk through, do I need to,

like, have a caveat and go, "Oh, actually I wasn't responsible for

that or that or that or that"?

That's what I've done before.

Yeah.

I think, and I think so.

Like, "Don't look at the painting.

Not, I didn't do

it." And I think so.

Yeah.

And it just, you know, I had got to a point-

Mentally and in my career at that point that I was like, "I just wanna

fucking do a job like some of the ones that you guys have," where, like,

you've got a landscape gardener, and, like, you get to the end, and it's

like the whole fucking job is just-

Yeah, okay

titties.

Yep.

You know?

And, you know, I had the same thing with, like, the Little River project.

That got to the end, and the client sort of lost interest there, and

I was like, "These jobs finished are gonna photograph amazing.

I'm gonna get so many opportunities out of them.

It's gonna be the fucking best." And so I ju- I just was like fucking, I felt

fairly defeated, to be honest, 'cause I was like, "Fuck, what a fucking huge

opportunity cost that I've put so much energy into these, and I'm not gonna

get the reward now of, like, having a beautiful photographed- Yeah, okay

job that ends up in magazines and, you know, to, to- Is that

ultimately the lowest point of you-

Fuck no, not even close.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, that's why.

No, we're just getting started.

I know, I know, I know.

Yeah.

So- That sort of finished, um, and I was like, I had been, you know, through

pre-con with a couple other projects that fell over and whatever else,

and I'd always just like flown by the seat of my pants, not really given

a f- much of a fuck, to be honest.

Um, I was always like, "Yeah, it fucking works itself out," and it always did.

Um, and Matt kindly palmed a job off to me that was landed on my desk

ready to rock and roll, and I was like, "Beautiful, this has worked out

fucking magic." And I was like- Who needs marketing when you've got Matt?

Yeah, who… Yeah, Matt and Hamish,

they just fucking palm me the jobs they don't want to do.

Um, the, um, yeah, so this job was ready to rock and roll.

I met the clients, got along amazing, job's fucking sick.

I'm like, "This is unbelievable." Um, so I said to Erica, I'm

like, "I'm fucking pretty toast.

I'm gonna take a month off and then start this other job."

And I was like, beautiful.

I've missed out on, like, all this stuff with, like, her and Flynn.

Um, I get to be a dad.

I don't have to stress.

I've been paid for the other job.

Like, this one's gonna be ready to fucking rock and roll.

I'll, I'll take a month off, hang out with you guys, and then, you know, crack on.

And-

We're,

we're in 2024 now?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so early-ish '24.

Yep.

Um, so I get about two weeks into this month break and I'm like,

"There's no fucking way this job's starting. Absolutely fucking no way."

It's every job, though.

That's just not… Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and I was like, "I have no idea when it's gonna fucking start.

I'm going back to work." So like every other time in my life, I was like,

"I'm just gonna fucking get back on the horse." Go back to what you know.

And so now I have to tell my family that I'd told I was gonna take a month

off, I'm fucking going back to work now.

You know?

And I don't think Erica really understood it.

Flynn certainly didn't understand it.

Um, family and stuff don't really understand it.

You know, you start getting a lot of the, "Oh, but I thought you were gonna

take a month off." Yeah, I fucking thought the job was gonna be ready.

Like, uh, you know, things change for me.

And being, you know, and this is a big thing that I've

realised, I'm not a business.

I'm fucking Brad You know, there's no backup plan.

If someone calls in sick, there's no, there's not 20 other people

there to pick up the slack.

It's fucking me.

Like, I'm, I'm doing it, you know?

And, you know, I'm not this business that makes money when I'm not there.

I fucking whack shit together and get paid.

That's, that's how I function.

And you've made the comment to me in the past that some

people just don't want to grow.

They're just happy doing- Absolutely.

I fucking couldn't think of any- I love you too … I couldn't

fucking think of anything worse than sitting in an office every day in

front of a computer doing admin.

Like, it, it is just not what I see being a builder as, for me personally, you know?

Um, I've always wanted to be the problem solver on site, doing

all that sort of shit, you know?

I've got no interest in growing.

I've said many times, especially to Jack, I just want to be a myth.

You know?

I don't want to do marketing, nothing.

I just want to build cool shit for cool people and f-

One awesome project at a time.

That one's finishing, next one's starting.

Yep.

Yeah.

And- And I put my fucking… When I say I put my heart and soul into

a fucking job, I legitimately like-

And-

It is like

consuming … to give context on that, your Bubs project right now with the,

is it the cellar and the glass bricks?

Yeah.

If you want any idea of Brad wanting to push boundaries and putting everything

into it, just go watch some of that stuff.

Practically making it up.

Yeah.

So-

A- and n- not only that, but doing it all himself.

Yeah, and, but doing it right, but making it like bringing a vision to life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the rabbit holes I go down-

I know

it, uh, it's ludicrous.

It's- Anyway, I love it.

I enjoy it, whatever, you know.

Sometimes it just doesn't, doesn't work out.

Um, and yeah, around this time was the first time that things just didn't

matter how hard I worked, it just didn't fucking work out, you know?

Obviously, this was the first time in my life that I had other people relying

on me, you know, in Erica and Flynn.

Erica was a stay-at-home mum.

Um, so all that financial pressure- it, it is on me And head down, bum

up- Yeah … didn't work, did it?

And I worked out really fucking fast that without builds

going on, my money was fucking disappearing really fucking quickly.

Like, insanely quickly.

And so I just went back to what I know, which is just fucking work,

work, fucking work, and I was doing anything that I possibly could.

You were repairing a boat at some s- Repairing a boat.

I was doing farm fencing.

I- my mentality has always been, by any fucking means necessary, I will get money.

I couldn't have give two fucks what it was.

