Hi there and a very warm welcome to Season 5 Episode 9 of People Soup – it’s Ross McIntosh here. 

I'm so excited to share this conversation with Andréa Watts who uses collage to help people look inside and surface what's going on for them and how it might be impacting on their behaviour. In coaching we could imagine our clients are like an iceberg - there's a lot going on beneath the surface and through the development of her Collage Coaching Technique, Andréa allows her clients to explore and reveal their inner world in a new and innovative way. Andréa is an entrepreneur - Her business is called - Unglue You and her book is called "Collage as a Creative Coaching Tool - A comprehensive resource for coaches and psychologists". We'll speak more about the book next time - but first of all let's get to know Andrea - her career path - a bit of the science behind the approach- how she uses ACT alongside collage with her clients and of course - her song choice. Andrea is an inspiration - and you'll also find out why I've called this episode the girl beneath the blanket.

People Soup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioural science, in a way that’s practical, accessible and fun. We're all about Unlocking Workplace Potential with expert perspectives from Contextual Behavioural Science.

Another first for Season 5 is that I'm adding a transcript, wherever possible. There is a caveat - this transcript is largely generated by Artificial Intelligence, I have corrected many errors but I won't have captured them all! You can also find the shownotes by clicking on notes, keep scrolling for all the useful links.

• Andréa's website - UnglueYou | Coaching Creatively with Collage
• Here's a direct link to Andréa's book
• Sign up to Andréa's mailing list here
• Connect with Andréa on LinkedIn

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[00:00:06] Andrea: But yeah,

[00:00:06] Andrea: that's how I ended up coaching with collage and, and you know, developing it, just using it with lots of different groups. I've used it with young people around self-esteem. I've used it with carers around wellbeing, a journey through grief, leadership teams for creating their visions. But strategic planning, team building, it lends itself so easily to many different, The situations, different contexts Yeah. Cause it's very flexible. although the process stays exactly the same, it just lends itself because it's essentially looking at our internal processes

[00:01:25] Ross: We'll speak more about the book next time, but first of all, let's get to know Andrea, her career path, a bit of a science behind the approach, how she uses act alongside collage with our clients, and of course, her song. Andrea is an inspiration, and you'll also find out why I've called this episode The Girl Beneath The Blanket [00:02:00] People Soup is an award-winning podcast where we share evidence-based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun to help you glow to work a bit more often.

[00:02:24] Ross: This was such a fascinating listen and resonated with me so. As a new business owner, I went four days a week last week, who was working with Dr. Haley Lewis. It sang to me, I'm all about being authentic, helping and supporting others, and creating collaborations and community. It feels so liberating to be investing in me and to being autonomous.

[00:03:02] Ross: Thanks to everyone who listened, rated and reviewed, talked about it with a friend, recommended the podcast. With your help, we can reach more people with staff. That could be useful, but for now, get aru on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Andrea Watts.

[00:03:27] Andrea: Hi Ross. Really good to be here.

[00:03:50] Ross: They don't always get everything right. Okay, so it says here, Andrea is a fellow honorary lecturer on the MSC and organizational psychology [00:04:00] at City University of London. And we all love the way you set out your story. Andrea, on your website@unuglueyou.co.uk so I thought, what better way to introduce you to the P supers than to read that out, if that's

[00:04:16] Ross: So p supers, are you sitting comfortably? Because we have Andrea's story for you. There was once a small child who loved cutting, gluing, and making things.

[00:04:43] Ross: So did an art therapy foundation. here. She learned useful stuff.

[00:05:02] Ross: Andrea

[00:05:04] Ross: will, will come back to

[00:05:25] Ross: Everyone enjoyed and benefited from it. The next year, someone came back with their collage and used it to share their story. This happened three years in a row and actually still continues to this day.

[00:05:36] Ross: And then in our story, we fast forward three years and she's considering changing jobs. She spoke to a clever lady who suggested drawing a picture about her opportunities, so she did, but knew the stick people in her drawing weren't helping her. Instead, she made a collage because it meant cutting and gluing.

[00:06:17] Andrea: Yeah, whenever I share my story, I share that collage and I start with, with that, how I felt and how it gave me the words Cause I knew I wasn't happy, but it gave me the words. And I always share how, actually the moment I saw that image, I had a really strong physical reaction.

[00:06:57] Andrea: Um, and can I share something?

