Shownotes
1. Financial literacy should be more than just a subject in school—it's a life skill. We emphasize the necessity of teaching kids practical money management early.
2. Traditional Sundays are evolving, but should sports overshadow education and religion? We reflect on how modern priorities shift attention from traditional values and question the impact on our youth's development. Religious education’s place in the school day sparked an interesting debate. Should such activities be integrated into the day or scheduled afterward?
3. Supreme Court decisions can be inconsistent and confusing. We dive into the complexities of Chevron deference and civil forfeiture, echoing the frustration many feel about the unpredictability of judicial outcomes.
4. The Declaration of Independence signers were mostly young revolutionaries, but their average age might surprise you. We highlight the historical significance of these early leaders and draw parallels to today's climate of change and activism.
5. Can censorship and silencing opinions fuel curiosity and rebellion? We talk about how stifling free speech, even offensive speech, may backfire, advocating for the American principle of letting ideas and beliefs be freely expressed and debated.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
It's Common Sense Ohio. It's, not really a 4th July edition, but it's the 5th July edition. Sure. That way. So, Brett is here. Norm is here. Steve was supposed to be. We think he's in a a no cell phone zone or no Zoom zone.
Brett Johnson [:So hanging out with family. But that's okay. That that's okay. So, welcome to this edition brought to you as always by, Harper CPA Plus. If, you like to have the freedom of knowing how your taxes are gonna be put together, how what you're gonna pay to the government, Harper CPA Plus is the place, is the company. Those are the folks you wanna contact, for small business or personal too. Because it's not always about, you know, the company stuff. We've talked about this before too.
Brett Johnson [:If you you really want somebody to take care of your personal taxes a little bit better than the guy that spends the sign on the corner, Harper CPA Plus can do that as well too. But they're really in tune to the entrepreneur, the small business owner, because they get it. Because they're small business as well too. So, they know what the pains it takes to, you know, run a business as well as try to stay ahead of paying what you need to pay to the government and to find the things that you don't have to pay for too, to be smart about it.
Norm Murdock [:Well, and and the, it's timely to get a good accountant, especially because if the tax cuts, which expire this year, are not renewed, middle class, business persons will be paying approximately 20% more in taxes. So you really you need a CPA to help you find those deductions that you might be missing or tax credits or, you know, whatever planning you can do, to avoid a potential 20% increase in tax rates. Yeah. That again, if the if the Trump era tax cuts are not renewed by Congress and by president Biden, that's gonna happen automatically. It'd be it's just gonna sunset and then tax rates will go up. So Exactly. So It's important. It's best plan.
Brett Johnson [:Best plan. The contact information for Harper CPA Plus in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. Just a click away, and you can set up a time and talk to him. What you got, Norm?
Norm Murdock [:Well, I thought we, you know, on July 4th plus 1, we could talk just a little bit about some interesting statistics about the declaration of independence. It was ratified or approved, if you will, by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776. But all of those signatures at the bottom, they didn't actually get the last few signatures until August of 70 That's right.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Not everybody was in the room that signed that thing. The people who did sign it, the people who did approve of the document, they were all men. 56 of them. The average age was 44 years old. Mhmm. But the the majority were in their twenties thirties. The youngest was 26 years old. The oldest was Ben Franklin who at the time was 70.
Norm Murdock [:And there were only, I think, 7 signers of the declaration who were older than 60 years old. Yeah. So in spite of that painting by John Trumbull, you know, the famous painting that shows them all signed with with silvery wigs on and all that. These were basically young people that signed us.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And it's it's neat to put that in perspective in regards to how old some of those guys work because in our mind, we're always thinking that James Monroe was always 50 in our head, you know, something but yeah. Alexander Hamilton was 21. James Madison, 25. Thomas Jefferson, 33. Yeah. You know, writing something like that at 30 let's put ourselves back into when we're 33 years old.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Think about when you were 33. Yeah. I was dumb, dumb, dumb, young, and stupid at 33.
Norm Murdock [:I think right about that time, scholars will say that it was possible at about that time in history to have read every written book. Like like, a 1 person could have read all of human literature at that point, which, of course, today. It's gone. Like, you can't I can't even do my own taxes going back to Glen Harper there. So, like, you know, even even the Internal Revenue Code is so complicated. So at any rate It takes a lifetime to read. Exactly. But, you know, Thomas Jefferson being the author of, of the Declaration of Independence, it it it it speaks for how educated he was.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm. You know, to to be able to write that kind of document and use that kind of language.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:The, we're gonna get into civil forfeiture, but, like, the guy with the biggest signature on the declaration independence of John Hancock at the time had had his smuggling ship, which was called Liberty, had been, civilly forfeited, had been seized by the, British Navy. So the the Brits have this customs duty that anything coming into the American colonies was was supposed to, you know, the customs house was supposed to assess and then, charge a duty on that. And they had this policy up until the French and Indian War, in America that they were very loose with that. They really didn't charge the duty. And after the French and Indian war, which Britain won over France, of course, and George Washington, you know, had had, led British troops in that American, you know, loyalist British colonial troops in that war. So after that war, when Britain was essentially broke because of all the money they spent, that's when they really started enforcing the duties. And that's what really ticked off, you know, like the Boston Tea Party and all that. That's what really ticked off, the, the revolutionaries.
Norm Murdock [:And and it's kind of funny to think about like like, they had a 2% or something kind of I mean, you you think about it. Right? Their tax was, like, 2%. And look at what we're paying for taxes to like, they started a revolution over 2% of a tax of 2%. And I mean, we have people now, you know, of course paying Double digits.
Brett Johnson [:You know.
