Listen in as I talk with Ali about how to create a company that when customers tell other people about it, they don’t say they “like” it. They say they “love” it.

I think one of the toughest things about designing your future upon graduation is actually taking the time to do it.

Especially after 3-4 years of no money coming in.

Especially when the people around you seem to have a plan.

Especially when you have had such focus on education and learning that you have lost touch with that person in the mirror.

Perhaps you have no idea what you want in your immediate future. Or even 5 year future.

But here’s the thing. That is exactly why you should take the time to explore. 

To ask yourself the tough questions. What DO you like? Those favorite patients you treated in student clinic? What made them so likeable? Are those traits or characteristics something you want to see more in your practice? 

What cases, treatments, modalities, and classes light you up from the inside? What do you find yourself talking about with regards to Chinese medicine?

If you do the work in the beginning, if you envision the feel, the experience and the soul of your practice, it will act as a magnet for those defined elements that bring you joy. You will be creating an experience for your patients that no other practitioner can. 

Today’s Guest

ALISON TAYLOR, CO-CEO OF JANE

Ali began her entrepreneurial journey by opening a multi-disciplinary healthcare clinic called Canopy in 2011.  Running and owning a small business taught Ali the foundations of business along with a deep empathy for the life of a small business owner.  In 2014, Ali and co-founder Trevor, launched a new business called Jane.  Jane, a software built originally for Canopy that offered Online Booking and Electronic Charting,  is now being used by over 100,000 practitioners around the world to run their practice.  Ali continues to lead this scaling tech company as Co-CEO of a team of 350 staff on our mission to “help the helpers”.

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• WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE MISSION, VISION, VALUES STATEMENT
• HOW ALI AND TREVOR STARTED THE COMPANY AND WHY.
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• HOW ALL OF THIS RELATES TO YOU AND YOUR PRACTICE!

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Um, so gosh, welcome to the show, Allie.

Thanks for coming on,

Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

and thank you. I, I wanted to say this too. Thank you so much for sponsoring my podcast, which truthfully allows me to do what I have a passion for, which is helping new practitioners, uh, get through those hurdles in those first couple years. So thank you so much for being a part of my journey. I am extremely grateful and, yeah, thank you so much.

Oh my goodness. That is so my pleasure. We're, I think our mission at Jane is helping the helpers. I don't know if you have heard that yet in your interactions with us, but it's, um, something that our team really rallies behind this idea that we're helping the helpers. And so when we started thinking about even like our marketing dollars at Jane, like where do you wanna spend them?

It just seemed so appropriate to try to help people within our community that. Sharing their knowledge and helping others. So it's just so aligned. It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite ways of of spending marketing dollars is just supporting helpers that are helping others. It's really wonderful. So you're doing a great job.

and thank you. And I do know this about you cuz I have, used that, in some of my marketing for you as well to get the. It's one of the things that rang true with me, cuz that's exactly what I'm trying to do, right? Like, I don't want to see people not get out there and practice because they're stumbling over the business aspects and these really challenging hurdles that you have to get through in the very beginning.

Very diverse range of practitioners.

And this was your clinic. You had all of those people in your clinic,

Yeah. Yeah.

and so what is your background really quick? Sorry, I don't mean to

No, that's fine. I, um, I actually have a degree in English literature and a minor in psychology, . So the reason how I ended up opening my own practice was that I was running the practice of my parent, like one of my, my father's practice, um, while I was at school, because he needed someone to take over for him.

I thought I was gonna be an English teacher, actually. And I was really enjoying running the practice. Uh, and I ha I just knew some physios that needed space and my midwives who had delivered my two babies, I was pregnant with my third at the time of opening the clinic, they also needed space. And I was like, well, no problem.

I'll just, I can just open something so we, we can all work. It's, it's not running a practice, um, with something that I knew how to do and I really enjoyed. And so I found space and it was eight treatment rooms and I knew I needed, um, to fill all eight in order to, you know, have a, a viable business plan for the practice.

So I just started interviewing people and looking for more different disciplines to join the practice. It was. Really, really a fun experience to learn about all the different disciplines and why people chose to do the type of profession that they did. Most people spoiler, um, they end up in a profession that really impacted them as a patient.

So, uh, most people just had a very, uh, an incredible experience with a certain type of discipline in their life, and then felt so inspired to go into that, that profession. And so it was so wonderful getting to hear all these people's stories and then bringing everyone together into this one practice and seeing how that, you know, could evolve.

But during that experience of opening that practice, there was no software. So that was my, that was sort of one of the big problems I was having. I was building this space, putting all these practitioners in, promising them this was gonna be an amazing facility and that there was gonna be, it was going to, you know, really, um, help build their practice.

And so I knew I needed online booking and then electronic charting, the electronic health records, everything is really designed only for a single discipline. And so I didn't have, there was nothing out there that was gonna work for all of my practitioners. Uh, and I knew I couldn't store paper files.

People underestimate, I think the cost of paper charts, like it is so expensive. So not just like the purchasing of all the photocopying and the shredding and the storage once you have of the old files and then having space in your practice to store them. It's so expensive. So I knew I couldn't, um, I couldn't afford that cause I needed all eight treatment rooms to be income generating space.

Uh, so I was complaining a lot. And Trevor, my co-founder at Jane, he was building my website. He had a, a branding and digital agency, and then he offered to build. Jane, which was not supposed to be Jane, and it was just supposed to be for my practice. And we used it there for a year and a half. So it was really just something that we were using, I was using for the practice, for Canopy. And uh, then other people started to see the online booking and they were asking me, Hey, like, what is this software? And then they were contacting, um, Trevor, my co-founder, cuz his website, his, uh, his agency was on the bottom of the website. And so we decided to partner, we built it out into a full software, including the whole billing component.

And you're international. So I just wanna clarify this because I'm in the US and you are in Canada,

right? .

Yeah. We are, I'm in Vancouver.

Canada, BC not, we have a lot of friends in Vancouver, Washington now that work with James, so we always have to clarify, we're Vancouver, Canada. But yeah, we're across all of North America and the uk, Australia, New Zealand, actually just a smattering in like 35 countries because the internet has no borders, which is quite nice.

Um, so that's been, it's been the most fun journey. I'm a lifelong learner as you are. We were talking about all your notes before this. Um, and so I've having a job that I can continue to learn and grow and, and experience new things every day is like the perfect, the perfect job for me. So it's been really fun.

I am so impressed because that seems like that happens so quickly, or did it just seem like it happens slowly? Because when you're in the middle of it, you're, and you're trying to launch a business and trying to do things, everything seems to go too, too slow. Especially with a software company, right?