[00:07:01] Andrea: So I've been sharing that sort and telling people about my reaction to it. And then while I was writing the book, because, um, one of the things that came more to the fore for me was how images resonate with us more. If we have a personal connection, they, they form from our experiences and memories and our culture anyway, but they resonate more strongly if there's a direct connection. And I thought, so why did that image connect with me so much? And this is 10 years later, right? And a memory came to me when I was a child. I was about six years old. I was playing hide and seek with my sisters. And, um, it was in the days where you didn't have duvets, you had these big, blankets that were filled with.

[00:07:49] Too good a place to hide

[00:08:05] Andrea: It's hot, it's dark. And I realized that was the connection. Cause I actually had an embodied experience with it. I had had that experience. So, um, it was like, oh my goodness, there's there's more for me in there. And it then made me think about, you know, how responsible was I at that time in my job for being under the blanket, you know, what role did I play?

[00:08:52] Ross: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that cuz it really gives me goosebumps you make me think for our listeners, how many of us are feeling like we are under that blanket and neith are not being discovered or not taking the action ourselves to emerge from that blanket. And it reminds me from one of our previous guests, Mike Jones, and it is a quote I hate to look up during the chat with him.

[00:09:23] Andrea: yes. Yeah, I like that. it's true. I was just thinking about my experiences with coaching, with collage and, uh, this common thread that can come through for the clients and, and the recognition through that process of really going, internally, and recognizing I am more than what I think I am. that the case study in the book about a, a coach, she's a psychologist, and her view of what it means to be a psychologist or meant, I should say, and, um, it's got this image, of, of a, a man in a suit. And that was her [00:10:00] impression of what a coach should look like, how they should be. Cause she associated behaviors with it as well. And because that wasn't her, she sold herself short. She didn't think she was good enough because she wasn't that. And when she realized that she was that and more, and by that I don't mean that man, that kind of her view of what it meant to be a coach in terms of charging, um, lots of money and being very, um, people can't see.

[00:10:44] Andrea: But once she recognized, actually, I have a great skillset. I can develop programs, I can work with individuals, I can work with teams, I can take things off the shelf, but I can also deliver really bespoke, especially for the, the clients. She's like, oh my goodness, I, I am enough actually, I am enough.

[00:11:13] Ross: Beautiful. It's such a treat to listen to you, Andrea and p supers. you'll have gathered by now that Andrea is a beautiful storyteller. You really make it relevant and intriguing with, with the reflections from you and your clients in the book.

[00:11:55] Ross: She thought this could help a lot more people. So she took a leap [00:12:00] of faith and created a business called ung You. And today, UNG you offers a whole host of services including group workshops, one-to-one coaching, c p d training for coaches and supervision, keynote speaking. And they also uncovered something that maybe not a lot of people know.

[00:12:42] Andrea: Yeah. I quite like the fact that I did this because it's a really good way of helping people to recognize that creativity. Moving away from that left brain, right brain, thinking about it being neural networks, because you would never put. Salesforce database administration with coaching with Collage you'd think they'd have to be two separate people.

[00:13:25] Andrea: The data told a story, so there was that part of it. And if you know how to look for it, you can find out and, having that information, it told stories that then allowed the teams to be like, okay, how do we use our services? Where do we put our time? Where do we put our energy based on what the data is telling us?

[00:14:08] Andrea: And so they had these separate teams and they needed to work together. but it was hard because they were putting data in, in different ways. And so sometimes they'd ask me to do something and I'd have to be like, okay, how am I gonna, how am I gonna solve this? How am I gonna resolve this and, and make it work for the organization?

[00:14:46] Andrea: I have to edit, I rationalize it. But between that I'm playing, I'm playing with the system. Lemme try this. Let me try that. So just to me, it mirrored the collage coaching technique I was gathering, I was creating, and then the storytelling. Once I'd resolved it, they were able to story tell with the data.

[00:15:20] Things aren't in silos

[00:15:26] Andrea: learning takes place across many different disciplines. and when we learn to bring them together, when we understand how they fit together or how we can use them together, the learning and the outcomes are so much better. I think I just really strongly believe that, there's something just, there's something called STEM, right?

[00:15:50] Ross: Ooh.

[00:15:54] Ross: Oh, I didn't know they called it Steam in America. But hearing you speak makes, makes me [00:16:00] think about how we can really become inflexibly trapped by a job title. like Salesforce database administrator. It just sounds, oh,

[00:16:13] Ross: it sounds like there is not one iotta of creativity in that description and that could influence how someone shows up or approaches that, job, and they could just be completely.