Norm Murdock [:Like 40% of their income tax. So at any rate Yep. It's kinda interesting to to, you know, what was meaningful at the time. And, of course, by signing the Declaration of Independence, you know, that those, those men, you know, like, they were subject to being hanged. Yeah. Like, it was it was Signing it. Yeah. Signing their their courage.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Signing their life away, basically. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, turning turning then, we might as well go to civil forfeiture. So so we had, we had the Buckeye Institute, attorney and staff, person in, to to to guests last show. And the Buckeye Institute was, filed 1 of those amicus briefs, which they have filed, like, 70 of them so far. They
Brett Johnson [:Talk about what an amicus brief is.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. So an amicus brief
Brett Johnson [:not that our audience doesn't really know, but I think it's good to It's good to to put together why they do it Yeah. And what it is.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Those Latin terms Yeah. You know? Or Sure. So if you want to intervene in a case as a non as a nonparty to the case. If if you have an opinion, like, let's suppose the Supreme Court is gonna decide, a case about, okay, abortion, you know, like like they just did with the Dobbs case. I am sure that in the Dobbs case, there were they probably received maybe a 100 amicus briefs. And what they are is simply people who are not part of the lawsuit or not part of the decision, except that they're citizens or they're institutes or think tanks or, people who just have an opinion that they want to express to the Supreme Court. They they mail, they they mail in what's called a brief, and an amicus brief means a friend of the court.
Norm Murdock [:So you're you're you're basically saying, I'm a friend of the court, and as a friend, I'm giving you my analysis of this case for you to think about. And you can throw it in the garbage can or you can use it. So in this case, involving civil forfeiture in, at it's a case coming out of Alabama. There were 2 people involved. Both of them had lent their vehicles. In 1 case, to a lady had lent her vehicle to a son, her son, and in the other case, another lady had lent her vehicle to a friend. And both of both the son and the friend got pulled over by the police in separate incidents. The son was, charged with, driving, you know, intoxicated, and they found marijuana in the car.
Norm Murdock [:And then subject to Alabama's civil forfeiture laws, If a if property is involved in an incidental way to the commission of a crime, it could be a house, a car, a boat, an airplane, whatever. They can take that vehicle. They can take that property and seize it without any hearing at first. They can seize it and then schedule a hearing later. Well, in this case, the 2 ladies who had their cars taken from them, the The other lady's friend, the guy was running drugs with her car. So both both petitioners, both ladies lost their cars. They wanted their car they wanted the cars back. And so the the state of Alabama had dragged this out for months.
Norm Murdock [:And and their claim to the Supreme Court was there should have been a hearing before they took my car where my attorney and I could go to court and argue that, hey. I'm an innocent party. All I did was lend this person a car. I had no control of what crimes they were gonna commit once, you know, they took the keys. So that was that was their position in in going to the Supreme Court against how the system in Alabama works. And so the Buckeye Institute, who we had in here last week, filed an amicus brief in support of the the ladies that basically saying, yeah. You know, before you take somebody's property away because that is part of the constitution. Right? We have due process rights before money or our personal freedom is you know, we have to go to jail.
Norm Murdock [:Like, there's a trial. Right? There's some kind of hearing before they do that. The Supreme Court said there is a long tradition going all the way back to John Hancock who had his boat seized. There's a long tradition in British, which we got most of our laws from the British system, for the police to seize things upfront. And then after they've already got your vehicle, then schedule a hearing and it has to be a timely, whatever timely means. The Supreme Court didn't decide that, what timely means. But I think, generally, it is thought of within a month or 2. They have to have some kind of hearing to say whether or not they're gonna be able to keep your property, and then you can make an argument you're an innocent party.
Norm Murdock [:At any rate, they upheld, the Alabama system. They said that there was no constitutional requirement to have a trial or a hearing ahead of time. And the Buckeye Institute filed this amicus brief, and both the majority and the minority, opinions, the dissenting opinion, they both quoted the Buckeye, amicus brief. And 1 of the this is surprising to me, Brett. 1 of the most striking things, and I bet Steve would have a lot to say about this, by the way, as a defense attorney. As many as 80% of the civil forfeiture cases where they take your property do not result in a criminal conviction of any kind. Wow. 80% of the time, they take something, a car, a boat, an airplane, your house, whatever it is.
Norm Murdock [:There's no at the end of the day, there's no conviction for that purported crime involving your property. And the majority and the minority both cited the Buckeye Institute's research on this, showing that many states, because they wanna keep your property. Right? That's a moneymaker. They showed that police are more interested in seizing the property because there's money for the department than they are in seizing drugs, which have no value to the police department. Like like, they they they they sort of have bent what kind of enforcement they're doing in order to earn income for the sheriff's department or whatever. And, both the majority and the minority had some problems with that, but yet they upheld their right to take your property without a hearing upfront. So, I found that fascinating
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know, that both, Neil Gorsuch and and justice Sotomayor both cited the same brief in support of upholding it and also dissenting on the same on the same case. So
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:You know, they actually included the Buckeye Institute in their opinion. Wow.
Brett Johnson [:That's cool.
Norm Murdock [:Which is really cool for
Brett Johnson [:you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You feel for those those 2 cases mentioned just because what if it's the only vehicle this woman has and that's how she gets to work and she was not involved in the crimes.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. The kids
Brett Johnson [:says There's gotta be some
Norm Murdock [:Mom, toss me the keys. I wanna go down and visit Billy, my my friend. Right? She does she doesn't know if he's gonna go smoke dope in the car. Right.
Brett Johnson [:You know, whatever. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:It it seems onerous to me. And I'm and I'm in in in this 80% where it doesn't even result in a conviction, They further the Buckeye Institute further goes into how Byzantine it is in many of these states to get your property back. I mean, you do have to hire an attorney. Yeah. I mean, just for starters. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Well, hopefully, this sheds some light. Maybe some new legislation comes about. Yeah. That it's that
Norm Murdock [:It's pretty good.
Brett Johnson [:You know, let's put the timely piece back to it as well as mitigating circumstances or some other due process
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:To get a vehicle back versus it's sitting there until Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know,
Brett Johnson [:if it's cleaned out and it's done Yeah. You don't need it anymore and it's really not relevant to the case coming up, Let the thing go. Yeah. But I I get the cash incentive here
Norm Murdock [:but Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:But if it's against what yeah. Wow.