Because if you have a bug or something that's not flowing, then people's brains explode and they get all crazy ,

Yeah, people are passionate, that's for sure.

how did it, I mean, how was that launch? How did that go for you?

It was not super quickly, like it wasn't a very fast, um, growth in the beginning. We really concentrated just on BC and we still don't have a sales team, so, I think the we're we're just growing because the same way you all grow, which is you all, you have your practice, you provide good service, and then people tell their friends and family.

Or when someone says, Hey, um, I'm really wondering about acupuncture. Someone will say, oh, I have an acupuncturist. They're amazing. You should go see them. That is the same way that Jane has grown. It's been this word of mouth growth, and so it did, like, I just remember coming home at the very beginning being like, oh, we had an acupuncturist sign up today from like Alberta, like.

So excited and that, you know, it's like when you get your first patients, you come home and you're like, oh, I, I saw I treated two people today. And then, you know, everything. You're so excited. And I still feel that way. Actually, we still every single sign up, um, everyone that joins the Jane community, I'm still so excited.

We have a channel in our, in our internal Slack messaging and celebrate everyone. But, um, the first 200 customers took many years and now it's, we're, you know, we're signing up over 50 practices a day. But the initial, it, it wasn't like an overnight. Um, and I love that because it really allowed us to perfect, uh, Jane and the experience we wanted people to have.

And it was a lovely slow growth that was very manageable actually. So it's been, yeah, it's been a really, a fun experience. But I think that's the same with opening a practice. It's like, it's a very, it's a bit of a slow process at the beginning. You don't open your doors and you are not full right away.

Like your, your business plan for your first year. Used to assume that there'll be a ramp up because you have to, you know, have to get brand recognition. And unless you're moving somewhere or transplanting a practitioner that already has a full caseload locally, you're gonna have a slower start, a slower ramp up.

And then even my business plan for Canopy would never have a hundred percent occupancy because you would just never expect a hundred percent occupancy in a clinic.

Oh, so your practice was called Canopy.

canopy, sorry. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, I'm just winding it down. Actually, the mid, the midwives are taking it over. I have a meeting with them on Friday.

I'm so excited they're gonna take it over and build out a real healthcare, like a women's health center, which is so wonderful. They're amazing. So

Wow. So that's the end of a chapter for

you. That was a, that was a what, 12 year

chapter?

yeah. 10, yeah, 10, 12. 10. 11. That's right. My son's 11 now 12. So yeah, it was a really wonderful part of my story and I really appreciated the kind of experience of owning a small business.

My parents both were small business owners. Um, our help, the helpers mission is obviously very near and dear to me. Having been a small business owner myself, but I only recently realized that I think a lot of the heart of it actually comes from watching my mom own a small business, who, as an owner operator, like most of, uh, probably your listeners are, and, and most of our customers, and watching her try to do, like, running her practice outside of her clinical hours where she didn't wanna do it.

It was, it took time away from us, her kids, cuz she was having to do bookkeeping and payroll, like all outside of her normal hours. And I was just running a business as my day job. So I did it. I mean, when you're opening up clinic, it's, I was cleaning the clinic at night and, you know, you do all of the things, but when it was up and running and fully going, it was my day job.

I was, I was man a business manager. I was looking at FraNChiS. anyway, but watching her experience, that's where my heart comes from. So when I talk to our team about like what we're doing or supporting these small businesses, nobody supports these small businesses and it's a part of their job, like this business side of it, that they just, it's a struggle.

Like it's not fun. People don't go into Occupy, become an acupuncturist in order to run a business. So I'm just so pleased that the work we do gets to support people in, in a place where they're not generally very supported as small businesses. There's not a lot of people championing them. So

Y I just, um, so I just recently, interviewed and was hired by a biomedicine western medical doctor part-time and their, their electronic health records system for Western medicine. is, is outrageous. Electronic health record system is, it's just a part of what we do now.

I mean, I really think that you should accept it too. You're right. Like you don't want paper files. The EHRs have so many things that are super helpful for the flow of your business. Um, but as a new practitioner coming on, it's, it is a challenge financially to start, but ultimately in the big picture of things, you're also totally affordable.

Especially once you find out that a western medicine electronic healthcare system costs you hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars per month and it's crazy. So thank you for that, um, for making it in a way that we can actually afford it as part of our practice, and it, it really does help. So I appreciate that.

Yeah, they, well, my, the price point was always designed to be that one, one visit should pay for running your practice for the whole month. And that just is very reasonable. Like it really is a reasonable amount to pay for a software. And then trying to, we don't have a free trial, um, like people do pay when they start using the system.

And, and the reason for that is just that, we wanted to make sure that people were committed to making the move over and getting set up and being, and having a successful experience. And I always like compare it to your experience as practitioners too. You know, if you give away free treatment, I don't know if you've ever treated anyone free or when you do it for like, um, workers' comp, but sometimes the people aren't paying out of pocket.

It's just fascinating how they devalue. They just don't value it in the same way. They're always the ones that no show, they're al, you know, they're, they just don't have that same investment in their experience.

Yeah.

yeah.

I totally agree.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, some of the things that. Resonate with me in the things that I've discussed on the podcast are, especially for new practitioners, and nobody loves to do this stuff either, but creating a, mission, a mission statement, and having core values in your company.

And, um, I, I mean, I really, when I am helping new practitioners, it's, it's such a hard sell to get people to sit down and really think about like, what's your mission statement? What do you wanna look? What does? Because it defines your clientele and it defines who's gonna come see you. And I try to get them to get really clear on this so that when they open the doors, it is, it is streamlined, it's branded.

People go tell other people and you attract exactly who you want to attract or very close. I've noticed that you have done extensive, mission statements and core values, and it's on your website and it is actually a joy to read. And it's another reason that I love having you as a sponsor because it's, it's just, it resonates with me too.

Right? So that's what it, that's exactly what happens. You attract, like, tell me all about Jane, please. Because I, it's, it's so unique. It's so refreshing.

It's funny that you say that because, the first time Trevor and I wrote the vision, mission, values, in an, like an accelerator. So there's these accelerator programs for tech companies and we didn't know anything about the tech world, obviously. We both came from small business and we were so, so busy at the beginning.

We were obviously doing everything. I was doing every demo and answering every support email. He was building the product and fixing everything. We were so busy, I can't even tell you at the beginning, um, how much work it was. And then we went to this accelerator and they're like, let's sit down and write our vision mission values.

We're like, we don't have time for this. Like, probably very similar experience to what you, um, what you get when you talk to people about vision, mission, values. And I was so grumpy about it, so grumpy. We wrote, we had to try so many times to try and figure out how to write them. And the funny thing is that it did become quite a central part of our story as we scaled.