[00:16:52] Ross: But what you've done is added a layer to that and realized the crossover between the job and the new venture and how they are absolutely complimentary and not in these separate containers.

[00:17:23]

[00:17:31] Andrea: Oh yes I do. Cuz on that, co I was talking about that first one I created. There was a woman dancing in red. She's positioned above the girl under the blanket. Next to the girl under the blanket is another little girl with a hand up. And I knew she was gonna be like, it's time to come out now.

[00:18:08] Andrea: And again, it's a metaphor. Obviously. I'm not literally dancing about all the time. but that idea of that freedom, that being able to express all of who I am, the energy that that brings, cuz it's red, that's a high higher energy because I'm not doing a job that I don't enjoy. I'm doing something I love, so I have more energy for it.

[00:18:48] Ross: Wonderful. And so that's a little insight from the research department, but I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing a bit more about your background and your career, how you've got to where you are today, and some, some, maybe a couple of pivotal moments along the way.

[00:19:26] Andrea: Um, and that wasn't the case in retail. I actually wanted to be an occupational therapist, but, um, , I couldn't find a job in it. So, um, I worked as a hobby therapist was my first job working with elderly people doing activities. So it allowed that creative thing again. Then I worked for Leonard Cheshire and that was one of my favorite jobs.

[00:20:09] Andrea: And, and also that idea of empowerment. So we'd have team Meetings And they would decide what they were gonna do, they would decide which volunteers would come in. and that hadn't been the case before. So it's very much, if somebody can't use their hands, what equipment can we provide for them that enables them to type, but without using their hands so they have something they could put on their head with a pointer.

[00:20:50] Andrea: So I, I loved that job and I know how important relationships are to me, and they still are. And to working with the people, getting to know them. , you know, they were almost like a second family to be honest, because you were just with them every single day. but I did love that job and I did well in that job and I learned a lot about myself and the things that bring me joy.

[00:21:28] Andrea: We didn't give advice and, and that I've brought with me into coaching, you know, cause that's not what we do. It's like, This is how I can support you, but actually you have to make that decision. Even if with when I worked for powers, like, well, I'm not sure that's a great decision. You wouldn't say, you'd just be like, okay, this could be the potential outcome if you do this, and they would choose.

[00:22:06] Andrea: And I was the lead for training and development. And so I was supporting staff through the redundancy process. I had my own office as in an office building, and we had to close two of our offices. I was responsible for that. It was very, just stressful time and, and particularly for for people.

[00:22:46] Andrea: But as part of that, I did this degree and I deliberately chose Kingston Uni because I wanted to do creativity and leadership. Because I think, how can I marry creativity and my leadership role? And that's when I found out about the neuroscience of creativity. I was like, oh, okay. Um, cause I, you know, was an artist first and foremost, and I was like, I just, you know, I didn't think about what's happening in my mind.

[00:23:15] Not being yourself anymore

[00:23:28] Andrea: And I was really conscious that this was happening to me. And so I went to see a careers coach, and she did a visualization exercise. And where do you wanna be one year, five year, 10, et cetera. And I thought about the doors opening and she said to me, Go and draw it. And that's the bit that's part of the story.

[00:24:11] Andrea: But yeah,

[00:24:11] Andrea: that's how I ended up coaching with collage and, and you know, developing it, just using it with lots of different groups. I've used it with young people around self-esteem. I've used it with carers around wellbeing, a journey through grief, leadership teams for creating their visions. But strategic planning, team building, it lends itself so easily to many different, The situations, different contexts Yeah. Cause it's very flexible. although the process stays exactly the same, it just lends itself because it's essentially looking at our internal processes

[00:25:12] Andrea: I really like afraid keep going through the undergrowth because, You can't see where you're going. yeah, cuz one my friend, when I was in the early years of one clue You, it was really hard to be honest because people would be like, it's a vision board. I'm like, it's not a vision board. So I spent a lot of my time trying to educate people.

[00:25:54] Andrea: Not much is happening, in fact feels like nothing is happening. and he said, it's like mining, you know, you've got [00:26:00] big pick acts. And he said, just keep going. And little chunks have falling off. And one day the light pin prick of light will come through and then you keep going. And you, and I always loved that.