Norm Murdock [:That's interesting. Essentially, if you're poor in particular, how are you gonna find an attorney at maybe $300 an hour. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:To to get your $1,000 or $5,000 car back
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:At 300 an hour. Right? Yeah. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of justice there. Right. Yeah. It seems like it's rife for abuse. The other thing that I'm troubled by, you know, is is, you know, homes. Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:So, like, you could be a landlord renting out a home and somebody decides to, you know, do a crack, you know, or a meth lab, you know, in your house. And then the police raid it, and they take the house. And then you've gotta figure out a way to justify that you didn't know what was going on. Maybe you did. Maybe you didn't.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And to get your real estate back. I mean, the potential for a police department to really, you know, lord over, impoverished or people of lesser means, it's it's it's pretty obvious here.
Brett Johnson [:Very much so. That's true. I think you can go over that way as well too. Wow.
Norm Murdock [:And I I think that's why the Buckeye Institute was trying to support these ladies because they are pro, you know, property owner, pro free marketers, pro pro, you know, Liberty. That's the kind of think tank that they are.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And at any rate, I'm sure as a defense attorney, Steve has seen cars, regularly, seized
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know, in these kinds of incidents here in Ohio.
Brett Johnson [:So, Right.
Norm Murdock [:At any rate. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, I I can throw a Yeah. This is somewhat related to last week as well too. It's I know the other, we had a 2 parter last week, and and 1 was dealing with, school vouchers, school choice,
Norm Murdock [:and stuff like that. Yeah. Yes, sir.
Brett Johnson [:And there was a story this past week that came up and this is not really school choice, but it has some some some inklings to do with, you know, during the school day that, an academy that's based here in Ohio, Lifewise Academy. It's a Hilliard based nonprofit, plans to expand its off-site bible instruction programs in Indiana following new legislation in that state requiring public schools to cooperate with such initiatives. The programs funded by donations aimed to provide religious education during school hours to supplement family values. Critics argue these programs misuse public resources and promote a specific religion viewpoint, potentially excluding students of other faiths or beliefs despite controversies. Supporters emphasized parental choice and the accessibility of religious education especially for low income families. So, it's it is now incorporated in Ohio. I know specifically, the Hilliard School System. So, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's kinda, you know, where the academy is based. But I I guess, a couple of things that that struck me about this and just some quotes from the story that I saw. Number 1, I don't have a problem with that LifeWise Academies of the world existing, but why does it have to happen during a school day? Why can't it happen after school? That would be my first question. I know that it can't conflict with, classes such as math or reading, but rather lunch, recess, or electives, library, art, or gym, which again, I don't particularly like. And, children can attend it for up to 2 hours a week under Indiana law. Now, the quote which I think again, it's that after during school and after school situations. Like, it can easily be done after school. Why does it have to be during school? And, another quote that came up to that is kind of bothersome and we've talked about this before in regards to just how, sports get into our lives on the weekend.
Norm Murdock [:Can I ask you a quick Go
Brett Johnson [:ahead? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Let me ask a quick question. So if I understand right, because I think I read the same story but it's been several weeks ago.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:They they they are not a full time like, you don't switch from a public school
Brett Johnson [:No.
Norm Murdock [:And and then and they teach math and history. No. They they teach the supplemental religious aspects. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Brett Johnson [:And and and the schools are obligated to bust them back and forth.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:So the parents are not getting out of work, get the kids from school, take it to
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:The academy location and back, it's the school systems that are forced to run buses. Okay. So During that hour, 2 hours, whatever time period during the school day.
Norm Murdock [:So we we need to update about that bill that I brought into the show And it's again, it's been a few weeks ago. And the bill required that if you were going to do religious programming during the, school day that the transportation had to be privately paid for. Oh, okay. That was in the bill. So we need to find out if that's stayed in the bill or if the bill even passed.
Brett Johnson [:I'll look through look through that. I would it. I maybe misstated that. I know. I may have misstated that.
Norm Murdock [:Or the bill didn't pass. Right.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know. Yeah. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:What what it was, if I recall right, Brett, the legislation was such that all of the costs had to be borne by they had to be privately, paid. Both the tuition, if there was any to attend, and the transportation, and it had to be taught off campus. Right. Could not be on campus and and and that that was my understanding. But maybe that legislation didn't pass or maybe it didn't pass yet. And so under current interpretation, you maybe you're right.
Brett Johnson [:And I'm wrong. I I take that that was my mistake. Okay. That Lifewise staff and volunteers either bus or drive students from school to the programmer sites
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:Or use spaces near school. So Okay. Again, the the the the transportation's not to and from. It, that piece wasn't yeah. It's supplemental Okay. In my mind, the It bothers me.
Norm Murdock [:It's good to clear that.
Brett Johnson [:No. For sure. No. Thank you. It's it's that during school day, I guess, when it comes down to it. So and again, it's my alternative in my mind going, fine. This is great stuff, but why does it have to happen during school? And and and and this quote from this parent in Indiana kind of solidifies in my mind. I I won't say her name, but, well, it's written in in the story.
Brett Johnson [:But, she said that she began sending her 10 year old son to LifeWise in Garrett, Indiana last year. With baseball activities on Sunday, the family sometimes misses church and LifeWise fits the gaps. What a great way to solidify our faith. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:To me that's a priority problem.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's a priority problem. You're allowing sports
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:To become number 1 on Sundays Sure. But but religion is more important than education. Yeah. Or There's a lot of you see a hole in school that well, they can go during lunch or they can go during library or or arts or whatever. It's like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're you're choosing that because it interferes with baseball on Sunday.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. There's That's a problem. There is a lot of, a lot of modern life now is happening on Sundays, which used to be reserved, you know, for more I don't know what spiritual, you know
Brett Johnson [:What what are you teaching your kids? That baseball is or whatever the soccer. It can be whatever you want it to be. Right. That happens on Sunday. You're giving that priority and saying, no, Johnny. You can leave school.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And go to, you know, and and miss art Yeah. Music class or, you know, band or whatever. That's cool, though. We're okay with that. But Sundays yeah. So you can do that. We'll we'll go to we can go to baseball now and not go to church.