And it has become something that's been very important to creating the work environment and the team that we really wanna be doing this with. And I would say if I'd got, if I could go back, I obviously didn't have vision, mission, values for my clinic at the time. This is something we only did at Jane.

But I think I, I would take the time to try and be a little bit more intentional. And I used to say that every clinic has a soul and it really does. Like if you walk into every clinic, they're all different. So my, my father had a sports physio clinic, very social, very social clinic, like an open area. It was just, I really enjoyed, um, working there for years.

People would come back and sit in the waiting room just to talk to us like they'd be done, their care is over, but they would just be like, oh, I was just in the neighborhood. And they would, people would be doing their rehab for the same injuries at the same time, and they would book in appointments at the same time so they could work out together.

Uh, and, you know, keep each other com, like it was a very social practice. And then Canopy was totally different. Eight closed treatment rooms, much more spa-like, much quieter, no open space, beautiful practice. And still just like every clinic is just slightly different. So you do have a clinic personality and a lot of it stems from you or who your practice, whoever you have in your practice. And so I think people just don't understand their uniqueness as part of it. Like it's really hard to, to verbalize your own uniqueness because it's just normal to you. And so sometimes it's a bit easier to ask other people, uh, you know, what do you think? If you had to describe me in three words or if you had to describe our, my practice, sometimes it's easier to get someone externally to give you the, that, that feedback.

But I will say that the, the one thing I've also learned about having a very vision mission, values based business is your mission and your values. They are not aspirational. They should reflect exactly how you behave. And so your your mission, who are you, what are you here for? What is your, what is your mission?

Who are you serving? And sometimes I think it that, especially in, um, healthcare practices when you're first starting out, that may not. super clear yet. Uh, if you're brand new to practice, you might not know yet what you really love to treat or what you find, um, most inspiring or, but you might, especially depending on your own personal story, a lot of people have a very specific, um, type of person or a type or treatment or a style that they're really interested in pursuing.

So your mission is that your values are how you make decisions. So values are really a lot about sometimes I've heard them, they're like, what would you fire over? So sometimes it's easier to think about them in the reverse, like, what would you just be not okay with somebody doing? But the way we wrote our values was we just looked at what we were doing, we're like, what's important to us in the way we work?

And we just wrote them down and then that became our values. And then how we've described those has evolved a little bit over time. We're now at, um, over 350 employees. And so obviously that looks a lot, lot different than when we were six sit, you know, sitting around a table. But the values have actually remained consistent over that whole, that whole period.

Um, through all these different stages of the business, and they should reflect what you really truly believe in, like what you would fire over. And then your vision can be something that changes over time and that can be a little more aspirational. Like what do you wanna create? And then as you get closer to that being a reality, you can shift it, you can change it.

Your vision can shift a little bit, especially if you're changing and growing over time.

So why don't you tell the audience what Jane's mission is?

So our mission has helped the helpers. So that became like very crystallized. And actually that came from our team. Because like I was saying, it's hard to, when you're close to something, you're like, what else would it be? Like, it never occurred to me that we needed to say those things in words because we were so passionate about it.

I was like, do I really? Do we really need to say what we're doing here? Like

we're helping the

this is, sometimes where I get stuck in, uh, That's, this is why you write, right? This is why you sit down and write about this and ask all the questions, or, you know, just formulate this because so much, especially as I get older, I'm like, well, duh. Like of course you mean you, you really need me to say that.

Uh,

know. Yes. Nothing is obvious. Nothing is obvious.

And helping the helpers, like I can't, it's fascinating how frequently we say those words as we're making decisions. So when we're trying to decide how to build the product, well, does this, is this helpful? Is this helpful? Are we actually helping? We don't always tell people you should sign up for Jane. So sometimes we'll be like, you know what? We're not gonna be the best fit for you. We don't, whatever.

You have this very specific need, we don't offer that. You should be using this other product. Because are we gonna be helpful to you? That is our goal. And so if we say, yeah, you should sign up and we're not gonna be helpful to you, then we're, we're not actually achieving our mission.

And so, especially early on, that can feel strange. Like people are just trying to get as many people in as they can. But the reality is the customer experience, which is something that, we could talk more about if you want, but the customer experience from the moment that they start with your practice through their entire treatment and then beyond that is what creates that referral network that creates the growth of your practice.

And so short term gain doesn't necessarily create that like long-term success if the person isn't gonna be having just a really wonderful experience through all of their interactions with you and your practice.

Well now that's kind of very similar to obviously if a new practitioner were to have like open their doors and take everybody as opposed to defining their dream patient even. And this is something too that I talk about with them often too. Like even if you don't know, because you're not gonna completely know in

the beginning,

But we can treat such a broad range of things and it's fine if you want to be a broad range, full spectrum practitioner claim that. Sometimes it's easier and it's also easier, I think with the algorithms, the way the computers work. Like just pick three things, right? Pick three things in the beginning and you can always change things, but that, but that's the same thing. So many people, new practitioners, oh my gosh, I just wanna grab everybody and bring them in. And I've done this 20 plus years ago, I started a massage practice and I, I opened the doors to everybody. And I, the first two years was just really me, like filtering out the people that absolutely were not working.

And then the other amount did exactly that, told everybody. So by year three or four, I, I, I didn't wanna go anywhere but to work. I loved my people. I loved what I did. It was so fun having these people, kind of like that practice that you were talking about, your parents

practice. Like just a place where people came and they were so happy to be, and that happens.

That happens when you define that and. , you also gain respect, right? When you say to that person, like, I don't think that I'm really for you, but I do know, um, some options. So try this out. You know, and then maybe someday I will be for you, but I right now, no, you're gonna benefit greater by going somewhere else.

You, you gain so much respect, professional respect for that.

I like how you're talking about how you verbalize that on your website and your bio and sort of thinking about like, okay, well what could the stages of that look like? Because when you do first open up, you, you kind of need to figure that out. So of course we had customers come from certain disciplines.

We learned it didn't work for them having Jane. And then the next time someone from that discipline came, we were like, Hey, you know what? We've learned that this doesn't work super well for you right now, and here's what you should do. But you do have to have that learning period of like, you're not gonna know necessarily.

And so I'm just trying to think about like at that first stage, when you first open your practice, if you are gonna say, okay, I kind of wanna be everything to everybody, what is a common, what is common to everybody that you, instead of having saying like, I. all of these people and all of these things.

What is common, uh, for all of them that you could kind of bring out into the, the way that you describe your practice. So even just talking about like a, a space of calm, like the space that you're having. Like I, we, like my practice is a space of peace and calm, calm, tranquility, um, like whatever it is that could be common across all of them.