[00:26:20] Ross: sometimes we can give up just before that pinpoint of light. Appears or just before we discover something new in, in the undergrowth . I'm not sure how that, that metaphor works with that, but, um, yeah. I'm intrigued about the name ung. You

[00:26:42] Andrea: I can't claim, what's it called cuz I didn't name it. My husband did. My husband's such a wordsmith. So I , I've actually kept all the different names, I'm wanting to call it. One of them was mist to mirror every time we said it out loud. Sorry, missed taira. And I was like, I'm not gonna keep explaining that it's missed to a mirror.

[00:27:14] Andrea: What do you think? And he looked at it. He went, UNG Glue you. I was like, that's it. That's the name. and I love the name and lots of people, it's really memorable. That's what it says on the tin. And everybody really loves it. And I'm like, yep. Wish I could say it was me.

[00:27:32] Ross: But it's, it's a, it's a family

[00:27:35] USING ACT

[00:27:45] Andrea: Yeah.

[00:27:50] Ross: Have you found that act has been useful in, in developing your, your concept and your work?

[00:28:34] Ross: It's, it's called a, A physicalizing exercise.

[00:28:37] Andrea: also the one about, I always remember this one, again, where you have a feeling or a thought and not getting hooked into it and engaging with it, but actually just noticing it, observing it, which is also that mindfulness piece, isn't it? And we did this exercise where we just put it on our lap. So rather than holding it, we had to hold it out in front of first and and feel like, oh gosh, the how your arms start to ache after a while. What's it like when you just put it on your lap? Just sit with it.

[00:29:10] A place of acceptance

[00:29:32] Andrea: But actually this is my situation. These are my feelings or thought. And I can be with those and recognize that they're there, but them not stopping me from moving forward, them not hindering me or overwhelming me. Just accepting them but knowing you can still change your situation. and it was interesting when I wrote the book, because there were there six or seven client reflections and without fail, every single [00:30:00] one of them said their collage just helped 'em move to this place of acceptance.

[00:30:16] These opposites can co-exist

[00:30:23] Andrea: Clients are guided to gather, all images that resonate with them if they make them feel uncomfortable, which one of the big differences with the vision board. but they allow, clients to see actually these two, what we would normally call opposing or opposites. Coexist. They coexist in my mind, but they can coexist on the paper as well.

[00:30:47] Ross: I really do agree that that bringing it out there and having a look at it, whether you are writing down your thoughts, whether you are doing some sort of meditative exercise. Can really help us start to change our relationship with that and, and realize that there are other possibilities.

[00:31:12] Ross: So, Andrea, thank you so much for being so open and reflective. I think we're really getting to know your, your style and your motivation for writing the book, which we'll come onto in, in part two of our chat. But I've got a question for you.

[00:31:37] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, when you asked me this, I had to think of there was the idea of walking into a room and the, the song that would come out. And for me it's, Jimmy Cliffs. I can see clearly now. For anyone who doesn't know it, I'm really tempted to sing. Right. okay, , here we go. I can see clearly now the rain is gone. [00:32:00] I can see your obstacles in my way. Dark clouds down. It's gonna be a

[00:32:35] Ross: Andrea, thank you.

[00:32:41] Andrea: Yeah, it's, there's a couple of reasons. it's really uplifting that song, and there was a period near the beginning, beginning middle of my journey with UnglueYou to date, where, you know, I was talking about the pick acts. And we feel like, again, and, to stay motivated can be quite hard. especially if you're, you're by yourself.

[00:33:20] Andrea: It's, it's gonna be a bright sunshine day. And I felt so positive. And so for now, after I'd written the book, I've had such clarity about the collage coaching technique. It was the book that gave it the name because I thought I need to actually give it a name now because I didn't have one. and it had be in this journey of finding my way with it, trying this, trying with this group delivering like this. And I'm like, This is it. And so that I can see clearly. Now that line refers to that. I am so certain and so sure. what it is, what it's called, how it works, why it works,[00:34:00] who my client group are that I'm going to, work with.

[00:34:22] Andrea: And in time I would like to do like a c t, right. You know, coaching for with coll for loss coaching, with coll for,

[00:34:59] Ross: You'll get a code for 20% off her brilliant book Collage is a creative coaching tool, which we'll talk more about in the next episode.

[00:35:26] Ross: And number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This will all help us reach more people with stuff that could be. I'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at people soup dot pod gmail.com. On Twitter, we are at People Soup Pod on Instagram at People dot Soup.

[00:36:03] Ross: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you.