Norm Murdock [:Well, a lot of people have observed that, like, you know, the habit of families now, you know, to gather around the TV and basically the NFL is church now.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right.
Norm Murdock [:You know what I mean? Oh, sure. Like the parents set the example Yeah. Where they choose to do secular things Yeah. Instead of
Brett Johnson [:And again, totally up to you.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But
Brett Johnson [:it's that but why are you interrupting a school day and forcing legislation
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I don't to
Brett Johnson [:accommodate you because you're too busy on Sunday morning What's the with baseball.
Norm Murdock [:But, Brett, there is a term of art, and I can't remember. Again, it was in that bill, of what the downtime was referred to. So I guess it's like program hours that are optional. Like like you
Brett Johnson [:And they they listed it as that would include library, art, or gym. Yeah. So at that time period, they are they couldn't do it during math or reading. Yeah. No. The the the the 3
Norm Murdock [:r's The core curriculum.
Brett Johnson [:Again, but some and I included look at Yeah. Gym and art as being kind of important.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Quite frankly.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. You know? For a well rounded person.
Brett Johnson [:I think so.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know,
Brett Johnson [:we let a lot of people learn from art and and and learn we we've talked about the importance of sports and gym and such like that.
Norm Murdock [:See for me Around. For me, all this busing around and breaking up the day and sending kids to do it's very distracting.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:And to me, the solution is what we were discussing about EdChoice. If you want your child to have a secular education, and in in in many and I I named several excellent public schools. And there are several, in Ohio that are like, you know, you know, Walnut Hills in Cincinnati. I think, Mentor up in, Cleveland. Certainly, Upper Arlington here. I mean, there are some there are some
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:First rate second to none. Like, the, parochial schools have no leg up on some of these, public schools when it comes to academic excellence. So I'm not going down that road at all. I'm just saying, if parents want to have a a religious element to their children's education, I think it's cleaner on their ed choice to just go to a different school.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Rather than what you wanna do.
Norm Murdock [:I would not want my kids' day broken up by well, now we're gonna get in a short bus, and we're gonna do an hour ride down to this academy and back In the middle of the day, no. I I don't I do I that's too that fractures their attention span. I I just think it's I think it's clunky even at even if they did it the best way possible and they walk around a fence and and this LifeWise is right next door.
Brett Johnson [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:I just think the kids need the same teachers. They need the same principal. They need the same they need continuity, and and and I think you pick 1 or the other Right. In my opinion. Yeah. As a parent. I'm saying as a parent. Right.
Norm Murdock [:I'm not saying in term I'm not trying to tell people what their rights are under the law. I just think good parenting is you want your child to have a calm, focused day where they can where they can really use their mind and absorb the material.
Brett Johnson [:And and give the teachers an opportunity for a calm. Absolutely. Undisruptive day that they can do they can teach the best that they can. Otherwise We're already giving them so many disadvantages as it is. They come back. Adding this already.
Norm Murdock [:They come back and they're all jacked up because they just had a little musical thing at the religious
Brett Johnson [:giving candy there or any kind of sugar, whatever, and they're jacked up. And it just IIII again, I just don't understand why this cannot be after school.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the 2 faculties I
Brett Johnson [:don't get it. I don't get it.
Norm Murdock [:And clearly, the 2 faculties have different ideas of what they're gonna be doing and so it's not even coordinated. Right. It's just, you're gonna go to this other institution. You're gonna get whatever they do and it could be excellent stuff. Sure. You know, it could be fine. Yeah. But it may not fit in with the day that they're having back at the public school.
Norm Murdock [:Right. So I understand that people want to have that religious element. I think there's a different way to do it.
Brett Johnson [:I think so too.
Norm Murdock [:But I'm saying that as apparent. Yeah. I I I'm not saying I agree. I'm not saying make it illegal. No. But I just think it I think it's probably
Brett Johnson [:I'm sure LifeWise is doing a great job.
Norm Murdock [:Or let's just step you know, you know, just for sake of argument. Let's say they are. It still is a disruptive. Right.
Brett Johnson [:It is. And and and just
Norm Murdock [:It would be like sending them to the zoo and then bringing them back into the classroom all buzzed up from just having seen monkeys and giraffes.
Brett Johnson [:In a in a yes, exactly.
Norm Murdock [:You know, and it's like you can't get their attention again.
Brett Johnson [:It's done. It's done. Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:It's done.
Brett Johnson [:Right. You know? Yeah. I agree. Anyway, so I thought that it played a little bit from last week to me. And I know we've we've referenced last week's it's a 2 parter episode. It's really we're well worth listening to if you haven't got to got to listen to it because there's there's a gentleman from Buckeye, Institute. Fantastic.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. They they really had some, data that that it was good stuff. Yep. A Supreme Court thing that, so we all know about this, because we discussed it last week, and Steve has discussed it, also. This, case about Chevron
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Where, it for, like, 40, 50 years now, there was this deference called the Chevron deference, where courts were required under that Supreme Court decision to give deference to a an administrative agency like OSHA or the EPA or Department of Labor, whatever, any any department, if they could come up with, rules, and unless it was clearly outside of the mandate, by congress in general, they were required to give deference, to the rulemaking power of these agencies. And many people felt like that violated article 1 of the constitution which defined what the roles of congress are, that only congress can make a law. And it it it and to a lot of people over the years, when congress delegated that power, they felt that that was an unconstitutional delegation from congress to the executive branch, the White House for Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter. It it that part doesn't matter. The idea is that the White House then, which controls the agencies, could make up laws by using its rulemaking power and people thought, no. Those those kinds of decisions should be made in congress. So anyway, the Supreme Court threw out the Chevron, doctrine of deference and said, now courts will decide whether or not an an agency has gone beyond what congress had intended in the first place. So that kind of brings the power back to congress and back to the courts and away from, the administrative agencies under the White House.