And then pulling that into the way you describe it. And then as you start to like, uh, you can't specialize as a tricky word. Uh, I don't know if it's a tricky word for you, but a lot of people aren't allowed to use the word specialists.

So you have to say like, interest, special interest, or

there's some,

It is true. It is true dependent upon the state in the

us.

there's some language, some tricky language concerns around saying that you specialize in anything because there's education requirements or Right.

So saying just special interest or experience with or, and then pulling obviously from your life is the most valuable thing. So if you were a certain type of athlete, Saying in your bio, like, I was a cyclist, or I am a cyclist and I love treating cyclists, and this is like, is so helpful. What was your, um, what was your mission and vision like?

How did you articulate the kind of practice that you were building?

um, as a massage therapist or as an

acupuncturist, cuz I, I, reinvent. I think I've just done nothing but reinvent my entire life. Um, as a massage therapist, this is good conversation cuz originally, and I talk about this often too on the podcast, but originally I wanted to work with pregnant women and babies.

I wanted to do prenatal and, um, infant massage, but I have a bachelor's degree in science and business. And so I moved, so I moved to, um, Boise when I was like 26. And so I had my degree and then I got my massage license in then, um, I tried to network. I, I also did not have children, was not married, you know,

like, and I, I, I tried and tried and tried and knocked on doors, and I even went to the late Jay League meetings, right?

Like, it was so crazy how hard I was trying to break into this and get referrals. And I, it never happened. It did not happen. And I was like racing bikes at the time, kinda like you just said. Like I was, I was racing mountain bikes and I was learning how to, how to do this stuff. Like, I was kind of getting enmeshed in the cycling community at the time.

And I was like, what, what am I doing? Like, why don't I just, um, become a sports massage therapist? I like it. Uh, these are my people. And so I called in, in Boise. All of the bike shops at that time had to put on a race. So it's a big racing community. It's, it's big. So Kristen Armstrong lives here, who's our gold medalist, like three time gold medalist for cycling.

Yeah. So it's a big deal. So the cyc, so they all had to put on. Races. And so I called every single bike shop. I called the Y, the Y M C A, and I asked if I could, um, put up a tent at each of their races at, at the finish line so that I could do, uh, recovery massage. Uh, and then I also said, I'm going to charge money

exactly like your mentality.

Like I am not doing this for free. And I did that for an entire summer. I did the entire Mount mountain bike, Idaho mountain bike races all summer long. Like every single weekend was booked with a vendor tent and a trip to somewhere and my tent and my dog, and just working my butt off. But I was also booked within six months.

I mean, no, not six months, six weeks. I mean, it, it just, it

just cascaded

and I never looked back like it was

I like what you said there, two things. One is that your vision, mission, values, like they can evolve over time. Cuz I think the other, the locker that people have when they try to build out this kind of idea is that it's gonna be set in stone for forever and what if it, you know, I'm like, just try something

and if it doesn't fit, you can evolve it over time.

Uh, but it is language that is helpful when you're, especially with staffing. I think that's where staffing and then communicating, like you said, we put it on our website. , every single person that applies, they say they read them and one of the reasons they applied is cuz they wanna work somewhere like that.

And so your description of those types of things on job postings, I don't know if you've ever tried to hire someone off of job postings or if you've gone into a job board. Every post is exactly the same and they're, there's like nothing to differentiate them. It's like, there's just all these practices.

So something that helps you to stand out a little bit, um, is, is only helpful. And giving people sort of an idea of attracting the kind of person that you wanna work with. So your clinic does have a soul. Your practice will have a soul. You will have a certain style or a certain feel. And if you're hiring people, you want someone who matches that.

And so the best way to attract those people is to describe it. It's just describing it and putting it into words and putting it out there in, on your website and in the world. And that will attract the, the right patients to the right clientele.

yes,

that. It can evolve. Yeah, it can

it can evolve and they wanna relate, right? So it's, it's helpful if it's relatable. And that was my biggest lesson there. I just wasn't relatable to a bunch of. Pregnant women, they were like, well, you know, I mean, you can be, I think I, you can eventually get there, but I needed to eat I needed to build a business.

And I just got tired of it, of trying. And I was like, you know what, this, I'm just gonna turn it, turn this around and give this a shot. Um, and honestly too, it's fascinating because it, it took. For me, I'm a slow grower. My confidence level is not giant in the beginning. A slow gainer on like, moving forward and finding where I need to be.

And I know I'm not the only one, so I'm okay with this. But, uh, this happened with my acupuncture career too. Like, I moved to a place. I didn't, I ultimately didn't really feel like I fit there. I was in Bellingham, Washington, just south of you. And it, I, it's gorgeous, it's beautiful. But I just, um, and I went in with like this open attitude.

My original attitude was like, I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I wanna do. And I didn't define anything

and nobody came, and, um, you know, then when you throw in a pandemic, and anyway, I've moved back to Boise again and I have been here two months.

I've gotten a really cool job that I'm gonna start part-time and then I'm gonna open my own clinic part-time. And I, I have so much force in this hose behind me right now. Like my friends, my old clients know it are starting to learn. I'm back and I just need to find a space and it's just gonna go gangbusters.

And I know it, I can feel it. So it takes, it takes evolution, doesn't it?

totally. And I think the learning, I mean, I was mentioned before that I'm a learner. I think a lot of people are lifelong learners. But the thing about being a lifelong learner is that you have to believe that you don't know everything , because there's no learning unless you start from a place where you don't know the answer.

And so I think there's, there is power for sure, and just being like, it's okay that we don't know. We don't know all the answers to everything. And then, but the unknown is always quite scary. So taking the first step is. Is really like opening the practice. I'd never done that before. You just have to just keep trying the next thing and learning, learning how to do it, and then you just keep iterating and improving as you go.

So

Yeah. But you seem a little, you seem a little bit fearless. How did this happen? Like, I am hugely afraid of hiring anybody.

Um, yeah. Yeah. I, I can never, I cannot envision myself at all. That is the scariest thing for me. I can't even imagine having a clinic with multiple people that I have to, you know, multiple personalities, things going on.

Um,

Yeah. Managing humans is definitely, uh, especially in the healthcare space. I say this a lot to people who are managing healthcare practitioners because people can find it over frustrating or overwhelming, but healthcare practitioners, , they have to believe that they can help people. Like they have to believe that they are capable of healing people and of doing this work.

And that comes with a certain type of personality. And that type of personality is actually probably a little bit more difficult to manage on the scale of zero to 10. But it also is what makes them amazing at their jobs. And so I think a lot of managing humans is just recognizing, like the flip side. I think personality traits are all on a continuum.

And I think that personality traits are, are not inherently good or bad, they're just what they are. And they either exhibit in ways that are helpful or unhelpful true for ourselves too. So I always try to give myself grace in areas where I don't. The way that my personality exhibits, recognizing that it also helps me in other ways that I am the way I am.