I'll clean fucking toilets, anything.

Like, when shit has hit the fan, I've always just been like,

"I'm just gonna grit my teeth and just fucking get it done."

And it did not matter how many fucking hours I put in, it wasn't

enough money to support my family.

I feel like that attitude is gone.

Which, what, what, what

attitude?

Just, I will do whatever I need to do to put food on the table.

Oh,

I'm sure- In our modern culture.

I'm sure some people have that attitude anyway.

Like, it's, that's neither here nor there.

The Yeah, so it got really hard in that now I'm like… And I had said to Erica

through '23, '24 when I was doing what I thought was really well financially,

I'm like, "I don't give a fuck if you never go back to work at all. This is

great. You get to have…" And I was so proud to be able to give her and Flynn

that life of being a stay-at-home mum.

And so now I've had to say, "I can't take this time off. I've got to go back

to work." And then that conversation started going fuck, you know.

Like, we had a house cleaner and I was like, "I can't, I can't

afford the cleaner anymore.

Cleaner's got to go." So now I've put more pressure on Erica to be able to, you know,

"Oh, you- you've got to do these things."

Clean.

And then it was like, you know, conversations around, "Fuck,

Erica, you've got to go back- To work … to work now." You know?

And then it's like, well, how do we make that work?

And, you know, some of the early conversations, you know, because

I'm waiting for this fucking job to start, and Erica's like, "Well,

do you want me to go back to work?"

And I'm like, "Fuck." By the time you f- find a job, we get Flynn into childcare,

and all this shit's three months down the track, the job will have started.

Well, three months turned into four, five, six, seven.

It actually ended up being fucking eight months that I was without.

And we're now into early 2025.

Uh, yeah, it was at start of, start of 2025.

So I sign a contract for this job, and we get started, and yeah, everyone's like,

"Oh, you must be-" You're like, finally.

Well, everyone's like, "Oh, you must be so fucking relieved." And I was like,

"No." I said, "I'm fucked." Like, I knew I was financially fucked, and I said to

Erica, I'm like, "I'm fucked till midway through this year if this job goes well."

And did the job go well?

Absolutely fucking not.

What do you mean by that?

So I massively underestimated how much labor was going to go

into that concrete works by a fucking long shot, by- Like hours?

Like roughly?

Hundreds of hours.

How many?

Hundreds,

thousands of

hours?

Oh, thousands.

So th- yeah, so yeah.

So what did you do?

You just ground.

Yep.

You went back to what you- I

fucking grit my fucking teeth and I fucking sent it, you know?

And, um, I don't know how many form workers listen to this, but I did a

hell of a lot of that form work by myself, and I stripped all the suspended

slab of that cellar, including passing out all the material by myself.

Holy shit.

Because I had no fucking money to pay anyone to fucking help me My dad would

come and help a fair bit, but he's fucking knocking on 70's door, you know?

And not a tradie, you know?

W- what else the fuck can I do?

There's no money, you know, and that's the thing.

People look at the job and, you know, yeah, it's a two and a half, $3 million

fucking project, but like you've got to hit the milestones to get fucking paid.

But you spent… If you, if you, if you think about the timeline here,

two and a half, $3 million over two years is nothing in a, in a

building and construction company.

Two and a half million dollars is fucking nothing if the house

costs $2.6 million to build, you've taken- Wow … a 100K fucking hit.

That's,

that's- You know?

That's got- And, and that's the thing, that's where a lot of people don't get

it, they just hear these fucking numbers.

And look, don't get me wrong, I'm fucking… I remember pricing that

job and going, "Fuck, I've put this markup on here," and my fucking

eyes blown out of my fucking head.

I remember you telling me it.

'Cause it's like I've doubled my revenue, my highest ever, '23, '24

was my highest revenue, and I've doubled it in one contract, bam.

I'm like, "I've fucking made it." And- Couldn't be further from the truth

… couldn't be further from the truth.

We had another fucking engineering fuck up on that job which

caused a three-month delay.

Um, now I refuse to work with anyone but Yasha.

Um, I'm bi- I'm, I'm borderline on that.

I've got a project right now that it's another engineer, and

fuck are we pulling our hair out.

And for an extra $700 it would've been probably saved him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway-

Yasha, Yasha, Yasha, the- these, these ones are free, the next

ones you're gonna have to pay for.

Yeah.

Um, yeah,

so- It's R- it's R&N Consulting Engineers, honestly … yeah.

So again, I'm going through this period where, you know-

gritting my teeth and working my fucking ring off's not, not working, you know?

And I know it's not working, and at the same time I'm, you know, looking

at all these things in my life like, I've got no fucking hobbies.

I've got no fucking social life outside of, you know, us catching up,

which is, like, semi-work related.

We don't do a lot, um, that's like-

Social

… purely social.

Or,

uh, uh, or, or going

out.

But also,

you

had a few things outside of your control, but you probably can't talk about on

this as well, that's stopped the project.

Yeah, so the, yeah, the, the, the clients were selling a

business to fund the project.

Um, and they've been completely open, but I fucking love them.

They sound like the best.

We get along so fucking well.

Um, yeah.

And they just kept getting information that essentially the goalpost just kept

getting moved for all of us, and it was a fucking shit situation for everyone.

Um, you know, and they've been… I could not be more thankful for them,

how much they care about how it's impacted me, and how much they've done

to make it right as best as they can.

My fucking dumb ass signed a contract with no liquidated damages, and they came to

me and said, "We know this is unfair to you, and we want to make it right." And

they're like, "T- tell us what you're out, and we'll fucking sort it out," you know?

Like- Geez

… where do you find people like that?

You don't.

You know?

And that's-

That's one in 1,000, if that.

It's so hard, and I knew that I had a really special relationship with