Norm Murdock [:So they just made that decision last week, and in the same week, and this is what blows my mind about the Supreme Court, it it upsets me because there doesn't seem to be consistency in many cases with the Supreme Court. They decide this case, and then they take another case that has almost the same fact pattern and they go a completely different direction. I mean, you know, in in in and to me well, that's why I never practice law. So I have a law degree, like Steve. But unlike Steve, I didn't sit for the bar, and I never practiced law because of stuff like I'm gonna gonna talk about here. So the Supreme Court denied taking up a case. It's called they denied this the writ of certiorari, to take up an Ohio case challenging the deference to the, Ohio to to to the occupational safety and health, admitted OSHA administration. And this Ohio case, that that can name the company as Advanced, I Think, Manufacturing or something like that.
Norm Murdock [:But at any rate, they were turned down by the Supreme Court. They did not take up the case, and they wanted to they wanted to appeal to the Supreme Court along the very same lines as the Loperbright and Relentless case, which which knocked down Chevron. And their argument was OSHA can can make up rules about how you run your company, everything from, you know, how much chlorine you put in the pool, if you're if you're a swimming pool, a main maintenance company, you know, how many flushes a toilet, can have, you know, or how many gallons per flush, you know, all of these very all of this detailed stuff, what kind of light bulbs and all this stuff. And, clearly, congress never voted on what kind of light bulbs or what kind of chlorine levels or or all none of these micro you know, how big a ladder has to how wide you know, all these things that OSHA has decided. And they wanted to bring that to the Supreme Court just like those fishermen did in the relentless and Loper Breit case, which threw out the Chevron doctrine. And the Fisherman case, as you remember, was the the the, administration agency said, you have you have to no not only have an inspector on your boat, you have to pay for that inspector, which is a federal, you know, food, a fishery inspector on your boat. You have to not only have him there, but you have to pay his salary. Well, they knocked that down.
Norm Murdock [:And so it's it's it's frustrating, I'm sure, to this Ohio company and Clarence Thomas who wrote the dissent on in in this denial of the writ. So the the Supreme Court didn't decide against the Ohio company. They just decided not to hear the case, which is, you know, very frustrating. So we'll never know until maybe another case comes up whether or not OSHA has exceeded Yeah. You know, what it's legally allowed to do. But, you know, that's kinda like how we talked about the Supreme Court knocked down, the, New York Department of Insurance, which was saying don't do business with the NRA because we disagree with the NRA's speech with their political positions. And the Supreme Court voted 90, unanimous that the state of New York could not use government action to tell other insure to tell insurance companies not to do business with the NRA. And then on that same day, the contradictory decided to turn down a case involving, the administration, the current administration going out to Silicon Valley and instructing Google, Facebook, Twitter to not permit speech about COVID or about other subjects, and, that contradiction is what frustrates me.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's it's like it's like how can you decide that case that way and then not decide?
Brett Johnson [:You don't see the similarities here? Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's just you know, and and they have usually, in the opinion, they explain some very fine distinction. And in the case of MRSA, which is a case involving the, federal government, going to social media and deplatforming people and squelching. You know, it would be like if they take us off of Facebook. You know, our show's on Facebook. We're on YouTube. We're on, Rumble. We're on a few of these. And it would be like, the administration saying, hey.
Norm Murdock [:You know, those guys in Ohio, they're talking about COVID. They're talking about other issues. The you know, we don't want them talking about that, so deplatform deplatform them. How that was not decided how that was turned down by the Supreme Court was they said the people involved did not and these were states of Louisiana and, I think, Missouri. They said those 2 states did not have standing to bring that case. And you just, you know, you fur your eyebrow a little bit and go but they represent millions of people that never got to hear that speech because it was suppressed at the behest of the FBI and the, and the White House. And and and and that's on the record. Like, that's not disputable.
Brett Johnson [:And so So it's lacking damages, basically.
Norm Murdock [:Lacking standing because I think the the view of the Supreme Court, the infringed parties were the social media companies themselves. They were the ones being told not to say things or not to allow things to be on their platform.
Brett Johnson [:Not not the plaintiffs.
Norm Murdock [:So it seems to me that the Supreme Court would have taken would have decided the case in favor of the social media companies had they brought the lawsuit.
Brett Johnson [:Social media come up with
Norm Murdock [:it. But instead it was the states and it was individual, Internet surfers, including people who were deplatformed.
Brett Johnson [:You know? Interesting.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know, like some of those doctors that wanted to discuss the origins of COVID, wanted to discuss the efficacy of the vaxxes, They were they were their opinions were taken off the air, you know. And that's pretty serious stuff.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. And I mean, it it's at, it it pretty much it states how we can't figure this out ourselves. Yeah. On any topic.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Let let's go with any. Maybe it's not they hasn't let's let's let's take COVID off the table. Yeah. And it could be the use of, regenerative batteries or just batteries in, automobiles. Okay. So Yeah. Let's say I wanna talk bad about that. Sure.
Brett Johnson [:In regards to how they mine lithium and how they do this, how they do that. Yeah. Can a company shut us down for
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Stopping that wave because there's a lot of money Yeah. Being put in that that that
Norm Murdock [:that business. Big social. Yeah. That is is also a business.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And because that you know, and and that may actually be a good analogy because that that wave of battery operated cars is is looking to change how we travel in a big way.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You know, and again, it's not life or death. You can't compare it that way.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:But it is changing the model of how cars are made.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:The aftermarket that we've talked about. Well, and
Norm Murdock [:then environmental impact.
Brett Johnson [:Environmental impact.
Norm Murdock [:Of mining this lithium. Correct. That, you know, people wonder.
Brett Johnson [:Even though even though Elon says, well, lithium's everywhere. Well, lithium's everywhere. It's like, well, okay. If it if it is, you certainly aren't getting it from everywhere. You're getting it from Chinese minds. Right.
Norm Murdock [:So and and Elon, in the case of, Twitter or now x, has liberated that social media platform pretty much. Most of the people that had been deplatformed like Alex Jones are back on. Mhmm. You know? So he has kinda turned on the First Amendment on Twitter.