And so that's the same with managing people. It's just recognizing the flip side of their, like, the part about them that is making this difficult also makes them a very successful practitioner. So just like trying to understand that humans are multifaceted in that way. But yeah, managing people, it's, you have to, you have to be a, a student of the human being.

I think so.

I think you have to, I mean, it may be similar to treating patients, right? We have to treat patients where they are. We have to see not only like how, especially with Chinese medicine can, what language do I do? I need to speak in order for them to understand how this, like a little bit, how this is gonna work.

You know, you can't, you can't just walk in and start talking about chi to people. Uh, that's not gonna work for everybody. And. Same flip side, you can't talk about the neurological aspects of Chinese medicine with western languaging to everybody either.

It sounds like you'd be a very good manager. You got it. You already got it figured

oh, I don't know. I think it would just drain my life worse right out. I don't think I'd be able to do it.

Yeah. You have to really want, I know it was, it. It's hard to give up, um, control of anything, but there's a lot, especially for practitioners now, there's so many VA options. Like, I don't know if you've ever looked into this virtual world, but it's pretty, seems I've never done it. But we work with a lot of, um, different organizations that are offering VA services now.

kind of magical to me.

Yeah, you can. The tech world is, and this is also another thing that I talk about to the new practitioners often, like if you don't have get, get a finger hold on the tech world a little bit and understand and, and, uh, find a little bit of comfort in that space. You're missing out on a lot. and you're making more work for yourself.

So I totally agree with you because there are like answering services, uh, you know. Yes, I totally agree with you.

Yeah, well, the online, even the online booking that, so obviously Jane was in practically invented so that I could have online booking at the clinic. And even in the f I only had one administra, like one front desk staff for eight treatment rooms, because so much of your admin work is just booking appointments.

And so online booking took. They talk about technology can be as like assisting humans doesn't have to replace humans, but it does just give the opportunity for the humans to do more of the human based work that machines can't do. Like the relationship building. And there's like just so many things that machines can't do that they're not very good at, but there's a lot that they are very good at.

So just choosing what parts you give to a machine and what parts a system, although we, Jane hopefully doesn't feel like a system , we're always trying to make Jane feel like a member of your practice.

One of the things that impresses me about Jane is that there is help. People do

listen. You do have multiple avenues for people to reach out and help resolve what's in front of you because that is one of the biggest things that was scary for me in the beginning. And I didn't start with Jane.

I started with another company and that was, man, anytime there was a tech issue or anything that I didn't understand, it was really hard because you have the patient standing right in front of you, you've got another patient

waiting.

embarrassing and

It. Oh yeah. Like, and I can't get a card to run, or I can't get an appointment to schedule or whatever.

And I'm just like, well, what do you do? You're, you've got everybody. You're handling everything. Um, but that is something that I like about Jane. Not only that, you have created a community, even with like your Facebook page where people help each other,

That was surprising. That was surprising. to me. I mean, this, we have, I think there's over eight, there's 8,000

people I think. Committee. And so that, that was, yeah, it was in, it was incredible to me. I'm so excited to see that that has evolved in that way. I think the first time that I really, um, understood just how wonderful this was is somebody asked for like a whiskey recommendation in there or something, is something totally not related to Jane.

And I was like, oh, now this feels like an actual community of people. You know, when you, they're in there asking for help around things that are RJ or aren't. Like, there's a lot of just clinic conversations in there that aren't necessarily Jane related. And I'm just like, that, like that helped the helpers mission.

I'm like, this is helping people, this is helping people that there's this area and then we, we do moderate it. So we're, we're very intentional about not allowing, like foul language or negative, like too much if you're, if something's overly negative, I'm like, nobody wants to read that. Nobody wants to listen to you.

There's enough places on the internet where you can go and complain about things, and so we're like, we try to keep it. Positive with moderation. It's an interesting line to walk, but I'm like, I don't want our community to be a place where people just go and complain about stuff. I'm like, we're improvement minded for sure, but you should be going in there and feeling good and getting help and, you know, it should be an enjoyable place to be.

That's part of, that's part of our mission and what we want Jane to be both like the software, our workplace, our community, like that's what the other thing we were talking about earlier is that customer experience and customer experience and patient in clinic, like patient experience for clinics, it comes with every single interaction they have with your, you and your brand.

Every single one. It's like your website, it's your voicemail, it's how your reminders are worded, it's your marketing content. It's every single one of those creates a personality. It creates how they know you as a, as a brand and as a company. And so that's, it's something that I think a lot about with Jane and I'm weirdly obsessed over every experience being hopefully a positive one.

But the same is true for clinic. Like every, every time that who you work at your front desk, how you have, even your website, I called our, my website. It's like the, it's the front, it's the waiting room on the internet. It's like it's people walking in the front door for the first time. It's your website if they're doing online research.

So how important that is, that that reflects everything about you in a very consistent way. You don't want that website to feel different than when they actually show up. So having your language very clear across that whole journey, you're advertising everything

So how did you, how did you put all of. together. What was the process? What is the process with creating a patient experience with creating a a, an extremely positive patient experience?

Teach me.

yeah. Patient experience. Well, I honestly, I'm, I'm, like I said, I'm an English major and I think language and communication is just so fundamental to the way that humans. interact. And so I've always been very, very specific about language. Um, re so in Jane you can customize almost all your, your language.

You can customize just a lot of things. And so part of us being multidisciplinary and serving many disciplines is that Jane has to be flexible, obviously, because every discipline operates in just a slightly different way. But what I also learned is within disciplines, everybody operates in a slightly different way.

So you're gonna put two acupuncturists next to each other and you're gonna have a completely different style of practice. And so if someone is working with a software that's just built for a single discipline, it's often not flexible enough to accommodate all the different styles of practice, even within a single discipline.

Um, and so we just did a customer. and they did a, it's a quote, it's a wonderful quote about language being what create it, it's tribal. It was what creates your tribe and this community and how she, they're from the, um, LGBTQ community. So she was, they just talking about the importance of language and communicating in a way that makes it clear that this is her, this is her tribe, this is who she's working with.

And so the ability to actually customize your language across that entire experience, I think is really important. So it should match the way that you speak as a practitioner should match the way that your website speaks, should match the way your reminders show up. Should match. It should match. It's creating this experience that it's like a Disneyland is, you know, some people talk about, they're like really amazing experiences that you can have.

That's the bar that I think everyone should be trying to get to. However, it's not an easy bar to get to and that's why not everyone is there. It does take a lot of thoughtfulness about where are your customers or your cus clients interacting with your brand. Like where are all of those? Touchpoints in tech, they call it the customer journey.