Brett Johnson [:Well, he really realizes crazy is is what crazy is. Yeah. I I mean, bottom line, crazy will show itself off.
Norm Murdock [:And he's also brought back, you know, some of the more unfortunate parts of Twitter like pornography, which, I'm told Twitter now, you almost can't you can't get on there without without seeing pornography. That it's it's throughout that platform. So and and that's unfortunate. Yeah. But again, that is kind of the ugly side of free speed.
Brett Johnson [:It is.
Norm Murdock [:So you mentioned, talking about EVs. And as we've talked about on the show here many times, there the, ACLU, which, you know and and Steve had a mentor who was involved in this litigation, a Jewish attorney who worked for the ACLU defending the rights get this people. Defending the rights of Nazis and Ku Klux Klansmen to say the filthy, ugly, racist shit that they wanna say. And you had Jewish lawyers working for the ACLU standing up and representing those groups. And and that just shows you the necessity to protect all speech.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Because even even the worst kind, even the most ugly kind, because if you suppress it, what you what you end up having like they suppressed Hitler in Germany. You know, they they you know, they for many years, he was not permitted to give public speeches. And the, the Nazi newspaper was, shoved underground. And that created interest. Like, that creates, in a sick way, people are seek out the suppressed. And they they're either intrigued by what they're not allowed to have. Mhmm. And it adds glamour and desire to something that you are forbidden to see or to have.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, like, you know, take an example when, CDs, music, you know, albums and that sort of thing started getting the the labeling back in the eighties.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Tipper Gore.
Brett Johnson [:Tipper.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You know, thought this and again, it was all a valiant effort. They wanted to make sure that Her
Norm Murdock [:intentions were good.
Brett Johnson [:They were. I got you know, and and they, you know, wanted to give parents the opportunity to know that when student when their kids bought an album or a 45 at that time or a cassette tape or whatever, you know, all those antiquated mediums that we don't
Norm Murdock [:really use anymore. It was labeled.
Brett Johnson [:It was labeled as, okay, there is some offensive stuff on here. Right. Just so you know. Yeah. Well, that that in droves when you saw that label, it's like, alright.
Norm Murdock [:So that's what I want. That's what I want. It back fired.
Brett Johnson [:It backfired hugely. I agree. And it's still on there, you know, and now we don't even pay attention to it because our eyes are so accustomed to it. So to that point
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:You know, you you start to shove things underground. I mean, I've always made the point that, you know, I don't I don't see the KKK doing this much anymore, those, you know, having their day on the courthouse lawn, you know, the state house lawn. Right. And I always, in my mind, thought, if we let them be there. Okay. They got their permits and such, but nobody show up there. No. Just don't pay them any attention.
Brett Johnson [:Well, we have to go out and protest, and we have to get all the TV crews and stuff. That's what they want. Exactly. Just leave them. Don't even give them an audience. Right. They'll they won't come back.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:I don't understand this. You know, just get into a a shouting match where you know you're not gonna win. It's all for show.
Norm Murdock [:Well, their idiot idiocy, if it's allowed to be out in the open, becomes self apparent. Right. Like like like when they when they say, you know, people are this or people are that and you can see the opposite is true. You're like, well, you you guys are just you're dumb. You know, like, you you and and you let people, as you say, form their own conclusions. That's the American way. You can think whatever you want. And, you know, I know we have this culture and I say it here all the time.
Norm Murdock [:I love everybody. But but we have this culture where we think that every like hate hate, you know, people talk about how how hate is a bad attribute, and it is. But the thing is you can't legislate hate away. That needs to be taught. You know, good solid family values get passed down to your kids and you teach them that everybody has value and that they're not to hate anybody. Right. And and and and that's the way that you defeat hate. You can't let you you can't pass a law.
Norm Murdock [:This is what drives me crazy. You you pass a law about hate speech and then you have hate speech enforcement agents out there looking for something that somebody says that in their judgment is hateful when it may not be. Right. You know.
Brett Johnson [:It's in the eyes of the beholder. Like like like So in my in the eyes of the beholder. It's like, well, I I don't know what by definition it is, but when I see it, I know it. I know that it is kind of thing.
Norm Murdock [:So so when I say, for example, there was, justice Sotomayor wrote a dissent in the presidential immunity case which just was decided, where any presidential action in the official capacity of being president is 100% immune from post presidential prosecution. That was his decision. If the president did something in his private capacity, okay, then that he has a a he has a presumption, just a presumption that he is still immune that can be overcome by proof that he did that only to benefit himself or herself personally. Okay? That was the decision. So Sotomayor, speaking of hate, I mean, this is just to me, it it shows that she is a little unhinged, and and I respect many of her other decisions. But in her dissent, she said, well, what if the president ordered seal team 6 to assassinate a political opponent. Right. Right? And I'm like, oh my god.
Norm Murdock [:Justice Sotomayor. Several things. First of all, the people elect the president, And after much vetting and debates and whatever, we get to know the candidates and the people select the president. And hopefully, there's there's the first hurdle that the people chose the president and hopefully the people chose wisely. Number 2, members of the mill yeah. I don't know how she could not know this. Members of the military take an oath to uphold the constitution in the United States. It is illegal, right, for the US military to be used against domestic civilians.
Norm Murdock [:So
Brett Johnson [:It's probably a bad example. I guess
Norm Murdock [:she she
Brett Johnson [:she probably could've used okay. So a sitting president hires a a gun for hire.
Norm Murdock [:An assassin who's not in the military.
Brett Johnson [:Not in the military to do the job. Right. Okay. Now you're that that's a legitimate example.
Norm Murdock [:That's a legit that's a legitimate
Brett Johnson [:example. Could happen. I mean, could
Norm Murdock [:it could. Right. Sure. And so what are the protections if a president goes off the rail? Well, you can impeach the president. Okay? Number 1, you can impeach the president. Number 2, as the Supreme Court just decided and she she dissented from the opinion, the there's only a presumption that the acts are official. It is not it is not a blanket immunity against all actions taken by a city presidency. So if the sitting president were to hire, somebody to do something illegal and it's outside of his official duties, he is absolutely liable for that criminally and civilly.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Okay? So her example of, like, using the organs of government to go after your political enemies, Well, there's some indication that that's happening right now under the Biden administration, you know, which we've seen in, you know, these Trump prosecutions. You know, for example, the, Alvin Bragg, New York case where Trump is said to be 34 times a felon. And yet, the judge in the case did not require the jury to specify what felony they were finding him guilty of. Just they did not have to agree on what the second charge was that made the financial notes about, you know, paying this, paying, somebody, you know, to be quiet. What the second charge was, they did not have to specify. It was not on the jury ballot. And that goes against the unanimity part of due process in a criminal case.
Norm Murdock [:Unanimity means that the entire jury, all 12 or all 6, have to agree on specifically what the felony being charged is and what the felony being convicted on is. And and so that case is clearly a using the the judiciary as a political weapon. And that would be a better example for Sotomayor to use is, you know, when a president delegates his attorney general or state prosecutors to go after his political enemies in order to interfere with an election. That's a pretty serious thing. But she's blind to that and invents up and events this crazy hypothetical that no member of the SEAL Team 6 would ever carry out. They would not carry it. They would not they're not if you told seal team 6 to assassinate senator so and so, they would not do it. No.
Norm Murdock [:They would not do it. No. And and and I I don't know how she could think that could ever happen. And if and and let's suppose in the worst possible dictatorship scenario it did happen, the country elected a bad man or woman to be president and then Congress has to impeach them and throw them out.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, that's the solution. Yeah. And that's built into the constitution.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Which in that scenario would be pretty obvious.
Norm Murdock [:Pretty obvious.
Brett Johnson [:And it would get done pretty quickly.
Norm Murdock [:It would get done pretty quickly.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It would be. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, look at look at the impeachment the House did. The second 1 on Trump, they did that in 1 week. Mhmm. Yeah. They impeached him in 1 week. Right. The senate didn't convict him. Right.
Norm Murdock [:But like you say, it can happen fast. Sure. Sure. Okay. Wait a minute. You just killed that senator.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:We're impeaching you.
Brett Johnson [:We're done. It's done. We're done. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:And so why would a president do that? Was it because you're not gonna get away with it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, yeah. Exactly. I saw this pop up, I don't know why I'm on this education kick, but I love No. That's a good subject. But, but California high schoolers will soon need to take financial literacy class to graduate.
Brett Johnson [:Wow. A semester long course would need to be offered by the 2728 school year and a requirement to graduate starting with a 3031 class. Well, from what I've re researched they're a little bit behind because under Ohio law students entering 9th grade on or before July 1, 2022 must earn a 1 half credit of financial literacy as a graduation requirement. So good going on.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Love it. Love it. So, yeah. I'm on high.
Norm Murdock [:That the old fashioned word for that was like home ec.
Brett Johnson [:Kinda. But this is gonna be, you know, down and dirty understanding How do how do checking accounts and all this kind of and what what what what, investments are. Yeah. Totally. Important.
Norm Murdock [:And and we never had I I mean, at my
Brett Johnson [:school recall it. We never
Norm Murdock [:had any of that.
Brett Johnson [:But, you know, I think when we went to school, again, not that We
Norm Murdock [:went to school, walked 5 miles in snow.
Brett Johnson [:It wasn't as I think savings wasn't as complicated. I mean, in our lifetime, the 401 k developed. Right. CDs developed. I mean, it was basically about checking, savings Yeah. And the home loan and
Norm Murdock [:You can invest. The market. You can invest.
Brett Johnson [:And Yeah. That I'll like, I'm sure our parents would have and never I I know my mom and dad never invested in the market. Yeah. It was just that you didn't know how to do it, number 1, and it was just it was just not what you did.
Norm Murdock [:And you had to pay a stock broker Yeah. A pretty decent fee Right. To buy and sell, like, shares of Procter and Gamble.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Now it's a totally different world. I mean, both both our kids, I I know, our
Norm Murdock [:daughter Your sons.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right. Our daughter, you know, our daughter, you know, is starting a new job. And she in 90 days in, she'll be opting in for their 401 k plan, and she wants to sit down and try to figure this out. Our son kinda the same way in regards to he's not even though his part time job at, Christ Hospital down in Cincinnati. But in 90, he can go into a retirement. You know, that sort of thing. So it's that I it it either a force in the hand, but it's 1 of those you you do have to know what you're walking into and understand even $50 a month makes a difference in the long run for 40 years of work.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, starting out, just do something. Well And this class will help, I think.
Norm Murdock [:Brett, any kind of practicality that's injected into the school system, curriculum is a great idea. Yeah. You know? Yeah. To understand Practical
Brett Johnson [:thing. It demystifies it if nothing else.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:To understand Right. This is this is the these are the options to you no matter what income level, no matter what job you do. Absolutely. Take
Norm Murdock [:advantage of that.
Brett Johnson [:Out of function
Norm Murdock [:in a society? Right. It's more than just math and reading. You you you need to know certain things as a citizen in order to function and and I think that's that's a step forward.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, for sure.
Norm Murdock [:For sure. So I
Brett Johnson [:so I I didn't know Ohio had that in in play. I just did a quick research like, alright. Good for us.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Good
Brett Johnson [:for us. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Very good.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. What do you wanna end on?
Norm Murdock [:So I think, I I think this this is pretty pretty meaty subject, and we'll see how this plays out. But as you know, Trump has been doing, I think, what Nixon called the southern strategy where where you go very conservative during the primary and win that with your most Your base. Your base. You know, the people who are the most, committed intellectually, to, the tenets of the political party to their platform. And once you win the nomination, then you start verging towards the middle. And I and Trump has been doing that, I think. There there have been several stories recently that after the Dobbs decision on abortion, Trump has been softening evermore so his position on abortion to the point where now he is saying, it's just a state issue. It's completely in the hands of the state.