I have issues with breaking the customer journey down into like these really separate segments cuz I don't think that that's how humans actually interact. I think we are, we interact as a whole with an entire experience. Um, but it's really, yeah, just thinking about all those moments that your, your client might be interacting with you, the ones that you have control over and the ones that you don't, but some you do.

Your, Google reviews, your Facebook reviews, how will someone talk about you when someone says, Hey, do you like your acupuncturists? That's an interaction that you don't have any control over, but what, what can you build in to make that moment a good one?

Where did the name come from?

Jane. Yeah, well we, we were looking at a lot, so Obvi Jane didn't have a name for a long time. It was just my software that I used for my practice. And then when we started looking at licensing it to other people, it obviously needed an actual name. And we did many, many, many sessions of branding exercises trying to figure out what we wanted to call Jane.

But we did know, like a lot of the competitors in this space were very clinical sounding like clinic master, clinic server. Like how did these different names put together? Two clinical names shoved together. Um, and then we also aren't discipline specific. So we knew that we needed something that was gonna be appealing to a broader group.

And then we did know from the very beginning that we wanted Jane to feel like a member of your practice, like something that was actually gonna be there to, to feel like a, a member of your practice. And so we looked at personification, um, and different options around that. And then Jane was just easy to spell.

It was easy to say. It felt like, you know, that was gonna be helpful for people. Uh, unfortunately Jane, the URL was sold like a week before we asked the person about it. Some woman in the UK ended up selling it to a magazine company or something. So we ended up with Jane app.com, which now is jane.app. And then oddly, all of our customers started calling us Jane app, even though we never did.

But, but Jane. And then the other part was we really wanted people to be able to use, use the name in their practice. Like, so you wouldn't say like, look in the schedule, you'd say, oh look in Jane. Like, Jane has it, it's Jane. And uh, the number of times people have emailed and said, Jane's like our employee of the month.

And like, it just like, makes me so happy. I just love it really, it really connected with people and it's cr it's helped to create that sort of feel that Jane is a part of people's practice. Like this is part of, of your life. So, That's where

This isn't accidental marketing though. This is, this was, uh, this was.

was intentional.

A bit of genius too, because the other thing that I have seen, it's almost like Cjn Run is clever. Cjn Run is super clever. Um,

everyone knows those readers, but Yeah, I did.

it's very clever, but what I see more is because you humanized it.

Mm-hmm.

I see more is the word love.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's so funny. I did a talk recently in the tech world and I really talked about the power of making people feel something. And I think it's not always understood how important feelings are and how much of a, like they really are powerful for, for your business. And I think that is understood in healthcare though.

I think acupuncturists, I think you would all understand that how someone feels. Is a very important part, of the experience they have with you. But in the software world, that is not true. How someone feels about their experience with you is oddly not really considered all that much,

Mm-hmm.

which is so strange.

So we, like feelings is a huge part of, of how we look at our business. , I think it's like, I would really lo love our customers to feel the way that those patients did when they came back and sat in the waiting room. Uh, the clinic I was working at, like that is, that is good business right there. Like, and it's, it aligns so nicely with the way that I wanna treat people anyway, and like, this is how we wanna treat people and it's good business.

Like that's a magic combo. So I think for practitioners too, it's the same. Like how do you make people feel, uh, that's that Maya Angelou quote, like, you know, they don't remember,

I don't remember the

exact

you said, they don't remember what you did. They remember the way that you made them feel.

Yes. And that is not just whether your treatment is making them feel better, like objectively like, oh, I, I am healed from my pain, or whatever it is, how you made them feel overall. And the psychological aspect of healthcare, I think is completely underestimated. Like making people feel cared for does not happen in their life.

The fact that they walk in and they tell you about themselves and you listen, I think that is completely undervalued. But all of those things in combination become part of their, their experience. And even like if you have a front desk staff and they're not having to call constantly, but they can actually engage in a conversation with the person sitting in the waiting room, that's part of that whole experience, that person is going to refer, is gonna be far more likely to refer whether the treatment that they received was completely successful. in, in whatever their outcome was that they were hoping for. It's all, it all in combination is creating their, um, that feel and that creates referrals. And I, we didn't intend that to be Jane's story. It's just how we wanted to treat people. But it is what happened. It is how we ended up growing without a sales team.

And it, it's not weird in the healthcare space, like to grow that way, just provide a great experience and people will share. But it is weird in the tech space.

but it also, but it, it, it's kind of cool because you, you took the experience in your parents' waiting room and you recreated it in Jane.

trying. Yeah, I'm hoping, and you know what, it was really terrifying to me that I didn't know if we were gonna be able to scale that. Because obviously when I was doing all the calls, that was easy. It was easy for me to have ultimate control over. But now that we have a team of over a hundred people doing those calls, how do, how do you maintain that?

And so scaling that has been like just a fascinating. Experience. We're very intentional about it. I do a call with every support person and go over all the pillars of what the role looks like and what I'm, what we're hoping to achieve, and how that looks and

that goes back, back to your languaging again, right? Like you had to take everything that you've created and somehow put that into a job description and try to attract the flow of that kind of, uh, situation. Like pull that from a human being really like.

It's super, super fascinating. Yeah. And if you're so scaling, that's one thing, but even creating that within your own practice and figuring out how to do that even without other humans is also a really interesting exercise to just think about all of those, all of those places. And that's where, even circling back to that mission, vision, vision, values and using those as an anchor for what do I want to communicate, how do I want people to feel when they, when they work with me?

Um, and then does that language of even your bio or how you're describing your treatments, or does that all link back together, um, to this experience? Like, are they gonna be surprised when they walk in and it's nothing like what you described on in your bio.

Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I have done and that I have suggested that people do and that I have learned through tons of just, you know, lifelong learning, um, is. Is to find out who, who it is that you want to come in. Not only just know yourself, right, but d but determine like, what does it look like when people come in and your, your practice is working really, really well.

And then using that language back on your, like, what would they say to you? What would they say their problems are? What would they say, um, if you helped them? And then using that language and even putting that on your website. Hey, are you, are you this, this, this, and this? Are you tired of this? Are you looking to feel like this?

Are you, well, that's what we do, right? That's how, that's how we like to work.

I love your example of thinking about when it's going well, because I do find that sometimes writing to a generic.

It's hard.

Audience is really difficult, but if you have that one client, you're like, I want more like that person like that, they're a whatever. They're, they're a weekend warrior. They're a mound, razor, like all of these things.

But even you can actually write specifically to that one person, you, or you can say like, I recently had the pleasure of working with this person and this is what we did. And you know, you can even tell the exact story. You can ask permission, you

can, and then knowing that you've worked with some, that exact person will bring more of those people.

So sometimes writing to a generic audience is really hard, but thinking about one person that you really love, it's a lot easier to write to them or about them and then publish that.

Tell me about the exit. Tell me like the journey. The journey, right. Because there's a beginning, a middle, and an end to the journey. There's always gonna be an end. How do you, how do you allow people or whatever people decide they're done or they close their clinic or whatever. How important is the.

.

I'm not sure if you mean in exits for

in.

Jane, so, so. Yeah, because I quit. So we're on a software right now to doing this recording and there are a, a lot of, not a lot, but there are, you know, you take your top five and they're all very similar.

And I decided to change to this one from one that I really, I loved their customer service.

I loved their journey, I loved the people. I loved so many things, but ultimately they didn't have the last little tidbit of tech that I needed. And so I had to go. And the fascinating thing about that is I've, I've done that with two companies in this podcast, and one of them took me off of their email list and one of them did not.

Oh,

And I think that that company that took me off of their email list was, that was a big mistake.

Hmm.

because I love getting this other company's email. Like they have some really great, helpful podcasting information. Um, when they have what I need again, I might go back. So there's this, that's why I'm saying like there's an exit and there's an exit with our patients, and I'm sure there's exits with Jane too.

there's ends. Yeah. I think it's funny, even going back to that conversation we were having about the customer journey, like there's people that haven't started at your practice yet. There's people that are part of your practice and there's people that maybe are no longer with your practice.

But I always think that these, these are not finite, like moments in time, they can always circle back. and I think customer is a difficult term because I'm like, really, anyone with a small business in healthcare, we should treat, I would like to treat as if they're our customer.

No matter whether they're paying, currently paying for our product or not, they are still part of this group of people that we care about. And so when people do, we, we've had people leave and then come back. So same as you. It's like if, if we ended up like we didn't have a feature they needed, but then as we, if we have went, if we add it, they may return to us.

So you wanna make sure that you're always ending well. So ending well. And starting. Well, I think are both equally important. And this was true when I was working in practice, it was always so fascinating to me when people would, like, practitioners would leave the practice and they would just have the worst ending.

Like it would just be people are, there's feelings that are hurt, like going back to feelings we're humans, people feel betrayed, they feel hurt and that someone will leave and they, they wouldn't tell anyone where they were going. Like the person would leave and then it would be like, you're dead to me. And I'm like, it's, it's patient. It's, it's client choice. Like if a client has a relationship with a practitioner, they're gonna find them. So you may as well, you know, have a positive experience there. And I've had practitioners return. So I think it's really just important that ending, ending well, like people should understand the value of that, but also it's just like, just treat people the way you wanna be treated.

Like

Once

I dunno why that's so complicated. But yeah, we've had people, we've had people leave in return. Um, and Sam, we leave people on the newsletter and we hope that it, you know, eventually will become, , it's, it's, it's the bar is ours to meet, to be good enough for people to, um, to choose us. Like that's our responsibility as a, as a software provider.

And I would say as a healthcare provider, it's also helpful, I think, to refer to other people if you don't think you're gonna be able to solve their problem or meet their need. And we didn't talk about this either, but I do really think there's huge benefit in referring to other people who are more interested or specialized in a certain type of treatment.

They're gonna do the reverse to you. So some people also are really, uh, competitive with local providers, especially of the same discipline. But honestly, the more providers there are of your discipline, the more normalized your discipline becomes. The more people just think, Hey, maybe I should go try that.

And so I think there's just. There's this false divide in thinking that people who are doing the same thing as you are stealing from you or could steal from you. And I think there's a lot of, um, opportunity in creating relationships there within your community.

I'm a huge proponent of this. Uh, rising tides raise all ships. Is that?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

I agree with that.

Like, that's very important. That's, that's the messaging that I'm getting in my podcast interviews with people who've been in it for 20 years. It's a very important aspect. Um, I have another question before we probably should start winding down, but I have another question before we go.

I, I think this mentality of not having a sales team, that doesn't mean, you do have a sales team, is just not defined as such. You are, you are helping the helpers in, in helping the helpers. Like in helping me. Uh, you're empowering me to empower people to make the choice to, to choose. Jane. It you are, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

I think you probably can say it way better than I can, so I'm

Yeah. Yeah. It's, you're right, there is a mentality to, to not having, so we don't have any outbound sales, which is typically what, uh, sales team would be doing, like dialing out, trying to com, you know, get people to do, to do demos. We have a support team that does inbound demos, and so obviously at the beginning that was me.

So you need someone to be showing the product. So I would go to every, um, conference and stand at the booth and do the demos and then inbound. But we still, for every person that does a demo, three people sign up. So there's still two people who never do a demo, never talk to our team, and just sign up autonomously

because they've. they don't need to do it. So, um, yeah. And then like I was talking about before, splitting up the customer journey, I've actually experienced this with a clinic recently, which was fascinating. I had a very sales experience calling a clinic, trying to figure out if I wanted to be a patient. It upset. I was like, no.

Like, this is terrible. Like, no, I don't, no, especially in like the healthcare space. Oh, there's packages and I don't know, it just felt so terrible. I was like, I, I'm like, I'm out. No. And so it was really important to me that the mentality was not a sales mentality, but a support mentality. And so we didn't divide that journey up.

So even still at our size now, we have people that help teach people how to do demos, but the people doing the demos are still the same people that are gonna support you after you sign up. And the other weird divide that happens is that people sell and they're paid to sell, but then they don't do the support.

And so they're. , they'll tell you anything to get you to sign up. And then the poor support team has to be the ones that are supporting these people when all of a sudden it's like, no, this offer can't do that. And so it was important to me that we had that consistency of experience. So you were talking to the same people doing demos that you are after you've signed up that is the same group of humans.

They're not separated into these different sections of like the journey. So it's consistent. So you feel like you're having like the same experience across the entire time that you're working with us. So yeah, the mentality of sales is fascinating, is the sales isn't really a mentality that happens that much in healthcare though, do you think?

Do you see it?

Well, acupuncturist, Chinese medicine practitioners in the United States often are not covered by insurance, so therefore they actually have to build their own and, and, or getting a job in a hospital or something like that. Getting a job is also, um, it's happening more and more, but it's, it's not prolific.

So we do have to start our own practices and we do have to

is

how to, market, how

marketing. Yeah. And I would say marketing and sales are two different

things.

So Yeah. And I totally, and I would say that for sure that's like marketing, uh, a hundred percent is obviously required. And I, I think I'm just like, I'm probably always selling, like anytime I talk to him, like I'm like, lemme tell you about Jane.