Norm Murdock [:He pledged during the debate with Biden that he will not sign any federal legislation which restricts abortion at the federal level. That, that for example, like having AAA third trimester ban, for example, which is effectively what, Roe, the Supreme Court said. Basically, you could not do an abortion in the 3rd trimester. But Trump has said no. It'll be up to the states. And as you know, Ohio just passed a constitutional amendment. In Ohio. We are 1 of the most lax states, 1 1 of the most open states, now, to get an abortion in Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:In theory, if 1 doctor you you don't need 2 doctors. If 1 doctor says that you are medically it is necessary, to have an abortion, even in the 3rd trimester, you can have 1 in Ohio. And so what Trump has been trying to do, they say, behind the scenes, his people are taking out of the Republican platform the what has been there since 1980 under Reagan. The Republican platform has had what they call a human rights amendment, which is AAA right to life amendment that they wanted to you know, it's a dream. Never gonna happen. But they, in the platform, to have a constitutional amendment about the right to life and that, you know, not no abortions. And also, to limit abortion to only the health of the mother, you know, emergency of rape and incest. And Trump is taking that out, they say.
Norm Murdock [:He is taking out all of the right to life, language in the Republican platform so that at the convention coming up, when when the platform is solidified, it will no longer have all of that anti Roe right to life, language in the Republican platform. And, he's ticking off, as you can imagine
Brett Johnson [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:A a huge segment. It could because not all conservatives are are pro life. No. No. Not at all.
Brett Johnson [:No.
Norm Murdock [:And but but many conservatives are. In particular, the, the southern, churches
Brett Johnson [:are and,
Norm Murdock [:Baptist Catholic Church, ostensibly. Although, you know, that you can get a variety of opinions from Catholics as as you can
Brett Johnson [:Oh, from any religion.
Norm Murdock [:You're right. Any religion.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, you bet.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But, this people are saying Trump is picking an unnecessary fight with his own base here. And so that will be very inch interesting to monitor, Brett. Yeah. Because, clearly, what Trump is trying to do is pivot and get those suburban women to vote for him. And he is trying to tone down, Even though he's the guy who appointed the justices that overturned Roe, he is saying, I only did that so it goes to the states and not and it's no longer a federal decision. It's a state decision. So, there's some, there's some big wheels turning here.
Norm Murdock [:It'll be interesting to see if Trump loses more of the evangelical vote. Does he pick up enough of the suburban women to offset the evangelicals who may make
Brett Johnson [:And then you roll the roll the dice, so who do they who do they vote for then? Or they just don't vote?
Norm Murdock [:Or they don't vote. Which they're saying many many in the, minority community are upset with Biden for letting in too many illegals that are taking their jobs and their benefits and their housing in places like New York City. So so they're going to stay home is the thinking or maybe vote a little bit for Trump.
Brett Johnson [:That would be interesting when it's all said and done, the numbers
Norm Murdock [:Yes. This is something to watch.
Brett Johnson [:And who clicked what if if that president you know, or or a ton of write ins. So in Milwaukee do a Steve Palmer write in again. You know, that sort of thing.
Norm Murdock [:So in Milwaukee, when the, when the Republican platform comes out, we'll see who won and who lost.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's yeah. And and and keeping eye on it on both parties.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. There's gonna be some possibly, you know, there's that talk that they're gonna keep working on Biden and try to get him to step away and the only way they could do that is then by electing somebody at the Democratic convention.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Because right now, those electors, those delegates are pledged to vote for Biden.
Brett Johnson [:But they can change their mind though.
Norm Murdock [:Not not the ones that are commit not the ones ones who are by law
Brett Johnson [:Okay. By law. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Are they have to vote for Biden. The only way they're released is if he releases them.
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Under the DNC rules.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:I think they call them super delicates or
Brett Johnson [:That okay. That's I keep here I keep hearing this super delicate.
Norm Murdock [:I'm not an expert.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know much about that.
Norm Murdock [:Understanding that.
Brett Johnson [:Isn't it interesting though this in this scenario educates us on how this stuff works, which I think is great.
Norm Murdock [:I think eventually, what has to happen for Biden for them to pick a different candidate whether it's Kamala, whether it's
Brett Johnson [:Is she on the plate though? She I haven't heard her being discussed.
Norm Murdock [:No. I well, I think people in the Democratic Party would would like Gavin Newsom to run.
Brett Johnson [:That's what I thought.
Norm Murdock [:I think I
Brett Johnson [:keep hearing that name. Well, because
Norm Murdock [:he's nationally known. Right. I'm
Brett Johnson [:not so sure that people know Gretchen Whitmer
Norm Murdock [:that much. They know Kamala, but she's not popular even with Democrats. Yeah. Michelle Obama is popular but she shows no interest. Mhmm. I don't think she wants that lifestyle.
Brett Johnson [:Sure. So Yeah. Exactly. No. That that's interesting. Yeah. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:We'll see. So, Yeah. Okay. But my understanding is under the rules of the Democratic Party rules, covering their convention and who they're voting for, he has to back he has to make that decision.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, they're not well, from what I and this is outside looking in.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:It's gotta be they gotta convince the people around him. Exactly. Convince him.
Norm Murdock [:Is that his
Brett Johnson [:outer his inner circle's gotta come
Norm Murdock [:And so far and and
Brett Johnson [:and they're gonna have they're gonna have to they're gonna have to get into Jill's head. They're gonna have to get into Hunter's head Yeah. And kinda go, dude, you know, your dad's your your husband's. That's it.
Norm Murdock [:We're not That's it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. Cool. Well, that's gonna do it for this week. Thanks to Harper CPA. Harper CPA Plus. I'll get that out. As a sponsor of, this and all Common Sense Ohio shows.
Brett Johnson [:If you like what we did today, if you didn't like what we did today, have any opinions on what we have, give us a shoot us an email. We'd love to hear back from you because, we get comments occasionally on social media, but we'd love to hear from you. We've got a email address in the show notes. Give us a give us give us a shout and we'll shout back out, because we know we're not a 100% correct, but we're not a 100% wrong either. I don't think, but that's gonna be it until, next week. We'll see you then.