Like I'm probably always selling because I actually really do believe Jane is an amazing tool for a practice. And so I'm hopefully, uh, that's true. So when it's actually helpful for people to use Jane. But yeah, marketing for sure, and I think practice is, is we could talk for a long time about how hard it is to, to learn how to market a healthcare practice and Yeah.

It's, it's incredibly challenging for people to shift the way that they think esp Cuz practitioners typically are not

no.

no. And that's the, that's the, pushback, right? That's the pushback. But you can, but you can, and we can like, maybe, maybe another time we can actually dive into, into marketing and marketing in a practice, cuz obviously you've done that. a lot. Um, but I, I choose to think about it. I, I, I'm a networker and the way that, and the way that I go into that, my mentality behind that, I don't, I'm not into sales either, but I, but I am a networker and I approach every single interaction with every single human being.

This is always playing in the background. Like, what do I have? What do I know? How can I help? Uh, who do I know that can help them? And it doesn't even matter what they need help with. They need a fence. I know people who can help you build a fence.

You're a connector.

totally. Like, let me tell you who, who does that, that has, and I'm a natural connector cuz I'm always thinking, I'm like, oh, I know, I know.

And it's because I did massage forever. I knew everybody, like I knew so many people and

I was always attaching people, small business people, trying to help them. And in doing that, we go back to like, in doing that, I was their number one, massage therapist. I was their number one person in it. So it's very similar like, , not forced networking, but traveling through life, meeting people and thinking about like what are, what are their needs, you know?

Do you feel like healthcare practitioners, like as soon as you say what you do in any group setting, a hundred people wanna talk to you about whatever is going on in their life? Like I just feel like it is, there is like a, there is a curiosity and a natural. As soon as you say your role in a group, it feels like there's gonna be people

Yeah. It's true. It's true. And, and then I've had discuss discussions about this with like my extroverted practitioners that I graduated with, and so even talking to like my friend Travis, who's super extroverted, never stops talking like I said, what's your best place to get patients?

Like how do you, how are you marketing? And he said, backyard barbecue.

I like that you were just talking about there, recognizing something about yourself that feels easy and then leaning into it. I think too frequently people listened to listen to all this advice and feel very overwhelmed like, I need to start doing all of these things.

But there's some gonna be something that feels like a more natural fit for you. There's lots of ways that you can market or build a practice, and so I think a little bit of self-awareness too is important for recognizing what feels easy to you. I call these superpowers at work. Again, it's something that's hard to see about yourself, cuz usually it feels easy to you and hard for other people.

So I always say to people, what do people say to you? What are they so amazed that you can do, like, they're just like, well, that was so easy for you. And you're just like, yeah, of course it was easy for me. It's not easy for everybody. That's the secret. And if you can kind of figure out what those things are and then lean into them, those are your superpowers.

They're freebies. Like you don't have to work that hard to do them, but they usually do provide some sort of freebie that you can kind of harness in some capacity. So obviously writing, uh, is something that I find easy. And so writing and communicating through written word is something that like I should, I can, should be doing more of.

It's like an easy thing for me. I could just be communicating that way, but for other people might be different. And like creating little videos that you post on Instagram, your Instagram feed's amazing.

So

gosh. Thank you. Wow.

yeah. Um, just to figuring out like where those, where those freebies are for you. What do you enjoy doing?

And then using those as much as you can to your advantage. So ask people, go ask people,

what do you think? I'm really like what do you. What am I really good at that I don't even understand? Because we never ever value our own, our own strengths. We just think they're easy, and it's not the, it's not easy for everybody,

Thank you so much for, for acknowledging the Instagram account. While you were talking, I was like, um, social media feels extremely creative,

If you're a creator, if you're a creative person and you like art and you like, like getting on Canva and designing all of this, social media is incredible and you like language, like creating content can feel very fulfilling once you get your groove and get your time slots down a little bit.

Once you learn it, it can be fun. And so that's been sort of my creative outlet.

That's not easy for everyone. I feel like you should, you should do templates or something

that you can, you can sell to your

You know how that this is, there's so many things and I did actually look at, uh, creating Sellable, you know, it's templates that I could

sell.

I did.

you're

like, I don't need to. I

don't need, I'm telling you that. I bet you everyone listening right now is just like so scared of Instagram. I think everyone's just like, I would've no idea where to start. I don't know what I would post. Like I bet fact that you just are like, oh, it's so easy. I bet everyone's just like, shut up, Stacy.

It's not easy.

Tells Stacy that it's not easy for you and

that this is her superpower and she doesn't know

No, I just took a lot of, I spent a lot of time learning how to do it. I spent a ton of time. Same thing with the podcast. It's like, you know, I didn't go get a doctorate degree. I learned how to podcast. It takes a

lot of energy and a lot of time. I just as a side note, um, I'll put it in the show notes, but I did do an episode on content marketing and social

media.

So ,so you guys check this, check the show notes if you, if you want all of my four 11 on how to do social media. Um, okay, so, Is there anything else? Any last words of advice before we close this down that you have for new practitioners?

Um, new practitioners. Yeah. I just think that opening our practice. Like when you're first getting started can feel like a lot. It, it just is a lot. You're doing a lot. And so be, be patient with yourself, like it is a lot there. You have to spend more than you make at the beginning, and that's very scary.

It's a scary place to be in. Um, but it, it, it is worth it. It is worth it. Clinics are really magical places and I think really digging deep into that, like the soul of your practice and, and take pride in what you're doing, you're doing something awesome. And, um, I hope that you can be proud of being a clinic owner, even with all of the, the difficulties that come with it.

It really is something that I think, um, you should be proud of. So, congrat. is what I wanna say. Congratulations. I'm so excited for you and I wanna come and visit your practice and feel the feels and, uh, let us know if we can help you in any way. Oh, and if you're a brand new practice just starting out, we do have a discount.

Um, we don't do discounted services because normally we, what we charge is, you know, a very fair price for Jane. But when you are first starting out, you do have to spend more than you make, and it is difficult. And I, having done that, I know that. And so, um, for brand new practices, we do have a three month discount.

So let us know if you're opening a brand new practice and you wanna work with Jane and we can help you out as you're getting started.

and you guys can use the code AcuSprout one mo for that. And that's in the show notes as well. . And again, thank you so much for coming on.

It's. Actually a really, really fun conversation, uh, about business to have with you. And we may have to have you on again and talk about marketing 📍 and networking because I'm completely intrigued to hear what you have to say as well. So thanks again for being a sponsor, and thanks for being here today, Allie.

Yeah. Thank you for having me and, um, appreciate the, the time to speak with you and your, and your audience. I'm so, so excited, such a huge fan of all the work that you're doing and your audience, your listeners. So thanks for having me.

Yep. Till next time.